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@bobateo said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3408369#Comment_3408369
Not when she can force a surv off for 10 seconds (Drone Active timer before it becomes hackable). Another 3+ seconds to hack the drone. That is now 13+ seconds of Overbrine and SM is probably headed right back to the gen upon seeing the drone hacked. She kicks it again, drops another drone and now...
Drone can't be hacked and while you can go for the gen tap to stop regression, once again, she knows immediately and can (and most often will return). I could run through more scenarios, but they all end the same way - the regression is not negligible when you have a killer that can force survivors off gens for 13+ seconds with relative ease.
The problem isn't overcharge. The problem isn't COB. The problem is a Killer power that gives higher than normal value with these two perks.
13 seconds brings Overcharge to roughly 100%, which is normal gen regression speed. These perks give almost no value now. I've already tested 3 gen strats on this patch. It's impossible to hold the 3 gen for long if all 4 survivors are alive since regression perks aren't strong enough.
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@bobateo said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3407928#Comment_3407928
Yes, it can be reapplied in a short window of time. It has no cool down, iirc. Just because the generator isn't at max regression for the full time doesn't mean that no regression happens.
You realize Overcharge literally makes the gen regress at slower speed when it starts? At start, it regresses at 85% speed. Combined with CoB, the gen will be regressing at 105% speed, so only 5% faster, which is completely negligible.
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@bobateo said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3407753#Comment_3407753
If it can only happen once, sure, but when it can be consistently be reapplied in a short window of time and with the ability to deny progression consistently, then it's significant.
It can't be applied in a short window of time because Overcharge takes 30 seconds to build up. 55% extra regression is nothing. It would stil take 232 seconds to fully regress a gen.
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@bobateo said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3406875#Comment_3406875
Even with the nerf, SM gets more value out of the combo because of the delay her drones in active mode can cause in stopping gen regression. If a surv enters the drone area to stop the regression, SM knows and can come back. If they don't, then they lose more progress. It's essentially a lose/lose if SM prioritizes gen regression over chase. She can still add a third regression perk into the mix and while she might not get as much value out of them, getting any value compounds what she can already get from COB and Overcharge.
Add in extended heals from Sloppy and a lot of gen progress can be lost repeatedly.
Overcharge and CoB add 55% extra regression speed in the best case scenario where Overcharge reaches 30 seconds. That's barely anything.
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Good. "Removing" Dead Hard is basically the best change they ever made. The game is so much better now. I didn't run Overcharge, CoB, and Pain Res before the update, so this patch is all positives for me.
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It's mix of Lithe and Sprint Burst and the occassional Balanced Landing. Seems to be a good mix of exhaustion perks. Definitely isn't just SB.
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How do you still get 3 gen when CoB and Overcharge are nerfed?
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I have the same issue.
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@[Deleted User] said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3402920#Comment_3402920
How can you be "standing close to the hook" and investigating other gens/ "chasing other Survivors" if those Survivors don't come to you?
This just doesn't hold up to examination.
And the reason I know what your describing doesn't work is I main Killer, by far. The only time I play Survivor is to meet Daily's or Tome's.
I know what the good Survivors do to make my life hell, and I've been playing a long time (my account here is 5 years, and I didn't even come to this website until I was ready to quit). If what you are describing is working for you, it's because you aren't ranking up (probably from camping).
Asides from Plague with Black Incense, I said in my posts that I don't camp or stand near hook for my strategy. I patrol the nearby area far from the hook so survivors come to unhook.
Matchmaking is based on mmr not ranks.
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@[Deleted User] said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3402870#Comment_3402870
No. Good Survivors do not heal at the hook just because they think you are chasing someone else. That's stupid.
Good Survivors go to finished gens and/or used hooks. This buys more time for those working gens, and/or puts the Killer in a position of trying to carry to a further hook (which both buys MORE time and increases the chance of an escape).
You also haven't described "camping", since you are out checking gens and chasing other Survivors.
The Wraith isn't that fast. He doesn't magically let you find whoever was unhooked.
To be honest; you sound like a Survivor main who wants Killer nerfed. Or a terrible Survivor player and low ranked Killer. The strategies your describing just don't work at mid-to-high levels of play.
If you immediately return to the hook the moment they are unhooked as Wraith, you will find the unhooked survivor 99% of the time. Have you actually tested it or are just assuming what you say? Test it and you will see.
Camping for me is standing very close to the hook and not really doing much else. I only do this when the survivors are wasting their time hovering around the hook or the survivor is less than 15 seconds away from reaching next hook stage.
I've played like 2 survivors matches my entire life. Look at my post history, it's all killer main stuff. I 3-4k in most of my matches, so fairly sure my mmr is high.
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@[Deleted User] said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3402844#Comment_3402844
It appears you and I have VERY different definitions of "Camping" with respect to DBD.
If you are patrolling gens after a hook, that isn't "Camping" by any definition I can agree with.
Also, chasing other Survivors is not "Tunneling".
Maybe you can define those terms for us so we can understand what you are trying to state? Right now, it looks like you aren't saying anything at all.
P.S. As to your Wraith comment ... who sits at the hook to heal on the spot? New players? Veterans immediately go toward completed gens, because it's the last place the Killer is likely to show.
Tunnelling is trying to quickly kill 1 survivor by concentrating hooks on them. In most of my games, my first 3 hooks are on the same survivor. It's tunnelling because I instantly return to the hook the moment they are unhooked. I can be mid chase with someone or have downed survivor but I'll ignore them and immediately return to hook for tunnelling.
They heal at hook because they think I'm chasing another survivor, which they can see with the chase icon. They can't assume that I'm no longer chasing the survivor if the chase icon disappears since Wraith can go invisible during chase, which removes the chase icon. Even if they leave hook, I usually find them easily due to the speed and invisibility of Wraith.
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@Pulsar said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3402803#Comment_3402803
It's how you beat average teams who play for fun.
As soon as you find a decent team, you'll be taught how poor of a decision hard tunneling is.
It exposes areas of weakness. Try to learn from it when it happens
I argue that I would perform worse against these good teams if I didn't tunnel. With this strat, I can probably get at least a 2k against them, but if I didn't it would probably be a 0-1k.
@[Deleted User] said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3402816#Comment_3402816
That's not true at all.
They are keeping you busy while the rest of the Survivors finish gens.
Smart Survivors always assume you are camping, until you prove otherwise. I stay at the gen until I see or hear you coming.
Deadlock won't help a camper. I'll move to the next gen and come right back to the original when I'm finished. It will still be fine, since you aren't coming to kick it (and leaving your hooked uncamped).
"Smart Survivors always assume you are camping, until you prove otherwise. I stay at the gen until I see or hear you coming."
Then my strategy will work on you. I tested this strategy on Wraith and Plague the most. On Wraith, I don't need to stay near the hook at all. I chase another survivor normally and the moment an unhook occurs, I return to the hook. The cloaked speed allows me to get there extremely fast. The survivors will usually still be healing when I arrive. They have no idea that I am tunnelling since I am chasing another survivor while they are unhooking.
On Plague, I run Black Incense, so I don't need to stay near the hook. I chase another survivor normally and when they unhook, I use Black Incense to find the unhooked survivor and tunnel. I also have vision on every survivor with Black Incense so I know whether survivors are working on gens or going for the unhook, which allows me to change my strategy to camping or chasing depending on what the survivors are doing.
I've also been testing the strategy on Clown recently and it seems to be effective but more testing is needed.
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@[Deleted User] said:
Sounds like your facing crap Survivors.
Smart play is for the other's to work separate gens while letting the 4th hang until a later state.
By the time they need to come get her off the hook, 2-3 gens will be finished and 1-2 more on their way. If you attempt to do this a 2nd time, the gates will either be open, or extremely close, by the time that 2nd player needs rescuing.
That strategy is a 1-2k, max, against Survivors who have any clue what they are doing.
Not really, if they leave a survivor on the hook, it's basically like a survivor is "dead" since they are doing absolutely nothing. Survivors will only use this strategy if they know I am tunnelling, which they don't since I go far from the hook. I also use Deadlock to heavily encourage survivors to come rescue due to their gen being blocked.
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@Ayodam said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3402803#Comment_3402803
Did YouTube teach you that? Because it definitely isn’t true IRL.
No? It's based on my experience of hard tunnelling every match for the past 100 matches or so. Though, I should mention that I play killers where tunnelling is very effective, such as Plague and Wraith.
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@Pulsar said:
No. Why would I?
Unless it's a team I know, and I know that they're gonna be going hard, I have zero reason to tryhard and ruin somebody's game.
I think, ya know, if there's two gens left and someone's on death hook, it's completely understandable to tunnel. You want to win, and that's the best way to do so, the other players have gotten to play as well.
I think hard tunneling someone off of first hook is really a detriment to you as a Killer. You'll never get better and eventually, you'll run into people who can deal with it and that will be a truly miserable experience.
"I think hard tunneling someone off of first hook is really a detriment to you as a Killer. You'll never get better and eventually, you'll run into people who can deal with it and that will be a truly miserable experience."
You got it wrong. Tunnelling is how you beat strong teams.
@Nazzzak said:
I don't, and ultimately you do you. But be aware that easy tactics to gain kills can be detrimental. The game is designed to give you more challenging opponents as you progress. More kills means MMR increases, and you may find that you're suddenly getting games where the first person you try to tunnel will loop you for multiple gens and suddenly that strategy may not seem so strong afterall. It may pay off now, but just something to be aware of!
Not really. Once you hit the mmr soft cap, you don't get harder opponenets anymore. They give you basically anyone.
What if I am a good looper that also tunnels?
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@CaulDrohn said:
Do you even pay attention WHY certain perks get nerfed?
CoB & Overcharge got hammered bc they made 3-genning an unbearable experience. Highly problematic, so changing that was necessary. Where the perks hit to hard? Most likely yeah, but the move to nerf them was justified.
PR change is hardly a nerf. It gives you more regression at the start of the game now, where killer is at it's weakest. It's more healthy now since it incentives hooking different ppl. And it cannot be "cheesed" so easily anymore by camping a scourge hooked survivor and forcing trades. Overall a healthy change, with more or less maintaining its strength. You are only better with old PR from the seventh hook onward. And I would argue you won't need that to win the game. Or not every hook before gave you any value.
Eruption was very miserable to play against with that long incapacitated effect. SWF could play around it (by calling out when to go down), but solo Q couldn't. Incap effect makes sense for having victor attached, where it's on you to remove the effect or not. But having it proc on you seemingly random without anything you can do excpect doing literally nothing, that needed to be changed.
I could go on. What all perk that were nerfed have in common: They were in some way or another problematic or unhealthy for the game, so they got changed.
And so we come to DL: What aspect of that perk is unhealthy or problematic? I can't see anything. It's very limited (only 4 activations), can be countered /dealed with, esp. with new activity hud. There's NO NEED to nerf it. So I don't expect it being changed. Yes, bhvr seems to change perks when they are picked often, but imo that was NEVER the ONLY reason for a perk change.
You didn't explain why Pain Res got nerfed. It's a big nerf since you can't tunnel with it anymore and that's a massive nerf since tunneling is by far the strongest strategy.
"You are only better with old PR from the seventh hook onward."
That assumes that you hooked a unique survivor every time in the first 4 hooks, which is extremely unlikely.
Only Overcharge, CoB, and Eruption was warranted in their nerfs due to the perma 3 gen. Other slowdown perks mainly got nerfed due to high usage:
Corrupt Intervention: literally no one knew why it got nerfed. It's similar enough to Deadlock that Deadlock could get nerfed for the same reason.
Hex Ruin: it was only a problem with Tinkerer due to the perma Tinkerer but Tinkerer got nerfed, which fixed the problem, and they still nerfed Ruin. Ruin was fine since you couldn't stack it with other gen kicking perks.
Pop Goes the Weasel: it was a B tier perk at the time and it got nerfed multiple times purely since it was popular
Thana: Thana was a bad perk that almost no one used before it was buffed and got very popular on Plague and Legion, people complained, and instead of reverting the buff, they nerfed it into oblivion.
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@Mooks said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3400601#Comment_3400601
No you haven’t? There are several perks that may help survivors heal up from the dying state. Also survs can crawl out of open gates or the last one can crawl out of the hatch.
That's why my suggestion is to only have it activate after 1 minute of all survivors being down. That's enough time for them to find hatch and use their perks. After the 1 minute mark, 99% of the time, it's just them hiding in a corner while I look for them.
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It be based on win rate not kill rate.
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@Meathammer said:
Your mmr must be really low
Your mmr increases if you have a high kill rate smh
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@Nazzzak said:
Yup. Not for me though, I don't care about my own. I just want to see all the people who claim they're high MMR and getting sweaty comp squads every game get a bit of a reality check.
Yep. The main reason why I want it and I'm a killer main.
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As a killer main, I would say significantly less compared to last year. Last year, it was very common for people to give up early into the match but now most of the survivors play it out.
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Yes but I don't want them to show the exact number since that will encourage people to sweat to get the highest mmr possible. I want them to show a rough text ranking like low, medium, high, and very high skill level so we know the skill level of players when they make bogus posts on this forum. Mmr is mostly just a way of identifying bad players. "High mmr" doesn't mean much since there's a soft mmr cap. When you hit it, being higher mmr doesn't mean much since it won't give you harder opponents.
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@Mooks said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3400237#Comment_3400237
Or maybe use Deerstalker if you use this strategy a lot?
No? This thread is asking for quality of life suggestions. My suggestion is purely quality of life since I've already won if I have all survivors slugged. The only difference is that I don't have to waste 4 minutes looking for them.
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Auto Deerstalker when all survivors are slugged for longer than 1 minute so we don't have to waste 4 minutes looking for the survivor.
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Because the only viable way to play her is slug condemn and the matches are 20-30 minutes grind fests.
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I've played Hag a lot and the trap changes are a significant buff. Overall, it's significantly easier for survivors to remove traps with flashlights. You have to remember that survivors must crouch to reach the trap without activating it to remove it. Removing the trap will literally take 8-10 seconds now. Survivors also are no longer able to remove traps with flashlights during loops, which is a massive buff.
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It depends on what killers you play and addons you use.
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I would rework her to allow her better access to Corrupt Purge. I find it boring to play as an M1 killer all game if survivors decide not to Cleanse.
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Game Afoot
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Every survivor starts on the hook /s
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@Emoba said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3396377#Comment_3396377
No killer needs more than a few hours to get decent at besides maybe Billy. Sorry but this sounds like a skill issue on your part.
I mean, asides from curving on Billy, the Chainsaw for Billy and Bubba are fairly similar.
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@Nirgendwohin said:
I'm completely with you! Let's remove the tantrum by removing his chainsaw entirely.
Yep give him this instead
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@Blueberry said:
I wouldn’t say it’s unnecessary, but maybe just a bit excessive and could have the time shortened some.
Shorterning Tantrum doesn't resolve the issue since you still need to learn every hitbox and tile to avoid hitting into them. Also with a short tantrum, you still need to wait 12 seconds to get 3 Chainsaw charges back.
@tippy2k2 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3396379#Comment_3396379
This
The Tantrum is needed to balance him out a bit (otherwise you'd never be able to even try to outloop him during a sweep as the Bubba player can just hug the wall just like the survivor) but it's incredibly frustrating at times what DBD determines is something you tantrum against.
But most killers have to deal with the odd collision of something you shouldn't be colliding against so whatcha gonna do?
Good Bubba mains already run loops extremely tight. See this example https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MgIEqcyK7Cs and his vods. It's mostly random hitboxes and occassional misplays that causes Tantrum.
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@GentlemanFridge said:
God forbid a character that already gets great value from a simple mechanic is somewhat challenging to use.
It is challenging to use but I think that a killer shouldn't need hundreds of hours to get decent at, especially if the killer has the most punishing mechanic in the game.
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I don't know why you would feel anxiety when there's nothing on the line.
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OTR is better when the killer tunnels. DH is better when the killer doesn't tunnel. The main difference is that DH doesn't end in 80 seconds and if doing a conspicuous action.
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As a killer main, I don't play her because the 3 gen stall is the most boring thing ever.
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Least common for me as killer: Tapp, Felix, and Yoichi
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When Dead Hard gets nerfed, so maybe next patch.
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@Volcz said:
I think some people underestimate how strong 25% is and how much value that brings in real-time to the match. I think it will still be very strong/popular.
I mean, pre-nerf Pop Goes the Weasel was still a B tier perk that was overshadowed by Hex Ruin
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They need to add an incentive for not tunnelling and camping. End of story. They have tried adding many disincentives to camping and tunnelling in the past, e.g. Borrowed Time, Decisive Strike, and Reassurance but killers still did it. The main issue with using disincentives is accidental tunnelling and camping or situations where the survivor runs into the killer to abuse the anti-tunnel mechanic, e.g. sitting on gens and ignoring killers with old DS.
I think they should add a base kit mechanic that rewards chasing different survivors, like Grim Embrace and new Pain Res. The killer should get stronger or receive a reward every time they hook a new different survivor. If they hook all 4 survivors, they get a reward too.
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Been running deadlock on most of my low-mid tier killers. It's much better than Pain Res and DMS since it's harder to get hooks on low-mid tier killers. Nerfing Deadlock would definitely be a hard hit.
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@Deathstroke said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3392219#Comment_3392219
You complain because you can't freely tunnel now it work exactly how supposed to. You can even use all otr, ds and dh combo to make killer potentially lose game with tunneling.
You know, you can still run that combo on the current patch?
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When will the patch be released?
Also, somewhat disappointed that Dead Hard will still be a meta perk.
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Killer main here, this patch is still 40% net positive for me. Dead Hard is still nerfed somewhat. Med kits and CoH is significantly nerfed. I almost never used Pain Res, Overcharge and CoB, so those changes don't impact me much. I am only disappointed that Dead Hard will still be in the meta.
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It's still worse than Grim Embrace and no one uses Grim Embrace, so....
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Gen regression perks aren't even good on most mid to lower tier killers since most of them depend on getting downs or having high mobility, which low-mid tiers killers don't have.
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Getting Light Burnt as Wraith was anything but fun
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No Sloppy Butcher smh
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Troll thread