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The title doesn't seem to match your post at all. A more accurate title would be "Is stricter matchmaking better?" My answer is yes. DBD is far too lax with its matchmaking compared to other games. Though, I don't think it should be extremely strict since DBD is a casual game. I think they should make matchmaking stricter. It's currently still possible for an extremely experienced player to face baby players. Fix that and it would be good.
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I actually think it's a bug because I had the same thing happened to me and when I watched the stream of a teammate of the survivor I hit, they also screamed, indicating the vomit registered on their side too.
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I miss face camping as a killer. It was a strong strategy to secure kills.
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Absurd activation requirements.
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@Beatricks said:
Okay, I can actually confirm with a 95% degree of certainty that such a statement cannot possibly be true.
Why? Because I've actually been keeping tabs!
During the Halloween event, I played 117 Survivor matches. Out of those, I escaped 4 times, twice with the aid of hatch and twice through the exit gates. That means, that over the course of about two weeks, I've lost 113 trials which is a 96.6% loss rate. Why am I making a joke out of myself? Because besides from the whole pointing at Beatricks and saying "git gud noob" there is the undeniable fact that my MMR should have plummeted to the ground.
What do we know of the hockey based MM? For one, that once you reach 1600 MMR, you CANNOT go below it, to avoid smurfing (oh the irony, but we will get to that). Now, I've previously played in the same lobbies as: Otzdarva (once as a fellow survivor), Hens (twice, once against his Demo and once as a fellow survivor), Knightlight (twice as a fellow survivor), Tru3 (faced him as a killer) and those are just the names I recognize. This makes me absolutely certain that I have passed the 1600 magical MMR threshold, so now I'm stuck with the big boys/girls/others.
We also know that 1800 MMR is the soft cap, above that, it is treated in the same manner as exactly 1800 points. There is also a 200 point matchmaking tolerance threshold, so the moment you reach 1600, you can go up against Supalf, Lilith Omen, etc, people who have maxed out their MMR even before that was a thing.
Yesterday, I had the misfortune of playing against a TTV Blight, whose 194th win in a row included my lobby. Now with 194 consecutive wins, I'm very hard pressed to believe that he was anything underneath 1800. I wouldn't be surprised if he was well above that when he started his win streak.
So, MMR is working in the same way as it has been. 1800+ high MMR monsters that could potentially win against tourney teams like eternal are sealclubbing 1600~ish little potatoes like myself.
And while I'm not keeping score now after the event, I can tell you that around 8 out of 10 games is a very easy 4k for the Killer because both me and my teammates go down relatively quickly since most Killers we face are high prestige and also high skill Nurses, Blights, Weskers, Spirits etc. Then we get one or two Killers who struggle for a 1-2k if they can even get it and we are back to BHVR endorsed smurffest.
Why are Otz and Scott saying this? I saw that Otz had a rough time with Hillbilly on Haddonfield when he couldn't get a single curve or his Dredge game where he got destroyed after making a bunch of mistakes, but none of those teams were even close to some of the killsquads I've seen on Killer, 4xP100 with 4 BNPs and Garden of Pain offering, no weak links, all running the best perks and utilizing checkspots with great expertise in predicting mindgames.* Are we really at a point where if a content creator has a bad day against a team that isn't a complete potato mixture something must be wrong?
I haven't been watching content creators, so I might be missing vital details here and I would appreciate any links. But the part about tighter matchmaking? Blatantly untrue.
*= And after playing against a team that feels like Eternal, my next match the first survivor will give up on first hook because I ran Lethal and found them leading to a braindead 4k.
Looks like your MMR was just too low since BHVR just confirmed they increased the soft cap.
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No reason to. It's a PVP game. DBD is only game where players complain about how the other side plays.
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I really want to see pick rates for all killers. Why did they only show it for the top 10? Smh
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Someone recently made a post about Singularity and it has many comments on why no one plays him. The main reasons were:
- pod lock on being blocked by small leafs
- being unable to place pods on some surfaces
- EMPs too strong
- too much effort for too little reward
- too hard
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Scot's theory is that they raised the MMR soft cap, so that extremely high MMR people are more likely to be matched against high mmr people. If this is true, this change would only impact people much higher than the MMR soft cap, which is probably the top 2.5% of players. The reason not all games are harder is that matchmaking still gives easier opponents if they can't find similar mmr opponents in time.
As someone who 4ks practically every match, I would say that most of my games are still easy but probably once every 4 games, I play against harder survivors.
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3-5% isn't much for killer. The main difference is that survivors are 1/4 of the team while killer is 100% of the team. Killers are meant to be about x4 stronger than survivors.
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He's B tier unless you use the vault speed addon. Otz is currently doing win steaks with Alien and averages less than 4 wins.
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Alien is fun. What are you talking about?
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@OnryosTapeRentals said:
I don't know about MMR, but my queue times have been really long today for both roles.
I've actually had the same problem. It usually takes less than a minute for me to find killer matches. Now it takes 2-3 minutes. I think that's the MMR trying harder to find similar mmr opponents. Though, I don't notice much difference in the difficulty of my games.
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Blight's m2 counts as a special attack and doesn't apply Knockout. If Knockout worked, you got downed by a Blight using only m1 in chase.
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@UndeddJester said:
The main point of it being a percentage here I believe is worth considering. The number itself can be debated, but the fact is the number of hooks in a map is dependent on the map.
For SH to be locked at 4 regardless of map, this naturally creates a map scaling problem, as some maps have more hooks than others. Unfortunately information on up to date/accurate minimum and maximum hook spawns per maps is hard to find... so suggesting a number is a little more tricky.
However the point is all SH perks would probably benefit from being a scalar of the number of hooks that spawn in the map, rather than just a flat 4, 1 extra hook on a map with a lot of hooks could very much make a big difference to the viability of a SH perk.
EDIT: After looking at it some more, somewhere in the region of 50% seems about right most of the time.
https://www.reddit.com/r/deadbydaylight/comments/z3dq54/this_is_how_many_palletshooks_can_spawn_on/
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I'm a PC killer main that 4ks virtually every match. As long as you are getting 60 fps, you're good. I recently swapped to 60 fps since my Display Port cable broke and it made 0 difference to my gameplay. FPS is literally only important for skill checks.
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@kit_mason said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3586200#Comment_3586200
You're now moving the goalposts, so I'm going to make this my last response on the subject.
Your Freddy response is reducing my argument to the absurd. Freddy's rework didn't benefit him long-term within the context of the game's life cycle. The point of pointing this out is that you are advocating for reworks as an often-successful means of improving killers, a fact I refute as they're not as surefire, and haven't been throughout the game's life cycle, as they're still not getting it right if we look at Sadako.
The argument for reworks was also why both Twins and Trickster were brought into this discussion in the first place, but now it's being asserted that I can't discuss Trickster but you can discuss Twins?
I've explained why nerfing slipstream removal in the way you have described is not QoL. It's worsening the survivor experience and validating less engaging strategies on the side of the killer. Auto camera targeting removes hiding within a pod's range entirely and makes placing a pod and entering it a surefire way to find a survivor you have lost, every single time, whilst also creating a power that might as well go off automatically (which would both then also lead to less engaging strategies on the Killer's side.)
And we're both advocating for better pod placement logic. In short, if you want a killer with a lower skill floor, they already exist. I wish you the best of luck in that endeavour.
I don't even know why we are discussing reworks in the first place. The changes I suggested are no where close to a rework. They are on the scale of buffs and nerfs and quality of life changes. Why are we even discussing reworks?
"The point of pointing this out is that you are advocating for reworks as an often-successful means of improving killers, a fact I refute as they're not as surefire"
False. Improvement is defined as becoming better than before. Freddy's rework is an improvement to his prior form. Even though Freddy is terrible currently, Freddy before his rework would be x3 worse. Sadako was also improved. In the past, everyone considered Sadako to be one of the worst killers, which could only use the slug strat. Sadako was improved in that she is much stronger and can play without slugging (even if the strat is still strong). Sadako is also somewhat of an outlier. Originally BHVR had it right where tapes were only removed after hooking (making slugging unviable) but the community cried about it, which resulted in Sadako's current state.
"The argument for reworks was also why both Twins and Trickster were brought into this discussion in the first place, but now it's being asserted that I can't discuss Trickster but you can discuss Twins?"
Completely different reasons for why they were mentioned. I mentioned Twins as a killer that they will rework. This is confirmed. You mentioned Trickster as an unhealthy killer. This is unconfirmed since killers usually get changed after PTB and Trickster hasn't been tested on live servers yet.
"I've explained why nerfing slipstream removal in the way you have described is not QoL. It's worsening the survivor experience and validating less engaging strategies on the side of the killer."
That's why I said it's partially QOL. It's obviously a buff. You fail to understand that players can simply ignore the Slipstream and keep working gens. As long as the Pods are EMPed, they will break the 3 gen. You also still can't explain why it's fine for Plague to have her Infection spread easily and why she can't hold a 3 gen well compared to Singularity.
"Auto camera targeting removes hiding within a pod's range entirely and makes placing a pod and entering it a surefire way to find a survivor you have lost, every single time,
Well, just make it so it only auto moves the camera if the survivor is scannable when swapping to the pad.
"whilst also creating a power that might as well go off automatically (which would both then also lead to less engaging strategies on the Killer's side.)"
Strongly disagree. 90% of what determines whether a Slipstream is successful is pod placement. Placing a pod in a good location guarantees the survivor is Slipstreamed while placing it in a poor position results in failure. As a PC player, the auto camera movement makes almost no difference for me, as I locate survivors within 0.5 seconds of switching to a pod. This change is mainly for console players.
Honestly, I can't be bothered arguing with you either. I think you have no understanding of Singularity and all your arguments are terrible.
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@kit_mason said:
They are too inconsistent. There aren't enough Scourge Hooks. I frequently get games where I get 0-1 Scourge hooks making Scourge perks useless in some matches
You're guaranteed four.
0-1 hooks on a Scourge Hook.
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Nah. As a killer main, I prefer mmr. Games would be too easy without it. I'm already 4king every match depending on the killer I play.
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Because Scourge Hooks are too inconsistent without Agitation. I have had many games where I got 0 Scourge hook. Sloppy Butcher is far more consistent.
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Clown is C tier. I've tried most builds on him and they all suck except Pinkie Finger. Don't use Yellow bottles unless you're in a long loop where Purple bottles aren't enough. You should almost never use Yellow bottles since Purple Bottles are more important and you don't have enough for both. BHVR thought it was as good idea to give Clown only 4 Bottles, which is too few.
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What's hypocritical about that?
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@kit_mason said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3585715#Comment_3585715
In the interest of avoiding making longer and longer response essays, I'm going to only focus on major issues I have.
Currently, Slipstream can be removed at a much faster rate than it can be applied.
This is untrue unless you're playing on a map with very high levels of sight line blocking like Hawkins or RPD (which is an issue with any LoS-requiring killer, like Huntress, Deathslinger, or even arguably killers like Billy). Reapplying Slipstream is as quick, if not quicker than removing it, and that's ignoring that if the survivor you're chasing is the one removing it then they are slowed, often causing them to take a hit.
[Freddy's] rework success wasn't "short-term". As I've said, it wasn't the rework that was unsuccessful. It was the nerfs afterwards that caused his current state.
It, by the very definition of the term, was only successful short-term. A successful rework would not have necessitated the nerfs that have placed him in the sorry state he is in now.
The killers that became weaker after their rework were the ones that were completely unfun to play against.
You missed the word "healthier" in my post. Many of the killers, whilst stronger, are not in a healthier place than they were - especially in cases like Sadako and the proposed Trickster changes (i.e. some of the most recent reworks we've had). Given Singularity's strength is fine - B is average, after all - the issue is health, which as I have now said what seems to be an endless number of times, are addressed with QoL changes, not reworks.
"This is untrue unless you're playing on a map with very high levels of sight line blocking like Hawkins or RPD (which is an issue with any LoS-requiring killer, like Huntress, Deathslinger, or even arguably killers like Billy). Reapplying Slipstream is as quick, if not quicker than removing it, and that's ignoring that if the survivor you're chasing is the one removing it then they are slowed, often causing them to take a hit."
I checked cocolatte_'s recent matches. Throughout most his matches, he only has 1 survivor Slipstreamed (the one he is chasing) and occassionally a 2nd survivor. The reason for this is that there's no point of trying to spread Slipstream when survivors can remove it so easily.
"It, by the very definition of the term, was only successful short-term. A successful rework would not have necessitated the nerfs that have placed him in the sorry state he is in now."
So you're telling me if a killer was successful for 100 years but becomes outdated at 101 years, the rework was a failure? Years is a very long time for a video game. The rework was a success. Never heard of the term "long-term"? I also don't see the point of this argument. Freddy was the first rework they did in the very early stages of the game when BHVR had limited experience. That rework doesn't reflect what BHVR would do today.
"You missed the word "healthier" in my post. Many of the killers, whilst stronger, are not in a healthier place than they were - especially in cases like Sadako and the proposed Trickster changes (i.e. some of the most recent reworks we've had). Given Singularity's strength is fine - B is average, after all - the issue is health, which as I have now said what seems to be an endless number of times, are addressed with QoL changes, not reworks."
Nope. The only killer that isn't healthier is Sadako. It isn't "many" like you said. Trickster isn't out yet, so can't be used as an argument.
The changes I suggested aren't reworks. They're mostly QOL changes. Auto camera targeting is QOL. Better pod placement logic is QOL. Nerfing Slipstream removal is partially QOL.
@DrDucky said:
Singularity is in a fine spot, the biggest issue is as you said; he is hard to play with no huge reward to compensate like say blight. I think bigger still though is his map dependency; if he gets an indoor map of any kind (or one with clutter but less so) then he basically has no power, imagine trying to pod people on Lery's for example, you basically cant and that just sucks.
Your proposed second idea would help an ok amount for console players sure.
Your first idea though has some problems, and you misunderstand the counter play to the killer and why EMPs and teamwork are so important against him. If that change was to go through and you could only EMP yourself, then if he chases you, you have absolutely 0 counter play since a teammate cannot run in and save you so you will have a pod stuck to you for the entire chase unless you grab an EMP before hand. In fact even if you EMPed the first one off by having one at the start of a chase, he could just pod you again and since you used your EMP you would again just have nothing you could do. A big part of this killer is helping your team by coming in with EMPs etc.
I disagree. It's as you said, he can just quickly Slipstream you again if you are in chase with him. Having a teammate come in for an EMP won't change much. It's better if that teammate just sat on a gen, which would have more impact.
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Dang. This combo is strong. Thanks for the build.
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@kit_mason said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3585584#Comment_3585584
Okay?
I'll give you that dark maps with immersed survivors is a problem worth discussing, but that's not specific to Hux in any regard, and is therefore irrelevant to our discussion entirely. And my go-to addons are Live Wires and Kid's Ball Glove - Hux remains to be fun and usable, with its main issues continuing to be fixable through QoL changes, rather than a full rework.
This killer isn't for everyone, and large-scale reworks torch the playerbase it already has in the hopes of fostering a new, entirely different one. Sometimes that's healthy for the game, like with Skull Merchant. But I don't think your proposed changes would put Hux in a healthier position- if anything, it'd validate playstyles that make it less healthy for the game on the whole.
It isn't dark maps with immersed survivors that's the problem. It's dark maps, which are half of the maps, that's the problem. It's critical to be able to identify good spots to place pods and quickly find survivors after switching to a pod. When the map is dark, this becomes x3 harder to do.
"I'm going to ignore specualtive statements on a world where Singularity's pick rate cuts by more than half of what it is now, because fundamentally the reason why Twins is unpopular is far more deeply rooted in their playstyle and bugs than Singularity is. They have entirely different issues and those issues are addressed in entirely different ways."
Firstly, we don't know Singularity's current play rate. It has already been proven that Nightlight's stats significantly differ from the actual stats. He could already be at Twins play rate. We will have to wait until BHVR releases stats again to know for certain. You also seem to be forgeting that with every new killer released and reworked, the play rates of all other killers drop as people change mains. Singularity is a new a killer that hasn't gone through this process yet and will drop in play rates as more killers are released.
"I thoroughly think EMPs are in a fine state outside of chase. Making them only cleanse yourself would make doubling gens when one survivor is Slipstreamed entirely unsolvable, one person has to drop the gen or both survivors are now Slipstreamed, with a very out-of-the-way solution of two different EMPs. I think any further changes to EMPs, if deemed necessary, should solely focus on their use in chase. As for reworks (that I can comment on, sorry Doctor and Cannibal):"
Slipstream spreading easier isn't a problem. It's what Singularity needs. Currently, Slipstream can be removed at a much faster rate than it can be applied. As I've already said, Plague's Infection spreads much easier than Slipstream and already infects multiple survivors working on the same gen.
"Nightmare is a non-point. Sure, the rework may have functioned short-term, but as we see it now, it didn't pan out well. Freddy is regarded as a bottom-3 killer, for good reason that you yourself identified."
Freddy was popular for years. The rework success wasn't "short-term". As I've said, it wasn't the rework that was unsuccessful. It was the nerfs afterwards that caused his current state. I also don't really blame BHVR since that the rework was done in the very early stage of the game when BHVR had limited experience designing and balancing the game. If they reworked him again today, it would be very different.
"In a similar vein, Trickster currently is at risk of ending up going the same way, given his PTB changes are widely regarded as making him too strong, especially with use of Death Throes Compilation."
He won't be any worse than he is already.
I think you are completely missing the reason for why certain killers may be weaker after their rework. The killers that became weaker after their rework were the ones that were completely unfun to play against. From that list, the only 2 killers that have supposedly gotten weaker were Skull Merchant and Legion. Both of these killers were extremely unfun to play against before their rework. Singularity doesn't fall into this category.
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@Huxy @just_one_player @kit_mason @TetroXyD
Disable Nvidia Filters and any other third party program that increases brightness. Don't use Soma Family Photo and Denied Requisition Form. Play on a dark map. Then report back to me how hard this killer is.
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@Devil_hit11 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3584710#Comment_3584710
i think there is misunderstanding to why Singularity is hard to play. So summary is that when you infect a survivor with slipstream, you gain ability to instantly teleport but the teleport is around 11-12 meters away. Overclock by default lasts 4.7 seconds+1 second per survivor that is infected. Survivors running forward outrun overclock duration. In order for singularity use the buff in chase, you need have 3 survivors infected. anything less than 3 survivor at base-kit means that survivor can just run forward after teleporting and they will outlast the overclock duration. Infecting 3 survivors entire trial is really impractical because 1 EMP can remove all 3 infections. At base-kit, singularity is not a good killer.
The way to fix his kit so that he needs less survivors infected is a purple add-on called Soma Family Photo. this add-on grants 5% haste. It has negative that it reduces overclock duration however there is grey add-on called kid ball glove that reverses negative. when you use these two add-on together, you only need 1 survivor infected. Survivor can no longer outrun your overclock duration. you don't need run kid ball glove because you can just have two survivors infected which is what Cocolatte does. The reason why Singularity is unpopular is because his base-kit is not very good and he is entirely reliant on Soma photo to be effective chasing killer. The only way you can not play with Soma photo is to have 3/4 survivors infected which is impractical because you need to know where 75% of the team is at all times and you have surpress EMP'S and make survivor waste EMP's.
Otz, a player with 11k hours, is currently trying to win streak on him and only averages 3-4 wins before losing, which is extremely low compared to his other killers.
Otz is losing because he is playing a killer that highly add-on dependent but he is also refusing to use high rarity add-on's without understanding that some killer simply rely on higher rarity add-on to be viable at highest level. When your doing win-streaks, you need to bring your A-game. It is just that some add-on might be considered too much of gameplay change for doing win streaks. he needs to distinguish necessity add-on and game-changing add-on that he might consider inappropriate for win streaks.
@appleas said:
Too much ways for Survivors to counterplay Hux.
1) EMPs (There needs to be a hard cap on the amount of EMPs or make it only capable of disabling one infection and one pod maximum per use)
2) LOS blockers where even one pixel of foilage can block slipstream via his pods
3) Survivor getting a visual cue that they are being locked on so they can find cover behind one pixel (Why does this even exist?)
Either one of the above needs to be tuned down.
I agree that survivors can remove Slipstream too fast due to the AOE Slipstream removal. The time it takes to Sliptream 3-4 survivors is high, but survivors can quickly stand together and remove it all once. It's far too efficient. This is the main thing holding Singularity back. As I mentioned in my post, only the survivor using the EMP should have their Slipstream removed. Slipstream is very similar to Plague infection and should be treated similarly.
As a PC player, I personally don't find it hard to apply Sliptream and the other issues with him are minor. The reason I think auto targeting is necessary for console players is that it's necessary to quickly aim pods in precise spots then quickly switch to the pod to apply Slipstream. The camera is often out of the place, so I usually quickly spin my camera and let the auto targeting find the survivor for me. This strategy seem too difficult to execute on console. Another reason is that the map is too dark. Nvidia Filters is 100% necessary to play this killer. I tried playing without Filters and it was x3 harder due to the dark map.
@kit_mason said:
Singularity has quickly become one of the least played killers, which is bad considering he's the 2nd newest killer. On Nightlight, he's 5th least played killer. Though his real pick rate is probably lower since Nightlight mainly uses stats from PC players. Without any change, Singularity will probably reach Twins levels of obsecurity in the future.
Within the context of a game with nearly 3 dozen killers, fundamentally they will have different skill floors and therefore different pick rates. Singularity has one of the highest skill floors we've seen so far, leading to an understandably low pick rate. And that's fine. Hux sits in the same place as the Artist - niche but ultimately fine, even if he could do with some QoL changes, which I will get into on your other points.
The reason no one plays Singularity is that he's too hard. Otz, a player with 11k hours, is currently trying to win streak on him and only averages 3-4 wins before losing, which is extremely low compared to his other killers. This killer is also impossible to play on console due to the need to quickly aim pods. The main issue with Singularity is that it's hard to apply Slipstream while it's too easy for survivors to remove it.
Last I heard him mention it, Otz placed Singularity in B or A tier - by his own admission, Singularity is in a fine spot strength-wise. As for Hux's worst issues, I'd argue they lie in issues with applying Slipstream, not survivor ease of removing it.
Firstly, EMPs should only remove Slipstream on the survivor using it. Given how easy it is to acquire EMPs, it shouldn't be able to mass remove Slipstream. Slipstream is similar to Plague Infection, which is much harder for survivors to remove while also having a stronger effect.
Absolutely not. Under no circumstances should EMPs be made weaker than they already are, with maybe the exception of weakening their removal in chase. Only being able to remove slipstream from yourself makes two survivors working on a gen together entirely unable to cleanse slipstream unless they both get up, visit different 3D Printers, and EMP seperately. I don't need to point out how much stronger this would make 3-gen Singularity, a playstyle I would very much like to stay garbage on my main.
Secondly, when switching to a pod, the camera should automatically face the nearest survivor. This is the only way to make Singularity playable on console. Finally, they need to make it possible to place pods on all surfaces. There are too many situations where you try to place a pod on a perfectly flat surface and it doesn't work.
Whilst I can't comment on changes to Hux that make him more feasible on console as a M&K player, I agree Pods need significant QoL work - many windows cannot be shot through for placing pods, their placement is awkward at the best of times (and yes, your view that they should place more consistently on surfaces is correct), and LoS is considered very strangely for Slipstream application.
Singularity's play rate will fall further with time. He's still the 2nd newest killer, which is why he's being played. Due to the higher skill floor compared to Artist and fact it's hard to play him on console, his play rate will definitely fall below Arist and likely to Twins level of unpopularity, which is a big problem since no one plays Twins due her clunkiness and terrible design. Singularity having the same play rate as Twins indicates that people think Singularity is as bad to play as Twins, which is extremely bad.
Otz placed Singularity in B+ tier, but he rates killers based on their average strength, which includes strong addons. Without strong addons, Otz probably would have placed him in C tier. Imo, with strong addons Singularity is A or S tier. Without strong addons, he's C tier.
Making EMPs only remove 1 Slipstream will improve his overall strength, which also improves his 3 gen, but I don't think it's enough to make the 3 gening good. As long as EMPs AOE disable pods, his 3 gen will be mediocre since he still can't defend gens well without tping. To 3 gen effectively, a killer must be able to either secure a down extremely fast or defend multiple gens at once, which Singularity cannot do. You need to compare Slipstream with Plague infection, which has a stronger effect and is easier to spread. Even though Plague has survivors permanently injured, she is mediocre at 3 gening.
As for why Singularity is hard to play, it's a combination of taking too long to apply Slipstream and survivors removing it too fast. I mostly apply Slipstream when I am in chase with them, so I apply Slipstream at a rate of 1 survivor per chase, but hooking the survivor removes the Slipstream. This makes it hard to spread Slipstream. On the other hand, survivors can remove Slipstream very fast due to the EMP abundancy and fact that 1 EMP can remove multiple Slipstreams. The only way to make Singularity spread Slipstream easier is reduce the effectivenes of EMPs on his pods, which cannot be done due to 3 gen problems. This means that it's instead necessary to reduce the ability of survivors to remove Slipstream.
@kit_mason said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3584236#Comment_3584236
This killer will definitely get reworked in the future due to the low play rate, as most killers with a low pick have.
Of the bottom 10 killers by Pick Rate in DBD currently, one has an announced rework: Twins, who is being reworked to address the fact that their playstyle is unfun to play as and against.
In contrast, Trickster is currently seeing significant PTB buffs whilst keeping his core gameplay loop the same, and Nightmare was reworked without improvements in Pick Rate, and hasn't been reworked again since 3.1.0, over four years ago.
The assertion that unplayed killers are often reworked is blatantly untrue, and the implication that these reworks function to benefit the killer is equally untrue.
List of full power reworks (when there was a massive change to their power):
- Doctor
- Cannibal
- Legion
- Nightmare
- Clown
- Twins
- Trickster
- Skull Merchant
- Onyro
Asides from Twins, every killer on this list was buffed from their rework. Asides from Skull Merchant and maybe Trickster, every killer on this list was reworked because they were considered terrible killers that no one wanted to play.
Nightmare's rework was a success. He was popular in the past and was considered A tier. What killed him off was the nerfs to slowdown in general. People used to run the Forever Freddy build on him. His addons got nerfed severely and all of the slowdown perks he used to run was nerfed (Thana and Ruin). He's also a very old killer and his power has become outdated as much stronger killers have been released.
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@ays12151 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3584385#Comment_3584385
I main Bubba since 2019 and I agree with the statement that 99% Bubba Players just don't know how to use their power properly.
Bubba is one of the hardest Killer at current Dead By Daylight, because his Power at average skill level (99% of Bubba players) is good only against Low Tier Survivors players. I'm pretty sure that 99% of Dead By Daylight Killer Players can not press his Tokens at decent level. Players don't know how to outplay loops with a Chainsaw, players don't know how to avoid some Tantrum, they don't know how to play at Unhooking Scenarios, they don't know how to outplay Lockers & more & more... - Bubba's Advanced Playstyle should be more popular - especially at current Dead By Daylight.
We received Two Showcases about Bubba
1) Two years ago with Mathis playing against Hens, Eventic & KL.
2) 4 Months Ago with me playing against Elysium (Top1-2-3 Team Im not sure at this moment) at "Comp Survs Vs Pub Killers" Showcase.
We have showed how Bubba can outplay loops - even against best Survivors in the game. It's very far away from Pub Matches. Like we can not compare this even in 1%. Now we can think what strong Bubba can do in Pubs - don't get me wrong - Bubba is strong, but he requires high level of skill & knowledge. He only needs 2-3-4% Speed Buff during his Chainsaw Sweep, because without Beast's Marks addon he loses his potential to outplay loops efficiently.
And why I mentioned Facecamping Bubbas at the start? I wanted to prepare myself to agruments like "Buuuu, he can camp efficiently, you can not rescue against him - bla bla bla" - like typical noobs comments.
It depends on how many pallets are on the map. If the map has many pallets, Beast Marks is needed to mind game. If map has the average number of pallets or less, Chilli is better to brute force the pallets. You can very quickly clear pallets with Bubba. After breaking 1 pallet with a Chainsaw, if you immediately start charging the Chainsaw (with double Chilli), the survivor will be forced to immediately drop the next pallet they run to and you will break it with the same charge. If there are no pallets, they just die.
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Yes.
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@KolbyKolbyKolby said:
Sure, and survivors should be able to see and dodge the killer too in the lobbies.
No because the survivors could tailor their perks to counter every killer.
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@Huxy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3584258#Comment_3584258
DRF doesn’t really make that much of a difference. It just skips the first 2 seconds or so that Hux would spend slipstreaming a Survivor. The extended Overclock duration can even delay a hit if you reach a Survivor too quickly since you have to wait for the duration to be low enough so you can teleport immediately after your attack CD.
Soma makes a difference, but that’s also because it hard-counters MFT. The only other solo Add-On that does that is Spent Oxygen Tank, and that one has no synergy with RB. Soma won’t make a Hux with it way stronger than one without it once MFT gets nerfed, even now I’d say Kid’s Ball Glove with Coup is about almost as strong as Soma with RB once a couple Gens get done. Is it still stronger? Yeah, but it’s also a Very Rare Add-On compared to a Common Add-On, so it makes sense that it’s stronger
I don't think you understand how strong these 2 addons are and how to use them to their full potential.
DRF is extremely strong due to the syngergy with Soma Family Photo and Lethal Pursuer. Lethal Pursuer lets you fully utilize the 30-60 sec window where you have all survivors Slipstreamed and a full duration speed boost. You can start chase extremely fast, down the first survivor extremely fast and keep up high momentum throughout the entire game. Secondly, it's extremely good on maps where it's hard to Slipstream survivors, e.g. Lery's and Red Forest, since it saves a lot of time. Thirdly, it significantly delays survivors getting EMP due to the later EMP spawn and fact that they have to use their first EMP to clear the DRF Slipstream. Cocolatte rated DRF as A tier, but with the synergy I mentioned, I think it's S tier.
You have it the wrong way around. MFT makes Soma weaker. Once MFT is nerfed, Soma will be even stronger. The reason it's so strong is the synergy with Rapid Brutality. You can get a 5-7 sec window where you have a 10% speed boost, which is often enough to get hits, especially when combined with Coup De Grace. Once MFT is nerfed, you will be able to get even more hits with this combo. Cocolatte rated Soma as S tier and described the addon as extremely powerful.
Anyway, if you only use yellow and brown addons, this killer is extremely hard. The reason Otz does this is that he wants to test killers in their "base form".
@myersgoestochurch said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3584258#Comment_3584258
You're never gonna get a perfectly even spread of killer picks, especially when killers tend to gravitate towards the easiest mechanics. Some killers are harder to manipulate than others, that's just how it is.
I disagree. All of the killers with an extremely low pick rate have a good reason for why no one plays them. If these reasons are addressed, people would play them. See the pick rates.
Singularity is the only hard killer that no one plays. Blight and Nurse are hard but popular due to their strength.
@just_one_player said:
If I were you, I would give up on the Singularity. It has a (small) number of fans who like its current gameplay, even though it is quite frustrating for most of the public. This causes it to be seen as a niche killer, although I deeply disagree that it's at an adequate level. I don't believe that not even the best Singularity player would be able to beat a decent and minimally coordinated team, but it's like I said, as there are people who like to play with it, it's unlikely you'll see any changes.
I think he will be reworked but probably 3-5 years from now after all the other killers are reworked. Once Twins are reworked, Singularity and Hag will be the 2 least played killers, and BHVR will eventually tweak him.
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@Huxy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3584236#Comment_3584236
And Cocolatte got over 100 wins in a row with Hux and has way less hours than Otz.
Hux doesn’t need a rework simply because he’s harder than most Killers. That’s what makes him so perfect. He’s one of the hardest Killers in the game, and he rewards the player by being one of the strongest Killers in the game, unlike Nurse who is way too easy compared to how strong she is.
The main difference between Otz and Cocolatte are the addons. Otz only uses yellow and brown addons for his streaks while Cocolatte used Denied Requistion Form and Soma Family Photo. This killer is ez mode if you run Denied Requistion Form and Soma Family Photo. I 3-4k most matches when I use these 2 addons. Don't use them and this killer is x5 harder.
@MikeStev said:
Easier Singularity will born a new Skull Merchant level of annoying and frustration
Not really. The changes I suggest don't make him significantly stronger at 3 gening. As long as the EMPs are AOE and spawn as fast as they do currently, his 3 gen will be limited.
@myersgoestochurch said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3584236#Comment_3584236
Too hard according to who? You? Lol. Win streaks aren't ground to built conversation, you're not supposed to get a 50 wins streak, whoever you are.
Most of the community, which is why no one plays him?
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@Huxy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3584169#Comment_3584169
No one plays him because he's hard, yes. And that's perfectly fine. Not every Killer needs to be easy to pick up and play. We need complicated Killers and Hux is perfect for that.
He's a super hard Killer that's also extremely fun and rewarding
@myersgoestochurch said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3584169#Comment_3584169
So you want to make him braindead to use because he has a low pick rate? That's not how it works. Some killers are easier to use than others and it's completely fine, just stick to wraith and move on.
There's hard. Then there's too hard. There's obviously a problem if Otz, who has 11k hours and mastered most killers, can only average 3-4 wins on this killer. This killer will definitely get reworked in the future due to the low play rate, as most killers with a low pick have. Having a killer that virtually no one plays is a waste.
I'm not even bad with this killer. If you run Denied Requistion Form and Soma Family Photo, this killer is actually ez mode and 3-4ks most matches. Without these 2 addons though, he's very difficult.
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@myersgoestochurch said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3584104#Comment_3584104
This all sounds like a skill issue to me. He's fine, he doesn't need that. Besides, players who pick him are bad at the game anyway so let's not hand hold them even more.
The stats show he has the 2nd lowest kill rate when the top 5% of players play him, so it doesn't seem like a skill issue. Even the top Bubba player struggles to win streak on him.
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@myersgoestochurch said:
None of these propositions are interesting or valid.
Why does no one play Singularity and how would you fix that then?
@Huxy said:
The only changes Hux needs are Add-On changes (why do we need Blindness Add-Ons in 2023?) and bug fixes (you straight up can't place Biopods on certain surfaces. Or when you place a Biopod and it doesn't spawn for some reason). Hux is genuinely perfectly fine aside from those aforementioned issues, even on console
The impact that would have on his pick rate would be... 0. If you've read any of the comments about him, no one plays him because of his high difficulty. Changing his addons, which I think are already strong, won't do much. The pod placement bug is annoying but isn't the main reason people don't play him.
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Nemesis definitely needs a buff. He's literally a much worse Alien.
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@Deathstroke said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/396822/cannibal-needs-a-small-buff
Tantrum can happen ramdomly too and even for quite good bubba on new maps with stuff. I would decrease tantrum duration or just remove it and hitting walls should then only slow down bubba. Buffing from 132 to 136 is too much. 134 however could work.
Funny that I suggested this exact change months ago. https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/371735/does-anyone-feel-like-bubba-shouldnt-enter-tantrum-when-hitting-objects
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Bubba was always a bad killer. People only picked him to face camp. Bubba actually has the 2nd lowest kill rate in high mmr. Now that camping has been nerfed, he needs buffs.
Firstly, Tantrum is far too punishing. Bubba has the most punishing power in the game. There is no other killer in the game that basically gets stunned for 8 seconds when they fail their power. Tantrum should be removed. Instead, Bubba should be temporarily slowed when he bumps. I discuss this here. Tantrum is far too difficult to avoid and is the main thing holding back most people from playing him. Even the top Bubba player in the world regularly bumps into walls, which just show how difficult it is to avoid bumping.
Secondly, his Sweep needs to be longer by default. Bubba is basically unplayable without Chilli since his Sweeps don't last long enough to get hits. Otz discuses this in his video.
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@MikhailVictor said:
Yes, let's give him trickster treatment and make him even more miserable in chase while not giving him any map control
@Evan_ said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3582890#Comment_3582890
This, but unironically. As a Clown-main, I do struggle with the lack of map-mobility or any sort of global presence. But 'fixing' that would strip him of his identity. While I feel op's suggestion is too much, the direction of the thought is good. Mr Chase is an excellently designed killer, he only needs to do more of what he already does. And extra bottle, or even just more flexibility in changing bottles would go a long way.
I disagree. This buff would just make his chase power similar to Cenobite, who has infinite power usage and a stronger slow. His tier would go from C tier to B tier. The main thing holding back Clown is his tiny 4 bottle arsenal. Most killers have infinite power usage and directly damage the survivor from their power. The fact that Clown only has 4 Bottles when his Bottles don't directly damage the survivor is absurd.
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@LapisInfernalis said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3582107#Comment_3582107
Then why do you war it to be hidden? So you can proxy camp better with your stealth killer?
Kindred exists, you know
So they don't get free info every time the killer is near.
Kindred requires a perk.
@itstofuuu99 said:
if the meter is going up that, means you’re camping does it not?
The meter rises when the killer is within 16 m. Doesn't necessarily mean they are camping.
@UndeddJester said:
Terror radius? 🤨
Undetectable?
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@LapisInfernalis said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3581911#Comment_3581911
That's the intention. No killer should be able to camp for long periods of time. Even stealth killers.
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3581845#Comment_3581845
Imo Alien should not be able to just camp at the next tunnel. There is a reason why Dredge can't use lockers next to a hooked person.
Hiding the meter doesn't encourage camping since you can't camp to begin with.
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@sizzlingmario4 said:
If a stealth killer gets punished for trying to use their stealth just to camp, that sounds perfectly fair to me.
You can't camp though since the anti-camp meter will rise.
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@CrypticGirl said:
If Killers are staying close enough to the hook to raise the meter, they aren't being very stealthy, even if Survivors couldn't see the meter.
False. There are many instances where a survivor wouldn't be able to see the killer without the meter. Examples would be GF and Pig crouching and Alien being underground.
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@supersonic853 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3530646#Comment_3530646
doctor it basically acts like a second static blast, you basically get the perfect static blast everytime. Really good with both his addons to raise hit tr. Or iri queen to mark seperated survivors.
Doctor high mobility and surprisingly low tr killers can make very good use out of it. Its probably the best perk of the update.
You can already run Whispers on Doctor for that.
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I've been playing Xeno all day. He's an S tier killer. Massive skill issue if anyone thinks Xeno is weak.
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Killer main that's been playing since 2019. Yes. It's the easiest it has ever been to win with killer. Old DH, DS, keys, instant syringe, and etc. It was far more bs back then.
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@dbdthegame said:
I've been having lots of fun with Waterlogged shoe+Scarred hand. Use hand to block strong vaults and pallets and you'll have a better time.
They just leave the loop. It's the same thing as Knight but worse.
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@Devil_hit11 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3496122#Comment_3496122
you play waterlog shoe like trapper. you put traps on pallets with the reward of like a freddy snare. slow setup killer are just weird in dbd 2023. they kinda just don't make much sense. your better off playing artist in my opinion.
There's no point since most of them will trigger and get wasted. Even if they do trigger while you're chasing a survivor, it won't do much most of the time.
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@Seraphor said:
She's not supposed to be played the same as Clown, she's a setup killer not a chase killer.
You realize there is no point setting up traps in advance with Waterlog shoe right?
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@Pulsar said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3481011#Comment_3481011
That's....hmmm.
That's a good argument, actually.
I don't think the streak should be completely invalidated, but perhaps a post-Eruption section would be wise.
What about streaks that were started or active during Eruption but continued after?
The best way to do it is to probably make a separate list for each patch, but I wouldn't know how to count streaks across multiple patches. Maybe mention the patch the streak started in and the patch the streak ended in.