ad19970
ad19970
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The problem I have with Pinhead is that his actual, skill based ability is simply to weak for the effort it takes, but his passive is arguably too strong.
I hope that the devs change Pinhead by buffing his possessed chains in a few ways, to make their average use case simply a bit more effective and therefore rewarding, and then nerf the box for solo survivors by having the aura of all survivors, that are within, lets say, a 32 meter range of the box, revealed to all survivors in the match. And when chain hunt starts, maybe even have all survivors auras revealed to each other map wide.
This would help solo survivors be able to better judge whether they should go for the box or not. The biggest problem I see is that in solo queue, sometimes multiple survivors go running to the box, and other times nobody gets the box. SWF teams, at least 3 and 4 man swf teams, don't have that problem.
And then on the other hand, Pinheads actual ability that takes a good amounf of skill, is better and more effective in chases when buffed, which would arguably make him more viable against the really good survivor teams, especially swf, but not as oppressive against solo teams, or survivor teams with not as much experience.
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Escape is an indication of skill, but not a full representation. Survivors that have higher escape rates are definitely more likely to be good at the game though, both in playing well as a team and doing gens well, and being good at looping.
But escaping as the only measurement of skill in this game is just completely false in my opinion. There are more factors to account for to judge a survivor players skill for sure, which is why the current MMR really shouldn't be called skill based matchmaking.
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Spirit is not dead, I really doubt it at least. She does have some actual, none-luckbased counterplay though. Most people are happy about these changes. Trappers buff is definitely nice, so is Plagues. Also, I fail to see how Plague is one of the worst killers in this game. She can keep everyone one-shot, or have survivors cleanse and then gain more access to an incredibly strong power.
Keys were actually gutted, though, another great change for killers.
Yes, the two new boon perks sound pretty damn strong, but I doubt they'll be stronger than meta perks we already have, at least now with the nerfs they announced in mind. Afew survivor perks got some nice buffs as well, but so did a few killer perks, mainly Retribution, and in particular, Hex: Blood Favor.
This game may have used to be incredibly one sided, but it's not anymore. There's no doubt to me that the game is sitll survivor sided at the very high level of play, but winning as killer isn't impossible either, at least or especially when you get a balanced map. You might need to camp and tunnel in too many situations though, but that's a general balance problem, and a strategy that can actually be good for killer.
I doubt we'll see too much of a killer shortage after the patch or in the future. The devs care for both sides, they have shown it again and again, and this patch shows it as well. They just aren't as effective and good at balancing as I wish they were, hence why the game is arguably still survivor sided at the highest mmr.
But there's also the issue of swf vs solo, and that killers generally have an above average kill rate at lower ranks. So just buffing killers left and right will make low ranks possible very unfun for survivors.
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I am still hopeful that the mori changes will be that change to the core gameplay of dbd that people are hoping for. They said they wanted to implement moris into the killer base kit, and have survivors be able to interact with it in a way to prevent moris, which kind of sounded like that second objective people are hoping for.
But who knows, it all depends on what they‘ll aftually do with this. It could end up being something meaningless that will have no real effect on matches, at least not at high ranks.
Im enjoying dbd a lot, but i do agree that this game can get stale, a bit faster than other games since it‘s gameplay doesn‘t have the most variety to it.
The game does have loads of different killers and perks, but sadly not all killers are viable at higher ranks, and the majority of perks are just decent at best and cant keep up with the meta. Hell even a good amount of maps are pretty unbalanced still.
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@[Deleted User] said:
There is no fight against cheaters at BHVR. They view them as legitimate customers. Best thing we can do is support other games when they come out and hope for competition.
Yeah I doubt they view them as legitamte customers, I just think they don't really have the tools or the competence at the moment to deal with them appropriately.
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I surely hope they start taking the cheater problem more serious in this game. It's time to do so.
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I would bet that being the "enemy" or "bad guy" of the survivor team was the intention of the devs when creating this game. Probably didn't expect people to take "winning" and "losing" in a game like this so serious.
To be fair though, if they did further improve the balance of the game to make the game fairer for both sides, this way of looking at the game would probably improve further as well.
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@Viamont said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2555745#Comment_2555745
PH mini mori needs the survivor to be tormented to go for the kill, how about something akin BUT with a fair trade.
When a survivor its on the second hook stage and has at least removed 1 chestbuster its marked as a "treat to the hive", if the survivor its brought down to a dying state it will trigger the "apex predator". The alien will circle its prey for 5 seconds hissing in a treatening way (this is in line with the lack of a previous step, PH needs the tormented status, the alien doesnt need to use an atack, instead it pays with "time" to trigger it), during those 5 seconds the atack can be cancelled by survivors with a flash or similar efect that blinds the alien, past those 5 seconds the mini mori its activated and the alien kills the survivor (this is tought just an alternative idea, i do like your concept of the headbut triggering it as it needs an atack to make it happen)
I do se where you are coming from with the high camping potential of how the addon/perk works...but i defintily feel the wax part would be very tematic and in line with the alien. Perhaps instead the addon could work like this:
While being carried around by the alien, the creature secretes a special sticky wax wich covers the survivor. Upon being hooked the wax hardens on a type of coccon wich makes it harder to be unhooked. The teammate unhooking the survivor takes twice as long to save the other person and has to do a skill check, on a failed atempt it still frees the survivor but reveals its location for 2 seconds. The cocconed survivor its slowed down for 2/3/4 seconds by 5%
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2555815#Comment_2555815
Not necesarily, i would say this killer could be cataloged as a short range heavy melee atack type, it doesnt really have many ranged atacks, its lung atack its in line with this type of killer (demagorgon as an example), but to make up for that it has a strong 1v1 game, it doesnt have a particularly strong map preasure as it cant be in more than one place or move tremendously fast trought the map (like nurse or hag), on the other hand it makes up for that with "debuffs" to keep the survivors bussy (chestbusters).
The tunneling part tough lets be honest, many killers can simply choce to do it, piramid head could be an example as he just needs two hooks to do that, and for what i know PH isnt in general a heavy tunel killer (regardless that i do has the potential) its more of the player behind it but thats just my personal opinion about it.
I would say the complexity its what makes it SO interesting. As a killer you would be constantly trying to keep the survivors off the medical areas so you can secure extra kills with the chestbusters, but at the same time would need to make sure you dont overcomit or they would work with the generators, the heigtened sensses on the other hand its tremendously in line with the alien, those things are super predators, you would need to comit as much as posible to your preys in order to keep them at bay, in the end the lack of map preasure can play againts you, so as a killer you would need to be smart and agresive to keep the survivors on their tows.
As a survivor you would need to also work a bit more as a team (something that lets be honest, the game needs more off), making sure your team mates have enought time to remove the chestbusters while working on generators.
I feel its a fair trade, killers have to fumble a lot of things mid game, making the survivors have a small taste of extra task doesnt sound bad to me, spices things up a bit
it's complexity would definitely make for an interesting and fresh killer, I agree. And to be fair BHVR definitely has been trying some more new stuff with Nemesis and Pinhead. Pinhead has this whole second objective going on with him, and his ability is also pretty interesting and unique, and Nemesis has Zombies and vaccines that make survivors last longer in chases. So who knows.
I guess it depends on the numbers on some of his abilities. But increased movement speed for example would give him a bit of map pressure, and a very good chase potential. That plus a chargeable lunge attack sounds a lot like victor, who is already very hard to counterplay, but he at least cant injure a survivor and then go after them to down them. So his chase already sounds strong, but then he also has a bit of map pressure, and a second objective that sounds like it could potentially be better than Pinhead's, and the ability to Mori a survivor after their second hook when hitting them with their ability, that sounds a bit too strong.
If a killer has increased movement speed that he can use during a chase, than he has to have some kind of downside as well while having that increased movement speed, or survivors will likely have very little counterplay against that killer. I guess if it was a 5% movement speed increase survivors would still have enough counterplay with enough loops in this game, but even just that together with the other aspects of this killers power could feel a bit too oppressive.
But yeah it really also depends on how much of a movement speed buff the killer gets, and how far the pounce ability would reach. I think the killer sounds great but with a dangerous potential of being op.
But one thing I completely disagree with is the Mori with Pounce after the survivor reached hook stage 2. I know Pyramid Head has the potential to do so, but hes the only one, and he at least has to make survivors walk through his rites of punishment trail. Being able to just tunnel the survivor off of hook without the fear of DS seems a bit much in my opinion. And it incentives tunneling also because it would allow Xenomorph to get rid of that survivor so fast and easy.
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@musstang62 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2555758#Comment_2555758
Honestly, I feel like boon totems are way stronger than ruin right now, considering that ruin is not likely going to last beyond the 3 minute mark, and boon totems can be made to cover the entire map + be reblessed ad infinitum
If the trade off was that the ruin regression rate was cut in half, the range reduced to cover half the map (based on totem location), BUT you could reapply the hex with an activation that took 1/4 of however long it takes to bless a boon totem ... ruin would be massively stronger than it is right now
Maybe. I thin kRuin is still fine with Undying, on its own though you risk losing it within the first monute or so.
If it lasts 3 minutes though I would argue you already got some nice value out of it.
But the actual effect of Ruin is definitely stronger than that of the upcoming boon effects, both because of the actual effect and the range. And if all 4 survivors try and bless a totem to cover the entire map, all survivors are off of gens, while searching and blessing a totem.
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I don't see how any killer could be seen as crutch. Nurse is the only killer that could be seen as op but she is also the hardest killer to learn and master, so she is definitely not crutch.
Maybe Spirit, but she isn't as easy to play as some people seem to think she is. And she certainly won't be too strong after her nerf either.
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If facecamping gets nerfed, perhaps they will also work on giving killers just a bit more time to deal with survivors, though the varying level of power that killers have will already make such a universal buff to killers hard to do right.
A camping nerf on the other side is only a nerf to a certain strategy, killers can play diferently to still do well. However, there are situations where camping, or rather proxy camping, is the best play of a killer, and if they end up nerfing that as well for killer, that would nerf killers in general, which could definitely be a problem. Killer can already feel pretty stressful.
I have to say though, if a killer gets run for all 5 gens, then that's not the game's fault one bit. That just means the killer was far less skilled than the survivor they were chasing.
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@Rez_Marsiel said:
So much thought put into something. An amazing idea. But there's one problem. Survivors would complain about this non-stop, and BHVR is too scared to make a killer strong.
Not really no, this game already has strong killers. Believe it or not, but many survivor players just don't want to go against overpowered killers, or killers against whom they don't have anything they can do to affect chases.
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These ideas sound very interesting and engaging, the killer sounds like fun. But he also sounds like he could be op. Increased movement speed for map pressure and chase potential, a pounce that further makes his chase stronger, and a second objective for survivors that they have to complete or they suffer from debuffs and potentially death at the end. Not to mention the mori that could incentivise tunneling a survivor off of the hook if they were in stage 2.
Maybe I am missing something though, he seems quite complex, which is also something that could end up problematic.
Still, the ideas and general design seem pretty good.
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@ASurvkillivorer said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2555575#Comment_2555575
You aren't trying to remove the Hex.....that is the point.....because you kinda can't and don't have the time to? But are then forced to be careless because you don't have the time TO be careful...
My entire complaint.....
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2555580#Comment_2555580
Well thats because they all know I am right. It's obviously something the devs didn't intend. The perk goes from being strong on most killers to RIDICULOUSLY strong on Pig. Removing all gameplay elements of defense. Like I said. if your trap goes active and you have been hooked. What steps are there to reasonably try to remedy the situation? There is none.
Dude you have your opinion, thats fine. But no, they don't "know" that you are right, because most people would argue you are wrong.
Pig can already use her crouch ability to go undetectable, so I as well don't understand why Plaything issuchn a problem on Pig. I also haven't seen anyone else complain about this yet, it seems like most people aren't agreeing with you here.
If the devs actually nerf Plaything, I'm gonna laugh hard. That perk isn't op at all. What changes would you suggest though out of curiosity?
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@Yamaoka said:
Games aren't particularly fun on both sides as soon as you get "seemingly high" MMR.
High MMR survivors:
- know every single killer power weakness.
- almost never fall for mindgames. (stretch for the win)
- do nothing but gens if there's no hex totems.
- consistently find and cleanse hex totems before you even end your first chase if you run hex totems.
- always hold W and pre drop if your killer has a good anti loop power.
- always do gens while injured if you don't tunnel them instead of healing themselves/looking for someone or something (medkit or totem for Inner Strength) to heal them (that's the reward you get for not tunneling).
- bodyblock for each other mid chase multiple times per match while the other survivors stay on their gens.
Against a "high MMR survivor team" most regular killers feel almost worthless so I can see why many killers just give no damn at some point and will camp, tunnel, slug at 5 gens whilst running every slowdown perk in the book.
Going for actual legit "fresh" chases off of gens with 0% tunneling, slugging, camping isn't rewarded.
I would argue there is counterplay to some of these points. Like if a survivor doesn't heal a killer can definitely punish them for that. Also, even if a survivor knows every killer powers weakness, at least a fair amount of killers are still strong enough to do well against them, in my opinion.
Perhaps my mmr isn't max though, so it's still hard for me to judge. The stretched resolution thing in particular is bs though.
And I do agree that playing skillful and fair is too often not rewarded as much as playing campy and tunnely, though I sometimes still feel it depends on the situation and progress of the match. I've been doing fairly well at the moment without camping and tunneling while playing Nemesis, but again that might also be because I am not max mmr yet.
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Not often. But the game isn't balanced around this. If survivors had a 50% chance of losing the killer or running them for long enough that they have to lose you, the game would be a mess.
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@VikingDragonXii said:
And allowing survivors to relight their Boons isn't OP......yes Killers should be allowed to relight their Hexs now because Hex Undying is useless with how Boons work. The Devs either didn't think too clearly on how they can be OP.
Boon perks are not on a level with Hex perks when it comes to their effects. A map wide gen regression at twice the speed for example is definitely stronger than double the healing speed and self healing within a 24 meter radius of the boon totem. Not to mention the killer doesn't need to waste time activating their totem.
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I guess it could maybe work if you could only do it once, but on the other hand, it would perhaps already be too strong looking at how strong some of the hex perks are.
I would fear that the Undying/Ruin combo would become too hard to get rid of again considering Ruin's power.
Not to mention that this could also hurt solo survivors more than swf survivors. With swf, only one survivors has to see the killer relighting the totem, and everyone would know where it is. Solo survivors wouldn't have that privilage, so if the one survivor that saw the killer relighting their totem got chased after that, Ruin or any other Hex perk would potentially stay up for much longer against the solo survivor team then the swf team.
If the aura of the totem that got relit was shown to all survivors, maybe that could work. Obviously that totem wouldn't last too long but it would create a small second objective for survivors for that short time.
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@Rhoska said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2553665#Comment_2553665
Nothing I said was false, all of it is accurate, and you state you do not contest any of it.
That you think survivor/killer balance "isnt that bad anymore as some say", thats, well, like your opinion.
My assesment is what I already posted.
Then why did you even post it? You posted it in relation to my comment towards someone else where I pretty much argued that the game isn't that unbalanced anymore, and you told me I don't seem to play killer and am biased towards survivor. If you just stated a fact, why then did you accuse me of being biased and not playing killer because of my arguments and opinion? The only reason I see for that is that you argued that the game is indeed unbalance, more than I believe it is, and then I proceeded to argue why that's not the case. Never was I addressing or disputing the facts you were using in your comment, but arguing against why these "facts" weren't a reason for me to believe this game is so unbalanced.
You just seem to have derailed this discussion into an argument over facts after that, which this never was, intentionally or unintentionally dismissing my arguments and the actual point of my post. Like I am not even 100% sure anymore if you are serious or if you are just trolling me at this point.
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@Rhoska said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2555448#Comment_2555448
So who is that not "fun" for?
Do you find being hooked to me fun? :D
The result is the same for Killer, in that the slugged cant do gens or any other actions except crawl or heal, and obligates another Survivor to stop doing other things and xome pick them up (latest before they bleed to death).
Sure, Killer takes a loss in BPs for not hooking, but if you have 3 slugged, its better than having 3 hooked, cos they cant get off the ground (without specific perk) but can potentially jump off the hook.
Hey, if you find slugging not unfun to go against, that's fine, that's your opinion. But the general opinion is that being slugged is just not fun. Of course the occasional slug is not a problem for most people, it's the 3 or 4 man slugs before hooking a survivor.
I think it's unfun in particular because it never really progresses the killers objective, or it only does that in an incredibly slow way, but it constantly means survivors have no breathing time, healing a slugged survivor takes a bit unlike unhooking a survivor, and in general a slug fest can make matches last very long, and just become boring because you are just constantly trying to pick each other up, and every once and a while, repair a bit of a gen. Meanwhile the chase gameplay can fall a bit short in comparison, which is arguably the most fun part about DBD.
But yeah, the reason that their are barely any perks aiding this playstyle is that most people do not enjoy going against a slugging killer.
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Yeah I 100% agree, it does not need to be a Hex perk now anymore. It only affects the cleansing and blessing speed of totems, which really isn't that impactful anymore now that it gives killers no sound notification.
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I agree as long as none deaf people can't gain any advantages from this. For example the visual indication for the killers terror radius can not be any more clear than the sound of the terror radius. Although to be fair the heartbeat is fairly accurate in most cases regarding how close the killer is too you.
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The tricky thing with something like this is to make it so solo survivors don't suffer from these changed objectives compared to swf survivors.
I feel like having parts you need to find in order to repair gens can easily be much harsher on solo than swf survivors. Auras on such parts would probably be a must. More importantky though, survivors would need an ingame feature to let other survivors know what part they are going for.
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@landromat said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2554299#Comment_2554299
this
And it's even not about getting good. You can't beat even average survivors bringing their strongest stuff with voice comms etc. you just can't. That's how game is balanced
I mean you can beat average survivor players if they bring their best stuff. You'll just have to play better then them because they are being carried a bit by their best stuff. Or you are using one of the best killers, with some of the best stuff as well.
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I want to say Macmillan because of Coal Tower, but that realm also has Suffocation Pit and Groaning Storehouse.
Honestly most realms have good and not so good maps, especially among the original 3 realms.
I actually like the swamp realm, both maps are fairly balanced in my opinion.
Dead Dawg saloon is also one of my favorite maps, and fairly balanced on most killers, though arguably a bit busted for the S tier killers.
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@Shroompy said:
youre new around here arent you?
Because the devs never listen to players?
Not saying it's likely they'll change the sbmm, because it probably isn't, it's the type of more fundamental change that they wouldn't just want to revert, sadly. But it's not like they never listen to players.
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I would argue he is fairly strong, but perhaps for the wrong reasons. His passive is what makes him pretty dangerous, his chase potential on the other hand isn't as effective. And it is easier for swf survivors to deal with the box than solo survivors, since they can communicate who goes for the box.
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@Impose said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2553086#Comment_2553086
"This is false, closing the topic, we will have a statement next dev stream." Is how you handle this if you're innocent. You don't ban the people bringing the information to the public.
Literal coverup 101 is banning/slandering the individuals who bring anything you do to light.
Or in this case, it was indeed because of the false information spread here. Not saying banning him was the right thing to do, your suggestion would have been better, but that doesn't mean they are indeed trying to cover up what was posted in this thread. There can be more than one reason for a certain action.
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@[Deleted User] said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2553616#Comment_2553616
I mean you literally just said you enjoyed getting a flashlight save against the Killer at the end and securing a 4E while the Killer got nothing. You got an intense match and won on all fronts, whereas the Killer lost on all fronts. Your self-centered empathy is messed up.
Lmao what? They won the game, the Spirit lost the game. That can happen. And OP enjoyed that match a lot. What on earth is wrong with that? Killers can still lose some matches when playing at mmr fitting to their skill, just like they can also win some matches.
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@Rhoska said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2553583#Comment_2553583
Then I dont see why you took argument against my post.
I see nothing there in yours that refutes what I have already said.
Because you used those arguments to claim that the game is as unbalanced as some people here believe. You called me biased and said I probably don't play killer much because I don't think the game is so survivor sided anymore. That's how this discussion started.
I was arguing against your post because I was backing up my viewpoints on this game's current state regarding balance.
I'm not refuting what you were saying. Never claimed I did. Don't know where you got this from. I just don't agree that this game is so unbalanced. And I argued why I think that way, by arguing that the optimum of one second in chase means three seconds progress on gens isn't the norm throughout the entire match, which you used as an argument to claim that this game is indeed unbalanced like the person was claiming that I responded too.
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@latinfla4 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2553489#Comment_2553489
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2553469#Comment_2553469
It is ridiculous...I would get lower mmr and they would get higher mmr...good thing this forced sbmm was thought through 🤔
It's hard to believe this sbmm is what we ended up with after they worked on it for like over a year or so. I don't quite get it, but it seems quite obvious to me that sbmm was never a serious priority to them. They definitely didn't succeed when it comes to this game's matchmaking in my opinion.
Though luckily I personally can't say my matches have gotten worse since the new sbmm. I am actually enjoying this game alot again since recently. My killer matches if anything have gotten more challenging on average, but I don't really mind that currently, and it made me believe that their new skill based matchmaking was actually an improvement over the old one.
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@latinfla4 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2549410#Comment_2549410
Think the backlash was enough🤣 imagine going through the circle of healing stacks where survivors healed faster than you cooldown animation from swinging 😱
I mean obviously. It just again shows that this idea that the devs never listen to the community is just not true. They certainly don't always listen as much as they maybe should, but they do listen.
Of course, looking at some people in this community, you can't blame BHVR for being cautious when it comes to listening to their community at times.
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@justbecause said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2553496#Comment_2553496
Well that's nice to hear unfortunately I can't say the same for me games were nothing but hell on both sides If I play killer gens fly like crazy if I play survivor my team is all acting like newbie rank 20's that gets me killed all time and I know my skills aren't that low
This again is something I don't understand. If gens are constantly flying like crazy for you, I guess you are losing most of the matches, or? So your mmr should lower until you go against survivors you can compete with more. But for some reason that doesn't seem to be happening. The sbmm just doesn't seem to be good.
And, well, if that's true and your teammates are getting you killed, then we already know why sbmm isn't helping you in that case, as the lead designer of BHVR himself admitted it's mostly just about escapes.
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@JohnWeak said:
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/R1DLQH1OSR10/3l9r0mviq2s71.png
Look, these are the stats for SBMM. Of course, they are not divided by SBMM level.
Still, average is 50%, even though we don't have the deviation, rendering those stats almost useless.
We all know that :
- at under average MMR, game is killer sided
- at above average MMR, the game is survivor sided
We can then easily take the shortcut : most trials at under average SBMM end up with 3 to 4 kills. It means that to get the 50% mark, above average SBMM trials end up with 0 to 1 kill most of the time.
Showing the global stats is BS.
Exemple to show how absurd it is :
Let's define the average salary of someone in a company of 10 workers.
1 earns 1 million $.
9 earn 1000$.
Average salary = 100 900 $
Pretty good company that pay well the employees but nope, 1 has an astonishing pay and all the others are almost homeless.
Let's wait to see if BHVR will release high SBMM stats, that's the only thing that matters and i'm pretty sure we are around 25% for this population.
You are right that the high sbmm kill rates will probably be lower, but I doubt it's 25%. I don't think the imbalance between low rank and high rank is that high. I might be wrong though, but I am doubtful.
Also, a game like DBD has to be balanced around both low and high rank.
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@Rhoska said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2553450#Comment_2553450
######### nonsense did I just read.
Do you dispute that the optimum, and thus baseline in this concern, is that if you arent being chased by Killer, you should in priority be doing gens?
I specifically underlined earlier, that Killer objective to win is to eliminate Survivors, and Survivor objective to win is finish gens.
If Killer cant eliminate Survivors, Killer loses.
If Survivors cant finish gens, exits are not opened, and they all will lose (caveat: Hatch).
All else is situational and arbitrary.
Ofc healing others if necessary, unhooking, blocking, running Killer around, totem smashing etc age involved, but those dont "win" the match nor open exits. No gen completion is inevitable game-over/loss for Survivors.
Do you dispute that?
--------
Thus what I said, that every second the Killer is chasing 1 Survivor (and Killer can only chase 1 at a time) in optimum is 1 seconds by 3 other Survivors on 3 gens.
How do you not understand this?
######### are you doing in your matches as Survivor, if not prioritizing getting gens done? Thats literally your primary job.
Ok now you are just being purposefully cluelees as a desperate attempt to make my arguments look bad, or something like that.
I understand what you are saying, I wrote the same thing your wrote in my post.
I understand that the survivors priority is doing gens when not getting chased. And yes, I know what the objectives are in this game. What do the definitons of these objectives have to do with the balance of the game? Why would I dispute that doing gens is the ojective of survivors? And why would I have to in order to argue that the game isn't so unbalanced? Hello?
Never did I say you shouldn't prioritize gens as survivor.
I understand that a killer in a chase means in optimum three other survivors are working on gens, so every second a killer spends in that chase, 3 seconds worth off gen progression is done by the other three survivors.
But I then argued that this is not how the match plays out the entire time. A killer doesn't always just chase the first survivor they find and that's it. And when a killer starts hooking survivors, other survivors have to go rescue them, meaning during that time they are not working on gens. Which means the optimum of three survivors working on gens isn't always given during a match. Which are arguments of mine for the claim that this game isn't as unbalanced, despite gens not taking that long to repair.
How do you not understand this?
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I like the ideas, though the luck one seems pretty bad, doubt anyone would want to use that.
I don't think Boon: Omniscience should trump undetectable though, that would hard counter stealth killers too much.
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I am enjoying the game at the moment. Both killer and survivor. Killer matches especially have been quite challenging, but fun.
I do agree that the game's state isn't anything fantastic though. The mmr is quite disappointing considering how long they seemingly worked on it. I still don't get how the current mmr is what they ended up with after like one or two years of preperation.
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I mean, do what you want to do, I don't think anyone really cares that much if you give them a pity kill or not.
If anything though, it might be better to not give him a pity kill to have his mmr adjust better to his actual skill level, though that would require the mmr to work better than it does, I would argue.
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I think so, yes, but we'll have to see. I was hoping the blessing action would take longer in general, but the nerfs we got seem good. The radius nerf in particular I think is a good thing.
Always keep the meta perks in mind that we already have. So if these perks become weaker then them, then survivors will just use the same meta perks they are already using, which are already very effective in matches.
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@Rhoska said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2552958#Comment_2552958
You really ought to re-read what I have said. I was very clear, succinct and factual in my posts.
You however, are operating off some "opinion" of your own, and in doing so, not answering nor refuting what I said.
Ok, again, you argued that looping is designed as a survivor advantage, and that 3 survivors are working on gens while the killer is chasing the forth survivor. Meaning for every second the killer spends in a chase, optimally, 3 seconds of the survivor objective is completed. That was your argument.
Hell, your post doesn't even mention gen times that determine if these 3 second in gen completion while the killer chases a survivor for one second are a problem or not.
And then you accused me of not playing killer and being biased, because I don't "understand" the imbalance.
And then I argued why I don't think this game is as unbalanced, with focus on your argument that it is. Especially arguing that the optimal situation for survivors, where one survivor is being chased and 3 are repairing gens, isn't the norm throughout the entire match if the killer can create pressure and keep their pressure up.
So I have no idea what you are on about. Your claims are nowhere more fatcual than mine.
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@JohnWeak said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2552967#Comment_2552967
So you are defending the tunneling mechanics ? For you it's fair and healthy for the game ?
Tunneling a survivor at every trial will make all survivors quit at one point. It's pretty boring to play when a survivor is tunneled to death and the others do nothing else but generators.
Survivors that perform greatly = gens are done in 5 minutes.
So, if you use tunneling and proxy camping to get your wins, it means the game is totally unbalanced. And if you don't do it you can't win. Just try it, no camp, no tunneling, do 10 trials and tell us how many you have won.
Have you even read my previous posts? No I do not think tunneling is good for the game, but at the moment something that can't be nerfed really considering the game's current state.
Of course I want the stressful killer gameplay when getting gen rushed and the painful survivor gameplay when getting camped and tunneled fixed, the game's balance is not optimal.
I was just arguing that the balance of the game isn't that bad.
And yes, my last 10 games with Nemesis have been pretty balanced, some won, some a draw, and some a loss. Without camping and tunneling. I am sure there was a bit of proxy camping if the remaining gen locations were all close to the hooked survivor though, or if I assumed survivors to be close to the hooked survivor.
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So there is no secret that this game still has a fair share of weak killers in this game. I know people complain about gen times, but with these killers the problems already start with themselves. Trapper is getting a buff luckily, though that probably won't make him meta.
Nemesis though is already fairly strong in my opinion, all he needs is his zombies fixed, and maybe addons buffed. But I have been playing with Nemesis quite a bit lately and am getting fairly good results. Even matches that I lost, I was able to do halfways well with Nemesis. In my experience, trying to defend only a part of map is effective with killers like Nemesis, that are powerful enough.
But to be fair, I am not quite sure what my MMR is. It shouldn't be low, but not sure if it's the soft cap of 1900. I'm not that good with killer.
There is no doubt that gens go very fast at high mmr though, so you shouldn't concern yourself too much about how you play, whether its fun for survivors or not. You just shouldn't go out of your way to ruin their fun.
It's the devs job to try and make this game more fun for both sides.
In my experience, gen defense perks are some of the best to use. Again, with stronger killers, gen defense is possible, it's not easy though. What I don't quite get though, if you struggle many times with gens and lose your matches, you should have your mmr lowered and then start going against survivors more fitting to your skill level, but sbmm just doesn't seem to work that well. For reasons that the devs already have admitted themselves, sadly.
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@JohnWeak said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2552924#Comment_2552924
Ye okay, then play High MMR and record a win where you didn't tunnel and without the nurse. Enjoy your 5 gens done, doors at 99% in 5 minutes.
God why do I still even try ro argue with cry babies that have the mental maturity of a 10 year old?
Also, again, when did I ever say that tunneling needs to be nerfed? Honestly what the hell?
I have played at rank 1 before SBMM was active for quite a while. I don't know my current MMR right now, it's probably not max, but it's surely not all that low either. And I do believe I have gone against pretty efficient teams already. But it's hard to tell how efficient they were, because again, because I don't know my MMR. I do understand that I am not a perfect killer though, and don't immediately blame the game for my losses.
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@Rhoska said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2552924#Comment_2552924
Nothing you said there refutes or contests what I said above.
Why then do you present it as somehow "different".
"Pressure" as I specifically stated, is all that which forces Survivors to do something else than Gens (which is their objective to win), whilst the Killers objective to win is to eliminate all the Survivors.
As I also said, the game is systemically skewed against the Killer, via many mechanics and the sheer fact of 1v4.
Either you misread what I said, or are contriving it for some ulterior motive.
What are you talking about? You said when a killer is in a chase, 3 other survivors are working on gens. So every second a killer spends in a chase, survivors objective is advanced by 3 seconds. Ok you did say at optimum, so admittediely I overread that.
Nevertheless, this is what you based your claim on that this game is survivor sided, claiming that I don't play killer because I don't have the same opinion than you have.
But I do play killer, and I don't agree that this game is so unbalanced anymore. And I argued why this is the case in my opinion, killers spreading damage, applying map pressure, and giving survivors more objectives by hooking survivors.
I have no idea why you are saying that I am contriving it for an ulterior motive. I am giving you arguments to explain my viewpoints, because people like you always seem to believe people like me don't play killer just because they don't have opinions as favored to killers as people like you have.
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@Withered8 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2552804#Comment_2552804
Yea i personalyl havn't had enough experinece against the 2 newest killers so i wasn't certain on where to put them. But yea i could see why he's B worthy.
My thought process regarding nemeis and pinhead has alot just been what do they offer that other killers don't and what makes them better or worse than said killer?
That's fair. Nemesis needs three hits to down survivors like the first 8 times you chase a survivor, other ranged killers don't have that. Not to mention that his range is very limited, unlike Huntress for example.
But on the other hand, his ability can be charged faster and you have more movement speed while holding your ability, which is why Nemesis has such good chances to hit survivors frequently despite survivors having a fair amount of counterplay against Nemesis. Not to mention that he does not allow for counterplay in certain situations where killers like Huntress do.
And then of course Nemesis has his zombies that help apply map pressure, though they still need to have their AI bugs fixed.
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@Rhoska said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2552819#Comment_2552819
Your bias is ridiculously blatant.
Looping is designed as a Survivor advantage past par, and its quadratic, because meanwhile 3 others do Gens.
Every second in looping by one Survivor, is at optimum combined 3s in Gen completion by the remainder.
You really should play Killer for a substantial part of time for you to understand what this status quo is.
God you people are so narrow minded if you think everyone who plays killer has to have the same, killer biased opinions.
I am a killer main, and that won't stop. Although I do try to play both sides pretty equally, but I do play killer just a bit more than survivor.
3 other survivors are doing gens at the start of the match, and only if you go for the first survivor you find. Not to mention that survivors don't always have the option to loop where no other survivors is working on a gen, especially if the survivors split up on 3 seperate gens.
And if a survivor is just holding w, the chances are even higher thart you will come along a gen that another survivor is wokring on.
And then, once you hook a survivor, you gain pressure, and if you are able to find a survivor until the other survivor is unhooked, and in many cases healed, only one other survivor is working on gens while you are chasing the third survivor.
Not to mention that killer gameplay isn't find a survivor, chase them, down them, find the next survivor, and repeat the same process. There is more to killer gameplay.
Again, I understand that DBD is still survivor sided at the highest level or play, but I don't think it's that bad anymore. You can definitely do faifrly well with the stronger killers.
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@JohnWeak said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2552819#Comment_2552819
Ye tell this to Otz, Lilith and other high skilled killers, if they don't proxy camp and tunnel they barely get 6 hooks.
You guys are all completely delusional. The first to come here and cry for tunneling but the one who state everyday that the game is balanced.
Killers are tunneling as they are forced to do it at a fairly high MMR.
And survivors that can't loop can still hold you in chase for 1 min holding W and preshooting some pallets.
A killer hit gives the survivor a boost. If the survivor hold W, the killer needs 20 seconds to catch up. Add 20 seconds to get the first hit, 2 early pallet drops and you are at about 1min10 seconds. The survivor did nothing special and you get only one hook. All 4 survivors doing this = 4 hooks, 5 minutes lost, all gens done.
If y ou think it's wrong, either you don't play killer, either you don't play at high MMR, gens are flying at that level, at a speed never seen before SBMM.
Immediate assumptions again just based on the fact that I don't think this game is as badly balanced. Sad.
And yes, I am a killer main, and I am currently maining Nemesis.
You do know that killers have abilities? Holding w and doing nothing else should not waste a minute of the killers time. Maybe against Nemesis when he takes 3 hits to down a survivor or M1 killers if you just chase the first survivor you find, but spreading damage is arguably better in that case.
Also, every time you hook a survivor, you are also creating a new objective for survivors. That slows gen progress down. Of course as killer you have to try and keep up pressure constantly.
Also, while I do think that camping and tunneling are a problem in this game, I do not complain that they should nerf those strategies, at least not proxy camping and perhaps also tunneling, in the current state of the game. If killers lower than A tier got buffs, and many of the maps would become more balanced, or if survivors got a second objective, than the devs would also have to look at camping and tunneling, and find ways to nerf those strategies.
I do understand that gens go fast, and that the game is survivor sided at the highest level of play, and that you sometimes just feel like you had no chance to win a match you just lost, but I also don't think it's that bad anymore. I definitely notice that pretty much every match I lose, I get outplayed or make certain mistakes. Now, I don't think that the distribution of outplays needed or mistakes allowed on both sides is equal, killer is certainly more punishing, but again, I also don't think it's that bad anymore, and if you play one of the stronger killers, you definitely can do well as killer on average as well.
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Yup the survivor vs killer mentality gets out of hand often.
I'm personally enjoying the game a lot at the moment again, but it isn't the most varied game, so I also need to take some breaks from this game time and time again.
But the new patch is also definitely looking interesting, perhaps adding a few new perks to the meta. I really hope they continue with these updtes because it would certainly help make this game feel stale less frequently.
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@JohnWeak said:
Use the perk : "do not play killer"
You cannot counter a SWF, no matter how good you play and no matter the perks you use. They will outplay you 90% of the time. And for this they don't even need to be good in chases.
That's what is funny in DbD today. You just need communication and to do gens solo to get the 3 escapes.
Looping ? 90% of the survivors are trash at it, they just hold W and pre-drop pallets and as there are 15 pallets + 3 windows + 1 semi-infinite + the shack + boost perk + boost after the first hit + fast medkit healing, it's enough for the team to be able to do 10 generators.
If survivors suck at looping, you should be able to down survivors very easily, and thus they won't be able to just rush gens for long.
There is a fair amount of killers that can indeed deal with swf survivor teams, even if the chances of winning aren't as high as as the chances of the swf team winning. Unless you are playing on one of the sadly numerous survivor sided maps of course.
And no, it's not enough for them to do 10 gens. If an swf team could actually complete 10 gens agaist a killer, that killer just wasn't good at all.
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Doctor is B tier in my opinion. The same goes for Nemesis, he is pretty decent. Once his zombies get fixed, if that ever happens, he'd be arguably high B tier, and with addon buffs, maybe even low A tier. He might need 3 hits to down a survivor with his ability, but his ability is pretty damn strong, and while he has fair counterplay, his counterplay on the survivor side is fairly difficult, and arguably a bit more limited than with a lot of other killers.