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@DredgeyEdgey said:
There's literally a new perk to add 30 ish seconds on a cool down
Great, another perk bandaid fix. I see the perk variety will really increase.
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@Seraphor said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3122680#Comment_3122680
All the gens are repaired, which means the killer has no other objectives to defend except the hooked survivor. This end game camping is the most commonly accepted 'valid' use of camping, basically 'anything goes' at endgame, it's completely fair.
But there's also many situations in which 'camping' as would be possible for the game to detect, is in fact cause by survivors:
Survivors who run straight towards the hook after you've hooked a survivor. You have no choice but to go for them, they just jumped right in front of you.
You're chasing a survivor, and they run you back to the hook, what are you supposed to do? Leave them alone to get the unhook?
Survivors looping you around the hook. One of the stupidest things a survivor can do, but they still do it.
Two survivors flanking you, getting ready to go for the unhook, as you're hooking. You've seen both of them, you know they're not on gens, you have no reason to leave the hook. They've basically forced you into a camping position.
Have you even read my suggestions? Or any of my comment at all? I haven't even suggested a mechanic that detects when the killers is close to a hooked survivor. Simply increasing the hook phase duration to 70 seconds and removing hook grabs would be a nice start.
And it wouldn't be affected by any of those scenarios. It would simply give survivors a bit more time to unhook, which nerfs camping. And it would be fine because killers already received a bunch of buffs that would compensate for longer hook phases.
I even mentioned that last scenario with survivors swarming the hooked survivor. And in fact, in every scenario you mentioned here, you can just go for the survivors that are going for the unhook. Especially if a survivor is throwing themselves in front of you, you just injure them, they unhook, and you down the survivors that unhooked instead.
And if you are getting looped close to a hooked survivor for ages, that's a you problem.
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@BrokenSouI said:
Maybe because they don't need to be ?
Yeah they do. Unless you enjoy your killer queue times.
It's insane to me how some people think it's fine for killers to get a bunch of baseline buffs, but survivors shouldn't even get anything against the cheap and insanely unfun strategies that are camping and tunneling. These strategies are so ridiculous, and so unfun for survivor, they need to be addressed.
Unless, again, you want those juicy killer queue times.
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Pretty exaggerated post to be honest. If you play against a good survivor team, you are still in for quite the challenge. It's just a bit fairer now.
The problem isn't the buffs to killers, but the lack of compensation buffs to survivors. Mainly against camping and tunneling. Those are the strategies that really need to be addressed, now that they can be addressed with killer having gotten a bunch of baseline buffs.
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@Seraphor said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3122669#Comment_3122669
They have to be really careful with basekit changes that change the functionality of the game. Anything that prevents camping in extreme cases also prevents camping in valid situations. There's really not much they could do, besides removing hook grabs, which is a pretty drastic move but would limit campers to a hook trade instead of a double hook.
What are valid situations for camping though? Any valid situation I can think of wouldn't really be affected too much by increasing the hook phase duration from 60 to 70 seconds, and removing hook grabs. If survivors are swarming a hooked survivor, that means they are not on gens, which already now take 10 seconds longer to complete. And you can just go for survivors swarming hooks and still do lots of damage.
There are easy baseline changes that would not be problematic what so ever, now that killers have been buffed.
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@dspaceman20 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3122665#Comment_3122665
I'm sorta on the fence about this. Instead of coming up with basekit options like they were supposed to they are having perks fix the problem instead.
Every new change has made perks solve the issues instead.
Exactly. That's exactly what they did with killer when they got their buffs, making them a little less dependent on perks. And now they are doing exactly the opposite with survivors again.
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@Seraphor said:
Reassurance is a better version of Kinship that could actually be meta. If the killer is hard camping you can extend a hook state by 3 minutes.
Another thing I am worried about. Please do not let this one perk be the BHVR's anweser to camping. Camping and tunneling shouldn't only be manageable by survivors when using certain perks.
We need basekit measures that properly help with tunneling and camping. 10 second haste and endurance effect, increasing each hook phase duration from 60 to 70 seconds, and removing hook grabs, would be such important changes, and I can't see those changes taking too long to work on.
And then further perks can help counter camping and tunneling more effectively, that's fine. But they shouldn't be the solution for terrible strategies. I thought the devs wanted more perk variety? That's certainly not working out yet.
It's getting so tiresome to still see no proper nerfs to camping and tunneling after so many years, even now that killers were buffed.
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I completely understand anyone who doesn't want to play survivor anymore until camping and tunneling get addressed. It's so ridiculous that it still hasn't happened yet, despite all the buffs that killers got.
A shame really cause it doesn't help killer queue times, and those queue times are really dampening my excitement about playing Wesker.
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@FrostyEyesSusie said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3122602#Comment_3122602
If you're talking about tunneling gens, then yeah, it doesn't take skill. But OP made it clear he was refering to killers tunneling survivors, which does take as much skill as any other chase, specially now with built-in BT and OTR. With teammates body-blocking, BT and OTR there's more than enough time for the tunneled survivor to run to the next safe loop, then to the next, and the next, until the killer had to waste a full gen or two assuming the teammates were even slightly efficient and actually did their gens in the meantime. A gen per hook means an unavoidable loss for the killer, btw.
Lmao no tunneling doesn't take a lot of skill. Surely more than camping, but not that much. Especially if you are camping and tunneling. Those 5 second endurance and haste effects can be waited out so easily.
Playing killer normally, going for chases, and applying map pressure, that takes skill. Just going for one survivor as soon as they are off the hook doesn't take nearly as much skill. And "tunneling"" gens is not a counterargument. Yes, gens don't take skill, but in order to be able to do gens, survivors need to be skilled in chases, to buy their teammates time.
Survivors often don't get to safe loops anyways, and even the safe loops in this game aren't safe against killers with anti-loop abilities. M1 killers being weak is a completely seperate problem.
A gen per hook only happens at the start of the game. If you play well as killer, outplaying survivors, downing them fast, and apply proper map pressure, you will slow down gen progress properly to give you a fair chance at winning as killer. Of course that does depend on the killer you are playing, and the map you are playing on.
Killer queue times are still clearly longer than survivor queue times, it's in the interest of the devs to nerf camping and tunneling properly. Killers have been buffed in numerous ways to make them more viable without such cheap strategies.
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@FrostyEyesSusie said:
Why would someone do this? Create a thread pretending you actually play the other side just when you quite clearly don't?
How do you know that? Tunneling and camping really don't take a lot of skill, and are easy way outs for killers to win. These strategies need to be addressed.
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@Tsulan said:
Ah yes, just a normal day of people complaining how the game is to easy.
If it's a problem, people should be complaining about it. Hopefully BHVR wakes up to this problem at some point and actually addresses it.
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@GoodBoyKaru said:
We've heard your complaints, on both sides! Survivors feel that the basekit NG isn't long enough, and killers feel it is unfair during endgame. Therefore, we will be making the following changes to address both.
The effect of "Decisive Strike" is now basekit replacing the previous Endurance upon an unhook, however the stun lasts 5 seconds, and works off of both hook states. Equipping the perk "Decisive Strike" will prolong the 60 second timer by a further 50/55/60 seconds.
Naturally, this is still disabled by a conspicuous action.
A finger of the money paw closes ominously.
I know this is a joke, but I would love to see some form of basekit DS in the future.
I have no idea who in the right mind would complain about a 5 second BT basekit during endgame. That one has to be a joke as well, right?
The basekit endurance and haste duration obviously needs to be increased. And it needs to stay during endgame. Survivors should have at least a bit of a chance to get a 4 man escape as well.
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There are no doubt survivors that just give up at the slightest inconvenience. And it's laughable.
But telling people to get better won't help, especially because that is by far not the only problem. There is no getting better when going against a camping and tunneling killer. It's just 0 fun, period. Instead, camping and tunneling need to be nerfed, then killers will also have to learn to play better and not resort to camping and tunneling.
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@MikaelaWantsYourBoon said:
It is BHVR's fault, they have garbage matchmaking.
One game i am playing with great solo teammates. And we are playing good, fun match. And then other game i have Claud who is still using Self-Care. And then another game Nea is chasing killer for flashlight save, failing and dc'ing.
This matchmaking is garbage. That's why i am only enjoying with my friends when i play survivor.
But besides all of this, they buffed tunnelling and camping. Both strategies needs fair nerfs.
Pretty much sums up why killer queue times are a problem at the moment. Bad matchmaking, and then those pathetic strategies called camping and tunneling. And tunneling and camping have nothing to do with learning to get better. If anything, it's the killers that should learn to improve, so they don't have to fall back to cheap strategies like camping and tunneling.
I am praying to no end we'll see some nerfs to those strategies in the update coming to ptb today, but I don't have my hopes up very much.
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@Tsulan said:
Biggest issue the game had, was that it was balanced around casual surivor gameplay. Which made killer extremely stressful. Now the patch changed that a bit towards equalitly and survivors are freaking out how unfun the game is. Well newsflash, thats how killers felt for 5 years.
But instead of adapting, or "gitting gud" how survivors always preached when killers complained, they just give up on the smallest inconvenience. Which ruins the game for everyone else.
*claps slowly*
The people that don´t enjoy the game currently, should just take a break instead of sabotaging the game for everyone else.
That's not such great of a solution when you consider that killer queue times are already not in a good spot.
It really just isn't about survivors having to get better. The killer buffs were all great, but they caused some issues that really need to be fixed. Certain slowdown perks on top of 90 second gens just are a bit much for example.
Mots importantly though, camping and tunneling has just become even more effective, and insufferable to go against. That's one of DBD's biggest problems right now, that and maybe solo queue survivors in general not having a fair amount of information to work with.
Camping and tunneling need to be addressed as soon as possible, it's definitely not a problem about survivors not "getting good". Who the hell wants to play against camping and tunneling killers? No one really.
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I mean it's only 0,2 seconds shorter. I would argue it's the combo of both reduced cooldown and shorter sprint burst.
They probably just need to nerf STBFL from 5% to 4% per stack.
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@Sparks741420 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3102197#Comment_3102197
is that your way of saying they don't care? because it sure sounds like you're in agreement. As far as my community of friends.. almost 90% of the ppl I play with as survivor have quit.
If the vast majority of people were quitting, then killer queue times would be much longer. Killer queue times are already much longer if we had 50/50 player distribution.
Survivor is in a rough spot, they need help against camping and tunneling, and there are definitely people who have stopped playing survivor. But the vast majority is such an exaggeration. Killer qeue times would be like 40+ minute queue times if that were the case. You can also go check the steam charts to see that there is no good indication of the vast majority of players leaving the game.
The devs need to get as much constructive feedback as possible, so they see how much of a problem camping and tunneling is. But your kind of feedback isn't really helping your case i believe.
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I would honestly put pentimento and eruption at the top of s tier. Those are the two slowdown perks that I actually still think need to be nerfed.
Only one pentimento totem increases gen times to 128 seconds, which is nuts. I guess with eruption the main problem is that it hurts solo survivors more than swf.
I dont think i would put lethal pursuer, or undying in s tier. And maybe a few other perks. I guess PR makes sense, especially now that the pr and dms combo were readded.
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@Marigoria said:
There’s a difference between % on top of 80seconds vs 90seconds.
It’s always easy to see that difference when chases are shorter because killers got basekit buffs to chases and survivors got basekit chase nerfed.
What basekit chase nerfs did survivors get? The only one i can think of is the 0,2 second sprint burst reduction. Which really isn't a big deal.
I understand that survivor is in a rough spot, but chases aren't the problem in my opinion. The chase buffs definitely helped, but not that much. Survivors can still outrun killers fairly well if they play better than the killer. I guess the DH nerf is definitely noticeable.
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You shouldn't care, the devs should care and finally nerf such an unfun and skillless strategy.
I don't know any other online vs game that has such unhealthy, unfun and skillless strategies to be so effective like tunneling and camping are.
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@Fantasy said:
Why do you think you're entitled to a free escape out of the basement?
Because survivors want to enjoy the game as well.
Why should the killer be entitled to a free down just because he hooked the survivor in the basement?
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No gens are fine at 90 seconds. It was a much needed change for balance.
If anything, there are just certain slowdown perks that need to be toned down a bit.
Also, now more than ever, BHVR should instead nerf camping and tunneling, instead of nerfing killers back in general. Now that their basekit is buffed, BHVR could definitely nerf camping and tunneling in a proper way. I really hope that's what they'll do.
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@rvzrvzrvz said:
No good riddance, just play something else this perk was incredibly boring, I still played against 2 thana legions and it's still annoying, should be nerfed even harder
Well it should have been nerfed more on Legion and Plague, and less on all the other killers. Which is kind of what the suggestion of OP would do.
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@Pulsar said:
I'm not entirely sure why BHVR made this meta shake-up if they were just going to bring back Pain Res + DMS. Seems...counter-intuitive.
Likewise, while Artist isn't OP (definitely boring to face, holding W isn't fun for anyone) the Thana nerf really doesn't make sense. Was it annoying on Killers like Blight and Nurse? Sure. Who was it really oppressive on? Legion and Plague. The nerf doesn't affect them at all but makes the perk meme tier for every other Killer in the game.
The Mettle of Man nerf is pretty funny in a depressing sort of way. They should've just reduced the Protection hit requirement to 2 and left it alone from there.
I do feel like casual Survivor players are suffering a lot right now. The DS stun nerf needs to be reverted, for sure. Solo Q needs massive help and fast. I would like to see the basekit BT and Haste effect extended by a considerable amount.
I do think the amount of changes we got is a step in the right direction. The actual content of those changes and the lack of consideration towards Solo Q was not the right way to go.
Thana is definitely also nerfed for Plague and Legion, just not by as much as for other killers.
Otherwise I agree with everything here.
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You want all the killer buffs reverted, DH buffed, and perks like DS to not deactivate when progressing your objective?
Yeah good luck with that lol, never going to happen.
Also, why on earth would anyone want the baseline killer buffs reverted, instead of just nerfing tunneling and camping, the strategies that are by far the most annoying thing to deal with as survivor? That makes so little sense.
The devs need to nerf camping and tunneling, and the few slowdown perks that are too strong at the moment. Then I am positive queue times will go back to normal again. Survivors certainly don't need curtches like DH back. DS definitely should have it's 5 second stun back. And the PR and DMS combo also needs to go.
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@solidhex said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3111005#Comment_3111005
some of the "new" (except i think 1 they're all from other maps) ones are very unsafe, especially that strange one with the two 90 degree windows. I mean it's better than LT walls i guess
They are mindgameable, which is actually good. It's ok for killers to have counterplay at such tiles as well. Jungle Jyms for example have very little counterplay for killers, at least m1 killers.
Those window tiles are also the only new tiles that were added. There were a few other tiles added to macmillan that only existed in other map realms, one of them is a not so safe tile, but still allows for mindgames, and the other tile, introduced with the Yamaoka maps I believe, are actually very strong for survivors.
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@Anghroth said:
I'm really deeply sorry, you all can't abuse your stacking endurance anymore and actually have to make educated decisions, WHEN to take a hit. Especially in this endurance/bodyblocking meta, we have been in for the past few years, changes like this are more than welcome to anyone who actually cares about fair play.
But I do not expect any of the former perk/status effect abusers to fully understand that, of course :D
What? Nothing about Mettle of Man was overpowered in the slightest. You had to take 3 protection hits to get it activate. Now it's probably even weaker.
I also have no idea how we are in an endurance/bodyblock meta.
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@Seki said:
Also to mention : many tiles are also changed and makes juking not as easy as before
What tiles were changed to make juking not as easy?
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@EntitySpawn said:
It was a killer sided patch in terms of what the focus was, and killer was definitely buffed more.
But one patch of buffs doesnt suddenly make the game killer sided but as always people over react.
The people who always moan about killer will always moan about killer, the people struggling always struggled.
Too many people like to think they're gods gift but when they get beat it must be nerfed when in reality that person just isnt as good as they think they are and often doesnt understand what they're even complaining about.
I'll remain a survivor main till incentives or killers in a better spot at high level to where I dont have to play mega dirty and sweaty to just try get a draw
Meh when it comes to camping, tunneling, or sitting on gens for 130+ seconds, it doesn't really come down to not being good enough at all. If anything, camping and tunneling are easy ways out for killer players that aren't as good as they probably think they are.
Camping and tunneling surely still have to be nerfed, and a few slowdown perks need to be looked at as well.
Once that happens, queue times should go back to normal again, for everyone, and the player count will probably increase as well. Because then both killer and survivor has improved compared to before the patch, because both roles finally got their biggest frustrations addressed, at least to an extent.
Obviously buffing solo queue, buffing low tier killers, nerfing Blight and Nurse, taking a look at op addons and items, and rebalancing some more maps, also all need to happen to get this game in an extremely balanced state.
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I mean, I know that many people have complained about 10+ minute queue times before the patch. I personally haven't had that bad queues either, but that doesn't mean others don't.
Maybe the Thana nerf really did help, but I am sure some people are still struggling with longer queue times. My queue times yesterday, during the evening were like 2 minutes, which is still noticeably longer than before the patch. Because there they were instant during the evening.
So I am going to guess my queues would be around 5 to 7 minutes during the day.
But maybe the Thana nerf really did help? Or more people were just curious about the changes, so more people played survivor, and the better queue times will get worse again, who knows.
I just hope the devs nerf camping and tunneling some more, and a few op slowdown perks, and I would expect queue times to go back to normal, for everyone hopefully.
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I think Thana will very much still be strong on Plague, with Legion I am not sure. But you are right, the perks are nerfed even for those two. Even, or especially, during early game, before all 4 survivors are injured.
It's a shame they had to nerf Thana in a way that makes it useless on every killer but Plague and Legion, and only potentially viable on those two killers. But I still rather have it in it's current state than in it's ridiculous state it was before the patch.
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@Gorgonia said:
Today I finally had to admit it. They don't care.
I really don't think that's it. It's more that they are seemingly struggling to understand what balancing this game needs currently. Right now they need to reduce the power of strong slowdown perks a bit, now with 90 second gens being a thing, and not rebuff certain slowdown perks, or slowdown perk combos. But they seem to not get the hang out of during this correctly. I am sure they understand this, but somehow they are underestimating the power of certain slowdown perks, or in this case, a slowdown perk combo.
If they didn't care, we wouldn't even have gotten balance changes to 3 perks in a hotfix. I mean, I can't remeber when they ever made such balance changes within a hotfix before in DBD.
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Couldn't agree more. They need to revert the changes to PR and DMS asap in my opinion.
This really is one of the biggest problems with DBD right now though. Gens increased to 90 seconds was done so killers would be less dependent on slowdown perks, taking some of the power of slowdown perks and adding it to the game's basekit. But sadly they only did this with the meta slowdown perks. And now we are stuck with other slowdown perks that are also just too much with the increased gen times, especially Eruption and Pentimento, and maybe Gift of Pain a bit as well. Thana at least got nerfed now.
And now they readded the PR and DMS combo, which was probably the most powerful slowdown combo that existed before the patch. It's quite mind boggling. I hope they realise this fast enough and remove that combo again.
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@TotemSeeker91 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3109881#Comment_3109881
Thana got indirectly buffed, the perk itself is fine with the extra 2%, it's BHVRs fault for adding 10 extra seconds
Wait, wait, so you actually want the devs to decrease gens to 80 seconds again, and then keep perks like thana pre patch as strong as they are?
How does that make any sense? Then you just makes killers way too dependent on slowdown perks again. Dude that just messes with my brain right now.
Why wouldn't you want to add some of the power that slowdown perks has to the basekit, and weaken the slowdown perks? That's how you actually achieve some more perk variety. That's also exactly what the devs wanted to achieve, so of course they are not going to revert the gen times and then the Thana nerf.
Let's say there are two version of DBD, one with 80 second gens, and one with 90 second gens. And then two version of Thana, both increasing gen times to the exact same amount. So no matter if looking at the version with 80 second, or that with 90 second gens, Thana would increase the gen times to the same amount.
Would you actually prefer the version of DBD that has 80 seconds of gens, which means gens can go even faster without slowdown perks, but with slowdown perks like Thana gens are the same as the version with 90 seconds? That makes no sense to me, because that just means slowdown perks are by far the most viable, and potentially only viable picks. It would make killers just much more dependent on slowdown perks, because with them, gens would be slowed down to a noticeable amount of time, but without slowdown perks, gens would go too fast.
Meanwhile, in the version with 90 second gens, people are more incentived to pick other perks besides slowdown perks as well.
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@EternalSinOfCain said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3109650#Comment_3109650
The only "Valid Complaints" Survivors have right now is about all the Survivors who are rage quitting and suiciding on hook. Everything else is just whining they can't bully like the used to. I play solo Survivor 90% of the time, and I've pulled off insane plays that would make SWF groups blush. I've faced "Forever Plague and Legion". The only times those went bad is when others quit, at the very least all 5 gens got done. Usually at least 2 escape. I've never used the old meta and currently use Flash Bang, Lightweight, We'll Make It, and Iron Will. I'm Gold 1 Survivor and on my way to Irri Survivor.
Camping and tunneling is nothing more than Survivors complaining about "MAH 1v1"!!! This is a 1v4, not a 1v1 FOUR TIMES OVER. It's not like the other Survivors magically stop repairing gens while the killer is chasing someone. If someone gets screwed, then that sucks for them. Deal with it. Waste as much time as you can, and take solace in the fact you lasted enough to get 2-3 gens done for them. Survivors are already fighting back pretty easy with stacking in Leader and Prove Thyself. Not tot mention they could bring tool boxes for even faster Gens.
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/M0U2HLIAACUQ/gen-rush.png
This match lasted a total of 4:30 seconds. So you can guess what'll happen when Survivors get even more buffs. Not to mention if the developers nerf slow downs even more. This only had ONE Prove Thyself too. They wouldn't even need the BNP and tool boxes if they had more. Survivors have a PLETHORA if ways to fight back against slowdown perks on Killer. That they don't use them is their problem, not the Killers. It's also not on the developers to coddle them either.
So yes, this is about Survivors wanting to bully. They don't want to bring speed up perks like We'll Make It to speed up heals. They don't want to bring Prove Thyself and Leader. They want to stack in Endurance and 2nd chance perks. They are equivalent of slow down perks for Survivor, by extending chases. Bonus that they can shove it in the Killers face that they can't be taken down and hooked quickly. It's about being defiant, and "bullying the power role."
I'm sick and tried of Survivors using the "That's not fun" doing the gens and getting out. It's SURVIVOR, not "HERO" where you get to fight back. If Survivors can't figure out to fight back slow down with speed up perks, (and items too), then that's ON THEM.
Survivors can still EASILY break the Killers "Slow Down" meta with Speed Up perks and items. They just don't WANT TO. They WANT to bully killers. Many WANT to be toxic while bullying killers with 2nd chance perk stacking. Stop coddling Survivors because they decided to shoot themselves in the foot.
No it isn't, it just isn't. Honestly I don't even know what you are getting out of deluding yourself with this crap. Does it makes the killer queue times more sufferable for you?
BHVR will need to buff survivors against camping and tunneling. These strategies are way too effective for how unfun they are to go against, and how little skill they take. I do not know any other online vs game that has such cheap and skillless strategies be so effective.
Your post is honestly just insane. I can not believe you are serious lmao. This is almost hilarious.
You probably, unironically blame survivor players for your long queue times. Wanting them to queue up so you can have your fun, not caring whether survivors have fun or not. Which is ironic, since that's exactly what people like you would argue against when it comes to tunneling, that killers aren't there to entertain survivors.
And no, having to use gen speed perks to somehow have a chance to get gens finished is not good balance. Survivors shouldn't be dependent on certain perks. Not to mention that leaves less room for anti-tunneling and anti-camping perks, which survivors also get told to just run.
Maybe you are enjoying those killer queue times? But if not, to balance them out again, survivors will need buffs. And I am sure queue times will get even worse with the new chapter releasing, if nothing is done in that chapter update. Even if you do enjoy these queue times, many don't. And BHVR ignoring all the problems this game has currently is not a good idea on their part.
I also love how you bring up the endurance stacking, which was addressed when the patch went live. Luckily, but people were also complaining about slowdown perks stacking too much, and nothing got done about that. If survivors are using endurance perks, it's to help them against tunneling. Which they absolutely need, because the 5 second endurance and haste effect are not effective. Very few also use it to bodyblock, but in that case, you can just go for them again, if they force a bodyblock. Not to mention you should be discouraged to stay at hooked survivors anyways. Bodyblocking is also nothing toxic, I really hope you know that.
You thinking the majority of survivor players are just bully squads is one of the most delusional things I have ever read on these forums. And luckily, the devs don't think that as well. Who knows how long it will take, and whether they will make good changes, but I am positive at some point they will give survivors some help as well. Now that killers got a bunch of baseline buffs, survivors need some compensation, especially in form of nerfing camping and tunneling. People like you not approving of this won't matter in that case, especially someone who actually believes most survivor players just want to be able to bully the killer.
You are probably just not as good as you think you are.
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@Adjatha said:
Nobody but Legion and Plague used it when it was 20% because Circle of Healing
They buffed it 10%.
Survivors complained that going from 20% to 22% was unbearable and made games magically take 20 minutes instead of the 4 minutes they're used to.
They then removed the 10% but ALSO nerfed it by 60%, required all 4 to be injured just to get back to the pre-buff level, AND built in a "the perk shuts off" mechanic on top of everything else.
All that because they buffed it to try to get more killers to use it in the first place.
There really is no one at the tiller.
They nerfed Thana in the wrong way, but it needed a nerf. Certain slowdown perks being too strong and camping and tunneling still being so effective are the reasons why killers have to wait in queue for so long currently.
I've already wrote this in another post to explain why Thana was much more of a problem than the 2% buff claim would make it sound like it was, so I am just going to post it here as well:
Before the patch we had the values 5/10/15/20 % slowdown, and 80 second gens, here are the gen times for every Thana value:
5%: 84,2 seconds
10%: 88,8 seconds
15%: 94,11 seconds
20%: 100 seconds
Now the former buffed Thana of 5,5/11/16,5/22 % with 90 second gens:
5,5%: 95,2 seconds
11%: 101,1 seconds
16,5%:107,8 seconds
22%: 115,4 seconds
So even with only 2 survivors injured, gens already took longer than before the update with all four survivors being injured.
The point of increasing gen times was to take some of the power that slowdown perks had, and add it to the basekit of killers, so they'd be less dependent on slowdown perks. Even if Thana would have stayed at 5%, it would have still made gens take noticeably longer than before the update, because of gens taking 90 seconds now. In case of Thana, they made gens at base more slower, but then they also added even more slowdown potential to Thana as well, instead of taking a bit of that additonal slowdown of Thana away, which they should have done to begin with.
That's also why Pentimento is quite the problem at the moment, and maybe even Gift of Pain, which would be more balanced at 14 or 12 %.
Lets say Thana had fixed values of 6/9/12/15 % for every injured, downed or hooked survivor. That would lead to the following:
6%: 95,7 seconds
9%: 98,9 seconds
12%: 102,3 seconds
15%: 105,9 seconds
So as you can see, gens with Thana would still take noticeably longer than before the patch, especially with only 1 or 2 survivors injured,without being crazy strong. Only that some of that potential power and slowdown, is now actually located in the baseline gen times, which are now 90 seconds.
That was the point of the big update, why gens got increased by 10 seconds, and why meta slowdown perks got nerfed. BHVR just didn't realise that other slowdown perks would become problematic like this as well.
The Thana we have now is much better. It's not as much of a problem anymore, but the way it was nerfed was far from ideal. With fixed values like I suggested, it would be much more consistent on all killers. Still fairly good on every other killer, but not too oppressive on Legion and Plague.
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@TotemSeeker91 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3109768#Comment_3109768
... it was 2 extra percentage before it became meta, I don't think thana is the problem
It is a problem when you actually take a look at gen times, with this perk equipped, before and after the patch.
Before the patch we had the values 5/10/15/20 % slowdown, and 80 second gens:
- 5%: 84,2 seconds
- 10%: 88,8 seconds
- 15%: 94,11 seconds
- 20%: 100 seconds
Now the former buffed Thana of 5,5/11/16,5/22 % with 90 second gens:
- 5,5%: 95,2 seconds
- 11%: 101,1 seconds
- 16,5%:107,8 seconds
- 22%: 115,4 seconds
So even with only 2 survivors injured, gens already took longer than before the update with all four survivors being injured.
The point of increasing gen times was to take some of the power that slowdown perks had, and add it to the basekit of killers, so they'd be less dependent on slowdown perks. Even if Thana would have stayed at 5%, it would have still made gens take noticeably longer than before the update, because of gens taking 90 seconds now. In case of Thana, they made gens at base more slower, but then they also added even more slowdown potential to Thana as well, instead of taking a bit of that additonal slowdown of Thana away, which they should have done to begin with.
That's also why Pentimento is quite the problem at the moment, and maybe even Gift of Pain, which would be more balanced at 14 or 12 %.
Lets say Thana had fixed values of 6/9/12/15 % for every injured, downed or hooked survivor. That would lead to the following:
- 6%: 95,7 seconds
- 9%: 98,9 seconds
- 12%: 102,3 seconds
- 15%: 105,9 seconds
So as you can see, gens with Thana would still take noticeably longer than before the patch, especially with only 1 or 2 survivors injured,without being crazy strong. Only that some of that potential power and slowdown, is now actually located in the baseline gen times, which are now 90 seconds.
That was the point of the big update, why gens got increased by 10 seconds, and why meta slowdown perks got nerfed. BHVR just didn't realise that other slowdown perks would become problematic like this as well.
The Thana we have now is much better. It's not as much of a problem anymore, but the way it was nerfed was far from ideal. With fixed values like I suggested, it would be much more consistent on all killers. Still fairly good on every other killer, but not too oppressive on Legion and Plague.
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I really hope they also change at least some of the layout of the map. This map only being half in size I fear will make it insufferable for survivors. At least i don't know how they would want to win on that match if the map is now only half the size, with no other changes.
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The Pain Resonance change was bad, I have absolutely no clue why they didn't just fix Merciless Storm by having it deactivate when the gen regresses by any means. If they weren't able to do so, than that just supports the spaghetti code claim big time.
Hopefully they will revert that change. The nerf to Thana however shouldn't be reverted. I would much rather have Thana changed to have some fixed values, like 6/9/12/15 % for every injured, downed or hooked survivor. But this nerfed Thana is better than before at least, which was ridiculous.
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They should have to play a near perfect game if the survivors they are going against are also playing extremely well.
If not, then it should just depend on who plays better. And if the killer clealry plays better, they should be rewarded with a win, a 3 or 4k.
And to be fair, the baseline buffs to killers really helped with this. Killers now have more time at base to deal with their own objective, having a fairer chance at winning if they play better than the survivor team. If playing fairly, their objective can take a bit, so gens being 90 seconds was very good change.
The biggest problem is that tunneling and camping also remained just as effective, or were even buffed, with this patch. So killers also have an insanely easy way out to win, that takes very little skill. That and certain slowdown perks just being too strong in combination with 90 second gens are the problem with this game's balance right now.
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@Laluzi said:
The worst thing is, it's still painfully strong on Plague and Legion. They didn't just nerf Thana to death, they nerfed it to death except on the killers who needed a Thana nerf.
I can't understand the reasoning behind this change at all.
I am really not sure if it's still going to be a problem on those two killers though. It got nerfed for them less than for all other killers, but it still won't be as strong on them either. Whether it's enough or not I do not know.
But I feel like it's going to be good but not op anymore on those two killers and useless on every other killer. Which is definitely not the ideal way to nerf Thana. But I'd rather have it nerfed like this than not at all.
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@Sparks741420 said:
gotta love it when killers openly admit that they have to "play down" the killers role.. clearly the basekit is op af if soo many killers need to down play.
How is it the basekit? The basekit buffs aren't the problem. Its the fact that some slowdown perks just became too strong in combination with 90 second gens. Especially those that added action speed debuffs that were percentage based. Pentimento and eruption are now the biggest problems in my opinion.
That and the lack of camping and tunneling nerfs, and perhaps solo queue information buffs, are the real problem. Revert baseline killer buffs, and we are just at square 1 again. Killers being more dependent on slowdown perks, and camping and tunneling not getting nerfed properly. Instead, Bhvr needs to move on further, so that both sides are better to play than before the patch.
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@EternalSinOfCain said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3109284#Comment_3109284
Translation : They'll have to give us our bully squad capabilities back if they want stable Survivor player base.
What the hell are you talking about? Please tell me you are kidding.
This is about making the survivor role more fun for more people again. Not about letting bully squads have their full bully potential again, which is just ridiculous. It's completely delusional to think that's why so many people are fed up with survivors, and that's why killer queue times are so high. Because all the bully squads aren't playing anymore. Hello? Do you purposefully just ignore all the valid complaints about too much slowdown as well as camping and tunneling?
You shouldn't need gens to take pretty much 130 seconds in order to win, and that is without camping and tunneling. Even worse with those strategies. Needing such slowdown indicates that you probably aren't that good in the game. If you are getting bullied too otfen, then matchmaking is just screwing you over, putting you against people that are better than you at the game.
If you want to see good queues for killers again, camping, tunneling, and at the very least Pentimento and Eruption will need to be nerfed. Maybe Gift of Pain as well, but the latter only a little bit. Like 12% or 14% instead of 16%. And there needs to be a cap for how much action speed debuff and buff effects can stack.
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For me, thats actually one of the reasons he is one of the most fun killers to go against. Just in general i really enjoy going against him.
I just wish there wasn't a vignette effect during nightfall, it just seems annoying, and i fear its the main reason why some people can't see anything sometimes.
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@egg_ said:
Considering how disastrous the Nemesis chapter was, not at all. Boring yet-another-hold-w-anti-loop-killer, the worst map ever released in this game by far under every possible aspect, optimization that went from bad to terrible, who has more?
I've always really liked nemesis. Definitely some strong anti-loop, but it definitely has decent counterplay, so hes also fun to go against in my opinion.
Killers without any anti-loop just don't seem to work, they are always too weak. So I hope the new killer will have some good anti-loop, but one that allows for good counterplay on the survivor side as well.
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I am partially excited, but would be much more if the game's balance wasn't as messy as it is right now.
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How is it overreacting when there has been non stop complaints about certain slow down perks as well as camping and tunneling for a month now? Or when we have very long killer queue times?
If anything, this is an underreaction, they will need to do more if they want to see more stable queue times, which would be great for when the new chapter releases.
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I think we need to wait and see if it will still be a problem on Legion and Plague. Cause as soon as only one survivor is healed, it has very little impact. It's definitely nerfed on those two killers as well, just not nearly as much as for all the other killers.
It's pretty much useless on every other killer now though, that's for sure.
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@Hoodied said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3107856#Comment_3107856
Pentimento??? Do you not remember where you cleansed your totems at?
It's certainly easier to deal with for swf survivors than for solo survivors. Which already makes the perk a bit problematic.
Yes, I do remember where I cleansed my totems. But increasing a gen from 90 seconds to 128 seconds is beyond ridiculous. It's too strong, definitely.