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ad19970
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@Laluzi said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3147799#Comment_3147799
The thing I'm upset about with Reassurance is that you previously could use it to stop a facecamping Bubba in his tracks. Now he's still going to get at least one kill out of it halfway through the game, and probably more considering that you need to keep running back to his lair between gens. Previously with Reassurance, he got the kill at the very end but couldn't accomplish anything else through the entire match as long as one person had the perk, which ideally would have made the strat much less attractive and discouraged people from playing like that.
It's not useless, but it's not a hard counter like it was previously. It was not necessary to nerf Reassurance this hard in order to fix the problematic part of it.
I do agree with that. It's still going to be a strong perk, but there was no reason to nerf it's effectiveness from the ptb.
Though, I have to ask, did you ever use this perk against a camping bubba in the ptb? And if so, effectively? Because I feel like the very limited range will make it kind of hard to proc against a Leatherface, as he'll just insta down you with his chainsaw. Which is one of the reasons I wish they would have increased the range of Reassurance to 12 or 16 meters as a compensation buff.
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I am very much hoping that BT will add another 10 seconds, so it ends up being 20 seconds. Otherwise I don't think that perk will be used a lot anymore at all. It's just nice people won't depend on BT as much anymore.
Reassurance will still be good as well, I am pretty positive. The nerf was just completely unnecessary, and sadly, it didn't get any compensation buffs either. So I am definitely disappointed by the nerf as well, even though it will still be a decent perk.
But to be fair, I want them to address camping at basekit anyways. They have now done this with tunneling, which is fantastic, so I hope the same will happen with camping soon as well. Doesn't need to be crazy changes, just enough to give survivors a fairer chance at fighting back and winning against a camping killer.
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Nothing about this is problematic. Just don't tunnel, that's all there is. The basekit endurance and haste as well as perks like Guardian have the sole purpose of helping survivors counter tunneling. There doesn't need to be another requirement than unhooking a survivor, because all it does is help the survivor to not get tunneled. Easy as that.
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The reduced hit box size is a nerf, obviously. Survivors have a better chance at dodging his dash. But as you said, that's actually a good thing, considering it will increase Wesker's skill cap.
All the other changes are buffs though. And from what I have seen, most people agree. Only few people seem to actually believe Wesker is being nerfed. Which, yes, is pretty ridiculous.
None of the buffs are going to make a big impact, but they don't need to. He was already decent on the ptb. He'll just mainly feel even better to play as now. And I can't wait to play against him either. While he'll be a bit stronger at loops now, no doubt, he will also be a bit more dodgeable. And he will surely still have very fair counterplay thanks to his long charge time, and not being able to injure survivors over vaults or objects.
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@Cameragosha said:
Now DBD come back to survivor sided again.
Devs reverse MoM nerf but not reverse thanatophobia nerf.
Old thana should return.
No idea how those perks even compare. MoM is still mainly just going to be a meme perk. Thana coupled with 90 second gens was just op. It definitely does not need to be reverted in any way or form.
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The nerf to tunneling is fantastic. But it doesn't affect camping a lot. We just need a few more nerfs to camping, nothing crazy, and then the game will be in the best state it's ever been.
My suggestions are still simply increasing the hook phase duration from 60 to 70 seconds, and removing hook grabs. This would not nerf killers in a particularly significant way, or in any real way, honestly, as long as the killer doesn't actually camp, it would just give survivors a better and fairer fighting chance against camping killers, which something survivors still need. Camping is just still too effective at the moment, considering how little skill it takes, and considering the fact that killers received a bunch of baseline buffs not long ago.
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@MikaelaWantsYourBoon said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3148113#Comment_3148113
Yeah, i am sure it is strong perk. Killer main who is rarely playing survivor calling a perk balanced lol.
Sure, it is balanced. You can keep camping without punishment. And you can hit survivor on hooks, i know you love that.
It definitely still will be a good perk. Even just using it once on a hooked survivor is definitely impactful.
It just didn't need the nerf to begin with, and it's a shame it is getting nerfed. Or that they didn't increase the perk's range to 12 or 16 meters as compensation. Then I probably would be fine with the nerf.
To be fair, we should want BHVR to nerf camping at base anyways, and not just with a perk. I am beyond happy that they are at least buffing the anti-tunnel mechanic. This definitely also makes me hopeful that they continue to listen to their community, and hopefully nerf camping in the future as well. Doesn't need to be huge nerfs, so they don't hurt killers too much. But just some decent camping nerfs would go a long way.
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@BrokenSouI said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3148263#Comment_3148263
Solo que is always a wasteland. Maybe try finding some people to play with. It's not that hard of a concept. You want to have a good time playing survivor ? Find like minded people.
Solo que is not a good gauge for strength of a perk. They made a right decision on it. Especially from a balance perspective.
There isn't anything they can add that isn't game breaking. That would help BAD solo que team mates.
You're kidding right now, or? Your suggestion is for people to just play with friends? Please tell me I am misunderstanding you.
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@BrokenSouI said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3148194#Comment_3148194
The don't run it 4head. It's as simple as that. There's no reason for it to be used multiple times per hook state. It was a good change.
You like to claim you play 50/50. Yet you seem to view the game through some survivor sided tinted glasses. I guess that's the difference between us. I at least try to look at the game from both sides. I willingly admit when something is broken on either side. You don't seem to.
And for the record. I play survivor every night. 🤷 So believe whatever you want. My opinions come from a place of balance on either side.
Really? Because I constantly see you defending camping and tunneling. So one could just as easily assume that you don't play a lot of survivor, or you'd be more sympathetic about how problematic and unfun camping and tunneling are.
I do agree with you on one thing. This perk is far from weak now. It will still surely make a good impact against camping and tunneling killers. It's to be expected that some people would overreact to this nerf.
But at the same time, the nerf was completely unnecessary. It should be even more effective considering it only counters the cheapest tactic in the game, which is camping.
I wouldn't even mind the nerf if the range would have gotten buffed to 12 or maybe even 16 meters or so. Cause then you at least wouldn't have to almost throw yourself in front of the camping killer in order to pause the hook phase timer. There is no reason killers should ever get rewarded for camping and tunneling.
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@ThatOneDemoPlayer said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3148292#Comment_3148292
The whole point of 6.1.0 was to change the meta and "herd" Killers into playing "nicer".
The problem with that is that they nerfed basically all the Perks that incentivized leaving the Hook/going for multiple Hooks, while buffing Perks that enforced 3-Genning, camping and tunneling
What the hell are you on about? The meta perks got nerfed, but killers got a bunch of baseline buffs that were more impactful. Killers are now less reliant on camping and tunneling than ever. The reason too many still use those tactics is because they are still very strong, but take much less effort than playing normally, which is why they need to be nerfed.
The 6.1.0 update was not a failure, but it also wasn't a success. But the main reason that it wasn't a succes is because survivors didn't get the same treatement as killers got when it came to nerfing camping and tunneling. Killers now have a more varied meta actually. Just that certain slowdown perks are still very strong. But survivors meta really didn't change much.
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@Cameragosha said:
They not buff or fix him , wesker still weak not have anti-loop.
Now they still make him even weaker.
Just in case you are not trolling, you'll just have to let this one go I am afraid. There are people that already have done well with him, and figured out how to play him in the ptb. He is certainly going to be strong in the right hands, and he will not need any further buffs, I am pretty positive of that.
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Please tell me this is a joke. This is so ridiculous honestly.
The nerf was unnecessary, but it still is going to be good. And surely not a killer perk lmao, buying your team 30 seconds more is definitely strong.
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@Aven_Fallen said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3147571#Comment_3147571
The thing is, if only I am running it (which I have to assume since there is no way knowing the Perks of the other Survivors unless you are in an SWF), it would be more beneficial to stick to the Gen I am working on instead of going next to the Hook and use the Perk to prolong the Hook State.
The time I am not on a Gen to activate the Perk will be more hurtful to the Team than it can be beneficial to prolong the Hook Stage of the camped Survivor.
No definitely not, not in my opinion.
I guess it does depend on your team, which is where we cricle right back to classic solo queue problems, especially bad teammates, but also the lack of information that solo survivors sometimes have. But me not being on a gen is definitely worth it if it means the survivor can survive another 30 seconds on a hook, because that also gives my two team mates both an extra 30 seconds to repair on gens.
And then, at the end, if no other survivor has gone for the save, I will just try and sacrifice myself. So mathematically, it will definitely be worth it. Unless maybe I am at the other side of the map. I just think it's such a shame it got nerfed at all, and in the wrong way. I wouldn't mind the nerf if they would have increased the range to 12 or even 16 or 18 meters though, but as it stands, the nerf was just completely unnecessary.
But to be fair, this update is adding so many good changes, that I can't get too mad at it. I was really mad at first, but after seeing all the fantastic changes to Wesker, and him not getting overbuffed, which I was a bit scared about after seeing all the ridiculous buff suggestions on these forums, and the anti-tunneling mechanic being buffed, I am generally pretty damn happy with this update.
Though I 100% still want baseline camping nerfs. As happy as I am about the buff to the anti-tunneling mechanic, which is even more than I excpected and hoped for, hook phase duration still needs to be inrceased to 70 seconds, and hook grabs need to be removed. Those nerfs would really help survivors deal with the crappy tactic that camping is in a proper and fair way, and it wouldn't nerf killers too hard in any way either. 70 seconds surely wouldn't be enough to free survivors from too much pressure to unhook. But that plus the removal of hook grabs would definitely help survivors with countering camping. Then the nerf to Reassurance wouldn't bug me nearly as much either.
If BHVR simply did that, DBD would actually be in the best state it's ever been, in my opinion. Killers would be viably in a fair way when playing normally, but camping and tunneling wouldn't be as viable anymore, and survivors would have a better chance at winning against those strategies. And the buff to the anti-tunneling mechanic really shows that BHVR is listening, and interested in balancing this game properly.
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@Dead_Harder said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3147791#Comment_3147791
Im thinking about unironically using claustrophobia on him. + obviously sloppy. Just dunno what to pair it with.
My instinct says lethal and floods of rage but thats just the nurse main in me talking
Understandable, but I really hope BHVR keeps a close eye on that build, and his 40 meter terror radius. I do not want Wesker to become another disliked killer, especially if it's just because of one stupid and incredibly cheap build like that.
I am not even concerned about the build being op as much as I am concerned about it being simply insufferable to play against, to the point where I wouldn't even blame the survivors if they suicided on hooks. I saw a video of tru3 against that build, it didn't look fun at all (but admittedily that was on The Game map), and if that would become his signature build, then I fear he might just become another disliked killer on the survivors, side, and DBD surely doesn't need that right now.
It would be particularly frustrating, because I really do believe that Wesker at base could become one of the most liked killers on both sides in general, because his design just seems really, really fair. He is strong, but has a fair amount of counterplay as well. And that's exactly the type of killer that this game needs real bad.
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@Chaellooo said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3147521#Comment_3147521
i agree the hitbox change is a nerf however i dont mind because of his collision fixes increased movement speed etc imo he's gonna be low A tier killer
Oh the hitbox decrease was absolutely needed. I actually got a bit scared when I read the notes, saw that they were reducing his collision box size, but no mention of his hit box size being reduced. He could've probably gotten too many grabs around corners without the hitbox being decreased a bit.
Also, decreasing his collision box size, plus the other buffs, will make him a bit stronger at loops, so it's good survivors have a slightly better chance at dodging his dash if they predict his dash right.
And I agree, I think Wesker will be one of the most balanced killers in the game, especially since, despite being strong, he also has a fair amount of counterplay for survivors, which is so important. I am hopeful that he'll be similarly beloved to go against as Demogorgon. I just hope certain builds like a Coulrophobia anti-heal build won't make him too unbearable to go against.
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@YOURFRIEND said:
Doubling the base BT was too much. 7s would have been better.
Doesn't seem like most people are agreeing with you here.
I think this was absolutely necessary, and is going to be one of the best parts of the new update. Finally we actually have a proper anti-tunneling mechanic in this game. And it's surely here to stay. I couldn't be more happy.
Now BHVR only has to nerf camping adequately, so killers are more encouraged to play normally, and the game will be in the best state it's ever been. There are enough ways to nerf camping without hurting killers too much, and it's needed after all the buffs killers got. But it's already just really good to see that BHVR is listening to their community.
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It's still going to be good, but the nerf was definitely unnecessary.
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@Shroompy said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3147366#Comment_3147366
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/O8L46AR2PD4O/image.png
I know right? Terrible how they didn't buff Wesker... I mean really a shame because he had so much potential...
:(
It probably doesn't seem like buffs to people that wanted Wesker to be buffed to Nurse's level.
The buffs he is getting are not particularly big, but will make him better to play, and are just enough in my opinion. I really believe he will be extremely well balanced, unless the injure hitbox after vaulting is big, than it could be a bit too much, but I doubt that will happen.
I am so happy they didn't listen to any of the crazy buff suggestions some people made. I am so looking forward to a new strong killer that also has a good amount of counterplay for survivors. I think he will be a lot of fun to go against.
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Except for the nerfs to Better than New, and in particular, Reassurance, this ptb update is honestly amazing. Wesker is generally getting buffed just a bit, though it's more of a quality of life improvement, which is fantastic, because he already was fairly strong in the ptb. And the 10 seconds basekit BT are just incredible.
Just such a shame they nerfed Reassurance, without nerfing camping at base in any way or form.
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You are right, the perk will still be good. People calling this perk useless is just classic overreaction to a nerf that feels unnecessary.
And that is the problem I have. The perk will still be strong, but the nerf was completely unnecessary. It should be even stronger, simple as that.
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I want solo queue to be improved as well, by giving the more information. I hope we do get these survivor icons soon enough.
But the basekit endurance and haste effect duration was increased to 10 seconds, and the haste increased to 10%. That is definitely a great improvement, especially for solo queue. Now they just need to nerf camping adequately as well and the game will be in the best state it's ever been.
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@Aven_Fallen said:
You would be funny to laugh at if it would not be so sad how you show your lack of skill in this game with every post.
You focus on one point and ignore that they made two upcoming Survivor Perks pointless in the next Update AND reduced the number of Pallets on the new RPD-Maps.
I do not see how Reassurance is going to be pointless now, it's just a completely unnecessary nerf that it's getting. It will still be effective, I sure still will be using it, but just not as effective as it should be, because an anti-camping perk can pretty much never be too effective.
@VoidOfMe said:
So now it's time for the killers to become cry babies once again, right?
@Aven_Fallen said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3147324#Comment_3147324
This never changed tbh.
This community has always had it's fair share of cry babies. But on both sides, not just killers side. And that will most likely also never change.
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@Devilishly_Rowdy said:
So survivors rage quitting finally pays off as usual. Now they get a full on buffed version of BT as basekit. Which can pretty much guarantee an escape during endgame, if the survivor is unhooked anywhere near the exits. Go on, keep punishing killers for camping and tunneling, instead of looking into why MOST of the camping and tunneling is happening (survivor objective is much quicker than the killer's objective). So much for the kiLLeR siDeD pAtCh lol.
Is this a joke? If you can not see how problematic camping and tunneling currently are, then I don't know what to tell you. And no, killers do not have to camp or tunnel to have a fair chance at winning, unless you are maybe playing on Eyrie of Crows or Fractured Cowshed. Not after killers got their bunch of baseline buffs.
This buff to the anti-tunneling mechanic is one of the best things I have ever seen in BHVR's dev notes. I am so happy at the moment. And I am a killer main myself.
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@Chaellooo said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3147423#Comment_3147423
yeah lol
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3147404#Comment_3147404
did you read the patch notes how did he get nerfed exactly? they buffed him greatly and he was already quite good in the ptb. they only nerfed the survivor hitbox while using virvulent bound but thats mostly not gonna hurt him in any way
I mean, the hitbox reduction will definitely make a bit of difference. Survivors will have more of a chance to dodge his dash, which adds a bit more counterplay, and that is absolutely fantastic. So that is definitely a bit of a nerf.
But in general, he is definitely buffed. I wouldn't say greatly though, a lot of the changes sound more like smal buffs that are more just quality of life changes, making playing him feel better. The exception being the increased movement speed during his bound chaining.
The collision box and hit box size reduction are particularly great, as they will make him more fun to play, maybe also play against, and he will require more skill to play as, and arguably also play against.
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I hope the injure after vaulting is only if Wesker actually comes in contact with survivors. Because if he could safely injure survivors after vaulting a pallet that survivors have just thrown down, that would probably cut down on survivors counterplay way too much. It would kind of defeat the purpose of him not being able to injure over pallets and windows, which would be awful.
However, if survivors can avoid being injured just by having enough distance which they can gain while Wesker is vaulting, then that change will be perfectly fine, and very good. Survivors using those sprays to make his vault useless would have been a serious problem.
The other changes all sound amazing. None of these buffs seem significant in any way, they'll just make him play a bit better. The collision and hit box size reduction are the best changes here.
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@RoastedGarlic said:
i agree, revert the changes to reassurance and make it so the survivor on hook can press their ability button to cancel the effect. boom the problem is addressed.
Exactly, 100% that. Though I am going to be honest, I wouldn't mind the nerf if they would have increase the range noticeably. 18 meters for example. Then you wouldn't kind of have to sacrifice yourself to counterplay camping, and then I also wouldn't mind it only working once per hook phase.
I am beyond happy to find out about the buffed endurance and haste status effect duration though. So i don't even want to be too harsh on the devs, because that change is just so awesome.
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@GoodBoyKaru said:
I love how they nerfed Reassurance at the sobs of the facecampers, so instead of removing the abusable part they removed the anti-facecamp part, and yet then decided to make Better Than New one of the best perks in the game instead. Make it make sense.
Dude that perk will be insane. Couldn't they have just buffed the values a bit, and left the time limit? Or buffed the values and time limit just a little bit? Like 8 or 10 % for 45 seconds?
So just let's go back to gen rush and camp and tunnel meta? Instead of further improving on what 6.1.0 started to improve, which is killers generally being more viably by playing fairly, and camping and tunneling actually being nerfed properly? I don't get it, I just don't. I like the idea of more new perks becoming meta, but this just seems a bit extreme.
Edit: Nevermind just saw it doesn't affect repair speed. So actually just another bad survivor perk. What a real shame. I was hoping it would just get some decent buffs to actually be a fairly good perk.
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Please tell me this is a joke. I just read the dev notes.
You know, I am a killer main, but please, I encourage any survivor player who is fed up at the moment to take a break from the game. And NOT play if they are facing too many camping and tunneling killers. I still enjoy survivor at the moment, but I sure as hell will stop playing survivor as soon as I get bombarded with camping and tunneling killers again. At some point these devs can't ignore killer queue times being longer anymore.
I am going to be honest, I do NOT think that Reassurance is now a dead perk for solo. I used it during my time on the ptb playing solo, and I always only used it once per hook phase on another survivor. And I am pretty sure I still got good value out of it. Delaying the hook timer by 30 seconds while even just one other survivor is doing gens is very good.
But it is still very frustrating to see it being nerfed in a way that will most likely hurt solo survivors more than swf survivors. It's so annoying. I am positive that the devs care about solo queue as well, it just seems like they are sometimes clueless with some of their balance changes, and it's getting really annoying.
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@ThatOneDemoPlayer said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3145156#Comment_3145156
Queue times are dependant on the time of day. Killer queues are getting shorter and shorter on my end.
Pentimento is easy to deal with. Either cleanse no Dull Totems, or just remember where you cleansed a Totem.
Eruption doesn't need nerfs, it needs a buff. Give it a 6 Meter explosion radius so SWFs can't counter the Perk while SoloQ Survivors can't.
There's a single balanced Map in the game, Temple Of Purgation. Every single other Map is either Killer-sided (the minority of Maps) or Survivor-sided (the majority). The base line QOL improvements Killers got did nothing to balance those Maps, they're still extremely unbalanced.
Camping and tunneling can't be nerfed before going for 12 Hooks becomes more viable, unless you want to get the majority of Killer players to either drop the game, or main Nurse/Blight.
The highest priority shouldn't be a camping/tunneling nerf, it should be a redo of 6.1.0.
6.1.0 was a patch that was supposed to change the meta and get players to play "nicer" but ultimately failed and made Killers play even "meaner" because of the absurd Perk buffs and nerfs. 6.1.0 was one of the biggest mistakes the devs made
Killer queue times are still clealry longer than survivor queue times. Mine have been fairly short during the evening as well, but they are definitely still longer during the day. Survivor queue times are just instant, no matter when. And some people seem to be suffer much more from killer queue times, going up to 10 minutes or so. It seems different dependent on the region and mmr you are playing in. So yeah, something needs to be done.
Pentimento is not easy to deal with if you are playing solo queue. Inrceasing gen times to 128 seconds is just ridiculous. Also, i wouldn't mind the idea of a 6 meter explosion radius on Eruption. But only if the incapacitated effect duration gets decreased. Because yes, right now it is too strong, against solo survivors.
I also have no idea how 6.1.0 was bad for killers. That is clearly not the general opinion. The baseline buffs to killers were all great, and also outweighed the nerfs that the meta perks received. They still have good regression and slowdown perks, two of them even being op. Going for hooks is much more viable now. The problem is that survivors didn't receive any baseline buffs against camping and tunneling.
Also, and again, I can not stress this enough, but nerfing camping and tunneling doesn't mean killers will only win if they go for 12 hooks. You'll still be able to kill a survivor before you have 2-hooked everyone. Ideally, at some point, the most optimal way to play killer would be to 2-hook every survivor before you start killing them, but I do agree the game is not their yet for that to be posible, and I am not sure if it ever will be, or if something like that could even be implemented.
But nerfing camping and tunneling in adequate ways is more than necessary right now, and will surely not make the majority of killer players leave the game. The majority of killer players aren't bad losers that always just blame the game for their losses. At least I would hope so.
Increasing the hook phase duration from 60 to 70 seconds and removing hook grabs, as well as increasing the endurance and haste effect duration from 5 to 10 seconds would not make killers unplayable. Not even close. It wouldn't force them to 2 hook every survivor before going for a kill, it would just nerf camping and tunneling a bit, to make those straregies less effective, so killers couldn't crutch on those as much, and survivors could have more fun matches.
I think it's quite simple. Either the devs can ignore these problems, so that some killer players can keep these crutches, or they try to keep balancing the game properly for their average community, which would also balance out killer queue times again, which is definitely needed.
And here is another thing. Assuming that BHVR continues to actually try to balance the game properly, which, in case of camping and tunneling nerfs, they clearly would, the devs could try and further balance the game, and maybe buff killers a bit more, if after the camping and tunneling nerfs, we end up with a shortage of killer players, and survivor queue times go up. However, instead of having insanely cheap and skillless strategies like camping and tunneling be too strong, they could then buff other aspects of killers, aspects that encourage healthy and fun gameplay. That's how you keep improving and balancing a game properly.
For example, if there is one aspect that the devs should definitely still consider buffing, it is the immediate regression after kicking a gen. I could definitely see it being increased from 2,5% to 5% for example.
Maps are surely another aspect that should be looked at. But surely survivor sided maps shouldn't be made more balanced before they nerf camping and tunneling? I wouldn't mind if we saw some balance changes to maps in the same patch in which camping and tunneling are nerfed, but right now, because of longer killer queue times, nerfing camping and tunneling has the highest priority, and it should happen asap as well. They surely shouldn't wait for those nerfs because of other balance changes.
I also don't quite agree with so many maps being unbalanced. I agree, Temple of Purguation is a pretty balanced map. But in my opinion, so are maps like Champbell's Capel, Rotten Fields, Rancid Arbattoir, or the Yamaoka maps. I also don't think there are that many more survivor sided maps than there are killer sided maps, now after the baseline buffs to killers. Dead Dawg Saloon, Midwhich, Azarov's Resting Place, possibly Iron Keep and Wrecker's Yard after the killer buffs, are killer sided. Perhaps even the swamp maps. Not sure.
On the survivor side we then have maps like Torment Creek, Suffocation Pit, Gas Heaven, The Game, Groaning Storehouse and Ormont perhaps, maybe also Thompson's House. And then of course the extreme cases, which are Eyrie of Crows and Fractured Cowshed. So while I agree the maps on average are still slightly more survivor sided, I don't think there are that big differences anymore.
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No idea how you didn't get tunneled before the patch honestly. For me personally, it has actually gotten less. But in the end, tunneling is still as effective as it ever was, which is a serious problem.
There is a reason why killer queue times are longer than survivor queue times, and 95% of those reasons are camping and tunneling.
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What even is this? If you can not escape any match at all, you might be the problem actually.
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@Sluzzy said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3142999#Comment_3142999
That wouldn't make any sense though. The evidence is overwhelming they balance for very bad killers. There is zero evidence they do anything to help bad survivors, they are dead when the match starts.
I also forgot to mention Bloodlust was actually buffed, which rewards very bad killers and punishes good survivor gameplay.
"They are dead when the match starts" There is just no way you are that bad at survivor. How do you not see the irony in your posts?
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To be fair, the DS nerf was absolutely horrible. But the DH nerf was more than necessary. Good killers didn't know how to play around old DH because you couldn't play around it if it was used for distance. Like it's not even hard to understand how you couldn't play around DH for distance.
Circle of Healing is also still very strong.
Instead, the devs should focus on fixing actual problems in the game. Killer is still not easy if you go against good survivors, and it probably won't ever be. You still need to play very well as killer. But problems like camping and tunneling exist, giving killers cheap and easy wins when they didn't deserve them. So I have no idea why anyone would want to have broken perks like DH reverted again, instead of fixing the actual problems survivors have.
Also, killers now don't need skill to down a survivor because of the DH nerf? What on earth? Have you missed the part where survivors can still loop and outplay the killer properly, instead of just pressing a button?
I think it's interesting that you say that the game shouldn't be balanced around bad killers, meanwhile you clearly want the game to be balanced around bad survivor players like yourself.
Your comparison between survivor and killer perks also just doesn't work at all. Like not at all. Everything in this post is yet again just so bad honestly.
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I don't get this argument. It's so ridiculous to me that some people are acting like solo queue has been completely destroyed but swf survivors are as strong as ever. Just insane.
How do the killer buffs not affect swf survivors? And how do these killer buffs make solo queue suddenly unplayable? It's Honestly just so, so ridiculous.
The frustrating part is that survivors do need help at the moment, especially solo queue. It's just not fair for killers to get a bunch of good buffs that help them with their frustrations, but survivors getting nothing in return. And those 5 second endurance after being unhooked are not even close to enough.
But people just seem to rather participate in hyperbole than actually voice proper criticism, at least at times it seems. Solo queue is not dead, and swf hasn't been left untouched. The buffs actually help killers, giving them a better and fairer chance at winning. The problem is just that solo survivors didn't get any help, and that camping and tunneling are still as effective as they ever were, and maybe even more now. Pretty bad if you ask me.
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I think camping and tunneling need to be nerfed first. But I would also be very happy about some solo queue information buffs.
I know some people say that solo queue is dead, but that's just an insane exaggeration. You can still win, even in solo queue. Problem is just that it can be quite rough for solo queue at the moment, or even just survivor in general. Even swf survivors have to suffer camping and tunneling. That is no fun for anyone.
But yeah, solo queue isn't dead. There are still tons of people that seem to be playing survivor solo.
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I think DS being basekit would be fantastic, but at the moment, it might be a bit too much, considering how unbalanced some maps still are.
Right now I just want them to increase the hook phase duration from 60 to 70 seconds, remove hook grabs, and increase the endurance and haste status effect duration from 5 to 10 seconds.
That would already really help with the issue of camping and tunneling, without going too overboard. The problem is that some killers are still too weak, and there are still some maps that are too survivor sided. But nerfing camping and tunneling in an adequate way is definitely needed at the moment.
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@SuzuKR said:
People that think playing smart and efficiently is toxic will never fail to bewilder me.
What, is an enemy toxic for going for headshots in an FPS because they do it better than you do?
Headshots take a lot of skill. Camping and tunneling don't, especially the former. What a terrible comparison.
It's true though, you can not blame people for playing efficiently, not sure about smart though, even the dumbest person on earth could just camp a hooked survivor.
The problem is that the devs still haven't adressed these cheap and pathetic tactics. And the entire claim that killers won't have any chance to win anymore after these ridiculous tactis are nerfed is complete bs. You can still win without camping and tunneling like crazy.
I would agree that nerfing camping and tunneling into the ground might be a bit much, but there are enough ways to nerf camping and tunneling adequately, so that they aren't some of the most efficient strategies anymore. And it's needed, because they are simply cheap.
But maybe people like you have experienced some particular bliss that comes with longer killer queue times, I sure haven't. And if the devs ever want to balance queue times again, camping and tunneling will have to be nerfed.
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This type of BS is honestly just becoming sickening.
Killers just got a bunch of baseline buffs. Yes, their meta slowdown perks were also nerfed, but those nerfs definitely didn't have the same impact as all the buffs killers got at base.
Killers do not have to camp and tunnel to win. Just no. They can play fair and still win. They just have to actually play well enough. Also, playing fair doesn't mean 2 hooking everyone before you get a kill. It just means not camping and tunneling. Two strategies that are just so cheap and unfun, it's not even funny anympre at this point.
People have made so many suggestions already that would nerf camping and tunneling in a fair and balanced way. Increasing the hook phase duration from 60 to 70 seconds for example. And removing hook grabs. That won't nerf camping into ground, nor will it hurt a killer that is playing normally in any significant way. But it would make camping less effective, which is something that absolutely needs to happen.
I guess there are people that are yearning for longer killer queue times. That's the only reason I can still think of for people still defending camping and tunneling after all the buffs killers received.
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The box doesn't spawn too often. But the chains stopping you from solving it is definitely an issue. They once said they fixed that issue, but sadly, they didn't.
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@ThatOneDemoPlayer said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3141458#Comment_3141458
No slowdown Perk needs a nerf, they're all fine.
Nurse and Blight are (base-kit wise) perfectly fine.
Camping and tunneling can't be nerfed until we have better Map and Item balance
So you just want the devs to ignore the clear difference in queue times for each role?
I can maybe understand the argument that the devs shouldn't touch any slowdown perks anymore, even though I very much believe that Pentimento and Eruption need a nerf.
But nothing done about camping and tunneling? Have some people still not realised that DBD is suffering a shortage of survivor players? I understand that maps like Eyrie of Crow or Cowshed are still a problem. But the game can't be balanced around the worst maps in the game. Maps in general have already become more balanced with the baseline buffs that killers got. Survivor sided maps obviously still exist, but that is no reason to not nerf camping and tunneling right now.
The next step for BHVR is to nerf camping and tunneling, and then continue on from there. If killers end up needing buffs after that for example, then BHVR could buff them in different ways as well. It is true that some maps definitely need to be looked at. But right now, considering queue times, camping and tunneling need to be nerfed next. Or there need to be solo queue buffs. But in my opinion, nerfing camping and tunneling should have the highest priority.
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I think that really depends on the tech. And whether that tech is fun to go against, or fair to go against.
If we are talking about Blight for example, that tech needs to go. It removes too much counterplay against him, and that as well as his op addons are what's currently making him simply too strong.
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@Sluzzy said:
Not really at all. Survivors are at the sole and great mercy of killers being so bad they are throwing themselves. I have literally seen 20 hr killers beat teams with hundreds of hours.
This was before the patch. Now the feat of survivors must be astronomical.
There needs to be a key in every match with the hatch to bring back some hope in matches. 5 gens are too hard to do.
Skill issue. Always has been with you.
If a survivor team is good, they still have a very good chance winning against any killer. If they resort to camping and tunneling, it becomes more difficult, which is a problem obviously, but even then survivors can sometimes win.
And that was especially true before the patch. Like, why is it so hard for you to accept that you are just not as good at the game as you think you are? Even after patch, good survivors can still win. The problem is just that survivors now have to deal with camping and tunneling, which are way too effective, despite them no longer being necessary.
The exceptions I guess are Nurse and Blight. Those killers need to be looked at. But otherwise, killers, when played normally at least, are perfectly balanced and fair.
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@EvilSerje said:
Nah... Hook suicides and match throws quenched drastically, almost everyone play normally on my MMR, but still win is a luxury. So, update to your phrase would be: "You can win in Solo Queue... if you got baby killer"
What a ridiculous exaggeration. I feel like so many people agree that survivors need help right now, at the very least against camping and tunneling, but I don't see how exaggerating like crazy will help you in making a point.
I've been able to win solo survivor matches against killers that clearly weren't "babies". But of course, if they are better than me, they will down me quickl. If you are losing almost every match despite everyone playing normally, then that is a skill issue.
In general at least. Again, camping and tunneling surely are a serious problem.
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I am very happy about the perk, but it really is a shame that is the only answer so far to camping. BHVR needs to nerf camping and tunneling at base, or queue times will continue to be imbalanced. So I can only pray this is not their solution to all the complaints about camping and tunneling.
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@BrokenSouI said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3141117#Comment_3141117
You can feel that way if you want. But I don't think it's hard to admit the perks need changed and need limitations.
Hyper focus has the ability to help you complete a gen SOLO in 47 seconds. I'm no genius. But kill rates were low. So they upped gen speeds and made changes for chase time. I don't think they want people soloing gens in 47 seconds.
I understand peoples excitement for reassurance. But it needs limitations. It needs to work on one floor(doubtful they'll do that) It needs to work maybe once per hook state. It works from multiple floors. Making it safe to use. When it's supposed to be dangerous(see 6m) I'll spare the discussion on having a perk that basically eliminates hook timers and it's impact on balance. But it's a perk that can be used to bully both survivor and killer. Survivors can keep you in game against your will as survivor. As killer there are many bully/greifing situations that arise. Including but not limited to it shouldn't work in end game. As you can literally do something like stay atop shack and greif the killer(and survivor) To the point it's either "give us our team mate. Or else we're staying here"
Again, how are you able to grief the killer? For Reassurance to make an impact, the killer must be camping, simple as that. If not, he will progress the game by going for another survivor, and downing them.
There is just no way you can grief a killer with this perk. It's effective if the killer stays near the hook, so he can't just wait until the survivor gets to the second stage. Going for other survivors is the solution in that case. the only exception I could see is end game. But not even sure on that, since survivors already have a fairly low chance of getting all 4 out. Killers have it very easy at the moment to secure at least one kill.
Reassurance is one of the healthiest perks BHVR has ever created, even though it's not good that it's just a bandaid fix. Killer queue times are already noticeably longer than survivor queue times, on average. You know how stupid it would be to nerf Reassurance in any significant way? I can't see that going well for BHVR.
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@Biscuits said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3141071#Comment_3141071
Right right right right, that must be all that skill issue boosting up killer queue times.
Don't kid yourself. I doubt the scenario you described is what has actually increased queue times for killers.
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@Biscuits said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3141052#Comment_3141052
Play a kick build with wraith with the addon that lets you see which gens they are working on. Every single time I have done it since patch someone has given up. It is to the point that killers can afk at a 3 gen and only play the last 5 minutes and come out on top right now. Something needs to be done about stacking regression perks and 3 gens.
There are two types of killers right now. The first stacks regression perks and the second tunnels.
I really feel that is more of a skill issue than a balance issue.
Which regression perks were you using? Because I do agree that Eruption and Pentimento need to be nerfed. The other slowdown or regression perks seem fine to me, if anything, they just need very small nerfs, and that's it.
I really hope BHVR nerfs camping and tunneling before they nerf anything else significant on the killer's side, because those two strategies are by far the most problematic in this game right now. And those two strategies being nerfed would improve the gameplay of survivors like no other balance change. In my opinion.
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Killers aren't really op. In general at least. And especially not a killer like Wraith. Only Nurse and Blight are op in my opinion.
The big problem for survivor right now is that killers, while not op, have very cheap tactics they can squeeze a win out with in a match they otherwise would have rightfully lost, and those tactics are camping and tunneling. Killers in general don't need nerfs, at least not noticeable nerfs. It's camping and tunneling that need to be nerfed asap.
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@Wezil said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/341935/surviving-while-being-tunneling-wins-games
There's no middle ground with looping anymore. A very few survivors can loop with all the anti-looping buffs killers got. While brain-dead killers can just wait for a much quicker bloodlust to catch survivors. The skill for playing killer is much lower than the skill for playing survivor in solo-queue.
The skills should be the same, but is just isn't.
Eh that very much depends. In general, neither side is more skillful, or less. Killer certainly isn't easier than survivor if you are going againat a good survivor team.
Swf do have certain aspects made easier for them, but chases, in the end, aren'treally affected by that, and it's the chase that involves the most skill.
Arguably, on the killers side, map pressure, or macro gameplay, is another important skill set to have.
But still, neither side is easier, really. Solo just can feel more frustrating, especially because of MMR. And then there is crap like camping and tunneling. And to be fair, I guess killer can be seen as easier, if the killer is utilizing camping and tunneling, since especially the former does not take much skill at all. So if that's why you say killer is easier, then I would probably agree.