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@WesCravenFan said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3384559#Comment_3384559
I get that part, I just think there should be more incentive to heal a teammate and less selfish actions like Self-Care.
I think there will still be enough incentive even with these healing nerfs to be honest. Especially because medkits will have their amount of uses be more limited.
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@Ayodam said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3384568#Comment_3384568
Do you think you as a survivor would have enough time to heal up & save a camped survivor?
Well no? That's why I want camping to be nerfed, by increasing the hook phase duration from 60 to 75 seconds.
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You will still want to be able to heal. Yes you will waste more time doing so, but on the other hand, the 3 strongest regression perks are being nerfed hard, and I think some people do not realise the impact of what that's going to have.
And yes, people will still want to go for unhooks as well. Unless the killer camps I guess. Camping will need to be nerfed anyways with this patch.
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@BougieBlackChick said:
You’re correct. If you’re someone who brings toolboxes, maps or flashlights this is a huge nerf for solo Q because now your ability to heal is 100% dependent on randos in solo Q unless you bring your own medkit, WITH enough ads ons to get you the two full heals. Unless you wanna waste a peek spot on self care that takes as long to heal you as it does to complete a full gen.
so now all the killers who use tunneling as the META (because this isn’t going to slow down tunneling or camping. Let’s be honest) are guaranteed a 4K every match
They 100% will need to nerf camping before this patch goes live. At least in my opinion. I am hopeful they will do so.
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@Styrix said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3384225#Comment_3384225
So we just let it go live and then hate on it? Why not try to prevent it before it becomes a problem?
The argument here is that you should maybe try these changes on the ptb before concluding that this update will be terrible. Of course having an early opinion on this update is understandable.
If we don't see any additional changes, then you might be right with the loss of players. Only might. But BHVR can easily fix that.
They need to nerf mangled and other anti-healing effects, and nerf camping. Then things will look really good. The direction BHVR is going with this game is a great one. Reward killers more for playing well and going for chases, but nerf their strongest regression perks that make gens take forever.
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@Chocolate_Cosmos said:
Yea, infinite med-kit for the whole team that also makes everyone much faster heal including med-kits... idk why they nerf it, so balanced and perfect and killer can't counter without using 1 meh situational perk in the whole game pff
But with the nerf to healing, it wouldn't have been fast self healings anymore. The healing nerf would have nerfed CoH indirectly enough.
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@WesCravenFan said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3384539#Comment_3384539
My only request is they roll back the base speed for healing when healing others. The self nerf is fine.
That nerf is kind of needed when considering the large nerfs to the main regression perks. The entire idea is to give killers more slowdown by playing well and injuring a lot of survivors, and less by simply equipping perks and kicking gens.
I think it's a very good change, and doubt they will revert it, because of the slowdown perks also getting nerfed. I can see it going down to 20 seconds however, if too many people feel that 24 seconds is overkill.
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@FridayNightPizza said:
I agree dead hard and circle of healing needed the nerf but I feel like the general healing buff was a tad overkill, if it impacts deep wounds then people are going to hate going against legion even more, the gen regression nerf I found really strange considering brand new part and toolboxes are remaining as they are, it's not like injured survivors can't do gens so I'm not really sure what they were going for. At least hit and run will be more viable so I can play my beloved Sadako more.
Deep wounds is a seperate mechanic, pretty positive it won't increase the time it takes to mend.
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Well everything is being tested in the ptb, so you don't have to worry. I am also 100% convinced mangled and Coulrophobia won't stay at the values they currently are, it would simply be way too much.
Likewise, I believe camping will have to be nerfed in some way or form, or it will be buffed indirectly again, which is something BHVR can not afford.
But you shouldn't forget that the 3 main regression perks killers have are also getting nerfed hard, as compensation. I do think having shorter matches could be a good thing, considering people are tired off long lasting 3 gen matches. As long as it doesn't get too out of hand.
The direction BHVR is going with DBD is a good one though. Rewarding killers with more slowdown by playing well, and spreading damage, and instead nerfing all the slowdown killers get from the best regression perks.
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Yes please. 60% would actually be good. It would arguably be more efficient than altruistic healing, but would still take a very long time, making altruistic healing better.
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@Rokku_Rorru said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/369515/heal-time-changes-hook-time-changes
Honestly making everything take longer should be the answer but at this point I'd rather we go back to pre 6.1.0 the game does not feel fun to play with everything taking so long to do. We could have had so many better things like baseline corrupt or the early game changes, instead we got more stackable slowdown paired with gens that take forever and base chase changes that should have been added gradually rather than all at once with no tweaks since.
the game was fine before 6.1.0 the meta was just stale and now they are just making the base game insufferable.
I think we should wait and see how it plays in the ptb. I think the direction BHVR is trying to go is very good. Making chases at base more rewarding by increasing healing time.
Let's not forget that the three main regression perks are all getting hit hard, which means you will have to generally spend less time on gens now. Healing will take longer yes, but in order for the killer to get use of that, you will be having more interaction with the killer, because he wants to injure survivors as often as possible. 3 genning is also being nerfed clearly, which is also a good thing.
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@sizzlingmario4 said:
Nah, the self-healing was the entire issue with it. BHVR had a choice between removing the self-healing entirely or making it so slow that it was near-worthless, and they chose the former. The truth is boon perks as a whole are just badly executed and should get a rework. Until then, none of them can be made any stronger, including this one once its nerfed.
Btw, it's not just being limited to medkits, it's only an altruistic heal speed bonus now (and the aura reveals they're adding to it). Using your medkit in the boon radius will not give you any bonus.
Self healing was the issue because of how fast survivors could heal themselves in it. With the nerf to healing, that wouldn't have been an issue anymore. It would have been almost the same time as it took to heal yourself with Self Care before the nerf.
I really hope they revert the nerf to CoH, because that is the one nerf that will hurt solo survivors more than swf. And that is a big shame, considering just last mid chapter patch, things finally were looking to become better for solo queue. And obviously CoH nerf won't undo that, but it's still a shame to have a nerf that affects solo queue much more than swf.
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I don't think this will be such an issue. Ideally, the devs could buff survivors just in general for every survivor that is dead in the future. I think that would very much benefit the game's balance a lot.
But as of now, you have to keep in mind that gen regression perks, which would also heavily effect a team of 3 survivors, are getting nerfed heavily as well as compensation. So I don't think this will change much. A 3 vs 1, unless there is 1 gen left, will still be almost impossible to win.
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They probably won't have to do anything actually. The big problem with 3 genning at the moment are the slowdown perks killers have, mainly Call of Brine and Overcharge. Those two perks are getting nerfed hard, so she probably won't be a problem anymore, and people might even have enjoyable matches against her after that.
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@Batusalen said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3384140#Comment_3384140
I think Ardetha's last video about old bully squads indirectly explained it so well: Survivors have being in a power trip for so long that now even a balancing patch affecting both sides and making the game fair is seen as "killer sided" and a nerf to only survivors. And of course, nerfing survivors is going against their rightful fun, so that is a no-no.
That's why so many people is crying about the healing and want it reverted even before they put the patch in the PTB, but have no problem with the nerfs done to the killer side and want them to stay even if it was to compensate the other changes and all those changes are to solve many problems with the game.
They don't want to see all the changes as a whole and understand why BHVR have done those things because they simply don't care, they want the game to guarantee "their fun" at cost of anything else, including balance, and that's about it.
I have seen killer mains do the same thing. Except they cry about the slowdown nerfs and do not consider the healing nerfs at all. People just in general aren't seeing the big picture with this update quite yet.
I hope telling yourself that will make you feel better about the long queue times if camping doesn't get touched at all.
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@Coffeecrashing said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/369515/heal-time-changes-hook-time-changes
No. Making all healing speeds longer, is the compensation for all the gen regression slowdown being shorter.
The killer perk nerfs are absolutely huge, as in they nerfed those perks into the ground. This is a fair trade, as BHVR is basically destroying an entire genre of game slowdown.
These healing nerfs will affect camping more than the regression perks, as they don't really see use when camping. Not to mention Deadlock is staying the same.
Camping 100% needs to be nerfed if BHVR does not want to lose a bunch of survivor players. I hope they do something about it, I don't want to end up with long killer queue times again.
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@Batusalen said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3383981#Comment_3383981
Mindgames are bets. Sometimes you trick the other, sometimes you don't. Doesn't have anything to do with the strength of the killer or the skill of the player. By your same logic, we could say "survivors can make chases longer than they should because they win a lot of mindgames".
If someone is camping, healing is not a factor unless you mess up. If the killer is camping, you won't get hurt unless you come close to the hook, as the killer is camping. So, what you are talking about is not "survivors need to get healed to try the impossible save because the killer is camping", what you are saying is "survivors would get hurt trying to do an impossible save so they need time to reset the save, AKA healing again to have another try". In other words, what you people are asking is for the game to allow you to literally reset your mistakes over and over again.
And sorry but yes, doing gens when a killer is camping is an effective way of punishing him, more so if that first survivor waste a good amount of the killer's time. Yesterday, I had a game and survivors literally did 4 gens in 3:45 minutes. If the survivor that is going to be camped loop the killer good and waste his time, the rest have time to do most of the gens and try to go for a save. And the keyword is try, as now the game won't "have your back" if you failed the save and want to try another 3 times.
Dude, you made it sound like survivors have to mess up for a killer to get a quick down. And that is not the case. That's what I was getting at.
Fine, the devs can choose to just not do anything against camping. But if we actually end up with 24 second heals, or even just 20 second heals, enjoy watching your killer queue times sky rocket, because I fear exactly that will happen. And survivors can't be blamed for that.
Generally, if a killer is camping. You can try to go for hook trades, Simple as that. It's better than just rushing gens, especially if the killer is using Deadlock. With these healing changes, camping will just become a free 2 or 3k even more. If you think that's healthy for the game, great for you. But I bet most survivor players don't. Hence the increase in killer queue times, as I predict.
Camping is insanely unfun to go against. I don't care if you think it's balanced or not in what twisted way. People will have even more trouble going against it, and will simply decide to not play survivor anymore.
@Batusalen said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3383983#Comment_3383983
BTW, they tried many times before to do something against "camping", because people don't stop crying about it. Every single time they implemented a new mechanic to avoid camping, survivors would take advantage of it and start abusing it.
So, I join @Technature question: What would you do to "nerf" camping without survivors abusing that new mechanic?
Increase hook phase duration from 60 to 75 seconds, and remove hook grabs. Easy as that. The systems that BHVR tested also simply sucked, if you add more coniditions to them, those could work as well. But BHVR might deem a system like that too complicated for their newer players.
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@not_requested49 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3383861#Comment_3383861
And what makes you think they will do any of that lmao
I don't know, but I could see them doing it. I fear camping will get out of hand, so they will be forced to do something.
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@Firellius said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3383473#Comment_3383473
No, both Off the Record and DH are now disabled if the unhooked is hit off hook, since it denies a safe unhook and inflicts deep wounds which blocks endurance.
I'm fine with DH getting nerfed, it's just that this nerf specifically exacerbates some overarching issues with the game.
Tunneling and camping are seperate issues that need to be addressed. And with healing being nerfed, I hope they can nerf both those strategies. In fact, if they do not want to make many survivor players take a break from the game, they will absolutely have to nerf camping as well in this patch. Which would also nerf tunneling a bit indirectly.
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@IronKnight55 said:
I think a lot of people will leave or switch sides if those horrid healing changes make it to live. Good luck finding games as killer as well.
Edit- Not to mention the amount of people that will DC after the update...
Not with the slowdown perk nerfs in mind. I don't think so.
I think there will have to be additional changes for sure, or you will be right. Especially camping will have to be nerfed as well. And mangled can NOT stay at 20% if healing actually takes 24 seconds. Coulrophobia and Pentimento will probably also need nerfs.
But that's also what PTB is for. To test those changes. If I had to guess, BHVR will end up settling for 20 second heal times.
The general idea of increasing heal times but making slowdown perks less effective is a good idea however.
Not to mention that right now, survivor queue times are longer than killer queue times on average.
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@blmpride5 said:
OK so apparently if you don't hit and run (which is done by about 3 or so killers) that means the only other option is tunneling. Great logic guys. So whenever you play a non hit and run killer, lets say you play against a wesker. You 100% are getting tunneled because he doesn't do hit and run tactics. Yes that is correct you guys clearly play the game.
But you are kind of implying that same logic, by saying that we will be in a pure hit and run meta because of these changes. At least that's how it sounds. These changes will push this game more into hit and run territory, but that doesn't mean it's only going to be that. But ideally DBD should be more about hit and run, applying pressure, and less about just camping and tunneling. Which is what a healing nerf will accomplish. Or at least if camping also gets nerfed, which I hope will happen as well.
When it comes to Wraith, it is actually possible he might need a nerf, he will benefit from these changes more than any other killer. That is if BHVR does settle for 24 second heals, and doesn't go down to 20 seconds, which is what I am expecting. But that's something that can be judged after these changes have been tested.
I think the one killer that worries me the most is Oni. While generally one of the fairest killers in my opinion, survivors being injured for longer might make him too strong.
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@Technature said:
There is literally nothing you can do about camping or tunneling outside of playing better and preventing the killer from doing it in the first place.
It's how the game was designed. It's #########, but that's just how it is.
The devs can nerf it so it is less effective. And with the healing nerf buffing camping indirectly, that's exactly what they are going to need to do if they don't want a clear decrease in survivor players.
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@Batusalen said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3383888#Comment_3383888
Killers use regression perks after they have camped so the remaining survivors won't escape, unless your only prupouse is to camp 1 or 2 survivors and lose the game. Now, they will lose the game as they can not start gaining time at the end of the game as now pressure is not done by regressing gens, is done by hurting survivors.
To trade hooks, you don't need more than one non injured survivor and healing is not a factor here, because as you said, it will be hooked. If the killer is camping, usually, he will be too busy standing in front of the first hook to hurt anybody else, so, there is no "spending more time healing" because technically he would not hurt much anybody.
"If the killer is good and gets his first down quick enough" I know it is not what you meant for sure, but what I read there is "the survivor wasn't good enough and didn't looped the killer for long". You made a mistake, luck wasn't by your side, you don't know how to loop, or in fact the killer was better and outplayed you. Whatever the reason you got down, and you would be punished for it. Don't like it? Get better and accept that things are not always going your way.
And I already said it but again, the changes won't "buff" camping because now every gen done is a bigger punish for the killer, and spent 2 minutes in front of the hook only allows survivor to pressure him more.
No, a killer has the potential to end chases quickly even if the survivor does not make a mistake. Often it's about winning mindgames. There are enough strong killers that can do this.
I do get that killers will have less regression to work with once the first survivor is dead, but they will also have longer healing times to work with now. No, camping will surely have to be nerfed, so survivors can heal and still have a chance to counterplay camping. Because just doing gens isn't the best option. You want to go for hook trades, but you can't while you are injured. And incrased healing times means you spend more time healing, and less on gens, while the killer is camping.
If camping doesn't get addressed as well, I do believe many survivor players will take a break from the game. I don't know about you but I do not want 10 minute queue times for killers.
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@Dark_Alex said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3383867#Comment_3383867
Not only was DH limited to a total of 8 successful uses per match, but it once again encourages killers to tunnel. The unhooked will not be able to reset the DH if he immediately engages in a new chase, making him a safe and defenseless option to take out of the game quickly. You know... If you think about it, DH could still be a good perk if BHVR make the upcoming version of it independent of "exhaustion" but with a little cooldown to prevent spam. As a rewarding second chance for altruism.
As for Pain Resonance, believe the killermane, everything is very bad. Fixed-limited perks will never rise above middle, but will most likely sink deep into oblivion. 4 times per game to demolish 15% and not just, but always catching different survivors. Great anti-tunnel strategy, but no, thank you. I'll probably take Jolt instead.
CoH was killed unfairly. In fact, in the general dynamics of the destruction of a second chance and, consequently, a more frequent state of one-shotability, the aura of the needy wounded is good. You're right that solo players will suffer a lot, but the infinite self-healing area was just way too strong. Perhaps it's time to bring back the old statistics of self-care. Healing longer than the generator requires to repair is too painful. Even from a killer mane's point of view.
I believe that it was not necessary to destroy all the healing in general. It was enough to cut the medkits (with half the forse BHVR want to do) and to prevent spam with a totem, put a cooldown on it. And rework Shattered Hope so that it gives some kind of bonus all the time, and not just when you are lucky to meet totem survivors. This would make healing and injury more meaningful, while creating a working countermeasure.
DH was never good for anti-tunnel, because it can't be used if you already have the deep wound status effect.
I do not think this change will encourage tunneling a lot. This was definitely the case with the first iteration of background player, but I can't see this being the same.
If it does turn out to encourage tunneling, then the devs can change it so you get dead hard after you get unhooked. Although that could also encourage tunneling, because now if you let the survivor go, that's when they will be able to use DH. Personally, I just think it's good that DH won't be a thing anymore in the killers first chases.
PR I think will still be somewhat decent. It will be strong in the earlier stages of the game, but not so much anymore in the later stages of the game, which is fine, since it's early on when the killer is the weakest. The rework is actually really clever, the only thing they could maybe also do is increase the regression a bit, to 20% for example.
I still think that CoH needs the self healing. The general healing nerf is enough to make that perk not problematic anymore. Self Care however will 100% need a buff. It will take so ridiculously long to heal yourself otherwise. I hope by god that Self Care not being buffed is only an oversight.
I understand why people think only medkit self healing times should have been nerfed, but I still think nerfing healing in general is a good idea. If it's too much, the devs will probably settle for 20 seconds instead of 24. But I think a nerf like this is very good. Again, you have to consider the slowdown perk nerfs with this nerf. The only problem I have with the healing nerf is that not enough other aspects are being changed to compensate for the nerf. I am talking about mangled, Coulrophobia and Pentimento, which all will need to be nerfed. That and camping will also need to be nerfed 100%, or BHVR will be in for a bad surprise.
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@Caiman said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3383867#Comment_3383867
If you left CoH's self-heal in, it would continue to be used in the same way it is now: forgo all other healing perks, just bring Circle of Healing, boon in a corner of the map where there are no generators to fix, and run there to self-heal every time you get injured. Making that take a little longer won't dissuade survivors from doing it, the self-reliance it grants the whole team is simply too good.
Well maybe, but that's because it helps solo survivors in particular. Which is why I think it's a very healthy aspect of the perk, and shouldn't be removed.
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The healing nerf in combination with the slowdown perk nerfs are a great thing. I think it's actually good that they are nerfing altruistic healing as well, really making sure that injuring survivors will help you as killer. Though we'll have to wait and see how it plays out, it might be too much as many people seem to think.
But I do think the idea of nerfing healing and in return nerfing the best slowdown perks, adding some of the slowdown of those perks into killers basekit in a healthier way, is a good idea.
The only nerf I do not like is the CoH nerf actually, as self heal is the one aspect that helped solo survivors in particular. They shouldn't get rid of that. The healing nerf would nerf CoH indirectly enough if you ask me.
I am definitely looking forward to the map reworks as well. I hope they are good. I also believe Eyrie of Crows is a pretty balanced map now, definitely not killer sided, but not really survivor sided either. So I am hopeful the map changes to the two Autoheaven maps will also be similarly good.
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@Pulsar said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3383661#Comment_3383661
No other Exhaustion perk, other than Smash Hit and Adrenaline, have a hard cap on their amount of uses. I do not believe that should be a limiting factor for DH. You would already be giving up a health state in a meta where healing is going to be very difficult.
No other exhaustion perk is as frustrating to go against as Dead Hard is for the majority of people. I think the change is perfect honestly, especially since it ensures that killers won't have to deal with it before they get their first hook, which is when they are the weakest. It's a very clever nerf if you ask me.
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@Batusalen said:
Don't unhook in front of the killer to make tunneling less appealing and if a killer is camping do gens, as with the changes it would punish him even more as now there is no regression perks whatsoever that allows him to regain pressure at the end.
There, your counters, the same ones that have being in the game as forever. You're welcome.
Killers don't get to use regression perks when they are camping anyways.
The problem is that now, with healing taking longer, survivors will have even less time to hook trade against a camping killer, and will also have less time to do gens while doing so, because they will be spending more time healing.
Just doing gens and nothing else isn't a viable option if the killer is good and gets his first down quick enough. Camping will 100% have to be nerfed if the healing nerfs go live, no doubt. Or we'll see a big spike in killer queue times, I am certain of that.
They will have to increase the hook phase duration from 60 seconds to at least 75 seconds, that's for sure.
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I think this is more than enough. You will see it much less, and most importantly, you won't encounter DH in your first chase, which is no doubt the most important chase. You will not have to worry about DH at all, until you get your first hook, which is where you start to gain more pressure.
I think this change is perfect honestly.
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Interesting idea but I fear that would have some big downsides to it. Survivors could just always wait with unhooking a survivor until they finish a gen. Of course that won't work for long, until the killers gets their second down, but I still think it could be problematic. But maybe not, hard to say.
You are absolutely right though that with this healing nerf, camping has to be nerfed in some way as well, and the fact that it's not in the ptb is hopefully just an oversight, or simply a means for BHVR to test just how impactful 24 second healing times will be.
I would simply increase survivors hook phase duration from 60 to 75 or 80 seconds, and remove hook grabs. That would definitely nerf camping and give survivors a fairer fighting chance aganist a camping killer. That plus the fact that longer healing times will also encourage the killer to not camp and tunnel could cause a noticeable reduction in camping and perhaps even tunneling.
Regarding your suggestion to encourage killers to not camp by blocking gens, I think that would be way too much. The much longer healing times will already encourage killers to not camp.
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@Caiman said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3383861#Comment_3383861
If BHVR really wants to go with 24 second heal times, then the hook phase duration needs to be increased from 60 seconds to at least 75 seconds, and hook grabs on healthy survivors need to be removed as well.
I can get behind this. Increasing hook times is fine. Some killers will camp through them anyway but the longer it is, the (deservedly) worse their experience will be. Hook grabs can go too, I don't care for them.
Exactly that's the idea. You will never be able to prevent killers from camping completely, but what BHVR wants to do now, especially with the nerf to healing, is making camping less effective.
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I very much disagree that the devs are removing everything that is strong. Yes, perks this update are getting hit hard, but we still have plenty of strong perks left. Plus I am not convinced that DH and Pain Resonance won't still be fairly decent after their nerfs.
The only nerf I dislike is the one to CoH, because it takes away the one part of the perk that particularly helped solo survivors. The healing nerf is more than enough already, CoH doesn't need another nerf beyond that.
I think the idea that BHVR has here is good, add some more slowdown to the killers basekit with the healing nerf, so that killers are rewarded more for playing well, and then nerfing the strongest slowdown perks, so they don't do as much work for killers. The execution probably just needs some improvements, especially considering the changes we need additionally, but aren't getting, like a nerf to mangled.
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If the healing nerfs go live, which I very much believe will happen, then the devs will have to nerf camping as well, otherwise it will be buffed indirectly because of healing nerfed, and that's not something they can afford if you ask me.
They surely can't just dedicate a patch to nerfing camping and tunneling however, and then call it a day. Survivor queue times on average are already longer than killer queue times, so that would have just made queue times worse.
The healing nerf however will hopefully give BHVR the opportunity to nerf at least camping more effectively, finally.
If BHVR really wants to go with 24 second heal times, then the hook phase duration needs to be increased from 60 seconds to at least 75 seconds, and hook grabs on healthy survivors need to be removed as well.
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BHVR certainly doesn't seem out of touch with the community to me. It's just that they are trying to balance the game a bit differently then most people might have imagined.
When it comes to the healing nerf, you have to take both that and the nerfs to the slowdown perks in consideration. The idea is to relocate some of the slowdown that these perks provide into the killers basekit, rewarding killers more for playing well and spreading damage properly, which also means they are more encouraged to go for chases and apply pressure, as opposed to tunneling and camping. Of course, camping is also indirectly buffed with the heal nerfs, but that problem is solved by also nerfing camping properly, which shouldn't be hard.
Some of these changes might be overkill. Maybe heal times of 20 seconds would be better. And some more needed changes are surely missing, like nerfs to mangled, or camping. But the direction BHVR wants to take DBD in is a good one if you ask me. Killers will slow down the game more simply by playing well, or they will cut their chase times in half if survivors choose to not heal. Meanwhile, they can not regress gens as crazily anymore, which should also nerf the 3 gen meta noticeably.
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@foodie said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3379570#Comment_3379570
But she is not getting any buff right now, is she?
And knowing that her last change was in 2018, are we going to wait 5 years for her buff?
I really doubt Hag of all killers is going to need any further buff with healing being nerfed.
If I understand correctly, strong healing items as well as CoH is what hurts Hag the most currently.
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The three slowdown perks being nerfed so hard is also because of the healing nerf. They are taking some of the slowdown potential from those slowdown perks and adding it to killers basekit.
And the more I think about it, the more I believe PR will still be a good perk, when also considering the healing nerf. Plus the nerf is perfect, as it will still help killers more early on during the game but not so much later anymore.
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@[Deleted User] said:
I hope everyone likes Sloppy/Thana on 24 second heals and 90 second gens, because you're going to be seeing it every other game minimum. The devs made Forever Freddy basekit. Absolutely brilliant.
I am absolutely positive they are going to change that before the patch goes live. Mangled in particular will not stay the way it is, and camping will also need to be nerfed in some way or form.
This is just the ptb. The direction of these changes are great, they just need more changes as compensation before the patch goes live.
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@Coffeecrashing said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3383265#Comment_3383265
The changes will only be good if they are the full 24 seconds. Having 20 second basekit healing won’t be enough for injuries to feel like they matter, especially if survivors start bringing more healing speed perks.
This game needs to encourage killers to chase survivors more. This requires healing speeds to be slow enough that survivors feel like it’s an inconvenience. If the healing nerfs are so weak that survivors are fine with it, then they won’t be enough to motivate killers to chase survivors more.
I would argue it should be 20 seconds, with healing speed perks maybe nerfed a litte. But maybe you are right. I do think that 20 seconds would be enough though to properly reward killers with injuries. I mean those are extra 4 seconds per injury. However, we'll see in the ptb.
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@Nirgendwohin said:
you might think that the one who aproves the decisions has no idea about his game. but maybe he himself would like to say a few words about the ideas behind all the changes.
I am not the one who approves these changes, but I am positive the idea here is to take some of the slowdown that the strongest slowdown perks provide, and add it into the basekit in a healthier way. Nerfing healing means killers can slow down the game more in a skillful way, by actually going for chases and spreading damage, and nerfing slowdown perks means killers can't just 3 gen like crazy anymore.
The execution might not be perfect, especially since certain compensation changes are missing, but the direction that BHVR is taking DBD in with this update is a good one in my opinion.
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@Iron_Cutlass said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3383268#Comment_3383268
I think nerfing self-healing specifically was the way to go, and having two Survivors waste time to heal one another should be incentivized heavily, especially since it makes them easier to pressure instead of having them all split apart.
I do hope that anti-healing is addressed with the PTB and update, I really do, just we are really left in the dark considering what information the Developer Update, so you can tell where this is coming from at least.
I disagree, I think a general healing nerf combined with heavy nerfs to the best regression perks is a helthy direction for the game, especially since it will make 3 gen much less of a common strategy. Altruistic healing will still be encouraged because medkits will have more limited uses now.
I think the changes are looking good, I just think they are a bit overkill. I would buff PR's regression to 20%, and reduce the healing time to 20 seconds. I think those values would be better. I would also not be surprised to find out that BHVR has 20 second healing times ready as a back up plan. But I doubt they are going to revert the healing nerf.
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@Patokiller said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3383242#Comment_3383242
Pain Ressonance nerf is bizarre, first because you must down a survivor to be able to use it, second because is not guaranteed you will have the Scourge Hooks close from where you are, a really think that maybe a cool down would be better, mainly to avoid camping and hooking another survivor on the same hook again.
Hurts me alot wasting time doing a long chase and then letting the survivor go and get healed after 10 seconds while I lost 2 gens. If you don´t wanna to get rushed as a killer you have 3 options: Corrupt Intervention (more defensive), Lethal Pursuir (more agressive) and Deadlock (that will give you 30 seconds to down someone before next gen pumps). A killer don´t have too many options when facing 12 other different perks full of second chances and massive add-ons that allows 25% of a gen or 3 heals in seconds. It´s insane bro... Take a look and see: Survivors playing with frinds laughing, listening music, telling jokes and in the other side you have a desperate player having 100% of attention because ONE little mistake can ruin his whole game. This is not balanced...
And before someone say that I don´t want people having fun with the game I want to say that ALL players should have fun, not just the survivors.
Well the problem with healing is being addressed in this patch. That's the point.
I think the changes in general are good. Just from early impressions, before even playing the ptb, I believe that the healing time should be 20 seconds, and PR should have it's regression buffed to 20%.
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Mangled and perks like Coulrophobia and Pentimento will 100% have to be looked into before the update goes live. And camping will also need to be nerfed in some way. But I do think the nerf to healing is a good change.
I like the changes that we are getting, but BHVR seems to overlook certain problems that such changes can cause, not addressing them as well.
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@TigerSnake said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3383224#Comment_3383224
Medkits are strong cause you don't have to find someone else to heal you, that part of its not been eliminated, and if anything, it's even more important to carry one around than it was before so you can suck through the 24-30 seconds by yourself instead of with someone else. Good luck snowballing with a trash can killer, especially if survivors play super safe to avoid the 1st hit even happening in the 1st place. The fact that you want the only complimentary "slowdown" killers are getting nerfed without any compensation like less severe nerfs to the 3 gen perks really tells me you don't know what you're talking about. Also, Pain Res is trash now cause a perk you can only use 4 times is stupid design, especially on one that already has flaws. Increasing regression won't improve that fact. Crazy how prominent the 3 gen butthurt is in this thread, especially when current Overcharge isn't even that good by itself. People just call anything killer's have that are good "unhealthy" lol.
Let's be honest here, you seem to be the most butthurt out of all people in this thread.
I have already explained why I think these changes are good. If you disagree, fine, but in the end it's just too bad for you. BHVR will surely still change things before this update goes live, but I doubt they will just revert the update and not go in the direction they clearly want to go in with this game.
The main reason why medkits are so strong is because you cut the time it takes to heal in half. Instead of two survivors healing for 16 seconds, only one survivor has to waste time healing for 16 seconds. But it gets even worse when people use addons like crazy.
Now that part hasn't changed, but by increasing heal times in general, and by greatly restricting how many times you can heal yourself with medkits, medkits will be less of a problem. That coupled with the fact that healing generally will take longer now, and killers will be able to apply much more pressure themselves by playing well. And as compensation, the best slowdown perks are all getting nerfed, which in my opinion is a good thing.
We'll have to wait and see how exactly this plays out on the ptb. I still believe 20 second healing time would be fairer, but who knows. I definitely like the direction that BHVR is going with these changes.
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@Aven_Fallen said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3383195#Comment_3383195
Dont really get how people cannot understand this.
Call of Brine is probably the best Perk when it comes to 3-genning (after Eruption got nerfed, before the Nerf Eruption was the best Perk for 3-genning). Gen gets kicked, Survivor gets chased away (most likely injured), they have to heal and when they come back, the Gen lost a lot of progress. Would be even more with nerfed Healing.
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3382565#Comment_3382565
Possible inflation due to the high use of Slowdown-Perks.
Yeah, it's just the usual overreaction to impactful changes that will affect the game's meta. It's both sides really. I find it fascinating to see both complaints about gen regression perks being nerfed hard and healing being nerfed to 24 seconds. It seems like both groups of people don't really see the big picture, considering all the changes together.
The healing nerf could be too much, but the idea is to add more slowdown to the killers basekit, and more skillful slowdown, because you have to play well as killer and spread damage to really get use of the increased healing speed, and take away some of the slowdown that perks provide, which should especially nerf the dreaded 3 gen meta.
I am still predicting that healing will end up at 20 seconds, and maybe PR will have it's regression buffed to 20%. I am fine with CoB and Overcharge being nerfed so hard however, as the 3 gen meta really isn't very fun, and I really like the rework of PR because it encourages going for different survivors. I think these changes are heading into the right direction, they probably will just need some more tweaks.
That and there are still some compensation changes that need to happen as well, mainly nerfs to camping and mangled, which will otherwise be buffed indirectly.
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@Veroles said:
The most obvious reason why this mid chapter will cause a lot of trouble (when it really will release like announced) is not the Circle of Healing change and not even Dead hard or the nerfed med kits. It is the fact that they don't adjusted those things which are relevant to compensate those changes. All what i can see until now is: Strong killers got buffed because chases become much more short, m1 and killers with huge preparation time got nerfed again because you can mostly easy genpressure them away. Blight, Nurse and Spirit (and also a lot of others like oni...) will keep those changes more than welcome, because those killers are chase killers and the more are injured, the bigger the snowball effect will become (especially in a world without dead hard + the sprint burst counter fearmonger).
There are a lot of nerfs and buffs in shadow, because this whole update affects so much that you not even can notice every single variable which changes with it. I also can imagine that hit and run wraith will be now one of the strongest killers. On survivor site it's a very risky change, because it does affect solo queue so heavy and SWF not really, because a SWF can manage their resources + communicate, but and solo queue can not. All in all i really appreciate the thought behind, which seems that they wanna bring more interactions between survivors. Nevertheless there is really really really much to adjust and to be honest, i don't even know where to start and where to end.
I would argue killers like Blight and Nurse can also get more value out of slowdown perks than M1 killers. I do not think that weak killers are getting hit, while stronger killers will become even stronger. I doubt that. Especially PR is already much stronger on killers like Blight or Nurse than on M1 killers. In fact, stealth killers will particularly benefit from the healing nerfs, and most of them aren't that strong at the moment.
I think the changes are good, but as you said, some compensation changes will have to happen as well. But I would argue the biggest problem in the ptb will be camping, because camping will just get buffed by the healing nerf, which is not good at all. They need to increase the hook phase duration finally, and remove hook grabs on healthy survivors.
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@TigerSnake said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3383195#Comment_3383195
”Heal nerfs” don’t slow down the game at all. 10 extra seconds to gens didn’t eliminate the need for gen regression, and 8-14 extra seconds for healing won’t do it either. You’re literally just making the killer role miserable and borderline unplayable. Course people won’t admit that cause of the 3 gen butthurt.
I definitely disagree with that. Even at the highest ranks, survivors still sometimes need to heal. And increasing the healing time will slow down the game. Those extra seconds will quickly add up. There is a reason why medkits in particular are so strong at the moment.
If survivors do not heal, then matches will indeed be quicker, but killers will also be able to end matches much quicker, by "kill rushing" survivors. You can easily snowball as killer if every survivor is 1-shot. Especially as a killer with some chase power, or as a stealth killer. Stealth killers aren't in the best place at the moment, but a nerf to healing will surely help them out in particular.
The execution might not be perfect, but I think the direction BHVR is going is a good one. I just think 24 seconds will be too much, 20 seconds would probably be more reasonable. But if I had to guess, I would say that BHVR already has a 20 second heal time as a back up plan ready. And they just want to see how far they can actually push the healing time with the ptb.
I do hope they buff the regression of PR as well a bit, to 20%.
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@Grum said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3382245#Comment_3382245
Or:
Only nerf self healing while keeping altruistic healing the same.
Also, why are you pretending that gen kicking regression is the only possible form of gen defense? As if we didn't have literally years of gen defense meta that encouraged actually chasing and downing people.
I see no reason to revert the healing nerf, and I doubt that will happen, considering the hard nerfs to the gen regression perks are probably because of the healing nerf.
It makes more sense to actually nerf camping as well. Increase the hook phase duration from 60 to 70 seconds. Or hell, even 75 or 80 seconds. If anything, this is a good chance to actually nerf camping, because longer hook phase durations also means survivors have more time to just rush gens.
They also need to remove hook grabs real bad. Such an outdated mechanic.
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All this drama, yet the game will still live on, even without you. The game is not slowly dying, not even close.
These changes are going to be tested on the ptb anyways, but it's nice that the devs are trying more drastic changes to change up the meta.
The idea of this update is really good. Longer heal times means killers slow down the game more with skillful gameplay, spreading damage, and slow down the game less with perks like CoB. 24 seconds might just be too much, but that will be tested on the ptb. My prediction is that they are going to settle with 20 seconds heal time.
But I think longer heal times are healthier than strong slowdown and regression perks that can cause gens to lose insane levels of progress.
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The heal nerfs without regression perk nerfs would be insane. Not a good idea at all. It's needed. Even if the devs settle for less than 24 seconds, gen regression perks, at least the 3 that are getting touched, would still need to be nerfed.
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@fulltonon said:
Eh solo queue players would be happy seeing CoB/overcharge combo dead, as it will tremendously help them when they need it most, which is 3 gen situations.
Healing nerfs wouldn't be as bad as it seems when all the slowdowns are this weak.
In general I agree, though 24 seconds seems a bit overkill if you ask me. But we'll when the ptb goes up.