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ad19970
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@nars said:
The med kit nerfs were needed. Self healing at altruism speed is just inherently broken. Self healing is already very powerful, as for altruism you need to spend time finding someone and then also get healed. Probably averaging out to 30~ seconds for solos, 25~ for swfs. Have a med kit? 16s and you get healed. if the killer just hit you and left for some extra pressure, they get 16 of 1 person and cant even act on it as their probably still looking around for someone. Injure pressure was so miniscule thanks to med kits that they directly made hit and run non viable.
CoH was just bad game design. One perk should not give everyone on your team self care and botany knowledge for FREE. Boons shouldnt have that level of power since their so easy to apply and appliable infinitely. Old CoH might have been balanced if it were token based, or took a full 30s to place, or if shattered hope was basekit on CoH totems. But none of that was true. So for 14s after finding a totem, something relatively simple, everyone has self care. Altruism healing was no longer something that existed unless by some chance you were grouped up in the boon. Everyone could just run over there and spend 32 seconds to self heal. You might say "but you said that it takes like 30s just to get an altruism heal anyways" yeah but 16s of that has 2 people off gens. Making for an effective 32s of potential progress lost. With CoH that extra survivor can be on gens while you spend 32s healing. So instead of losing that potential progress to get the heal, you get the heal in roughly the same amount of time while still getting the progress. And snuffing it didnt do much either. They know where the totem is, so they spend 20s to go reapply it and boom 8 more perk slots on the team.
but yeah med kits should just take really long the charges nerfs were stupid. The extra 8s was to compensate for the time gained since you dont need to find anyone, also making all med kits give at max 2 self heals is stupid. They shouldve just made it take a full 32s and left the addons alone imo.
Your point towards CoH doesn't make sense. First of all, it was so strong because you could self heal in approximately 21 seconds, not 32 seconds.
Increasing self heal to 32 seconds, or something similar, would have fixed that problem. One survivor healing for 32 seconds is exactly the same time waste as 2 survivors healing for 16 seconds. One survivor on a gen for 32 seconds is the same as two survivors on two gens for 16 seconds.
Self healing is completely fine as long as it takes enough time to do so. 21 seconds was just not long enough.
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I disagree on medkits, I think the nerfs were good. Although even slower heal speed at an exchange for more charges would definitely work as well.
When it comes to CoH, I kind of agree. I wish they would have just decreased self healing speed significantly instead of removing self healing completely.
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@Sharby said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3466101#Comment_3466101
Add-on pass he just got would say otherwise, though it seems to be a mostly neutral change.
If it stays as is, I would say I am satisfied since reduction of overclock duration should help out a lot with the issues I was having vs this killer.
In regards to safe loops, I definitely think there should be very safe loops in the game, the biggest problem is when they are easily chain-able or too common like on The-Game or Garden of Joy.
Killers innately have priority in unsafe loops due to bloodlust among other things, so it would get old fast if every loop was unsafe.
I don't disagree with you in thinking his power should remain impactful to keep his strength at a good level, nobody likes an F-Tier killer. My opinion is that I prefer infrequent power usage that's more meaningful over a more spammy playstyle since I personally believe it leads to more skill-based gameplay.
Yes the nerf to his addon that increases overclock duration is a good nerf if you ask me, as that addon could sometimes take a bit too much counterplay away. If you ask me, they should just rework that addon. The only addon I am now a bit worried about is the haste addon, which saw a big buff. That addon might end up being a bit too strong.
If most loops were better designed, we could get rid of bloodlust. Bloodlust only helps when the killer already isn't doing that great, at least normally. But I do agree that maps should have a few safe pallets, it's just that right now a lot of maps have too many of those. The bigger reason for bloodlust however are windows that would still be too strong without it.
I can understand your preference towards less spammy killer powers, but Singularity needs that aspect, or he'd be in a rough spot again. I would also argue that despite this, Singularity is one of the more skillful killers to use, with an especially high skill ceiling. I think Singularity is in a great spot now, especially with the addon changes.
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His overclock duration addon getting nerfed is a good thing. It decreased counterplay on the survivors side a bit too much in my opinion. It also looks like some of his addons got buffed, not nerfed, so I don't think it's fair to say his adons only got nerfed.
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@Sharby said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3465815#Comment_3465815
10% hinder is a death sentence against any competent killer player. Especially since its basekit. I will agree that you can still use it against most players though, but I don't have an issue against the killer when he's played by someone average/below average. So I'm not referring to that as I can handle him.
It works -sometimes-, and that's my issue, I personally do not enjoy diceroll gameplay. And Hux is riddled with it. T-L walls do work the most against him, I agree, but T-L walls are gambles by nature (which is fine, that's how they were designed.) I do not enjoy him extending that nature to most loops in the game.
Against Knight, good pathing avoids a lot of situations where he can pincer me with his guard due to how the AI works, there are plenty of loops that Knight can't really control.
Against Skull-Merchant, her power does nothing if I am already injured, and is mostly useful for gen control, but even in a fresh chase, it doesn't deny much due to the windup on the expose.
Against Singularity though? If he waits until I'm under a pallet and TP's, I'm screwed, I can't make enough distance to get to another loop since he's not slowed very long, I can't pre-drop in that case. Which again, I'm totally okay with, he used his power well and gets a well-deserved hit. And in some contexts, there are resources to handle it. But my issue starts when if I managed to outplay it, he just does it again a few moments later and again its back to the 25-75 at the loop. I dislike it, it feels very cheap to be honest.
Spirit also makes chases a gamble, but I don't mind her nearly as much because at least if I win the phasing game, I get rewarded big time with distance since she's slower by default and has a decent timer on her power.
I compared him to Knight and SM because like them I feel like his gameplay pattern is very uninspired anti-loop that keeps getting released.
I mean it's fine not to like certain killers. Everyone has certain killers they do not enjoy going against. But I doubt that Hux will see any nerfs in the future.
Also, him extending most loops to "gambles" is kind of the point of his power. Ideally, the majority of loops should be "gambles", or mindgameable, since that's when both sides have counterplay. Killers want to have fun too, you know. Survivors being safe just takes away counterplay that killers have.
Him being able to stay on top of you with his teleports is also necessary, since he is a chase killer. If he loses that, he'll just end up in low tier again.
Also, I have no idea how good killers are always able to get a hit against a survivor because of the 10% slowdown. At loops, or with enough distance, you can still use EMP's perfectly fine. The killers skill won't play a big role in that.
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I disagree. First of all, EMP's can definitely still be used in chase, you just need to be a bit more mindful about it.
Second, predropping works sometimes, even if it doesn't gain you as much distance as against other killers. Windows are also still useful against him, tiles like T-L walls are actually pretty decent against him.
Also, if you are at a loop, and he teleports, sometimes the best thing to do is to not drop the pallet but just keep looping the loop. Depending on the loop size, you will have enough distance to him to make it back to the pallet after he loses his overclock, at least in my experience.
He is strong in chase, which is a good thing, but he does still have some counterplay.
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I disagree that almost every pallet is safe. It does have a fair amount of mindgameable pallets, depending on rng of course, but it does have too many safe pallets in addition as well.
But the map is indeed huge and has an incredibly strong main building. In my opinion Cowshed, Mother's Dwelling and Borgo are even worse, but Garden of Joy sure as hell is a terribly unbalanced map.
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@sizzlingmario4 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3455494#Comment_3455494
They said the slowdown will be 10%. That's pretty strong.
True, but that sounds like it will be fine. I was scared it would be something like 20% or so. 10 I think will be manageable.
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I think with the upcoming changes, he will still be fine. The changes should put him into a good state. But it does depend on how strong the slow is going to be. I hope it won't be too much.
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@Luckyfer said:
I like how many of you came to his defence,knowing fully well how busted and in desperate need of nerfs he is.
It is truly sad you guys take that mistake of a killer's defence.
But it is what it is,it's not only the developers that kill this game slowly,but the community aswell,especially the killer community.
Actually, people know how balanced Wesker is in general, which is why they are defending him. Pretty simple logic actually.
If you think killers like Wesker are the reason this game is dying slowly, which it really isn't. The game has actual problematic killer designs, and other problematic aspects, like tunneling and camping. Wesker isn't one of those problems.
Most people simply disagree with you, and think Wesker is balanced.
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I kind of wish that on top of being able to unhook yourself, when the bar fills up, the hook timer would also be paused for a bit, to really make sure this change nerfs camping enough. So if you choose to not unhook yourself, you can just wait on the hook and make sure the killer is wasting even more time.
The fact that sometimes camping is the only way to secure a kill against really good swf teams is a seperate problem in my opinion, which should be addressed in a more healthy way. Ideally by balancing maps better, but who knows if that will ever happen properly.
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@Adjatha said:
And then they nerfed PH three times in three weeks after release, and gave him the worst set of addons of any killer in the game, all for the crime of his cages being able to side step DS and Borrowed Time. To this day, he's still the most over-hyped killer in the game and people are still demanding that they be allowed to use their perks through the cages.
His cages still make tunneling too easy, that's why people want perks to work with cages.
PH is an incredibly strong killer still. While he has counterplay in chases, it's certainly more limited than that of many other killers. And he can get hits almost constantly due to ignoring any type of obstacle.
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Very well organized survivor teams can go through gens very quickly though, if you as killer don't get downs frequently constantly. So it can definitely feel like gens go too fast.
I do think that map design is the biggest problem here however. If BHVR continues working on maps, making them more balanced, with less overpowered loops, and not too big sizes, less people will complain about gen rush as well, because killers now will have a fairer chance at keeping up with gens.
Of course, the devs need to be careful to not make maps killer sided as well, especially by having gens too close to each other.
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@egg_ said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3421405#Comment_3421405
If you can't figure out by yourself how a killer that can permanently lock from the beginning of the game an area making it impossible for survivors to progress the game is bad design, i don't know what to say tbh
Oh dear lord. To be fair, I should have expected a response like this.
Of course I understand possible problems with this killer. That was not the point. It's about subjectivity vs objectivity. What if someone likes the back and forth gameplay that Skull Merchant offers? Obviously that seems rather unlikely but still. Or more realistically, what if someone thinks she is still well designed despite certain flaws she has?
Again, the opinion of the majority is not the same as objectivity.
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@Pulsar said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3419285#Comment_3419285
No, it's objective.
Her design is bad. It should never be done again and the game would be better off is SM was removed.
Then I am curious, what exactly are the facts that make her objectively bad? Because if she is objectively bad, you must have facts to prove such a point.
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@thrawn3054 said:
You're allowed to be wrong.
People are allowed to have differing opinions, doesn't mean they are wrong.
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@Pulsar said:
"Numerous strategies"
Yeah, she can put up numerous Drones on gens and hold games hostage.
She's the worst designed Killer. You can say you like her, that's fine. But she's OBJECTIVELY poorly designed in almost every aspect. Even her lore is #########.
People are allowed to think she is well designed. It's subjective, not objective.
Do not confuse the opinions of the majority for objective facts.
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@Devil_hit11 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3412237#Comment_3412237
better than others is under-statement. if you actually watched any of tru3's "crazy" teams, he losing generators in <6 minutes against same calibur level as himself. I don't think you understand how fast it is to lose 5 gens in 6 minutes. In fact, I have never seen otz post a game where the team is doing gens in 6 minutes. To get an idea for how fast this, this game which tru3 played 4 weeks ago is example of his crazy teams.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MrHjGeojco0&t=1s
The video is titled, "Why don't killer want a challenge?". its mildly mocking survivor mains but 6 minute games is killer getting 2-3 hooks. Its why tru3 doesn't play dbd anymore. He dislikes that he plays against baby mode survivors when he loses vs crazy teams and his crazy teams that of same skill-level as him are unwinnable games. The dev don't really balance killer powers or the game around his level of play. One aspect that tru3 has always stated about him playing killer is that he DISLIKES playing for survivor's fun. He does not like being a puppet, an AI-killer bot for survivor. Tru3's crazy team are legit comp-level type SWF's.
Not really a good example of a video, to be honest. Also, why do we assume tru3 is the very top level of DBD players? He is good, don't get me wrong, but not one of the best. He wastes quite a bit of time near the hooked survivors in this video, and gets outplayed multiple times.
Also, I think barely anyone thinks that Torment Creek is a balanced map, especially with the RNG that he had.
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@Veinslay said:
If you're a semi-decent killer, you're going to get matched against majority SWF because solos can't push high MMR because they don't escape enough.
If you play solo survivor exclusively, you'll get primarily matched in full solo lobbies where you have less chance of escaping.
Of course this doesn't apply if you're a fog whisperer/big content creator cause BHVR did something to the matchmaking to deal with the DDOSing/hackers. Those players get fed a steady stream of complete babies to beat on while average killer players get the pleasure of playing with the 10k hour SWFs and bully squads
I would kind of hope that second part is a joke, but I doubt it is.
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I do think that removing grabs of healthy survivors on gens is unnecessary. Your compensation changes would definitely be good though, but personally, I do not see a problem with gen grabs.
When it comes to hook grabs, I 100% agree. It's an insanely outdated mechanic that should have been removed a long time ago, and to me it's a bit insane it hasn't yet. In 99% of all cases, hook grabs only benefit camping killers, which is not good at all. Meanwhile, if a survivor is just going for a unhook while being chased, downing the unhooking survivor is more than enough for the killer to keep pressure going, because they pretty much still get a free down for nothing.
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Wait, are people still review bombing the game? Lmao what? I thought that was because of the nerfed altruistic healing, which BHVR reverted.
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@Marius1234456918 said:
Idk why everyone is so pissed about sloppy its an 20% speed decrease for healing. That means if you heal 24 sec normal then with sloppy on you you need 28.4. That doesn't Sound op to me i wouldnt even waste a perk slot for it. I m 4.8 sec longer heals i would say in 1 out of 10 cases it could make a differens and allow you to down someone.
Pretty sure it's 30 seconds. 24/0,8 = 30. Which is definitely quite some time considering old Self Care used to take 32 seconds. I can definitely see the argument for removing the hemorrhage effect of Sloppy. Now that healing has become a bigger source of slowdown for killers, 20% decreased healing speed plus hemorrhage could be pretty oppressive.
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@DaddyMyers_Mori said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3404932#Comment_3404932
When I said it's necessary? I just said alternative playstyles got nerfed, so if you want to win the game as a killer, tunneling is best way left.
It can feel necessary on lower tier killers, but hey if you play them, you should expect to lose. But most players want to win anyway, so they try hard.
Hey, nerf everything else except tunneling, then show Pikachu face when killers tunnel.
Problem is that is not so easy to fix. So far I have yet to see fix that couldn't be abused or wouldn't destroy half of the roaster without touching best killers.
Proxy camping and tunneling are simply best way to win at this moment. It's not complicated. There is no alternative even close to it.
If you straight nerf those, well, enjoy your even longer queue times :D.
Survivors are saying how everyone is leaving and just lots of copium.
Every evening killers still have 100% BP bonus with way faster queue times. And sorry to disappoint everyone, this is not about MMR, because it's not account related. MMR is killer specific.
Queue times have been pretty even right now. I find survivor matches almost instantly as well.
You are right, tunneling and camping are some of the most effective strategies in the game, maybe even the only two. But I disagree that they are much better than any other strategy. Spreading pressure and going for chases, as long as you know how to apply enough pressure, can still be very effective too, and have not been nerfed as much as you seem to think, in my opinion. These strategies are just generally much more challenging, requiring more skill. That's why many killers like to resort to tunneling and camping, they just take so much less skill.
The healing changes however, in my opinion, were even more impactful than the regression nerfs, as killers still have some decent slowdown perks, just not as good as the three regression perks that got nerfed. But again, the healing changes more than make up for it in my experience.
Nerfing tunneling and camping into the ground without giving killers compensation would surely increase survivor queue times too much. We need both nerfs to camping and tunneling, and then either more, proper balance changes to maps, or some form of early game slowdown.
However, I do think that right now, after this patch, survivors will need at least a bit of help again. Something as easy as increasing the hook phase duration from 60 to 70 seconds, or maybe some further information buffs to solo survivors, maybe one that makes it easier for them to find other survivors to heal up.
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I disagree, for the simple fact that there are too many good reasons for survivors to suicide on hook. If a match is obviously lost for example, there are times where you do not want to waste any more time in the match.
Then there are matches where you have teammates that are just trolling or throwing the match on purpose. And of course there is also broken crap like Nurse still in the game. I generally do not condone rage quitting against any killer, even the ones you dislike going against, but against something like Nurse, or Alchemist Ring Blight, I can definitely understand why people would want to go on to the next match.
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Boy would I love to see DS go back to 5 second stuns.
I do think that killers won in this midchapter update, the self healing nerf is very noticeable. So my hopes are that we will see some more improvements to solo queue, and/or nerfs to tunneling and camping in the near future.
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@DaddyMyers_Mori said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3404533#Comment_3404533
Face camping made you unable to play the game.
You can play the game against tunneling killer.
Gen regression perks got nerfed a lot, so I can see why killers who want to win their game tunnel more.
Like what is your alternative except losing the game?
3-gen was good alternative, it was nerfed a lot.
End game builds was good alternative, also nerfed.
Camping, nerfed.
Hit&run got kinda back with healing nerfs, but only few killers can use this.
Some killers were playing friendly because of BBQ and were basically greedy for extra BP. But that's gone.
What reason killer actually have to hook new survivor, when he has 1/2 survivors on deadhook? It gives him very little pressure compare to killing a survivor.
Unless you make an alternative strategies as effective, you will see mainly tunneling. It's not really difficult concept.
Pretty much every killer has definitely benefited from the healing nerfs. Killers are now able to apply map pressure much better.
I do not see how tunneling and camping have become more necessary just because of the nerfs to the three most used gen regression perks. If anything, they have become less necessary, opening up the possibility for BHVR to nerf those strategies a bit more. I would love to see some nerfs to those strategies.
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@Madimews said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3404154#Comment_3404154
Made me laugh, even some killer mains are stopping playing because the patch is so one sided. The only people who like this patch is bad killer players
Which killer mains exactly? Would love to know. Because to me it sounds more like copium for you in order to be able to deal with the fact that despite how bad the patch is in your opinion, queue times for both roles have been almost instant. Which suggests most people aren't as unhappy.
I can promise you it's not only bad killers that like this patch. That's just you acting like a little kid, immediately throwing around ridiculous accusations because people aren't agreeing with you.
I actually do expect killer queue times to increase within the next few weeks, solo survivors are next in line now for some more improvements in my opinion. It would be nice for solo survivors to have an easier time finding each other for healing, for example. I would also love a nerf to camping.
But that's it, the game will still have a good amount of survivor and killer players.
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@LaVieEnRose said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3404152#Comment_3404152
Most people as in killers. No survivor only player is going to be happy with these medkit and boone nerfs. The game play changes significantly when someone can't self heal on occasion, I always had a medkit but only for when I absolutely couldn't find someone else to heal me, like when you are the last survivor left. Finding a medkit in a chest now is basically useless. If the game wanted to get rid of survivors then it worked. If you want some killer perks back sure that's fine, I honestly think the game is way too imbalanced now.
No, I am positive there are many survivor players that also agree that these changes were good, since medkits were busted before the update.
Also, you say that it worked if the game wanted to get rid of survivors, yet killer queues as of now are still instant. Could you explain to me how exactly that works? You actually seem pretty delusional if I am going to be honest.
Now, I do think that some more solo queue improvements should happen next. I would love a nerf to camping, and I would love to see a nerfed Bond for injured survivors, and a very nerfed empathy for all survivors, so that injured solo survivors could find each other more easily.
I do expect killer queue times to increase over the weeks, but yeah, I doubt the game will lose it's entire survivor playerbase. You'll be disappointed.
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Just because a small minority doesn't like the changes doesn't mean they are going to revert the changes.
The self healing nerf is incredibly healthy for the game. If anything, Bhvr now needs to figure out a way for solo survivors to find each other more easily when injured.
I am sure the devs will continue monitoring the game, and make more adjustments in the future. I could see sloppy losing the hemorrhage effect, for example. But personally I do not think that perk is op. And knock out is just generally a badly designed perk.
If anything though, the devs will want to look into ways to nerf tunneling and camping. But surely not go a step back by simply reverting the changes.
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@Aaronseuk said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3404079#Comment_3404079
The point of these nerfs is to not self-heal.
I’m pretty sure they will undo a lot of this, I won’t be playing until they do.
If was in charge, I’d make everything ‘strong’ on both sides, to give more gameplay, not smack it all out so everything is tedious and boring, and presses gameplay style.
They are definitely not going to undo the healing changes, I am certain. Most people are very happy with the changes. The only change i could imagine happening is giving some medkits more charges again, but thats it.
The idea of this patch is to reward killers more for spreading damage, which is a healthy change.
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At some point one really wonders if these posts are meant seriously or just trolls.
But lets say it's meant serious, no one cares. If anything, this will just even out queue times a bit more.
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These do seem like fair suggestions, though making a survivor invincible will of course never work.
However, all these suggested changes for the next midsummer patch without a bunch of killer buffs will just cause astronomically high queue times for survivor.
Tunneling and camping need to be nerfed, no doubt, but not without buffs to killers as well, making the more normal playstyle fairer. That could happen by adding some early game slowdown, but the best solution would probably be to balance maps much better, so that killers generally have a fairer chance at keeping up with gen times. However the latter in particular would still take a lot of work.
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Oh this will definitely help Skull Merchant a little bit with her drones.
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@Gandor said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3400897#Comment_3400897
Gideon is killer sided. Once they changed it from 34 pallets to 25, it's generally killer sided. Especially for nurse, nemesis and legion w certain build + it suffers from indoor map complex. Even Otz agrees to this.
Rotten fields have 7 pallets and so are also killer sided.
Family residence is survivor sided in what realm? Torment has very low density of things to loop making it easy for huge number of killers to get hit before u can move to another one (exactly the opposite of what OP said btw).
Blood lodge and gas heaven are just getting rework to make it easier for killers.
Suffo has one of the most nasty 3gens no matter what - which survivors can't even identify from a get-go. So again. Free killer win if he decides to camp it.
Shelter has main, shack and filler pallets. 1/2 of the map is totally killer sided, the other is surv sided. I have no idea how you can say it's just surv sided map.
Also if all the maps are so much survivor sided. How is it possible, that killers for a long time now have above 60% kill rate? This does not compute.
They are survivor sided at a very high level of play. Not in general though.
Rotten Fields is definitely not killer sided, it's big enough and has enough strong loops. But I would argue it's pretty balanced for both sides, depending on RNG of course. Same goes for Family Residence. Shelter is also survivor sided now in my opinion, it has far more pallets, all the filler pallets being strong enough, and a good main building as well.
The best that BHVR could do is to make maps fairer, especially maps like Fractured Cowshed, Badham maps or the new Knight map, and then nerf camping and tunneling, so playing killer normally is rewarded more, and playing killer by camping and tunneling is rewarded less.
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Pretty positive the vast majority of the community likes Oni a lot, including survivor players. He is one of the most balanced killers in the game if you ask me. And while his demon dash is very strong, it certainly has counterplay.
I am positive he won't be seeing any balance changes any time soon.
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@jajay119 said:
I hope so. Can't stand him.
Just because a few people don't like him is no reason for the devs to not consider Dredge in maps anymore. This game isn't only designed for you. Many people enjoy Dredge.
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@BlightedDolphin said:
Even the new Red Forest maps have terrible locker spawns. Largest map in the game and yet the map has almost no lockers.
The newest maps don't really take any killer into consideration. Terrible locker spawns, Trapper has lost most of his grass, random objects placed everywhere now so killers like Hillbilly can't even traverse the map, collision is so bad that Blight slides off everything yet Wesker and Demo get caught on everything, multiple safe loops chaining into each other so M1 killers can't catch you, massive open fields so stealth killers are easily spotted, super powerful main buildings and shacks surrounded by multiple strong loops.
Their new map designs are just awful.
How do these people stay in charge though despite such little competence? To be fair, I do think they did a good job with the Eyrie of Crows rework. But that's kind of it.
And looking at the new reworked autoheaven maps, the devs seem to have forgotten again that Dredge exists. Very few lockers if any can be seen on those maps. It's honestly a bit sad, because it doesn't take that much brainpower to remember that certain killers exist, and that maps need to be designed with those killers in mind.
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@Aven_Fallen said:
Thx for creating an account and letting us know.
And yep - skill issue. SWF is not the reason for your losses, it is most likely you making mistakes blaming SWF because it is too hard to think "Hm.. Maybe I did not play THAT well".
It's not always that. So many maps in this game are still just terribly designed and give survivors advantges they shouldn't have. Though that is always also killer dependent.
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@DBDVulture said:
"Actually penalize tunneling and camping"
How do you plan to prevent survivors tunneling generators?
The problem with your post is that you want to eradicate killer tunneling and have no idea that survivor tunneling exists or is even a problem.
I'll let you in on a secret. When playing Killer I tunnel because the survivors tunnel my gens.
Just because you call survivors doing gens tunneling doesn't mean it's the same thing. It isn't.
Obviously camping and tunneling nerfs can only come with buffs to killers as well, ideally a rebalance of a lot of maps, or some early game slowdown. Survivors doing gens is still not the same as killers focusing one survivor out of the game from a design perspective.
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@Pulsar said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3396597#Comment_3396597
I think CoH could meet in the middle and be 75%.
Still impactful but not crazy.
Yeah I would definitely agree with that. Obviously even at 100% it won't be as efficient anymore, because now you always have two survivors running to the healing zone of CoH, which also almost always wastes time. But 75% would probably be the sweet spot.
But we'll see. The Medkit nerf is still the most impactful change in this update, along with the nerfs to CoB and Overcharge.
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@Pulsar said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3396531#Comment_3396531
DH can't be used in first chase. It can't be used more than twice. It deactivates upon any activation. It still causes Exhaustion.
CoH lost the single most powerful effect in the game.
Med-Kits can't heal you fast nor can they heal you 5 times. 24 second heals are no joke.
You can think the nerfs weren't enough but to not call them hard nerfs is actually lunacy. Killer got some major buffs this patch.
While I wouldn't call these changes major buffs to killers, I do think some people are underestimating the nerf to medkits. I have been having so many matches lately with survivors running crazy medkits, undoing the damage I have done so quickly. I am not sure CoH should have returned to 100%, but those nerfs to medkits will definitely be impactful.
Sloppy will for sure be one of the new meta perks.
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@SeeZzer said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3396162#Comment_3396162
I mean back then, I was able to loop 2 - 3 gens against a hardcore killer without any problems. Some mindgames and everything was fine. But right now, I am just looping 1 tile and that's it. There is no time to run to another tile when the killer understands what I am doing.
Is it even possible to loop like before the big update back then?
I mean at least some maps have seen improvements to their design, not favoring survivors as much anymore. So in that sense, looping has gotten a bit harder for survivors. Still very dependable on what map you are playing on, and what killer you are facing. Maps like the new Knight map are still insanely survivor sided.
So maybe that's the difference you are experiencing. Looping itself, at base, hasn't been changed however. Except for those small killer buffs from the 6.1.0 update.
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@stvnhthr said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3394802#Comment_3394802
Nope, not the response type I'm looking for. If you did not understand, I'm not looking for a bunch of arguments why you do not believe the facts. ALL sites which tract the game's results show killers routinely get the most points and less than half the time a survivor escapes. Those are facts. You can ignore them in your own head, but facts be facts. The discussion is what ideas which are routinely ignored but continuously come up would you like to see in the game. I gave two examples. Looking for more.
Lmao you came here to post your opinion on the game's balance, and then don't want to see anyone who disagrees with you, because you live in delusion that your opinions are facts? And all because they are based on stats that the devs themselves said you shouldn't take for granted when it comes to the game's balance?
The game is not killer sided, and your opinion that it is killer sided is not a fact at all. Whether you want to accept that or not.
How about another fact though. Currently queue times for survivors are worse on average than killer.
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@sizzlingmario4 said:
They also changed DH, it now also activates if you unhook yourself too. Which means it goes well with Deliverance.
It also just says it deactivates now after use and not on successful use, I think this means you won't get to try again if you fail like what was originally mentioned.
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/U33PI337TYZ0/image-2023-03-29-095522869.png
I hope that's only a mistake and it only deactivates on a succesful use, or it would really be nerfed too hard.
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@[Deleted User] said:
Agreed. They're kind of failing to anticipate how strong anti-heal perks are going to be at 24 second base healing. Sloppy will be way too strong, and Thana+Dying Light already makes the pacing feel awful on 90 second gens. We're going to reach a point where every survivor action feels like it takes an excruciatingly long time.
24 second self heals are fine. The CoH and medkit changes are fine. But altruistic healing didn't need to get slower. That was not the issue. Games are already lasting way too long on average IMO. We definitely don't need a return of the hit and run playstyle.
Altruistic heals being nerfed is because of the harsh nerfs to the main regression perks. If they revert the healing nerfs, they will also have to revert, or at least ease up on the nerfs of the slowdown perks, which I doubt they'll do.
The problem with anti-healing perks is a seperate issue. Mangled will 100% need to be nerfed to 10% for example, and perks like Pentimento and Coulrophobia will also need to be nerfed.
I don't think Thana will need a nerf however. Only 1 survivor has to be healed for it to have very low values.
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@Coffeecrashing said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/369635/high-mmr-is-going-to-be-hell
The worst part is we might not even get the full healing nerf. Of course, the killer nerfs like call of brine and overcharge will go through, but due to popular demand the altruistic healing speed nerf might not happen. So killers will get to suffer the gen kicking regression perks, but survivors might get to shrug off their healing nerfs due to popular demand. So get ready for another miserable meta for killer, where gen regression is garbage and chases still won't matter.
I really doubt they will revert the healing nerf but not ease up on the gen regression nerfs in that case. Unless they want to cause long juicy queue times for survivors, since they are already longer than killer queue times.
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@AmpersandUnderscore said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3384619#Comment_3384619
SWF: "I could use a heal." "Ok, I'm about to finish the gen clockwise from shack, I'll heal you up and we can finish it together."
Solo survivor A: wanders around the map for 45 seconds before finding someone to heal them. Forgot to equip bond in the lobby.
Solo survivor B: brought self care and wastes 60 seconds healing with sloppy, is interrupted by the killer and loses all progress instantly.
Solo survivor C: boons a totem with circle of healing. Stands still spamming crouch, doing nothing, until someone leaves what they're doing to cross the map and heal them in the boon.
Solo survivor D: plans to just stay injured and work on gens, but can't communicate this to the others mid game. Their teammate follows them around with the intent to heal, but not accomplishing anything useful because they're annoyed 'the other guy isn't letting them heal'. The teammate throws a pallet and vaults it until survivor D allows them to finally heal them, deleting their resilience buff.
SWF impact is the extra 8 seconds of healing. Solo impact is magnified tremendously by the fact that you can't coordinate with your teammates, and everyone has a different plan most of the time.
How is that different from right now? I don't get it. The CoH nerf sure. But the altruistic nerf affects both swf and solo survivors.
They just need to revert the CoH nerf, because the healing nerf will already indirectly nerf CoH enough. And buff Self Care to be fair, though people not knowing to not equip that perk is a seperate issue.
Also, that last point is ridiculous. What does someone not understanding that a survivor doesn't want to heal have anything to do with balance?
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@Pulsar said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3384220#Comment_3384220
As killer? Sure, I'll play. I'll probably be disappointed at how easy it is, but I'll definitely give it a shot. Maybe I'll be wrong.
As Survivor though? Nah. Pretty much all of those changes massacre solo q players.
i am curious how exactly these changes massacre solos? Because the only change I can see that is really bad for solo is the CoH nerf, which is completely unnecessary in my opinion. Every other change affects swf more.
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@Spare_Them_Mori_Me said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3384570#Comment_3384570
'Need' to be nerfed? While I agree, are there plans already? I haven't read anything I think :/ I need to know!
Edit: Grammar
No definitely not. I just can't imagine camping not being touched on if these healing nerfs stay. Maybe I am wrong, maybe it won't buff camping in any particular way. But I very much believe it will, and I can't imagine BHVR wanting that.
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@Coffeecrashing said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3384559#Comment_3384559
I don’t think we should move the healing to 20 seconds, just because it’s a popular opinion. Games have 4 survivors to every 1 killer, and it’s so easy for survivor opinions to become the majority.
Game balance decisions should be made depending on what is best for the game, and not just because a suggestion is popular.
Well sure, and I am sure BHVR is aware of the ratio between survivor and killer players. But if the feedback becomes too overwhelmingly negative regarding the healing nerf, then I do think it would be smart to decrease the healing to 20 seconds.
We'll see how it will be in the ptb later this day, but I as well could very well imagine 24 seconds being overkill. I still love the direction that BHVR is going with this game however.