Zaytex
Zaytex
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@burt0r said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1825830#Comment_1825830
Ehm that's why survivor hop into lockers?
Killer gets 3 options now,
1. grab them and eat it (depending on the amount of generators done, the best one)
2. Camp them for one minute and lose the game
3. Leave them and let them use it on their second hook and letting them go, free of punishment.
Yeah and all those options suck for the killer. Survivors can have DS up and not even be tunnelled at all but spam getting in and out of a locker once the killer even goes towards them.
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@NomiNomad said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1824194#Comment_1824194
Not at all. DS isn't just used to stop tunneling, everyone knows that. As an anti-tunneling tool, it's actually not that great. A killer that is actually tunneling with just eat the DS and still tunnel you down. The anti-momentum part of DS is uncounterable. There have been times where I have downed and hooked multiple people, gone back to find that person I hooked first working on a gen, so I down them. They're injured and have probably been working on that generator since the minute they got unhooked. I pick them up, still get hit with DS. How is that tunneling? That's just pushing me for doing my objective. DS enables survivors to get free progress on the game, something that killers can't stop unless they down them. Unbreakable negates that. That's my personal issue with DS. As an actual anti-tunneling tool, it sucks. Most people only use it to punish the killer for doing their objective. At least in my experience.
Unless the killer is slugging at five gens right off the bat, it's not toxic.
Then you have the fact that if you're actually getting tunnelled, the perk only lasts 60 seconds, punishing the survivor for evading the killer for the period of time after that, almost promoting the idea of letting yourself getting downed so you can use it.
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@Perfectnomad said:
Nah, corrupt doesn't do anything. You still find one survivor, do a chase, and they still find a way to do gens. How will this be fixed to keep killers playing?
You're not using it right then. The strength of Corrupt Intervention is it minimises the active generators from seven to four, making the killers job significantly easier for the allocated time to defend the generators and hopefully secure a down or chase.
CI does absolutely nothing if you ignore what the other three survivors are doing, as the killer you need to prioritise defending generators over securing downs at the early game, which a lot of people do not realise.
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@Rin_is_my_waifu said:
There is nothing more broken than DS+UB x4. Slug the survivor? He gets up. Take the stun? He is free to go to the nearest loop. Add x4 BT and DH to the mix and all the team is invincible.
At least you can easily counter Ruin + Undying with small game or detective's hunch, but I know you can't play without your second chance perks.
Also, these two combos are not even comparable to each other. The survivor combo is way stronger than the killer one.
This.
Ruin/Undying has LITERAL counters in the form of totem perks, patrolling the map for totems, or even bringing a map with reach add-ons. It's so exaggerated how oppressive ruin/undying is when bringing any of these countermeasures makes totems get cleansed extremely fast.
And let's not forget how totem placements are usually trash and undying can be cleansed first, negating the combo, whilst DS/UB has no counter other than letting the survivor... survive, which is counter-intuitive to the killer's goal.
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Great ideas, a lot of them would be really good.
For my own, I personally want Decisive Strike changed the most, since it's supposedly designed with an anti-tunnel basis behind it, but fails to do this and just gives the survivor a free minute of invulnerability.
Decisive Strike:
-Cooldown decreased to 30 seconds.
-Whilst being chased by the killer, the cooldown of Decisive Strike does NOT go down
-Outside of a chase, the cooldown decreases and the perk expires after 30 seconds.
-If a survivor repairs a generator, heals another survivor, heals themselves, unhooks another survivor or makes any action to progress the game forward, Decisive Strike deactivates.
-If downed with Decisive Strike active, the cool down decreases a normal, giving the survivor 30 seconds to pick themselves up.
There, it's cermented as an anti-tunnel perk and there's no reason to ever complain about it anymore.
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I'm just going to say that I think a lot of people who think mori's are useless are also the people who underestimate or downplay the strength of Decisive Strike with the usual ''Just Dont Tunnel 5head'' argument, even though the perk is just a free minute of do whatever you want rather than actual anti-tunnelling.
If you seriously think that AN OFFERING (not a perk, not even an add-on, an offering) that counters one of the most powerful and oppressive survivors perks in the game is bordeline useless, I don't know what you tell you, really.
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There's no reason not to bring it if you want the strongest perks. It gives you basically two minutes of invulnerability (1 minute x 2 for each hook stage) where the killer can only slug you (unless you bring UB) or pick you up, only to let you get away.
He can still tunnel you after but a DS stunning the killer ruins so much of their pressure and is game-changing.
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@EvanSnowWolf said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1822675#Comment_1822675
The arguments being made for it are tiny.
Explain to me the relevance of Unbreakable if I down you and want to kill you. The perk only does anything if I walk away.
Decisive Strike means nothing if I haven't had you on a hook for the last 59 seconds.
These are both extremely avoidable situations unless the Killer in question is tunneling hard.
I was including UB as it is usually used with DS.
Also, the whole discussion around killers just needing to ignore DS is such a flawed argument. I've been saying it over and over and will probably continue to do so, but letting survivor(s) do what they want for an entire minute (2 hooks, four survivors = 8 minutes of DS) is just handing the game over to the survivors and expecting the killer to NOT do their objective. You can't expect killers to ignore survivors, nor can you have survivor perks that give them invulnerability because it's beyond broken.
You can ignore them, but doing so against very good survivors is just asking to lose the game. Hence why red mori's are actually really strong, because it allows you to bypass the second uptime of DS and remove them from the game ASAP, whereas without it, you're forced to slug them, or just let them get away since DS/UB makes them invincible.
@theplaggg said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1822675#Comment_1822675
How does a mori counter Unbreakable? If the killer wants to to mori you, you die. Same goes for regular hooks.
A mori does counter decisive but these conditions are way too specific. It only works if the killer tunnels a survivors off the second hook and gets them down within a minute. I am sure the community does not want an offering that is made for tunneling.
Moris that are suppsed to counter ONE single perk under special conditon are laughable.
I was including UB with DS as they are used together, and mori's don't require a pick up/slug to eliminate a survivor, bypassing both perks.
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@EvanSnowWolf said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1822648#Comment_1822648
Those two, no. But I don't care about Decisive Strike and Unbreakable is irrelevant to a Mori.
"But what if someone leaps from the bushes at the last second and gets a full sabotage action on the hook you wanted?!"
... is waaay too specific s condition for literally the most expensive item in the bloodweb.
I'm guessing it's irrelevant because you can't find a counter-argument but still need to tell everyone that mori's are useless despite that being completely misinformed?
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@EvanSnowWolf said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1822533#Comment_1822533
Those are some awfully specific situations.
I already work around Decisive Strike.
I've never seen Soul Guard run. Ever.
Unbreakable only matters if you are slugging, in which case comparison to death hooks is moot.
Body blocking is solved with M1.
Sabotage? You mean not looking before hooking? K.
I mean, you can keep coming up with Uber specific examples of you want. I still haven't heard one worth 7000 blood points.
DS/UB are not ''uber specific examples''. They're a very common perk combination ran in most games, and as a killer, you pretty much deal with them every single game and at worst, can be facing four survivors with it.
We all know how powerful DS/UB is, so let's not act like AN OFFERING that lets you bypass these two perks and immediately eliminate the survivor is bordeline worthless. Let's be realistic and acknowledge how mori's are still powerful, but not a free win anymore.
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@EvanSnowWolf said:
Only being able to Mori on death hook is borderline worthless.
Worthless? Mhm, yeah it sure is..
-Ignores DS, saving you a literal minute/an additional chase from being stunned. Game-changing.
-Ignores sabotages or body block efforts
-Ignores UB
-Ignores Soul Guard
-Ignores survivor(s) trying to rescue the downed survivor.
Man, it sure is borderline worthless. An offering able to counter DS when no other perk can isn't even borderline worthless, its strong. But yeah sure, let's bandwagon the hate train and cry about how useless it is now because it doesn't give killers free wins anymore.
-Killer main BTW before u hit me up with that ''omg suvivor maiN hue hue''
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Make survivor(s) camera switch from third person, to first person. Basically give them Blight's perspective since they're smaller and shorter than most killers.
Imagine walking around a corner and seeing C H O N K Bubba about to smash u
true terror.
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@KateDunson said:
Almo forgive this pleb for being mad at a perk that can be countered without camping
''jUsT dOnT tUNnEl 5heAD''
Oh? You mean how you can down the entire survivor team, hook three of them, then get hit with a 59.9 second DS by the fourth because the perk isn't anti-tunnel, its actually just a free minute of invulnerability?
Yeah, guess I shouldn't tunnel in the future =/ my bad
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He does need help. He can be a good killer, but you always need to run windstorm add-on's to even have a chance, it's basically mandatory.
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Survivors: *do this*
Also survivors in the post game chat: "omg noob killer plays scummy only camps -.- "
Lol
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Free double camp
Makes it ez for the killer as well lel
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@BigBrainMegMain said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1821497#Comment_1821497
And my problem with that mentality is....
Why are you concerned with the survivor who was just unhooked? Why are you chasing this one survivor instead of going for the unhooker? Also, my issue is....why are you even around the survivor who was just unhooked? Were you camping the hook? Were you patrolling the hook? Didn't your BBQ show you where other survivors were? Why are you so concerned about this, one, survivor. Why not the rest?
If 1 is dead, then the game is practically yours. If 2 are dead you shouldn't be stressing, and if 3 are dead then just wait out the timer, camp their body until they're forced to use their theoretical Unbreakable.
I don't understand killer's infatuation with going for the unhooked survivor instead of the other 3 on the map. If the unhooked survivor is going for a gen, who cares? So are the other 3, or the other 2 that you aren't going after.
Because to place pressure on the survivors and have a chance at winning, you need to be able to control and threaten the majority of the team, and when one or even two of them can have DS active along with UB, it destroys that pressure.
Also, a lot of survivors literally wave their free minute of invulnerability in my face as the killer. They'll get unhooked, I'll return back to the hook to chase the unhooker and go out of my way to not tunnel the unhooked guy..and the guy with DS/UB starts repairing a gen right in front of my face. What am I supposed to do then? Ignore him and let him progress the gens and basically win? That's like expecting survivors to stand perfectly still for the killer, let them down you without resistance and then proceed to hook you. Imagine if killers had a perk that gave them free hooks, imagine the outrage.
By the method I mentioned earlier by camping the slugged survivor for a minute, hooking and repeating until they're dead. Against good survivors, they'll finish all the generators before you even kill the one guy since all three survivors can independently (one on each gen) fix all five generators pretty quickly, especially when some gens might've been completed before u even got to hooking somebody.
It's still a perk combo that objectively gives survivors free time to do generators. Time to win the game when the killer is already stretched for it without DS/UB into the mix.
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Having another objective to do.. is boring?
Lol k
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It's why we call it the small pp build
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@BigBrainMegMain said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1821441#Comment_1821441
I will play "high and mighty" because like many others killers on the forums we deal with it the correct way.
Simply go for someone else. That's it. And I don't trust the devs on anything, they've messed up balancing, they've nerfed Coup De Grace ( LOL ) so telling ME, and I've been playing for 3.5 years, that "Even the devs touched on it during the QA stream" is just a laugh, because they've made the poorest of choices over the last months.
Have you ever thought....hm, how do killers deal with these 2 perks?
Or are you the type who believes that complaining hard enough, praying to the devs, that they'll nerf the combination? Because buddy....you must be either new or don't know how the 4v1 works around here.
The problem with DS/UB as a combination is that the killer has NO choice but to ignore them on purpose.
That's not counter-play, it's just the only choice the killer has in the situation and it's still terrible. Counter-play would be picking up a UB gamer, or slugging a DS gamer, you have options to counter those perks and still punish the survivor. Ignoring the survivor DS/UB isn't counter-play because its allowing the survivor to walk off and do whatever they want for 1 minute (x2).
DS & UB can give 8 minutes of invulnerability for the survivor team, assuming all the survivors are running it and are unhooked twice. 8 minutes.. that's more than enough time for all five generators to be done by just UB/DS active time alone.
So every survivor (assuming they're good) with DS/UB is practically making it impossible for the killer to win unless they decide to throw the game by camping the slugged player for a minute, picking them up, hooking, and then repeating it until they're dead, but you're losing all map pressure and will only kill one survivor at most.
This is only accounting for DS/UB uptime. It isn't counting how survivors spawn on generators, need to be chased to even be hooked (which even with Nurse, takes 20-30 seconds sometimes) and have two other perks to impact the game (Dead Hard, for example extends chases so much).
That's the problem. DS/UB basically grants the win for the survivors if they play moderately efficient and optimal and even as a Nurse or Spirit, you'll struggle and it was only with 1 hook red mori's did killers have a chance.
Now, it's very rare for all survivors to bring DS/UB in my experience, but even for one or two survivors bringing it.. Still gives them so much time to do generators and get out.
See the problem? Just "ignore them 5head" is literally costing you the game and it's the only thing you can do lol
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Tunnel them.
Make them understand what it means to bring a key into a lobby.
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Because if you could see who the killer is you would simply bring all the perks to counter them.
Iron Will VS Spirit
Calm Spirit VS Doctor
Small Game & Flashlights VS Trapper
Etc, it would be horrible
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I mean.. its a perk that doesn't work until the end-game.. leaving you without a perk for the majority of a game where you might not even get to the end-game to begin with.
Plus, it's impact is only seen in chase as it activates TBH
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He's an underrated killer.
His Shred is fine where it is, rat liver just needs to be base kit.
As for his portals, the global notification for the Demogorgon needs to go, or at least, give us add-ons to reduce the scream (e.g maybe an add-on makes him completely silent).
That's all I would do without talking about his perks.
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@FFirebrandd said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1818887#Comment_1818887
You arguably didn't. The Killer's name is "The Twins" not "Victor". You're supposed to be taking advantage of both what Victor can do and what Charlotte can do. If you had Victor run off far enough that Charlotte couldn't get to the downed Survivor before the other Survivor got him up, you split them up too much and got punished for it.
That also ignores the fact that Victor runs at I think 150% move speed. You cannot run from that, so there needs to be other avenues of counter play.
Except Charlotte is literally an M1 Killer and has no real lethality by herself without Victor.
So no, Victor is the main power.
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Agreed. Your power shouldn't have the window to be destroyed when it's used successfully.
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Yeah, the most annoying thing about the exclusive codes is how it goes back on what they said about exclusivity items to begin with.
I'd like the Fruit Cake charm, but I refuse to slum over hours of content of streamers I do not enjoy, for little to no chance of getting the charm.
It's even worse by how the fog whisperer abuse it to high-heaven, every video and stream always has the "Omg codes!!" In them but never always does.
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Isn't this just Furtive Chase?
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Survivor a lot of times is getting tunnelled , camped, slugged to high heaven and facing against killers who are incredibly frustrating and negate all your options (e.g Nurse, Spirit, PH, Deathslinger) along with the addition of teammates screwing you over.
It's the less frustrating role IMO but it also has less reward than killer.
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@Mandy said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1817167#Comment_1817167
Doors are RNG to attempt to be fair to both players. There's no reason why a killer should have the advantage over the door spawn locations - just because you've killed 3 other survivors and one has evaded you doesn't mean they've failed because they are 4 individuals.
Thanks for responding to my comment. You mentioned that the fourth survivors hasn't necessarily failed because of the killer eliminating the other three and as such shouldn't be punished for it.
However, isn't that ignoring the survivor(s) failing to do their primary objective, which is completing all generators and then failing to find hatch on top of that? It's also ignoring the team aspect of the survivors and how one survivor isn't punished for the mistakes of another, which doesn't make sense for a team orientated role.
Whilst gates shouldn't be killer advantageous, they absolutely should not be survivor advantageous to the point killers without insane mobility are unable to effectively patrol both doors and as such give the survivor a heavy advantageous in getting out.
The solution would be to make gates closer, to where survivors have a somewhat possible chance to escape, but it comes down to mind-games and outplaying the killer (e.g tricking the killer by opening one door slightly, then running off to the other, making him stay at the slightly activated door).
Just make it so killers have a chance..
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Unless you're Nurse or Spirit, survivors are far stronger than killers.
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Victor holding down a downed survivor would do nothing against competent survivors who use the "buddy system" to completely counter Victor.
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There needs to be a perk that causes exhaustion upon hit or maybe even negates the use of exhaustion perks.
Dead Hard needs an actual counter.
As for a mechanical counter, maybe exhausted survivor(s) run at 3.8 m/s instead of 4.0 m/s
I mean YOU ARE EXHAUSTED, have it do something..
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@[Deleted User] said:
Tbh I never really had a problem with campers before for the most part; except recently.
Like 8/10 people picking leatherface just do nothing but face camp with him, to a point it makes me question why this killer even exists in the game. Let me be clear, if they camped us on last gen or end game or something, sure, I mean no problem- but I mean they are going into the game with NO intention of actually playing at all, just to face camp the first person they can.
Makes me sad, they are a fun killer to play as and against, but no one wants to actually put the effort in as him anymore because it's easier to just face sit someone =(
It's because he's the best killer in the game to camp with. If you do it, there's nothing the survivors can do. Even BT doesn't do much against Bubba when he can chase you with his chainsaw and has enough charges to do so.
As a Bubba main who rarely camps, it makes me sad seeing people do it when he has such amazing lethality in chases now..
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The point I'm getting at is if you're the last survivor then you don't deserve an advantageous position at the gates, all because:
-If three of you are dead, you've ######### up pretty badly to get to the position you're in. You failed to do all the generators in time.
-Survivors also have hatch which is an RNG mechanic that the killer has no control over besides the hatch offering. Survivors can fail their primary objective and still get a chance to escape.
-Survivors THEN get another free escape by having the doors 12 light years away?
How many second chances/free escapes do we want to give survivors?
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Just delete Freddy.
Jobs a good un
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Everyone all of a sudden complaining that they reduce BP gain despite it doing the exact same thing before the nerf.
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@MythMage said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1815935#Comment_1815935
Noooooooo. Just make it like the Scarred Hand and have it trump all other addons so that it can only have 1 hatchet at all times. Maybe make her 4.5 while using the addon as well, but that's my take
That could work as well, would stop Huntress from doing three people in six seconds and basically force her to have almost no snowball potential
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Killer: *Doesn't tunnel*
Also Killer: *Hit by DS after chasing three other survivors*
This forum: iT's YoUr fAuLt
Right because that's the real issue and not how the perk is badly designed to the point of being a free minute of invulnerability for the surcivor and not actually anti-tunnel
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@[Deleted User] said:
I played a mid tier killer without ruin and undying and you called me names for not doing well enough- so bugger off next game I am taking ruin and undying again; you had your chance.
If you bring the combo, people ######### at you for it
Don't bring it and you get called a ######### killer
At this point just ######### survivors and do what you want lol
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Unless you're Nurse or Spirit, you can only 4K against very good survivors by tunnelling, patrolling or slugging.
Out of those three, slugging is the lesser of the evils generally and expecting the killer to not do these three strategies is having the expectation of the killer willingly losing the game.
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There's a simple fix to Irisdecent Head to be honest.
Just add a requirement for the one-shot. If a hatchet hits a survivor further than, for example, 25 metres, the hatchet becomes a one-shot.
It rewards good aim then and has counter-play.
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Yeah and having all the gens done in 3 minutes despite having good pressure is also boring =)
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I mean the game is 1:4, so there will always be less killer players.
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Demogorgon is a fair and fun killer to play, I also love facing him as a survivor.
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As a Killer main, if I'm able to hook everyone three times whilst spacing them out a bit to give everyone a chance to play, I'll go for it. But if the survivor(s) are rushing generators and playing extremely efficient, I'll skip doing that and probably just focus on two survivors or even tunnel if there's no other way.
But honestly, most games I'm able to reach the 12 hook(s) since solo queue survivor is pretty difficult.
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@Pulsar said:
Bubba I absolutely agree with.
Demo I do not. His jack of all trades style means he isn't really good at anything. His Shred is pretty awful on Console and is easily juked. His Portals do offer mobility, but everyone knows when you use them and they are static. He has very little map pressure because of that. He excels at nothing and is painfully meh at everything. In short, I really WANT to like him, but Demo is mediocre and bland, which is painful because it's so cool in the show.
How is he not ''good'' at anything? Let's actually look at his powers:
-Demogorgon's portals let you teleport from one side of the map to the other. If you spread them around on the generators, you have access to any part of the map quicker than any other killer, save Freddy. Survivors can cleanse these portals, but it gives the Demogorgon a free 12-15 second slow-down mechanic multiple times a match and it just takes him two seconds to put another down, or teleport to one near the destroyed portal and pressure the survivor(s).
-Demogorgon telling everyone he's teleporting is no different than Oni screaming, Billy revving his chainsaw, Spirit phasing, etc, but people consider them to have immense mobility, which is an unfair difference.
-Shred destroys non-circular structures like shack or windows at jungle gyms. It may be an issue on console, but on PC, it's a power that can easily zone survivors or force them to take a hit.
He has very good mobility and anti-loop potential, people just haven't figured out how to use his power to its full potential, and generally simply listen to the streamers who underestimate him.
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Take away his snares/pallets. He already has the best mobility in the game, with free pseudo-stealth and gen slow-down with little to no beneficial counter-play.
Make him weaker at looping.
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It depends on the killer whether nerfs are justified.
If the survivors are very efficient and optimal, any killer, even Nurse, Will lose.
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@Bullettimegod said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1811372#Comment_1811372
3 seconds to teleport that is telegraphed af. You literally could run away or sneak away and have to have him catch up to you.
Snares? Literally waking up is easy unless they have the addon about failed skill checks. Also yea he punishes looping but you could..idk not be greedy and chain loops instead of trying to run around the same truck for the unteenth time.
3 seconds to teleport from one side of the map to the other. Do you not understand how insane that is? No other killer, even Nurse, can traverse that quick across the map.
Waking up is not easy when the clock is on the other side of the map and teammates are only viable for the first two times before wasting time. Breaking gens or failing skill checks just gives Freddy awareness of where you are and what you're doing. Stay asleep and he gets free pseudo-stealth and slow-down add-ons.
Snares make pallets drop early and with there being only so many pallets, the strategy to drop them early runs out pretty quickly.
So yeah, a killer who has free slow down, the best mobility in the game and a strong anti-loop isn't in need of a nerf?