Xernoton
Xernoton
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It sucks, that this happened but at that point the game was about to be over anyway it seems.
So if the killer went afk at 1 gen remaining, that's pretty similar to a survivor that kills themself when the gens are done. At that point, they won't change the results of the match anymore so it's only their attitude that is a problem but less the implications.
They still deserve a penalty.
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@SilverCrane4643 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3689627#Comment_3689627
Explain more what you mean.
One example for that was the removal of SkyBilly (Hillbilly's ability to traverse the map by using the chainsaw from an elevated position to get on top of obstacles, which redirect his momentum slightly upwards and allow him to traverse the map by "jumping" over obstacles rather than running around them). Instead of fixing what was actually broken to prevent him from clipping out of bounds, they completely changed his physics and added a variety of invisible walls that also limit Demogorgon's ability to increase the range of his shred, which is even hinted at in the loading screen. They even officially said they'd support SkyBilly as a tech a few years prior.
When they "fixed" SkyBilly it wasn't due to it having no counterplay, being too strong or whatever but simply because they no longer intended it to remain. Meaning, they removed it for the sake of removing an unintended feature.
Which is fine as long as they stay consistent with it. But I have an issue with it, if they don't because that's a double standard.
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@KaTo1337 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3689641#Comment_3689641
Mostly people say something like this:
"A P100-Freddy. Now I have completed DBD"
"Why do you waste your time on this sht killer?"
"The first Freddy after months and its a P100. gg"I think I'd fit right into that first category of players. 😅
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There are simple solutions for this issue, that would also make OTR a way better perk:
- The base kit Endurance effect is removed and replaced with an effect that removes any collision the killer and survivor have with each other. Meaning, they cannot be hit but they also cannot bodyblock.
- OTR does not work on protection hits. Meaning, you simply go down if you take a protection hit.
Survivors would have 10 seconds to split up, so that a protection hit won't happen, the unhooked survivor cannot bodyblock the killer and OTR becomes a way better perk because the killer can no longer trigger the Endurance hit right after the unhook. This would also utilise the otherwise useless protection hit mechanic and would allow for some adjustments to make it more consistent without breaking OTR in the process.
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Congratulations, friend!
I'm honestly curious of the reactions your P100 Freddy will get. I have no idea how I would react myself. 😂
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@SilverCrane4643 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3688851#Comment_3688851
That will only make the game less intersting and it would remove many the holy s moments. Not to mention that would lower the skill ceiling for mid and especially high level players.
I agree but the devs set the precedence to remove techs for the sake of removing techs. If they don't follow through, then that is a clear case of double standards.
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@CLHL said:
The day this happens is going to be extremely funny. And it will end up coming, because that nerf was already leaked in a recent patch notes and quickly removed from it. I doubt they redacted a whole paragraph for a perk change by mistake.
People have gotten so used to this perk that they have completely lost their gamesense. It's comical to read all the complaints to killers aura perks when almost everyone is running an x-ray vision that gives them the location of every pallet and vault in the map. Allowing them to make a braindead predrop circuit that in many cases ends up sentencing their team with multiple deadzones.
Iirc the description was identical to the one before the buff, so I wouldn't read too much into it.
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@Angelosso said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3688931#Comment_3688931
I've not encountered any teammates or survivors that has used flashbangs, but I fully understand that lightborn is important to have at least then. The only thing about the lobby thing that irritates me is that, I'm not the best and feel like I can only save people like 3 out of 10 times with the flashlight, otherwise I may be able to take a hit or sabotage, but it is a miracle if they are able to wiggle off. But thank you very much for answering fast, because I can now be able to understand better why it should not be changed.
The frequency of flashlight saves is pretty low, that's true. But this is necessary. A killer invests quite a bit of time to get a down after all.
If you can save people 3 out of 10 times that's already pretty good. That would imply that you could get a save multiple times per game. I don't know how much experience you have on either side but if you keep track of how long matches and chases usually take, then it becomes more clear why these things are so valuable.
But thank you very much for answering fast, because I can now be able to understand better why it should not be changed.
You're very welcome. Thank you for keeping an open mind.
Good luck and see you in the fog.
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@Nebula said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3688590#Comment_3688590
“It's similar to Nurse with Plaid Flannel. Nurse doesn't really become stronger with it because a good Nurse can get the exact same results without it but it still doesn't feel nice, knowing that the Nurse player doesn't have to put in any effort in dominating the match.”
Yes, Plaid Flannel and WoO are similar, similar in the fact that they take either a perk / add-on that could be replaced with something stronger. Would you rather that perk slot be Dead Hard or that add-on be Heavy Panting? They’re sacrificing actual strength for ease of use and quality of life in both cases.Lightborn is the same exact way. People run it so they don’t have to think as much and to counteract the uncounterable flash bang background player saves. Windows is the exact same, RNG is unpredictable and your survivor teammates throwing pallets is unpredictable unless you’re on comms. Again, ease of use and quality of life.
Lightborn is not the same as WoO. Survivors can completely ignore Lightborn but WoO is something the killer will notice. One barely affects normal gameplay, the other completely changes the game completely.
I'd rather be stomped by some god like survivors every once in a while than winning all my games but being bored to death while I do it. What if from today onwards the game was no longer a PvP but a PvE. Would you still play, knowing that every match is pretty much the same because your opponents always do the exact same things? This is what WoO does to survivors. It turns them into bots that no longer play against the killer but play by a manual.
For all I care the perk could be buffed to become stronger as long as that aspect is removed.
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@xltechno said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3688776#Comment_3688776
The reason why slugging is so popular in the first place is due to two aspects.
First, as a tactic, it is better to take down a survivor, chase out or injure another survivor who attempts to complete the gen, and then hook the downed survivor again, which increases the killer's suppressing power.
2nd, As you mentioned, development made the act of hooking too weak in the first place, so people are hesitant to hook easily. Knock out are not always used to prevent hooks, but are sometimes used to take advantage of temporary suppressing power.In any case, when facing a killer with a knockout configuration, the theory is that if there is a downed survivor, the first thing you should do is go to help them. It's a threat against nurses and brights, but honestly I don't feel threatened against doctors. Roles can be divided between the person being chased, the person completing the gen, and the person going to help and wake up. Is it possible to achieve such perfect coordination with soloQ? Not really, even if it's not perfect, survivors can do a lot with just the support of the HUD.
Slugging is not that popular though. There are situations where a killer will probably slug (like 2 survivors right next to each other and slugging for the 4k) but the worst kind of slugging is thankfully not that common yet.
Back when Knockout was buffed, many of us warned the devs that it wasn't a good idea. But luckily hooking remained the go-to strategy for the most part (multiple reasons for that). However, we already see what happens when Singularity stops hooking survivors. Doctor can become a monster as well. As can Wraith and Spirit. Sadako too. But the best slowdown perks require hooks at the moment and slowdown has always been meta, so many will not even think about changing their play style, which in this particular case is good.
They should rework Knockout regardless. Nerfing it would only make it useless and we really have enough bad perks already.
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@Angelosso said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3688820#Comment_3688820
I like your idea about the lobby thing going both ways, only that I usually play solo or duo and often happen to meet randoms who holds their flashlight and think that kind of ruin for us. I can also see that the combination of background player and flashbang is broken if thats what you meant. It may be a fair trade, but making it more difficult using an item instead of removing the value of it would maybe be better in my opinion.
I don't mean overpowered but literally broken. Flashbangs do not work correctly because of sound occlusion (allows survivors to drop one around a corner and blind the killer without them hearing the drop) and a bug that allows survivors to glich themselves into the killer during a pick up animation, which makes it possible to drop a flashbang on the killer's feet and get the save even when they stare at a wall. Both of these are not directly tied to flashbangs but until they are fixed, flashbangs do not work correctly either.
If you see your team mate holding a flashlight in the lobby, then you can also hold one yourself and switch to a different item at the last second. That might bait the killer into bringing Lightborn. But when it's only 1 or 2 flashlights, then Lightborn is a pretty wasted perk.
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The only reason I am against this is because I really don't want to go back to DH being the most used (or even one of the most used) survivor perks. Which could very well happen, if it lost the exhaustion part.
This perk can burn in hell. I have seen enough of it for the next 10k games.
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Can we test it on the PTB first? It might not even be that impactful.
Also, other techs should be fixed as well. The devs have started fixing techs for the sake of fixing techs, so now they should follow through with it. That means any remaining killer and survivor techs, no matter how impactful should be nerfed as long as it doesn't create worse issues.
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@CaseTrain3322 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3688813#Comment_3688813
well depends from the killer DS punishes a lot weaker killers who must tunnel in order to be feasible
We saw before 6.1.0 that it was possible to tunnel through a 5 seconds DS. However, at the time this was less effective than for example camping. Camping has been nerfed quite a bit with base kit BT and the AFC.
Also Ruin + Undying was meta back then and had a higher pick rate than any of the current meta perks iirc. These perks worked best, if you could pressure multiple survivors away from gens at once. That doesn't really happen, if you tunnel.
So at best we go back to a similar situation to pre 6.1.0.
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@Emeal said:
I still think DS should disable Killer powers for 10 seconds, even if it stuns for 5 seconds.
The reason being that ranged and fast Killers can still close that 3 second cap, Otz proved that in a video.https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3686993#Comment_3686993
DS is in a greater spot than most perks.
I agree with this suggestion but what would that mean for Myers, Freddy, Cenobite, Dredge, Nemesis, Wesker, Skull Merchant, Knight and Singularity? They all have some passive powers or in case of Myers and Knight a power that is activated for a limited duration. Would these effects be paused (and would Nemesis' zombies freeze in place?) or would that still work?
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Let's not do that.
Lightborn is one of only 4 perk slots a killer has. That leaves them with only 3 good perks. I'd say that's a fair trade. Especially considering that Lightborn doesn't give you anything crazy really. You cannot be blinded. Great. No Background Player and Flashbang (which are still broken, literally) shenanigens. But that's it. The survivors can still play the game like normal and Lightborn won't do anything.
Also, the thing with lobbies goes both ways. You could switch to a flashlight in the last second or show the killer the flashlight and then switch to a different item.
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@SoGo said:
Perks like Grim Embrace and Pain Res actually do incentivize spreading hooks.
We also had old BBQ but that one's gone.
There are perks that benefit you more when not tunneling
BT was added to the base kit because you pretty much had to use it, if you didn't want to farm your team mates.
Perks that incentivise spreading hooks are great but what if I don't use them? I could run something different, something that might be more suitable to my play style and I wouldn't have any reason not to tunnel.
Being forced to run a perk is one thing (not a good thing, though) but if it's only a possibility, then what's to stop me from pretending like it doesn't exist? Especially considering that it's only 2 perks that work that way and they both have the same purpose. So either they need to include something to the killer's base kit that incentivises spreading hooks over tunneling or they need to create a lot more perks like that.
DS alone isn't enough to stop tunneling either.
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Nope. We don't need survivors bodyblocking with DS, then stunning the killer with it and still be protected.
There are other ways to combat tunneling, that would not make this issue worse. We know that this issue exists because we've had it already, so that's not some theoretical thing that might or might not happen but something is going to happen as DS becomes more popular again.
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I still can't believe Bond's pick rate isn't higher. It's such an undervalued perk. Combine it with Open Handed and see for yourself how much information you actually get out of it.
You see where your team mates work on gens, so you know where the gens are and you can identify potential 3 gens early on. You see where the chased survivor is and you see where they drop pallets, so you know what resources are used. You can find your team mates when you need a heal. You have a pretty good idea where the killer is when someone else is in chase. You know where to run when you end up getting chased yourself. You know when another survivor runs towards you with the killer on their heels. You know where to go for a bodyblock. You know what the others are up to even when the HUD doesn't tell you. And all of this with a huge range.
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I've been saying for months, slugging could be a way worse issue, if it was more common. I did this quite a few times as Doctor on The Game and so far I haven't lost. It's not just solo queue though.
The efficiency of slugging is often underestimated. You save so much time picking up, carrying and hooking survivors and with the right killer and build this becomes insanely strong.
This highlights 2 issues:
- Hooking takes an insane amount of time and kills the killers momentum.
- Slugging is too strong thanks to Knockout.
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@Huge_Bush said:
The perk is fine as is. It’s one of the few that bridges the gap between SwF and SoloQ. It’s just a QoL info perk and if killers think it’s too much, I’d like to bring their attention to the plethora of aura reading perks/add-ons they have and to not be hypocrites.
The difference is that survivors move. Pallets and windows don't. Killers can't play on autopilot simply because there are aura perks. Aura perks also aren't active permanently. They reveal survivors for a short duration.
@Hexling said:
ahhh yes lets make the game even harder for new people.
New players don't have the perk anyway because it's a teachable of Kate Denson, who is a dlc character, so let's not pretend. They won't even know the perk exists when they start playing.
Also, the perk would still do that. It's not my intention to gut WoO but to change it so that it doesn't become a literal autopilot, which then becomes a necessity for these players because they never learned to play without it.
A secondary effect could be added to compensate for it, in case it becomes too weak. I'd take any suggestions you might have.
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@Spare_Them_Mori_Me said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3688567#Comment_3688567
I understand these situations. Thank you :)
My main issue with DH is and always has been the counterplay in combination with its extremely high pick rate.
Are you referring to the counterplay of waiting it out? I'm always curious when I hear this! Most killers I've seen complain they have to wait for DH even if the survivor doesn't have it. I love that lol. There's absolutely no self-accountability in this scenario and usually makes me roll my eyes. I love when they blame others for decisions, they made themselves. I DO understand this delimma, but in this scenario…
DH on the other hand comes in play exactly when the survivor needs it. Switching targets is not an option anymore because you've already spent too much time on that first chase. So you definitely need to counter it, which means waiting it out. That's pretty terrible counterplay and it also doesn't work when you know they have it (or you have to treat them like they have it) and they get near a pallet. Because then you need to wait and they use their DH shortly before they reach the pallet. Without DH you'd get a down here. But you can't hit them because then you risk hitting them with Endurance and you also can't wait it out because then they get the pallet. This is a lose-lose situation to which you have no counterplay.
I find this scenario used a lot, and I find it fascinating. Like its a gold standard, always happens in games.
It doesn't. This scenario is a small niche event that rarely happens, as the stars have to align in the night sky to be possible. Same as BU+FTP, but no one wants to talk about that. :P
In closing, I understand your plight regarding DH, I just think it's highly overblown. A scapegoat for killers to feel a little better and cope. And Im all for it. :) TY for the discussion! <3
Are you referring to the counterplay of waiting it out?
Yes. It's really not fun and when it happens in nearly every chase it becomes so incredibly tedious. I'd rather play against SB, which is harder to counter (and it doesn't have the lack of counterplay at pallets) but takes an effort.
Also, SB's pick rate isn't nearly as high. It doesn't feel good when all the killers you play against use the same meta perks either but at least that's one killer at a time and you don't witness them first hand as often as a perk that is used by all 4 survivors pretty much every match. The sheer overexposure already makes it terrible. Wesker's pick rate isn't nearly as high as DH's used to be and you still see complaints about him for that exact reason (although it seems to have calmed down a bit as his pick rate decreased).
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@solarjin1 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/409692/a-possible-nerf-to-woo
I'm ok with the idea i guess. Don't think the nerf would even do much to the perk honestly. "It would also further incentivise learning maps" We need a trapper bot so survivors can actually run around different maps learning the pallet spawns. I had to use windows for the first 1500 hours myself because there just to many maps.
I'd like that too. Or even a mode without a killer / survivor so that you can just focus on the map.
Thanks for your feedback.
@supersonic853 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3688508#Comment_3688508
unless you count pure pickrate i guess. My only complaint with it is the amount of autopiloting you can see from it. Like its incredibly obvious when a survivor runs from pallet to pallet not even trying to loop.
Autopiloting though is a map issue not a perk issue.
This is my main issue with it.
It's similar to Nurse with Plaid Flannel. Nurse doesn't really become stronger with it because a good Nurse can get the exact same results without it but it still doesn't feel nice, knowing that the Nurse player doesn't have to put in any effort in dominating the match.
It's also why my main goal is not to gut WoO but to make it less of an autopilot for survivors.
@Shirtless_Myers said:
Survivors should spawn on hooks to make the game more fair to killers.
The goal is not to gut the perk but to get rid of the autopilot that WoO provides.
If you have any suggestions to keep the perk strong (for example a secondary effect), or you find an issue with my suggestion, I would appreciate the feedback.
@ChaosWam said:
I'm also on the boat that it doesn't need a nerf, but I would have another way it functions.
Basically, the perk would have a 20 second timer. The time recharges when not in chase. When in a chase, see the auras of pallets/windows for the duration of the perk.
I say 20 seconds as a starting point, could be tuned for whatever balance required, but it would make the perk not as long lasting and still be useful for new players who may not know if there's a safe spot nearby while veterans can't just use it to autopilot the entire time.
That said, and again, I don't think the current needs to be nerfed.
That could work too, although I fear it doesn't quite help with the issue that you won't know what pallets are still available as you make your way across the map during the chase.
@Hensen2100 said:
I would say reduce the radius or add the CD back. I think it's funny that on maps like the game I can already know my exact route I am going to take on an entirely different floor before I have even seen that section of the map.
BHVR added new tiles because "the entity demands a more chaotic experience" but then this autopilot perk exists. Even as a killer you can usually tell who is using it as they perfectly path pallet to pallet to window to pallet to window etc etc
I agree with that second part. This is my main issue with it. The perk really doesn't need to be much weaker but I'd like to shift the strength towards something more interactive. Pre dropping and Shift + W isn't really fun and WoO makes it even worse because it doesn't take any effort whatsoever. At least without it, it takes some map knowledge.
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@Spare_Them_Mori_Me said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3688501#Comment_3688501
Can you elaborate? Killer's early game is pretty terrible. I main Trapper so I don't follow most killer blueprints on what a good game is in general lol. My early game is very different.
Really thinking about trying a new killer to branch out. It's only ever really been Trappy Boi
The early of killers in general is pretty weak. You have no pressure yet, all the resources are still available and all 4 survivors are on gens. Then you start the first chase and it's 3 survivors on gens. This however still means, that they progress at a much faster rate than you could ever hope for. That changes however when you get your first hook.
Now 1 survivor has to come for the unhook and you chase someone else, so for a brief time only 1 survivor will actually progress. When the first down is delayed by DH however, it means that you can already lose so much time, that you cannot make up for it later on.
SB and Lithe in theory allow survivors to do the same, however they both have different counterplay. For SB, nobody forces you to follow them when they use it at the beginning of the chase. So you can just ignore them for a bit and see if someone else is a better target. If not, then you chase them away from their gen real quick and return to that first survivor, that is now exhausted. It's not ideal but it doesn't cost you as much time as catching up.
For Lithe, you have a similar option and can also try and zone them to prevent them from getting max distance. DH on the other hand comes in play exactly when the survivor needs it. Switching targets is not an option anymore because you've already spent too much time on that first chase. So you definitely need to counter it, which means waiting it out. That's pretty terrible counterplay and it also doesn't work when you know they have it (or you have to treat them like they have it) and they get near a pallet. Because then you need to waitand they use their DH shortly before they reach the pallet. Without DH you'd get a down here. But you can't hit them because then you risk hitting them with Endurance and you also can't wait it out because then they get the pallet. This is a lose-lose situation to which you have no counterplay.
In the early game this is horrible because it means that the survivors have more time work on 3 different gens at once.
I hope that explains it. My main issue with DH is and always has been the counterplay in combination with its extremely high pick rate.
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@Spare_Them_Mori_Me said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3688330#Comment_3688330
Good thing killers in general dislike exhaustion perks, right? Even DH, in its crippled state, gets hate still. Blows my mind.
Skill issue ya think? Nah, never really is for killer side. I've been trying to figure it out, but I can't put my finger on it.
The problem with DH is not the nature of exhaustion perks though. It never has been.
It's more that it's so strong you need to play around it and it's combined with the worst kind of possible counterplay. That and of course the hate that carried over from pre 6.1.0 DH.
I can live with DH now. It's not 4 DHs every game (thank god for that) and it does no longer ruin the killer's early game, which is already pretty terrible. Although I still dislike the counterplay, so I won't rejoice about it.
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@TWiXT said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3688261#Comment_3688261
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3688263#Comment_3688263
Honestly, I held back on both of them due to concern of what they could accomplish when combined with other perks.
Threatening Presence has the potential of + or - 12 meters to the killers Terror Radius. -12 when all survivors are healthy, +12 when they're all injured, so on the average 32 meter TR killer, that gives the killer a 20m TR in the start of the match when everyone's healthy and a 42m TR if everyone's injured/down/hooked. It increases the TR to give injured survivors more warning when the killers threat is at maximum, and lowers it when the threat is at its minimum. As an added bonus, it slightly increases skill check difficulty and trigger chances for anyone healing in the larger TR so as to apply some pressure on survivors, however this is where the potential perk synergies become oppressive:
Distressing: Turns the Average 32m TR into 40m, +12 from TP when everyone's injured, and you have a 52m TR on the Average Killer.
Monitor and Abuse: Raises and Lowers a TR by 8m in and out of chase. With TP, this can result in a Minimum TR of only 12m when everyone's healthy and the killer is out of chase, and a maximum of 60m when everyone's injured and the killer is in chase.
Unnerving Presence: Decreases Skill check Success Zones by 60% when and Trigger odds by 10% in the TR. Adding TP Makes Healing Skill checks within the TR 80% smaller, and gives a 20% higher Trigger Rate. That's nothing to sniff at, even for the more Skilled survivors.
Coulrophobia: Increases how fast Healing skill checks the dial rotates within the TR, and slows down Healing Speed. With a TP increasing TR, decreasing Skill check success zones, and trigger odds… you can make a pretty nasty anti-heal build with just these 2 perks.
This isn't even accounting the potential for Killers with oppressively large TR's like Doctor or Wesker. My original idea was to give TP a TR +/- of 5 at maximum which would've resulted in an additional 20m, but when I reviewed the synergies I decided to dial it down.
As for Leap of Faith… It has potential to be abused, especially in the endgame when running for gate, and on some maps can provide an almost assured escape, but when combined with other 2nd chance perks, and Exhaustion perks, it also can be a really nasty surprise for the killer. I won't go into all of the potential combo's, but one that stands out to me is Borrowed Time:
LoF activates when you are hooked, and BT activates when unhooked, granting 20 seconds of endurance. Getting unhooked at the endgame when a gate is open already practically ensures the rescued survivor can make it to a gate, but with LoF granting an additional 5 seconds just from leaping off a small ledge… yeah, I can only think of 1 killer that can directly counter that, and only with a specific add-on equipped.
My original concept for LoF, was to grant 10 seconds of Endurance, and 50% faster movement/unhooking speed if performed while a survivor is hooked. The idea was to give you chance to run in and quickly unhook a survivor without worrying about going down… but then i remembered old BT protecting both the rescued survivor and the rescuer… yeah, I don't want to go back to that, so I simply reduced it to providing a small boon of endurance to help you survive a chase, that can only be activated a maximum of 11 times… thinking about it though, that may still be too much, so I'll probably have to add another condition or restrict it to simply how many times you are hooked + how many survivors you rescue from the hook.
Idk, like I said, I'm testing the waters here. Thank you guys for your honest feedback.
The problem is that experienced players have less trouble with bigger and smaller TRs. They'll know where to look for the killer and that mostly allows them to react no matter the TR.
Beginners on the other hand are often so affraid of the TR, that they will start hiding as soon as they hear it. When the TR is small on the other hand, they won't be able to react in time. That's my main issue with Threatening Presence.
I like that it has lots of opportunities for synergy though and with the right tweaks it could probably become a pretty interesting perk.
I like playing around with the killer's TR a lot but I think giving a perk much more than that is simply too much for more casual survivors and beginners to handle while experienced survivors might not have too much of an issue with it.
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That's one of the great mysteries in live. It's undeniable that Freddy is weaker than most killers but still for some strange reason, his kill rate is higher than most.
I see 3 possible reasons for that.
- Freddy is not very distinct from other killers. So the only reason to play him is because you like the character. This naturally means, that not many will play him. The ones that do play him however have more of a reason to main him as well and little to distract them from learning the fundamental game mechanics, which many people struggle with because they spend more time learning specific parts of the game like certain killer powers. So the Freddy mains might perform better because they simply play pretty good.
- Survivors often underestimate him. How many times have you seen survivors do dumb ######### against top tier killers? Probably not that often. How often does that happen against killers that are perceived as weak? A lot more. I play Freddy somewhat regularly and I'm always amazed by how many survivors that otherwise play well get cocky as the match progresses and give me easy openings to make a comeback.
- He combines everything that beginners have trouble dealing with. Mobility, anti loop and a side objective. Especially to beginners this can be quite overwhelming because these affect the very basics of the game. They won't know that Freddy's mobility isn't actually that dangerous or that has no power against them for as long as they remain awake. They also might not know when to go for alarm clocks and when to wake up each other, or that failing a skill check wakes you up.
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@Ilikechips said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3688330#Comment_3688330
They will be nerfed too in time.
I guarantee it.
If that is the case, then most of us will fight tooth and nail against that. I don't find this any more likely than a nerf to Brutal Strength.
There is no reason to nerf these perks at the moment. However, the game keeps changing and they might become an issue in the future. For example, it's very much a possibility that survivors will have increased movement speed in a few years. There is no reason for that now but we can't really predict what the game will look like in a few years. Look at STBFL for example (although personally I don't think it was an issue).
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@Nebula said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3688254#Comment_3688254
If we’re going to use the argument that Windows should be nerfed because it’s a crutch perk then gen regress perks such as Pain Res, Pop and Grim Embrace should be given the same treatment.
Windows doesn’t buy you close to enough time as these perks do, especially when paired together. Literally making you do 6-8 gens worth of progress in a given match.What’s skill expressive about stacking slowdowns and giving yourself 5 more minutes to get downs?
Not really. Because for these perks to give you anything, you already need to progress. Pop won't activate, if you don't get your down and it's useless, if you don't go to a gen that has a lot of progress. Pain Res gives you less regression but it has the upside that you don't need to get to that gen first. In both cases however, you do not really crutch on these perks but you put in quite a bit of work for them to do anything at all. The same goes for GE. Although I wouldn't be against nerfing GE's synergy with DMS.
An argument could be made that 4 slowdown perks at once are a crutch and I would honestly not argue against it. But as combination of 2 perks, I don't see an issue here. Because you still need to put in quite some effort to keep the game from progressing faster than you. Especially when you consider that for every regression perk you run, that's one less perk slot you have to find survivors, keep chases short, stop them from healing or whatever.
WoO however takes no effort whatsoever to get value out of. I mean, how hard is it to hold Shift + W from pallet to window to pallet and occasionally press space. WoO completely takes away any chance for survivors to mess up their pathing. I'd be fine, if they played that way because they are simply that good but WoO does not need you to play good. It's quite literally a manual on how to run around the map.
Would you be fine, if Nurse's Plaid Flannel was base kit? I think that would be stupid. It not being base kit doesn't fix the issue, that Nurse is too powerful (or that maps are too strong in case of WoO) but at least the killer has to put some effort into playing, right?
Literally making you do 6-8 gens worth of progress in a given match.
That's a good point. But consider this; even with all that extra time the game somehow still works and survivors can and do win against that (granted, it's a lot harder). That means, that the base time of 5 gens is just too low. So that should not be the reference for a fair game.
The main reason I keep on defending slowdown perks is because the game doesn't really work without them. It's very easy to outpace a killer without slowdown. No amount of skill will help with this. The best M1 killer mind game of all time will not get you a hit or help you get the pallet, if a survivor has a check spot where they only need to wait. But that's how many loops are designed. Which is fine when the killer has the time to brute force their way through as long as they are quick with other loops. But that's simply not the case and it's also why so many maps need to have huge dead zones to be fair in that way. Which creates different issues again.
This is also the difference to WoO. I do not want this perk to be killed but to change it so that survivors actually need to put something into it to get the value. There used to be the argument that people use it to learn maps. If that is the case, then my suggestion shouldn't be too much of a nerf. Just keep track of 1 or 2 other loops nearby and you're completely fine. But at least you put some effort into it. If the suggested numbers are too much of a downgrade, then they can of course be adjusted. It's only a suggestion.
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@sharpef3rn said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3688414#Comment_3688414
Yeah I think we are on the same page. I am not thinking that devs purposefully design perks to have these advantages on higher tier killers but do think that if they are going to have something based on positioning it should be intentionally done in a way that would benefit lower tier killers more. Imagine if instead of 5 seconds of 24 m aura reading it was 24 m of aura reading until you were >10m from the gen. Non mobile killers will get the power longer and might use it to scour the area better and mobile killers have that option too but generally wont due to their playstyle. Like I feel it wouldnt be a buff or a nerf but a change that nerfs the perk for high mobility killers while buffing it for the lower ones which is honestly who would need it more.
Honestly, that's an interesting suggestion. It could be pretty funny in combination with Insidious. I'd like that.
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@Devil_hit11 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3688300#Comment_3688300
negative. the timer is biggest issue with pop for low tier killers. See with 60 second of pop goes weasel, a killer could commit to a chase, down survivor, see that a gen nearby had progress, kick that gen then hook survivor, get another pop and kick another gen in same area.
with current pop, your pop goes weasel expires. you trade regression for distance gain for committing to kick a gen. that is why they nerfed pop goes weasel from 60 second → 45 second. a higher mobility killer can make up distance loss, a low mobility killer cannot make up distance loss. They don't get anything out of using pop if survivor is efficient. as long as 1 survivor is on a gen, by the time you catch-up to the survivor that is hold-w from your kick, they regain all progression from pop on another gen.
I disagree. Because in most cases you simply won't get a down in less than 60 seconds. Especially not when you consider that you need to traverse the map first and most killers have quite a cooldown on their mobility. That might work on Nurse or maybe Blight but for pretty much anyone else, that is not realistic. Personally, I don't see any issue with first delivering Pop and then starting a chase. Yes, that survivor will get a head start but you get some pretty noticeable slowdown out of it.
With good mobility, you can easily catch up though, which negates the downside of giving the survivor extra distance. This again means, that mobility synergises well with the perk. The regression still buys you more time than you need to catch up again on most killers. Much more and often you can switch targets and chase after someone, who does not have as much distance (granted, a Seal Team Six SWF won't let that happen though). The killers that don't make good use of Pop (like Myers and Trapper) typically use different perks, that work better with their powers. Like for example Corrupt Intervention and Deadlock.
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@sharpef3rn said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3688320#Comment_3688320
To be 100% honest I don't think that the devs meant for it to move with the killer or though of its interactions with blight and nurse. The spirit of the perk is pretty clear in that its to show survivors who hid near a gen you just kicked. I think it was a lack of foresight which is something I think should be looked into when making perks. Is this perk going to have a very strong interaction with a killers power, if so will that be a problem? (Cough cough nurse's starstruck)
I did not try to imply that and I very much agree that it's obvious the devs don't always sufficiently consider how perks interact with different things in this game.
Starstruck Nurse is a good example of that. As Boil Over in the RPD library. Or MfT against pretty much every M1 killer. Of course it can always happen that you overlook something in a game with as much content as DBD but if it takes the players only 10 seconds to think of potential issues, then the devs should see them too and be ready to make the needed changes.
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@Ilikechips said:
If survivors have found a perk that they find fun to use you can guarantee it will be nerfed.
Windows will be gutted.
Good thing nobody likes Lithe and SB, right?
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@BlightedDolphin said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3688260#Comment_3688260
Yes, Object of Obsession back when it was busted.
Wait, did they? It was nerfed only a few months after I started playing and I wasn't as invested back then, so I can't remember. But that's crazy.
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@sharpef3rn said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3688287#Comment_3688287
Okay so Blight and Trapper do the same action kick a gen. They both have 5 seconds of seeing auras. Because its centered on the killer and not gen if no auras are seen initially blight can rush at 2x the speed maintaining these wall hacks the entire time centered on him. So by covering 2x the distance as Trapper in this time he gets 2x the information. Compare this to BBQ where its still better on blight because he can get there faster but they get the same info. Or I'm all ears its the same info for any killer but some powers can utilize it better. I am basically trying to convey that I have no issue with synergy with powers, but perks and powers should help utilize them better not make the other one stronger by its nature.
Thank you. I did not think of that in this context. That's a fair point honestly.
Though, I'd say it's somewhat similar to what I wrote about UW. I'm genuinely not sure, if this is even a good thing. In my opinion Nowhere to Hide would be completely fine, if it took the gen and not the killer's position as a reference. Maybe the range could be increased slightly, if it ends up as a big nerf.
@sharpef3rn said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3688300#Comment_3688300
I agree. Pop time limit only happens when you prioritize other gens or chases not because you couldnt reach the correct gen.
I also agree kinda with the distortion. My issue with distortion is 2-fold. One is it gives information to possibly all the survivors about the killers perks. And 2nd is that it regains its charges at the wrong time. It should be while in chase you gain back charges as opposed to when in the terror radius out of chase. IE you spent time in danger you get a reprieve rather than just hiding keeps you perma safe. Personally I think Distortion should be changed to while crouched your aura isnt shown. And then buff technician and bite the bullet to block auras while doing gens and healing respectively. It removes the extra information about the killers perks, buffs two underutilized perks in minor ways and overall would be a healthier setup while still offering some level of protection. Its also SO DUMB that distortion also hides your scratch marks changing Im all ears to actually be a survivor perk. (Calm spirit cries in the corner because of the horrid nerf it got when they "tried to make it better")
The main reason, I believe you got it backwards is that this would imply that the devs intentionally design perks that way. But that's probably not the case. It's more likely that the biggest strengths different killers have, happen to synergise well with certain perks. In Pop's case, I can only say that I think it's a very healthy design philosophy. It rewards the killer for playing well and it encourages them to leave the hook. And once they get to that other gen, they might as well go for another chase, which is where Nowhere to Hide comes in.
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@BlightAbuser said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3688139#Comment_3688139
1v1 me bro!!!
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3688209#Comment_3688209
I’m not saying it’s an exploit. Hug tech was not an exploit, but it was “not intended”. I would be willing to bet a survivor being able to pinch me against a wall, breaking my collision (even if I look at the wall, it completely disables my ability to recognize collision) is not intended. Obviously, not many people have talked about this, so we don’t know the devs position on it. I like the Pluto tech, and I think it adds another layer of skill for survivors to show off, and I have only played a couple survivors who could consistently do it.
However, my point here is that the community would not look at it (including the crouch tech) with the same standard they have constantly used on the hug tech. “It rarely happens” …. “It takes skill to pull off”….. “it’s just a gimmicky tech for fun”…. All I want is consistency.
I am saying it's an exploit though. And technically everything that is used in a way the devs did and do not intend is an exploit. However, the devs did not want survivors to have collision with Blight's bump (although the main reason probably was so that you wouldn't bump into them and immediately get the hit) and this is a direct consequence of it. So I'm not completely sure, if I would consider it an exploit. It would be nice have word from them. I think it's best to wait and see how Blight fares with the changes to Hug Tech and reevaluate.
I get your position and I share it for the most part. Back when they removed SkyBilly, I said, that I would be fine with it as long as they stayed consistent. Meaning, if we're going to fix exploits for the sake of them being exploits (which was the explanation on why SkyBilly was fixed), then they'd have to follow through. That's the reason I also want the CJ tech removed. It has counter play, yes, but that is besides the point. I would however be wary to fix exploits or "techs", if that means creating worse issues. And in Blight's case, I fear that might actually be the case.
The Hug Tech is a direct consequence of the safety measure that prevents him from getting stuck in place with his rushes, so if they simply remove that, then that could actually make this killer almost unplayable on some maps. At least in theory.
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@Devil_hit11 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3688233#Comment_3688233
Pop got buffed to 60 seconds so that weaker killers could more easily use the perk. It got nerfed to 45 seconds. this nerfed weaker killer from using the perk outside of 3 gens without affecting high mobility killers to use the perk.
Ultimate weapon is getting same treatment. the duration being lowered from 30 →15 seconds but this will only affect weaker killers with low traversal but will not affect stronger killers. I don't think it is going to be huge drastic nerf like pop was but i dislike how perk is losing scream property which is removing option for killer to counter distortion.
The problem with Pop is not so much that you won't reach the gen before the duration ends. At most it takes 25 seconds to traverse the map and get to that specific gen. However, the gen could very well be finished before you make it there. That's where weaker killers usually struggle and it's why it's so important to keep chases short.
With UW I agree but again, this is less an issue with the perk and more with killer design. If more killers had good mobility, then this wouldn't be as much of an issue. Mobility is one of the things that heavily impact how good or bad a killer is. Have you ever seen a killer that good map mobility but was still horribly weak? Or have we ever had a killer that had neither a good chase power nor good mobility but was still good (besides SM, who was only that good because of specific perks and addons)?
Especially that part about Distortion rubs me the wrong way. I am of the opinion that right now Distortion is not a healthy perk. It counters a good variety of killer meta perks (even when combined, which is kind of crazy) and it takes little to keep the effect up all game. So the payoff is a bit too high for how little you actually have to do (few exceptions) and it also means, that someone else will die early because if the killer can't find you, they can't go for you, which means, that someone else will take your chases and hooks. What happens now if the killer doesn't go out of their way not to tunnel? Someone is likely going to die at 4 or 5 hooks.
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@sharpef3rn said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3688228#Comment_3688228
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3688239#Comment_3688239
It literally doesnt have to be a nerf but a change to stop giving perks added bonus to killers with mobility who are generally the strongest in the game. For example lets take No Where to Hide, if we adjusted it from 24m to 30m (which I dont think would be necessary but youre bringing up it being a nerf so okay) but made it centered on the gen instead of moving with the killer. For killers without added mobility it would be a buff because it essentially adds around 58% more area of coverage for the 5 seconds. But a killer that has mobility it would be a nerf because someone like blight cant just immediately rush and see all surviviors on the map. Because the spirit of the perk is to see the survivors near the generator to chase them off it. Or my preferred method where it lasts while you are close to the gen could allow killers to maintain the aura read longer than the 5 seconds at the cost of them staying close to the gen. This change would essentially benefit killers who need the perk more. Making information perks tied to a killers non static location for a period of time are designed in such a way that they provide more benefit to the killers with the largest map presence, which also corresponds with the strongest killers.
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3688233#Comment_3688233
No where to hide vs pop is actually a really good example. Because Pop's condition can't reach literally any gen from any hook based on the time constraint and the only part that benefits the high mobility killers more is whether they would be able to kick the gen before it gets done which is a benefit the killer has with or without the perk. Where as No Where to Hide can show a Blight 2x as much info as a Trapper for the same action making it significantly stronger on Blight.
Meanwhile the Call of Brine/Overcharge issue was literally just an issue with eruption and they got murdered in the crossfire. If they would have adjusted eruption without destroying COB and Overcharge they would have remained as viable perk alternatives without being the oppressive powerhouses they were in combination with eruption.
Could you explain what you mean with Blight getting 2x the value of Trapper? I don't follow.
The issue with CoB + OC was not Eruption. Eruption was nerfed in patch 6.6.0. CoB and Overcharge were nerfed in 6.7.0. There was a month and 2 weeks in between these patches. So they were not caught in the crossfire. The reason was that with these 2 perks, killers didn't need to end chases, which meant they could simply patrol gens, kick them and repeat with taking the free hit / down on ocassion. That was enough to drag the game out for 60 minutes, if you held a good 3gen. That was back when especially Skull Merchant and Knight were notorious for holding the game hostage. But this was possible on petty much any killer with mobility or good map pressure / territorial powers.
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@jonifire said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3688193#Comment_3688193
Maybe stop playing killer for once and play soloq instead, before posting such things. There is no way to play around this change in soloq, because you simply don‘t know wether someone has this perk or not. And after this patch it will be far less popular to a degree that it won‘t be played in soloq at all, so you would gamble for nothing with the final gen.
The hud doesn‘t help you in this situation at all, what would help is seeing all your teammates perks.
Hopefully all good killer perks and powers get those dumb restrictions too.
I last played the game yesterday. And as a matter of fact, I played in a duo (goofing off with a friend). I could play solo queue as well and honestly, I don't see the problem.
Solo survivors have no issues playing around Blood Warden either, do they? Even though they don't know if the killer has it. Because it's not hard to play around. You just make sure, you're prepared and if the killer ends up not having it (or the survivor in this case), then what's the worst that will happen? It will end as if you hadn't prepared. That's the absolute worst case scenario.
The HUD does help massively in this situation because everyone can see that the last gen is about to pop, so they can go for the unhook, while that survivor keeps the gen at 99%. It's not rocket science but simply assuming someone might have a specific perk. Just like Blood Warden. If they have it, good. If not, what's the difference?
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Good for you. Although, your MMR will drop drastically and eventually you may find yourself facing survivors that have so much less experience than you, that the game becomes boring again. I know this because I've been there before.
Eventually, you will have to start killing them again and then it feels kind of bad because you stomp them even when you try to give them a chance.
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Threatening Presence kind of sounds like a noob killer to me but not very useful against more experienced players. I don't like that. With a few tweaks it could probably be a very interesting perk though.
Leap of Faith sounds like a bad idea to me. Endurance mid-chase is never a good idea and you could also combine this with an exhaustion perk. I can already think of a few maps on which it would be absolutely disgusting.
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@sinkra said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3688238#Comment_3688238
I don't have the mental capability to memorize all the vault locations on every map and then remember which have been used per match. If Windows gets nerfed I will feel blind.
You don't need to learn every vault location and pallet spawn. It's enough to have a general idea of where to go. That's part of the survivor skill expression.
And if you cannot get to that very basic level then that is in fact a skill issue. There is no shame in not being good at a video game but you should be able to aknowledge it. The game cannot be balanced for beginners or the very best players but only for the majority. Even old WoO (the one with the cooldown) would still help you out but you would need to put a bit of thought into playing, which I honestly think is fair.
In my opinion WoO should be active permanently as long as you're not in chase, then deactivate for a while when the chase starts, activate again after a while, go on cooldown and repeat. That way, it rewards you for playing well, helps you out in learning maps and still helps beginners. The exact durations, I'm unsure about. Maybe 5 seconds active time and a 15 seconds cooldown for starters.
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@Pulsar said:
Prove is not good lol.
Tunneling isn't good for the game, it can't be solved via perks.
DS has a shorter stun time than listed due to the animation. It's something around 1.5 seconds; which is literally nothing.
Killers already have that meta build. It's called stacking four slowdowns (stronger than Survivor perks, by design) and then tunneling someone out immediately.
Tunneling isn't good for the game, it can't be solved via perks.
I think tunneling isn't good for the game when it's so common. But as a possibility, I think it is good. There should be many different strategies that can work, if done correctly in the right situations. Meaning, if a survivor makes themself vulnerable to tunneling by working on a gen right next to the killer, then it is good that it can be done. But it shouldn't work as the default play style for all killers.
I very much agree though, that a perk will not fix the issue. Especially not a licensed perk. Not everyone has access to it and even when they do, DS is not enough to stop tunneling as long as it's still the most effective play style, which is often the case. There is no greater pressure and slowdown than killing 1 of the 4 survivors early and changing that takes a lot of work.
If DS was a 10 seconds stun (think about it for a bit), I'd probably tunnel every game. Because a higher stun duration also means more reason to use it aggressively. And if I have to deal with DS anyway, then I might as well do it on my terms. So buffing DS further is not a solution either.
There will need to be further base kit adjustments. Incentives for the killer to spread hooks (perks are not enough, though they are a good start) and more base kit protection against tunneling. But please, no more base kit perks.
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You've got it backwards. It's not that strong perks are designed to be better on strong killers but that strong killers usually have the tools to synergise well with meta perks.
Take Pop and Nowhere To Hide for example. Both are often used in combination on exactly the gens that survivors work on. But to even get to that gen before it's finished you need to activate Pop quickly, so you need fast chases and reach the gen shortly after, which means you'll need mobility. Good case powers + good mobility usually is enough to make a killer good.
We had a time when weaker killers were able to use meta perks just as well as stronger killers but to be honest, that was miserable. CoB + OC worked but it wasn't a healthy combination, simply because it had no special conditions. If they were to bring back this combination now, you'd need to pair it with Nowhere To Hide and it would probably be horrible for solo queue players because they are mostly not coordinated enough to make the killer waste their regression events on all gens but pretty useless against a good SWF because they would simply bait out the 8 kicks and then push through with no trouble. Keep in mind, if you can get back on thag gen immediately, the regression is almost non existent.
So redesigning meta perks will not work. Instead we need to focus on the killers that struggle and change them accordingly. Killers need at least 1) a good chase power or 2) good mobility (often both because otherwise you need to compensate for the lack of one by doubling down on the other). Many killers have a few extra things in their kit but there is no way around these 2.
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Survivor:
- Ace
- Feng
- Jane
- Dwight
- Yui
- Kate
- Bill
- Mikaela
- Jill
- Meg
I'm honestly not sure about the order of the last 3.
Killer:
- Billy
- Doctor
- Nemesis
- Bubba
- Blight
- Freddy
- Deathslinger
- Plague
- Huntress
- Michael Myers
Freddy could probably be a bit higher. I have played many games of Freddy. For some reason, whenever I want to do something gimmicky Freddy comes to mind and I'll play him for a few matches. Though I have never really mained him.
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Freddy.
They should return back to the roots with his design and go from there. Also, why exactly are scratch marks desaturated when you play as Freddy? Is he so strong, that we need to make it harder for him to keep track of survivors? I think not.
Also, I'm not sure failing a skill check should wake you up. It just sounds wrong that a survivor can mess up to counter a killer's power.
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I'm all for removing the crouch tech. It's silly that this has ever been a thing.
For pluto tech, I'm honestly unsure I would even classify it as a tech. The word "tech" is used to describe exploits, tolerated by the devs and the community. But blocking Blight's bump doesn't really sound like an exploit to me (it's kind of hard to explain). So, I'm honestly not sure, if it should be fixed for the sake of fixing techs. Especially considering it's one of the few things survivors can do against a good Blight and it also takes a good bit of skill to do it well enough to make a difference.
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I stopped running meta builds about 2 1/2 years ago and yes, I do feel that the game punishes me for it. On killer more so than on survivor (although that might have to do with my survivor MMR being probably lower than my killer MMR). Playing without slowdown really shows you some glaring issues and it also helps understanding why regression perks are so popular.
The game simply outpaces you otherwise. A match can easily end in less than 5 minutes and delaying the killer for that long does not require a lot of effort (assuming it's not a top tier Nurse). Just think about how much time a killer loses just from running around the map and hooking survivors. That's easily a minute for every 3 chases. Now factor in how much time you actually need for a chase. That can easily exceed a minute. So you get about 3 chases in 4 minutes, if you're somewhat quick. This also assumes, that there is nothing out of the ordinary like the odd flashlight / pallet save, sabo play, a mistake in chase that allows the survivor to make extra distance, strong main building or tile, Buckle Up + FTP etc.
With slowdown perks you can slow the game, so that you can actually win by chases and while I would agree that 4 slowdown perks are a bit over the top (and possibly too strong), no slowdown is even worse of an issue.
As a solo queue survivor I find that I get a lot of value out of a variety of perks. Of course there is not really an alternative to exhaustion perks (which are meta) but I've been running Open Handed + Bond for a while and it's honestly amazing how much you can do with such information. CoH can also give you a lot of value, although it's less consistent. I also like Shadow Step (which will become even more powerful with the upcoming change to UW). They won't work every match but when they do, they really make a big difference.
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@jonifire said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3687324#Comment_3687324
You really think any soloq player will wait for a chance of someone having Adre to finish the last gen?! No one would, especially since this perk will be played as often as COH after this nerf. This changes only punish soloq players and make a little difference in swf.
I don‘t care much about the speed boost, but no longer getting a heal of hook makes this perk, which already gives rarely value, terrible.
Most times I only get exhausted by this perk in endgame or I don‘t even get to endgame, which leaves me with only 3 perks in most matches.
You maybe get 2-3 times in 10 matches value from this perk, now even less.
If solo queue players don't do that, then it's simply a skill issue. Nothing more to it. You have the HUD for things like this and solo players are fully capable of 99ing gates as well. This is not much different.
The value of Adrenaline comes mainly from the instant heal. This effect is not gone. It just needs a bit more preparation. The decreased duration of the speed boost was unnecessary but it's not like that kills the perk. I mean, you make 3s * 1.4m/s = 4.2m of distance. On the killer. That takes 7 seconds to catch up again for a 4.6m/s killer and you're also fully healed. The difference is that the chase doesn't end. But you're still in a very advantageous position and assuming someone will start opening an exit gate soon, you shouldn't have much of an issue escaping. The situations in which this isn't enough are pretty much the same as before.
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I guess you'll see Victor's aura, so the slug can't disappear on you. It also seems like the survivor on the ground can't be healed until Victor is gone. Otherwise, there would be no use in crushing Victor to "help" them.