Warlock_2020
Warlock_2020
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@immortalls96 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/663999#Comment_663999
True but hook suicides should be treated the same or removed completely , because itll be used as a workaround once dcing gets hammered on..
I disagree. Suiciding on hook is an option to surrender the game. It does not rob the killer of sacrifice points. Granted, some are bad sports and use it if they are just mad, but I've even used it when I have a team of potatoes all sitting around the hook doing nothing while the killer is on the other side of the map. I've seen people use it when they are hardcore tunneled off the hook, and I don't blame them.
It is a choice as to whether try to kobe off. Then you have a choice as to whether struggle or give in. Both are in the game's design and there for a reason.
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@katoptris said:
Myers is only good against people who let him stalk him. He fine where he at
This is only true of scrub players who are running Shape. Shape can be very good. It depends on the person running them, and the build. Keep at it, watch some streamers and the builds they use for Shape. Monto has some good ones, and I've seen Puppers run a few good builds as well (likely running Monto's builds).
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@immortalls96 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/663962#Comment_663962
The difference is one group is violating tos..and the other are just scrubs
Though I don't disagree at all, the overall conversation has been about people who suicide on hook. That is not a violation of anything. But, I agree about the DC'ers and the scrubs.
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They all depip'ed and are currently running green rank killers around maps.
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Those who say the game was not designed with verbal communication in mind are not really thinking outside the box. If that is true, then the developers have been living under a box. Anyone who has two brain cells to rub together can anticipate that players will use Discord and try to coordinate getting on the same match. It used to happen way back in other online shooter games in the 90's and all the way to now. Nothing new. The developers knew that communication could, and would be used to form teams in this game. It is impossible that they did not.
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@chieftaco said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/663947#Comment_663947
what keeps the game where you think it is being kept is players refusing to understand that not knowing how to break a camp is the solution to camping, so get better, break camps, and have no more complaints about made up "horrible grief system"(s).. switch instead your complaints to your "horrible teammates" that are too busy complaining on forums in hopes of an alternate game to just stop and get better at the game.
i guess people are just miraculously blown away by how super awesome they are at reaching skill caps that are astronomical in such little amounts of time way too often.
here's your direct notification: you can still get much better at this game if you are worried about camping killers. see my message above if you need more info. you're welcome.
Break camp is not always a simple solution. Hit the gens quick to open gates, and NOED gets you. If you are a group of solo survivors, you have no way of knowing if/who hit what totems. Look, the game has seriously flaws that are easily exploited by toxic players. It is what it is. You can't change it at this point.
P.S.: I don't care about camping. I rarely play survivor as it is. I'd rather be in the driver seat as killer.
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@immortalls96 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/662734#Comment_662734
But you can clean out the ones not worth keeping
Wait, DC'ers and suiciders are not worth keeping, but face campers are? My point is, you will not clear those people out unless you rework the whole system. Does not matter. Play your game. If you don't like how people react, and you think you want to try another style, try it. You can't do much about the toxicity in this game, other than ignore it and try to find those who are not so toxic.
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Nothing will be done about camping, ever. It was a horrible grief system left open in the game's design. It is PART of the toxic style of play that keeps this game from really hitting big and having huge player numbers. I've seen so many new players leave due to either camping/tunneling killers who are purposely deranked and torture new players, or groups of survivors who derank just to mess with new killers.
It is a toxic system that the developers don't have the balls to do anything about, and it will forever be an albatross on the neck of the game.
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@Kebek said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/662893#Comment_662893
Aaaaand you'll possibly ruin the game for 4 other people. But as long as you're having fun it's ok right. I wonder how you feel about your teammates that DC instantly when they get downed each match you start 3 times in a row.
You probaly really like them since you share same philosophy that they were not having fun and so they left you and other teammates behind. So much fun really.
That's an empty argument. How many killers have bragged about camping/tunneling and said they don't play for other people's enjoyment? Same goes for a survivor who is stuck in a crap match with a toxic killer and potato survivors.
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@UlvenDagoth said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/663875#Comment_663875
I don't feel he is anywhere near the middle of the pack. He's one of the worst. Let's be real, the Top 3 are LEAGUES better than rank 4. Legion is low low tier now. What proof do you have that he is in the middle?
He's still better than Trapper, Wraith, Clown, and I'd put Legion above Plag. Legion is an effective killer when the player pressures the map and keeps everyone holding M1 instead of on gens. I've seen some really good killers run Legion and do quite well. Then, I've seen the typical Legion player, who tunnels a target until they are down and can't see the forest through the trees. I literally sat, untouched, working a gen next to a looping Legion because they were too stubborn to break off and wound me. Not the devs fault there.
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No, it should not. I don't play survivor much, but when I do, I like having that option. If I'm playing in an absolute potato group that is being stupid/toxic, I like the option to suicide. If I'm playing a camper and I see my team members are not on gens and are heading my way, I like the option to suicide. Sometimes, I think I want to play survivor, load up, get a massive tunnel bunny killer, and realize I am not in the mood for this stupidity. So, suicide, and back to killer.
It's funny, I rarely get anyone using suicide as an option in my killer matches. The typical 3rd survivor might do it in order for the 4th to get away, but beyond that, I don't see it that often. Could have something to do with the fact that I tend to pressure the map and not tunnel/camp unless the situation calls for it (door open/gens done and survivor is nearby).
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Just wait till Double BP when everyone runs Ebony Mori's. That is fun.
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Legion before the nerf was the ultimate griefer's killer. Now, he is just middle of the pack.
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I think this would be worth trying. Worst case scenario, it is toxic like the rest of the game. Beat case scenario, it allows for more relaxed and fun matches.
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@joker7997 said:
Man, this conversation got completely stupid. Like a brick wall arguing with the pavement.
LOL. Best description yet.
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@Fibijean said:
@Warlock_2020 I think the frustration is more that people are trying to pretend that having fun is, objectively, the same thing as winning. It's fine to play casually, it's fine to aim for personal goals, it's fine to just want to have fun or to not care about the win condition. But that doesn't mean there isn't one.
Honestly, I think the main point of confusion is the ambiguity around the word "you" in the OP. A lot of people seem to have interpreted it to mean what personally makes them feel like they've won, but it could also be interpreted as how does "one" define the win condition, objectively, which is the point NuclearBurrito is arguing if I'm not mistaken.
In many ways, your entire post backs up my statement. There is zero clear cut evidence of a win beyond the fact that you are given a pip for scoring high enough. Is 1k a win or do you have to get 4k? Is escaping a win, or is ensuring the other 3 escaped while you ran the killer around a win? Many developers or CMs have used the word "fun" as a win.
Why? Because this is not, and never will be, a competitive game in the sense that there are clear cut winners and losers in every match. It is a party game. Yes, there are competitive aspects and you play both with and against people, just like any multiplayer game, but it is not so easy to measure wins and losses all the time in this game.
That is why it is a bit presumptuous for someone to get belligerent over the idea that someone playing a video game is doing so to have fun and not concerned with meeting his expectations of wins and losses. The OP was looking for the varying views people have about wins and losses in the game, not the official definition, which does not truly exist.
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Unfortunately, that is a flaw in the game. The design of the game leaves a lot of room for toxic gameplay on both sides. It causes the game to often step on it's own toes, limiting its ability to grow significantly.
Not sure it can be fixed. I miss the days of communal policing by the players where behavior was checked in order to promote game health. Those were much more mature communities and name and shame was not an issue then. Not sure ther is a way anymore. Just grin and bear it or play something else?
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@NuclearBurrito you need to relax and take a step back. Try to read the original question and intent again. Read the dev/community mgr even defined it. The answer is different for every player. You seem to be frustrated that others are not trying as hard as you, because they just want to have fun. Makes no sense.
Personally, I work an extremely high stress job where I deal with the scum of the earth. I play video games to unwind and relax. If I want to apply myself and try for a true win, I'm playing something a bit more intense than DbD. Not sure why that is making you so salty over it all. Some people are playing the casual game causally, get used to it.
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@NuclearBurrito said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/660700#Comment_660700
You don't play to win. Ok cool, just say that.
DON'T PRETEND YOU DO.
Wow kid, you got it rough. Tell me, would it bother you greatly to get owned in a match by someone who "does not play to win" by your standards? Just curious. You seem pretty salty over the fact that I consider fun a win in a casual video game. Rofl
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@NuclearBurrito said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/660629#Comment_660629
Still not what a win is.
Personal Goal? Yes. But the distinction is important.
You know what DOES get to define victory to others? The game being played. And I have repeatedly shown that the game has an unambiguous win condition. At that point it isn't an opinion. It isn't "just to me", but it's an objective win condition and you must achieve before you can correctly say that you have won a round of dead by daylight.
But ok, lets humor you. You say the win condition is fun? How are the developers now supposed to balance with that in mind? How do they go about quantifying it in order to ensure that no character is overpowered or underpowered?
If winning is fun then how does a high level player go about optimizing a build with which to achieve this goal? In fact, how do you even determine a high level player at all? And how would you even begin to go about constructing a ranking system that puts the players who have the most fun at the highest rank and the players with the least fun at the lowest?
Still a fail man. You can define what you want, but the question is what "I" define as a win. You can beat your chest and talk about competitive game all you want, but it does not change the fact that the game is balanced around the bulk of casual players. It is a casual party game and people play it for different reasons. Perhaps someone plays just to face camp a survivor each match and that is a win to them. Nothing you ever say will change that. Why? This is not a competitive game on esports level.
So, I play for fun, and my list of fun is my own, you don't have any say in it. Relax.
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@NuclearBurrito said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/660590#Comment_660590
That's not what winning is.
Casual or not Dead by Daylight is a competitive game.
No that's not an oxymoron. The opposite of competitive is cooperative and not casual.
Mario Party is a competitive game for example. Do you win if you have fun in Mario party? NO! You win if and only if you have the most stars.
It's the same deal here, the only difference is that instead of getting stars your goal is to either escape or murder people depending on your role. Does that mean it isn't casual? No, does a game being casual fundamentally change how win conditions work? No. Can you ignore the wincondition and do something else anyways? Sure, but do declare that something else is winning is to say that you aren't playing the same game in the first place.
Maybe to you, but not to all. You don't get to define victory to others in a casual party game. The goal is fun. You only have the power to define your version of victory.
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@NuclearBurrito said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/652140#Comment_652140
It's really not.
The game guide specifies a win. The only vagueness is the number of Kills required as a Killer.
I don't care what anyone thinks. For me, winning is having a good time. As killer, I've had good mind game wins, lots of hooks, and a few laughs. I'm good, since I play for fun.
As survivor, I've aided my team by doing some gens, or running the killer, making a risky save or performed well enough for the killer to comment on it afterwards. I'm not salty and could not care less about kills, pips, escapes, etc. Heck, I'll run back in and give the killer a kill if everyone is escaping and he is obviously new or was not horribly toxic.
Winning in a casual party game like DbD is very subjective.
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@oxygen said:
Funnily enough, Trapper.
Absolutely love playing him, but as a survivor I'm a complete trap magnet. Sure I'll play around common trap spots, but when Trappers pull out their weird and unexpected spots... if you've got me in your match, your feet are safe. As I'll find a way to step in every single one of them 😄
YES!
I main Trapper and tend to only play survivor when my wife plays. When we play a Trapper, I become a total potato. I might as well have a trap stuck on me the whole time. If it was possible to get caught in two traps at once, I would.
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Purple rank killer waiting in que for 15 to 20 minutes.
Purple ranked survivor only getting lobbies with killers in China or South America who have 300 ping.
This is like the horrible matchmaking that we had months ago.
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@looking said:
I believe that these people are not honest in the game. In any case, my experience shows it. I began to meet quite often with players whose 10-45 achievements the game received at the same time and on the same day. I honestly earned all my achievements. Played for every killer and spent time on it. It annoys me because the value of them is lost. Where you can send complaints about such people.
If you read through this forum, honesty, character, humanity, decency, and sportsmanship are not present. Most of the posters here care only about themselves and their experience. I would not waste my time talking morality and honesty here.
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@snowflake102 said:
Also the one that escaped said i wasted my mori and claimed he and his buddys were better then me. lol even though hes the only one that escaped lol.
then the 2nd one was really salty and claimed he was better then me. lol and he was mad because i mori him lol. hes the one that should learn to not tea beg me hahaha:D
ah well gg
That is barely even salt bro. I've had worse without using addons or mori. That does not rise to the level of a ban. Just some dudes ticked because you used a powerful offering. Better get thicker skin if you think this was bad.
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Rank 9 on mine and it takes 15. Survivor rank 10 atm and all my matches are with Chinese killers.
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No need to nerf Freddy. Just wish they would make the pallets base kit and the traps an addon. Pallets are fun. I even like them when I play survivor. Nice surprise sometimes.
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As a killer who rarely slugs, I would support this. I don't care if it robs the killer of joy. Give them points as if they were sacrificed. Make it a 5-10 second delay before hatch can open as well. Nothing to cry about by killers that way, other than those who are just wanting to annoy others.
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I've also noticed some really high latency matches. Are we getting matched up with China and South America during prime hours again? I have nearly a 10 minute wait for matches as killer, and only high latency lobbies as survivor?
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Trapper - Carry 2 as default. Can retrieve new traps from locker, no more than 10 on the map at a time.
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I'm usually looking for Waldo. Sometimes I do that as killer too, or I try to work on a gen. Trapper is not that smart you know. :)
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Clown
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No
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@Peanits based on your post, and taking into consideration my above post, why not alter a useless perk?
If killers fail to kill survivors before the gens are done there are two perks to help, NOED and Remember Me. If they fail to stop the gates from opening there is Blood Warden. 3 chances to help a failing killer. So why not alter the now pointless Lone Survivor to allow the survivor to either open gates faster when alone and EGC is active, or reopen hatch for 15 seconds after it is closed? Neither is game breaking and forces the killer to monitor hatch and doors for a few seconds. If the survivor still fails, that is on them.
I don't blame the solo survivors for having crap team members, so running SS might be a way to mitigate the solo survivor stuck with a bad SWF.
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Simple fix
Ser a standard for the doors and how far apart they should be. If the distance is shorter, shave off x seconds to open gates for every so many meters. If the distance is longer add x seconds to open gates for every so many meters. Keeps the field balanced and nobody has a legit complaint at that point.
I'd also recommend there being a LoS blocker so the killer has to at least move 10 to 16 meters in any direction to see the gates. I've had matches where I trap both hates and can see them from a well placed hill in the middle. That is a boring wait for EGC to end. (Forgot to add that the hatch was on the same hill.)
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Puppers is fun to vs. He is usually a good sport with a sense of humor and does not take the game overly serious.
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I can't keep up with the issues of the day. It bounces too much.
Toolboxes
Instant heals
Keys
Loops
Pallets
Why are windows still in the game?
Why is hatch still .......
NOED
Instant downs
Moris
BBQ
Bushmaster Claudette.....ok, I made that one up
Seriously, these are not worth the fuss. This forum is 80% whine and 20% decent ideas. Can we stop crying over the little things, or make a sub forum for issues of the week that can be ignored by logical people?
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Not that rare. I easily get one on every blood web at 50. Not that instant heals are rare either. I get the same amount as EB.
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Aside from Trapper, Dr is my go to. I often let the unhooked run off if I see them within a few seconds of unhook. I aim for map pressure and lots of hooks. If I see you after getting unhooked, I might down you, but will usually move in unless you have been toxic previously in the match. I don't expect this of other killers though. It is just my way of getting a challenge.
So no, not all camp or tunnel.
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Definitely run NOED if you are camping. It is the ultimate reward for the lazy killer. If they power the gens with only one totem left, they are all exposed and you one hit down them until they destroy the hex totem.
See, the key to beating a camper is to hit the gens and ignore the hoked player. But, if they use the one counter play to camping and hit the gens, you win another two kills with NOED easily.
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@Peanits said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/652272#Comment_652272
There's only so much you can do. Maps are procedurally generated.
To give an example, say you spawn the gates on opposite walls. That's great, but if I can see both gates and the map is small enough, you'll have the same problem.
So then you might say, "Well add a LOS check between the two gates." Which is great and all, but that only checks between the two gates. That doesn't take into account every possible position on the map and whether or not you can stand at a specific point to see both gates.
I've even had a game recently where the gates spawned on opposite walls with plenty of LOS blockers in the way, but I could still use the lodge to see over them and watch both gates.
There are things we could try to do, but in the end, there's always going to be situations like that.
True enough. I do think there needs to be a concede button for those situations though.
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@Peanits you mentioned the biggest problem. Tgough I agree with your statement, the problem is that the gates do spawn that close together. It should never happen. I can't tell you how many times I've stood on a hill or a combine with a trap on each door and a clear site of both. No survivor stands a chance at all when that happens.
If the developers are too lazy to fix that issue, then give the survivor a concede button. Seriously, it is boring to stand there knowing the survivor will stay hidden and wait out EGC timer. Maybe campers enjoy it, but most of us prefer to be engaged in gameplay.
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How much paint has this guy inhaled in his life?
Good job Lil Jimmy, now put the dead cats away before going outside.
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@TAG said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/649634#Comment_649634
Here's a tweak: Insta-heals now take 12 seconds to kick in after use.
Here's a compromise, if the survivor is in dying state, one health state is healed instantly. Beyond that, the heal takes 10 to 12 seconds to kick in.
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@TAG said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/649627#Comment_649627
If Survivors gotta suck it up and take their nerfs, Killers gotta suck it up as well. Balance OP Killer stuff, including Moris. Balance OP Survivor stuff, including the insta-heal add-ons.
You know it won't happen that way.
Look, you and I are just going to have to agree to disagree. I'm more into the concept of tweaking things slightly in order to keep from going too far. Being creative with the tweaks to not only move towards balance, but create fun and creative gameplay. I think it calls for a surgeon's scalpel, not a butcher's cleaver.
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@MassiveToggaf said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/649615#Comment_649615
Smurfs work both ways and in my very limited experience, given that it's on PS4, there are more Survivors running 4 "meta" perks at ranks 10-20 than Killers running "meta" perks. Which is bad because it doesn't lead to killer retention which is just as relevant as Survivor Retention.
I don't disagree with you at all. The point I was making is if we balance all the things killers want, the killers may be better set to deal with the smurf survivor, but survivors will be completely hosed in the reverse.
I'm arguing against the constant want for removal of things like keys and instant heals. I suggest tweaks to make instant heals not so easily abused, but still powerful items. I'm also against removal of instant downs. I know many whiney survivors would love that. I don't think it is going to help balance anything if you removed it.
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@TAG said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/649615#Comment_649615
Who said that things would only be re-balanced on the Survivor side? Some things can and should be nerfed on the Killer side too. The point is that the game should be balanced for both sides.
The argument is not that 3k/4k is not attainable with insta-heals. It is possible to beat someone using something OP, especially if that someone isn't particularly good anyways. The argument is that insta-heals simply offer too much of an advantage to Survivors.
Haha. What killer nerfs are going to be slightly accepted from red rank killers. That is the whiniest group of players I've ever seen. SWF is too powerful, nerf it. Keys, hatch (still complaining), heals, gens, healing, not healing, totems, loops, pallets, etc. There is a new whine each week. Heck, each week when the shrine comes out we should just add the killer whine in too.
I get it, I've played the toxic little Jackball survivor groups in the reds too. But, I can also see the big picture. It is about tweaks, not full blown nerfs. I can honestly say that the red rank killers are just as salty as the red rank survivors. It's why I stay out of those ranks now.
That's why I suggested the instant heals be tweaked (earlier posts), not done away with. Much harder to abuse them, and they are more balanced that way.
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@TAG said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/649224#Comment_649224
"Many are competitive games, or seek to be. DbD is not a competitive game, as in it is not a tournament game nor will it ever be in that genre. It is a casual party game. Alienate the casual crowd and it is a dead in the water game."
A game does not have to be a tournament game to be balanced for higher-skilled players while still being enjoyable for lesser-skilled players. Many games that are not tournament games strive for that balance.
What do you base your claim of "DBD dies if it focuses it balance on higher ranks" on? How often has a game's player base died because it decided to balance around high-skill players?
Moris can be nerfed as well, since they are also imbalanced. Insta-downs are fine outside of one or two exceptions.
My claim it would die is based on the fact that survival rate is already low at the most populated ranks of the game, casuals. Taking away more tools, and add in all the other crying about keys and gen timers that high level wants "balanced" and those ranks will completely fall off. Who is going to want to play at those ranks when you are nothing more than a pinata for a deprived 13 year gold's smurf account? Population drops, not enough survivors and the game dwindles.
It is why the devs are not taking these drastic moves. It would be foolish. I've played plenty at the red ranks. Instant heals can be frustrating, but getting 3 to 4k in those matches is still attainable with enough skill. It is not the dire issue these threads make them out to be.
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@TAG said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/648327#Comment_648327
Tell that to all the multiplayer games out there that balance for high-level play but still have casual player bases.
Many are competitive games, or seek to be. DbD is not a competitive game, as in it is not a tournament game nor will it ever be in that genre. It is a casual party game. Alienate the casual crowd and it is a dead in the water game. Thus why they constantly avoid balancing from the red ranks down. How many times has peanits mentioned casual players and casual swf groups and how they would be unfairly punished if balancing was focused on red rank swf groups?
Like it or not, instant heals are not imbalanced when you take instant downs and even moris into consideration.