VomitMommy
VomitMommy
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as it gives Skull Merchant 4% Haste
It's 3%, or 5% if another survivor got scanned / claw trap somehow...
Broken
I will gladly get rid of this, if your issue is too many status effects... Just make it always Mending.
for the Hinder to exist
Oh right, because drones being useless against injured survivors is not an issue.
I feel bad when I catch someone with the Hinder
I have never understood this. Even with Hindered (which takes a long time to get) and movement speed buff, it is less than Clown's Hindered (15%), while Clown can get also way faster (10%).
Skull merchant has usually 13% difference and it takes long time to get.
It's way weaker than pallet breaking she used to have.
they didn't deserve to get hit
they got scanned 4 times, how did they not deserve it?
0 counterplay
you can crouch, or just stand next to a pallet...
Claw Trapped is already very good for the Skull Merchant
How so?
Her information part got way worse, because unless survivors are bad, you will get Claw trap mostly in chase only. I kinda know where they are at that point. Yeah, it can help against mind games, but it also depends on how good is survivor...
If you want to remove Hindered, then buff movement speed bonus. So she has still decent chase, but it's not as annoying for survivors.
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What is the problem exactly?
Killer slugged to get 4k and didn't play for hatch. How is number of perks related to it?
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Does anyone know what happened to him?
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@Shroompy said:
Like I understand not wanting voice chat in a game because you want to avoid toxicity, but to this day I have not seen a game where disabling VC wasn't an option.
Its just as dumb as people who complain about the endgame chat. Don't like it? just turn it off. Plain and simple.
There is an issue this feature would basically make it impossible to get any QoL for soloQ, because they have option to talk with others.
Doesn't matter most people are not going to use it. Doesn't matter it would be used mainly to insult other players. They would have option to talk...
I don't really think that is a good thing.
Most SWF couldn't care less about it. When I play with friends, I want to talk with them... I can see some hardcore SWF using it for challenge, but that's about it.
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Killers need to have option to bleed out survivors as long Background Player exists.
Survivors can also get spots, where it is impossible to hook them. Well, bleed out...
I can see having 4 slugs and killer waiting is not really nice, but it's definetly not bannable. Could be fixed with give up system...
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I play mostly Knight and Skull merchant, but I didn't manage to get 4 bots yet...
I think everyone should be able to leave without penalty when there are at least 3 bots, so killer and last survivor don't have to stay unless they want to.
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It's funny how survivors complain about hold W killers like Knight, or Skull merchant, but also don't like killers where you need to play loops properly instead of just holding W.
I guess a punching bag is only option.
Blight is completely fine except some addons. I consider him quite fun to play against.
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@bjorksnas said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3620971#Comment_3620971
Spirit was to balance out her previous effects of being very hard to track on top of powerful addons. What's worse than a killer moving 10m/s that you can see, one that you can't. Invisible window vaulting, passive phasing, no blinding at pallets, bad to no information, spirits 110 was to balance the real lack of any counterplay because of her not being visible most of the time on top of the fact she used to be much easier to use with bumping into survivors while phasing and stronger post phase speedboost (flat instead of decreasing over time).
Hag has the strongest traps in the game and a decent set of addons to boot, if she was 115 that really wouldn't make sense since she like nurse can be everywhere at once the only difference is they have to trigger a trap (or you have to have mint rag) and due to it being "invisible" most of the time because the traps are hard to see and with a good hag hard to predict you can see why she is 110. Default chase on top of that would be too much.
The visibility of a killer is a secondary to why their movement speed might be slower, but blight is real and you can see him so he gets the 115 pass
I gave a simple answer to the first guy because I didn't want to put effort into my response
I gave a simple answer to the first guy because I didn't want to put effort into my response
Understandable
Don't take me wrong, I really don't think basekit of Blight needs to be nerfed. Neither pallet breaking, or basic speed.
I consider his addons only issue. If you rework speed addons, Alchemist's Ring and Compound Thirty-Three, then I really don't have an issue with Blight.
I consider his quite fun to play against...
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@bjorksnas said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/401661/blight-needs-more-than-just-addon-nerfs
4.4 is for ranged killers, ok its justified NEXT
That's not really true.
Spirit and Hag are 110% for example.
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@Orthane said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3620952#Comment_3620952
No they would not, if that were the case then Wesker would be weak at loops since his ability to vault them is way weaker than breaking them since the cooldown is super long and slows you down. Also Billy is infinitely harder than Blight the two aren't even comparable, Blight is pretty easy even to just pick up.
Blight's skill floor is managable only because he is 115%, so even if you are not godlike, you can play loops like normal killer. That wouldn't be the case as 110%. Even worse without pallet breaking. His skill ceiling is one of highest in DBD.
Wesker doesn't need anything to bounce from, his power is way easier to use. Vaulting is worse than pallet break, but it's definetly not useless part of his power. He also has infections on top of it all.
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@Orthane said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3620938#Comment_3620938
I don't want him to be useless I want him to actually have to use his power at loops instead of just being able to zoom across the map for free and then chase like a normal M1 killer despite having one of the strongest powers in the game.
Most loops would be terrible for him without pallet breaking.
You are just trying to make Billy 2.0. One of hardest killers, but when power level doesn't match the difficulty, it's not worth it.
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You really want him beyond useless...
I consider him quite fun to play against, so his addons are only issue for me.
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Yeah, I have 2k hours and keep playing, but I really wouldn't want to start playing from 0.
matchmaking, grind, paywall etc.
but good luck for you, if you want to play survivor, it's better to start SWF, so you have players to teach you. Starting soloQ only is going to be hell.
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@jonifire said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3620460#Comment_3620460
What does everybody mean with „OP“
“original poster” or “original post”
I don't even remember how I got to it, probably Reddit.
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@Skitten56 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3620092#Comment_3620092
Her current version is still pretty awful and has a lot of problems imo. She just can't camp down a 3gen as easily anymore. I personally wish they kept her old kit but nerfed drones placed within the area of a gen. BHVR loves to completely rework killers though rather than do simple fixes to address their issues, like they did with Onryo for example.
Well, I will gladly argue about so called issues, but OP has issue with 3-gen. Which is currently on par with many other killers after her rework, so it doesn't make sense to me.
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Internet explorer, or you didn't play before her rework?
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@Raptorrotas said:
If there was a proximity chat ingame survivors would use that... to insult the killer while still using the untraceable third-party-voicechats for proper talking/strategizing. Who'd use range restricted vc when theres discord?
Let's face it, survivors dont want voicechat added to the game, especially if it comes with restrictions. As soon it becomes part of the game, it'd be part of the game balance and thus be reason for buffs/nerfs.
Some sort of ping tool (glowing marker visible to people) or message system ( "heal me numbskull", "focus gens") would be preferable, even if the ping tool would also buff swfs even more.
I would like to see chat wheel with multiple possible options and you could select let's say 5 options you want to use in game.
That would be way better feature than some player cards / borders...
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@jonifire said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3619871#Comment_3619871
Maybe they make it, the longer the game goes and the killer 3 gens, the gen takes less time to complete-> after 10min of 3 gening 70s gens or after a certain number of kicks
sure, they just need to make it sure for it be simple safety net feature, not something effective where survivors might want to 3-gen on purpose.
I believe it's something survivors still should be careful about and try to prevent it.
This feature should just remove Chess merchant issues in future imo.
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Depends if they want just fix 3-gen, then you can make some crazy outlier situation like when killer kicked same gen 10+ times with 1 gen remaining, then they can't kick it anymore, or something like that.
That's simply not going to happen in most cases and is long enough to hold 3-gen for normal duration of time, but you will not get Chess merchant levels.
Or they could try to go for balancing to slow early game and make easier late game, but that's kinda tough to do with killer differences in terms of power level.
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I determined the killers
You think you decide that based on such a small sample and highly personal experience?
It simply shows killer who you (or your teammates) can play against or not...
Such a small sample is also very luck dependent. It doesn't decide anything.
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Well, then give it some effort and save them... It is possible against most killers and way more satisfying to get 4 escapes (at least for me). It's kinda boring when killer just gives up.
You just want killer to go stand in corner of the map until you leave or what?
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@xCakeStick said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3619373#Comment_3619373
Nah... how about we add back the old hex skill checks?
Why would you bring back noob stomper perk? We really don't need those.
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@UndeddJester said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3619399#Comment_3619399
So basically even tho her speed and hindered are weaker, it's supposed to bigger issue just because it's easier to use?
That seems balanced to me, it's not as difficult to use, so it is weaker...
Thing is though, its not weaker. Most Clowns don't stack up yellow bottle and purples at majority of loops. 15% Hindered is enough most of the time.
10% Hindered and a 3% speed boost for all intents and purposes is effectively the same thing. You have the point that SM can't apply her speed swing as easily as Clown, but again, she can keep getting her speed boost, her Hindered, her killer instinct and everything, without needing to aim anything, all while building bloodlust, with no downtime and no reload, which Clown can not.
But skull merchant wouldn't need to actually use the shock, right? I can just keep running around the loop, getting bloodlust, while you can't vault the pallet. If you vault, you get tagged and can't vault back.
This would be so annoying to deal with
I still don't get you here, because in all scenarios the same problems exist for Hinder but are almost always worse. We don't need a Doctor level 2.5s action block shock, that number can be fiddled with to meet something reasonable, but a Hindered effect will always be an issue unless you want to make it really short too?
For the shock, against a weak loop, yes the shock has this problem she can just keep running after you until you get shocked, but unless she accounts for when the shock hits you and/or changes drone rotation accordingly, you can still threaten vaults before your scan. You can even bait a less optimal vault just before the shock to get a swing, you juke the hit and and leave. The problem is much less against a strong loop, cause when you get to the pallet from out of sight of the scan, you can throw/vault before your shock scan, and when she breaks the pallet, she loses bloodlust, and you get the distance while she breaks. The point is, a shock only hurts you when you want to throw a pallet or vault...
However with the Hinder, both strong and weak loops are worse, cause on a weak loop she does the same thing as before... but now whether you vault or not she just doesn't break and catches you regardless, the hinder makes it so any attempt to leave is completely pointless, so you must leave before hand. At a strong loop, you can throw like before, only this time you don't care about when you get scanned, cause the Hinder is gonna hit you anyway. Even if she breaks and loses bloodlust, you still don't make distance while she breaks cause you have the Hinder vs. Her speed boost. Hinder hurts you no matter what you're doing.
I genuinely can't think of a scenario where I'd prefer having my ankles broken, vs. say a 1.5 action block from a shock.
Edit: What's also nice about the shock is it behooves Skull Merchant to use her radar to change the beam direction at the right time for the shock to allow her to convert to a hit. This means she isn't building bloodlust cause she is using her power... as opposed to Hinder where she doesn't really need to care when it hits the survivor, as long as it hits.
As an aside... does anyone know why Skull Merchant gets Killer instinct when a claw trapped survivor is scanned? I never understood that... she literally has a radar for this exact purpose... why even use the radar when Killer Instinct does the same thing better?
Have a harsher alert beep and colour the blip orange or something would be my choice.
15% Hindered is enough most of the time.
of course it is weaker. Skull merchant usually has only 3% movement speed bonus and even if you tried your best (as survivor) you are not able to get hindered under 9 seconds (without addons), but in reality it's going to be way longer.
even if you get it there is 13% difference, which is still less than 15% Clown has (just from Hindered). So even if it works out, values are lower and it's way more difficult (time consuming) to get it on survivors. Hindered for Skull merchant is way more difficult to get on survivors than Clown's bottle... Basically it's up to a survivor if you even manage it in whole chase.
without needing to aim anything, all while building bloodlust, with no downtime and no reload, which Clown can not.
She has bloodlust only if she got Drone there before, which is still time consuming, because she had to walk there.
And you can't really deny neither slow, or speed boost from Clown. You can deny it from Skull merchant with crouching / standing still next to pallet and as I said before, her slow is just way more time consuming for Skull merchant. In most chases I won't even get to it.
Hindered effect will always be an issue unless you want to make it really short too?
It doesn't stop your from vaulting a pallet, or window. If Hindered was an issue, wouldn't Clown be one of top tier killers? Well, he is not, because predropping pallets is simply very effective. It works exactly same against Skull merchant.
Right now, if you are healthy, you hold W, if you are injured, you can predrop pallets (stay in loop). If tag would actually Shock you, even if you are injured, your only option would be to hold W. Does that sound fun to you?
1.5 action block from a shock.
That's the issue. You have 3 seconds immunity when you get tagged. So if you make that shock value too low, it's basically useless. If it is high, it's way more oppresive than Hindered can ever be.
This means she isn't building bloodlust cause she is using her power
Are you sure it removes Bloodlust? I usually use it before hand on certain loops, so I actually don't know.
Her speed boost / Hindered are simply not that oppresive in my opinion. So I wouldn't change that.
What other issues are there supposed to be:
Too many status effects?
You can remove broken on Claw trap and replace with always Mending. Claw trap would always have some effect, so it wouldn't be confusing for new players and one less status effect.
Disarming drones?
You could make a trade and just make it disarm permanently, but display disarmed drone by aura better that it happened. So basically survivors can easily get rid of her drones, but Skull merchant gets the information and can recall it, which would be more in line with how Hag / Trapper works. If she wants to put be back, she needs to walk there and deploy it.
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@UndeddJester said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3619370#Comment_3619370
How is it exactly different from Clown?
The thing with Clown is he has limited bottles, his clouds last a limited time, and he has to be careful with placements to ensure he gets the 10% boost vs. the Survivors 15% Hindered. If he misthrows either he doesn't benefit, and can even help the survivor out by boosting them.
Skull Merchant doesn't have to worry about uptime or reloading, she doesn't have to be accurate with her placement, she gets her speed passively while still just zoning the survivor at the loop, while also getting the benefit able to see exactly where they are at all times. She even gets to build bloodlust while zoning, which Clown does not. Either the survivor doesn't leave, where they will eventually get the Hindered effect vs. her haste, which is pretty much a guaranteed down unless Skully horribly misplays, or they leave, which she has perfect knowledge on and either intercepts, or simply repeat at the next loop.
Clown can make mistakes at loops and be outplayed, it's tough, but it can happen. It is REALLY hard to mess up completely as Skull Merchant.
Thing is there is not really reason for it.
Do you know how fast is Blight? Spirit? Wraith? Perks on both sides?
You may have noticed I'm not especially trying to nerf Skull Merchant. I'm trying to remove her more annoying effects that makes everyone just shut down vs. her. This 5% boost when a Survivor is trapped is a buff, but importantly, it's consistent.
You're right, there won't be more than 2 scans most of the time, but the point here is to make the survivor being chased the decider for how much speed she gets. If someone gets scanned cross map, for the most part it shouldn't apply additonal pressure to the person she is currently chasing, because the person she is chasing is likely to pick up a scan too. If someone gets claw trapped cross map... they really screwed up, but they obviously become a juicier target for SM vs. A healthy survivor at a loop.
My point here is that trying to watch where Skull Merchant is and what she is doing for mind games, trying to watch where the drone is facing (especially in stealth mode), and trying to watch the HUD, and then trying to adjust for her speed at loops is a lot to ask of a survivor to process at any moment. A claw trapped survivor is something that is not hard to notice on the HUD, even in your periphery, and making it consistent, means survivors can adjust their timings and get a feel for playing vs. her.
Do you realize Shock would be way stronger? How the hell is that better for survivors?
Again, I'm not high elo, but in my experience against Doctor, you can anticipate a shock and throw a pallet early, or fake towards/take vaulting pallet/windows for mind games as the shock hits you. If you succeed at that mind game, you can make distance, but if you misplay it you get boned.
Vs. Hindered, just like Clown, even if you succed at the mind game, you still get Hindered, and they catch up, you're still in a dire situation because you can't make any distance, and again, unlike Clown, Skully doesn't ever have to slow and reload, she just bolts after you.
Do tell how a shock is so much stronger than Hindered? Cause I see the opposite in my games. A good Clown is harder to face at loops than a Doctor, that's why Doctor has additonal slowdown and screams in his kit via madness and static blast.
The thing with Clown is he has limited bottles, his clouds last a limited time, and he has to be careful with placements to ensure he gets the 10% boost vs. the Survivors 15% Hindered.
It doesn't really matter for specific chase tho, it's enough to get hit.
Clown is able to get hit on shack even if pallet is up, no need for big mind games.
So basically even tho her speed and hindered are weaker, it's supposed to bigger issue just because it's easier to use?
That seems balanced to me, it's not as difficult to use, so it is weaker...
you can anticipate a shock and throw a pallet early
But skull merchant wouldn't need to actually use the shock, right? I can just keep running around the loop, getting bloodlust, while you can't vault the pallet. If you vault, you get tagged and can't vault back.
This would be so annoying to deal with it.
Hindered doesn't stop you from vaulting. Predropping currently works quite well against Skull merchant, same as Clown. It wouldn't really work with shocking.
It would become way more oppressive for chased survivor.
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There is really not reason to nerf Bond over this in my opinion.
This is against game rules anyway, nothing to balance around.
Making it so Bond doesn't work in TR would be a massive nerf for that perk.
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If I wanted to talk, I would play SWF... This won't solve anything, quite the opposite.
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I just want my Ruin back...
I think 200% was fine, when it gets removed as soon someone dies.
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@UndeddJester said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3619206#Comment_3619206
I will admit, I do think she is more managable, but I'm low, maybe mid elo tops... I'm not sure how much is players not bothering to play, and how much is her being insane at anti-loop/me being bad.
She in my opinion is not quite hitting the levels of obnoxious that some would have us believe... however the 13%-17% speed swing is just insane in combination with everything else she gets. When I get it as Skull Merchant, it kinda feela bad, like I didn't earn my down. I'm a Pig player usually and rely on mind games for downs, the scans make those mind games pretty easy, as there is no chance of me completely misguessing while I have them on radar, so I wouldn't say she gets nothing without her haste. Especially as she has a 4.6m/s stealth speed, which is great for sneaking up on gens.
With that in mind removing Hindered is one option for chopping something out of her kit. The only issue I have with this is getting scanned while you have a claw trap should do 'something'. The shock suggestion from PixelBush was pretty cool... maybe sn add on for a 3% Hindered effect would be fine?
Another thing that erks me personally about her speed boost is it is never clear how much speed Skull Merchant has. It's something you can possibly learn, but unless youre paying close attention to the HUD in the middle of trying to deal with her at loops, it's really hard to know what speed she has. People getting scanned across the map can suddenly grant her a speed boosts that have nothing to do with the survivor she is actually chasing.
I'd prefer her speed be standardised in some way. Part of the suggestion for the TR option was to make it so the survivor she is actually chasing is the cause for her boost. Alternatively 3% for a scanned survivor and 5% for a clawtrapped survivor, and leave it at that at least let's you know where you stand, rather than it being somewhere between 3% and 7%... and it would help me keep track k as Skull Merchant a lot easier too, as even playing her sometimes I'm not sure.
So between the standardised speed and the shock instead of Hindered, I would think Skull Merchant would be quite reasonable.
it kinda feela bad, like I didn't earn my down.
why? It's her power, which is just movement speed bonus in most cases, and in longer chase possibly hindered. How is it exactly different from clown?
Clown can get 10 % Haste and give 15 % Hindered
Skull merchant usually has only 3%, max 5% speed boost and 10% Hindered.
Her values are way lower than Clown and you realy on survivors to use them, it can be denied for quite a long time.
So I really don't see her chase as an issue.
With Dredge on many loops there is nothing survivor can do to avoid downed/injured. (try Dredge on Hawkins, that's fun)
Knight? When I am just eating popcorn and watching my guard down survivor, who went to corner?
Artist? Basically same as Dredge.
Trickster? Good luck playing short loops.
My main problem is those so called "issues" are not unique to Skull merchant. You can easily find it on many other killers.
You worry about many status effects? Remove broken. I couldn't care less about it for my gameplay.
Skully is basically Jack of all trades, master of none.
how much speed Skull Merchant has
I mean, if she has more than 3%, someone screwed it. You can easily see on yourself if you got tagged or not, you start glowing red for a while. Other than that you can see if someone else has active claw trap. That covers most of it.
I'd prefer her speed be standardised in some way.
Thing is there is not really reason for it.
Do you know how fast is Blight? Spirit? Wraith? Perks on both sides?
With merchant, if you make some effort you can track it with HUD. It's already nerfed a lot compare to old version. You almost never get over 5%, not really hard to track in my opinion...
shock instead of Hindered
Shock like a Doctor?
Do you realize Shock would be way stronger? How the hell is that better for survivors?
If you make it on windows only or something, then it's kinda useless. If it works on pallets, or even just pallets only, it's way more annoying to deal with than Hindered.
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@UndeddJester said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3619137#Comment_3619137
Because, Skull Merchant's kit is overstacked. It's got too much in it. Skull Merchant has very punishing Anti-Loop, both at shutting down loops with a drone to force survivors to leave, as well as perfect information for when they do leave after they've been scanned a single time. She also has some degree of global slowdown, between broken and forcing survivors to slowly approach gens, hexes and/or hooks she protects, and even breaking her drones gives her information she can capitalise on. The video posted by @Skillfulstone explains it with very good argumentation.
The speed boost is an issue to my mind. She already has the power to shut down loops, she can get perfect knowledge on mind games, she can force you to stay or take a hit, and then to top it all off she can get a 13% speed swing between her Hindered effect and speed boost that just makes downs trivial.
I'm not claiming my idea is perfect, but I also don't believe "Just delete her" is at all reasonable or helpful. Some people actually like Skull Merchant and want her to be good and fun. The motivation for my suggestion is she needs to lose something from her kit. We could be boring and say "Just remove her speed boost", or we could be a little more creative and tie it to her 'excitement of seeing the terror in her victims' or something, hence attaching it to her TR, with some trade offs imposed accordingly vs. Her very power anti-loop.
It's not the only option. I've suggested elsewhere make her a 4.4 killer and give her a flat 3% boost when there is a scanned survivor, and a flat 5% when there is a claw trapped survivor, making her 4.4, 4.52 and 4.6 respectively. At 4.4m/s at least her near uncounterable anti loop and all her effects are somewhat justified cause she can be pre-run quite effectively.
If you have better suggestions I'm all ears, but I for one really want to break this "Skull Merchant sucks and there is no hope for her" mindset a lot of people have.
Switching the traps to always use scan lines was a great change. Her unavoidable AoE was dumb, but having to sneak past her traps to disarm or work under them was a solid change. She has the potential to be pretty good if people smarter than me would engage their minds in the conversation.
Maybe she is fine as is, if you want to argue that, then sure, I'll happily listen.
I mean, as I said before she already lost quite a lot of things and got worse on most others.
She is way more managable for survivors compare to old version.
I play her a lot and main issue is survivors still don't know how to play against her. Amount of times I managed to get claw trap on survivor outside of chase is just sad. That should never happen.
I really don't think killer should be nerfed just because survivors don't know how to play against it. We have seen it with Pig, several times...
The video posted by @Skillfulstone explains it with very good argumentation.
That is quite a lot of things missing / incorrect in that video. Those comparisons against other killers are made in a way it seems better than it is just to support the narrative.
It's definetly not true she doesn't have a counterplay. Seems kinda funny to say she doesn't have counterplay and then display Knight as an example with counterplay...
Even as chase merchant she is not better than old version. Only thing that improved is stealth, everything else about her is worse. That's why she is more managable.
She is completely useless without haste, she has nothing without it.
For all I care you can remove hindered and push it back to addon, but definetly not haste. It's already worse than it used to be.
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Your whole suggestion is definetly an overkill, but make it work only in chase seems interesting enough.
Thing is it's not perk I would like to see nerfed into oblivion. It's not that annoying for me unlike some other perks in past...
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@Skillfulstone said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3619116#Comment_3619116
The thing that improved is that, despite needing to move a bit more than her previous iteration, she can still do area-denial better than every other trap Killer in the game and at no real cost (every other trap Killer either has to manually replace/move their traps or the Survivors can disable them permanently in some fashion) Skull Merchant has the equivalent of the Trapper's Iri Stone add-on but basekit since her drones will repair themselves after a while even if Survivors take the time to disable them without needing any imput from her. And she can recall and replace disabled drones mid-chase. She got more drones than before and said drones can slightly overlap each other (making guarding exit gates disgustingly easy if close enough, especially on Midwich)
Guarding gens directly is superfluous when you can simply keep every strong loop around the gens impossible to use, every time Survivors leave a gen they will get a stack by going to a strong loop, if they avoid the loop then they will likely be either in a deadzone for an easy hit or will have to quickly use a pallet.
Skull Merchant isn't, and never was, a Killer that gets a 4k at 5 gens. Forcing Survivors to overuse resources early and taking unavoidable damage, especially if the Survivors 3-gen themselves, basically gives free victories if the Survivors aren't equipped with gen-destroying perks and items.
Quite frankly, all she would need to be a tad more bearable (though still annoying due to area-denial in general being annoying to varying extent) is to make it so drones that are disabled cannot be recalled until they repair themselves and to make Hindered/Haste add-on dependant rather than basekit.
Side-note: I'm not sure if it was doable pre-rework but it's sometimes possible to put a drone in the middle of the basement stairs and put another at the top of the stairs. This works especially well on Ironworks of Misery where if a Survivor is put in basement in main it's basically impossible to get them. Happened to me a couple times and it's pretty annoying seeing my teammates just giving up and slamming gens, there's no other choice really since interacting with the drones in any way will bring the Killer right back and running out will net me 2 stacks, speeding her up.
Also you said "just because some small youtuber made a video about it" which implies that notoriety is a factor in validity of opinion and experience.
The thing that improved is that, despite needing to move a bit more than her previous iteration, she can still do area-denial better than every other trap Killer
That didn't improve, she used to be way better at this. You can ignore her drones unless you are in chase with her.
every other trap Killer either has to manually replace/move their traps or the Survivors can disable them permanently
and what are you comparing with? Freddy and Trapper, the one of worst killers in dbd?
Hag? one of least played killers?
Doesn't seem like something to balance around to me... Actual effect of their traps is better than her drone trigger anyway, except freddy, but he is just bad.
especially if the Survivors 3-gen themselves
well, they deserve to lose for that...
it so drones that are disabled cannot be recalled until they repair themselves and to make Hindered/Haste add-on dependant rather than basekit.
so make her useless, nice... Everyone loves to play killers who are valid only using addons, right?
Without hindered you can completely ignore her drones when you are injured.
Without haste she is completely useless as a killer.
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@UndeddJester said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3619073#Comment_3619073
That's precisely the point, setting up a drone at loops isn't free, you lose your speed buff 🙃
Why exactly should it cost anything? It's her power...
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@Skillfulstone said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3619082#Comment_3619082
While her add-ons aren't "good" in the sense that they turn her from F-tier to A-tier, she has everything in her add-ons. She has add-ons that gives her claw traps pocket Huntress's Lullaby, pocket Sloppy Butcher, inflicts Oblivious, increased Hindered on Survivor and increased Haste on herself etc.
Her add-ons aren't game-breaking like Blight's or Myers's but some of them are downright bootleg versions of perks by themselves and give her an absurd amount of versatility for the low effort it requires.
Whenever I have to play Dull Merchant (due to daily challenges or customs) I don't have to mindgame or really do anything in chase since even god loops like the infamous GoJ house, Saloon or RPD main Hall (those stairs are annoying for M1 Killers if the Survivor has a decent head-start but the drones invalidate the whole thing) are easily circumvented. All I have to do is press M2 once or twice and the Survivor will eventually be hindered, broken and deep-wounded (and that's without add-ons, not that they are needed) while I get faster which makes the speed gap even wider if they don't immediately leave the loop.
The hardest Skull Merchant games I had were against SWAT teams that always Sprint-Burst away early to use her only flaw: If she can't start a chase then it's tough to win them. And even then I never got anything less than a 2k (and that's because I'm not going for the 4k if someone DCs/dies on first hook, it's just meaningless and demoralizing for everyone involved, bots will die though for the sake of bp but otherwise nobody's going past 2nd hook).
The Survivor can't even hope that I run out of drones mid-chase because I can recall drones from across the map, even if they are disabled, without losing speed and re-use those drones in the current chase. The only possible move to waste as much time as possible is to pre-drop and leave loops as soon as the drone is dropped, they'll still go down eventually and likely either waste a bunch of pallets or accidentally draw the Killer to their teammates but there is no real counterplay outside of holding W.
Furthermore, the drone can be used to make flashlight saves/Decisive Strike almost meaningless. After downing a Survivor and if a wall isn't nearby, just walk a couple steps away, drop a drone so when you pick up you are in the zone but not under the drone. If the Survivor somehow wiggles off they instantly gets scanned (maybe alongside the potential rescuer if they had to get too close) which makes the Killer faster and the recovery almost meaningless unless a god window or pallet was right there.
The only "good" thing about her right now is that she is one of the few Killers that makes people not want to get chased like the old days when most people didn't know how to loop. Most SM games I play, on either side, are among the slowest since Survivors don't want to take risks and are utterly focused on avoiding a potential 3-gen.
Side-note: the fact that your argument for the video's validity is that the Youtuber is "small" isn't exactly reassuring. Otz's word isn't law and stats speaks for themselves: Skull Merchant has the highest killrate in the game despite some Killers having a far higher maximum potential (Nurse, Blight) because she requires almost zero learning curve to use outside of common sense.
Most of her addons are connected to her claw trap. Getting claw trap on survivors is way harder than used to, you will usually get claw trap only on chased survivor, who lose it when gets downed, so they get little to no value. Most of her addons are trash.
Otz's word isn't law
When did I mention Otz? I just said video doesn't make it true.
All comparisons in video are made in quite pathetic way to display authors narrative.
stats speaks for themselves
Well, not hard to get high kill rate when survivors give up every other game. They just hate skull merchant in general, doesn't matter what you do it her unless you delete her or make her unplayable.
Current Skull merchant is way more managable compare it old version, even for soloQ.
- haste is worse (harder to get on more than 1 stack)
- information is worse (you get info on survivors mostly in chase only)
- pallet breaking gone
- exposed was just replaced with broken -> worse
- totem defense is gone
- 3-gen holding is mostly gone
- drones working on multiple floors gone
- addons are definetly worse
What exactly improved on her that she is such a big issue? Hindered that takes 12 seconds and survivor needs to stand in a loop?
Only thing that improved is stealth, but it's simply easier to use, not that much better.
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@RFSa09 said:
you can say that to literally every survivor perk, survivors doesn´t need to do anything to use most of their perks, to use dead hard you need to lose a chase, to use unbreakable you need to lose a chase, to use DS you need to lose a chase, deliverance, etc etc etc etc, noed is a hex perk, hex perks need to be super strong/ overpowered because survivors can literally remove it from the game in 12 seconds
I remember when NOED was actually meta, along with ruin and survivors actually had to use totem hunting perks...
Hex perks are mostly joke right now.
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@Skillfulstone said:
I'll just leave this here....
https://youtu.be/vOliDIQxQlE?si=CwdpCXEEAoCL2MNA
Dull Merchant is still an issue, the crux of the problem has just shifted a bit. This guy breaks it down in detail.
Doesn't make it true, just because some small youtuber made a video about it...
He ignored quite a lot of things and also incorrect about others. Saying she has good addons made me laugh...
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@DrDucky said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3615321#Comment_3615321
How can the funny 3 gen drone no skill killer not be hated? I get maybe 2 people like her but I am not convinced that ere are "Many" people who enjoy her.
I am currenty Prestige 32 and want to get to 100 unless BHVR listens to crying survivors, again...
She is good for players who enjoy basic M1 killers imo and I really like her skins.
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@UndeddJester said:
Still see potential in her myself.
Her kit is overloaded atm, but the change to the sweeping drones was a great improvement. Avoiding the beams MGS style while going for saves or moving to gens/looking for totems is the fun part of her kit. However getting shut down at loops is not.
I'd personally:
- Remove the Hindered effect from getting scanned while claw trapped.
- Remove the scaling scanned survivors speed.
- Make her a flat 4% faster when a scanned survivor is in her terror radius.
- Make her a flat 4% faster when a claw trapped survivor in in her terror radius. (Claw traps last longer).
- Getting scanned while claw trapped zaps the survivor, preventing them from vaulting or dropping pallets.
This makes it so that her setting up a drone will make her undetectable, and cause her to lose her speed boost from having a scanned survivor in her TR, meaning closing down a loop by setting up a drone doesn't come for free and can be outplayed.
It ensures every player understands what speed of Skully they are dealing with at any time, and ensures those speeds booats are related to teh lamyer being currently chased, not a rando who stepped ina trap on tbe other aide of the map. (its even hard for Skull Merchant herself to keep tabs on how fast she is going sometimes currently).
Between the broken, deep wound and the fact survivors positions can be easily tracked by Skull Merchant, she can decide who to pursue, and will have a speed boost while engaging on that target. Closing down a loop and using the rotate option at the right time to get the zap and help her score her hit will grant her skill expression.
With these changes a lot of the things like her drones coming back online instead of being disabled, her fast recall, etc, etc all are in a fair spot.
It also keeps the parts of Skull Merchant that are fun to play in tact, so people who do like her, don't lose their killer.
Undetectable killer with power around TR, genious...
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Drones causing damage should be removed from base kit
She would just be worse Clown...
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Then what general killer perks are worth running in your opinion?
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I find it problematic only on fast killers, where they can just force it to trigger on everyone.
I would just make it disable few seconds after first scream, but that's about it.
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No, I never want to see survivor character meta.
It's bad enough sounds and models are not same.
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@RavenBirb said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3590764#Comment_3590764
separate team means nothing, its the same game. You're fine with mobile getting more to it then the OG PC? hello?????????
It's the same game, but it's not same code... That's a massive difference for development.
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You don't want to punish SWF, rather help soloQ....
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@Coffeecrashing said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3611377#Comment_3611377
None of those are quality of life improvements. People don't say "killer feels better to play, because pallet breaking is slightly faster".
And that's the biggest problem. The survivor experience is very important to BHVR, and BHVR is always looking for ways to improve the survivor experience..... but the killer experience is not important, and BHVR would rather give killers generic number buffs, that move the kill rate, but don't actually improve the killer experience.
Yes, you can do quality of life improvements for killers. Like removing the forced short m1 attack bug, that can steal hits from the killer.
You think faster recovery for everything is not QoL, but fixing bugs is QoL?
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10/10 picture
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It's really good with Bond to see survivor in chase, it makes going for protection hits way easier.
There is absolutely no reason to nerf it, just because some survivors are useless. That's player issue, not perk.
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You can just change spawning system, so it never happens each survivor spawns on different gen. That's situation where most killers are going to lose.
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@[Deleted User] said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3611387#Comment_3611387
Why do people do this? When someone has a issue with something someone always has to come in and basically say they the person most likely deserves it.
I didn't say most likely, there are definetly SWF that do it just so their friend gets hatch.
I said specific situation, where I get it. I really hate those hiding useless players, even bot is better.
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Well, you are more motivated to find hatch...
I don't see this as big deal, you will still have situations where you are at killer's mercy.
You don't even need specific killer, you are not going to leave against No way out, or Whispers.
You can look at it this way, the harder you are going to make gate escape for killers, the more killers are going to slug for 4k.
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Well, I can't blame them, if that survivor is Urban Evasion player, doing nothing whole game and just waiting for hatch with key...