VomitMommy
VomitMommy
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@Caiman said:
I'd rather keep the Hindered and remove the Haste.
Haste is way better for her than Hindered. It just feels better to play her for sure. Hindered is last resort you often don't even reach in chase.
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@xEa said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3636930#Comment_3636930
Not really. Is it the survivors fault that the killer is stronger then them? Wouldn't it be more logical that MMR is simply bad or killer powers are overtuned?
Well, when they lose, they will get weaker killers. When they escape, they get better killers. It's not really difficult concept to understand.
It's funny to see players tryharding as much as they can and then are suprised other side does same.
What killer power is overtuned in your opinion? That will be fun topic for sure.
I personally don't like MMR, ranks were good enough in my opinion.
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@NoImportaLaVerdad said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3636738#Comment_3636738
Indeed, the small difference in Haste isn't what's keeping her winrate high; but against less experience survivors, she has too many weird mechanics that they don't understand and everything adds up. I want to find possible solutions to those, so BHVR doesn't need to nerf her "raw" strengths for higher MMR matches.
- "most survivors still don't know how to play against her and get Claw Traps even outside of chase, which should never happen"
I think this is something that BHVR has also noticed, which is why they are adding the lighter beams when survivors can't be detected in the next patch.
After reading that in the Patch Notes, I kept wondering what other problems less experienced survivors have when going against her and I found 2 possible problems:
- When does she have Haste and how much Haste does she have?
- When can I hide from her after being detected by a drone?
The first one is what I wanted to talk in this thread: "Is there any way to make it clear how much Haste she has so Survivors can understand why they went down against her?"
The second one, which probably only affects low MMR survivors and new players, is something I thought after I saw a streamer trying to hide from her around 8~ seconds after being detected by one of her drones. BHVR could add back the "Eye" on top of survivors when they are detected (from her first PTB):
Well, my issue is this is really holding hands of survivors, but sure, this is not really going to affect how she feels to play, just easier for survivors. I don't really care about that much. Better than nerfing her basekit to make her feel weak/clumsy for sure.
I have seen also complains about too many status effects. For me at least, they can remove broken and just make it always mending when survivors get claw trap. Basically effect will be always same and it can't be that confusing for new players at that point.
I really don't want them to remove haste, it's bad enough it got basically nerfed. That's what makes her feel good to play. Currently she is stealth Clown with worse chase. Only reason I play her over Clown, is because she is way better looking with better skins for me...
But complaining about her haste/hindered is just funny to me, when it is kinda Clown version from Wish... just his Hindered is stronger then her haste and Hindered combined....
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@xEa said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3630979#Comment_3630979
So on the one hand killers want short chase time and on the other they suggest to survive longer in a chase to counter tunnel. What shall it be chief?
Result of chase should be based on skill of players. If you get downed under 30 seconds against M1 killer, you should improve your skill, not ask for survivor buffs.
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So survivors will just predrop every pallet on the map without any thought about it and it is going to work... That would be first killer, where you should predrop even while you are not even chased.
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@Foempticol said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3636788#Comment_3636788
No you're wrong. hanging on a hook not being able to do anything at all is boring
How exactly is that connected to DC?
If you consider being on hook an issue, this game is not for you. It's simply part of the game.
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@Crowman said:
So you want killers to be able to d/c out against unfavorable maps and survivors to d/c when they are the first found and make the game rather unplayable.
I guess some players want to have a Lobby simulator.
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@Foempticol said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3636766#Comment_3636766
DC penalty is useless, It just makes people move on to other games
Playing against bots is not going to make people move on to other games?
Don't know about you, but playing with / against bots is just boring.
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@NoImportaLaVerdad said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3636437#Comment_3636437
To be honest, the eye glow idea might be a hard idea to implement because she has Cosmetics Options that cover her eyes entirely. But I wanted to kept the example in so it's easier to imagine it!
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3636583#Comment_3636583
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3636681#Comment_3636681
The problem is whenever someone else besides you gets tagged, but they don't reach 3 stacks of "Lock On" to receive a Claw Trap. While looping you need to ask yourself: Does she still have 5% Haste, which means I need to predrop this pallet, or is she at 3%, allowing me to make another loop?
And don't misunderstand me, I enjoy playing as her and I don't want to see her nerfed too harshly. But if her counterplay is hard to identify, her winrate will keep going up and she'll receive harsher nerfs.
her winrate will keep going up and she'll receive harsher nerfs
I really don't think her winrate is from 3/5% haste. That is what makes her more fun to play for sure, but that won't give her high kill rates. Otherwise Clown would be most broken killer in DBD.
There are three issues leading to her kill rate:
- survivors still hate her and give up often
- her stealth is basically noob stomper
- most survivors still don't know how to play against her and get Claw Traps even outside of chase, which should never happen
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@ratcoffee said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3636581#Comment_3636581
how do you mean?
...do you think when I said "you choose the killers you are willing to play" I meant "...willing to play against"?
No, I meant "you choose a list of killers you're willing to play AS, if you get randomly assigned the role of killer."
Oh, ok. My bad then.
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I don't really mind playing soloQ. UI icons improved soloQ for me a lot.
Difference is I just have different expectations. Don't expect 4 escapes, or regular escape (for you) as soloQ, if you want that, go play SWF. Easy as that.
I am not going to play Freddy/Pig, if I want to 4k every game too... That's just not how this works.
As SoloQ, all I want is a good chase and maybe get 1-2 survivors to escape, that's a soloQ win for me.
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You could make small animation changes like Myers have. That wouldn't really affect her and survivors would need to give it some effort to understand it.
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It's not really difficult to track it...
You can clearly see whenever you got tagged. You glow red for a while, that's 3% haste.
If someone has claw trap active, it's another stack. In most games, she won't get over 2 stacks, which is 5% speed bonus. If she gets above this, your teammates are bad and you will lose that game.
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That's basically ban killer system with extra steps... if I get it right
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If your issue is last 1v1, then it's not unique to those perk. Just Whispers is going to do same thing.
If 3/4 survivors are alive and you lost against No way out, Remember me, you probably simply didn't touch the gates and tried to go for save first etc. and that's just missplay on your end.
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I wouldn't mind that vault speed, but definetly not looking aspect. That was really annoying.
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Good way how to make soloQ even worse... One troll could suddenly impact your game way more.
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So let's have bets, what will get nerfed first FTP + Buckle up, or Grim embrace + DMS?
I bet on Grim Embrace.
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It's really boring to play against bots... They predictable, you can't mind game many loops, you can't go stealth.
Btw if you remove DC penalty from survivors, you would have to do it against killers too... Enjoy your lobby simulator :D
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@MikaelaWantsYourBoon said:
I hope people punish them with bad sell numbers, so maybe they will finally listen us. If you are not gonna change anything, what's the point of PTBs?
Sadly I would go crazy if I was missing one survivor, when I own everything else. So I know it's trash, I will never play him, but I am collector...
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It would be nice to prepare small tutorials for each killer, how to play against them.
Some killers get way easier when you understand how they work.
Currently only option is to watch videos on youtube from people like Otz.
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It's funny they are worried about tunneling, while this change basically force you to tunnel, because if you let that survivor recover, most of their condemn is just gone...
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@Nathan13 said:
I think part of why we see more survivor nerfs is that we used to get so many killers nerfs patch after patch after patch.
And I think after those nerfs BHVR shifted towards the survivor side because they saw how low the kill rates were so they needed to try to give the game some more balance for both ends. Which is hard to do in this game but every update is an effort.
Kill rates were never that low, even when there were really broken things on both sides in past. Except for Nurse it was always above 50%.
Bigger issue were queue times for survivors.
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Wait for 3-gen system to go live, it will get worse.
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Well, For the people + buckle up went live. So killers can have fun with Grim embrace now...
New 3-gen system is going to force gen blocking meta, so have fun about that.
It's really funny to say it is not supposed to affect general gameplay, when just it's existence will force different slowdown meta perks.
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Dredge can be really fun, if you want to learn him, check videos from this guy:
https://youtu.be/88Pd41pi8bYSome maps will be really frustration with lack of good locker spawns. I really hate RPD with him.
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It's funny how many times I see survivors getting tagged while not in chase. I really don't think she is that difficult to play against.
- While healthy, hold W. Even monkey can do it...
- While injured, play her like a Clown (weaker version), also not hard
- You can crouch to ignore drone's lasers
People just hate her from 3-gen era and refuse to learn how to play against her, rather just give up.
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@Lixadonna said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3633723#Comment_3633723
The difference in that is Survivor hasn't been given what they asked. Devs gave Killers the Perk nerfs they been asking for. Only a matter of time until Devs handhold further and nerf Windows of Opportunity.
Deathslinger: nerfed.
Spirit: nerfed
Spirit addons: nerfed
Nurse: nerfed
Nurse addons: nerfed
Kick gen meta: nerfed
3-gen: soon to be nerfed
face-camping: nerfed
Skull merchant: nerfed
Sloppy butcher and UW nerfs are coming this year.
You were saying?
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@Paternalpark said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3633723#Comment_3633723
Didn't killers just get basekit shadowborn?
Most players are not going to use it, that's really not BT level. This is optional feature, not basekit change that would affect games in major way.
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@Chaosrider said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3633492#Comment_3633492
So you do understand that the timer paused, while a survivors i carrierd and it pauses while a survivor down near the hook? ITs just an abuse of this system possible, and ive seen enough killer doing that. Its not a matter of survivor screwing up.
It should pass. Otherwise it wouldn't be possible to get more than one survivor into basement.
Plot Twist would become lose lose situation for killer.
Those situations are simply something survivors should have hard time recovering from.
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Game about killing and people want to be treated like in kinder garden...
Just turn off chat if you can't handle it.
I would rather see option to turn off profanity filter. It's just pathetic.
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@Chaosrider said:
Thats the fun thing,.killers could just abuse this mechnaic by dropping a second survivor at the hook. Free kill.
if killer has two downs next to eachother, survivors screwed it massively. Why would you try to loop around hooked survivor? It's kinda funny to try blame killer / system, where survivor clearly screwed it.
You can also crawl away... just saying
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@Chaosrider said:
@Raconteurminator @pigslittlepet But its fine to have free hooks or trading into slug and tunnel? Killer double standards as always.
Bhvr never even tried to fix anything related to killer strategies
Are you serious? Do you play on Internet explorer or something?
Bt didnt fix tunneling. Anti face camp didnt fix camping. Anti 3 gens doesnt fix 3 gens. You see how this works.
You should learn meaning of word "try".
Face camping is not removed?
BT didn't help survivors at all? Free perk is not valid now?
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@kit_mason said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3631904#Comment_3631904
It'd have to give more BP than winning the game, and that's ignoring that BP matters less and less as hours go on and players enter the upper end of MMR where tunnelling is at its most potent.
Well, it worked in past, don't really see why it shouldn't do it now...
People who want to tunnel for ego boost will do it no matter what you do about it. But lot of players, including me, are really greedy. Getting 4 stacks on BBQ was basically alternative win condition we had. I couldn't care less someone got out as long I managed to hook everyone.
Right now, how many survivors escaped is all you have as a result. That's not really good thing in my opinion.
It'd have to give more BP than winning the game
Have you played with old BBQ? 100% bonus BP will easily get you more BP than just tunneled 4k. Even losing game as killer you often have around 20k, it's really not hard.
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@AssortedSorting said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3632315#Comment_3632315
Don't the majority of people turn to tunneling when they feel like they're losing? Isn't your solution trying to make losing via hook spreading feel like winning through adjacent rewards? Why sidestep the root issue?
make losing via hook spreading feel like winning
I have felt like winning whenever I got 4 stacks of BBQ...
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@Sewinahs said:
Basekit 2% haste stack (max 4) every first hook, if someone die u can't get more stacks (but u won't lose what you have). When all survivors have at least one hook the next time one survivor is hooked the gen with more progress lose 15% total progress (max 4), if someone die u can't use the stacks anymore.
When a survivor has 2 hook stage the next time he is unhooked he gets a 60sec effect (conspicuous actions remove it), if he dies all survivors gen speed, heal speed, gate speed, unhook speed etc. increase 15% (max 2). This effect won't activate after the first hook stage so survivors won't use it to aggro bodyblocks etc, 60sec effect because u can still bodyblock with off the record and ds. Doesn't work in end game.
That is beyond broken...
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@mikewelk said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3632309#Comment_3632309
I thought they were talking about bringing it back to those specific perks... Thanks for the heads up.
No, just let everyone have system that rewards by % based on their actions.
Making killers spreading hooks and survivors being more altruistic seems both good for the game in my opinion.
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@AssortedSorting said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3632275#Comment_3632275
Excluding a competitive reason?
You can't fix that. If you want to fix tunneling, you can focus only on majority of people.
Unless you want to nerf the hell out of it, so noone can even do it. That would fix it for competitive killers, because they will not be able to do it. It's going to piss off most killers in dbd tho.
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@AssortedSorting said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3632248#Comment_3632248
So you're saying that tunneling is in a fine state because most people have empathy and will willingly go out of their way to make the experience of other players better at their own expense?
not really, I think that should be reason to hook multiple survivors even for people without empathy.
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@mikewelk said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3631920#Comment_3631920
Fair doesn't really work when we are choosing two perks, out of so many, to get a BP bonus whilst others don't... It's only going to lead to future agruments about x perk needing it or y perk. With the BP incentives for different roles, the BP gains would be huge and I don't think BHVR would like it even if it's for a good cause like this.
I didn't mean perk basekit, just those % BP bonus system from those two perks.
So killers are more likely to go for different survivors and survivors are more altruistic.
You could lower maximum BP category back to 8k, so average BP gain is not that higher...
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@AssortedSorting said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3631921#Comment_3631921
Why do you think strong Perks/Killers are excluded from tunneling?
People who wants to ego boost will use strongest perks/killers and tunnel. You can't fix it. That's like people who gives up whenever something go wrong. You just can't fix those. Those are often same category tho.
It's different for majority of players in my opinion, most people will not go for tunneling / camping as main strategy. If I use multiple slowdown perks, it simply gives me time to hook multiple survivors, before I am "forced" to get someone out of the game.
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@AssortedSorting said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3631914#Comment_3631914
I mean. You downed them. If it was quick you've got your answer. If it wasn't you might feel like you're losing already and need to tunnel. And if you're wholly outmatched you likely will not be able to get that "carrot" for not tunneling, since it's less effective.
It's unlikely all survivors are that good. It can happen of course, but it's rare.
Usually there is a weak link that can cost game for everyone, you just need to find him.
Or play in a way you don't need to tunnel from start and have good chance to win. High tier killers, or perks can carry you through it.
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@mikewelk said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3631909#Comment_3631909
Many killers tunnel at five generators from my experience. Since Chucky was added, it's felt like it's been non-stop. It's why I took a break because the gameplay was so stale. What you explained is definitely correct, but it's not like everyone ran it at the time, mostly Billy players. With how popular anti-aura builds are currently (especially Distortion), I fear a change like that would only promote more anti-aura builds and this would make the perk obsolete and just a extra BP perk.
We're Gonna Live Forever is also not going to affect much.
We're Gonna Live Forever is also not going to affect much.
That's just so it's fair and both sides have this system.
You see way more tunneling then you used to, or I remember it wrong... Issue is most other strategies got worse, while tunneling didn't. I believe BBQ helped a lot against early tunneling, at least for me it definetly did.
Also because of many Adrenalin players, killers simply don't want to get into end game, because it's really hard to recover from it and it's going to get even worse next patch.
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@AssortedSorting said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3631910#Comment_3631910
Why not do it earlier than that?
I'm not a great player, and because of that I'm in lobbies where I get A LOT of other players that make mistakes that I could easily capitalize off of early. (still kinda feels scummy though and I've had to force myself to start doing it so I can get into higher MMR).
Well, there needs to be reason to not do it as first thing.
Before it used to be BBQ. That was basically first thing many killers wanted to do, then was tunneling time if gens were low.
Well, if you play smart you will try to hook more than one survivors just to see who will be easiest to tunnel. Tunneling first survivor you see is just gampling. You hope they are not too good, if they are not, then you win.
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@AssortedSorting said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3631901#Comment_3631901
Or tunneling when you have the opportunity to?
It can be pretty easy to tunnel, even accidentally (usually with undetectable Killers)
Or tunneling when you have the opportunity to
I consider tunneling an issue only when killer goes into the game with this as main plan and tunnel at 5 gens.
I don't really care when killer does it later (1-2 gens left). It's understandable for me. They still want to win and there is not many options at that point how to do it.
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@mikewelk said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3631904#Comment_3631904
Such a shame they removed the BP effects. I think that it won't make a noticeable change however since tunneling was still rather prominent at the time those bonuses existed. Killers won't really use BBQ if tunneling is working out so well and feels necessary sometimes. We're Gonna Live Forever isn't too useful for solo queue when survivors can't call out if they're getting slugged or not. Haven't seen the perk in ages, not even amongst SWFs.
I feel like it's too much of a complicated issue, due to how it intertwines with both roles, to just be solved by perk adjustments. I'm not holding my breath for the Decisive Srike rework either, kind of lost hope already.
People who want to tunnel from start are not going to use it, you won't fix it.
But many players go for tunneling when they feel pressured, not from start. Getting 4 stacks of BBQ was basically main priority for many players, from what I remember there was way less tunneling during BBQ/pop/ruin. Pop and Ruin forced you to leave hooked survivors to be effective unless gen was right next to it... and BBQ made killers greedy and rather threw game just to get it.
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Give BP effect of BBQ and WGLF basekit. That would help and probably make both sides happy.
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@mikewelk said:
I use medkits to heal myself only. Feels like a waste with how slow it takes to heal up another survivor even with the rarest one.
I use it on others quite often... It's good when they are dead on hook and you just need to recover fast.
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@AssortedSorting said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3631892#Comment_3631892
Everything you listed
apart from campingcan be used in conjunction with tunneling.Nerfing them doesn't address the core issue. Trying to get a singular survivor out of the Trial as fast as you can fundamentally gives you more breathing room. No Perks, no addons needed.
And nerfing camping (which was a good move) just makes tunneling more desirable.
conjunction with tunneling
It's more like you go for tunneling, when it doesn't work for you.
3-gen nerf is going to increase tunneling quite a lot imo.
Basically before you had chance to defend your gens and make a comeback from it, it's less likely with this feature, so getting someone out of the game is just way better and easier.