Valik
Valik
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All they'd have to do to prevent this is to create a very gentle, gradual 'bump' for the pig that gently pushes her away from the front of the box while stationary - perhaps it could grow stronger with time so that if she tries to body block for an extended period, it may become virtually impossible for her to draw nearer - like an invisible wall.
If a pig remains in front of the box for more than 5 seconds, invisible telemetry specific to the killer radiates forward and out slowly.
To the killer, it looks like their character is gently walking forward without the ability to turn back. The telemetry slowly retreats while the killer is away, but can create an invisible wall of immunity around the boxes in time. Letting survivors interact with boxes without worry - but only if the pig insists upon body blocking the box for an extended period of time.
~
Or the Entity can simply block the box (Like a gen) if a pig stays in front of it for too long. Any player that searched the other boxes will have their trap instantly removed.
Where's my paycheck
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@FlameGNG said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2857832#Comment_2857832
that wasnt the question, and honestly i bought mikeala for CoH which i dont even use cuz i feel like a dick running it to rebalance that perk you would have to make it worse than self care (my opinion) i dont think one player should be able to bring a better selfcare for the whole team
I see what you mean. There are plenty of perks that are so abusable and cruel that they are unfun to bring.
NOED isn't, by merit, completely broken. It is, however, very unfun for survivors - which is why I avoid taking it wherever possible.
In light of that, I'd have to agree that I'd disappear CoH as well!
IMO - all they need to do to balance it is to make it pre-nerf powerful and just nerf the hell out of boon totems themselves. By simply making the totem shatter when snuffed - perhaps giving the perk a 1 time use on blessing, bless the first totem you cleanse - then it would be a lot more balanced. Like Hex totems it would be strong, but also a gamble. The audio would have to be reduced, but if the killer finds it - you're playing the match with 14 seconds of cleansing wasted and a dead perk slot. Far more balanced than the infinite heal-party that we have now.
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@Seiko300 said:
It's not that they're impossible, with enough persistence you can get them done (I've completed every single adept for all killers and survivors) and since you can choose whatever add-ons you want plus which map you want to go to that certainly helps.
But some perks don't have synergy (or even worse have anti-synergy) with the killer they come with, or just flat-out aren't good on their own as individual perks- they're made to be the foil for other perks and act in tandem. IE Monitor & Abuse has anti-synergy with doctor, Furtive Chase doesn't synergize with Ghostface, and so on and so forth. For Freddy's adept you're basically running 0 perks because none of them are active at the very beginning, two of them work at the very, very, end and only one of them is actually "used" throughout the match but the action speed bonus becomes less useful the later the match because there are less resources to use the action speed bonus on. So it's just not a fun adept to do, you've really got to know what you can do as Freddy in order to double pip with zero perks.
That's not something we can control though, teachables will be teachables, and can't really fault or change that.
My real issue comes from the discrepancy between Survivor and Killer adepts, simply put: survivor adepts are just way easier to do. I don't think I'm breaking any new ground with this comment, but it really just doesn't make sense to me to have a more difficult achievement on the more difficult role. It's like they're really trying to tell players that survivor is supposed to be easier or something, which is slightly different from whether it is or isn't- that conveys intentionality. I know that's probably not the case where they say that outright but just off the achievements alone it's so heavily implied you can't exactly ignore it.
It is the worst feeling when you're doing an adept like Freddy's and you're one tick off from getting a double pip and you need to go through all that mess again. As far as achievements go the adepts for killers can be particularly unforgiving in this regard, you either got it or you didn't and there's no leeway between, whereas there seems to be plenty of leeway for the survivor adepts.
The adept achievements also suffer from blurry and ill-defined win conditions as well, almost 6 years later and we still talk about "what counts as a win?" today. In this regard the adept achievements indicate a double standard, the "win-condition" for a survivor is simply to escape, while the win condition for killers is to get a double pip.
To put it into words: it is the double standard which is frustrating. If adepts are not meant to be easy to achieve across the board, that's fine, but you need to actually follow through with that ideology. That means either making the survivor adept more difficult, or if that idea isn't the case at all, then it's time to make the killer adept more in-line with how difficult the survivor adept is.
An indirect way they could make adepts easier is if they reworked or buffed all of these garbage perks.
Imagine if Remember Me, and Fire Up were actually top-notch perks that were worth bringing even without the Adept challenge. It would make it all so much easier.
David King is by far the hardest survivor to get an adept on with No Mither - not saying much, but it's just the most blatant example of a core perk being worse than a burden to play with, and having extreme anti-synergy with other perks.
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@jesterkind said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2857350#Comment_2857350
I can shed some light on why it hasn't gone through- getting achievement conditions changed without the achievement in question being literally impossible is, apparently, really hard in a manner that requires going through third party channels, so it makes sense they try not to do it if they can possibly avoid it.
It's why that one achievement for repairing the last generator and escaping as the final survivor is still the way it is despite being dramatically harder now than when it was introduced- you can still do it, literally speaking, so getting it changed would be a gigantic hassle.
That's my understanding, anyway, I may be wrong about that but I remember hearing it a little while ago.
That actually does make sense and clears up a lot, thanks!
Hopefully, maybe they could make the conditions change for the 'merciless' title to match kills instead of pips to circumvent this and make it much more sensible.
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All these Meg fans don't know what they're talking about.
Borrowed Time and Unbreakable are two of the strongest and most valuable meta perks in the game.
David King comes in a close second for Dead Hard as a prime meta perk - and We're Gonna Live Forever is nice for the extra BP.
Dwight is super strong with Leader and Prove Thyself turning the game into a much more fast paced Trial by causing much greater pressure and momentum against the killer during teamwork.
Feng's Lithe and Engineer perks are fantastic, especially for newer players.
Nea is especially noob friendly with Balanced Landing acting as an easy out on most maps - and Urban Evasion is extremely good for noobs who are not proficient with stealth.
Jake Park has Iron Will, one of the best perks in the game inside and outside of chase.
Meg has Sprint Burst - which is alright, although tricky for noobs and has questionable reliability at higher ranks. And she has Adrenaline - which is very powerful, but again - its a dead perk until end game, which may not contribute any value to your trial in any way.
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I think my Dead Hard brothers are failing to see the big picture.
Dead Hard gives an invisible health state to survivors when used correctly. By baiting out a swing, or making it to a loop - you rob the killer of a down and continue on. It's 1 free health state IF used correctly.
Circle of healing can give an infinite number of heals and make healing allies nearly twice as fast. God forbid they have health kits too. I've had an entire 4 man team of survivors wounded only for 3 of them to get healed within 15 seconds of them all taking protection hits for a hook.
The worst part is that there's no repercussion. There is no cooldown, there is no limit, the totems don't even break when snuffed.
Chases can last about 32 seconds or so, if the survivor takes 16 seconds to hit. It takes survivors 16 seconds to be healed by a team, or 32 to self heal with Self Care. Health states need time and resources - it's 16 seconds to be healed by a teammate, and the only time you can heal yourself without finite resources is with a perk. The time of each survivor used to heal is 16 seconds - which means the cost for a health state for survivors should be 32 seconds time and/or resources. Balanced so far. Medkits can take 16 seconds for a self heal, but are limited. Inner healing can restore a health state faster, but requires 14 seconds of cleansing and finite resources. Everything checks out.
Boon: Circle Of Healing takes 14 seconds to bless a totem.
Subsequent, infinite heals take less time than before.
20 seconds to self-heal with the totem. (Faster than 32 and needs no resources)
~9 seconds to heal with a medkit or teammates (7 seconds faster than a normal healing process)
If 3 teammates have a healing party WITHOUT COH, it would take them a little over 30 seconds to heal everyone up to full. (~10 seconds a person, took the time of 3 people, balanced)
WITH COH they can all 3 be healed with only 15 seconds. (5 seconds per person!)
The value of COH is exponential depending on how long it stays up. The initial 14 seconds it took to install the totem is almost equal to the killer time it would take to snuff it. If it took the killer 5 seconds to walk to the totem, snuff it, then walk back - the value of time already had value.
The worst thing is that these healing techniques do not trade health states or resources, only time. Each health state must be equal in flat time to how much a killer must expend to re-acquire it in a fair chase.
However, what you can do for fun, here's a simple calculation to determine the flat value of the perk in terms of survivor time saved on healing per investment. V = ( B x [ S x 20 ] ) + { [ NPSH x 20 ] + [ PSH x 5 ] + [ TH x 6 ] } - [ (B x 14) / H ]
B is how many times the totem was blessed in the match. H is how many times survivors used the boon totem to aid in healing of any kind. this will show you how much flat time the survivors saved by using this perk.
NPSH is 'No Perk Self Heal' for allies that use the perk to heal without the aid of an item or perk. PSH is for those who use a medkit or perk to heal within the Boon's radius. And TH is for altruistic healing, which - on average - is done 6 seconds faster.
REMEMBER - that in most cases, the killer has to take several seconds through the course of the trial to walk to the toem and snuff it. While snuffing only takes a second, it scarcely happens next to a hook or in chase - so the killer is wasting time they could have spent pressuring or chasing in order to go to the totem and return. S is how many times the killer snuffed the totem. If the killer only needed to take 2 seconds to walk to the totem - then 2 to walk back from it, this calculation is fair and average. The killer's time is 4x more valuable than survivors in this sense, and so for each time the killer left chase, left the hook, left the generator, or left their vantage point to snuff the totem - survivors are usually netting a total of 20 seconds of shared time between everyone, and that's if the totem is nearby. This is a lenient number.
Here's and example:
Match against a trapper, survivors hit gens early as he sets up.
Gets into chase with the perk holder, but they get away.
Survivor blesses a totem - healed themselves, team takes hits as they do gens.
Killer comes back looking for survivors, finds the boon it is snuffed.
It's quickly blessed it again, and the entire team heals there for a reset.
A chase ensues and a survivor is downed with another injured.
The team picks up the survivor to full health. before the killer downs and hooks another and snuffs the totem.
Gens fly, but the ally is unhooked and protection hits are traded. Our main survivor manages to get the boon off, but is chased away before they can heal.
3 survivors escape injured and 1 survivor uses the totem and their medkit to heal themselves before taking a hit on the way out.
The perk has shown its incredible value in this situation, denying chases - providing cavalier protection hits, denying a hook - and denying a kill altogether at the end.
With our calculation, we come to this
V = ( 3 x [ 2 x 20 ] ) + { [ 2 x 20 ] + [ 1 x 5 ] + [ 6 x 6 ] } - [ (3 x 14) / 7 ]
V = ( 3 x [40] ) + { [ 40 ] + [ 5 ] + [ 36 ] } - [ (44) / 7 ]
V = (120) + { 81 } - [ 6.2 ]
V = 194.8
Circle Of Healing gave the survivors 194.8 seconds of value, with 2 free health states, 1 quick heal, 2 additional distractions, and one full save. Most of this was from the killer wasting time snuffing it only for it to be blessed again.
Even if the killer never snuffed the totem, the survivors would have gained 79 seconds of value and all the health states involved. If the killer dedicated to more chases instead of snuffing - he ran the risk of the survivors retreating to the totem and forcing a conflict of interest if he wants to waste the time on the totem, or if he will let it accrue more value and health states as he attempts to seize the momentum to his favor.
Dead hard may extend chases, but it can backfire - and can't be used more than a few times in a match. It can also be baited, and sometimes survivors mess up and get themselves killed with it. It may get up to 16 seconds of value per use if lucky or skilled enough.
To rival the usefulness of Circle of Healing, the killer must miss on 12 high value dead hard uses in a single match, and all of them must cause either a chase escape, or a greatly prolonged chase that lasts for several more seconds.
If survivors aren't using Dead Hard super well, or the killer is able to punish them from time to time, and they only get 5 seconds of value out of it on average, then it would take 39 Dead Hard uses in a single match to rival the power of Circle Of Healing.
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The major problems I've seen with survivors that play against this killer on on the two extremes (Which is what you want to see)
Sadly, newer survivors struggle to juke his ability, and often fall prey to him in chase because they lack knowledge on how to counter him or play against him well in a trial. Sometimes they will attempt to open the box, only for Pinhead to appear and win at chase, because new survivors are still learning.
Experienced survivors often get cocky and are prone to greed - which is often their downfall as a well placed chain ends their tight loop with a deadly result. They are often very cocky with the box and use it as a 'chase me' beacon - or understand to use it only after the killer picks up a survivor. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't.
The best way to win against a Pinhead is to play things VERY safe - much like Oni.
Don't greed pallets or vaults. Throw the pallets to make the gym more difficult, don't let him get too close in chase or a chain will spell your end.
Also, do what you can to employ stealth, much like a nurse. He needs to see you to hit you - and even his chains need direct lines to stay attached. Break line of sight from him and his chains and do whatever you can to put as much distance between him and yourself, even if it means sacrificing a pallet.
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Only some of these ideas are good.
- NO. There should NEVER be a time where the team REMOVES content from the game. Instead of removing the perks, they should take a tiny bit of time to buff/nerf/rework the perks to make them viable. If they're a waste of space - make them worth the space, it's no more difficult than changing things around to make it more fun and dynamic.
- NO. They should try to fix things, but new content is always welcome. NEVER discourage a dev team from bringing fresh content to the game.
- NO. Standing by a campfire is a bit important to let the killer and other survivors see exactly who everyone is and what items they are bringing. I get that they should have better animations than standing upright - but sitting down could prove difficult to show items and cosmetic nuance through animation and posture.
- NO. Bloodweb is fine. Played for nearly 2,000 hours and there isn't a problem with it. Even hardcore streamers haven't lifted serious complaints about it.
- NO. If people didn't have a cap for 1,000,000 bloodpoints, they could get bored with the game eventually. The primary benefit of the cap is to encourage players to USE the bloodpoints and get new items, try new characters, and invest in new strategies. After playing this game solid for 3 years - I have never ground my teeth because I was trapped at 1,000,000 BP and had nothing to do with them. This is an artificial problem.
- YES. They should fix the matchmaking system - but are you talking about RANK or MMR ?
- YES. Although, some players have contested that Adept missions are intended to be extremely challenging - in which case they should make survivor adepts require a double pip as well (Which is still unfair, but at least closer)
- NO. Rarity indicates frequency of use. There's a very common pattern in attachments. Brown, Yellow, Green - these usually have the same buffs and gimmicks of increasing quality and use. Purple and Red typically have unique usefulness and powerful buffs. Purple addons shouldn't be a straight buff, but usually slightly change how the Trial is played. Red addons should completely change how a killer approaches a Trial. The attachments do not need to be 'The best' or even outright 'good' - all that red addons need to do is change how the trial is played to some degree or another.
- EH. No winning with keys. They should find other ways to make them useful (Opening exit gates, opening boxes, etc.). But if they implement keys like they used to - it would be very bad very fast. If they reverted to the old system, they could take away the Hatche's ability to spawn before 1 generator remained. 2Gen escapes were the worst. However, there are perks and items to help people find the hatch with a key, so it isn't that big of a problem.
- NO. While it's a valiant effort to break up the disparity between solo que and SWF - there are only 2 things that will happen if this was implemented, from least to greatest: 1.) The killer will turn on sweat mode and bring the most meta perks and items once they see the match up they're going against. Once they see that there's a group of SWF, they're going to bring direct counters to altruistic play. 2.) 95% of the time, killers will just dodge and SWF will turn into a dead style of play. No survivors will be able to play with their friends, because no sane killer will go into a match knowing that everyone is in a call. Que times will go through the roof and this choice alone will probably kill SWF and make a huge dent in player retention for survivors who are social.
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At this point, I don't care about who the next killer is - I just want BeHavior to listen to the community for once - and the community has been hell bent on a FNAF crossover for a long, long while.
For the anniversary, I want the devs to say 'We're listening, community!' not 'We really like money, community!'
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@DyingWish92 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2847803#Comment_2847803
You can't bait it against good survivors unless they are in a dead zone. People need to stop saying this dumb shiiiit to defend Dead Hard.
Try lookin up real quick in chase when you're in lunge range.
Works like a charm.
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No perk should be gotten rid of for any reason.
Every perk mentioned could be fixed with a very, very simple update to make it balanced.
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It's a fun attachment for sure, but you're spot on - it's a gimmick.
The biggest problem with the Nurse is that her items are flat trash, with only a smattering of 'useful' addons in contrast with the numerous 'meme' addons.
In my opinion, it should probably do more (such as reveal the aura of the survivor for 6 seconds) and get bumped to purple.
They should make all of her attachments much, much stronger and fun to play with. They should probably take a look at nerfing her broken addons while working to turn the 'meme' ones into legitimate options.
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She's a rare killer to play against anyhow. Just glad that the poor souls that were playing her finally got her back up and working again.
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Either they should make Adept SUPER hard for everyone - and have survivors get 4 iridescent in order to get it. That way, everyone suffers and has no fun.
Or - make adepts as easy as a 4k. Fun.
Why this change has not gone through still confuses me, as the medal system can be finicky, but kill numbers are solid and can be qualified. There have been many nights where my killer matches are ground into a frustrating fury because I'm trying to get an adept with bad perks - and getting 4 iridescent medals with garbo perks and an empty slot is next to impossible, especially on higher ranks.
Get 4 kills with 1 less perk and the standard garbage selection? That's achievement enough. All survivors need to get their adept is walk out of the exit gates, which means if matchmaking works - it's 50/50 for them. Even if killers got the 4k change, if matchmaking worked - that would occur less than 25% of the time. Trying to get a merciless on those standards us brutal as all hell, and it needs to be made easier.
And if there's some BS reason they don't want adepts to be 'easy' - they gotta make Survivor adepts hard as well.
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@ItsJesseFFS said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2845139#Comment_2845139
- Lightning speed
- No TR
- No red stain
- Holds you hostage in lockers
- Can jump right over dropped pallets and through windows
- 6 second cooldown
- Built-in bloodhound
So yes, you are mad because he can hit you and check lockers.
But don't forget the best ones:
- Can't hit you on a tight loop (Tree, car, aggressive rock)
- Can be held hostage for most of the match for virtually no punishment
- No scratch marks
- Can be insta-killed on a miss or hit.
- Cannot interact with the environment
Brilliant.
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@SuzuKR said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2845106#Comment_2845106
Sorry, but this is objectively wrong.
Having a completely different experience than one another is not 'Objectively wrong'
This is my experience boiled down. You don't have to like it or agree with it to exist.
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?
Way too much?
He hits you and goes on lockers. What is he doing that's 'Too much' ?
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Twins is a SNORE - because Big Sis is a lumbering oaf with nothing interesting.
Victor is interesting, but unreliable. You're spending less than half of your time with him if playing properly.
Giving him a lot more to do will make playing Twins a lot more fun and interesting, while also making them a lot more dynamic to play against as Survivor.
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Instead of creating animations with their janky system to be contextual. They should pour resources elsewhere.
For instance. It would take ONE call from a department head and ONE code monkey to fix Beast Of Prey and StreetWise to become Meta perks.
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It would be best if the cycle was quick.
Announcement: THE RINNGGG!! TRY IT TODAY!
PTB is out in hours
Everyone is riding the high.
Just a couple of weeks before it goes live.
Little tweaks and balance updates every couple of days.
Turn the entire 3 week experience into a giant fiesta. Really be intentional with your market and create a customer facing pipeline that encourages engagement.
You want people to take time off work to play your game, not forgetting the release date because it's been two months since it was announced.
IMO here's what I heard when the chapter was announced:
"Hi! We're Behavior! Sorry we screwed up. We've had the worst fourth quarter in company history and we'd really like to change things for our investors, but this is looking like a bad First Quarter 2022. We're announcing this early because we hope that players will come back in anticipation rather than leave."
"Instead of fixing our problems and making a better product, we hope that by using an early marketing announcement and an aggressive social media approach with an impromptu Bloodhunt, we might be able to draw in more players to pump up our numbers before we have our quarterly meetings."
"We, Behavior, do not care about you or this game. We do not care about they IP, we simply want better retention and sales - which is why we were very early with our announcement. There will be no positive balance updates. Bye."
Not a good look. Next time, do what's best for the hype train, the Chapter, and the players. Announce it when you have something to put forward. You can have a few 'leaks' generate hype in the fan base early on, but you don't want to commit until you have actual fuel to drive that train to market.
Summer is coming up, best fiscal time for the company, but I have a feeling like they're going to see a dip before the second quarter is up. Players don't care about the IP if you don't make them - and the delays in the PTB with lackluster killer gameplay did not inspire confidence. Your Twitch clicks may go up, but after the last couple of IPs, I bet your projections were a bit off on this one.
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There are only 3 scenarios that exist.
1.) The Nurse is good.
You cannot win the game. Using strong perks and a legacy of experience, the Nurse pinpoint blinks mid-chase and has incredible map awareness. She is quick to punish the slightest mistake and there is NO way to counter her. Due to her power and oppressively presence - many perks become COMPLETELY invalid. Not fun at all. No way to come back after she gets a hook or two.
2.) The Nurse is bad.
They can't blink right, fall for easy mind games, miss when spun. It's sad. They never get hooks - maybe one or two, but they struggle. It's not fun, just sad. Dead hard and they get fatigued - hearing that pathetic 'fatigue' sound as their inevitable frustration mounts. No pressure, no stakes. Just a snooze fest. Feel bad for them - they're trying to have fun and get better, but it's not their day... it's not their game.
3.) The Nurse is OK.
Good chase, doesn't fall for every trick and lands a lot of their hits. Should this be fun? No pallets, outrun them half the time, they bring the same 3 'good' addons because the others are handicaps. It's a snooze fest. Each 'equal' game plays the same. The Nurse either misses their ability and you walk away from them, or they hit and there's basically nothing you can do. You can't win in chase, you can't evade them well across the map. All you do is try the stealthy route and hope you can out-walk them and bait out a miss. Sure, you may or may not escape - it's fair, right? But no, it's not. It's as exciting as watching someone else's kids play checkers. Maybe it's 50/50, but it's not like you have a hole lot to do with it. The Nurse will either doom themselves, or be unstoppable. The power is no longer in your hands.
No matter what, when I see the killer is a nurse, I roll my eyes.
The entire match is a waste at that point. 9/10 times it's going to be a bore.
Either we're going to escape no problem, or we're going to have to actually TRY - and just take a gambling shot that the Nurse isn't GOOD.
The fun part of the game is chasing and interacting with the killer in certain ways. The Nurse's power is about circumventing that and punishing interaction.
Fun.
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Save The Best for Last is an incredibly underrated and VERY strong killer perk
D-Strike is a MASSIVE meta perk that is great in any survivor build, ESPECIALLY for newcomers that hate being tunneled.
The Shape is a lower tier killer that struggles in pro games. But Once you get the hang of him, he's super fun IMO. Scaring people in the early game and surprising them with a mid-chase Tier III is satisfying as hell.
Silent Hill has the superior Killer - PP Head is very strong and has a lot of mechanics that you can use to your advantage in the Trial. But the perks are Meh across the board. Halloween is the superior buy for both perks and Killer fun factor.
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I think the game should have a slightly higher FOV to begin with - but unfortunately is DOES give an advantage that pros would exploit.
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@SuzuKR said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2841459#Comment_2841459
Uh. First of all, sliding was LITERALLY an intended mechanic developed by his creator, explicitly attached to his camera angle for that reason. The only unintended thing was removing collision by starting hugging the object already, not the sliding by looking down. Blight’s Lethal Rush has two collision components. One is his model direction itself. The other is attached to his camera and can thus be intentionally shrunk by looking down. You are literally not intended to be safe just cause you turn a corner. That would be an incredibly dumb hard counter that has no relation to actual skill input. Hard counters are bad design, because something out of one’s control takes precedence over player vs player mindgame skill.
Second of all, any exact item will ALWAYS have the same collision as itself. For instance, Yamaoka’s shack. It will ALWAYS be the same collision (unless BHVR updates the map itself entirely). For instance, a tractor on Coldwind. It will ALWAYS have the same collision as all exact tractors like that (ie, the exact same truck model regardless where it’s copy pasted by RNG generation on Coldwind). The Blight and survivors both learn that and thus they know what each can do around any given object/tile. Collision is always consistent to its own specific object.
Yes.
Are you on a roll with proving my point?
And just because the mechanic is CREATED by the devs does not mean that its use was INTENDED. That's akin to saying 'There's an eyewash station in the bathroom, thus my employers must have INTENDED for me to use it as a urinal.
If someone is using ushu-wushu logic to justify an inexplicable and niche outcome that is being exploited by the top players as 'intentional' - it's a backwards argument.
In no way in Blights forward facing design was he intended to run around corners - he was given several rushes to encourage him to use angles to maneuver corners. If players have him running around corners, then you got yourself a confliction.
(Also, I never at any point said that collision itself is random, but that what does and doesn't allow for slides is seemingly random. It's trial and error that only seasoned players will find through unclear experience. This is not a design choice - it is a fluke. There is NO game mechanic that has ever been intended by developers that works in CERTAIN circumstances that are only discoverable through sheer trial and error. So yeah, thanks for disproving your first point in the second?)
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@SuzuKR said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2841425#Comment_2841425
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2841047#Comment_2841047
??? Nurse is a non-issue. The only reason uneven matches happen are ones where it would make no sense for it to not be uneven. Good players in an even matchup can play as and against her just fine. Literally every single thing in her kit is mindgameable. It’s not even remotely one sided if the matchup is actually even and the survivors know how to play against her.
This is an incredible over-simplification.
Not only is it baseless and completely wrong, as attested to by just about every single pro player out there, but the developers themselves constantly have to dance around Nurse in their design approaches with how easy it is for her to break the game.
Starstruck was originally going to be a lot stronger until the Devs had to take a look at the Nurse and determined that the Nurse with StarStruck is far too powerful if it was any stronger. No other killer made them concerned.
The extreme benefits of the Nurse are plain to see, and are more than capable of decimating a team of survivors when in the hands of a good Nurse main.
If she's good or bad is not in the question. The truth is she's arguably the strongest killer in the game if played properly.
We aren't debating HER strength, we're debating the validity of an ADDON which conflicts with her design philosophy.
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@SuzuKR said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2840261#Comment_2840261
Just cause something was originally intended doesn't mean it is unable to become accepted as intended. This is exactly what happened with the early design of DBD way back in 2016. DBD was originally a hide-and-seek oriented game, not a chase-oriented one. That's why infinites existed, because they were never meant to be chased around. People realized looping is possible, and started doing that instead of hiding. Since the community was a fan of it, the game got rebalanced around chases instead of hide-and-seek, and that's why loops were readjusted and made to not be infinites, etc.
Hug tech adds mindgaming depth to a chase, because it allows for more options for both sides in an interactive manner. Without it, there are some things that can be hard counters, which is not good gameplay design. Chases should come down to whoever is more skilled, not things out of one's control like map/object generation RNG. And succeeding at mindgaming/baiting false reads is the expression of exactly that. It comes down to whoever is better at adapting to and reading the opponent. It makes more chases and areas a 50/50, based off whoever makes the right read/play. Everything about hug tech can be countered via mindgames. Just make the right read. This is exactly what experienced players do versus experienced Blights.
I think you're getting way too far into the philosophical element of meta evolution.
In truth, Blight gliding around corners because he's looking down isn't some form of meta strategy like looping or chasing that is a core part of player interaction - it's just a failure to validate collision.
Blight was not intended for this, not because Behavior wasn't creative enough to think about it (Like loops and such) but moreover, it's because the Blight was designed to run in straight lines and use bumping to flick around and change trajectory. By using collision validation against the system, people are running around corners, and that is not what the killer is about - not in design, nor in practice. Survivors should know if they are safe by running around a corner from a blight, because it is part of his Kit. Allowing such an inconsistency into the kit is not professional for any developer. If they wanted to make Hugging a strategy element, they could add code to make it possible - but less difficult with more tokens expended - you can't hug for the first 2 dashes, but the latter 3 are increasingly more 'huggable'.
Right there. That's how you bring something into the meta and make it clear to both sides the rules of engagement.
As is, saying that an exploit is a feature because 'look at looping and Bloodlust! it's exactly the same!' is not a valid argument to be made.
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@SuzuKR said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2840253#Comment_2840253
Fun fact, the best Nurses in the world versus the best survivors in the world while playing on an even-sided map averages out to... 2K. And this is WITH heavy restrictions on survivors (the Nurse is also restricted, but far less so). When all restrictions are completely removed, Nurse's average drops to a negative (below 2K).
Fun fact 2, MMR does not guarantee consistent or even skill matchups, nor any of the other factors that affect a game's result (map RNG, tile RNG, how serious each side is, how knowledged each side is on their own characters and perks, how knowledged each side is on the opponent and how to play against them, items, add-ons, offerings, perks, level of coordination between the survivors, voice comms or no, etc). When a matchup is significantly uneven, the results will also be significantly uneven. This is a given. Which is why it consistently averages out to a 2K in the cases where it actually IS an even matchup.
Fun fact 3, most average players are just not that good. This isn't meant to be degrading. That's just the given, average is average. Against average players, you can win with basically anything ever. Hell, any genuinely good player could do 4K streaks with zero gen regression Trapper against average players/perkless escape streaks/etc and do fairly well. Tier anything is pretty much irrelevant to the average game.
Fun fact 4, learning Nurse to a decent level requires a ton of game knowledge, since her chase is all about out-mindgaming the survivor she is chasing, which requires knowledge of how survivors tend to play, knowledge of maps, map tiles, specific areas with and without line of sight and how to navigate/play around those properly, so on and so forth. Most survivors don't have the same level of knowledge in return, since all of that isn't needed to generally beat a standard M1 killer. If one side is significantly more knowledged on gameplay than the other, the results will be slanted. That's a given. Which is why it consistently averages out to a 2K in the cases where it actually IS an even knowledge matchup.
Fun fact 5, not many people know how to play against Nurse in the first place, as she's not that common due to her extreme difficulty and harsh learning curve, so it's not a regular enough occurrence they'd have that much experience against her, or have looked into learning how to face her. When one side doesn't know how to play versus the other's specific loadout (in this case, the killer choice), of course the results are uneven. That's a given. Which is why it consistently averages out to a 2K in the cases where it actually IS an even counter-knowledge matchup.
Yes.
. . .
Thank you for proving my point?
I fail to see how much of anything you said truly conflicts with what I said. Perhaps you're trying to say that the top 1% of Survivors are even with the top 1% of Nurse players. But when it comes down to it, there are several reasons for this - and a lot of it has to do with balancing concerns that supersede the argument about the Nurse itself.
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New Killer:
The Creeper
You get 1 shot to kill the survivors. Make it count.
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@SuzuKR said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2839299#Comment_2839299
And yet… Both Nurse and Blight remains balanced at even the highest levels of play even. It by no means is uncounterable, either. It’s a 50/50 mindgame back and forth that promotes skill, since it means more possible mindgames for both.
Way to go - you failed at reading comprehension.
Blight has a good balance at high levels. Yes. But high level play involves these exploits. If you remove the exploit, you remove it from the 'balanced' high level play. You're going to have to put something back into the Blight to keep it balanced at higher ranks if the people who use these tactics are yielding 'balanced' results.
And something we've seen a lot from the dev team, generally, is their blatant incapability to understand numbers. According to their statisticians - old DS was fine and balanced (50/50) and needed no change. They also argued that old Object Of Obsession needed no rework, because it did not give any advantage to players.
Just because Behavior is releasing 'conclusive' data doesn't mean diddly. Never rely on their statements.
Logically, though, if you take a strong tool away from a GOOD thing - you're going to have to put something back to keep it GOOD.
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@SuzuKR said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2839308#Comment_2839308
It’s fine being an add-on the way it is. It’s easy to get, since it’s brown. You only need it for learning at the very start and then you learn the rest without it. It gets distracting after. And she’s balanced at highest levels of play.
If you have to make a 'training' addon - you've already messed up your core philosophy.
And if you think she's balanced at the highest levels, you haven't stepped against a top-tier nurse before.
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Tempting. But I'll save my money.
I'll buy more materiel from Behavior when they get their act together and start doing good work on their game.
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AFK killers and 'Derankers' have been a thing forever.
the entire Pig part of the modicum where they're burning powerful addons just so that they can mismanage the match is a THEM problem.
If You hate killers sitting around for a few gens or an entire game, and can't stomach it, you're the one who needs to touch some grass.
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Maybe preface before making a poll?
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A lot of people have already done the hard work to suggest how IT would actually be played out.
While I doubt it will ever be a thing - it would be one of the best choices they'd make.
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They are needed BADLY.
I'm sick of seeing the same 5 Meta perks in each slot. There are OVER 100 and I can attest to you that I've seen the same pool of 20 or so in play.
Not only is the perk game weak, but the devs frankly do not understand how to balance any of these, which is strange - because most (if not all) could be balanced VERY easily.
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I used to a lot. If I play a LOT of a game, I see no problem shooting the devs some money for choice cosmetics.
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Behavior just needs to gut up and make the hard choice:
Either get rid of the addon, or make it base kit.
The fact that we're here deliberating if the training wheels are detrimental to learning curves is evidence enough that this should either be a part of the base experience or not.
Either players should be able to play Nurse with a clear, concise indicator of what they're doing - or they don't, and you're going to have to learn the hard way.
Honestly, the Devs need to take a look at her and make some hard choices on how they want her to be designed. She's not at all 'noob friendly' and she's unstoppable if played by a good killer main. So, how do you make it so that people can approach the killer, but also don't make her SO powerful that a skilled player locking in is basically a GG at load-in.
Dropping little cute 'training' addons to alleviate bad design philosophy is not going to solve the underlying problem.
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The only issue is - if they remove it, they basically are flipping the bird to killer mains.
It is an exploit and gives an illegitimate advantage to Blight mains. However, this is not how things should go.
There's a reason why Blight and Nurse are so strong. There's a reason why they're also no fun to play against in these circumstances.
Yes, they should patch it so that this exploit is no longer a concern for players. However, they should find a very small way to Buff the blight to balance it out.
If all the top players are only winning matches because of an exploit, make sure you do more than REMOVE the exploit. Or else you're sending a lot of players home empty handed.
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A lot of it comes from the increased frustration players are facing from poor design decisions from the devs.
I don't think it's the community itself, I believe it's the means in which they are encouraged to interact - directly and indirectly.
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It's classic, recognizable, and best of all - it matches the aesthetic - and the gameplay mechanic.
Big Sister is a close second. But Bouncer is a staple of the franchise that is recognized by people who have never played a single game in the series.
I'd love to see a 110% killer with a slightly extended lunge range.
Perhaps they could have a short dash ability that also knocks targets away - similar to the Demogorgon with a shorter range and slightly faster wind-up. 18m/s Speed for the dash with a cooldown and an animation / fatigue on hit/miss.
Main ability could be the drill scream - where an animation plays where the Bouncer places his drill in the ground and revs it, creating a high pitched screech. Survivors within a short distance are deafened (Don't see that effect much!) and suffer from distorted vision for a few seconds, and are Hindered slightly while it is cast.
The passive ability of the Bouncer could be a Rage mode that is triggered after being stunned. Increased Cooldown speed on abilities and small buffs around (115% movement speed, 20% missed attack recovery, red eyes, etc.) which ends early upon hitting another survivor.
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It would not work in the current infrastructure.
There should be a 2v6 mode of some sort, which would be very interesting to say the least.
That being said - a Co-Op killer against 4 survivors would be 100% broken, as it would completely divide the balance. Unless there is a place carved out for it, it will not happen.
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While the other killers can send chills up my spine with the devious ire that lurks within the inflection of their chuckles - the Doctor takes the cake for a laugh that legitimately instills discomfort and paranoia in my soul.
If I was in public and I heard any of these other laughs, I'd probably assume there was a very niche joke that I missed - or that something interesting happened.
If I heard the Doctor's laugh in public, I'd only assume that I was about to die.
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The Wraith is thematically confused and completely misguided. His lore is a sloppy mess, and his aesthetic is a mishmash of conflicting elements that border on comical where they don't overlap into the absurd. He is, by nature, one of the least visibly intimidating and striking killers in the game. His gameplay as well is somewhat janky and struggles to blend with the themes of the game. On top of it all, his Lore is laughable and at no point matches the heart of Dead By Daylight's intent of brutality, twisted intent, and malefic evil meshed with contemporary horror tropes and elevated physical intimidation.
The Hillbilly, however, hits all of these notes in stride.
His thematic elements are consistent and plain - he is a singular and well thought out character with a clear niche.
He is visibly striking in his deformation, with a very clear threat to his gait.
His Lore is both mysterious, sympathetic, and monstrous enough to feature him as a form of antagonist that was twisted by the evil of The Entity.
He is, simply put, the superior option to represent Dead By Daylight and its aspects from a thematic stand point, a gameplay stand point, and an artistic stand point.
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It's an interesting concept that matches the themes of Obsessions very well.
Obsessions are always in an odd spot where killers are often engaged with them, but perks incentivize killers to save them for last.
Dark Devotion, Play With Your Food, Dying Light - you're always pushed into interacting with the Obsession, but it's in the killer's BEST interest to keep them alive to make their perks work best.
Rancor comes out of the woodwork with a powerful punctuation to this mentality - SAVE THE OBSESSION FOR LAST.
Everything hints at it, but sometimes the Obsession is daring and plays around the killer well. Rancor allows a killer to best utilize their perks and play around the prospect of ignoring 3 hook states once all gens pop.
Survivors know that it's coming too. Which makes end game a tense battle each and every match that has it in it.
While some survivors may complain that it's a cruel perk that has no counterplay - the truth is that it's an entire perk slot that can easily be countered.
If the Obsession dies before end game. It's useless. If the Obession makes it to an exit gate, it's useless. If the Obsession ate hooks and took chases so others could escape, it was useless.
The killer is electing to take THIS perk instead of something like NOED. Count your blessings.
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Good or bad, the game needs variety. Call Of Duty had more varied maps and locations back in 2007 than this game does in 2022 with over 7 years of development under its belt.
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It's probably one of, if not the most useless Hex perk out there.
Blindness has next to no bearing on Survivor gameplay as is. If Blindness got a buff, it may become stronger. There is absolutely NO reason to bring it into a Trial - even if you're going an anti-information build, there are a lot of other perks that can disorient and confuse survivors more effectively without the risk of being cleansed.
The only way to make it viable at this point is to add effects to it, rather than augmenting Blindness itself (Which would be the ideal solution)
Something along the lines of:
Hex: The Third Seal
A Hex that roots itself in the aura-reading abilities of survivors. You exploit your prey's reliance on intuition and insight - rendering them stupefied before you.
For each unique survivor hit with an attack, gain a token up to 2/3/4.
Each survivor that is hit with a basic attack is afflicted with a debuff.
1 Token - Survivors are afflicted with the Blindness effect
2 Tokens - Survivors can no longer see health states, status states, or generator count on the HUD.
3 Tokens - Progress bars and item information are removed, making the only HUD element visible Skill Checks.
4 Tokens - The killer becomes Undetectable.
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There is a rat-child energy to all who play her.
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I honestly don't know why this perk hasn't gotten looked at.
Not only does it not do much for the core experience of the game itself, but it fails to fulfill the niche that it initially sets out to accommodate.
One the meta hand, it's a perk that permanently steals an entire health state away from the player. At the very beginning of the match, the killer can mark them for death and focus them as an easy out. While other survivors can, on average, force the killer to pay for 6 health states (with the ability to go endlessly higher than this) - No Mither is locked at a hard 3 health states. It isn't simply non-viable. It's insanity to bring. If a survivor ever escapes with it, it's because the killer took pity on them - or they got incredibly lucky. There is no 'No Mither' player that outplays the killer at any point and runs them for several generators.
On the other hand, the developers themselves claim this to be 'hard mode'. But let's take a look at what it does. It marks you for death, limits your chasing potential, and makes you a primary hook priority. Some people misunderstand the 'get back up forever' benefit - thinking it is a failed concept, when it truly works as intended. No killer will ever slug you with the perk, they will always hook you. To understand what the devs meant by 'hard mode' - you have to ask yourself, what is so 'hard' about the game that separates the good players form the noobs? Back in 2016, the developers believed that this was STEALTH. Having reduced groans of pain and leaving no blood pools meant that stealth was a viable option. However, leaving scratch marks and taking chases was certain death. This means that No Mither is a stealth perk that is certain death if you are found out. However, in 2022 - we know things to be much different. The 'Good' players are able to take numerous hits and stretch out chases while efficiently trading health states to force the killer to pay for each and every ounce of momentum they earn. In this case - where No Mither used to be 'hard mode' in concept because it made the ideal stealth game a lot more challenging, now it is simply an albatross of destruction that has no true benefit. While stealth can be an option, it is simply not viable in the game at its current state.
While it can be argued that the poor design choices make No Mither a 'hard mode' perk due to its oppressively nature - ideally, it would still reward players for playing the game 'the hard way' and contribute to winning games by making bold plays and perhaps allowing players to consistently be at a greater disadvantage, while harboring benefits that allow them to play the meta better, which may put them into greater danger. The original concept was 'Hide better, die faster' - you can trade the 'hide better' and still have a perk.
The fact that the team hasn't rolled out a rework is disappointing because it has such great opportunity. Especially when it could be made to synergize with other perks as well.
Here are 4 suggestions off the top of my head; a simple Rework addition | A Major Rework | A Simple Overhaul |and an Major Overhaul:
Simple Rework:
While broken, taking a protection hit instead applies deep wounds.
(Pro - Very strong in very particular situations, which reward players for bringing high risk perks that afflict the broken status, while also providing counters to certain killer builds and items | Con - Potentially useless perk slot, 'Hard mode')
Major Rework:
You are constantly Exposed. While injured, recover from Exhaustion while running.
(Pro - Not marked from death at the onset and encourages players NOT to heal after being unhooked, or damaged through indirect means. Getting strong exhaustion perks back mid-chase while injured is a major tradeoff for never having the safety of a health state as a backup | Con - Never truly have 2 health states, each and every chase is to the death. Killers may complain about survivors starting chases with Exhaustion perks, and regaining them by the time Bloodlust III kicks in)
Simple Overhaul:
Press the active ability button while in the Dying state to instantly recover to the Injured state. This will inflict the Broken status for the remainder of the Trial. While Broken, leave no blood trail, Aura is hidden from the Killer, and all actions are completed 1/3/5% faster.
(Pro - This will make the perk have a strong early game with an in-born counter to certain killers to prevent redundancies where the Broken effect is considered. Gain a small buff and potentially turn the tables on the killer in a slugging situation. | Con - When triggered, marks the player for death just as the original No Mither. Is hard mode, but the player must be downed to activate it in the first place.)
Major Overhaul:
While in the Dying State: If the killer picks up or drops another survivor while within 12/18/24 meters, you are instantly restored to the Injured state and are Broken for 60 seconds if not already broken. While Broken, moving while in the Dying state activates this perk's secondary effect: Aura is concealed from the killer, leave no blood trail, and make no sound, can pick self up from Dying State without aid.
(Pro - Gives the player a free health state in exchange for becoming Broken for a minute, provided the killer does not play around it. Grants players the slugging benefits of No Mither without tipping off the killer to its presence. | Con - Marks the player for death when activated. Killers will not slug if they witness this perk in action. Very low probability of working ideally without coordination and circumstance)
All that said, these are simple ideas that approach the perk from different angles. Not that they are, by merit, phenomenal ideas themselves - however, I believe that if the perk was swapped out for any one of these TODAY, there would be NO community backlash for fans of the original, and there would likely be many interesting builds surrounding it.
Either way, they should probably change the description and flavor text:
Description: You can shake off even the roughest punishment when you’re pushed.
Flavor Text: ’He lamped me good before I could do so much as stand. Didn’t let up neither. Just kept throwin’ himself at me ‘til I was on the ground. Didn’t expect me to get back up so fast, lost him some good teeth for the trouble.’ – David King
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Of all aspects, that is the most important thing to cancel out the perk. You can slug a survivor at a gen - or punish them for a risky attempt at healing, perhaps down them at a totem. But when a survivor goes for a suicide unhook, that's 100% against the killer's interest.
The killer's hooks are the same as a survivor's generators - they are sacred to the tempo. If you can trade 1 unhook for 0 for FREE so long as you have a singular perk that CANNOT be countered. That's a problem.
DS is basically a situational denial for a hook state. You cannot trade another hook state for this. It is against the core philosophy of balance itself.
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Vietnam has some very interesting folklore that can be dipped into.
That, and their long history with brutality and mental health in the face of the war has created some striking imagery and urban legends to explore.