UlvenDagoth
UlvenDagoth
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Dude, I agree with all of this. The Killer is alone, against 4 people. Why is the deck stacked so hard in the TEAM'S favor, that the guy on his own is the one racing to catch up. On a pie chart, the Killer should be half of it and the survivors should make up the other half, 1/4th each. An Asymmetrical where the guy by himself is the low end of the totem pole is unbalanced as all #########.
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My only Question is why Ghost Face and Wraith don't have Undetectable, when OoO hurts them the most?
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@Omans said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/682507#Comment_682507
Because there was no counterplay if the legion wanted. What the guy above wrote is hogwash. Rational people wanted a legion CHANGE, not nerf.
I would ask that next time, you phrase that nicer.
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@AetherBytes said:
I agree with OP. Many people forget that 4 survivors are meant to be equal to 1 killer. that's why the snowball when a survivor gets sacrificed will never be fixed, because now the killer has more power. If it reaches a point where it's 1v1, you're not meant to be able to escape, and yet you get 3 chances, 2 more than needed.
It's easy to explain with a pie chart. Half should be Killer and half should be all the survivors together, each being 1/4th of that side. I feel like the Pie chart has been messed up where the Killer's slice is now the same as one Survivor. That's not how it's supposed to be.
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@KillermainBTWm8 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/682487#Comment_682487
It's called a joke my good sir.
I know, but still. That was too easy.
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@Talmeer said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/681433#Comment_681433
You are right and wrong with your posting imo, but that I am also for sure sometimes.
You are right that the Legion was very fast and that the counterplay was not always given, but that was either because the Legion had use op addons, or the survivor has put himself in a terrible position and a killer should not be nerfed, because some survivor did something wrong.
A default Legion, you could indeed counter with pallets. Mostly on 2 ways. Either you jump over the pallet and then back (as long as the Legion had frenzy running). If you have done that in the right time, the Legion was not be able to hit you with his frenzy hits. There was a small time window, were the Legion could not hit his victim. I have one time search on YouTube for a survivor and also direct found an tutorial video for that, if you are interested (they are really not hard to find).
And you could simpley pallet stun a Legion. If the Legion got pallet stunned, she had lost all her power. If the Legion had something like Franks Mixtape attached it was nearly impossible to do that, because then the Legion had even the time to stay for the pallet and wait for the survivor, so that he puts it down.
On the other hand, if you had no addon running that changes the frenzy time, you was sometimes pressed to it, to still hunt the survivor even with the danger of a palletstun over your head (no pun intended), because the frenzy time of the Legion was so short in the times back then.
Also the people have and still will probably complain about every killer in the future. You just need to search in this forum and I bet you will find "nerf billy and huntress" threads.
I can remember very well on some nerf threads because of the Huntress hatchets.
Her flyling hatchets (or how ever they are called in english), are also a special abilitie of a killer, where is no counterplay to it, once you got hitten.
You can for sure try to avoid, getting hitten, but once you are - you are down. By the Legion you could at least heal yourself, or get a heal by a friendly survivor.
And all that, you could also see in the statistics. While bhvr was working on the Legion patch, they showed also a "kill rate" statistic of every killer and the Legion was one of the last ones (don't know how good she performes today, since bhvr had taken the fun out the Legion). If I remember correctly, only the Clown was worse in this statistic as the Legion.
Would be there no counterplay and would have been the Legion so op, the Legion would have been not one of the worst killers - she would have instead fight with the best killers for place 1 of the best killrate.
So at the end, the Legion had counterplay. It just had take a different skill as only running around in loops and I have speak with survivors also about that and read also sometimes some of them in this or the steamforums and some of them miss that pressure and that different counterplay the Legion has force them to do.
Of course not everyone has this opinion but as said before, while we as players can either try to see every opinion or decide to see just oure side... A game should ->always<- try to get every playertype on board.
Thank you for that. I get so tired of seeing "No Counter Play" as an excuse for nerfs.
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@Pokerface303 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/680948#Comment_680948
The issue wasn't that he had a m2 that could down people because that's fine. The issue was in how his m2 worked to down people. With old legion there was literally nothing you could do to counter his power. When he was in frenzy he was very fast so you couldn't out run him, he could fast vault windows so those were useless, and he could fast vault pallets so those were usless. The only thing you could do was sit at a pallet and get hit the first time then drop that pallet to stun him and get him out of his power but at that point you have to waste a health state and a pallet so it wasn't really viable. When you look at nurse, billy, huntress, etc these killers have powers that potentially were even better than the old legion power but the reason people weren't complaining about those powers is because they were fair and had counter play. I really like legion, I think he has one of the coolest designs and concepts but his old power did need a change. I really hope he gets buffed soon, his power is weak and isn't unique at all.
Not complaining? Have you seen this forum?
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@not_Queen said:
@Aztreonam78 We do have something in our roadmap for Legion. Right now, the live design team is concentrating on the Nurse addon rehaul (among other stuff).
We are too early in the development process on the Legion changes to communicate about an ETA or even the changes themselves but be sure that when we are ready, we will communicate about it.
Thank you! This gives me hope!
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@Demodog said:
Devs doing something about an issue? 😂 In what world do you think that’s gonna happen?
Did you miss where the Dev came in and said they are working on it?
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@KillermainBTWm8 said:
legion is 1/4 of an actual killer. :P
I am not surprised someone said this, just disappointed.
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Oh hey, this came back up.
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@Aztreonam78 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/680897#Comment_680897
This was VERY unfun mechanic, survivors were too helpless before, Legion just was able to wait untill gauge is filled and down.
In fact, let me paraphrase myself.
So I saw earlier where a post talking about Legion needing a buff and one person kept saying "Legion is a bunch of angry teens. It makes sense there power sucks." Which made me go and find a post I saw in a discussion trying to say "1 Vs. 1 is unfair." in which a Dev says
It's definitely not meant to be fair. At that point, the survivors have failed to finish the generators and failed to find the hatch first. The EGC is meant to end the game at that point, not give you a 50/50 chance of escaping. If anything, it would be unfair to the killer to give the survivor an even chance at escaping after they've beaten the survivor multiple times by that point.
Alot of people seem to forget this is an asymmetrical game. 4 vs. 1. You are not supposed to be able to go toe to toe with the Killer, because the Killer has to be as strong as 4 Survivors or at least keep up with them. The community as a whole seems to have forgotten this, (I had one guy arguing with me that the Entity doesn't buff up the Killers at all) and why this makes things a nightmare to balance.
The Legion nerf is a very good example of this. There power, cause of some exploits, is so broken and weighted down that it is useless. IF you miss, you lose your power and get a 4 second stun. If you hit, you can keep going but that next survivor can just SB away and you eat the stun. If you m1, You lose half your bar and can't use your power. Legion with the reduced vaulting and all is easy to loop. All cause they had no "Counter Play."
Saying that a Killer is broken because of "Lack of Counter Play." or "If the Killer sees you, you can't get away unless they get distracted." or "1 vs. 1 I can't beat them." Is a weak excuse when you remember the nature of this game. You need to use your skill in Looping and/or hiding to lose the Killer. It's just something to say to try and give your point merit. Old Legion needed a fix then, but not the orbital strike of a nerf they got. All cause there was an easy to fix exploit and enough people got upset... cause they forgot that the 1, is supposed to be as strong or stronger than the 4.
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@Aztreonam78 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/680897#Comment_680897
This was VERY unfun mechanic, survivors were too helpless before, Legion just was able to wait untill gauge is filled and down.
I had a topic about this before that is waiting approval now cause I edited it. Btw, it was against your point.
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@ArrowTheGreat11 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/680702#Comment_680702
That’s what I have to do when I have to lay there on the floor for 60 seconds
I see that you are trolling. I shall leave you to it. Good Day.
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Dude, please use some periods in your sentences or something. I can't even read them cause it makes my eyes bleed.
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@Kilmeran said:
The whole "angry teens thing" and ranting from there . . .
I remember one poster who made that argument several times. I won't name them, but I learned outside the forums to take whatever they said with a grain of salt.
Yea I figured, but it made me think the rest of it and got me to look up that quote. So figured i'd include it.
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@Kilmeran said:
@UlvenDagoth Same. Never used the add-on exploit nor the moonwalking one. Hell, didn't even know they existed until the forums spelled it out, and still never did it.
Old Legion was fun. And yes, I say that from the point of both playing as him and against him.
But the internet is the perfect example of millions of idiots spreading their disease unchecked. It's why we can't have nice things in online games.
Yea, I've posted a few times with my thoughts on Legion and the game as a whole. It's like if you arnt bitching no one looks or cares. I had to have it shown to me too (The exploits) and thought of them as ######### moves.
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@Kilmeran said:
@UlvenDagoth Tell me about it. I want to play Legion. But he seems to have some sort of undocumented ability that gives survivors a unique emote whenever they see him in a match.
They drop to the ground and roll around in laughter. :(
I mained Old Legion. I loved it... and never once used that stupid exploit. Now when i use Legion i just feel how crippled they are.
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@Kilmeran said:
Six months? Nope, he's getting the Freddy treatment. They'll look at him again in 2021.
This comment is depressing.
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I've been getting them for quite a while. I hope BHVR fixes this. I just want the Killer and have very limited funds.
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@Kaelum said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/680731#Comment_680731
You would be mistaken. No one at BHVR has ever said that, in fact, they’ve said the exact opposite. Just watch the old devs streams. They’ve said it on at least 5 streams.
Then I'll double check. Thank you for the info
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@JawsIsTheNextKiller said:
@Fab - Yeah, I shouldn't be using click-baity titles really! Killer mains probably clicked to give me abuse for bragging about "only" getting ten 4Ks lol.
I would really like them to reign in the pips a little for survivors, especially when it is so difficult to pip as killer. Perhaps a little extra credit for everyone escaping and a little less for nobody escaping might help. I probably pipped half my games so I technically won but it certainly didn't feel like it.
I was honestly just gonna ask HOW you got them. I'm not all that good, so I was hoping for some advice.
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@AWesley91 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/677555#Comment_677555
BuT sURviVoR OP jUsT AdMiT iT pls NeRF DS
They cant let facts get in the way
There is no need for this kind of tone. Not all Killers are like this.
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@Strange said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/679901#Comment_679901
I still think is bs, the objetive of ruin is prevent you to get the repairs and force you to look for the totem , or go for the great skill checks (better ranks), doing the tapping trick let you repair, with toolbox and another survivor is like no ruin at all.
Fixing a regressing gen with one frame of repair is too.
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@altruistic said:
It’s used in 86%+ of games at R1.
You’re not going to get any traction here since so many people crutch on the perk.
Don’t worry though. Self Care was used by 80%+ of Survivors at one point. This made them all scream “OP!!!! Please nerf!!!!”
80%+ of Killers use Ruin? They need it. /s
Are you against Killers using Ruin or for it? I feel like it's used so much cause it's needed. I hate the perk, and it isn't even all that good... but its necessary at higher ranks.
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It's kinda loud yea, but I'm pretty sure the Devs have said it's supposed to be. I could be wrong, and it does mess me up in chases. But the main thing it does is make me jump when I don't see the Survivor first.
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This was mostly a joke, after looking at the forums.
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The hell are you expecting to catch with that much bait? Godzilla?
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No.
Toolboxes already do there job too well.
Keys are.... just no.
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Trapper. Got really good with his traps and finding new places to put them. I still use him when I want to hear that wonderful SNAP!
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Expected? By some, whine that you are entitled to 4ks. Others, for you to start your game and walk away from the computer. My advice? Just play the game and "gg" then leave.
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@ArrowTheGreat11 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/679409#Comment_679409
Fine as it is? Killers will just sit there and wait out the 60 seconds before they pick you up again. The timer needs to be stopped when a killer is in terror radius so they don’t slug
Sure. Why don't I stand with my face in a corner and walk away from my computer while I'm at it?
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Legion before the rework. No, not cause of the exploit or anything stupid like that. I liked running around and stabbing everyone. Now a days I still play Legion but they are NO WHERE near as fun as they used to be. They need help, and did back then. Not the massive nerf they got.
Lately though, Ghost Face and Plague. Looking forward to Demo too.
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@[Deleted User] said:
Ummm.... Follow behind the killer with a key, and open the hatch after he/she closes it. They will lead you right to the hatch in 90% of games, it's awesome.
also, I hate keys.
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@Peanits said:
It's definitely not meant to be fair. At that point, the survivors have failed to finish the generators and failed to find the hatch first. The EGC is meant to end the game at that point, not give you a 50/50 chance of escaping. If anything, it would be unfair to the killer to give the survivor an even chance at escaping after they've beaten the survivor multiple times by that point.
This is really all that needed to be said.
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@Peanits said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/679594#Comment_679594
I wouldn't say that they're OP or useless, I would at most say that they're unnecessary. Having it disable when another survivor is hooked is great on paper, but that just means that if I have two slugged, I can hook them both back to back and then return to tunnel the first guy freely. Having it disable in lockers also seems unnecessary to me. If the goal is to punish the killer for tunneling, being "safe" in a locker doesn't seem unfair.
I would, however, say that this would be way too many conditions for one perk. Imagine having to put all of this into the perk description. It would be a novel.
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@brokedownpalace said:
I'm just amazed at how many people are saying "swing overable" in this thread.
Honestly it's kinda fun to say.
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Huh.... well thank you. I'll give it a try next time. I did also notice I could hit people on the haybale thats right under the vault point of the Harvesters. Man, that Loop is annoying. I always feel like I am gonna lose time there.
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They are? They must have changed it then cause last time I played on that map and tried it I bounced off. DO you have to aim higher or something? I still see people getting looped around the fences, people like Tru3, so I figured it was still the same.
@indieeden7 said:
They are swing overable
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@ad19970 said:
I persoally still think the best way to balance this game is to give survivors certain aura reading buffs so that survivors in general get the information that only swf survivors get at the moment, and then balance all killers around that. It seems like the only proper way to do it. Voice chat in the game wouldn't work cause many wouldn't want to use it, for obvious reasons, and communication with strangers can always be harder than with friends.
And nerfing swf survivors, well that just won't work. That will just drive away survivor players that like to play swf.
All of this seems good. I am not calling to nerf SWF btw. Just wondering what could be done.
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@Zender said:
Give the killers three friends that can spectate the match fly around little invisible eyes and report back to the killer:
"he's going for your hex"
"two survivors on gen near shack"
I mean, you arn't wrong.
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Cause Swf makes it hard to balance.
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Legion I think.
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@Mtom912 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/671697#Comment_671697
he also overcommitted in his first chase, and applied 0 gen pressure to the other 3 survivors, he’s not a undefeatable robot, just because he did something badly in a game doesn’t mean something is broken
This is true, but he does mention it in alot of his videos. I think this was the the most obvious.
@chieftaco said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/671716#Comment_671716
my post was in response to someone who's constructive feedback was simply
"there you have it, the most awesome guy in dbd ever gives lots of proof why you should change stuff and you're still not going to change it.." (paraphrased)
Yes, I know. But it's still true.
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@chieftaco said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/671697#Comment_671697
just because a person or a group has a high opinion of someone doesn't make them infallible.
all proof tendered is reflective of those particular experiences.
generators having the ability to be completed as fast as they do doesn't make that the intended way to play the game, or even fun at all.
when game play experience is modified to reflect only a group of users there are usually many more groups of users who don't agree at all, based on their own experiences.
i hear popular people say weird stuff and give evidence of bad opinions quite frequently is all i'm saying.
Honestly with SWF and everything else, even the ranking system and asymmetrical nature of this game.... this game must be a NIGHTMARE to balance. That's why we need to give constructive feedback to help. Not just trolling and whining.
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@chieftaco said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/671675#Comment_671675
"Ruin normally works for me... for about 1 minute or less."
---> exactly! this is why it is very important to milk as much free cooperative objective out of it as you can.. it could end at any moment and you never know when or if you'll get another chance at cooperative anything, so given the chance to max a category right quick cooperatively there shouldn't even be a decision to make.. even maxing it solo is a good thing because who knows if you'll get another chance to get more objective later.
as for stopping the regressing generator, i'd rather it regressed so we could do that little bit of progress together again, all over, super quickly, unless we're at the point in the game where everyone has objectives maxed. even if i have my objectives maxed, you may not and i'd happily redo the little gen progress with you so you can get cooperative points as well while you try to top it off..
again if a team in your game is stopping regression and rushing objectives, it's just a whammy lobby, not your fault.. let the weirdos go and let them giggle about whatever and just lobby up again and hope for a better team next time..
I meant as Killer, but I get what you are saying.
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@ImKateDenson said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/671670#Comment_671670
You want to play the game and have fun ? Do so what’s the problem you can even have fun with 0 kill or dying. Then your answers are useless to the discussions here sooo you know su? And last I don’t waste my mental sanity to look all ppl complaining in the forum xD
Yep troll. You are useless. Go bait elsewhere.
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@AshleyWB said:
Solo Survivors with no mic will be DC's On if you add coms
Who doesn't have a mic now a days?
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@chieftaco said:
@UlvenDagoth actually, it had everything to do with what you said, and OP which was making an argument for why gens need to take more time to complete.
i explained why the gen completion time is actually balanced perfectly for solo survivor play and making them take longer would not be beneficial in the slightest, but a bad thing. it would ensure more people die on first hook than already do, and no matter how you look at it that's a bad thing, not a good thing.
also i quoted that post because i was going to agree with the "gen tapping being stupid" thing and elaborate a little bit, but i forgot to so i'll do that now..
generator progress is generator progress, period. regressing generator progress does nothing more than allow you to make that much more generator progress. especially in scenarios where there are multiple people on a generator, that allows you to make that much more "cooperative generator progress" which is pretty sweet.
if you regress a generator the equivalent of 100% while hitting good skill checks with other survivors, you've just been given the opportunity to make the equivalent of doing 2 full generators, cooperatively. that's really good. it's mega points all around and really doesn't take that long to do.
a couple of a-hats tapping the generator together are making very little gain for time invested, look super dumb, and cost each other tons of points. if i'm on that generator as well, not tapping it, then really you're doing about 1/8th or less of what i'm doing and costing me a ton of cooperative points as well. thanks geniuses lol.
ruin is a gift when killers bring it because it allows you to quickly and easily max scoring categories if you don't pretend to be a pigeon and just peck at things to show off your skills :)
Okay, now I see why you quoted it. Thank you. Though perhaps I used the wrong term. What I meant was the fact that if a gen is regressing all a survivor has to do to stop it is do one frame of fixing.
Ruin normally works for me... for about 1 minute or less.