UlvenDagoth
UlvenDagoth
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@HatCreature said:
I made a Legion rework a while ago that some people enjoyed so I'll put it here, it isn't a complete rework.
When Legion starts the match they are Undetectable and cannot attack. Upon activating their Primary Ability, Legion, they receive their Terror Radius, Red Stain, and can attack normally. Legion can go to a Locker on the map and activate Legion to switch to a different member and receive the Undetectable status and be unable to attack once more. This can activated 4 times as there are 4 members and once you cycle through them activating each member you will be unable to have these effects back but can always change members.
Legion's Secondary Ability is Feral Frenzy. While in FF you run at 130% movement speed, can Vault Windows and Pallets, and hit Survivors, upon entering FF you scream in a rage notifying all Survivors. You are unable to down Survivors while in FF, whenever you hit a Survivor you recharge your power and are able to see the Auras of Survivors within your TR. If you manually end your power or it runs out your movement speed will be considerably decreased and your lunge is reduced for 2 seconds.
Add-ons will increase Duration of FF, add in effects for stabbing with FF, increasing the amount of times you activate Legion and become Undetectable.
Frank's Mix Tape---''Frank's heavy metal beats drown out what Survivors need to hear to survive'' Survivors are unable to hear you activate Feral Frenzy.
Stab Wounds Study---''Reading this thrilling study awakens a deadly ability'' When you stab a Survivor in FF you no longer see Auras but instead see Killer Instinct.
MY THOUGHTS
Basically this turns Legion from a slowdown Killer into a semi-stealthy Killer who uses their ability to track and move around the map with ease. By seeing Auras you give your own perk Iron Maiden actual synergy with your power as naturally Survivors will hear you activate FF and know to hide in a locker to avoid being seen, therefore Iron Maiden picks up the slack as an anti-counter.
Legion's stun is replaced with an out of breathe state as you don't scream when you're done you gasp as you're out of breath and that's why you move slower and hit shorter. I got this idea from The Oni as that's what happens when his Bloody Fury ends which is much more powerful than this.
Legion's formerly best add-ons will once again be top tier as both of them give Legion the edge in what will be his newest biggest flaw, Survivors knowing he's in FF. Frank's MT will stop Survivors from hearing you're in it and when they hear your TR they will naturally think you're just walking. Stab Wounds will instead give you back Killer Instinct so you can see Survivors hiding in lockers.
POSSIBLE ALTERNATE FORM OF FF
I don't know if this would be better but what if----To activate FF you have to hold down the power button and then it has a set amount of time you can use it similar to Hillbilly. When you strike a Survivor it does NOT recharge the power. If Legion's FF was similar to Hillbilly's power then it would be more reliable to use for traveling instead of injuring as you can just hold down the button and then full speed ahead. The downside comes from no recharge on hit but it is still fair since the ability can only injure.
I like this idea! I'm starting to like anything that gets rid of Deep Wounds on Feral Frenzy honestly. Deep Wounds is the main issue with Feral Frenzy in my eyes. It's so stupid to tie it onto Feral Frenzy, cause it makes it either BROKEN or useless. Deep Wounds is so nonthreatening it's ridiculous OR it's broken in half.
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@GodNap said:
Delete feral frenzy. I was legion main but his ability can't be balanced really. Use that mob reality or whatever it is and make legion great again.
@BunnyTheHutt said:
Honestly the only way too fix legion is just a full on rework like Freddy. His power will either be too strong and uncounterable like Old Legion, or really weak and pathetic like New Legion. I can't see a way for him too be balanced without an entire overhaul.
@Frosty said:
I'm still in love with the mob mentality idea, I think that alone would make the Legion more appealing. Let's hope the devs can and do pull from this feed back of they go back and touch Legion.
EXACTLY what i realized with the new patch coming out! They need something better! I have Mob Mentality at the top of the list for that EXACT reason.
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@Liruliniel said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/870818#Comment_870818
Hey your back WB
Hey! Good to be back!
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I got Legion (who would have guessed) and i'm working on Jeff!
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@TragicSolitude said:
One of my big things is I don't want to be punished for whiffing during Feral Frenzy. FF is a non-lethal ability, anyway, so there's really no reason to have it be so strict. It's really punishing on console. If necessary, they could have a missed attack cooldown, but stunning yourself and losing FF because of a whiff is horrible design.
I agree! Even on PC servers and auto aim really really screws you outta alot of hits.
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@Deadeye said:
I didn't read the complete thread yet, will catch up with it. But I didn't find mentions with quick search so: To make Bleed out a bit more of a threat, I would make it block any interactions like madness tier 3 does. I also think this change wouldn't nerf BT too much (unfortunately you always have to consider that because the same effect is applied to a beneficial survivor perk as well as to a threatening killer power...)
edit darn, found it in the main post XD but I let this in for the example below to underline my statement :D
Example what I did just recently that shows how unscary Frenzy is at the moment: I was working on a gen in a map's main building with someone else. Legion came in, frenzy hit me, running for the second. I was on my way out and noticed Legion stopped to kick the gen while in Frenzy. I rushed back, waiting for the kick to finish and tap the gen again. Legion noticed and came back. I waited at the gen to see if it gets kicked again to tap it again but Frenzy was cancelled, then I jumped through a window, leaving a 4-second-stunned Legion behind the window. So instead of a regressing gen and 2 injured survivors and being in chase with one of them, Legion was left out of a chase (or at least with quite some distance) with a non-regressing gen and just one injured survivor, just because I knew I'm save as long as Frenzy is active o.O
EXACTLY! Feral Frenzy is either broken or useless. As it is right now, it's fricken useless. It needs to be changed. Your example shows that perfectly.
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Peanits Dev∙Community Manager › Dev, Community Manager Posts: 4,382
November 25 edited November 25
I feel like I really need to stress this line from that post:
PLEASE KEEP IN MIND THAT NUMBERS ARE NOT EVERYTHING; THERE ARE A WHOLE BUNCH OF FACTORS THAT COULD INFLUENCE THESE NUMBERS.
To use the Spirit as an example, as we've mentioned many times before, we do not balance based on stats alone. We make sure to do our research first and there's a lot of compelling arguments for why she should have been changed.
And again, there's a bunch of different factors involved. Is Freddy overpowered, or is it just a combination of perks and add-ons that make him that strong? These are all things that need to be considered.
So just to reiterate one last time, I really would not recommend drawing any conclusions from these stats. These are averages, not specific and incredibly detailed data that you should draw any conclusions from.
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I think a robotic Killer would be nice.... but not FNAF. It's really really over done at this point.
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@Sleephartha said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/870809#Comment_870809
Ok. Hopefully this puts an end to our side discussion;
The part about people being more accurate applied to everyone, including you. Everything after that, about people sniping and saying I’m misusing statistics etc... was not about you. It was about those other people sniping and adding nothing substantive. I hope that’s clear. All I said that related to you specifically was about being more exact.
As to your points:
Lumping platforms together. It would be nice to see the difference but don’t see this as mattering. What would we see? One format even worse and one not as bad? Still basically the same issue.
It gives no detail/it is very broad. It doesn’t need to. Those results are granular enough. How many kills per game average. That’s good info.
Theres no real data to think logically from / doesn’t show afk etc...
Again, yes there is data to think logically about and as long as we know dc matches aren’t included I do not see that afks etc would have any significant impact. Again... the facts are the kill rates. They average 75% per game. It’s pretty clear. Just for the heck of it, imagine the kill rates were even higher. What if they said spirit kill rates are 95%... but please don’t draw conclusions. Do we really just IGNORE that stat? Oh, uh maybe there are a lot of afks... give me a break. Those facts are enough to see there’s a problem.
I think at this point it's best to just say we agree to disagree. We are being told not to draw conclusions based on the data, and it's broad enough to me that It means little to nothing. It's pointless numbers that are only gonna fuel people, like you, to jump to the same conclusions we are told not to jump too. It's gonna fuel the more vocal minority of Survivors (and Killers) To flood the forums with posts like this to "Prove a point." Personally, I don't care. I want to play the game for fun and not get insulted every step of the way. That and a Legion rework is all I care about at this point. But drawing the conclusion that "This game is Killer sided!" off the pathetic data we were given, and then being insulting and toxic to the people that disagree with you is probably the worst way to make your point. I'm sure there is hours of footage you could watch that shows Killers struggling to get anything done, and in fact I could provide you with some if I thought that you would really take any of it to heart. I hope you have fun in the Fog and have a good day.
Oh and one thing I saw earlier you didn't reply too that someone posted.
A list of factors that the stats provided do not show or take into account:
- Perks used
- Rank of Killer and Survivors
- What exactly "High Rank" is
- Add-ons used
- Whether the Killer piped or not
- Whether there was a SWF group present or not
- What map the match was being played on
- How familiar the player is with a particular Killer
- What items the Survivors have taken
- What events are currently running
- And many more
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HELLO! The Fanatical Legion main here to tell you.... LEGION NEEDS A REWORK!
Feral frenzy is silly hard to balance I've realized so they need to get rid of it. It's either gonna be useless or BROKEN IN HALF.
Come by here for some ideas and toss your own in there!
PLEASE DEVS! REWORK LEGION INTO SOMETHING GOOD LIKE YOU DID FREDDY!
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@NMCKE said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/870772#Comment_870772
I would also like to see the mend time nerf get reverted, and have a penalty if you're Deep Wounded while in the injured state.
I was thinking it takes 10%/20%/30%/40%/50% longer for the survivor to mend depending on how many times in a row they were put into Deep Wounds from the injured state.
Getting Deep Wounded from the healthy state won't have a penalty.
makes sense to me. Either that or put a decrease on action speed OTHER THAN MENDING. Bleeding out shouldn't be non-threatening.
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@Liruliniel said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/632189#Comment_632189
My friends a clown main and she does ok.
The problem with people who specifically main a certain killer is the fact they know the limits to that specific killer better then someone who just uses them occasionally. The logic they use is not of our own. I dont mean the people who play 3 or 4 different killers and main them all. I mean the ones who specifically play that one over and over until they could 4k perkless and addonless.
Either way that build has too many inconsistencies to be good.
Like me and Legion.
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Makes sense over all. It would need some intense testing.
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@TragicSolitude said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/870431#Comment_870431
Welcome back!
Looping is just such a stupid mechanic. I can't be mad at survivors for doing it, I kinda do it too (badly, but I try) when I play survivor, because what other choice is there? But it's dumb that the game has basically evolved so that a large focus of the gameplay is survivors running in circles around piles of junk and getting away with it because it turns out every killer's weakness is their fat ass and a knee-high box.
Yep. You basically just said what I was getting at. The game went from "Oh no! This Killer is gonna get me!" to "OH hey, a Killer, time to turn around this box or wall for a while."
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@Sleephartha said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/870706#Comment_870706
I’m sorry if you think I insulted you but I didn’t. I did however call out all the loose and inaccurate language in the thread of which you were also guilty. He never said the data was useless. And again, I think for myself. I deal with large data sets all day long. I probably would also recommend that people not versed in dealing with large data sets try to draw conclusions from this data. But I’m comfortable doing so. The data is accurate, and the data does support my point.
You need to understand, an “authority” saying not to draw conclusions from data shouldn’t stop anyone from thinking logically about the data. If someone presents me with solid reasons why this data doesn’t support my arguments, then I’ll listen.
Okay, solid reasons:
It lumps all platforms together.
It gives no detail.
It is very broad and doesn't show anything that can be used to make an accurate conclusion from.
There is no real data to "Think Logically" from. There is Pick rate and Kill rate. That's it. That's all. It's not saying what other factors are in the match or anything.
Peanits isn't just "an authority" he's a Dev and a Community Manager. I'm pretty sure he'd know. He's saying "Don't draw conclusions from the numbers." Which is EXACTLY what you are doing.
It doesn't even show if anyone was AFK, Hook suicides or DC'ed. All of those things would effect the Kill rate.
And yes, you did insult me. I, in fact, see Mandy changed your post. You implied I was not an adult or had no idea what I was talking about or both. I assure you, I do and am likely older than you think. If you are comfortable drawing conclusions from data with no real detail or merit, then please also be comfortable with someone disagreeing with what in the end is your own judgement based on a loose collection of numbers.
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@Usui said:
This all stems from the frustrations of solo survivor, you'll never understand unless you ONLY play solo.
Oddly, I play only solo.
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@Orchid said:
For me it has to be legion's wooden ruler. That thing looks so evil to me. Just the thought of getting stabbed with that is horrifying. Just think about the splinters that remain in the wound afterwards. It s design is genius, it is almost like you can feel it in your back after stabbing a survivor.
What is yours?
This one! For sure! If I had to pick another though... hmm...
Or that right there. Doctor has some lovely beat sticks.
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@TheRockstarKnight said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/870729#Comment_870729
Exactly! Given how nonlethal their power currently is, I don't see why it couldn't work like that.
The only addons you'd *need* to change would be the duration set; and those could just increase movement speed while Frenzying instead.
It's not exactly a complicated or super cool idea, but I hope that'd also make it fairly easy to implement.
And no problem, I'm just glad the most outspoken and chill pro-Legion person around here is back!
Thank you again! I really like your idea and hope it gets seen! Like i said a moment ago, it would be a good band-aid fix. I really think they might need to change Feral Frenzy, just cause it's so hard to balance right. It's either OP or worthless!
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@NMCKE said:
I skimmed through everything and I had a few ideas to make Legion more viable while not putting survivors on a timer. I'm going to modify your number 6 idea, so tell me what you think!
- Survivors cannot cancel the mend action.
- Survivors cannot see their Deep Wound timer, just a Deep Wound bar to indicate that someone (or themselves) is in Deep Wounds.
- All killers can see the survivor's Deep Wound timer.
- Deep Wound timer pauses when a survivor is within 24 meters to the killer.
- Deep Wound timer will always deplete when the survivor is performing an action that has a progress bar (exception: Mending).
Basically, this makes Deep Wounds more dangerous if you don't take the status effect seriously by NOT hiding and mending your wounds. The timer cannot be abused by the killer because the survivor can pause it by mending or remaining within 24 meters to the killer. Therefore, the killer can't use the timer as a tracking device because they don't know what the survivor is doing to pause it. The survivor cannot see their Deep Wound timer, so they can't use it to track the killer with a persudo Whispers.
What do you think? 🤗😁
I like it! It would be a good ban-aid fix while we wait for something better than Feral Frenzy. The more i've seen them trying to balance Feral Frenzy, the more I realize it's hard as hell to do.
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@NMCKE said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/870726#Comment_870726
I'm really happy you didn't just say OP then leave me with unconstructive feedback! 🤗😁
I'm only worried about Sole Survivor, I think it might be a tad bit too good. 🤔
Anything that makes you completely invisible seems a tad much yea. Gates also always seem to be very fast in general, but maybe that's just my view on them.
Out of the two, I like Left Behind alot.
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@Almo said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/870466#Comment_870466
The contention was, "Killers are not in control above rank 10". This is not true. The many Killer streamers who are in control are counter-examples. This is also does not appear to be true according to the statistics that show Killers averaging 75% kill rate at high rank.
Stats that Peanits have said you shouldn't draw any conclusions on. So which is it? Do we listen to the stats that are broad and have no detail or dismiss them as Peanits suggests?
Also, once again, you are picking one of THE BEST streamers of Dead By Daylight. I don't think that's fair to the average player.
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@TheRockstarKnight said:
Happy to see you back UlvenDagoth. :)
Personally I feel like Legion would be much more enjoyable with just a permanent Feral Frenzy.
Hear me out; a Legion cannot down a Survivor while in Feral Frenzy. There's nothing they can do to pressure a Survivor while nearby and in Feral Frenzy.
Exiting Feral Frenzy stuns the Legion longer than a pallet stun. Anyone who drops a pallet on a Feral Frenzying Legion is a goober; the Legion has to do worse than that to themselves anyway in order to actually down someone.
Feral Frenzy also instantly ends on a missed attack, prevents seeing blood or scratchmarks, and cancels all aura reading while Killer Instinct is active.
With all these penalties the power could easily not be on a timer and not be overly oppressive. IMO it would finally give the Legion the ability to do what they are supposed to do: hit multiple Survivors quickly and pressure them into mending while they chase one Survivor as an M1 Killer.
Most games it's very difficult to actually hit multiple Survivors. People spread out vs Legion to deny them their power.
With a permanent FF the Legion would at least always have the option to use their power how it's supposed to be used, instead of injuring one person quickly and then just stunning themselves because they only get 10 seconds of power, sans addons.
Legion needs a full rework. Stuff like Mob Mentality. But a rework like that could also take years to see the light of day.
I think changing their addons up to be more interesting and unique, making Feral Frenzy permanent, and giving them more unique audio cues for Survivors (stuff like GF's Marked music for people effected by Killer Instinct) would be a great way to try and make them more fun until a full rework can be done.
Ohhhh... so like an ON/OFF switch for there power? That's an interesting Idea! I kinda like it, and it would make some of the useless add-ons change.AND Good to be back! Thank you!
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Interesting! I'll have to think about it before giving any feedback!
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and now some input from @Volfawott
I would like to see them get some of rework to see that power makes the become more impactful the only thing I like about it currently is vaulting pallets.
If that's not the case then these will be some suggestions
Blood
Revert the blood-stained restriction moonwalk exploit is no longer a thing there is no need to have this.
Killer instinct
Can we have the orange outline back for killer instinct the pulsing in the corn is not helpful I have no clue where it was removed in the first place.
Missed attacks
With the restriction that you need a full bar to activate frenzy again there's no point in having a missed swing completely delete the bar but it can still cancel you out of frenzy but have it either cancel you out and half your current progression or just cancel you out of it and keep the remaining progression.
Double tapping
Have an incentive for double tapping a survivor ( no the add-ons don't count)
Firstly they're are add-ons the incentive should be baseline second the benefits they give aren't worth the add-on slot.
Pins: blindness, pseudo sloppy Butcher and even broken are not worth the amount of extra time I waste double tapping you then chasing you with a distance advantage on your side when I could just cancel my power and down you normally
Frank's mixtape: There is very little point in smacking someone with this if you're just going to chase them anyway. ( At least with the pins you can make the excuse of activating the condition and leaving to do something else)
Also considering all the things that will pause the timer it's unlikely you'll ever going to run into a survivor who is just about collapse from Deep wounds
As I said before you waste more time giving them a speed boost whilst going into fatigue then having to catch up and initiate the actual chase than you would if you just cancelled out frenzy and initiate the chase without the speed boost from the second frenzy hit.
So Bassline they need something to incentivise a choice between cancelling a frenzy and risking the double tap.
Add-ons
I've already made posts and comments about their add-ons before so I don't feel like fully going into it again.
However
Fuming mixtape
Frank's mixtape
Stab wounds study
These need to be reworked they don't really work that well with the new kit
Get rid of all the add-ons that increase the killer instinct detection range and just replace increasing movement speed again. If I wanted a larger detection range I could just bring monitor and abuse or distressing
Also if a survivor starts running in advance you're not going to hit them so the last thing I need to do is just see more survivors I won't hit.
Make the pins either proc better effects or just have them proc on the first frenzy hit not the second I've spoken above about how ineffective double tapping is.
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some perk rework ideas from @StarMoral
Discordance: Reverse the times per rank.
When 2 or more survivors are working on the same generator, the gen is highlighted and you are notified every 12/10/8 seconds.
Mad Grit: Meme Perk, go have some fun with it. I got no ideas.
Iron Maiden: Make faster opening baseline, extend Exposed, survivors scream AND have their aura shown.
You open locker 50% faster
When a survivor exits the locker, they scream, revealing their location for 3 seconds, and their aura is shown for 3/4/5 seconds.
They also suffer from the Exposed status effect for 40/50/60 seconds.
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and now an Idea from @KillermainBTWm8 !
- Take away the idiotic thing where you can't see blood and scratchies in FF
- Take away the punishment for missing you can have a short speed reduction or something for missing. The power isn't a lethal power so it shouldn't be punished so harshly for a mistake
- Increase FF movement speed on vaults and just in general it's way to slow currently in my opinion
- Mending needs some benefit other than making people hold m1 for longer. I'm not saying bring moonwalk back but it needs some benefit
- Reduce his TR back to 24
- Make some of his add-ons useful. Not old franks mixtape level but they need to be better
- Let him be able to toggle his power whenever again and not be restricted by a CD
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@Sleephartha said:
Nevermind. I got the quote. And he doesn’t say it’s useless. It’s more like he’s saying it’s complicated. Here’s another example of a broad complicated statistic: Women make .78 for every dollar a man makes. (No pun intended).
Yeah, it’s hard to draw direct correlations to the reasons, but we can still get the picture of how this situation can be the reality. Would you just ignore what that statistic is telling you even though you can’t nail down the exact reasons? This isn’t that complicated. And It would be great if people would be more accurate with what they say on here and/or just not post if they have nothing of value or interest to say. Sniping that I’m misusing statistics when I’m pretty sure you wouldn’t know a z score from a z bra is just tedious. Say something intelligent or just leave the conversation to the adults.
Peanits Dev∙Community Manager › Dev, Community Manager Posts: 4,382
November 25 edited November 25
I feel like I really need to stress this line from that post:
PLEASE KEEP IN MIND THAT NUMBERS ARE NOT EVERYTHING; THERE ARE A WHOLE BUNCH OF FACTORS THAT COULD INFLUENCE THESE NUMBERS.
To use the Spirit as an example, as we've mentioned many times before, we do not balance based on stats alone. We make sure to do our research first and there's a lot of compelling arguments for why she should have been changed.
And again, there's a bunch of different factors involved. Is Freddy overpowered, or is it just a combination of perks and add-ons that make him that strong? These are all things that need to be considered.
So just to reiterate one last time, I really would not recommend drawing any conclusions from these stats. These are averages, not specific and incredibly detailed data that you should draw any conclusions from.
I'm not even gonna take into account that you felt the need to insult me. But here you go. Have a better quote. I don't know what you want other than that. A Dev is saying not to use the data for conclusions. Sorry they arn't supporting your point.
Also, a z-score is the number of standard deviations from the mean a data point is.
and you forgot the "E" in Zebra.
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@Usui said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/870361#Comment_870361
constructive lol, you want survivors to tell you how to play better?
Naw, but it would be nice to have a civil talk some time.
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Clown, or Doctor. The sheer detail in Clown's and the level of commitment the Doctor has to his experiments.... think about that for a bit and you will freak yourself out.
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@Sleephartha said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/870593#Comment_870593
And I disagree with your characterization of the devs view of their own official data which they released to the community.
Um, that was a direct quote from Peanits. I'm not characterizing. I'm showing you a direct quote.
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@Sleephartha said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/870373#Comment_870373
No offense, but you’re not discussing the matter at hand which is the data. I can agree that killer takes more work (though I highly doubt your dubious statistic of 12 times harder). And yeah, killer is supposed to be the “power role”. But what does that have to do with the fact that the data shows that red rank killers have 75% kill rates? We’re discussing game balance, aka whether both sides have the same opportunity to “win”. Not how hard it is to play one role or other.
i think the closest I’ve gotten to understanding this data is that killers lose a higher % of games vs legit red ranks thus they feel like survivors that are their rank are OP. But regardless, they are clearly still winning a large number of games overall.
And the closest I’ve come to understanding why this data might not be relevant to game balance is that the devs consider getting a pip / ranking up to be the equivalent of a win. Thus a killer can get 4k and the survivors still get pips and everyone “wins”. Survivor pipping is easier to make up for the fact that killers will likely kill you (75% kill rate). Thus the non equivalence at higher ranks (boosted survivors in red ranks). But there will be legit red rank survivors as well which can beat a killer but the quantity of these is overstated and killers complaints are really based on % of defeats from these legit survivors vs quantity.
The devs themselves have said the Data is useless. I showed that a moment ago.
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@Creepingcam1070 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/870530#Comment_870530
Yea I was a little sad to see that the data is almost useless, because I want them to be performing well.
same
*Cries in Legion main*
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@Creepingcam1070 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/870241#Comment_870241
That's exactly what I meant, TBH I was expecting them to be close bottom of the list, but was pleasantly surprised they were not near the lower parts, and this is coming from a Legion main.
Sadly (from another Legion main pushing to get buffs for them over in Feedback again) the data is useless. See my example from Peanits earlier.
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Peanits Dev∙Community Manager › Dev, Community Manager Posts: 4,382
You'll have to forgive me since I don't have time to read through the whole thing right now, but:
I only thought I'd address this now that I finally have the PROOF that Demo is not a powerful killer. As per the stats released, at red ranks, Demo fairs very poorly, having the SECOND LOWEST kill rate in the game, just barely above The Clown.
We said it in the stats post and I'll say it again here, you should not draw conclusions from those stats. They are about as broad as they get. They don't show details and account for any amount of factors. To give an example, he's just barely below the Nurse and the Huntress, two fairly powerful killers. Are they bad too? I feel like most people would say no, they just have a learning curve and there's a lot of people who don't regularly play them will pull those numbers down.
The Demogorgon is in the same boat. His shred attack takes some practice to use well (timing, aiming) much like the Huntress. In the right hands, he can still do well.
When a Dev straight up tells you it's useless, the data is useless.
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Then people will rush the hook to keep the Killer there and stop the struggle timer.
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"Boring" is the new thing to say when you get beat or when you think something is too strong. It's kinda silly. If Killers didn't feel forced to run all the slowdown perks they can, it might be more exciting for everyone. DCing should be punished, cause you are screwing over everyone in the match cause you "Don't want to deal with it" or "it's Boring". PVE game? I could understand that. PVP game? Play the game for your team, or at the least your own pride.
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@StevePerryPsychOut said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/868071#Comment_868071
At red ranks most killers are hovering around 70% kill rate. I really don't want you take offense at this, but perhaps you're making minor mistakes that most red rank killers just aren't.
Peanits Dev∙Community Manager › Dev, Community Manager Posts: 4,382
You'll have to forgive me since I don't have time to read through the whole thing right now, but:
I only thought I'd address this now that I finally have the PROOF that Demo is not a powerful killer. As per the stats released, at red ranks, Demo fairs very poorly, having the SECOND LOWEST kill rate in the game, just barely above The Clown.
We said it in the stats post and I'll say it again here, you should not draw conclusions from those stats. They are about as broad as they get. They don't show details and account for any amount of factors. To give an example, he's just barely below the Nurse and the Huntress, two fairly powerful killers. Are they bad too? I feel like most people would say no, they just have a learning curve and there's a lot of people who don't regularly play them will pull those numbers down.
The Demogorgon is in the same boat. His shred attack takes some practice to use well (timing, aiming) much like the Huntress. In the right hands, he can still do well.
Example of why you shouldn't judge based on stats.
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Cause Tru3
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Peanits Dev∙Community Manager › Dev, Community Manager Posts: 4,382
You'll have to forgive me since I don't have time to read through the whole thing right now, but:
I only thought I'd address this now that I finally have the PROOF that Demo is not a powerful killer. As per the stats released, at red ranks, Demo fairs very poorly, having the SECOND LOWEST kill rate in the game, just barely above The Clown.
We said it in the stats post and I'll say it again here, you should not draw conclusions from those stats. They are about as broad as they get. They don't show details and account for any amount of factors. To give an example, he's just barely below the Nurse and the Huntress, two fairly powerful killers. Are they bad too? I feel like most people would say no, they just have a learning curve and there's a lot of people who don't regularly play them will pull those numbers down.
The Demogorgon is in the same boat. His shred attack takes some practice to use well (timing, aiming) much like the Huntress. In the right hands, he can still do well.
Found an example of Peanits saying "Hey guys, don't judge things on the stats."
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*cries in Legion main, But you right*
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@terumisan said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/869217#Comment_869217
But it's still an injure thought it works
Will not work after the patch.
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@Almo said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/868657#Comment_868657
I think Fungoose might disagree with you there. :)
Fungoose is also one of the best and most knowledgeable streamers out there for DBD. I don't think you can compare his games to most average games Almo.
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@Almo said:
What usually happens with SWF is that they get super-altruistic and refuse to leave the match unless they can get everyone out. Only at very high ranks and with SWFs that play together a lot is there much of a benefit in terms of escape rate.
That does not mean we don't want to do some things to make the solo experience better. As someone else pointed out, that's the reason for the Kindred buff.
Perhaps escape rate isn't the right metric, as SWFs can be more annoying to play against even if they don't necessarily escape.
Yeah it's not just the escape metric, it's just... As a Killer you are alone against a team of 4 who could all be on comms and talking to each other, relaying info and all. It makes it rather hard to feel like that you are having any impact on the match when that kinda thing happens.
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They just made Balanced Landing and actual Exhaustion perk is all. It's like them changing Legion's Frenzy to not be basic attacks for perks. They are making things more consistent. Also, strong doesn't equal broken. There was a good reason why Killers AFK'ed or left those maps. Also Medkits heal others faster now... so im not sure where you are going with that. Insta heals were broken too, even Peanits said that.
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@DeKillerKiller said:
Welcome back!
I have a theory why the devs nerfed Legion this patch. It's because you weren't around.
Maybe! Gotta get that love flowing for Legion again!
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@MongByeolBuddies said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/870381#Comment_870381
Well, if there's anyone who can do it, it's you. With the upcoming changes, Legion needs help more than ever.
Yeah! I get why they did it, but it still sucks. The Pallet vault is SEXY but it's not enough to counter act taking away so many perks that were what Legion was able to take advantage of! I need to play them more when they get released (cause last PTB was so bad) But i'm not confident it will get better with use.
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I think it's cause of the time crunch of playing Killer and well... you are a Killer, It's really annoying to not be able to get your target cause they went behind a broken fence or something like that. It's not against the person doing it (Unless they are abusing well known "God Loops") but it's just a natural thing of "I should be in control here, not chasing this guy around a box."
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@TragicSolitude said:
I think it's because they can lose so much time to one person looping. It's frustrating for the killer, and the survivor is the only one they can take that frustration out on.
Personally, I just find looping boring. If a survivor goes to a second loop, I ditch. I've had survivors message me that their match was boring 'cause I didn't chase them, but whatever, not my problem. I need to pressure gens (or if the match is really unfun, go afk and get a snack); I don't have time to run in circles.
Hey again! Good to see you being as reasonable as ever!
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@Auron471 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/870374#Comment_870374
welcome back daddy
Thank ya! I just hope we can get the ideas flowing in here again!
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@Walker said:
Honestly, as 2k hours survivor main, I absolutely and completely agree with this post and also empathize with your anger about it. While it's obviously not true of everyone, since I usually play solo queue I have to say that a relevant amount of the survivors I get matched with turn out to be... well, as you put it, people who just need to chill.
People who want to impose (inexistent) rules on others, who complain whenever they lose – accusing the killer for a variety of their own mistakes, who DC if they get caught first, who blame the killer for not playing "nice" after someone DCs (it's cool if they do, but they don't have to and you shouldn't be entitlted and expect them to), who call a killer toxic for camping during the match (not realizing it usually works out in the survivors favor), who call a killer toxic for camping someone after the gens have been done, etc.
However, I do fear that this is unavoidable. I think most of them are just immature people who would act up anyway, instead of learning to just take the L and move on to the next match.
Do what you must and what you want to do to try kill us, I welcome the challenge. I wish other survivors did as well.
I also agree with some of the sentiments being put out in this thread. Don't engage with these people. They are not worth your time. Just say something to the effect of "gg" in the post-game chat and move on.
I just wanted to say, I like how reasonable you are.