Tsulan
Tsulan
About
- Username
- Tsulan
- Joined
- Visits
- 14,849
- Last Active
Comments
-
As others have pointed out. That's not a bug. Just leave.
-
@Grandpa_Crack_Pipe said:
This would be nice.
You might stop getting insta-unhooked when you run Deliverance.
It sure would be nice.
But then again, survivors ignore kindred all the time.
So yes, while I'd love to have this. I doubt it would change some players behavior.
-
@Pulsar said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3168069#Comment_3168069
Best they can do is Self-Care and Urban
Then it's a skill or even worse a being selfish issue.
We have good healing perks that allow for fast heals. But if people are to stubborn to change their loadouts. Then it's on them. You can't fix bad players.
-
@Pulsar said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3168005#Comment_3168005
yes.
Now my teammates can insist on throwing by healing even slower.
Meh, just take CoH + Botany and/or We'll make it and make high speed heals.
Like, you know... in a team game.
-
@Michi said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3168029#Comment_3168029
I see you keep praising her addons and their diversity. Which is strange to me since my opinion differs 100% on that matter. Can you tell me why you think her addons are that great and,, change the gameplay of this killer".
Explain it with examples please, I have a list already why I think her addons are mostly horrible and boring.
First of all, I'm on the phone right now and won't search for the names of the addons. So I'll just describe them as how I face her as survivor.
I like the addon that doesn't make the triggered trap visible. Because it catches me off guard. When I think I didn't trigger anything.
I also like the addon that makes survivors deaf. Because i have to put in more effort into identifying where she actually is. Especially on indoor maps.
The addon that replaces copies of her, that just block the way is also neat. As blocking some paths requires to rethink where to go. (And before you argue that she could use that to block off the basement, that's exactly what the trapper can do. With the difference that you can Urban Evade above the hags traps.)
The addon that doesn't trigger traps but let's you teleport freely between them across the map. Changes her map presence. Kinda like Demo or Dredge.
I know you're a Hag main and probably have a ton of arguments against those addons. But I find those addons more exiting and game changing than having a 0,2 second increased slowdown, a 0,5 meter longer power range, 4 additional blades, or 0,33 second faster locker animation.
-
@whammigobambam said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3166043#Comment_3166043
Allow us to move on with our lives.
If you aren't inclined to finish a match normally. Then you shouldn't start it in the first place.
Imagine you get constantly matched with teammates that suicide/disconnect on the first down. You would lose all interest in the game pretty quickly.
-
@shiroo said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3166043#Comment_3166043
Make the game balanced, less frustrating and address the core issues that cause all those DCs?
It's fine when it happens once in a while but when we get so many DCs in our games then that most likely means the game has serious issues.
And what are those core issues?
-
@TotemSeeker91 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3166068#Comment_3166068
Pyramid head would like a word about terrible add-ons, lol
Oh yeah, there are definitely a lot of killers with terrible addons out there.
Honestly, I think having addons that just increase the range/duration/amount of uses of a power are bad.
Addons should allow for different playstyles like Myers addons. He isn't a particularly strong killer. But extremely fun to play and verse. When he uses certain addons.
All killers should have something like that. Instead of just range addons.
-
@SpaghettiVase said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3166131#Comment_3166131
No wonder this community is so toxic, you can't please anyone ever.
Toxicity has nothing to do with that.
One side could get all the strong perks and buffs in the world and still be toxic.
-
@ad19970 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3166131#Comment_3166131
Kind of makes sense considering she is just a camping machine that no one enjoys going against.
When people say they want more variety in the killers they face, they don't mean more terrible options that are insufferable to go against.
But is it though? If she was more prevalent or stealth was more popular. Then people would start to take Urban Evation. Which 100% counters her power.
-
@Aven_Fallen said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3166131#Comment_3166131
You would see way more complaints about Hag if she would be more popular to play. But luckily she is also very unfun to play, so despite her being one of the strongest Killers, she is very rare.
You're right. But honestly I wouldn't want a rework for her. Since her (and Myers) addons are something that makes her special. I wish we had more killers with addons that completely change the gameplay of the killer.
-
@VikingDragonXii said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3166240#Comment_3166240
Tsulan I'm ashamed at you....these are the DbD forums it's not a place for civil discussions this is a place for arguments and belittling everyone who doesn't agree with you.....for shame....pfffft
You had me for a split second there.
We can agree or disagree about things on this forum. But that's no reason to take it personally.
Yet some people do. A real shame. Especially since having different points of view makes a discussion interesting.
-
Was the SC nerf really that impactful?
-
@JoByDaylight said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3166216#Comment_3166216
Reminds of a streamer I once saw that played a game of survivor, where a 2-man SWF bullied the F out of the Killer saying EZ in the post game chat. He called them out for it. Next game he queued as Blight and faced the same 2 survivors. Safe to say the 2 got as they deserved haha. KARMA!
Exactly!
-
@JoByDaylight said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3166203#Comment_3166203
Hit a nerve? No. I just believe it is unnecessary to bring up Nurse in a rare Hag-thread.
Also, my point stands. People are allowed to dislike more than 1 killer.
I agree with you that we need more variety, all killers should be viable and fun to play as AND fun to verse :)
My bad then.
I just brought her up, since how the forum behaved the last weeks.
Of course. People are allowed to go on "oh no, its a XXX". Nothing bad in that. But disliking a killer and being happy to only face a killer once per month are 2 different things. I can dislike playing against Trapper. But i would miss playing against him.
In regard of Hag being useless with the new changes. I´d say that she just requires a different approach now. Different addons, different spots for traps, different tactics. A Hag main will surely adapt.
-
@JoByDaylight said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3166198#Comment_3166198
I agree 100%. I wish a lot of players could grow up and behave. Sadly, there is a big portion of online gamers that hide behind their nicknames and funny profile pictures that are pure toxic.
Treat others as you would like others to treat you.
Correct. Sadly many people don´t do that. I´ve seen matches where people were toxic during the match/endgame screen only to face the same players the very next match and going full surprised pikachu face.
-
@IlliterateGenocide said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3166131#Comment_3166131
Hag is rare but very annoying. i probs hate nurse more but that's on strength not on fun of game
Only thing annoying is the survivor behavior around hags traps. My teammates usually run over the traps, even when they saw me crouching from a safe distance. She has one of the best addon variety. That allows for vastly different playstyles. Which is a great thing. As ideally a survivor would encounter different challenges through those addons.
-
@JoByDaylight said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3166131#Comment_3166131
Good way to bring in Nurse in this thread, why does every thread have to be about her?
Who are you even talking about? The 3 people posting before you saying they don't like facing her?
Are people not allowed to dislike facing more than 1 killer?
I hit a nerve there, huh?
Fact is, people complained about facing nurse for weeks on this forum. Then wesker came out and people complained about only facing wesker. Now this thread has people cherrishing not facing hag anymore, when her pick rate is already extremely low.
We need more variety. Not less. All killers should be viable and fun to play as.
-
@Sonzaishinai said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3166059#Comment_3166059
I'm not advocating hard tunneling
I litterally adressed this in the post you quoted.
Just because you won't hardtunnel 3 hooks someone's out of the game means you have to swing 100% in the other direction and kill people as late as possible
There is a middle ground where you can still play somewhat effecient without going all or nothing on a single survivor
That said there are always going to be salty comments from both sides. The answer is to not change how you want to play the game but by turning off the chat and not listen to them
Salty people also like to leave comments on the profile. Its just that... if people want to have "nicer" matches. They should start by being respectful after the match. Toxic behavior leads to more toxic behavior.
-
Fascinating how the same people that complain about only facing nurse, blight and now wesker. Are the people that cherrish not facing hag anymore.
-
@Grandpa_Crack_Pipe said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3166043#Comment_3166043
Increase the penalty for DCing. By a lot.
Rework/remove the kobe-ing system so you can't suicide on hook in 10-15 uninterrupted seconds.
No, you can't stop people who really really want to be out of the game, but you can make ragequitting as much of a punishing, grueling process as possible to make it not worth the effort for some people.
Yes this could help.
Tbh, i think the devs are already working on implementing something like that. Since hook suicide became very popular after the 6.1. patch. After all, they gave us the whole dc penalty system after the Freddy release in 2017, where almost every match had someone disconnecting.
Reassurance is probably just an attempt to see if the community solves the issue by itself with an perk.
-
@Kaitsja said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3166047#Comment_3166047
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3166049#Comment_3166049
Both of these beg the question, why main Nemesis if his power is so bad that the only way to make use of it is to tunnel/camp? It also makes me wonder why BHVR thinks making killers whose powers fall at either extreme on the spectrum is a good idea.
Like, genuinely, who thought Nemesis' power was a good idea? Infection serves no purpose on Nemesis, and it's sad.
I don´t think there are many "Nemesis Mains" out there. At least not anymore. His whole addon set is terrible. Zombies to rng. Horrible time efficiency. People probably just play him for a daily and then go back to their mains.
There even was a Otz challenge, where he tried to only use his power as Nemesis and not use m1. Long story short, he ended up downing survivors with m1.
-
Might be someone trying to get the Nurse challenge completed while having no experience at playing Nurse.
-
@Sonzaishinai said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3166042#Comment_3166042
To be fair
Going for 8 hooks before killing is about the worst way you can play
No matter how ideal it may be the game is not in this state
I get that hard tunneling isn't nice but that doesn't mean you have to swing completely to the other extreme.
Most reasonable people can't really complain if you get your first kill by hook 5-6 with some hooks spread out
If you have 8 hooks and still no kills your survivor priority managment was bad and you kinda deserve to lose
So you´re advocating to tunnel? Because i´ve seen survivors complain about getting tunneled (alongside insults) when the killer wasn´t.
It kinda feels like a broken record, where survivors do the same comments after the match, no matter what.
Playing "nice" or "fair" isn´t appreciated by the community. If playing that way gets the killer the same salt as playing "scummy" then guess what killer players will do.
-
The whole "having to hit survivors 3 times to down them" thingy is really counterproductive in regard of tunneling/camping.
Thats why.
-
Anyone remembers all the comments of people that cherrished the BBQ nerf because "KiLlErS cAmP aNyWaY"?
Well turns out, BBQ actually DID reduce camping.
-
What are the devs supposed to do to prevent people constantly giving up/disconnecting?
-
@GannTM said:
Try playing solo survivor. Your mind will be changed, trust me.
Actually i think the issue is a different one. 8 hooks, 0 kills and gg ez to be exact. Killer obviously played fair and didn´t tunnel/camp. Which was rewarded with degrading comments. This goes on until a killer doesn´t care about having a fair match and plays as scummy as possible. Which then ruins the game for solos.
-
@CluelessWanderer said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3163974#Comment_3163974
You need to go out and buy a lottery ticket with that luck, sir.
Another match aaaaand the Doctor.
Feels unreal.
-
My last 3 matches were against:
- Huntress on Dead Dawg
- GF on the Plagues map
- Wraith on Cornfield
-
@Raptorrotas said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3156699#Comment_3156699
Im amazed how survivor bissed the whole community is.
"Be happy you only achieved 71-75% od your objectives" is only applied to killers for example.
Tell a survivor to br glad with doing 5 of 7 objectives and you get walls of texts messages :)
I´m amazed at videos, where a streamer got 2-3 hooks before the gates were powered but then only a 4k, because the SWF team was to cocky/altruistic and everyone claims that the match was fine, because the killer got the 4k.
Kills/escapes shouldn´t be a measurement of skill.
-
@GoodBoyKaru said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3156653#Comment_3156653
Consoles explode worldwide as new Resident Evil Chapter releases on Dead By Daylight.
At this point, nothing would surprise me. I mean, the RE map was kill switched for a month. Hooks were moved several times because of abusable spots, games crashed, framerate issues, etc.
-
@Raptorrotas said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3156647#Comment_3156647
But we cant nerf survivors because survivors in teams are too good. We only can nerf killers for theur go(o)d players. /s
Pretty much. Dbd is the only game, where solo is supposedly the majority of the playerbase, but SWF affects kill rates so heavily, that its visible on the charts.
-
Well lets hope this RE launch goes better than the last one.
-
@Ilovezarina5 said:
I dont understand, if you couldnt kill a survivor during the match doesnt make facecamping at endgame less toxic, its like if behaviour thinks that killers deserve at least one kill even if they couldnt do anything during gen phase otherwhise I dont understand why they would make DS and OTR deactive, its so frustating when you make a tiny mistake during EG and then you get killed because a Bubba or Michael camps you
So just to get this straight. You´re complaining that the killer didn´t tunnel before the gates were powered?
-
I´m curious how long it takes until the kill rates drop again. Basekit BT will see a lot of SWF action.
-
@botany_nerd said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3155184#Comment_3155184
op clearly stated the killer slugged just to force the survivor to bleed out for 4 minutes so this wasn't a case of hiding from the killer but the killer just refusing to hook the survivor so no this isn't comparable. might want to read the post fully before making a comment no offence.
No offence taken.
-
@Neprašheart said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3155481#Comment_3155481
Killers are allowed to slug, but it sucks.. Not only it's boring for the killer to just wait or search for that one survivor throughout the entire map, but it's also boring for the other two survivors. If it's obvious that none of them is gonna make it out due to the way the killer plays, then I would even go far enough to assume that the fourth survivor (not the slugged one) wouldn't be so much against getting hooked and sacrificed.
I don't care whether I win or lose, just to clarify; I do play both sides actively (that may change, if killer queues do increase to become too long once RE Chapter gets live) and I do enjoy playing the game. I'm satisfied with how I've played, if I manage to loop the killer, for at least, forty seconds in total throughout each match. That's not a lot, that's literally the lowest amount of time your average player is gonna last. Even if I get downed and hooked within ten seconds, I'm fine with that if I get to manage to do some moves or experiences some really weird and funny stuff along the way - Like watching MacMillan stepping into his bear trap and me stepping into another one the moment I notice that.. There are so many examples, but I don't play to win at all costs; I play for fun, I don't care about winning or losing.
If I get camped or tunneled to death, as long as I can waste around two minutes of the killer's time, I'm satisfied and would claim that I've done my job as a part of the team, although it's really not a team based game in Solo Queue, is it? It's just everybody playing on their own instead of with each other.
Hmm.. I'm not sure, I don't really remember, but I wouldn't say I got triggered by it. It's more like I got enraged? I don't actually even know the proper word to describe how I've felt after reading your response those few hours ago, but it was similar to reading somebody else's responses back in the day when and where they were attempting to bait people into arguing and insulting each other..
The listed and mentioned stuff sounds kinda extreme. I'd definitely agree and may promote the first one, as slugging is just unnecessary. I have mentioned in this response quite valid reasons as to why slugging is a bad strategy in terms of how much fun or satisfaction it gives in comparison to the reward. The second one sounds very well aswell - I'd promote it without a doubt, as there's almost nothing else to do in this game. If there's a Rift challenge in your way, though, I can understand why you'd refuse to touch generators a lot.. And the third one, ehhh.. I'd argue that giving up is literally one of the worst possible actions you can choose to do, but if the killer is really experienced and obviously too good for us to outplay him or her, I'd be willing to accept and claim that even if only one gets to escape, we've done a pretty good job.. Even though the results do speak otherwise.
I don't believe, the way you've used your words previously and in the response I'm providing this answer for are in place.. I just wouldn't, as my opinion seems to differ from yours.
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3155643#Comment_3155643
I do completely agree with that, but is there really anything that we can do about it, besides attempting to pursue players to not care about 4k? We're not the developers, so we can't actually dictate the game's development.
Thing is, there's no way to prevent the situation from happening, unless you're using Boon: Exponential and blessing a totem whenever the killer snuffs it out, which'd actively put you into possibly dangerous situations and kinda sabotage your team in the short and long runs, as every second spent elsewhere than on generators is a waste in far too many cases.
I haven't made and official suggestion in a different subforum here yet, but a band-aid could fix it a bit, right? It's not gonna fix it completely, but it's better than nothing.
I would assume that the devs take action IF this becomes a more serious/widespread issue. Until then, not much is going to happen.
-
@OjomoTheWraith said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3155673#Comment_3155673
damn bro that was a long time ago. Dont let me lie, wasnt it like around 2019? Lets be real, for such a huge company with such a large playerbase thats way to slow. They have to step it up out of respect for all the players who supported them when they were smal
Can´t argue with that. Yes, they are slow.
-
@OjomoTheWraith said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3155652#Comment_3155652
yeah something like that. No harm on anyone but just QoL. Something BHVR is not doing enough sadly
Well we got QoL changes with the endgame collapse and the flashlight blind screen. It takes time, but the devs are open to changes.
-
@Khelendrose2020 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3154266#Comment_3154266
Agreed. I don't think the patch caused that much of a swing in population of survivors. I do think it brought back a lot of killers who either quit or switched to survivor.
If anything, it seems more balan ed than it has been in a long time.
Yes. Even more, the overall amount of players increased after the patch. Which is a good sign that more people came back. From both sides.
That everyone switched to killer is simply unrealistic as killer queues would be 10 times longer.
-
@Neprašheart said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3155245#Comment_3155245
Does that mean, you do start to listen to them after two weeks?
I am havin' a feeling, that most of the threads you're seeing or reading through aren't any different from the ones that you do see half of a year after the Chapter's release..
The threads usually change over the curse of the week. For example, on the big perk rework patch, everyone claimed that DH is trash and totally useless.
No one would claim that now. As its still a really strong perk.
Its just pointless to argue when something is freshly released.
-
@OjomoTheWraith said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3155107#Comment_3155107
Imagine the Killer could remote summon a crawling entity at the exit gate to force survivors out and survivors could just speed up bleeding out. Best QoL for both sides
The entity could slowly close the exit. Slower, the further the survivors are away and faster the more survivors are at the exit area. Something like Blood Warden. Giving an incentive to leave the are.
The slugged survivor should have the option to bleed out faster, when there are only 2 survivors left and the further the teammate is away.
-
@Neprašheart said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3155239#Comment_3155239
You'll have to present more details overall.
I've definitely talked about this before, and if the killer keeps running back and forth between the slugged survivor and there's no way to rescue the survivor without taking the hit.. There's nothing else you can do.
It gets even worse, if after reviving your team mate you do notice that there's no way for them to heal up (in case case they don't have Iron Will), so you can say goodbye to your life - It's not possible for him or her to revive you, if no Iron Will is present.. The killer would hear your team mate the moment he or she would get nearby.
I don't think, you'd like to switch places with the slugged survivor.. It's not anything to be enjoy, is it?
Its just a ######### situation for everyone involved. Which shouldn´t be a thing in the first place.
-
@Neprašheart said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3155235#Comment_3155235
It's true that this is what Dead by Daylight is kinda famous for.. But, what gives? Do people actually mean the suggested nerfs, or are they just throwing jokes around to have fun?
It doesn't look like they're serious to me, but I have never been good at reading other people's minds.
Generally I ignore buff/nerf threads during the first week after the release. People simply don't know how to play as or against the new killer.
-
@Neprašheart said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3155231#Comment_3155231
If the survivor runs to you and you don't move at all.. Don't react or anything - That's basically being AFK, isn't it?
And the in-game unsportsmanlike conduct does mention AFK to be one of the bannable offenses, as far as I know.
Reread please. No one is coming. Teammate is switching lockers in the hope I bleed out before the killer finds him.
-
@Neprašheart said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3155219#Comment_3155219
Actually, I haven't even gotten to the part of assuming certain styles of gameplay related to the game; This was all just based on stuff in general, so it could've applied to every single multiplayer game.
I do question the comparison, because I don't share the same point of view, and I have even provided you with reasons as to why my opinion differs from yours. It's up to you to make sense outta it.. That is, if you wanna discuss things or just simply abandon them.
Couldn't tabbing out be seen as unsportsmanlike conduct? With a video evidence, this could possibly lead to.. some punishments, probably temporary bans, I think? That's how it's described in-game, if I'm not mistaken.
Why'd you type „gg“, if you haven't enjoyed or didn't have fun playing the match? That alone doesn't make sense to me. I'm not gonna type „gg“ if I'm certain that I, alone, wasn't the only one who didn't enjoy the match.. But I'd probably type so if I'm certain that two or more other players have had fun, or have very likely had fun.
I am glad that you can see it in this way. Thing is, this was a reaction to your previous response, which was including the same types of words.. Making your previous response one small childish implication aswell..
Tabbing out while being slugged and the other survivor switches lockers or when all survivors are at the gate and the timer runs isn't exactly something I'd consider unsportsmanlike conduct.
-
@Neprašheart said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3155195#Comment_3155195
What, how's that an issue? Are you gonna ignore every other survivor in SWF just because you're convinced that they do mean to „bully“ you? What kind of a logic is that?!
Why do you need others to stop doing something? Why do they have to be the ones to take the first turn, why can't you be the one to take the first turn and stop doing so?
.. Just, yikes. I have no clue, if this is how you do act or if you've meant to make your response sound as if it was coming from some children throwing tantrum just because things aren't going their way, but that's exactly how it sounds to me.
If you desire or want a change, you should be the one to make the first step and show others how it's done.. Not the other way around! We're not livin' in a dream, you can't just wait for an opportunity to arrive to you.. You do have to create those opportunities and motivate people to think alongside you..
Are you.. Serious? This is nothing hard!.. Yet, it feels like you're struggling to get it and try to make a positive change that'd others welcome.. 🙄
And where did i say that? You are implying, that i slug, simply because i compare one thing to another. However, i rarely slug and will never slug for a 4k. I also won´t move when getting slugged and simply tab out.
I tab out on both sides, when the game is over for me. I don´t have to grant the other side some "icing on the cake" and just return to the endgame screen. Where i write gg, no matter how the game went.
Everything else you made up... are just childish implications.
-
@Aven_Fallen said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3155197#Comment_3155197
Even if the Survivor does not move, there is nothing they can do to speed up the 4 minutes of Bleedout. The Killer on the other hand can reduce the time Survivors are staying at an open Exit pretty easy.
And the survivor can tab out and watch something else until its over. Its what i do as killer. Pretty easy but annoying. Which is what this thread is about.
-
@Aven_Fallen said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3155193#Comment_3155193
I mean, you tried to compare something which is not comperable. And then you tried to make it comperable by adding something (the slugged Survivor moving away), despite people left on the ground for Bleed-out, even if they did not move (and even have AFK-Crows, indicating their position).
So yeah, you tried. And failed.
Actually you failed. A survivor who doesn´t move will create the annoying crows. Easy to find unless the killer just afks (which is a different issue).
But there are a lot of survivors who will move in an attempt deny the killer the hook. Something comparable to disconnecting at the last hook. Which is totally pointless, absolutley non beneficial for the survivor but still happens.