TragicSolitude
TragicSolitude
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@kate_best_girl said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2904033#Comment_2904033
Been decent myself. Sadly no games have come out to pull me away from DBD yet😔
I sadly can't seem to get off these forums either treatin it like a job to moderate these forums I swear lol
lol I know exactly what you mean. I'm not even currently playing the game and I'm still on the forums, complaining about the same things that I've been complaining about for years. Even this problem with the Spirit cosmetic has had 2 or 3 threads made about it in the past, I think. I used this head cosmetic up until the hair got ruined. I miss it. I really hope the devs acknowledge it this time. It's not the same cosmetic without the proper hair.
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@kate_best_girl said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2904026#Comment_2904026
Hey Tragic I haven't seen you around in a hot minute how're you
Hi! I'm good 😀 how about you?
I've been around a bit on the forums, though not as much as usual. I've hardly touched DbD since Elden Ring came out.
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PlayStation and Switch.
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I find it impossible to track via sound in this game, and that's sort of required for playing Spirit. I haven't played her since they removed her collision during phasing.
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Yeah, I want the red streaks back. The red streaks in her hair were what made the head cosmetic awesome. There's no point buying it if it's going to stay busted.
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@BrokenSouI said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2903377#Comment_2903377
Then the issue with BHVR should be with performance and the lack of optimization. Not pretty easy skill checks.
You're not wrong, but they seem unable to fix the one issue, so if they can't fix that then it should at least by easy for them to make the DS skill check larger, so they're more like an early 2nd stage hook skill check. Low fps, input lag, and frame drops don't screw over normal-sized skill checks as much as they do the small ones.
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@SuzuKR said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2903377#Comment_2903377
There is a limit to accommodations. It’s like removing the skillcheck system entirely because some people lag and cannot hit them well.
If BHVR won't let me play the game on console to a reasonable degree, gatekeeping perks behind performance issues, then they need to refund everyone who bought the game on console and stop selling it there.
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@BrokenSouI said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2903332#Comment_2903332
Good for you not being interested. Maybe, just maybe those "new players" should learn to play like we all did. If they can't hit a skill check as easy as DS. I don't know what to tell you.
Stop trying to hand hold and bottle feed everything
I'm trying to learn how to play. I'm at Devotion 22, but the low fps and frame drops are still kicking my ass. I just don't understand, how many more hours do I need before I become skilled and can finally use DS?
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For everyone saying there's no reason to remove the skill check, yes there is: it's called console.
For crying out loud, after all this time I still struggle to hit the skill check on PS4 to the point that running the perk is pointless, I miss the skill check 80% of the time.
On Switch, I can't hit the skill check at all. I can live with the fact that Overcharge will screw me every time, I can live with the fact that Yellow Glyphs will take many many tries, and I can live with the fact that I become a huge liability for my team against Merciless Storm. That's just Switch life. But I should be able to use my own damn survivor perk.
If DS really does need to take "skill" to use in this game, then BHVR needs to come up with something skill-based, not something that can be screwed over by input lag and frame drops. I've been playing this game for over 3 damn years, I paid for the Halloween chapter, I'd like to be able to ####ing use DS. There's no reason to screw console players more we already are. I've read enough on this forum to know console players specifically get tunneled because we're worse in chases due to controllers having less precision than M&KB.
It's also not very nice to prevent new players from using DS, either. They're going to go down easy, anyway. It's the super-skilled survivors who make killers' lives pain with DS, and they're the ones who aren't affected by this skill check.
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@BenOfMilam said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2898583#Comment_2898583
Actually very good take. One queue for MMR games, one queue for non-MMR games.
Wonder how long it will take for the MMR queue to completely die?
Judging by the recent Player Satisfaction Survey, if they introduce a non-MMR mode, it won't reward Bloodpoints. If it doesn't reward BP, it's also probable it won't work with Tome Challenges or Daily Rituals.
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@Mandy said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2893625#Comment_2893625
I must admit, I'm a fan of keeping them hidden...I do not know how many times I've had to say that Grades are not used for matchmaking purposes any longer.
I'd love to see the survivor portraits used instead of the generic survivor icon, that way it'd be easier to know who was who within the match.
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all buffing solos will do in worsen the balance
It's hard to balance the game when SWF teams have a whole crapton of information that solo queue doesn't get without sacrificing perk slots. How do you balance killers around that?
In general, yes, the problem with solo queue isn't necessarily a lack of info, it's getting stuck with teammates who don't know what they're doing or just don't care. It'd be great if MMR worked and put me with people who took even an ounce of aggro instead of hiding and then dying on their first hook because they let everyone else die first. Instead, I'm just... not playing right now. That's the only solution available to me, because MMR has been too busted to work around despite months of trying.
Solo queue would be fine if it weren't for the teammates. I'm hoping for bots in the future, personally.
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@ReikoMori said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2896538#Comment_2896538
I was gonna talk about this being tested before, but you've saved me the trouble.
A lot of interesting ideas for survivor gameplay just seem to not hold up to the outsized effect that SWF play has on the game vs Solo play. It's sad because it makes hard to shrink the gap between both styles of play while adding novel ideas to the game.
The thing that makes me most sad is we will never get a killer that can pretend to be a survivor because SWF would absolutely nullify its power.
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Exit gate regression is something that has been tested in the past and the devs decided against it as it widened the gap between SWF and solo:
@Peanits said:
This was actually something that was tested earlier on when the End Game Collapse was created, for what it's worth. While it's nice, it did mean that coordinated groups had a noticeable advantage over solo players. You could communicate and have one guy wait on the gate keeping it prepped and ready to open while the other guy goes for the save. Meanwhile a solo player would have to cross their fingers and hope for the best, possibly coming back to a gate at 0%.
Ultimately it was decided against. We don't want to widen that gap anymore than it already is.
As far as the blocking the gate bit goes, that would be considered griefing and you can report them for that.
I do wish everyone would stop 99%ing the gate, though. All it ever does is get me killed, because they abandon it almost every time. Or sometimes they block the switch and wait until the killer downs me again before opening it up and running out themselves.
God I hate solo queue.
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Being left to die on my first hook so the SWF could escape with their key. Yeah, that was super fun.
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@NemmyMan3000 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2895923#Comment_2895923
Very funny, but just because you dont see a killer in your matches often, doesnt mean nobody plays them
I'm just sad that there are killers I wouldn't know existed if it weren't for their portrait. Twins aren't the only one, but they are at the top for "least seen" by a huge margin.
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@SS007 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2896020#Comment_2896020
Thank you for your support and kind words :)
Np :) I know how frustrating this game can be. I've also known some people who got in trouble for things that really caught them off guard (the forums give you a few chances before a total ban, but those strikes against you never expire). As a random example, telling someone on the forums to "calm down" might be considered inappropriate. And it is in the forum rules to tell someone you've reported them.
Back on topic, I'd really recommend closing chat and keeping it closed, if not permanently then at least while learning a new killer. Just pretend everyone said "gg, you're really improving!"
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@SS007 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2895986#Comment_2895986
Stop trying to play a tough guy kid because you aren't , you're cringe.
Don't let yourself get baited, insults and mentions of reporting can get you in hot water. It's best not to engage. Everyone else in this thread has been respectful and empathetic, so seeing it get closed would be a shame.
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Killers don't need to see it, but I as a survivor would like to be able to see it so that I can dodge 3-man SWF teams who will offer me up like a sacrificial lamb.
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@WesCravenFan said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2895187#Comment_2895187
Uhh.... defending generators is not reportable. I would very much like a citation that shows that a killer defending a 3 gen is reportable, because I am really quite certain it is not. It is not holding the game hostage to patrol gens.
It actually can be reportable if the killer stalls the game without trying to win. Doc can do it by keeping survivors in madness tier 3, not allowing them to work on gens, but also refusing to slug or hook them, meaning they can't escape and they can't die so their only option to end the match is disconnecting.
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I'm waiting for singleplayer bot games so I can start playing again.
Oooh, that would be nice. Custom matches with bots would be wonderful. I could play duo with my friend and maybe have fun again, instead of avoiding the game and trying to find a hypnotist who can remove all memories of DbD's existence.
@NemmyMan3000 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2895884#Comment_2895884
Twins dont need to be touched, she is better off being the way she is before ruining her and potentially her add ons
What are the Twins? Is that a boob reference? It can't possibly be a character in DbD, otherwise I would've seen them at some point in the past year.
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Best thing you can do for yourself in this game is close chat and keep it closed. No good comes of it. The occasional "gg" isn't worth it.
I turned off messages on PS4 and learned that silence is truly golden. Nothing beats the lack of notifications after a match telling me "ggez" because I lost or complaining about imagined slights because I won.
Killer-specific MMR is pretty crappy. First off, there's a sort of base MMR that affects all your killers. So, if you've done well playing as one killer, that's going to raise your MMR for all the other killers you've never touched. Next up, when you're fresh to the game, MMR doesn't stick you at the bottom, it puts you somewhere low-middle-ish (I think, depending on how BHVR has been adjusting the numbers); I know that's how it works for the overall base killer MMR, and I imagine it comes into play for the killer-specific MMR as well.
In short, to have the kind of MMR you need where you go against survivors who don't stomp you, so you have matches you can actually learn from, you will have to lose. A lot.
@Wendygo said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2895837#Comment_2895837
Oh please. You wanted a high MMR being a one trick now you complain when you try something else? Get good at them. You want to win every match. It's not you 'get a 4k' everytime. You will struggle. Complain somewhere else and grow up. "I want to pick up a killer and be super good right away, why am I not 4k everygame with a new killer or vs new players😡" doesn't work like that
OP came in here talking about toxicity in chat making trying to learn a new killer feel miserable, pointing out that killer-specific MMR doesn't seem to work, and nothing you've said has been constructive towards that. No one was talking about wanting to win straight off the bat. You throw out negative assumptions like they're facts. Were you exemplifying the playerbase's toxicity on purpose or was that a happy accident?
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@NerfedFreddy said:
Just got achievement as Leatherface (second try). Like i said adepts are fine. 4k isn't enough. 4k camping killers shouldn't be rewarded with adept. Emblem system is quite generous and you don't need perfect chaser emblem to get adept
If you were Silver grade instead of Bronze, you wouldn't have double pipped because of that silver Chase emblem.
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@Nos37 said:
When you suggest they just work on the gen in your face, effectively giving up and losing so every one can move on...
Why not do the same, as killer? Why not go AFK in the corner for 2 minutes and let them escape so you could all move on?
Do you see the double standard you suggest?
I have gone AFK in these situations and come back after 20+ minutes and gens still hadn't been touched.
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@Sluzzy said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2895049#Comment_2895049
That goes both ways....it would be a breath of fresh air to spawn on a map and not see Entity claws on a gen, or Ruin, or POP. And now Dead Man's Switch.
... So, how does your gameplay change when the killer doesn't have one of those perks? Do you go slower on gens? Do totems, search chests, meme around, anything like that?
Because I don't run a single gen regression perk, and survivors seem to take that as, "Yes! We can do gens as fast as possible and then leave!" I don't understand why survivors want to depip and earn less than 10k BP in a match, but they do. I walk around the map and every totem is still standing, not a single chest has been searched. Why would any killer not run gen regression perks? They're the only things that slow the match down. I don't run gen regression perks because I'm a stubborn idiot and I only want to run my BP build and chill, but anyone who cares about having a real game with time for an actual back-and-forth will want a match that's longer than four minutes.
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@NerfedFreddy said:
They don't need "fix", they are totally fine how currently they are. They are not hard, but still give you a challenge and satisfaction after completing it. Just 4k as an achievement is laughable. It's called an achievement for a reason
The current killer adept is based on the emblem system. The emblem system judges all killers by the same criteria, which makes the adept achievement meaningless. Killers that have a one-hit-down power are punished by the emblem system for using it. Even Trapper is punished for using his traps. The most effective way to get adept with any killer is to play them like an M1 killer and not use their power, otherwise you risk messing up your Chaser emblem. That's not a good achievement; it doesn't show that you're skilled at a certain killer, just that you understand how to max out the emblem points.
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The threads about killer being unfun and weak is getting old.
But, killer's not fun.
Neither is solo survivor. Playing survivor with my friend (so, two-man SWF) is fun sometimes. I never play in a 4-man squad, but I expect that's really the only truly fun mode in the game.
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Hex: Maniac
(that was my name on Switch for a good while)
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I have trouble tracking via sound in this game that I don't have in other games. The sound occlusion especially is all kinds of messed up, but even just normal directional audio is worse in DbD than in other games. I'll hear an injured survivor loud and clear one second, no idea where it's coming from, and then it's suddenly silent like they were never there. It has confused me and cost me precious time in matches.
The more I play other games that utilize sound, the less I think I'm the problem. It's DbD, specifically DbD.
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Maybe BHVR should just truly make this a team game: If one survivor dies, it's a total loss and it counts as all of them dying. Woo, no more slugging for the 4k, now survivors are happy.
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@Tsulan said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2884090#Comment_2884090
Solo queue isn´t as bad as you make it sound. Most of the time i get competent teammates. Sure, sometimes you get rage quit suicides. But thats just how it is, since there isn´t a real punishment for this. Killers usually don´t go full tryhard when that happens (exceptions apply).
Holy crap, I wish I had your survivor queues. My teammates are usually awful, and killers will go full-on slug-for-the-4k mode if someone suicides or disconnects, like they want to punish the other survivors for staying in the match.
My friend tried to play survivor today for some reason, and only his first match had good teammates. After that, every single match was awful. The final straw was when a bloody Claudette shined her flashlight at him while he on the ground to make sure the Nurse killed him.
From my experience, solo queue is hell. The matches with competent teammates are rare enough to be memorable and held in high regard. I'll talk about how amazing it was for the rest of the week when it happens.
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I've felt bad for tunneling, sure. It usually stems from misinterpreting someone's actions just to get to the end screen and discover they were a clueless Ash IV with no perks.
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@jaawn said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2883823#Comment_2883823
Playing killer doesn't require a lack of empathy. I know a lot of very nice people who enjoy playing killer...and they "play to win" without facecamping anyone...ever lol. Why are you legitimizing this? It isn't normal gameplay, it isn't normal behavior. It isn't about it "sucking" to be on a hook. It isn't even about being on the hook, like I keep saying. Hooks are a normal part of the game. However, this is hooking someone with zero opportunity for an unhook (at least not a successful unhook). This is removing someone's ability to play entirely, not putting them on a hook temporarily. That is not a normal part of the game.
If someone found out that if a killer hooks someone and then hits them in the back twice, it causes a bug where they cannot be unhooked so long as the killer stands within 4 meters of that hook, and people exploited that bug for kills...it'd be bannable, reportable, and everyone would universally agree that it isn't okay for someone to do that. However, the outcome is functionally identical to the type of camping I am talking about. It doesn't make sense to me for one of them to be "okay" but the other is not when they have the same result. I think of this type of face camping to be exploiting the freedom of gameplay to block someone from playing the game. Similar to how blocking someone in a corner and not letting them move is also exploiting the freedom of gameplay to stop someone from being able to play.
I didn't say playing killer requires a lack of empathy. My apologies if my wording was unclear and implied that, but I don't think that at all. My post was only talking about the subjective nature of what some people see as toxic vs what some people see as playing to win, and how everyone is different.
I also am specifically talking about being facecamped on the hook when I talk about not enjoying being on the hook, but you are arguing with me like I'm not. I don't understand why.
You say people can't make successful saves when the killer facecamps, but that's not true. DS, BT, and teamwork can make it happen, even with a group of four randoms. That's also the difference between normal facecamping and exploiting a bug to completely prevent unhooking. There are ways to save someone being facecamped, and the devs are working on new ways to discourage facecamping.
Anyway, I think I'm done. When you make statements like, "This is removing someone's ability to play entirely, not putting them on a hook temporarily." as if I've somehow missed that point, then I can only interpret that as either you're constantly misinterpreting what I say, which means me continuing this discussion is pointless, or you're repeating yourself because you're stuck in a loop, which also means any further posts from me would be pointless. Anything else I say would probably be me repeating myself as I try to clarify whatever got misunderstood somewhere in there, but I probably should've signed off a few posts ago. I was only trying to help you understand why the devs aren't going to ban for facecamping so you could direct your efforts towards something that might actually happen. I'm bored of talking in circles, and you're probably bored with it, too.
Good luck with your crusade.
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@jaawn said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2883737#Comment_2883737
The effects on the "team" of survivors isn't what I'm focused on here. Yes, the other 3 survivors could rush gens and all get out thus "punishing" the camping.... that does nothing to enable the camped player to get a chance to play the game. That's what I'm focused on. I guess technically it is some kind of tactic, but it is a toxic tactic because they are knowingly sacrificing a human being's ability to play the game so that they can turn it into a 1v3 instead of 1v4. That is toxic. It's incredibly selfish to say "nah you don't get to play this one because I want to give myself an advantage".
I mean, yeah, it sucks to be camped on the hook with nothing to do but dangle there.
It's incredibly selfish
It comes down to priorities and empathy. Some people would see empathy in this situation as a weakness. I remember coming across a writeup where someone said that empathizing with your opponent is a weakness, winners do whatever is necessary. Only losers play nice. yadda yadda yadda.
Personally, I have a huge problem playing killer because I don't like taking people out of the match, which means I often don't enjoy killing, which makes me kind of crap at the role because I don't put in the effort to win, I just kind of screw around. I absolutely hate playing to reach Iri 1 because I can't give second chances, I can't play nice, no matter how bad the team seems to be doing I have to tunnel someone out if I am given the opportunity. I learned that very quickly when I was trying to pip up, and it made me miserable.
So, again, it's all very subjective. To some people, "selfish" doesn't enter into the equation, it's just about winning. At the other extreme, there are people like me. And then you have a million shades of grey in between.
I try not to judge people for playing to win when I don't like their tactics. I don't feel that overpowering drive to win, and that's a me thing.
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@jaawn said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2883604#Comment_2883604
I appreciate the links, and that you put a lot into this post, but one main thing I want to clear up is: it doesn't matter if it is personal or not, and the specific type of camping I am focusing on is objectively toxic. I'm not talking about "all stuff any survivor would claim counts as camping". I am talking about camping someone to death on first hook, refusing to chase anyone else, etc... until they are dead. I have specified it many, many times in this thread.
If a killer hooks the first survivor they find, and then stands there watching them until they die (i.e. they don't even attempt to do anything else, if another survivor shows up, they don't chase them, etc...). That is 100% toxic. You are ignoring normal gameplay, other opportunities, etc and forcibly removing a player's ability to play the game. Full stop. That goes against the legal language in the EULA. The killer has many other things they could be doing, they are actively choosing not to do them *even when other survivors show up and give them a perfect opportunity to go win a chase and hook someone else.*
That means, in this specific scenario, it is not "a tactic", it is forcing someone not to play for dubious reasons. It could be for an easy kill, it could be because they enjoy controlling someone like that, it could be because they just hate the character that person is playing...etc. The reason doesn't really matter, because in the end it is forcing someone to not play. This specific example is always wrong, always toxic for the game, and should be reportable and bannable. No one should be banned just because they got reported "for camping", it should only be punished if someone is continuously doing this specific thing, i.e. stopping other players from playing the game.
And this is where the thread is going in circles, because a lot of people disagree that it's toxic, which means it's subjective, not objective.
I specifically used in my example the exact thing you're talking about, camping out the first person they catch. It is a tactic, because it gets the game down to a 3v1, which is the best way to slow down gen repair if the survivors don't punish it (which they should, because if survivors punish a killer for camping by slamming out gens, killers will learn that facecamping the first person they catch is a bad tactic).
it should only be punished if someone is continuously doing this specific thing, i.e. stopping other players from playing the game
And this is why I keep saying it's bad game design, because the killer's objective is to basically stop survivors from playing the game. The survivor's job is to do gens, and the killer's job in part is to stop survivors from doing gens. Back before Nurse was nerfed, the best Nurses could practically stop a gen from ever being touched. They'd load in, quickly down all four survivors, then put each one on a hook. That was the end of a match. No one got to make a hook save or repair a gen. That is the killer doing their BHVR-given job. Was it fun? No, and that's why Nurse was nerfed, because god Nurses were ridiculously OP and gave survivors no chance to play the game. But that's how the game was designed, so no one was banned for it.
There are ways for the other survivors to punish camping and the devs are working on creating an in-game way to discourage facecamping. I've seen survivors who were being facecamped get away. DS, BT, and teamwork can all lead to a 0k, I've seen it happen and I've helped make it happen. The devs value those sorts of plays. Yeah, it's kind of strange, and I think they put too much value on player agency sometimes, but it's the statement they've made in the past as seen here: https://deadbydaylight.fandom.com/wiki/Developer_Q%26A%27s#Are_there_any_plans_to_punish_facecampers.3F
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@Marc_123 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2883534#Comment_2883534
They already get these reports.
And they talk much on the streams - we will see when it comes out.
I think they already try with the new perks that are more rewarding if you try to do other stuff than camping.
But the main problem is that for some killers it is really hard to catch good loopers - chases take too long. The gens fly by and you are screwed. That is still a big reason for camping.
Yeah, I know they get these reports, which is why they keep stressing it's not bannable and tell people not to submit those reports, but can you imagine the ridiculous number they'd get if they came out and said it is bannable? Every survivor who has a bad game would submit a report. I've been accused of stuff I never did during the match because the survivor's view of what the killer is doing is both limited and biased.
@jaawn said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2883534#Comment_2883534
I didn't know that, but that is very encouraging. That should help a lot, depending on their approach. However, regardless of any systems to discourage it, the 1 specific type of camping I mentioned should be reportable. Camping someone to death on 1st hook at the beginning of a match is toxic behavior that is bad for the game and violates the EULA. Other examples might be debatable because of the circumstance, I don't dispute that, but that one example is a clear cut violation.
It feels toxic, but it's rarely personal. It's a tactic. Not a good one, not a fun one, but a tactic nonetheless. Almost every time someone comes on these forums asking what they're supposed to do to slow down gens, multiple responses will tell them to tunnel one survivor out as fast as possible. That's the truth, going from a 4v1 to a 3v1 is unfortunately the best way to slow down gens. So, a killer who struggles with chases and struggles with gen pressure catches one survivor, puts them on a hook, and then tries to get them to die as fast as possible. Some hit survivors on the hook to say "hurry up and die." Some hit survivors on the hook because they (no joke) think it speeds up the sacrifice process.
(I'm not saying camping is never done to be malicious, only that it's rarer than most people think. Just like a lot of teabagging is tactical rather than toxic, trying to get a killer to chase you instead of someone who's dead on hook.)
I hate when I'm camped first thing, most people hate when it happens to them. But it's bad game design. It's human nature to take the easiest path, and the easiest paths are 1. 3v1, and 2. camping. So that's what players will do, they'll do the easiest things that provide the best results.
How I or you or any other player interprets the EULA is irrelevant. How BHVR meant it, what they interpret it to mean, is the only deciding factor in the end. You can argue it for the rest of your life, but the best outcome you could hope for is to see the EULA changed to remove the word "enjoy." If that's your end goal, then okay, cool.
@LadyTyche said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2883534#Comment_2883534
I didn't know that and thank you for sharing. Every time I have seen camping brought up I see people saying it's just part of the game. I don't think the best solution is banning. I'd much rather see the game discourage it and push the killers to their objectives. There is some hard camping behavior that I think if reported, and reports proven to be accurate, should be potentially banned. Especially if they are multiple offenders. But for the most part it seems that a lot of killers just think camping is how the game is played. I'm very glad to hear that the devs are working on this.
Also, maybe the BHVR staff here could say the devs are working on it when camping is brought up. All I see is that its not reportable....
The devs rarely comment on the forums about what they're up to anymore because it usually bites them in the ass. Devs actually used to be somewhat active here, but I think the community's attitude kind of chased them off. They occasionally have dev streams on Twitch where they might mention what they're working on, but they keep "things in progress" to a minimum because once you say you're working on it then people expect to see it and see it soon. There are things the devs mentioned working on years ago that got scrapped, but people act like those were promised and still bring them up to this day.
So, the devs aren't going to comment on it, and I don't think the staff/mods are allowed to comment on ongoing projects.
I wasn't trying to say that we'll see results in the near future, only that the devs do care and are working on it.
@LadyTyche said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2883534#Comment_2883534
Also, where can I see the devs talk about this? I'd like to watch the stream please.
First off, here's a link to DbD's Twitch, where they do their dev streams: https://www.twitch.tv/deadbydaylight/
Here's a link with some other details about how the devs view camping (and why they refrain from banning people for doing it): https://deadbydaylight.fandom.com/wiki/Developer_Q%26A%27s#Are_there_any_plans_to_punish_facecampers.3F
And here's the link you actually asked for: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wIocxDbQ-9g&t=2740s
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@LadyTyche said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2883487#Comment_2883487
I agree. This is why I'm commenting on this here. If this is truly how they want the game to be played it doesn't line-up with their EULA. If they decide DBD is now going to be a hook simulator game that takes away pips for something that is completely out of your control and isn't enjoyable in any way when it happens (and happens far too often) then good luck finding and keeping survivors to play in your matches.
... out of curiosity, you do know BHVR is working on a way to discourage camping within the game, right? It's not an easy fix, because everything they've tested in the past is easily abused by halfway-coordinated survivors, but the devs seemed pretty optimistic about their current idea when they mentioned it in a recent stream. Even if they don't go through with that one, I doubt they'll just give up.
Most people, including the devs, don't want killers standing around staring at a hook for two minutes waiting for someone to die. But the point of this thread is to encourage banning people who camp, and that's not a reasonable response to the issue. It's highly unlikely they'd ever make it bannable because if nothing else it's not enforceable. They'd have to hire a ridiculous number of people to deal with the fact that every match from now until the end of time would be reported for a camping killer, and most reports would be thrown out, but BHVR would still need people to look at each report individually. It's an unreasonable ask.
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do they just want all killer gone and they game dead
They want killers to be their entertainers. Rather than pay a person to do the job of entertainer, though, they'd rather punish people who paid to play a game but refuse to conform to that role.
Also, a lot of comments I see imply that yes, many survivors really do believe anyone who plays killer is a bad person at their core. It's weird and actually kind of disturbing. I can only assume their end-goal win condition is to get rid of all killer players and thus rid the world of this horrible evil, becoming the unsung heroes of their generation.
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@Plsfix369 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2882517#Comment_2882517
you haven't seen otz play do you? lol he doesn't need to camp all the time, not in the first hook and he doesn't push it to death hook.
Killers just want to camp kill cause they're bad and its easier to kill a person who couldn't fight back .
You misunderstood my entire post. Not sure if you did that on purpose, but I'll just assume you only glanced at what I wrote because the post was lengthy.
I never said killers "need" to camp. Ever. I called camping both an option and the intuitive way to play, but neither of those imply necessity at all.
You should also try harder to bring something meaningful to the conversation in your replies. First you use a streamer who plays the game for a living as an example (the average player is neither a streamer nor do they want to hear about how streamers do things), then your second paragraph has a negative emotional undertone as you throw baseless insults at an entire group of players. Killers may be the survivors' opponents, but the person playing your opponent is still playing the game with you, and you need them for the game to exist. Seeing it any other way is unhealthy for you as a person and for DbD as a whole. It's also a waste of energy to insult people who don't care, you could put that energy into something constructive.
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@Thusly_Boned said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2882789#Comment_2882789
This has been historically true, but since she was tweaked a bit a while back, it's been a lot easier to pip with her. Specifically, her Deviousness. At least in my experience.
Deviousness is a Bloodpoint category and doesn't translate to emblems.
@SS007 said:
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/3MKAYGS9BZ9R/1.png
Literally played tons of games where I'd pressure gens ,chase and hook survivors , but nothing It's always 0 pip even with high kill counts..
I'd be running around the map like a maniac I don't know what I'm I doing wrong ? and please no go for 12 hooks games don't last that long with the current meta but while playing survivor it's super easy 2 gens 2 unhooks and you guaranteed a pip and ofc get chased a bit nothing stressful but as a killer even sweaty games don't guarantee it.
It's just depressing that game after game I end up with 0 pip even when I pull great plays and chases.
Looking at your emblems, Chaser is what dragged you down. If you use Plague's sickness to get survivors sick and broken before hitting them, you're hurting your Chaser emblem. It's the same as using an insta-down, it costs you points. Puking on a survivor to get them sick/broken doesn't count as getting a hit during a chase.
Your Devout emblem is silver. I'm going to guess that the survivor who escaped never got hooked once? If that's the case, that's what cost you the gold.
Here's a breakdown of all the emblems: https://deadbydaylight.fandom.com/wiki/Emblems
Take a good look at Chaser. It requires a lot, and hitting a survivor during a chase nets 55 points. Shorter chases also reward more points, but the time you spend puking on a survivor to get them broken probably takes a bit of time. A chase that ends in 0-15 seconds nets 90 points. 15-30 seconds only nets 60 points.
What's wrong with the pip system? The pip system sucks. It does not take each killer's unique powers into consideration and grades everyone on the same scale, which does not work in this game. Years ago it sounded like the devs were going to work on that, but no, this is still an issue.
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@LadyTyche said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2882475#Comment_2882475
If that were the case then the game should give you points for being hooked once and staying until you die. Instead you get penalized (lose pips) for this and you have no control over it.
Also, No one is saying they don't ever want to be hooked. You are correct, that is part of the game and the survivors can't complete their objectives if no one is hooked. The issue is when someone is forced to die after on hook. They are forced into a gameplay that is interfering with their ability to play the game (or we would gets points for for dangling on a meat hook).
The game sucks at rewarding points, that's known. For the longest time players who kept the killer busy in a chase didn't get rewarded for it, either. They're often still barely rewarded for it. The second stage of being on the hook does reward points, so at least there's that.
Killers lose points for things out of their control, too. That's a problem with this game. RNG and other players have way too much influence on your own points. As survivor, it often feels like my teammates have a bigger impact on my points than I do it feels. It's extremely frustrating.
The reward system in this game needs a rework. A lot of things in this game need a rework. Killers are not required to let survivors get off the hook. Nowhere is that said to be required of the killer. If a killer lets the survivor off the hook, they're playing nice. If survivors were meant to be guaranteed three chances, then the game would be designed differently. If the game wants killers to not camp, it needs to be designed differently. The game gives the killer the option of keeping someone on the hook until they're dead, so some killers take that option.
Camping the hook is actually the most intuitive way to play the game. Most times in life, you do one task, you complete that task, you move on to the next task. Spreading your attention between all four survivors and pressuring gens, that's not intuitive, and the game certainly doesn't teach killers to do it. So again, if killers aren't allowed to camp, the game's design has to be changed.
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@jaawn said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2882446#Comment_2882446
No, you're misunderstanding. It's not about gameplay preferences, camping is blocking someone from being able to play *at all*. There is a huge difference.
No, the survivor is playing. They're on the hook. That's part of the gameplay of being survivor. The survivor not enjoying that part of the gameplay is irrelevant, you can't ban someone for doing their objective within the game's rules just because you don't find their objective fun. You go in knowing that you can end up on the hook. If you don't like being on a hook, don't play survivor in Dead by Daylight.
If the killer is camping the hook, then the other survivors are free to do gens, which means the survivor on the hook is actually helping their team by keeping the killer busy. Some survivors keep the killer busy by leading him on a long chase, some survivors keep them busy by dangling on a meat hook. Preferring to keep the killer busy in a chase rather than on a hook is a preference.
Being on a hook is part of playing, so being camped on a hook isn't preventing you from playing. You are playing by being on a hook, it just doesn't feel very interactive. That's the truth of it. It sucks, but that's how the game's designed.
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So, if the killer stops me from doing gens, I should be able to report them because the only thing I enjoy doing is gens? I mean, if the killer doesn't let me work on the gen, they are totally interfering with my ability to enjoy the game.
(If it's not obvious, I'm being sarcastic, because what each person "enjoys" is completely subjective and not something that can be forced upon other players.)
I know being hooked isn't fun and I've complained about that multiple times on these forums, but it is part of normal gameplay. Let me stress this: the survivor being on a hook is part of the gameplay. A killer's goal is to put survivors on hooks. A survivor being blocked in a corner unable to die or work on gens is not part of normal gameplay, because forcing a survivor to stand around for ten minutes doing nothing is nobody's objective.
No one likes being camped on the hook, but it's not bannable. No matter how you try to reinterpret the rules, it's not bannable. Can you imagine if it were? Every single match would result in a report because the killer didn't immediately walk away from the hook, and the staff at BHVR would actually have to look at each and every support ticket. It would completely clog up the report system. It's not enforceable.
Don't criticize the players who are playing within the game's rules. Criticize the game mechanics. Being stuck on a hook unable to do anything isn't fun. Being slugged unable to do anything isn't fun. And being taken out of a game within 60 seconds of loading in isn't fun. Wait, why is anyone playing survivor at all?
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@SS007 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2881934#Comment_2881934
Thank you for explaining and yeah the emblem system is weird I had matches before that I did really good ram around the map like a maniac did tons of chases and hooks and kills but didn't pip at all it I agree killers like nurse don't pip easily.
Yeah, you can be good at killing with a certain killer but not good at pipping with the same killer. It's one of those things that takes emblem knowledge and experimentation. It's a numbers game with needing a certain number of hooks and a certain number of won chases. And of course the Gatekeeper emblem, which benefits from gens going slowly, which is part of why inefficient survivors are so valuable when trying to pip.
This goes towards why I found getting to Iri 1 to not be worth the trouble. Pipping requires dragging out the match to get hooks and win chases while also preventing gens from getting done, which becomes a micro-managing nightmare if survivors are halfway decent. I also had too many matches where someone died on their first hook or disconnected, and then I had to inflate my Chaser emblem by slugging the remaining survivors at least once each before killing them to make sure I minimized the number of points that one survivor cost me. It would happen multiple times in a row, which led to me being quite annoyed that I had to kill to avoid depipping but probably couldn't pip up so I was just increasing my MMR while my grade stagnated and the matches went on for what felt like an eternity. Someone dying early damns the remaining survivors in terms of escaping, but it also damns the killer in terms of pipping. It was a huge relief if I managed to squeeze a pip out of a match with an early death/disconnect.
Nurse is a weird one due to her slow speed. Survivors are constantly gaining enough distance during chases that the game no longer actually considers them to be in a chase, which means the Nurse lost that chase. Then she gets closer and it starts a new chase, and the cycle continues until the survivor goes down or the Nurse focuses on someone else. If you're not a god-tier Nurse getting constant immediate downs, you're probably going to struggle with pipping. (I don't know for sure, though, because Nurse is practically impossible to play on console. I haven't played her since she had that power bar added to her Blinks.)
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@SS007 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2881171#Comment_2881171
Thank you for the information I have one question bI didn't understand if I don't kill anyone but hook everyone as much as I can I can pip ? The only problem is that they will finish gens quickly and no more hooks. And yeah I agree with you in many aspects I really hope these tests help them decide what's better for the game, I personally shared my feedback daily too :).
The requirements for pipping change as you get to higher grades, getting more and more difficult. When you're in the Ash levels, you can probably pip without killing anyone. By the time you get to Iri, pipping requires kills.
But, my recommendation is that each time you reach a new grade (for example, going from Silver III to Silver II) you should play a few games where you don't try to pip. You cannot depip from Silver II back to Silver III, so there's no reason not to take a breather. Go for some matches without killing anyone and let your MMR go down. MMR is based solely on kills and has nothing to do with pips or grades. If you keep your MMR low, then hopefully you'll get survivors who are slower on gens and that alone will make pipping so much easier.
Reading this thread, I saw you understand the basics of how to pip (like that camping penalizes you), but if you have any questions about the specifics of the emblem system then feel free to ask. The emblem system has been unintuitive since before I started playing back in 2018. For example, a lot of people don't realize that playing a killer with a one-hit down can make pipping more difficult: Plague, Bubba, Ghostface, Myers, etc. hurt their own Chaser emblem by using their power. If you've ever wondered why a Trapper hits someone who's already stuck in a trap, it's because otherwise he doesn't get points for winning a chase. Legion, meanwhile, is basically guaranteed to get an iridescent Chaser emblem if he stabs people in feral frenzy, because each stab counts as winning a chase. (Legion suffers in the Malicious emblem, though, which penalizes killers when survivors heal, and I'm pretty sure Legion gets punished twice over because of the Deep Wound state. The Malicious emblem is the one I personally find most difficult to deal with; getting 4 kills is basically what's going to get it to gold or iri so it's like the annoying twin of the Devout emblem.)
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@SS007 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2881084#Comment_2881084
Thank you for your amazing comments I appreciate it I wish everyone commented In such polite way
Np :)
Besides the normal "get better" or "play Nurse/Blight" suggestions, there are a few other things that might help you pip while also avoiding high-MMR hell. These are how I got to Iri 1 as killer. If you already know this stuff, I apologize; you mentioned being new. (I also apologize that you got sucked into this game. It is extremely punishing for new players, and honestly I'm not sure it actually gets better once you gain experience.)
One thing to keep in mind is that every killer has their own somewhat-separate MMR. So, if you want to lower your MMR, you have to do it with the killer you'll be playing as. Memeing with Pig to get easier matches as Doctor won't work very well.
I'm sure you noticed that you can depip within a grade but can't depip to a lower grade. So, each time you make it to the next grade, go for a bunch of matches without killing anyone. Killing and killing alone is what raises MMR. Your grade is completely separate and unrelated to your MMR. All that stuff you do to pip, all those hooks you get, those are irrelevant to matchmaking, so feel free to continue practicing and getting better even when you're not killing. Try to enjoy those matches, throw seriousness out the window if you need to and remind yourself it's just a game.
If you're getting matches with experienced survivors despite letting everyone go for many matches in a row, then it's just not your day. Whenever the queue gets long, it starts throwing basically anyone together regardless of skill level to get them into a match. Your MMR becomes pretty much irrelevant when that happens. Unfortunately, this may be the main problem you're running into, and there's no getting around it except playing on different days or at different times of the day.
Yeah, that's cheesing the system, but I see nothing wrong with it when the system is bad in so many ways. The better solution would be for BHVR to improve their skill-based matchmaking system and fix emblems/pipping, but that could be a long time away if it ever even happens, and it's not something we the players have any control over, so in the meantime there's cheesing it.
No one asked, but if you're curious, I reached Iri 1 as Nemesis on PS4 with cross-play on in the North America region (I think East coast?). I used the perks Lightborn, Beast of Prey, BBQ, and either Distressing or Starstruck (Starstruck is good for ensuring you get hooks, but it can hurt the Chaser emblem). No add-ons. In case it's not obvious, that's not a good build. If you equip actually useful perks, you'll make it easier on yourself. Most killers should run at least one gen slowdown perk.
If you don't care about pipping and just want to have fun, then letting survivors go is your best bet to getting better matches. I've had times where I killed one survivor and suddenly my matches were filled with people running the meta. Pipping and having fun in the game shouldn't be mutually exclusive, but in my opinion they unfortunately are.
Like you mentioned, BHVR is testing new matchmaking systems, so if you had good matches before but aren't having good matches now it's hopefully just temporary. BHVR's skill-based matchmaking has been unpopular since the day it released, so I'm kind of glad to see they're working on it but also every time BHVR touches anything I get worried they'll make things worse. All we can do is wait and see, really, and give them feedback when they do these tests.
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@SS007 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2881058#Comment_2881058
Yeah I just want to hit rank 1 both in survivor and killer at least once or twice then I won't care that much anymore gold is good enough for bp rewards
I don't think I've ever reached Iri 1 as survivor. I struggled even to hit gold during the months I tried. Teammates are too inconsistent. Killer was rather easy to reach Iri 1 on, really, I didn't have to rely on teammates to pip, but it wasn't fun. One million BP for Iri 1 is nice, but then I spend it and it seems like I unlock so little for all that effort, so... yeah, it only took two months for the ridiculous grind and the stress of pipping to burn me out and convince me the grade rewards aren't worth it.
That's just me, though. With all sincerity, I hope you're able to get more out of grade rewards than I did.
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what's the point of pressuring gens
There is none, pressuring gens is boring. Make the game something different, play your own thing. Hide-and-seek where the killer is the one hiding is good fun. I also like to play gate defender, where I open one exit gate and then guard the other.
If your goal is to pip, then I'm sorry, but that's a miserable ride. After two months in a row of getting to Iri 1 as killer, I just... I don't think I can do it again. Screw the BP. It's stressful; playing to win isn't fun in this game. If the devs completely got rid of depipping, it wouldn't be quite so bad, but being able to depip amps the stress level way up.
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I'll do stuff like this, yeah. It's great to do as Myers, just stay in tier 1 and no Insidious needed. Yamaoka is amusing because there I can literally hide in bushes.
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@Tryharder said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2864374#Comment_2864374
This why I quit, I surprised nobody talk about how bad legion is especially on console with the constant freezes. You miss on attack and your stunned for 5 seconds lol. Meanwhile survivors got instant deadhard and instant 360 that you auto aim cannot even track properly lol
I've actually complained about that numerous times on these forums, how Legion stunning himself out of his power when he whiffs is absolutely unacceptable on console where whiffing is unavoidable due to the fps, frame drops, controls, etc. The response (or lack thereof) makes me think either no one listens or no one cares. It sucks, because Legion has some of the best cosmetics, but I find playing as them miserable, especially when their power isn't that great in the first place. It's definitely not good enough to justify having such a heavy punishment placed on it.
Usually, when I mention how poorly things work on console, I'm told by someone that only PC matters and things shouldn't be balanced based on console, like taking both into consideration is impossible.
Legion, for example, originally had no missed attack cooldown while in his power, and now a missed attack stuns him and takes him completely out of his power. There's middle ground! He could just have a missed attack cooldown. I don't know why it went from one extreme to another.