The_Crusader
The_Crusader
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I don't think it's DS giving them an ego, I just think that toxic people are really drawn to decisive strike.Nickenzie said:
I'm not that great in chases as a survivor but I have experienced as a killer how damaging a DS can be when you spent so much time earning your hook. Additionally, I also hate the ego that Decisive Strike gives to survivors.Lowbei said:
yeah, 4 is a bit much considering i can loop most killers for long enough to finish most of the gens before one down. i often get the killers attention on purpose from the start so i can max boldness, and not have to run into already broken pallets during my run, and often im getting hooked for the first time as the last gen goes off.Nickenzie said:
The perk just needs to be more like Deliverance, where you need to do something in order to gain a benefit from it. Currently when a survivor uses DS, they technically have 4 lives. Decisive Strike, phase 1, phase 2, and then finally they are dead.Lowbei said:
agreed, or just cost the ds user one hook level at its use, thus straight to struggle on first, or dead if 2nd.powerbats said:@Lowbei said:
i would support a change that required a condition to be met to activate DS.I think you'd need to take out the Obsession chance increase since if the killer knows you have it they'll just make sure you don't get the requirements to use it.
Perhaps make it so the person has to do an Altruistic action in order to use it although you'd have people fighting for unhooks at that point. Which from a killers point of view is a good thing since it's more targets and less gen progression.
You could also make it specific to either healing others or unhooking and not self healing with SC or a Medkit. So if you unhook it increases your chances to struggle by x % and heals does it by x as well with unhooks being worth more.
But make a cap on how much you could get % wise overall on the struggle % increase.
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It's garbage becauss it robs you of your hard work. They shouldn't be escaping from a pick up at all outside of flashlight saves or the killer not making it to a hook.
I fear it will be even worse now the hooks will be further apart. All the non-obsessions will easily hit their 35%
I liked the idea of it being an item - an ultra, ultra rare item mind. That way it wouldn't be in every single game. -
Yeah I get that slugging to avoid a hatch stand off is a tactic, I'm fine with that.Dreamnomad said:@The_Crusader said:
Is this reportable? or is this part of the game?
It's part of the game. Slugging the second to last survivor is a basic strategy to avoid a hatch stand off situation. If you know the killer is camping the slugged survivor then you should be looking for the hatch so you can take it when the survivor bleeds out. But if the survivor crawls toward you while bleeding out then it isn't reportable.
I'm talking about when a survivor purposefully crawls towards you to rat out your location. They can take forever to bleed out. That's the problem. They can crawl from one end of the map to the other, so you have no chance of getting the hatch because the killer follows them knowing they're going towards you.
Seems a bit toxic and against the team spirit if they work with the killer to show him your location. There's little you can do either.
I mean if I see the killer walking around looking for me that's fine and I'd try to rescue the survivor if hes not being followed but I'm talking about situations where the killer just slowly follows the crawling survivor as he crawls from one side of the map to the other to show the killer your location. You're only caught then because your teammate purposefully gave away your location. -
I like it in theory but I'm fed up of having ######### game after ######### game. It's either someone disconnects in the first 30 seconds leaving a 3 vs 1 game, or the killer just facecamps all game.
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People always rate him so low and I agree he's nothing special but as someone who always uses M1 killers, his chainsaw alone means he isn't as abysmal as people make out.
Think of all the times survivors try to gang up on you, he can sort that. Hell if you catch a survivor out in the open you can end the chase before it begins.
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The thing is a lot of killers don't use NOED. I don't use it on my mains, only use it if I have no other viable perks unlocked.
I think most of us prefer to earn our kills during the game rather than rely on a last minute crutch. Especially when survivors can disable it before it activates, though that isn't too common as most just gen rush. That and the fact that once you hit one with it the rest tend to bolt straight out of the door.
It is the equivalent of DS and Adrenaline though. I mean if surviviors can gain +1 health state with a perk, then killers should be able to -1 health state with a perk. That said NOED is only on some killers whereas DS/Adrenaline is on every single damn survivor.
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5 maybe, 6 would be too OP.
Probably be better if survivors lost a perk rather than gain one though.
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I'd be happy if they just stopped them spawning right next to survivors.
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LOL no.
Do you think the survivors really care about crutch perks when they're bringing 3 decisive strikes into the game?
No, then you shouldn't care about NOED either.
I don't always take it because I try to get more work done during the game. NOED can get you at least 1 kill definitely, but often it causes the other survivors to bolt out of the exit gates. However it's good for making up time lost due to crutch perks like DS and Adrenaline.
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Least
3) Cannibal - Show me a cannibal who doesn't camp and tunnel and I'll show you a monkey who can fly.
2) Wraith - How to play Wraith
- Hook survivor
- Go invisible
- Wait right next to the survivor for an unhook so you can tunnel
- repeat
Or if they're feeling really bold, they might camp the hook and try to take out whoever comes for the rescue.
1) Pig
How to play Pig
Hook survivor
Use stealth to get rid of terror radius
Tunnel the hell out of unhooked survivor
RepeatAlso make sure to spend your entire game stalking the jigsaw boxes to tunnel survivors rather than you know....going for the survivors who are actually doing generators. Genius.
Yeah you can see a common theme among the killers I dislike. It's not the killers it's just that a lot of people can't think of or are too lazy to use their power in an interesting way other than to camp and tunnel.
Honorable mention goes to trapper, who walks in a circle of approx 30m around every hooked survivor just waiting to tunnel.
Most
Nurse and Myers. They're the only ones who don't spend the entire game going for the strategy of camp & tunnel. I hate Freddy but at least they never seem to C&T either.
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The leatherface avatar fits.
I can see what they're saying about the first part. Some killers just circle the hook over and over again - just waiting for someone to unhook so they can tunnel the hell out of the unhooked survivor. It's incredibly toxic.
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Thanks. To be fair these guys weren't too bothered, one seemed angry but he was only typing in Russian so who knows lol
I've had previous games though when they cry about perks or add ons meanwhile 3 of them have D-strike and a few insta-heal med kits. Seriously?
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@Eveline said:
So now UE is not toxic? Color me surprised.I think it's great. It gives survivors another way to avoid a killer, and allows people to play stealthy. Its far better than everyone running to the nearest loop.
DS is toxic because it undoes the killers hard work. It robs the killer of their reward for their effort - that being a hook.
Urban evasion does not. It's not a get out of jail free card, it still requires skill and knowledge of where and how to hide.
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Guy couldn't hook me when the exit gates were open because other survivors had sabotaged nearby hooks. I got told to "#########". Like what did I do ? lol
edit #########? The forums censor what I typed to (bad word), and yet they don't bother to censor the in-game chat which is the source of all this? you have got to be kidding me
edit 2: Ok after I edited this it seems to have uncensored the word for some strange reason. Very bizarre.
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@Eveline said:
I find noed, devour hope and moris same as some survivor stuff that killers find op.Look at this. DS can only be used once unlike noed or devour hope. Now killers will jump in to say but totems can be easily find which is not a case in every game with different teammates. Sometimes as a survivor you can't counter the killer depending on the team but I don't go around saying killers are op.
lmfao
Devour Hope in 99.9% of cases is gone LONG beofore even 3 tokens pops up, nevermind 5.
NOED I would agree with it's very strong and can feel very cheap. Though as people say it can be countered before it even activates. Decisive Strike can not. Plus you usually get multiple DS per game and it's quite common to be hit with it twice due to hook placement. That's 2 extra chases and hits required which is equivalent to chasing a survivor from full health but not getting a hook out of it. It can add the time of an extra generator on if there's a good pallet/loop nearby.
I play killer and survivor and killer is by far the more stressful. I'd gladly get rid of NOED if we could be done with DS, Adrenaline and all those kind of perks.
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@projecteulogy said:
@Justicar said:
@projecteulogy said:
Survivors have two choices. "Immersed" Stealth or "Brain dead" looping. Currently, playing Stealth(how i like to) yields next to no BP/Pip. Looping grants survivors tons of Bloodpoints. There's no denying it. There's more than 1000 videos on Twitch and Youtube proving this.They're removing even more pallets on the PTB and "balancing" it with making hooks spawn ONLY outside of 24m of each other unless Offerings are used. Point is, killers ######### about Genrushing and Looping.. the only 2 tools a survivor has to "win" the game. Meanwhile, killers resort to slugging to prevent any sort of hatch escape and/or tunnel and camp survivors they find a "threat".
What exactly do you want survivors to do? Just stand there and let you down them thus creating a killer's version of a M1 Simulator? lol Until the developer actually gives a ######### about Looping, you're stuck with it.
I personally prefer playing stealthy, partly because I'm bad at looping, but mostly because I prefer that form of gameplay. Unfortunately, this game greatly promotes looping over stealth, so it feels like self-gimping. I'd really like to see do a pure gameplay update that expands survivor objectives and gameplay options instead of just adding another killer/survivor combo.
See this is exactly what i'm wanting. Instead the killer AND survivor community calls people "bad" because they can't/don't loop. Its a trashy tactic that i can't stand when I play killer. So why adopt it and join the crowd? Instead, i'd like to see the developer at least add a Stealth Category(Evader is not Stealth. End of story lol) and a similar one for killers.
Looping needs to be dissolved and camping/slugging needs to be deterred in some way
This is what I've always thought. I like Urban evasion as a survivor AND as a killer. I think it's good when survivors play stealth, it leads to some epic moments when you're behind a tree and the killer walks right past without noticing you and you're heart is beating.
Or when a survivor breaks line of sight and somehow disappears behind a wall with a juke, that impresses me.
Running around a loop in comparison takes minimal skill and sadly is one of the most effective things a survivor can do.
I said on the survey that they need to move away from looping and move towards helping survivors break line of sight or hide.
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A rank 14 nurse?
most nurses above rank 10 aren't very good. Those are my easiest games. They aren't too adept with her ability. I actually enjoy nurse games the most because I know they will be easy.
Hillbilly....now he's a bugger.
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@Warlock_2020 said:
Tyde is correct on much of what he says, but he does not get that this game is broken into two games. There is the high-end game, and the low-end game. The bulk of the players are on the mid to low end. He is judging the game from the top. If we treat all levels from that view, we lose the bulk of players. A lot of good a balanced game with no player base is. That's called a dead game. Dead by balance.At the top, the survivors are very powerful and filled with skilled players. But Dead by Daylight is a bit unique in that it attracts players that don't usually play competitive games due to its horror genre. Therefore, many players are not very good at the whole survivor thing, nor will they ever get better due to other priorities or just skill limit in general. For instance, my wife loves the game, but she is legally blind and suffers from the ravages of pancreatic cancer. She will NEVER be a top-tier player. She has nearly quit several times due to the insane amount of camping in tier 16-20. Luckily, I've staved that off. This game has attracted players of all age brackets, and can easily lose them too.
At the bottom, those players are way overpowered by killers. Why do you think the camping nerf exists? Not because it is a cheap tactic, like Tyde said, it is a legit tactic vs top-tier players. But it is massively used by low-skilled killers to destroy low-skilled survivors that will likely never improve (see statement above). So, the player base begins to shrink, rank 14-20 survivors start to quit or switch to killer because they are tired of being camped and tunneled an not getting to experience the game. To those people (again, the bulk of the people paying $), the game is about that fear of running around, trying to do a gen, getting a chance to have fun. Not entering a map, getting caught, and camped/tunneled without ever doing anything.
That is why the developers really need to look at tiered nerfs/buffs. Stop punishing all killers/survivors with nerfs. Look at nerfing SWFs at higher ranks. Look at nerfing camping based on rank, or better yet, encourage a more hunting/chasing gameplay by killers at the level. Give them more rewards for leaving the hook, and hooking a different survivor each time. That increases the enjoyment of that casual base (which is typically larger than the hardcore) while being able to focus on making the high-end more balanced.
It would take more effort and thought than these developers are willing to do though. But, Tyde needs to remember that most of the players in this game will never achieve his level of gameplay. That is why his view is so narrow in scope.
Pretty much this. I'm high rank killer and low rank survivor so I see both issues. Survivors are straight up OP at high rank with all their perks and teamwork and ridiculous loops. In a 1 on 1 situation their perks are ok, the problem is that across 4 survivors it stacks into ridiculously overwhelming odds against the killer as many perks are all capable of wasting so much of the killers time - put that onto people who know how to "rush gens" and it's game over. Survivors should have like 3 perks each, totaling 12 giving the killer 4 which would be a third of their perks rather than a quarter. It's daft that survivors and killers have an equal number of perks when there are 4 survivors and 1 killer.
As a survivor I find it hard to level up playing solo. Almost every single game someone disconnects and screws over out team. Seriously, every 2/3 games sometimes you'll see someone downed in the first 30 seconds and them bam, disconnect. 5 gens with 3 people, much fun! if it isn't that then you just get camping/tunneling killers. The problem is that at low rank it works because people feed them. Someone will rush in for the rescue like 2 seconds after the hook, they get downed. A third person goes in, fails again, downed. That's it, game over. To be fair sometimes the killer plays a part, they'll circle around the hooks just wating for someone to unhook so they can tunnel. To the person being tunnelled they've earned no points, gone straight on the hook, and from how the killer is playing it seems they'll never be able to get away from the hook so in a way I don't blame some for disconnecting. A lot of games end with me getting the hatch after my team has fallen prey to a camping/tunneling killer by being too altruistic, or people will quit out and then sometimes I quit because why should I have a crappy game just because other people quit in the first 30 seconds? what benefit to me is it to stay in a game like that? where I'm at a disadvantage through no fault of my own? it's easier for me to re-roll and try and get a game with full people. People can cry but screw it, I paid for a 4 vs 1 game and I get that not every game is going to be like that but again some nights every 2/3 games, someone will disconnect before the 1st hook. If they quit 30 seconds earlier while loading at least it would be 4 gens for 3 people.
They need to start knocking gens off if people disconnect early. Punishing camping/tunneling killers is also a step in the right direction. They really need to work on balancing the high end too though. A bit of extra time on the gens, NOT HAVING SURVIVORS SPAWN NEXT TO TOTEMS, taking away a perk or removing the BS perks like DS.
There's literally no benefit to playing killer against SWF. It's especially daft if you're running totems because once one person sees your totem they'll tell their friends where it is. Yet it rewards the same amount of BP? it's easy to see why people lobby dodge.
That said with how many people disconnect matches it's easy to see why playing solo can be pointless.
It's a hard thing to balance but since voice communication is a survivors biggest strength there needs to be rewards for playing against parties.
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But if you can't hook this person, you just wasted x amount of time chasing them while they do their stupid loops. Plus remember you've got 12 hooks to get in a very limited amount of time.
It's ridiculous how they can just steal them out from right under your nose. Just have them regress slowly like a generator does when kicked.
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@SpiritFeng said:
Fun fact, survivors PM me, when they all made it out alive and write "GG" to me. Sure, it's a GG, when they've an easy time counter the Spirit. I am about to stop playing the spirit and return back to the "OP" killers again.
Money wasted and time wasted into her.LOL it's DBD. Of course you only get a "GG" if they make it out.
Only once in a blue moon do you ever get a "GG" if you win, normally they accuse you of camping/tunneling/hacking/being psychic/performing witchcraft.
edit: I watched your first video. At one point you go the wrong side of some hay for Meg when she can clearly be heard on the other side of it. Since you're playing on console, I'm assuming you're using TV speakers? I'm on PC using headphones. Perhaps headphones would help, they play a big role in a game like this but especially on the spirit when you're going by sounds as you can more easily tell the directions of the survivors in this way.
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Nurse.
I haven't bothered to learn her yet, but I really like her design and power. The spirit design and power is really good too.
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Bill.
I hate Laurie and Quentin. All the toxic people use Laurie for DS, and the tryhards seem to be using Quentin now.
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Because they use her for Decisive Strike and it's often the most toxic people who use that perk. I mean the perk itself is annoying but I think the hate for it is even worse since it's always the most toxic, teabagging people who use the perk. You never get nice players using it.
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2 and 2 doesn't really bother me.
It's parties of 3 or 4 where it starts to get annoying. In that case the least they could do is hide the killers perks until the end of the game.
In terms of balance....I don't know, slight reduction in pallets? slow down to healing speed?
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@ClogWench said:
So this isn't actually about the Wraith at all. It's just campers doing what they do. Not really much they can do about that though. There is a penalty to just standing there, it's called they only get one kill.No, it's about the Wraith.
As annoying as Freddy is, I don't think I've seen Freddy users camp.
Hillbilly users - no camps.
Leatherface - maybe 7/8 out of 10 constantly circle the hooked survivor radius.
With the Wraith it's like 99.9% of them just go invisible and face camp. It's the Wraith's ability which makes people do this. They wouldn't do it with another killer because they can't go invisible, except freddy but I guess he's less efficient than the Wraith when it comes to that thats why they don't bother.
Like I said it's either they get 1 kill and everyone else has a boring game doing gens unchallenged, or people decide to throw themselves at him like lemmings and he gets multiple kills.