The Decisive Strike Problem (Rework)

NMCKE

I know that you killer mains are very upset and enraged that the Decisive Strike nerf didn't hit the PTB but you gotta think about the other side as well. Now before you get you pitch forks and torches for me saying that, allow me to explain before you bombard me with LOL's!

The Problem With Decisive Strike:

This perk allows a "Free" get out of jail card to the survivor using it.

How to Fix Decisive Strike Without Making the Perk Useless:

Let's look at Deliverance, a perk that makes you work for a get out of jail card and notice this time that I didn't say "Free" like I did above with the Decisive Strike problem. Deliverance has multiple amount of various variables limiting it from being a "Free" get out of jail card. Let's look at the conditions of the perk as well as the penalties afterward from using the perk:

Deliverance:
-Needs a condition to activate: Safe Unhook
-You will still move to the second phase of sacrifice due to the hook mechanics
-Has a penalty after using it: Broken Status Effect
-Can be completely useless if you are hooked first since you can only perform the "Attempt escape" action during the "Summoning" phase.
-Incorrectly using the perk can result in you going straight to the "Struggle" phase.

Now, since we got a general understanding on why Deliverance is a balanced get out of jail card, let's apply our knowledge to Decisive Strike.

Decisive Strike:
When you are within 36 meters from the killer for a total of 100/80/60 seconds and not in a chase, this perk will activate. If the perk is activated and the killer picks you up, immediately stun the killer for 5 seconds and automatically wiggle free from the killer's grasp. A successful Decisive Strike will cause you to suffer a 60 second bleed-out timer. Decisive Strike will be permanently disabled if you are hooked at anytime. Increases your chances of becoming the killer's obsession.

Some things to consider with this version:
-You'll immediately stun the killer and escape their grasp after the pick up animation is finished meaning no skill check or dribbling.
-You'll not be informed about your progress to activating this perk since it could give away stealth killers but the perk will light up when it's activated.

Why is This Version of Decisive Strike More Balanced?

This version has a condition, a risk, and a penalty after using the perk. This perk is exactly like Deliverance or a better way to explain it, it's now the survivor's version of a Hex perk. You either waste a perk slot or you can get tremendous value if you follow these conditions!

What do you all think? Please leave your civil comments below!

Captain_Spaulding

Will it still give the obsession status though? Without that being there I think it would be a little more balanced because I know a lot of people tend to just ignore that person in general till they're the last one alive.

The_Fallen_Utopia

An interesting idea to change decisive strike.. but what if you're against the Wraith or Shape? Those two can have no terror radius or a very low one. Wraith is less a problem since he has to uncloak first. Also Huntress actually has quite a small terror radius thinking about it. Not sure how to work around them though. 

Edit: Forgot the Pig can also get no terror radius. 

NMCKE

Captain_Spaulding said:

Will it still give the obsession status though? Without that being there I think it would be a little more balanced because I know a lot of people tend to just ignore that person in general till they're the last one alive.

Yes, if you use this perk, it will increase your chances of becoming the killer's obsession. I know that killer's currently ignore the obsession but they wouldn't with this rework since they may not have been in your terror radius for 60 seconds. Even if they didn't get stunned, the survivor can't loop forever so it's a win-win depending on the situation.

NMCKE

The_Fallen_Utopia said:

An interesting idea to change decisive strike.. but what if you're against the Wraith or Shape? Those two can have no terror radius or a very low one. Wraith is less a problem since he has to uncloak first. Also Huntress actually has quite a small terror radius thinking about it. Not sure how to work around them though. 

Edit: Forgot the Pig can also get no terror radius. 

It could be changed to a 32 meter range from the killer but the perk won't tell you if you're making progress towards activating the perk since it would ruin stealth killers. However it will light up if it's ready to be used tho.

Thank you for pointing that out!

PhantomMask20763

I actually kinda like this idea. I'm perfectly fine with the survivor having to work for a second chance which is why I'm a fan of deliverance and hate dstrike. Deliverance reward you for saving your teammates and dstrike rewards you for failing. I could say the same about noed but that can be defeated easily by the survivors 

The_Fallen_Utopia

Nickenzie said:

The_Fallen_Utopia said:

An interesting idea to change decisive strike.. but what if you're against the Wraith or Shape? Those two can have no terror radius or a very low one. Wraith is less a problem since he has to uncloak first. Also Huntress actually has quite a small terror radius thinking about it. Not sure how to work around them though. 

Edit: Forgot the Pig can also get no terror radius. 

It could be changed to a 32 meter range from the killer but the perk won't tell you if you're making progress towards activating the perk since it would ruin stealth killers. However it will light up if it's ready to be used tho.

Thank you for pointing that out!

No problem. I think this version of Decisive would be much better and fits better with the risk vs reward theme that obsession perks are supposed to have. And it doesn't make it useless. Good job with this suggestion

NMCKE

PhantomMask20763 said:

I actually kinda like this idea. I'm perfectly fine with the survivor having to work for a second chance which is why I'm a fan of deliverance and hate dstrike. Deliverance reward you for saving your teammates and dstrike rewards you for failing. I could say the same about noed but that can be defeated easily by the survivors 

Yeah, that's the problem with Decisive Strike. It's a "Free" get out of jail free card, it's needs to have a condition and penalty after using the perk.

NMCKE

The_Fallen_Utopia said:

Nickenzie said:

The_Fallen_Utopia said:

An interesting idea to change decisive strike.. but what if you're against the Wraith or Shape? Those two can have no terror radius or a very low one. Wraith is less a problem since he has to uncloak first. Also Huntress actually has quite a small terror radius thinking about it. Not sure how to work around them though. 

Edit: Forgot the Pig can also get no terror radius. 

It could be changed to a 32 meter range from the killer but the perk won't tell you if you're making progress towards activating the perk since it would ruin stealth killers. However it will light up if it's ready to be used tho.

Thank you for pointing that out!

No problem. I think this version of Decisive would be much better and fits better with the risk vs reward theme that obsession perks are supposed to have. And it doesn't make it useless. Good job with this suggestion

Yeah, I hopefully that the developers will take this direction with perk! It seriously needs a condition and a penalty when you use the perk.

The_Fallen_Utopia

Nickenzie said:

The_Fallen_Utopia said:

Nickenzie said:

The_Fallen_Utopia said:

An interesting idea to change decisive strike.. but what if you're against the Wraith or Shape? Those two can have no terror radius or a very low one. Wraith is less a problem since he has to uncloak first. Also Huntress actually has quite a small terror radius thinking about it. Not sure how to work around them though. 

Edit: Forgot the Pig can also get no terror radius. 

It could be changed to a 32 meter range from the killer but the perk won't tell you if you're making progress towards activating the perk since it would ruin stealth killers. However it will light up if it's ready to be used tho.

Thank you for pointing that out!

No problem. I think this version of Decisive would be much better and fits better with the risk vs reward theme that obsession perks are supposed to have. And it doesn't make it useless. Good job with this suggestion

Yeah, I hopefully that the developers will take this direction with perk! It seriously needs a condition and a penalty when you use the perk.

I wouldn't mind seeing more high risk vs reward perks for both sides honestly. I can't think of any killer ones like that right now except Bloodwarden I guess. But usually I enjoy running perks that will either do nothing or completely change the match. For killers I mean. Bloodwarden is one of my favourite perks for that reason. 

DocFabron

This would definitely take out the completely free aspect of Decisive while retaining it's usefulness.

As usual, well done @Nickenzie!

NMCKE

Doc_W__HOLLIDAY said:

This would definitely take out the completely free aspect of Decisive while retaining it's usefulness.

As usual, well done @Nickenzie!

Hopefully the developers will take this direction with Decisive Strike!

KingB

The biggest problem with decisive is there isn't any counterplay. This is a good idea but fails to address the core problem of the perk. I respectfully disagree and I don't think this sloves the killers' complaints about DS. I think the better idea is to stun the killer for X seconds and fill XX% of the wiggle bar.

NMCKE

KingB said:

The biggest problem with decisive is there isn't any counterplay. This is a good idea but fails to address the core problem of the perk. I respectfully disagree and I don't think this sloves the killers' complaints about DS. I think the better idea is to stun the killer for X seconds and fill XX% of the wiggle bar.

I respect that you disagree but couldn't you argue the same thing with Deliverance? Like yeah the killer can camp your first Phase but that's giving up the entire map for generator rush.

The_Fallen_Utopia

@KingB While I understand what you mean there.. with the new hook changes and sabo changes even your idea could cause it to be as bad as it is now. At least the one @Nickenzie suggested has to be activated first and comes with quite the downside to counteract the upside.. 

Raccoon

Change Decisive Strike to "Desperate Struggle," make it activate (instant for all) ONLY if the survivor has been hooked twice, make the success zone 5%, and act the same upon success.

Upon failure, the killer auto-moris the survivor, after dropping them in disgust.

You're forced to use it if you meet the requirements, it can still swing games, and it has a huge punishment.

Lowbei

i would support a change that required a condition to be met to activate DS.

NoxiousOnnyyxx

DS doesn't even need to be nerfed. You killers whine about everything. 

powerbats

@Lowbei said:
i would support a change that required a condition to be met to activate DS.

I think you'd need to take out the Obsession chance increase since if the killer knows you have it they'll just make sure you don't get the requirements to use it.

Perhaps make it so the person has to do an Altruistic action in order to use it although you'd have people fighting for unhooks at that point. Which from a killers point of view is a good thing since it's more targets and less gen progression.

You could also make it specific to either healing others or unhooking and not self healing with SC or a Medkit. So if you unhook it increases your chances to struggle by x % and heals does it by x as well with unhooks being worth more.

But make a cap on how much you could get % wise overall on the struggle % increase.

yeet

NoxiousOnnyyxx said:

DS doesn't even need to be nerfed. You killers whine about everything. 

no comment

Lowbei

powerbats said:

@Lowbei said:
i would support a change that required a condition to be met to activate DS.

I think you'd need to take out the Obsession chance increase since if the killer knows you have it they'll just make sure you don't get the requirements to use it.

Perhaps make it so the person has to do an Altruistic action in order to use it although you'd have people fighting for unhooks at that point. Which from a killers point of view is a good thing since it's more targets and less gen progression.

You could also make it specific to either healing others or unhooking and not self healing with SC or a Medkit. So if you unhook it increases your chances to struggle by x % and heals does it by x as well with unhooks being worth more.

But make a cap on how much you could get % wise overall on the struggle % increase.

agreed, or just cost the ds user one hook level at its use, thus straight to struggle on first, or dead if 2nd. 

NMCKE

Lowbei said:

powerbats said:

@Lowbei said:
i would support a change that required a condition to be met to activate DS.

I think you'd need to take out the Obsession chance increase since if the killer knows you have it they'll just make sure you don't get the requirements to use it.

Perhaps make it so the person has to do an Altruistic action in order to use it although you'd have people fighting for unhooks at that point. Which from a killers point of view is a good thing since it's more targets and less gen progression.

You could also make it specific to either healing others or unhooking and not self healing with SC or a Medkit. So if you unhook it increases your chances to struggle by x % and heals does it by x as well with unhooks being worth more.

But make a cap on how much you could get % wise overall on the struggle % increase.

agreed, or just cost the ds user one hook level at its use, thus straight to struggle on first, or dead if 2nd. 

The perk just needs to be more like Deliverance, where you need to do something in order to gain a benefit from it. Currently when a survivor uses DS, they technically have 4 lives. Decisive Strike, phase 1, phase 2, and then finally they are dead.

NoxiousOnnyyxx

yeet said: 

NoxiousOnnyyxx said:

DS doesn't even need to be nerfed. You killers whine about everything. 

no comment

Good.

NMCKE

NoxiousOnnyyxx said:

DS doesn't even need to be nerfed. You killers whine about everything. 

Lol, only if you knew...

Lowbei

Nickenzie said:

Lowbei said:

powerbats said:

@Lowbei said:
i would support a change that required a condition to be met to activate DS.

I think you'd need to take out the Obsession chance increase since if the killer knows you have it they'll just make sure you don't get the requirements to use it.

Perhaps make it so the person has to do an Altruistic action in order to use it although you'd have people fighting for unhooks at that point. Which from a killers point of view is a good thing since it's more targets and less gen progression.

You could also make it specific to either healing others or unhooking and not self healing with SC or a Medkit. So if you unhook it increases your chances to struggle by x % and heals does it by x as well with unhooks being worth more.

But make a cap on how much you could get % wise overall on the struggle % increase.

agreed, or just cost the ds user one hook level at its use, thus straight to struggle on first, or dead if 2nd. 

The perk just needs to be more like Deliverance, where you need to do something in order to gain a benefit from it. Currently when a survivor uses DS, they technically have 4 lives. Decisive Strike, phase 1, phase 2, and then finally they are dead.

yeah, 4 is a bit much considering i can loop most killers for long enough to finish most of the gens before one down. i often get the killers attention on purpose from the start so i can max boldness, and not have to run into already broken pallets during my run, and often im getting hooked for the first time as the last gen goes off.

DexyIV

Honestly there are so many good ways to rework this perk that would take less than half of the time and resources Behaviour is trying to put into it. This is just one of the many good examples. Satisfying without being overwhelmingly oppressive like the current DS is. I agree with the changes across the board.

NMCKE

Lowbei said:

Nickenzie said:

Lowbei said:

powerbats said:

@Lowbei said:
i would support a change that required a condition to be met to activate DS.

I think you'd need to take out the Obsession chance increase since if the killer knows you have it they'll just make sure you don't get the requirements to use it.

Perhaps make it so the person has to do an Altruistic action in order to use it although you'd have people fighting for unhooks at that point. Which from a killers point of view is a good thing since it's more targets and less gen progression.

You could also make it specific to either healing others or unhooking and not self healing with SC or a Medkit. So if you unhook it increases your chances to struggle by x % and heals does it by x as well with unhooks being worth more.

But make a cap on how much you could get % wise overall on the struggle % increase.

agreed, or just cost the ds user one hook level at its use, thus straight to struggle on first, or dead if 2nd. 

The perk just needs to be more like Deliverance, where you need to do something in order to gain a benefit from it. Currently when a survivor uses DS, they technically have 4 lives. Decisive Strike, phase 1, phase 2, and then finally they are dead.

yeah, 4 is a bit much considering i can loop most killers for long enough to finish most of the gens before one down. i often get the killers attention on purpose from the start so i can max boldness, and not have to run into already broken pallets during my run, and often im getting hooked for the first time as the last gen goes off.

I'm not that great in chases as a survivor but I have experienced as a killer how damaging a DS can be when you spent so much time earning your hook. Additionally, I also hate the ego that Decisive Strike gives to survivors.

The_Fallen_Utopia

Nickenzie said:

Lowbei said:

Nickenzie said:

Lowbei said:

powerbats said:

@Lowbei said:
i would support a change that required a condition to be met to activate DS.

I think you'd need to take out the Obsession chance increase since if the killer knows you have it they'll just make sure you don't get the requirements to use it.

Perhaps make it so the person has to do an Altruistic action in order to use it although you'd have people fighting for unhooks at that point. Which from a killers point of view is a good thing since it's more targets and less gen progression.

You could also make it specific to either healing others or unhooking and not self healing with SC or a Medkit. So if you unhook it increases your chances to struggle by x % and heals does it by x as well with unhooks being worth more.

But make a cap on how much you could get % wise overall on the struggle % increase.

agreed, or just cost the ds user one hook level at its use, thus straight to struggle on first, or dead if 2nd. 

The perk just needs to be more like Deliverance, where you need to do something in order to gain a benefit from it. Currently when a survivor uses DS, they technically have 4 lives. Decisive Strike, phase 1, phase 2, and then finally they are dead.

yeah, 4 is a bit much considering i can loop most killers for long enough to finish most of the gens before one down. i often get the killers attention on purpose from the start so i can max boldness, and not have to run into already broken pallets during my run, and often im getting hooked for the first time as the last gen goes off.

I'm not that great in chases as a survivor but I have experienced as a killer how damaging a DS can be when you spent so much time earning your hook. Additionally, I also hate the ego that Decisive Strike gives to survivors.

Though that ego turns into a fountain of salt when you kill that survivor.. Something is very satisfying about that to me. 

NMCKE

DexyIV said:

Honestly there are so many good ways to rework this perk that would take less than half of the time and resources Behaviour is trying to put into it. This is just one of the many good examples. Satisfying without being overwhelmingly oppressive like the current DS is. I agree with the changes across the board.

The survivors mains who desperately want the perk to stay strong can still have their jail free card but they need to work for it. However, I think moving my mouse to the Decisive Strike perk in my inventory and equipping it is working for it right?

Just kidding btw!

NMCKE

The_Fallen_Utopia said:

Nickenzie said:

Lowbei said:

Nickenzie said:

Lowbei said:

powerbats said:

@Lowbei said:
i would support a change that required a condition to be met to activate DS.

I think you'd need to take out the Obsession chance increase since if the killer knows you have it they'll just make sure you don't get the requirements to use it.

Perhaps make it so the person has to do an Altruistic action in order to use it although you'd have people fighting for unhooks at that point. Which from a killers point of view is a good thing since it's more targets and less gen progression.

You could also make it specific to either healing others or unhooking and not self healing with SC or a Medkit. So if you unhook it increases your chances to struggle by x % and heals does it by x as well with unhooks being worth more.

But make a cap on how much you could get % wise overall on the struggle % increase.

agreed, or just cost the ds user one hook level at its use, thus straight to struggle on first, or dead if 2nd. 

The perk just needs to be more like Deliverance, where you need to do something in order to gain a benefit from it. Currently when a survivor uses DS, they technically have 4 lives. Decisive Strike, phase 1, phase 2, and then finally they are dead.

yeah, 4 is a bit much considering i can loop most killers for long enough to finish most of the gens before one down. i often get the killers attention on purpose from the start so i can max boldness, and not have to run into already broken pallets during my run, and often im getting hooked for the first time as the last gen goes off.

I'm not that great in chases as a survivor but I have experienced as a killer how damaging a DS can be when you spent so much time earning your hook. Additionally, I also hate the ego that Decisive Strike gives to survivors.

Though that ego turns into a fountain of salt when you kill that survivor.. Something is very satisfying about that to me. 

Oh yes, I love the salt from Decisive Strike users for some reason. Especially when I play nurse because I can just blink right to them!

The_Fallen_Utopia

Nickenzie said:

The_Fallen_Utopia said:

Nickenzie said:

Lowbei said:

Nickenzie said:

Lowbei said:

powerbats said:

@Lowbei said:
i would support a change that required a condition to be met to activate DS.

I think you'd need to take out the Obsession chance increase since if the killer knows you have it they'll just make sure you don't get the requirements to use it.

Perhaps make it so the person has to do an Altruistic action in order to use it although you'd have people fighting for unhooks at that point. Which from a killers point of view is a good thing since it's more targets and less gen progression.

You could also make it specific to either healing others or unhooking and not self healing with SC or a Medkit. So if you unhook it increases your chances to struggle by x % and heals does it by x as well with unhooks being worth more.

But make a cap on how much you could get % wise overall on the struggle % increase.

agreed, or just cost the ds user one hook level at its use, thus straight to struggle on first, or dead if 2nd. 

The perk just needs to be more like Deliverance, where you need to do something in order to gain a benefit from it. Currently when a survivor uses DS, they technically have 4 lives. Decisive Strike, phase 1, phase 2, and then finally they are dead.

yeah, 4 is a bit much considering i can loop most killers for long enough to finish most of the gens before one down. i often get the killers attention on purpose from the start so i can max boldness, and not have to run into already broken pallets during my run, and often im getting hooked for the first time as the last gen goes off.

I'm not that great in chases as a survivor but I have experienced as a killer how damaging a DS can be when you spent so much time earning your hook. Additionally, I also hate the ego that Decisive Strike gives to survivors.

Though that ego turns into a fountain of salt when you kill that survivor.. Something is very satisfying about that to me. 

Oh yes, I love the salt from Decisive Strike users for some reason. Especially when I play nurse because I can just blink right to them!

I remember killing one by outplaying them as the Hag (pre-buff btw) I managed to catch them by using the traps for mindgames.. apparently outsmarting them made me a "lowlife hacker" All I said was GG EZ and moved on. Despite how much I love the salt I do hope the Decisive nerf lowers their over inflated egos.. 

powerbats

@Nickenzie said:

Oh yes, I love the salt from Decisive Strike users for some reason. Especially when I play nurse because I can just blink right to them!

I always get a laugh when playing both sides when they get picked up and DS right away I mean save it for a 2nd hook when it's really needed. Because more often than not you take a few steps and the killer downs you again.

unknown

This content has been removed.

yeet

Thetruth said:

@yeet said:
NoxiousOnnyyxx said:

DS doesn't even need to be nerfed. You killers whine about everything. 

no comment

yet it's true. Get some skill and stop asking for handicaps

when DS is literally a handicap 🤔

The_Fallen_Utopia

Ironically @Thetruth speaks lies.. There is definitely a lack of counter play for the benefit it gives them. Decisive Strike is the handicap here.. not the changes suggested here.. Get some skill? What? There's no possible counter play except juggling most of the time.. if you can't see that.. Well I'm not sure what to think. 

feffrey

yeet said:

Thetruth said:

@yeet said:
NoxiousOnnyyxx said:

DS doesn't even need to be nerfed. You killers whine about everything. 

no comment

yet it's true. Get some skill and stop asking for handicaps

when DS is literally a handicap 🤔

your heard the man get some skill and stop asking for a handout.
 you're not entitled to a free kill.
you need to do some work for it 

NMCKE

The_Fallen_Utopia said:

Nickenzie said:

The_Fallen_Utopia said:

Nickenzie said:

Lowbei said:

Nickenzie said:

Lowbei said:

powerbats said:

@Lowbei said:
i would support a change that required a condition to be met to activate DS.

I think you'd need to take out the Obsession chance increase since if the killer knows you have it they'll just make sure you don't get the requirements to use it.

Perhaps make it so the person has to do an Altruistic action in order to use it although you'd have people fighting for unhooks at that point. Which from a killers point of view is a good thing since it's more targets and less gen progression.

You could also make it specific to either healing others or unhooking and not self healing with SC or a Medkit. So if you unhook it increases your chances to struggle by x % and heals does it by x as well with unhooks being worth more.

But make a cap on how much you could get % wise overall on the struggle % increase.

agreed, or just cost the ds user one hook level at its use, thus straight to struggle on first, or dead if 2nd. 

The perk just needs to be more like Deliverance, where you need to do something in order to gain a benefit from it. Currently when a survivor uses DS, they technically have 4 lives. Decisive Strike, phase 1, phase 2, and then finally they are dead.

yeah, 4 is a bit much considering i can loop most killers for long enough to finish most of the gens before one down. i often get the killers attention on purpose from the start so i can max boldness, and not have to run into already broken pallets during my run, and often im getting hooked for the first time as the last gen goes off.

I'm not that great in chases as a survivor but I have experienced as a killer how damaging a DS can be when you spent so much time earning your hook. Additionally, I also hate the ego that Decisive Strike gives to survivors.

Though that ego turns into a fountain of salt when you kill that survivor.. Something is very satisfying about that to me. 

Oh yes, I love the salt from Decisive Strike users for some reason. Especially when I play nurse because I can just blink right to them!

I remember killing one by outplaying them as the Hag (pre-buff btw) I managed to catch them by using the traps for mindgames.. apparently outsmarting them made me a "lowlife hacker" All I said was GG EZ and moved on. Despite how much I love the salt I do hope the Decisive nerf lowers their over inflated egos.. 

Sadly some survivors depend on it to win and they think they are good when they tea bag at the gates lol. Overall, DS needs to be nerfed so you need a condition to use.

DocFabron

NoxiousOnnyyxx said:

DS doesn't even need to be nerfed. You killers whine about everything. 

Let me guess, killer is too ez, you 4k as a rank 1 perkless Freddy every game, and pallet looping is a myth. Correct?

feffrey

Doc_W__HOLLIDAY said:

NoxiousOnnyyxx said:

DS doesn't even need to be nerfed. You killers whine about everything. 

Let me guess, killer is too ez, you 4k as a rank 1 perkless Freddy every game, and pallet looping is a myth. Correct?

destroy the pallet? go around the pallet? trap the pallet? find a different survivor?

stop begging for handouts and maybe you'll get good

Mercury

Is it like Diversion though? Couldn't the Survivor just loop you for a whole minute and still get the benefit? This would still be a nightmare for m1 Killers then.

NMCKE

Mercury said:

Is it like Diversion though? Couldn't the Survivor just loop you for a whole minute and still get the benefit? This would still be a nightmare for m1 Killers then.

The perk won't charge up when in a chase, just like Stake Out. I thought that I put that in the Rework, I'll check it again lol.

feffrey

Nickenzie said:

Mercury said:

Is it like Diversion though? Couldn't the Survivor just loop you for a whole minute and still get the benefit? This would still be a nightmare for m1 Killers then.

The perk won't charge up when in a chase, just like Stake Out. I thought that I put that in the Rework, I'll check it again lol.

then it would be even more fun to bully the killer. you are rewarding flashlight saves and body blocking just for them to DS and loop you while the others follow you and save each other . they'll float away and do gens after using DS . I'm more than willing to build up DS and then take aggro from the killer whike other do gens.

CoolAKn

@Nickenzie Survivor main here. Interesting concept you have in regards to Decisive Strike.

CRITIQUES

• Positive: Changes the perk from free-use to earned-use.
• Adjustment: Given this change, the DS skill check should be immune to all modifiers that would make the skill check easier or harder.

• Alternate Adjustment: Have the user just press E at any point while being carried to jump off, that way the killer can't constantly be dropping the survivor to prevent it's use.

• Positive: Charging the perk based on proximity to the killer.

• Adjustment: Change the range to 12/24/36 meters to create a synergy with Spine Chill; if Spine Chill is active, you are charging DS, assuming the tiers are the same.

• Negative: Bleed-out timer upon use.

• Adjustment: Replace bleed-out timer with Broken for 100/80/60 seconds (same values as Deliverance). This change would also keep up with the lore of the movies, where after Laurie stabs Michael, she was injured for the rest of the first movie and for the entire duration of the second movie.

• Neutral: Time required to charge.

• Adjustment: Reduce the time (obsession only) to 45 seconds to charge up the perk.

feffrey

CoolAKn said:

@Nickenzie Survivor main here. Interesting concept you have in regards to Decisive Strike.

CRITIQUES

• Positive: Changes the perk from free-use to earned-use.

• Adjustment: Given this change, the DS skill check should be immune to all modifiers that would make the skill check easier or harder.

• Positive: Charging the perk based on proximity to the killer.

• Adjustment: Change the range to 12/24/36 meters to create a synergy with Spine Chill; if Spine Chill is active, you are charging DS, assuming the tiers are the same.

• Negative: Bleed-out timer upon use.

• Adjustment: Replace bleed-out timer with Broken for 100/80/60 seconds (same values as Deliverance). This change would also keep up with the lore of the movies, where after Laurie stabs Michael, she was injured for the rest of the first movie and for the entire duration of the second movie.

• Neutral: Time required to charge.

• Adjustment: Reduce the time (obsession only) to 45 seconds to charge up the perk.

This is a game not a movie though being in a broken state for the rest of the game or 60 seconds doesnt sound reasonable .

The difference between Dilverance and your proposed idea is the distance between you and the killer.

Putting a broke  effect on you after landing off the killers grasp will just be a waste of time.

You re injured youre leaving a blood trail and scratch marks. if they have good ears they'll hear you. They'll just catch you again within 10 seconds. it would be a waste

a fair trade would be to remove the stun effect from the perk and replace it with a blindness effect that last 3-6 seconds that way the killer has a chance to slug in any direction and the survivor has a chsnce to run any direction

Condorloco_26

As a killer I think your rework idea is a good one. Upvoting this.

Mercury

@Nickenzie said:
Mercury said:

Is it like Diversion though? Couldn't the Survivor just loop you for a whole minute and still get the benefit? This would still be a nightmare for m1 Killers then.

The perk won't charge up when in a chase, just like Stake Out. I thought that I put that in the Rework, I'll check it again lol.

It's alright. Since you planned for it, I can definitely agree this is a nice and well thought out change to dstrike. Would definitely like to see something along the lines of this.

And whether it's bleedout or broken would have to be tested, whatever feels better.

NMCKE

Mercury said:

@Nickenzie said:
Mercury said:

Is it like Diversion though? Couldn't the Survivor just loop you for a whole minute and still get the benefit? This would still be a nightmare for m1 Killers then.

The perk won't charge up when in a chase, just like Stake Out. I thought that I put that in the Rework, I'll check it again lol.

It's alright. Since you planned for it, I can definitely agree this is a nice and well thought out change to dstrike. Would definitely like to see something along the lines of this.

And whether it's bleedout or broken would have to be tested, whatever feels better.

I changed my OP to match your Spine Chill idea, this rework is always gonna change if people keep providing me reasoning to change the perk. Additionally, I don't like the broken status effect for multiple reasons:
-Survivor can loop you for a awhile
-Broken status effect is useless since you're likely gonna chase the survivor again and the "You can't heal" part would never be a problem to the survivor
-Bleed out timer adds pressure to the survivor since they can't loop you forever
-More pressure = Higher chance of the survivor messing up a mind game.

NMCKE

CoolAKn said:

@Nickenzie Survivor main here. Interesting concept you have in regards to Decisive Strike.

CRITIQUES

• Positive: Changes the perk from free-use to earned-use.
• Adjustment: Given this change, the DS skill check should be immune to all modifiers that would make the skill check easier or harder.

• Alternate Adjustment: Have the user just press E at any point while being carried to jump off, that way the killer can't constantly be dropping the survivor to prevent it's use.

• Positive: Charging the perk based on proximity to the killer.

• Adjustment: Change the range to 12/24/36 meters to create a synergy with Spine Chill; if Spine Chill is active, you are charging DS, assuming the tiers are the same.

• Negative: Bleed-out timer upon use.

• Adjustment: Replace bleed-out timer with Broken for 100/80/60 seconds (same values as Deliverance). This change would also keep up with the lore of the movies, where after Laurie stabs Michael, she was injured for the rest of the first movie and for the entire duration of the second movie.

• Neutral: Time required to charge.

• Adjustment: Reduce the time (obsession only) to 45 seconds to charge up the perk.

Oh, the perk automatically stuns the killer and frees you the moment that the pick up animation is finished. Meaning the killer can't dribble you to a hook because there's no moment where the killer can drop the survivor.

The_Fallen_Utopia

Nickenzie said:

Mercury said:

@Nickenzie said:
Mercury said:

Is it like Diversion though? Couldn't the Survivor just loop you for a whole minute and still get the benefit? This would still be a nightmare for m1 Killers then.

The perk won't charge up when in a chase, just like Stake Out. I thought that I put that in the Rework, I'll check it again lol.

It's alright. Since you planned for it, I can definitely agree this is a nice and well thought out change to dstrike. Would definitely like to see something along the lines of this.

And whether it's bleedout or broken would have to be tested, whatever feels better.

I changed my OP to match your Spine Chill idea, this rework is always gonna change if people keep providing me reasoning to change the perk. Additionally, I don't like the broken status effect for multiple reasons:
-Survivor can loop you for a awhile
-Broken status effect is useless since you're likely gonna chase the survivor again and the "You can't heal" part would never be a problem to the survivor
-Bleed out timer adds pressure to the survivor since they can't loop you forever
-More pressure = Higher chance of the survivor messing up a mind game.

I agree that a bleed out timer is the better option. For the reasons you stated and.. well if they can't lose the killer within 1 minute they probably shouldn't win that chase anyway. I do hope the devs see this thread because it would be a much better change then they had. 

Mercury

@Nickenzie said:
CoolAKn said:

@Nickenzie Survivor main here. Interesting concept you have in regards to Decisive Strike.

CRITIQUES

* Positive: Changes the perk from free-use to earned-use.
* Adjustment: Given this change, the DS skill check should be immune to all modifiers that would make the skill check easier or harder.
* Alternate Adjustment: Have the user just press E at any point while being carried to jump off, that way the killer can't constantly be dropping the survivor to prevent it's use.

• Positive: Charging the perk based on proximity to the killer.

• Adjustment: Change the range to 12/24/36 meters to create a synergy with Spine Chill; if Spine Chill is active, you are charging DS, assuming the tiers are the same.

• Negative: Bleed-out timer upon use.

• Adjustment: Replace bleed-out timer with Broken for 100/80/60 seconds (same values as Deliverance). This change would also keep up with the lore of the movies, where after Laurie stabs Michael, she was injured for the rest of the first movie and for the entire duration of the second movie.

• Neutral: Time required to charge.

• Adjustment: Reduce the time (obsession only) to 45 seconds to charge up the perk.

  Oh, the perk automatically stuns the killer and frees you the moment that the pick up animation is finished. Meaning the killer can't dribble you to a hook because there's no moment where the killer can drop the survivor.

I wasn't the one suggesting the spine chill thing, messed up the David's, lad. :P
But yeah, you are right, bleedout would cause for a lot more pressure and would add some more stakes to it.

unknown

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