TheSubstitute
TheSubstitute
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@hiken said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3265040#Comment_3265040
not at all, msot people leave on hook agaisnt nurse and blight wich is a big thing, something BHVR needs to adress, most killers are fun and then u have those 2 and legion of course. people hate them and is fine to hate them, especailly the first 2, they have a selection of dumb addons that make the experience beyond unenjoyable and the only way we survivors cna send a message to BHVR is by dying in big numbers, thats the only thing they watch numbers. and dont you worry i already do tthat, i never play solo q, that is meant just to lose over and over again people doing nothing all game, solo q is not even worth and on top of that you were gonna lose agaisnt a nurse anyway, the only way to beat a decent nurse is in SWF, solos are powerless against her, everyone who denys it are one of the following 2, Nurse mains (wich most are completely delusional in order to defend their killer main) or 2 havent played the game enough.
Okay, we can agree to disagree on the beatability of Nurse as we won't agree on it but I'm glad to hear you do 4 person SWF; thank you. I don't care what a group of friends do or do not; it's when they give up on randoms it irks me.
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@GannTM said:
I think I see the problem here. You didn’t mention Spirit at all who is a top tier killer and apparently you don’t play her. Playing DBD without associating with Spirit is actually scientifically proven to be very bad for mental health. Everyone that doesn’t play her goes through this at some point, but it’s hard to know that something is wrong until you start to see what she’s like yourself.
In all seriousness I do recommend her, she is fun c:
But your entire post was accurate. Which part was a joke?
🙂
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I'm jealous of those of you who never see it; I see it two to three times a week. It's boring to verse on that regularity as you just jump into lockers so Micheal can't kill you immediately. He can, however, carry you to someplace away from a locker, drop you until you wiggle off and then kill you if he can hit you before you get to a locker.
There's also very little BP and it's super hard to pip up. With Legion, I might mend a billion times but at least I do chases and get BP.
That said, I wouldn't really care about it if BHVR removed depipping so, when pipping up at Iri, you don't depip because somebody was being an idiot, tbagged Myers, and then led him straight to where you're doing a gen.
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I would say that's probably not a 4 person SWF as there's no need to double up on CoH. Perks are hard to determine if it is a SWF though.
Normally if the players have similar names then they are probably a SWF. If the cosmetics are identical then they might be a SWF but if two people randomly queue up with the same character occasionally the other randoms will switch to match just for fun.
If there's a TTV and the other three are acting as if they would sacrifice their newborn to save the TTV it's definitely a SWF.
It's hard to tell from coordination. I've seen and participated in plays that, if I had been watching it from the outside, I would have thought it was a SWF.
It's hard to tell to be honest.
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@hiken said:
when i see her is just a moral hit, i will most times leave on hook first try i dont bother. i dont care to bother either. Its jsut unfun, unpleasant i enter the game to have fun not to play against something that doesnt fit dbd.
Can you then please do all other solo survivors a favour then and queue in a 4 person SWF? You just ruined the match for the other three survivors and the only time the Killer will be upset is if they're not a sweat lord and the sweat lords will be happy. If you queue with three other people who realize you might do this then you're not affecting anyone else unfairly.
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If we had a wizard I would like a perk that allows me to fireball Self Carers who don't bring Botany Knowledge.
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@LuthirFontaine said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3264935#Comment_3264935
I saw its about 50-50 killers get really salty about things, god forbid you pallet stun some of them you will be camped till death
Some do get really salty and while I can't say this is anything more than my position I see per capita more toxic survivors than killers from playing both sides roughly equally. I don't think this is due to one side being naturally more toxic than the other but rather because people unfortunately show more toxicity in a group they think is 'on their side' and survivor is individually weaker than Killer so it could feel more like punching up against a stronger figure than vice versa.
Nevertheless, it's all unacceptable and not necessary no matter which side it comes from.
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@Omans said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3264930#Comment_3264930
It has been explained to you many times. I still remember that thread from last month that you ran away from because someone provided a bunch of stats and "evidence" showing just how broken Nurse is.
Just continue doing what you are doing, claiming nurse is fine when you yourself don't even experience the issue due to your MMR.
Funny how the people all defending nurse seem to always be self-admitted low-average MMR. Still waiting for an actual skilled player to say nurse is fine. Haven't seen a single one yet.
There weren't any stats or evidence presented and I certainly didn't run away. You also seem to selectively ignore the statements I've made that contradict your narrative. Also, does Otz count as a skilled player when he said Nurse was fine except for a few add-ons? It seems you're in an echo chamber and refuse to even consider other points.
I have no idea why you're so obsessed with a video game character nor why you can't admit your opinion is nothing but an opinion but it doesn't seem healthy. If you wish to continue a discussion please do so after you have actual facts and statistics or after you've reread my posts and actually comprehend my position.
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There's not really much else to do but keep trying, get a SWF or play a ton of map offerings to swing the odds more in your favour. I hope it improves.
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@JakeCannon said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3264800#Comment_3264800
They just go to another totem and put it up again across the map .
I'm pretty sure @Veinslay was being sarcastic.
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I thought a Nemesis running 'WeskerSksUpAtWrk' (Wesker Sucks Up At Work) was funny.
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@Colton147147 said:
Killers are much more toxic than survivors.
As you only play survivor that would be an assumption that would be broken by playing Killer for a significant length of time.
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@Omans said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3264838#Comment_3264838
He has been in many of these nurse threads, saying everything he can to try to convince himself that nurse is fine. It has been a spectacle to watch.
If you're referring to me without actually pinging my name then passive aggressiveness is not a good look. I'm still open to you providing any factual data that shows there is an issue. If not, your opinion still remains just that; an opinion.
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@Archol123 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3264728#Comment_3264728
Agreed buddy.
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3264743#Comment_3264743
I simply don't understand people that reject the data of the highest 5% of mmr... For the other set of data you could argue that those guys don't really know what they're doing on the killer and so on... But for those 5% it reflects how they perform under normal matchmaking conditions on average... So we could assume it would quite meaningfull... Because if the average of a full month of gameplay of the highest mmr players on certain killers in normal matchmaking says nothing then what does?
I agree. Just to throw in something else as I see other people are saying this the issues with the 'but if we include DCs her kill rate would be the highest!' argument are:
(a) It's an apple vs oranges comparison. If we compare any Killer with DCs included to any other Killer without DCs included of course their kill rates would be higher. That means nothing except that a 4v1 game is not balanced for a 3v1. As soon as a person DCs, the balance shifts to the Killer
(b) Including DCs taints the data. The only way to see how a Killer performs is by seeing how they perform as intended (4v1 game where all survivors stick around). DbD's mechanics make DbD snowball-y which is why 0K and 4K occur more frequently than 2K.
(c) If we're going to include DCs why not also include Killers giving Hatch? How about farmers? That reduces kill rates
(d) As the data isn't collected there is no way to factually say that if DCs were counted Nurse would be the highest Kill rate? How about Plague with Thana? Wesker with a full Coulro build? The DCing players DC over tons of trivial reasons and Nurse is not the only reason.
The entire 'But if we include the DCs!' argument is, once again, just another attempt to pass off personal opinion as a fact when the only data, limited as it is, does not support Nurse being an issue.
Just for the record, I don't know if Nurse is fine at all levels or not. I do know the only data we have shows that Nurse is not an issue. I can infer that BHVR does have all the data and, since no changes have been mentioned, BHVR considers other issues to be higher priority.
And, just for anyone who mentioned 'salty Nurse mains', I am salty but I'm not a Nurse main. I mainly play Artist, Huntress and Dredge when I play Killer and I do solo survivor over half the time. I'm just tired of people who give up on Nurse and don't try or, as in some videos I saw on the other end of the spectrum, complain that Nurse is OP while they get a 3E or 4E. Sure the Nurse in the videos I saw showed the Nurse downing survivors super quickly but the survivors won. The win condition in DbD isn't outchasing the Killer; it's getting out the exit gates. If three or four survivors get out the survivors still won even if they had to focus on gens instead of messing around with the Killer for fun.
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@[Deleted User] said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3264600#Comment_3264600
you are not seriously using the stats as an argument... omfg
You are not seriously using anecdotal arguments and personal opinions with no factual basis or support as an argument... omg
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@feechima said:
They don't always, but when they do its for the same reason a lot of killers pick Midwich. More pallets equal more survival usually. It's also a terrible map for trap killers.
It's not as bad as the Eyrie, though, for Trapper if you bring Iri Stone and focus more on cutting off loops than getting traps.
Two spots, though, for traps that can be tricky for survivors are the bathroom and the metal stairs up leading to the drop. The bathroom I like because the survivors will see the trap and disarm the trap which lets me know they're there. When entering I first set the trap and, if the survivor hasn't left the room entirely, at least I'm guaranteed one hook. With DH not providing iframes anymore the survivor is now stuck in a room with the only exit trapped.
Overall a terrible map for any M1 Killer but I think Eyrie takes the throne for worst map for Trapper period.
That said, it is amazing for the fall from great heights challenge on the survivor side.
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@Akumakaji said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3263974#Comment_3263974
Please, for the love of The Entity, don't confused then with facts and logic.
You're right; total chaos would ensue if people started making posts that consider both sides. People would think hackers had taken over the forums. It would be unrecognizable.
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@GrimReaperJr1232 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3263969#Comment_3263969
They ARE a third type of attack.
There are three attack types; Basic, Special, and Sub Basic.
Sub Basic attacks are a sub group of basic attacks given additional properties. Nurse's has a unique modifier to her lunge speed due to her low base movement speed, but otherwise entirely emulate a basic attack. Other examples include Legion's Frenzy, Pig's Dash, and Slinger's reel into M1.
Perks only acknowledge two types. Special and Basic, so Sub Basic attacks tend to be caught in the middle, unsure exactly which to be considered. That's why Pig's and Legion's were basic and changed to Special, and Nurse's and Slinger's remain basic.
That's interesting, thank you. In that case, if adjustments are warranted, I'm hoping that would make it easier to code Nurse's attacks so that any perk that is overly powerful could be changed without affecting access to other perks that require a basic attack but aren't overly powerful.
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I have no idea of why people are so resistant to the idea of learning how to play a specific Killer so they know better how to beat that Killer. When I first started playing DbD I played Trapper a lot and I started playing survivor right after? Why? I wanted to know where survivors typically run so I could trap the hell out of those spots. When playing survivor, I started learning Nurse. Why? So I could see what people did to mess me up so I could do that to other Nurses when I versed them. In both cases, it helped me improve significantly. More people should try it.
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Special Attacks: In my opinion, the best suggestion I heard was making the lunge after Blink a third type of attack. That way, if perks like Starstruck are too powerful on Nurse, then they can be adjusted to not work while still allowing access perks such as Sloppy Butcher.
Pallets: I don't really have an opinion. Using a pallet against Nurse makes as much sense against a Huntress that can hit accurately with hatchets. I don't see pallet stuns happening that often and most likely just giving the Nurse an easy hit. If it were pulled off, should it get an extra reward? No opinion either way
Reduced TR + Lullaby: Unnecessary if the Blink lunge is a third type of attack. The TR would probably still be helpful at 32m for survivors since people should become cautious as soon as they hear the TR.
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@TDtheDoc said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3261983#Comment_3261983
I don’t know why I can’t throw random hatchets but they didn’t like that I was throwing hatchets as huntress.
When I first started playing DbD, I would have thought there had to have been something else the survivors were thinking. Now that I've been around for awhile my thought process is 'Yep, that sounds like something that would be said in DbD.'
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I will add a prediction as to how this thread will go.
People will say Nerf Nurse! because of
(a) Anecdotal reason
(b) Anecdotal reason
(c) Personal reason; and
(d) I am high MMR and have played in tournaments but can't provide any footage but my opinion is worth more than that of you filthy, unwashed peons who enjoy Nurse!
People will say Nurse is fine and point out that her kill rates are not extraordinary. Other people will do logical gymnastics to say that doesn't mean anything.
People will say Nurse is fine. Other people will say she is not fine. Other than the kill rates people will point out there is no factual evidence Nurse is either fine or not fine and be thoroughly ignored.
The thread will become people repeating either Nurse is fine or Nurse is not fine. Some of the people who hate Nurse will say that people who play Nurse are terrible people because saying somebody is a terrible person for playing a character in a video game is totally a mentally healthy thing to do and does not by any means suggest the people insulting Nurse players are overreacting and have issues if they take a game so seriously.
After a few hundred rounds of people repeating 'She's fine' followed by 'No, she's not' the thread will die, another thread will pop up, and no changes will be made to Nurse by BHVR.
I'm not sure why but saying all that gives me a sense of deja vu. It's almost as if this happened dozens of times before. Crazy thought, I know.
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Ah yes, a nerf Nurse thread. I'm sure this thread will add something new to the discussion.
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@StibbityStabbity said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3263465#Comment_3263465
I mean, you're often one of the most sensible people on the forum, so if you didn't say anything, I'd just assume you didn't mend until after FF anyways. Also, ya, that's basically was solo teammates are for.
When I played Legion, I only ever used FF when I specifically SAW the survivors bunched up. Using it when I didn't know if I'd be running across the entire map seemed like a total waste. I don't know if I was just playing Legion wrong, or if I was big-braining it and most Legions just go "I HIT BUTTON GO BRRRRRRRRR". Based on everything I see said, though, it sounds like they just use Legions power willy-nilly, results be damned.
There's another playstyle for Legion other than "HIT BUTTON GO BRRRR"?
Speaking seriously, I do do that but that's because I don't play Legion to win; I play Legion because going brrr is fun (and gives lots of BP). I quite often let the survivors go on Legion after just to compensate them for me acting like a meth-addicted hedgehog all match.
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Anyone who thinks it's acceptable to write something like this over a video game needs, at the very least, anger management classes if not psychiatric help. From the BP totals of the non-DCing survivors it's obvious they got a chance to play. There's nothing to complain about and no justification to write that.
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@Lost_Boy said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3262427#Comment_3262427
I use weird builds all the time and enjoy experimenting actually. I answering you back about learning the maps, like it was just a lack of knowledge in my behalf of not knowing where to go. I gave my reasons on both maps being unfair due to bad design through too many pallets or lack of hooks where you physically can't reach one even before any add-ons or perks are abused.
No problem, the hook placement can be wonky but Midwich is a pretty good map once you learn where all the shortcuts are. I'd give Darkness Revealed more of a shot especially if you're playing Huntress or Trickster.
@Archol123 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3262494#Comment_3262494
I also don't really understand how Midwich could ever be killersided considering it is basically the hold w map where you can just run around the main corridor for ages if you spot the killer early enough... And with the access problems of the map with up and donstairs... Besides the point where it is possible to just have no hook in range or hooks being blocked by smaller objects... so you cannot hook anyone there.
It's older data now and the kill rates would have changed but I'd be surprised if the title of 'killing-est' and 'surviving-est' map has changed. If you know where all the access points are it's an easy map to get around on and it's easier to patrol due to being a smaller map.
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Dbd Mobile's controls are so frustrating for Killer I stopped trying it and just stick to PC. They have some pretty cool skins though
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@Lost_Boy said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3261572#Comment_3261572
What's to learn? That's maps are very basic and you actually don't really have to learn much and the layout at all. They're unfair because they have an insane amount of pallets or stupid hook placement.
Unless you're using a offering for either of those maps (why would you lol) then you're never going to be running darkness revealed, unless it's some meme build.
To be fair when I first started playing I did actually enjoy the meat plant, but that's only because I was playing impossible skill check doctor. Might actually give that a go again for the lols
@Archol123 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3261572#Comment_3261572
There is nothing to learn about badly designed maps xD What are you gonna learn about a map wit 25 safe pallets? :D There is no weak place where you can lead the chase to xD I don't get this argument :D I mean yeah sure when you get lost on map learning the layout can help... But when a map has no weak area because it is just loaded with safe tiles what are you gonna do besides kick 10 pallets and hope the game is not over yet so you maybe can bring survivors in the deadzone you just created...
Last time kill rate stats per map were given Midwich had the highest Kill rate in the game. Also, Darkness Revealed can be quite effective. That's okay though; feel free to disparage trying anything new. I'm sure that will help.
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Why not just buff Reassurance?
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Valid ways to combat tunneling include perk combos from any of OTR, SB, Deliverance, Renewal, DS, speed boosts from basekit BT that can be enhanced if the unhooker has either BT, Guardian and NOLB as well as your teammates taking hits for you. Other than disabling collision for survivors for the first few seconds off hook I don't really see what else BHVR can do.
Valid reasons to DC are real life issues and avoiding hackers. What people who DC for other reasons should do is either join up with a 4 person SWF so they only hurt their own SWF and not people expecting a normal game or, alternatively, not log in as survivor.
Besides, most DCers don't DC because they're being tunneled. They DC because they're selfish and immature.
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They kind of forced you to slug. If they're going to stop you from hooking they should expect it and plan for it accordingly. As an example, when I run Flip Flop, Power Struggle, Tenacity (so if I'm left alone for more than a few seconds I can pallet stun the Killer when I'm picked up) I fully expect that the Killer will leave me slugged after the first time if they can't pick me up immediately.
It's just salt you should ignore if their playstyle forces you to slug, nothing else.
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@Lost_Boy said:
Slowly over time I've gotten to really hate the meat plant and most recently Midwich.
I'm actually at a point now where if I get any of these 2 maps I'm just going to camp the first hook until they decide to sort these maps out.
A person can literally run the killer for 5 gens on meat plant without even coming close to going down because of the insane amount of pallets.
Midwich why even bother trying to get to the hook when half the time you just have to drop the survivor. 1 person with breakdown could effectively render quarter of the map off limits to the killer.
I really used to hate RPD, but since the reworked version is definitely not as bad. I still don't particularly enjoy it, but it's playable unlike the other 2 I mentioned.
Good luck with that if they bring Reassurance. It can be activated from directly above and below the hooked survivor. In the end, you might find it more productive to just learn the maps and bring Darkness Revealed if it's very frustrating for you. Most of the bottom of the Game and most of the entire Midwich map is near a locker.
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@Akumakaji said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3260676#Comment_3260676
That one time when we got an AFK killer on RPD I did one gen and then camped one of the exit gates. Lol. That was guaranteed progress that I didn't wanna miss out. A bit scummy, as I let the other three doing nearly all the gens, but I couldn't risk it.
I totally understand. I'd quite happily two or three escapes just for progressing that achievement one notch.
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@Akumakaji said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3259767#Comment_3259767
Grats! I feel you, because I went through the same. Just two days ago I finally finished Outbreak Breakout and it was such a slog. RPD is still one of this maps which map offerings are viewed by the killers as a declaration of war. And even if you make it to the end with all four survivors alive and kicking, only two can open the doors, that is if the killer gives you an opportunity to open both.
This achievement is horrible designed and I hope that BHVR will take the very bad reception of it to heart and never repeat anything like it.
You can also pick up progress by, if you're the last alive, waiting by an exit gate and opening it after the Killer closes hatch (assuming RNG puts the Hatch far enough away from you for you to get the gate). If you find the Hatch then instead of taking it you can run to the furthest exit gate to up your chances of opening the gate.
I wouldn't recommend it as a go-to strategy of course but if you're in that position it did work and, to be honest, with how tedious that achievement is I'd rather risk a chance to get progress on it than take a guaranteed escape.
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Overall, it's not. It can be used to create pressure (and I'd rather see a Killer who slugs to create pressure than a Killer who tunnels) and it's quite often necessary.
If facing a coordinated team with flashlights, sabos, etc to secure one hook you may have to down two to three people. Similarly, with Boil Over, Flip Flop, Breakdown, Power Struggle, etc the best play is often just to let the Survivor bleed out. I don't think that's an issue. I run builds on survivor oriented around those perks and I fully expect to be bled out. It's part and parcel of running it.
If the Killer is getting a 4 person slug then, with a few exceptions, the survivors completely misplayed or the Killer is just a lot better than the survivors. Leaving them to bleed out if you can hook them after is unnecessary but the 4 person slug by itself isn't bad.
If I see a Killer slugcamping a survivor that normally means the survivor BMed the Killer. In that case, I'm quite happy to take an easy escape and let them bleed out the survivor. If another survivor teabags at a pallet, etc I'm more than happy to let the Killer bleed out the survivor to near death and then facecamp the BMer to death. It's well-deserved in my opinion. A slug camp takes so long the other survivors are guaranteed to finish all gens unless they actively ignore them.
The only time I see slugging commonly enough that it is an issue is the slug the second last survivor and go for the last. Just hook them at that point. The Hatch is just an RNG pity escape anyway so it's not like the Killer didn't win if a survivor gets the Hatch; it's just something that makes the game more interesting and gives the last survivor an incentive to do something other than locker hop and drag out a lost game.
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You're part of a team with no communication. At times it's good and at other times it rocks. If you don't want to take the good with the bad play Killer or join a SWF. I'm not trying to sound harsh but those are your only realistic options. Maybe once status icons or a chat wheel comes it'll be better but, for right now, those are your options.
Also, for many Killers their only viable options to win against survivors close to their skill level is either/or camp, tunnel, 4 person slug, or a 3 gen. I prefer the 3 gen over the first three options but until the weaker Killers get updated that's their tool house.
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@HoodedWildKard said:
Specifically is it different for each of your killers? I've noticed on killers I haven't used or levelled much I'm coming up against extremely low level survivors some of whom are obviously very new to the game based on how they play. (No chase skills, missing loads of skill checks on gens etc)
Whereas on my regulars I see a lot more experienced survivors and bully squads.
It is different. Generally, when a new Killer is introduced it takes about 10 to 20 games to get a group that can give me a challenge. Part of it is that it is a new Killer but I can tell the Survivors I'm facing are less experienced.
If you want to confirm pick a Killer you can farm with and farm for awhile by only two hooking. You'll eventually get potatoes that you'll have to work to keep all of them alive. As a warning, once you do hit that point you'll have to kill a bunch of them to get a halfway interesting game again and you'll probably feel like you're kicking puppies while you're doing it.
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@AcelynnBen said:
i really don't get this community
i complained how its a bit too frustrating to get a 4k or even 3k without tunneling and camping
and i got a lot people saying im crying....about getting a 4k but you know, working my .... for it, unlike the opposite side
soooooo do i just camp and tunnel, i mean i know a lot of players don't like that, even i don't, but tbh its a very viable tactic and it always works
so im trying to understand players here, do i camp and tunnel and win or are we trying to make the game better and remove tunneling and camp so everyone enjoys the game
because tbh every time a killer that is still playing fairly, when they complain that they are playing a bit too hard to enjoy the game they always get people telling them they are crying....
you complain about getting camped and tunneled "just use perks or maybe you suck?", you complain about getting gen rushed or finding the game a bit too hard without playing toxic "maybe play better or just use perks"
does anyone have any other argument beside use perks or get gud?
Unless I'm teabagged I don't camp, alternate hooks so the earliest someone dies is 5 hooks but is usually 7 or 8, and, if the survivors play a flan or bps and it's not the anniversary event, I two hook and let everyone go.
This accomplishes three things:
(a) My games don't get super sweaty since my MMR is based around that style
(b) If I do get BMed it's much easier to push the teabagger out of the game at an early stage. I usually farm with the non-teabagging survivors at that point
(c) Post-game chat, even from groups I 4Ked, is more pleasant than unpleasant. A group I 4Ked as Twins, for example, said that I was the first Twins they faced that they had fun with.
If that sounds appealing to you try it. Some people just prefer winning at all costs but their games just end up sweatier and sweatier. If they enjoy that more power to them but, if you're not one of them, I recommend trying out what I suggested with the caveat that if you have been camping and tunneling you won't see the benefits until your MMR settles.
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@hiken said:
shaming, what a good idea!!!!
A well-deserved shaming in this case.
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@sizzlingmario4 said:
I had an idea regarding Ruin a few weeks ago because admittedly it is pretty bad now. What if it worked like this?
”A Hex that affects Survivors’ repair progress.
All generators are affected by Hex: Ruin; when a generator is not being repaired, it automatically begins to regress.
For the first 120 seconds of the trial, affected generators regress at 150/175/200% of the normal regression speed. After the first 120 seconds, this regression rate gradually decreases over the next 120 seconds from 150/175/200% of normal to 100% of normal.
After a Survivor is sacrificed or killed by any means, the Hex: Ruin totem automatically reverts to a dull totem.
The Hex effects persist as long as the related Hex totem is standing.”
Basically what this means is, it starts the trial at the same strength as it was before 6.1.0, but it weakens itself over time. If cleansed early, it’s no different than it was before the nerf and might still provide a bit of early-game value. If it lasts longer than that, then it won’t be as oppressive as it was previously, and it still turns off after a death.
What do you think?
I think it's a good idea.
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@Rovend said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3259281#Comment_3259281
If you put it that way, i would prefer A, but it still can lead to a boring, stale match.
Buffed ruin would be used with pentimento + plaything for a hex slowdown build.
So i must choose between being slowed down to 2 min per gen (slowdown) or be incapacitated while gen progress revert at a extremely fast rate (regressing).
And pain res, deadlock, gift of pain, can be paired with either.
God i hate this meta.
I understand your frustration but my suggestion is based on reducing camping and tunneling. Killers need an incentive to leave the hook combined with the disincentives. Before, you couldn't make Rank One by just straight out down the first camp them out and getting to Rank One was a source of pride. BBQ and Chili's BP bonus made it omnipresent and the BP bonus along with the aura reading incentivized the Killer to leave the hook. Now we have MMR which only incentivizes kills and no juicy BP bonus for BBQ & Chili stacks. We do have more anti-tunneling tools than before (although I think DS needs its nerf reverted) and a anti-camping tool (that I think needs a buff) but there are no incentives for Killers to not tunnel and only a few that encourage multiple hooks (Scourge Hooks and Pop although Pop was nuked to oblivion).
This part isn't directed specifically at you; I'm just taking advantage of my post to state it but personally I think the game would be better off overall if Killers had incentives to not camp and tunnel combined with the disincentives and, in my opinion, the survivor portion of the community should have less resistance to buffs that promote that.
I don't expect to win every game but I do expect to have fun and I have more fun in a game where hooks are spread around and everyone has a chance to play. I fortunately often get teammates who help me punish hard camping and tunneling by hook trading and doing gens so it's quite often a 3E or 4E instead of a 4K but those games are boring. I'd rather have a close game, win or lose, that's exciting with Killers that spread hooks around and don't camp than a game that's just hit M1, the occasional hook trade, open the exit gates and either feel sorry for the sacrificial lamb or be the sacrificial lamb. I think that healthier games would be more easily achieved with incentives combined with disincentives against camping and tunneling.
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@Rovend said:
Seriously, Dbd has no need of stronger gen regressing perks. The current meta is more than enough.
Okay, which would you prefer to face?
A) A Ruin and Undying Killer who loses pressure from camping and loses their gen regression after killing a survivor so the Killer is better served by spreading hooks and waiting for seven or eight hooks before killing a survivor; or
B) A Call of Brine and Eruption Killer whose optimal scenario is camping and tunneling one survivor out ASAP on the first three hooks. Then the remaining gens will be incredibly hard to do with the incapacitation from Eruption and gen regression from CoB with only three survivors.
I don't really understand why anyone would prefer to face B. Why would you prefer B over A?
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@mischiefmanaged said:
I generally disagree that the perk was a "more skilled" perk to use. The regression was completely passive so just running around could give pretty substantial regression. When I ran Ruin, my games were substantially easier and it involved no additional skill on my part. I didn't even have to remember I had the perk equipped.
It was also a perk that affected solo queue survivors more than those on teams. Should I stick to my generator to complete it so it doesn't regress back to zero or should I go for the hook save and lose all progress on my generator? I guess I'll just leave the person on hook. Killer chases one person off of a generator so now someone has to go for the save and the killer regresses two generators automatically. You also couldn't just cleanse Ruin because you didn't know if one of your teammates was looking for it or it was your job to do that. Then while Hex spawns can be really obvious on some maps, they're also downright evil and hard to find on others so you could easily end up in a situation where Ruin was just impossible to find and never got cleansed the entire match.
Ruin isn't necessarily bad. Other regression perks just became a lot better and more consistent. CoB/Eruption are pretty insane right now. CoB gives pretty substantial regression by itself and some amount of tracking in one perk. Eruption gives pretty insane slowdown and allows the killer to leave the generator and rewards them for ending a chase quickly. Eruption doesn't do anything if you don't both kick the generator and down a person.
If we're going to talk about buffing regression perks back to their former glory, PGTW is probably the one to talk about and CoB/Eruption are the ones to nerf in some way. Even then, PGTW is just worse than it was. It's not completely worthless by any means.
I don't want to return it though to its former glory just to do so. I want to return it but with the deactivation upon survivor death because it then incentivizes spreading hooks and deincentivizes camping. That makes games more fun.
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@Pulsar said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3258906#Comment_3258906
So all your saying is that you just have to hope the Nurse is bad?
It took BHVR what, 5 years to nerf DH?
No, what I'm saying is that Nurse does not have disproportionate kill rates for the majority of the player base, that there is counterplay and there may or may not be sufficient counterplay but that nobody but BHVR has the data to determine if there is an issue or not. Anybody else is just venturing an opinion.
I'm also saying that most of the comments about Nurse are nothing but hyperbole and that Nurse isn't the only Killer that decimates opponents because once you pass a certain point you will win most of your games as Killer on virtually all Killers because the game has issues matching you against four other people at exactly your skill level. The reverse doesn't happen with solo because the game has issues matching you with three other people at your skill level but a lot less issues matching you against one person (the Killer) at your skill level.
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@ScottJund said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3258867#Comment_3258867
what about me strikes you as professional looooooooool im a dumbass. either way, when your argument is "the counterplay to nurse is hope they are not good" it comes off a little silly is all.
You're not a dumbass but that's probably just self-deprecating humour. When, though, when facing any Killer does a Survivor not hope they are better than the Killer and hope RNG on maps and pallet spawns favours the Survivors? Nurse does lower the RNG factor but my actual point is that there is counterplay to Nurse. I can offer an opinion on if the counterplay is sufficient but it's just an opinion, nothing else, but so is everyone else's.
Whether there is sufficient counterplay to Nurse is different but the only data we have is that 95% of the playerbase or more doesn't have a disproportionate problem with Nurse. The only data we have is incomplete and doesn't tell the full story but it is the only data we have. If there is a disproportionate problem with Nurse then it's in the very top of MMR, which it could very well be, but I'm not in the top 5% of MMR and think that while the top 5% should be considered they should not be the sole consideration.
What does affect more than 5% of the playerbase is people who DC as soon as they see a Killer they don't like and all the hyperbole surrounding Nurse just adds to the issue. If the quitters would just fricking try they would find a lot of games where they doomed their teammates are actually quite winnable (and occasionally the Killer was farming anyway so it was a guaranteed escape with lots of BP).
For myself, I can say I'm quite comfortable with the Nurses I face. I'm not facing the top Nurses but I'm also not a top survivor nor am I in a SWF. If there are changes needed and to be made then I'd like the changes to be done in a way that addresses the problem without diminishing the enjoyment of the people who are playing the Killer casually. For myself, I'd rather face a Nurse or Blight anyday than a camping Ghostface although I escape a lot more against Ghostface. The game is just more exciting against the Nurse or Blight in that example.
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@Pulsar said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3258880#Comment_3258880
Actually, I think it was almost forty. Likewise, Xbox One, not PS4.
Also, she makes me extremely motion sick and I can't focus while playing her. If I wasn't handicapped in those ways, I've no doubt that I could win most of my games as Nurse.
On Killers that aren't Nurse I have gone up against some very good players. Not consistently, but you can tell when you're getting put against fair opponents. I've pushed Killers like Blight and Nemesis as far as I can given my hardware limitations and I'm happy with being able to compete with people like Yerv and Tofu, I don't know what my MMR is, but I figure if I can hang in with them, I must be at least competent. All this to say, I know how to play Killer.
Nurse is absolutely too good for this current era of DBD. Maybe she made sense in 2017 or 2018 when I started playing, but it's been a long time since then. Those .01% Nurses? They aren't going against people with 10K hours consistently. If they did, they'd have 30 minute queues. No, they're playing against people with sub-2K hours who they completely decimate.
They do decimate but my point is that after you substantially pass the mean of experience in DbD you decimate on most of your games on Killer. The inverse is not necessarily true if you play Solo and, in my opinion, that's one of the sources of complaints because you might have been able to get an easy 4E if everyone were at your skill level but your teammates can doom you.
I'm not saying there should not ever be changes to Nurse. My position is that we do not have the data to say Nurse is an issue. We only have anecdotal evidence and any validity there is often obfuscated by the hyperbole surrounding discussions around Nurse.
If Nurse is an issue, then BHVR has the data and will act on it. If not, the constant hyperbole about Nurse is only opinions which would be a lot less tiresome if the hyperbole wasn't presented as fact. There is a huge difference between saying, for example, there is no counterplay and saying I don't think there's sufficient counterplay. One is demonstrably false and the other is an opinion that may or may not be true.
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@Pulsar said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3258867#Comment_3258867
It's funny that you think MMR is that consistent.
That's a fair statement but, to be honest, although I'm sure you're a good player you lost about 20 times in a row as Nurse. I suspect most of your issues come about from playing on PS4 and hardware issues and not your ability but you also know Nurse isn't a play 10 games, win 99% of the time Killer as commonly portrayed.
@ScottJund is an even better player than either of us but that is exactly the reason why outliers shouldn't be used for balancing. @ScottJund , Otz, JRM, etc are all outliers as they're much better than most players will be either due to time spent, inherent ability, or both.
If DbD was set up so the majority of participation was from watching people play, sure, do it. For a game where you participate in it it's important to consider everyone for balancing.
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@ScottJund said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3258855#Comment_3258855
Enlighten us them. Is it "going out of line of sight and forcing the Nurse to guess except I forgot she has two blinks?" That's another classic
No, there's more than enough counterplay out there already described. As your job is literally streaming DbD and you would be facing the top 0.1% of Nurses the issues you would face are not representative of the majority of the player base nor should Db balance around the top 0.1%.
The odds that the poster I replied to is in the top 0.1% of players is also extremely small and I'm tired of seeing threads from people who won't try against Nurse when she's not an issue for the majority of the player base which is where the game balance should be decided.
I'm actually surprised, by the way, you're in here coming across as trolling a thread that wasn't related to you or your videos as you're normally more professional than that. It's kind of disappointing to see.
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@ScottJund said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3258725#Comment_3258725
Let me guess. Your Nurse counterplay involves running into the Nurse
It does not.
Edit: I should add except for if I'm on the second story of a map and the Nurse has charged their blink enough the Nurse has to overshoot or blink into the lower level. In that specific situation, I will.
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@Reinami said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3258803#Comment_3258803
What they need to do is just normalize gen regression perks to all be extremely powerful, but then only let you take 1.
I'd agree with that. It would lead to more chase and info perks which would make Killers stronger in those areas but those games, win or lose, are a lot more fun than games with campers and tunnelers.