Talmeer
Talmeer
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@Sadsnacks said:
It would be nice for survivors to have other objectives that don't force the killer to have to apply more pressure on the map with their existing base kits, perks, addons.
In Friday the 13th survivors have other objectives that can lead to an escape. The difference in that game tho is that the killer has a lot more to his base kit that allows them to apply pressure evenly across all of the different survivor objectives.
I think it's been suggested before that survivors should have to search the map to find tools or parts before they can interact with gens. That might work?
They did increase gen speeds at the same time they nerfed ruin. I remember after the ruin nerf came out gens got faster for me as a survivor. I never had issued with old ruin, I thought it spiced up the game with a secondary objective (cleansing ruin).
Maybe they could implement something like that without it being a totem somehow? Like maybe gen speeds are slower and skillchecks are harder until someone completes some sort of action that makes sense within the game world like finding fuel for the gens or something IDK
That would be great. Especially if those items would be placed random at every new match.
I mean, I have never play much on the survivor side, but the few times I had, I was incredibble bored because so many survivor actions are just doable by holding m1. Not every action, but the majority.
Don't know how others see it, but I would prefer to search some tool over sitting all day on a generator a thousand times.
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@PNgamer said:
Hello,
when will it come ? As you can look here: https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/177639/i-am-already-sick-of-the-genrush-squads-red-purple-ranks-do-finally-something-devs#latest
and crowman was saying it: Devs have already stated they are planning to add an early game system. Any opininions about that ?
It would be interesting to see with what they come up.
I bet it is hard to balance.
The tiniest change could potentially weaken solo gameplay, or make it even worse for killers.
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Everything is for surviors unfun or oppressive since years.
You just to follow this forums for a year and you will know that. Everything that is not a buff for them, gets a outcry with most of the time those words in their threads.
That said, I play since a year or so most of the time in the brown or green ranks because I spent not so much time anymore playing DBD, but you will be surprised how often you get matched with higher survivors in those ranks. I don't know how it is since they changed the mm (allegedly), but usually you get already matched with red ranks while you are in the brown ranks.
And that means... You don't have to worry. If rank 1 or 20, you will get your red rank survivors anyways, if they have not change that^^. Part of the reason why I not understand, why someone would like to rank up, you know? If you get already everything in the first reachable ranks...
Edit: Well that is one reason and the sweaty gameplay up there. Everybody trys to be a tryhard there, after my experience.
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@lordtomato said:
Thanophobia is dirty on legion but almost every legion bring this perk. This is one of the reason why legion is annoying and reducing fun in this game. He is basically not a strong killer, he is a weak killer but thanaphobia made him broken. Just fix thanophobia. I don't quite know why do people think thanaphobia is a bad perk, you can just search on google and mostly people think it is broken. The way survivor to deal with all injured is to gen rush so the gen progress will be fine, be thanophobia is just annoying that can make gen almost took ages to done when you injured lots of survivor.
I bet if I would ask 100 survivors what is unfun in DBD, nothing of DBD would be left anymore.
Someone is always hating something. Always.
And no, I am not 1 of those Legion's who run thana. If you catch me in the rar games I playing, you will see it :).
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@LowSpecGamersMatter said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1491399#Comment_1491399
are you trying to say that streamers are different kind of human beings or what? Im confused
Streamers are a different kind of human beings, ...sort of.
Streamers are influencer and as such they make usually money via donations, or sponsors contracts.
In order to bind their community on them many exaggerate on a variety of topics. Not all of course, but far as I see it, the majority of them.
So, if you watch a streamer and he exaggreates, you should think first, why he is really doing it. In case of the Legion it is simple - the crybabys from the past are still alive and they are still part of their communitys. It is something their audience expected from them to see.
Don't take them too serious if they show reactions like this. Take the streamers serious who are able to put their thoughts in words and still playing the game, they are streaming, with the rules of the game in mind and to point it out: DCing is against the rules, of sportmanship and also the game*.
Edit:* Even if it benefits one side of the match, like the killer side usually, if a survivor dc's.
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Usually I am all in to criticize bhvr for things, I think, are running wrong by them, but by this one no...
Bugfixing is tedious, most times subordinate and underpaid. Not to mention that nobody thanks you for this kind of work. The only thanks you get is the silence in the forums, compared to the usual anger about bugs.
I think they doing an ok job and would actual wish to see other things also worked out on this level. Like things I waiting for :).
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I do from time to time testmatches, if some of the changes I have dislike got reverted. That's is it already.
Otherwise I wouldn't have time so much writing here in those forums :).
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If you are really having trouble to win a match, try to tunnel the weakest player down.
After he is on the hook, move to generators were the survivors have worked on, or where it is most likley that they will work on them.
Damage those generators or hunt another survivor down (like someone who is working on the generators at the moment).
After a few minutes return to a area that makes it possible for you to reach the hook in 20 secs or so.
With that you are usually out of range what the tr matters and also what the most survivor perks matters. Usually in that time the survivors have already unhook the hooked survivor, but then you start to hook the unhooker, or the guy who you have already hook before, depends on which of the 2 guys runs in your arms first then.
Works very often, if you run not in a swf.
Edit: On this way you start a cycle that is for many survivor groups hard to survive, without any losses on their side.
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I had in my endgame chat probably more people being happy with the pre patch Legion, as I had seen in the forums complaining and that is not overdrawn if you think about it.
1 match means having already 4 survivors in your endgame chat. Multiply this with 10 (because I had make to this time at the minimum 10 matches/day) and we are already by 40 survivors.
And non of them had complaint about the pre patch Legion.*
The people have mainly do 4 things in my endgame chats to this time:
-They were silent. Not a single word.
-Short messages like "gg".
-Happy talks with laughs on both sides about my mistakes and theirs.
-Some were happy to had the Legion as killer, because it was something different to the usual m1 killer and they had encourage me to push them next time even more, if we would meet again.
To me and my Legion playstyle to this time:
-I had mostly play the Legion without Addons. At maximum the brown ones. Mostly to free my addon menu from brown addons.
-I had never kill a survivor with the m2 attacks because you couldn't do that with a Legion without addons. If someone has a different opion, this person is free to show me prove that it was possible against a at least standard survivor group via a video on YouTube, or wherever.
-But of course I had use them to hurt them and to finish them then off with a m1 hit afterwards or so. Also they had go down in this time via dw.
I bet I still have somewehre a small collage of some endgame chat comments laying around, to prove that my endgame chat was like that and if someone doubt my words then I say, prove it :). Prove that I have write something wrong. I know that you can't because I didn't, but I know that the people that have cryed in the past are still around and so I say, prove it for your first time in your life, that a Legion ->without addons<- was a gamebreaker.
Edit:* Most of the time. I remember that 2-3 times 1 or more guys have complain about the Legion, but man... 2-3 guys on what? Hundrets of people... I do not even care...
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@DrDeepwound said:
Why?
Twitch streamers with thousands of viewers were in effort trying to get him removed from the game.
Some of the biggest streamers of this game were showing his backwards walking cheese all day, while saying openly "maybe this will get legion removed"
Majority of players had no idea about walking backwards, nor do the majority of players think like that - the behavior was encouraged on twitch and the cheese spread.
To this day, I blame them more than anyone, none were banned, only no-name legions who ran the "forever mending" exploit were supposedly banned, but people who showed the world how to do it,... well,... they still stream the game as if nothing happened.
I remember the good and happy endgame chats with survivors and a friend of mine, who was a survivor main until he stopped playing DBD, as a Legion main to that time.
As I had read survivors influenced by those guys, I first thought I could not trust my eyes, so far was the difference between my endgame chats and what they were saying.
The only satisfying thing on the Legion rework was the playerdrop afterwards, that was to see in the Steamcharts. DBD needed 2-3 months to recover from it, far as I remember. Would they have not obey to their biddings, they would have today the same playerbase in their game + the guys who have drop DBD after this "rework".
There I am sure.
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There was no real reason to nerf the Legion, if we only consider the game mechanics. If that would have been, the Legion would have been buffed, without cutting their mechanics in half.
But the Legion had bad luck.
2 exploits + a unknown count of people who have use them have combain together with survivor complainments and bring the Legion to fall.
Since then we are damned to play that boring m1 gameplay and have to do as would it give us a adrenaline rush, like the old m2 playstyle has :|.
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@Sirco1990 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1474556#Comment_1474556
I dont use noed a lot myself i mostly use it when i see toolbox. But killing the perk because the majority of the survivor complain about it is not the answer they did that with ruin i think if they do that again a lot of player will be pissed
Sure they will.
But I'm beginning to suspect that someone works at bhvr who is only happy if the forums explode :). This opinion has nothing to do yet with NOED, it goes back much more in time.
Nerfs are not uncommon if enough survivors complain. Guess that's the nicest way to pronounce it.
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@Sirco1990 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1470009#Comment_1470009
This part make it sound like the dev are ready to kill a bunch of killer or killer perk cause of the survivor complain
Granted neither of those are really unsolvable issues, the latter being fairly rare in my experience, but they are very fair points and I don't think they should be completely ignored.
I think nobody will be surprised if NOED falls in the end. To many complain about it.
Personally I have run it only 1 time to test it. I think it is a great perk if you run in a fully trained 4 swf, but otherwise it is a bit too much imo.
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@azame said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1473453#Comment_1473453
I hope so people are telling me this is an "us vs them" thread but I really wasnt trying to do that just to say both sides got problems let's stick together.
Well, maybe some survivor problems getting ignored. I play survivor not enough to build me a opinion about that and since a certain rework patch I have not talk much with survivors in the endgame chat. I can only talk deeply about the things I either know, or can relate to.
What I can say is, that also a lot of killer problems getting ignored.
So, in being ignored we are together. Doesn't feel great :).
Btw. what moris and keys matters, so they should be imo deleted. But I need to say that I love the animations of the moris and so I would love it, if the mori animation would be turned in the way how a killer kills, after the second hook.
A survivor would anyways die on the third hook and a mori gives other survivors time to run away, I think on this way this feature could be deleted without the only thing that is cool on it.*
Edit:*Also 2 more kill animations for each killer would then be nice, so that we not always see the same. I know that is probably a lot of work for the animatiors, but well... I just say it :).
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@azame said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1473405#Comment_1473405
That's because it is the majority of killer maijs on this forum which wouldnt be a problem if alot of killer mains didnt view survivors as bad people and vice versa.
Nobody will be able to break the cycle of nerf threads, that lead to nerfs, that lead to complains.
It will always be this way. The only thing that can be maybe getting better, is the way people speak to each other and well, I don't know if there will be something better in the near future.
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1- I think moris are a ok way to counter keys, because... welll... they counter keys :P.
2- I find the animations of mories great.
If moris would get removed, I would be ok with it, but I would miss the animations :|.
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@azame said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1471081#Comment_1471081
You didnt even read my post I gave my reasons to why I think its killer biased you ignored them.
But he, or she is right.
Besides that, even while the forums are so "killer sided" (something thats a lie imo), your first posting has 29 upvotes by now.
How can this exist together? Would this forum be so killer sided, you would not have such upvotes ->.<-
But I can tell you a little story:
There was once a time, where I was completely happy with DBD and I mean completely.
I had not care about swf, about killer or survivor abilities, perks, maps, whateverrr!
But some survivors couldn't stop pushing. They needed to write nerf threads, they needed to show a bad sportmanship until bhvr has fall for them on their knees and obey to their wishes.
Then my favorite killer got nerfed... Oh, I am sorry, my mistake... "Reworked". And since then you guys have grow yourself a complaining killer in the forums. Of course you can say, that the threads and everything else was justified because whatever, but on this way you have grow the number of complaining killers.
And what had happened in the past to my fav killer is just 1 example. There are multiple examples more.
If you guys really want to stop killer mains from complaing, the behavior should stop to push killers in a edge.
If that is something survivors didn't want to do, its ok, but then don't complain that we complain^^.
So much to "killer sided". If that would true, the above have had never happen.
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Letting make the Legion with their m2 attacks damage instead of damage over time via dw (5-10% per hit).
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@Zaitsev said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1470696#Comment_1470696
When the devs address how terrible the killer experience is, Ill return.
:| sighs I had like to read your comments, but well I can't blame you after all.
I take often breaks for weeks or months. Don't know if I would still be a killer main, without it -_-
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Ha. We will see how long that lasts... The dark side has cookies, you know? :)
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@Frareid88 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1470549#Comment_1470549
Yeah a mod deleted a thread I made about moaning killers
I am sure, the mod deleted your thread not because you have complained about a killer sided forum.
I bet it has something to do with the way you have choose your words.
I am as a killer main could as example start a thread that those forums here are survivor sided and that would be ok, I assume... until I choose words that are either insulting, or and - yet comes your thread to my mind - have look as would you have made your thread only to provocate.
Then my thread would have been deleted and maybe you find there the real reason for it :).
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I remember to have played the Huntress on a free weekend. Mostly succesfull.
It had made much fun, but I was still thinking if I should buy the game. I started to watch dbd episodes from a YouTuber, that has stopped playing DBD already and after some months I had bought DBD then with the Legion DLC, because that was exactly what I wanted.
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@Pryzm said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1470266#Comment_1470266
I think the best thing they could do is truly open up 'Custom Game' mode. Allow players to make modifications in that mode. Limit perks, or alter gen speeds, penalize camping or perhaps create different game modes like 2 v 8 or whatever they want. Give some serious creative freedom there. Create a lobby for Custom Games and let players join games they see fit to join. If I am running a game where the killer gets penalized for staying near the hook, and gen times are slowed down, it is up to other players as to whether they want to join that. Get rid of the lack of BP in Custom Game. Let them earn BP and spend it on the character. Custom Game characters cannot be used in ranked matches. But, ranked characters can be copied over to Custom Games one time.
By doing this, you don't really split the player base by much, and you eliminate people's complaints about camping, tunneling, NOED, Adrenaline, DS, etc. If you don't like those things, start a match in Custom Game that limits their use. If you play in ranked play, STFU and play. By having a lobby in Custom Game, you allow people to chat, maybe break off into third party chat, etc and meet other players that want to play the style of game they enjoy.
There is money to be made in this as well. Pay a monthly fee for a private chat room where you can invite like-minded players in to discuss the setup for a game. Perhaps have some advanced modifications available for purchase. Maybe charge a one-time fee to even access Custom Game lobby. That is the only way to access the modified game modes. And, this works well for research and development. If BHVR sees that an abundance of players seem to like playing with a certain custom modification, they can build on that for future release. Even game modes can be included later.
Honestly, it's a win/win. It eliminates the legitimate ability to complain about certain aspects of the game, like perk use. If you don't like the perks, start a game without their use.
I think this would attract lots of new players and be a great tool for BHVR to use. I would be willing to pay a reasonable one-time fee for such an expansion as I imagine it would be costly to do. $10-15 would be ideal, but perhaps a bit more.
Well, I think best would be, if Survivors would be able to sort 1-10 killer perks out and killers 1-10 survivor perks in such a mode.
Otherwise I can already yet see threads about "couldn't choose NOED, but they all had DS and that after they said, they wouldn't use it!!!".
Besides that, sounds like a great idea :).
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@ Antares2332 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1470090#Comment_1470090
I understand it perfectly, It is nice that at the end they leave "gg" or "wp" at the end of the game, this implies that the player has enjoyed playing that match.
But most of the chats are toxic, that's the truth. Imagine how many complaints the devs would have avoided if the final chat had never existed.
That is true.
I also do not denie, that many people encounter toxicity in their endgame chats, I think.
I have just wrote my experience in. I had really not many toxic chats in the game. Even I am a killer main, I have sometimes laugh with the survivors about my or their faults. It would really take something away from dbd, for me.
DBD releated toxicity had I first learn to know via the DBD steam froums. As I had wrote there things, that not everybody has liked... Man my steam profile afterwards...
Luckily there was a easy solution for it, thanks to the private functions in steam.
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Guess because of toxicity and because, you see basically already on rank20 people that have derank on purpose with hundrets or thousands of hours of gametime.
They are not always that good, but they will for sure destroy every beginner survivor and killer.
Edit: Not that I have something against people who do this. I can everybody understand, who do not like to stay in the higher ranks.
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@ Antares2332 said:
They must urgently buff or rework Michael Myers with their basic kit and nerf their iridescent add-ons.
They should do a rework for the nurse that is more fun to use and less difficult. She is literally buried in the killer menu.
They must delete the chat from the game. If they do, there should be no reporting system for insults, also with the crossplay you can send requests in-game and they can speak privately.
Not everyone has toxic chats.
I have fond memories on mine as I have play 10+ matches/day in dbd. This time is over thanks to a rework from bhvr in the past, but the memories are still alive and I like them. I would dislike it, if they would delete the chat :|.
Also I think, Meyers just need a few buffs. His basekit has some class. Nurse... well that is a other topic...
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Reworks should not change the "spirit" or, the "construct" of what they are changing.
There are already multiple examples in dbd, with which the devs have made parts of the playerbase really unhappy.
Imo, better they should stay to traditional buffs and nerfs. They can also be strong, but they usually let people not go mad as some reworks in the past.
So I am more for undoing reworks as for doing them. Not important about what we speech.
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I am honest @azame .
The killer vs. survivor mentaly will live in me until my favorite killer suffers not anymore under the rework he has got because of survivor complains. When that will be... That knows only bhvr. I don't see this as my decision.
That said, I don't see how survivors get treated here differently as killers.
As soon as a killer or survivor main writes something, you can count already the minutes until some main of the opposite side will write something that shows, that this guy just like to put the voice of the writer down.
It is like it is and it will continue as long, as long as killers and survivors getting nerfed because of nerf threads, dc's, or whatever reaction one side is be able to.
If someone has something against this, don't fuel the fire. That's the reason why I rarely appear in nerf threads as example.
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@Almo said:
DCs are only one clue there might be something wrong. In this case, we had a Darius* problem with The Legion: low power, high annoyance. Once we did the update, DCs were only one clue that we acheived our goals. The goal was to make Legion less annoying to play against while keeping the power level the same or having it go up. It stayed the same, hence the subsequent update to give a buff to the power level.
*Darius in League of Legends was famous for having a very high ban rate, but a low win rate. This indicated that he's no fun to play against even if he's not that powerful.
Thanks for the explanation Almo.
Even I have my doubts about the annoyance. Not that some people were not annoyed by the Legion - thats for sure, but you know... The one thing someone is loving hates a other guy, somewhere on this world.
To this day, DBD has not seen a second killer like the Legion and I talk here from the concept of the killer.
Like the Nurse as example, the Legion was unique and had not feel like... well... so many other m1 killers have feel to this time and the Legion also today... Unique concepts are usually appealing to players, that have not find their favorits yet and I think it is always bad if a game cuts itself and keeps potential customers away.
So I am not convinced that this was a good deal. In my eyes, the people who have cryd, were a small but very loud minority, backed up by a handful of streamers.
This guys were made happy in exchange for the happyness of the Legionplayerbase to this time, in exchange to the survivors who have stay neutral or have like to play against the Legion and in exchange to potential new customers, who have waited for something different as the m1 killers we know today.
PS: I would love to see more devs in discussions like this and many others in the forums. I know that the forums are rough - the survivors I talk with in the game are usually 3 times nicer, as some I have met here, or in the steam forums and that counts for sure, also for some killers - but you know... For the people that can talk like grown ups, its much appreciated.
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Don't think you will get a satisfying answer to this.
I think, as long everyone had the chance, everything is ok. Of course, some will never be happy since they like being grumpy cat, but if you had give a chance at least, its not your fault anymore.
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Is there any actual road map?
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@NuclearBurrito said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1461490#Comment_1461490
Of course 3 Frenzy's was enough to down you. Each Frenzy removes 10 seconds and there is a total of 30, so 4 hits would down counting the initial hit that applied DW in the first place.
It wasn't particularly fast, but it was a fixed time. This is why the idea of Legion being uncounterable was compatible with the idea of Legion being underpowered. He downs you in a fixed amount of time, about 30 seconds-ish.
Now that's obviously too long to avoid being gen rushed. Which is why he's considered underpowered. But it's juuuuust fast enough for people to do it anyways and piss off the Survivors every time.
Throwing addons into the mix isn't what made the strategy possible. The addons just make the strategy go from "consistently mediocre" to "consistently really good". Because franks mixtape easily cuts over 10 seconds off the time to down.
If we count 3 frenzy, then yes you were right. I had thought that we talk about knife hits of his m2 abilitie.
Thank you for writing this. It shows at least what I have already write above.
The people that were against the Legion couldn't even deliver evidence for what they were saying, nor they were able to learn. All what has come were either passive-aggressive comments, insults or some sort of blocking behavior.
Of course they demanded, that we pro Legion guys watch the videos of streamers, who showed the Legion with exploits or op addons. This I have also already mentioned above.
Do you know what the problem is with mains of whatever is Ramsay?
The usual nerf cry-attitude works there not, because they know about what they are talking.
I bet with you, that in the whole thread, not one guy is be able to show me a op Legion without addons video from that time against a at least standard-survivor group.
What does that mean? That the mains, who have talk about it were maybe right? Yes, that could be...
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@Mister_xD said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1461445#Comment_1461445
so you're trying to tell me that pressing M2 to get an guaranteed, unavoidable down is skillfull?
literally every killer you listed here requires you to AT LEAST follow the most basic chase rules of cutting them off around windows / pallets and actively reward a good and skillfull usage of their power.
Trapper requires a good setup, Myers requires good basic looping skills and needs to build up his power while remaining unseen, Clown requires some sort of aim and good loopoing skills, Nurse requires very good predictions and precise blinks, Hillbilly needs to be able to manage his chainsaw well and Pig requires you to play around loops with her ambush - what did Legion require you to do that was "skillfull"?
here's how a typical oldschool Legion chase looked like:
1) Legion finds you and gets close
2) Legion enters FF and gets an unavoidable (jumps through windows and over pallets very quickly (= ignoring any base chasing mechanic), has no cooldown on missed attacks (= no punishment for skillless plays and no reward for skillfull plays on the survivor side) and moves at an insanely fast movementspeed (= continuously catching up)) hit on you
3) Legion hits you again (reusing the methodes of step 2), cutting your DW bar by 30% and gets stunned.
4) Legion gets out of the stun and walks after you
5) Legion has their power back at ~15% and FFs at you again (repeat steps 3 to 5 until you are downed)
that is "skillfull gameplay" for you?
are you certain?
Not possible with a Legion without addons.
If you doubt this, search me please a video on YouTube - or any other plattform - and show me a Legion without addons, who had did this to a, at least normal survivor group.
It doesn't have to be even experts, just also not totally newbies.
In a oridnary chase, you had the chance to hit a survivor 2 times. If it was a total potato 3 times. After that they were gone, if they again not were bloody beginners.
The Legion to this time was a killer with a very short action window, if we count in the frenzy duration to this time and the abilities of the survivors to avoid being hit by whatever.
Also to get someone with 3 hits down was not possible as a Legion without addons. If you see that in a video -> look at the endscreen and you will see there addons. I promise.
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@Mister_xD said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1460551#Comment_1460551
i would like to clarify this:
they did NOT rework Legion for the sole purpose of that moonwalk cheese - they reworked them because they deemed the entire chase mechanic Legion has had with his FF to be very unskillfull, lacking in counterplay and extremely unfun for the survivor, hence the nerfs.
Legion has to wait for their whole power to recharge before using it? - that was because back then Legions would just wait till their power was 10 - 15% before Frenzying repeatedly until the survivor died.
Legion gets broken out of their power uppon missing an attack? - that was because back in the day Legion had zero punishment for getting outplayed / messing up and could just spam M1 until they hit, which made the whole power pretty much unavoidable.
Legion can not take 30% of the Survivors mending bar off anymore with a FF hit on a deeply wounded survivor? - thats because all Legions did back then was walk behind a Survivor, get their power to 15% and FF them, which was basically unavoidable, then get stunned out of the power and rinse and repeat until the Survivor went down. If you REALLY want that back, use Franks Mixtape - that one allows you to continue doing that, buuut you cant 15% your power anymore and you cant run around spamming M1 until you hit them.
the entirity of the Legions old chase aspect was cheesy and not ment to be used in the way it was. Legion wasnt ment to tunnel down somoene like that, they were ment to play the way they currently do - running around, spreading the damage and then hunting the Survivors down manually.
I'd also like to add to this: from my experience, not as a Legion main, but as someone who has really gotten into the killer, ever since the nerfs didnt make me feel dirty and unskilled for playing them and played them a lot, Legion is pretty underrated.
Legion is indeed a very lethal killer. He no longer is the most unskilled killer in the game though, instead you will actually have to pull off some skillfull plays when you do want to catch someone with them. They are not great, but they can be very freaking deadly.
Ive killed sooo many survivors who were like "oh, pffffff, its a legion! whats he gonna do?" and started mending in my face uppon being hit with FF or disrespecting me in other ways.
The entirety of the old chase mechanic this killer had was bad gamedesign and for the overall health of the game its the best they removed it.
Sorry, but as a guy who has play the Legion to pre and post rework times and also Trapper, Meyers, Ghostface, Clown, Nurse, Hillbilly, Huntress and 2x times (thx to red addons) the Pig, I need to say that the Legion without addons needed not more or less skill as many other killers.
We can take out here maybe Huntress and Nurse, since they are so extrem different to anything else we can compare.
With addons, yes, it was a no skiller. That's why the Legion had made no fun with addons, in my opinion.
I mean, where is the fun in a almost never ending frenzy with stronger knife attacks, thanks to some addons?
Had feel shallow, the 1x time I tested it. Without addons, it was fun and I mean real fun.
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@Artick said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1461340#Comment_1461340
Dude, just stop. With "too oppressive" he meant survivors felt like they can't do anything against The Legion, there was not counterplay to how easy it was for him to follow someone and hit him 3 times + the moonwalking exploit.
In a PVP game everyone has to have at least a chance. If they don't, they stop playing.
I had never denie that the Legion was too oppressive with exploits and/or the right addons.
That they clearly was.
What I denie was, that the Legion was too oppressive without exploits and/or addons.
And my point of view to this is... If you have a problem with exploits and/or addons, fix the exploits and change or delete the addons.
The Legion without those things had counterplay. But I will not write everything about it down here again, for 2 reasons:
1- It doesn't matter anymore. The new Legion has a new playstyle and needs a different counterplay because of it.
2- It is a waste of time. The people who think that the Legion without addons had no counterplay would not even read a tutorial about how to do counterplay if it would include a hint to a autowin button. They stay by their opinion no matter if this opinion is right or wrong.
That is just my experience, sorry and no offence.
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The Legion members are young adults.
You can see them between 18-19 years to 21-22 years. Depending of which person we talk.
Would bhvr revert the rework, I would be totally happy again what DBD matters.
I don't care about the rest of the stuff. I just want to play my old Legion and I am happy again. If the devs have doubts about this idea, they could easilie delete just every addon that either makes the frenzy longer, or the knife attacks stronger. The Legion was harder to play without them, but that was exactly the right thing to have fun with them.
About "too oppressive" I can just sad laugh.
1) DBD has a horror theme. Nobody can denie this and a good horror theme is always oppressive.
2) How do we call then SWF's, always playing against the same survivor perks, insta-down abilities of other killers, keys&moris and so on? Is that not "oppressive"? Not that would be a bad thing after all. I am not against SWF's, even I am a killer main. Also I can see a use in the rest of the things.
3) I still doesn't care for the feelings of DC'ers. 1 or more persons doesn't care for his team and dc's and I should feel pity for them? Will never happen, not in a thousand years.
4) The survivors who were most vocal about a Legion nerf, were the survivors who have not watch one single video of how to play against the Legion and they had not read one single tutorial. From where I know this? Because I had link and write them such tutorials to this time. But for sure, they had watched the Legion op videos with the exploits or op addons.
Come on... No normal person can take such learn resistant persons honest...
5) The Legion without frenzy addons was not oppressive. I know this, because that was how I have played the Legion to this time. In 95%+ of my matches I had never use a addon, or at a maximum the brown ones. I just had 1x time test the purple ones and after "whoa, those are op as f..." I had touch them never again.
Btw. Don't be mad at me now for this, but that topic is not like everything else DBD releated for me. It is a heart topic :).
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I am also think, that the devs should think on the fun parts, but not to much.
They should always try to think on both sides with a higher awarnes for the people that have to live with their nerfs*, if they gonna nerf something and I at least have often the feeling, that they ignore at least 1 side of the coin.
*As example: If they nerf a killer, the nerf will be more annoying for the killerplayerbase, because they will see the outcome in every match, while the survivors anyways see that killer only once or two times a day.
The same can we put towards survivor nerfs.
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Can't tell you what someone drives to write after the game on a steampage of a stranger in a toxic way, or similar things on the consoles.
I think such people don't even notice how ridiculous they appear to readers that are not connected to dbd.
It is the best to put your steam page on private. Saves you time that you would otherwise have to spend with deleting those messages^^.
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@DrDeepwound said:
It is okay to feel these emotions young Legion.
You are feeling the frustration of a killer punished by their creator for the actions of a minority of the user base who enjoyed this wonderful, and top notch killer.
One day though, rest assured we shall have our return. Old debts shall be paid, old revenge will come to fruition and Legion will one day be freed from the shackles, and unleashed into the fog with a new fury that only downed survivors can satisfy.
One day Legion. One day
A posting that hits right into my heart <3.
To the thread starter: Understand the Legion today as a fast m1 killer and play him as this and most of the matches will be ok with 1-3 kills.
Forget dw. It distracts you more from actual killing someone, as it helps by this task. Use the killersight to find survivors and after you have found them, m1 them on the same way, as you do it already with so many other killers.
That means, you have to be good in m1 mindgames, but that is imo not really hard. All what is needed, is few weeks pratice.
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My solution for mending time is simple: Just delete the dw effect.
I at least, had never meet a guy to pre rework times that had play the Legion because of the dw abilitie. That had only came up, after bhvr turned the Legion into an easy-to-adapt-m1 killer.
The people, including me, had play the Legion because they wanted to play a fast killer that can also be dangerous and some of them also because of their story, like me.
Nothing of this needs necessarly a dw effect.
Ideas of people like you @gunslingers_potatoe are most times well worked out and well thought out, but I am afraid, that the dw effect is just something that the devs use to denie any buffs for the Legion. Aka. "Uw, what do you want? You guys can already injure people faster as almost everyone!" People: "Because we want that the Legion... Argh forget it. It is already said a thousand times by now."
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@Tactless_Ninja said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1456221#Comment_1456221
Ok, but do people tunnel the same person to death when their ability works muuuuch better if they spread out? The answer was absolutely yes because they wouldn't spread out when their ability TOLD them there were more people nearby but still managed to be willfully ignorant.
DBD is dead? Could've fooled me. This more Billy crying? I'm going to play the ######### outta the chainsaw bros when they drop. I actually bought The Cannibal over a year ago. Clearly I have brain problems for doing that because he low tier keelir.
And how do you define strong killer? Cheap? Broken? Someone with a low skill ceiling who can dumb their way into a 4k?
Well, I don't know where I have write that DBD is dead.
I have wrote that people left DBD for a variety of reasons. Still, some of them coming back and DBD gains some completely new players. As you can see in the steam statistics, outwight this the people who left DBD.
I just doubt that DBD could die for one single reason and also not because of the pre patch Legion. For that, had the pre patch Legion to many people who have like them.
Just because some people were very vocal to the time of the rework of the Legion, doesn't mean they were the majority. My endgame chats and my talks with the people - outside of those forums - had look totally differently to what you had read here, to this time.
That was also a reason why I was so surprised by the rework patch -> I had never thought for a second, that bhvr would take those guys seriously, but they have sighs.
Billy is as example a strong killer, or basicly every killer who the majority of the playerbase is succesfull with and that was with the Legion not the case, otherwise the killrate of the Legion would have been higher to this time.
The point is, the Legion was weak to pre patch times, if you had not use their stronger addons, or exploits. A prove for this is already, that you can't find any op video of the Legion to that time, without such exploits or addons.
Would have been the Legion op without addons or exploits, you can be sure, some streamer would have show it, but not a single one had done it - far as I know and now, you know the reason for it ;).
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@Tactless_Ninja said:
Old Legion also crashed the game. People weren't quitting, the game would ######### crash. Also people were quitting because he tunneled you to death. Soooo fuuuun.
Though I admit, I do miss how FAST he was.
And how is knowing where literally every survivor is hiding and taking off a health state not a good ability? That's the trade off for all the conditions. You can get max points in every game without killing a single person.
You can tunnel with the most killers someone to death. All what is necessary for it, is the will of the killer for it.
Also people left dbd for a variety of reasons. DBD would still be alive, if the old Legion would exist, I bet.
I have good memories on those times. Even if I was a Legion main to that time, my endgame chat was always either quiet, or full of nice people. I had even make screenshots of it, for the case if someone would doubt this.
The Legion itself was not a strong killer. What strong was, were the exploits and not even a handful of addons. I still have the opinion - if addons are a problem -> the addons should be nerfed and I think nobody would have complain about that, besides maybe some streamers, because then they would not be able anymore to show a op Legion^^.
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@thrawn3054 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1456124#Comment_1456124
The problem is old Legion was simply too oppressive. There was no way to actually have an enjoyable match against Legion back then. They were literally impossible to escape in a chase. As I said, they did over nerf them. But they badly needed a change.
Well, I think there differently and I have knew many people on both sides (killer and survivors) who have think differently, but of course there were also people that have dislike the Legion.
But that have you to every killer, abilitie, perk, or whatever. The threads in those forums are a great example for that.
Anyways. I would be already happy if bhvr would finally admit that they have overdrawn the rework patch and done it with the wrong intentions in their mind, but well I don't think I will ever read that.
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@thrawn3054 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1455669#Comment_1455669
Pre rework Legion was not perfect. They were absolutely miserable to face. Which is not to say I agree with how far they went. From the time I've spent playing Legion I found a few things that I felt needed tweaked.
I think the stun should move down to 3 seconds. The Frenzy power meter should not be depleted by basic attacks. I think you shouldn't lose you power from on missed hit. I feel if a hit was missed it should deplete 50% of the power bar. And if you connect on the second swing you only get 50% of the bar back. Not a complete refill. Lastly I think the power bar should only take 15 seconds to refill at base.
Well, every person has things he like, or dislikes. I have never deny it. Even in the days back then, but it is also true, that not every person has the same preferences and in my opinion - a multiplayer game should try to make everyone happy and not crushing one feature down, just because some people scream to loud.
What the new Legion matters... Well there are plenty of tiny possibilities to buff them. Yours are one of them. Even if after that the Legion would still feel like a m1 killer to me imo and that lets a bad taste in my mouth.
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@kosmi said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/173059/why-was-this-change-for-legion-introduced
Don't know what is problem with legion now i can even storm swf with him at high ranks. But if you want frenzy for 25% at current recharge rate and new bleeding mechanics then you will simply waste his power since some survs won't be able to med fast enought and also you can always save his power.
For many people it is not the question if the Legion should be buffed, or nerfed.
If we just go after the data, that bhvr has publish, the new Legion is better. The killrate of the current Legion lays by 65% or higher, I believe (can't find the posting yet from bhvr about the last killer-killrates).
The killrate of the old Legion had lay, even with cleary op addons and 2 exploits, by somewhat between 20-30%.
The point is, with the rework has gone the "soul" of the Legion.
To pre patch Legion times, the Legion had a unique playstyle, like the Nurse as example and many miss that playstyle.
Would bhvr tomorrow build a Legion abilitie with what we would be able to instantly kill every survivor in a match, I still would want the old Legion back, because of this unique playstyle (well and because I was never be a fan of anything op, if I am honest and such a killbutton would be op :) ).
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@DrDeepwound said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1455669#Comment_1455669
I was glued to the drama back then too, and the funny thing is, those big streamers were not banned for literally showing the Legion exploit for hours and hours everyday.
They banned no name people who dont stream, but the streamers who were showing how to walk backwards to kill with Legion, well they are still around. Your post is spot on
Thanks and yes, in my eyes - there would I start with banning.
Sure, everyone should be informed about exploits - so that you know, that you see a exploit if it happens in your matches - but nobody should teach it someone.
If banning really is a thing, first the guys who teach someone how to play against the rules should be banned. Otherwise the problem persist.
That is my point of view to it.
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To the time where the rework of the Legion had happened, 1-2 bigger streamer (far as I know) were with crocodile tears complaining about the Legion. I guess for publicity reasons, because most of the things they have complain about were either not possible, or not possible in parts.
Also there was a very vocal part of the survivor base, that had cry for nerfs. I have talk a lot with them and they were not willing to learn, to that time.
They had on purpose not watch any training video against Legion's abilities and not care to read 1 single tutorial in the forums. Instead they have mostly watch those streamers, that have either show exploiting Legion's, or Legion's with op addons equipped.
To this day! I have not seen one op video of the Legion from this time, that had not fall in one of the categories above.
Those guys had overvoice the Legionplayerbase and the survivors who have stay neutral.
The Legion pre rework was perfect, if the killer player has use no exploits and stayed away from the strong addons.
In my eyes, BHVR had just punish every Legion player for the deeds of a small part of the Killerplayerbase of that time.
Legionplayers were the only ones that got banned for exploiting on a scale like this and we were the only ones that got a nerf... sorry rework like this.
To this day it is a red flag for me and I know many players who see it on the same way.
TL:DR The Legion rework was not a rework. It was a insult right in the face of every honest playing player.
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@Calisto_667 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1453630#Comment_1453630
So you basically prefer a boring match of survivors hiding the whole time and go down in two seconds in a chase than a real challenge because when you get survivors that are challenging and good you get trashed and get 0 kills right? Makes no sense. As a rank 2 killer right now I like survivors who try hard and give me a challenge regardless if I get them all or not. I dont want hiding potatoes in my lobby
Didn't know we knew each other, or have you just speculate?
I am ok with my abilities. God knows not everyone can say that about himself. I even don't and have never need op perks like ruin, or noed to get my kills, like so many "red rank" killers. Even I need to admit that I was it by myself for a short while, until I had question myself, why I should play in that toxic enviroment there? Then I had downrank on purpose.
But to answer your question, hunting stealthy survivors, or being one of them fits more the horror theme for me.
Also who says that a stealther is bad at chases?
It can be of course, but it is not necessarly this way. Like not every runner is good in chases. Even they for sure think, they are :|.
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Can't decide... A kate with which I farmed to pre Legion rework times, because 2 survivors had not pass the loadingscreen and one dc'd I believe... Its a long time ago.
Several times I freaked her out, that she thought I would kill her in the match, but I didn't and that girl had really ovaries made of steel :) (since she can't have the bal..., okay, I think that was enough explanation...).
The other time were for a few months. 3 survivors had slowly teabag for me near a door of the house in the south on that yokatuda... how ever this map is called correctly.
It had look so funny, but also so strange. To this day I don't know why they have act like this. At the end I have kill them, after watching them for 20secs+ with a question mark above my head. Survivors are sometimes so confusing, I tell ya!
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@Yung_Slug said:
I wouldn't trust the devs to know which perks are powerful and which ones aren't.
They could talk with the community via the forums here. I guess even people who haven't played dbd for years would know which perks are considered as op, if they just read the last 3 forum pages and that counts to any time, I guess *sad sigh* ^^.