TWiXT
TWiXT
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The Plague is the only killer who consistently puts survivors between a rock and a hard place. Don't cleanse, and they experience a worse version of NOED all game long; Cleanse, and they give her the best ranged damage the game offers. When you build with her you have to take both of these situations into account. By far the strongest build I have for her is: Dying Light, Pop Goes the Weasel, Surge, Thanatophobia.
It's a brutal build for survivors, even in the higher ranks because:
- The obsession doesn't get to take advantage of the 33% buff to healing
- Surge activates almost every time its available against survivors who refuse to cleanse at fountains, and when paired with DL and Thana, that 8% of damage takes much longer for the survivors to fix every passing minute, effectively slowing their progress to a crawl.
- Pop devastates their advanced progress on gens
- Eventually they are forced to either let the Obsession die in order to counter DL, or start cleansing to counter Thana... Either way is not good for them.
Plague overall is not a weak killer! Quite the opposite actually, because she has the advantage of being highly underrated. With builds like this one, she becomes unstoppable, and that's the point really... If she were to get buffed however, the only real buffs I'd suggest are as follows:
- Give survivors the Hindered status whenever they vomit for the duration of the vomiting. This is a small and periodic de-buff to survivors that makes the Plague more of a threat in a chase but not so much that she becomes OP or too oppressive, and it would encourage survivors to cleanse at fountains more.
- Also while a survivor vomits give them a 6m AoE that infects everything within its radius. This allows the sickness to spread throughout the maps less predictably and reduces the workload on the Plague herself. Currently survivors spread the sickness to each other by rescuing an infected survivor, working on a gen with a fully infected survivor or healing a downed infected survivor, all of which required direct interactions, otherwise the Plague has to infect them and objects herself all of the time. Adding this will make the sickness spread feel more like a Plague, apply more pressure to the map for her, make the add-on's that increase infection time on objects more noticeable, increase the chances of the sickness spreading to other survivors, and help her gain the contagious (25bp) scoring events more often.
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@Carpemortum said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/718819#Comment_718819
Well, they said make "A" pun. Not all of them. So you kinda just took most if the fun out of it when they also said, "dont re use puns".
I corrected it... I may have a Dark Sense for these things, but overall my Mad Grit for making puns shouldn't deter your, or others, fun. Make your Choice, and have a good time coming up with material, and maybe together we can make a Monstrous Shrine of this post.
BTW @yandere777 I love your name, and it helped inspire my main comment. 😍
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wow... I didn't think my submission was gonna be THAT effective at deterring others from trying to make a post. Come on people, lets have some fun with this!
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@YeetoDorito said:
This is what i wanted for the addon so yes i think its a good idea
Thank you for your support, hopefully the devs will take this into consideration.
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@Soulslayer618 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/718270#Comment_718270
it takes time and most of the views are just lurkers (like me) they saw your suggestion but didnt say anything and thats ok
just give it time and more people will see it
Sorry, I Feel sensitive when I make suggestions like this, and no one gives any feedback. It's like "why even bother?"
Please, if you like this idea show your support via up-votes or comments, and if you don't like it, give me some creative criticism explaining why. None are unwelcome here! That's what these forums are for right?
EDIT:
Added the latter statement to the post
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Ok, Fine, I'll retract this suggestion. 3 up-votes out of 34 views must mean that its not as good of a QoL change as I thought it would be. Sorry for wasting everyone's time.
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@LordGlint said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/718184#Comment_718184
No one's gonna follow THAT...
😋
Vote it up then.
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We're Gonna Live Forever!... Is what they said, but I'm feeling like my Botany Knowledge, and Sprint Burst capable physique are just prolonging the event where No One Escapes Death. Sigh, I feel like that prissy Claudette has become a Bitter Murmur to us recently after we all died (Again) but she still maintains her haughty Self-Care as the last "Hope" for us even after our previous match with a Bloodhound of a killer. Our Leader wasn't any better to be honest; Telling us "Prove Thyself" while the coward won't even stay out of those Iron Maidens we occasionally use for cover. At least You my girl Feng are a Technician, and are incredibly Alert to where the killer is. Me? I have an Iron Will, and I'll prove to you some day that not all people are so Open Handed!
I take pride in our connection, and although I'm a Lightweight when it comes to confessions, I won't give you any Distortion's or Distractions because I've set my sights Dead Hard on you and you alone, no matter how Insidious that may seem. I know our Empathy can reach each-other because we're Kindred spirits, but without my Inner Strength showing through, you'll always see our situation as "This is not Happening" despite the fact that we're Better Together. In this chaotic world, I feel Cruel Limits whenever we're together, and after having experienced so much with you, you still inspire me to believing "We're Gonna Live Forever!" and I'm not sorry any more, no Flip-Flops allowed, while I'm writing this, I must take this chance to break through our mere Quick and Quiet flirtation and declare... We'll make it!
Our Windows of Opportunity have been few, but I've recently achieved a Second Wind of encouragement, and a Surge of Resilience has Poised me to confront you, my Object Of Obsession, with this revelation. Head On, I am Fixated on us legitimately becoming a thing, and am ready to shout out loud (Buckle Up): "I Love You Feng Min!" Our Borrowed Time together goes beyond mere Camaraderie at this point, and although some may see my feelings towards you as a Break Down; My Calm Spirit, and Our Bond have finally Boiled Over to the point where if I'm with you, you'll never be Left Behind.
I get a Spine Chill every time you glance at me, and my Unbreakable Spirit just wants to Up the Ante whenever I return your Gaze. I don't care if you tell me to Wake Up, or take pride in your Solidarity. My Plunderer's Instinct tells me that your Slippery Meat has been Enduring for too long without some playful Agitation, and I am your Deliverance. My Dark Devotion won't abandon what we have, and although I may come across as a Beast of Prey right now, I'm All Ears to your needs and confident that together we'd be a Knock Out in the sack. I guarantee I'll Overcharge your senses, and titillate your soul with my Overwhelming Presence, until the Whispers grow so loud that our love becomes an Unnerving Presence to all others at the campfire!
I don't give a damn about them anymore. I'm Fired Up! Ready, and although I know we won't Bamboozle the others for long, our passion will remain our Ace in the Hole, and while our Adrenaline pumps feverishly as you Dance with Me, any Spies from the Shadows will be so jealous of what we have that we'll cause Discordance for sure, but If you'll have me, I swear I'll Save the best for Last, and make you Remember Me.
Love
Nea Karlsson
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Yeesh, Don't all speak up at once now...
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@FriendlyGuy said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/716295#Comment_716295
That's my problem with "Surge". When "Surge" only activates two times per match, i think it's a wasted perk slot.
With Plague, it activates much more frequently. Otherwise, I'd have never considered it for the build. Albeit, there are some large maps like Rotten Fields, Temple of Purgation, and Disturbed Ward that hinder its effectiveness because of how spread out the gens are. However, it's still useful on those maps because it still buys you more seconds to punish gens with Pop after it activates. Obviously, small maps are where it shines brightest, but even on medium-large maps it can still do it's job. Rarely can a survivor, 1 shot away from down, get more than 32m from the gen they were working on, and that is where Plague + Surge work best together. That's not to say its perfect for the build, just good for it. I'm sure Ruin, M&A, or Corrupt intervention are fine replacements for it: I just feel that it's a decent time saver for the killer and time eater for the survivors in this build at mid-end game.
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Hag traps have huge AoE.
Clown Bottles have Huge AoE.
Trappers Traps Stay where you put them and flat out stop survivors in place when triggered.
Billy, Spirit, Doctor and Leather Face have a completely different mechanic that doesn't impede survivors movement speed.
And Huntress can hit people from across the map.
Freddy's Snares are small, don't affect survivors that are awake, take 1 second to charge before putting them down, and can be easily avoided if you watch your step. I believe these are the reasons he doesn't have/need a "penalty" for using them.
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3 reasons why I use a mori:
- Had a frustrating previous game and need to blow some steam on the next group (this is rare).
- Daily Objective ("With (killer), kill a survivor by your hand")
- To de-rank to the less frustrating ranks. Mori's don't lose too much BP, but devastate your rank scoring since you aren't getting more than 1 hook per survivor. At rank 5+ this almost always = de-pip. Using mori's this way, you get to play the game relatively normally and still drop rank without resorting to toxic DC'ing, or pathetically losing on purpose.
Other than those reasons, there's no point to using them at all IMO.
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If the portals were active as soon as he set them, then he'd have the same issue trapper does:
Set them not knowing a survivor is around to witness it + leave the area = instant disarm.
At least with the portals being invisible when inactive, you can surprise survivors. IMO, the killer instinct detection of the portals is the worst part of them since it affects such a small radius. Their real value is in the map pressure and jump scare potential they provide, so making them activated from the moment they are set down would be very detrimental to those aspects.
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@[Deleted User] said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/716338#Comment_716338
I think the numbers are fine. I’ve been dominating hard with Plague since you posting about this but WITHOUT PGTW (I can’t Plague without Corrupt Intervention). Increased percentages on Surge + all the other perks it can synergise with would make it too overbearing and overwhelming for survivors.
Corrupt Intervention Makes sense; Why go to them when you can force them to come to you? You probably get more usage out of surge too, and earlier downs, which works in favor for DL. However, I still think that if its going to become something more universally useful to killers, possibly even meta, it will need that 12% damage, and removal of the Basic attack requirement.
The % increase might actually be unnecessary if the Basic attack requirement was not involved, because it's really the biggest problem for Surge that restricts who can use it to Only those who can 1 shot with a basic attack (Plague, Shape, Ghost Face). Let face it, if you use Surge with any other M1 killer like Doctor or Clown, even without that requirement, when you hit a survivor putting them into the injured state: they're going to get more than 32 meters away from the gen by regardless before you down them. In the case of killers with damaging powers like Huntress, Billy, and even Demogorgon however, Why wouldn't you try to down a survivor with their power? Forcing them to have to M1 in order to activate it is impractical, and the precise reason why Infectious Fright removed that requirement. That requirement is just far too restrictive, especially when paired with a 40 second cooldown and limited range of effect.
So many people in the community think the Demogorgons Perks are utter crap, and who can blame them? They gave the Survivors of the DLC decent and useful perks, but the Killers perks are highly situational and under-powered for pretty much every killer, including the killer they came out with. Take Surge as a prime example, if not for this Plague build and 2 other perks backing it up, it would be utter trash. I don't think the changes I've suggested would make it OP in any way, but would make it much more useful and viable to all killers.
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The sole reason I P3'd Demogorgon is because it makes him look much darker than his default bright-white self, and more threatening. However, Nurse and Hag both got him beat when it comes to sheer horror of their P3 outfits... they're literally saturated in blood, like they both jumped into a pool of it and revel in the fear it inspires.
As for Survivors... P3 Claudette, Adam, and Bill are the bloodiest IMO, which makes it look like they've been through hell and back. When the cosmetics were darker before the 3.0.0 update, Claudette's used this to great effect for camouflage in most maps, now though, its not so great for that purpose.
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@[Deleted User] said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/716282#Comment_716282
This has been my point about Surge all along too. The regression surge provides is just a nice little bonus. The real value is the time it saves.
Still, I wish they'd raise the damage it does from 8% back up to 12%, since there's only a 2 second difference there when it comes to repairing the damage. I'd also like them to remove the silly "Down survivor with Basic Attack" requirement... It didn't work for Infectious Fright, and its not working too well for Surge. Once they removed that requirement from IF, it became universally useful to all killers, and like I've said, right now Plague seems to be the only killer who can really take advantage of Surge due to this stupid requirement. It would be great If Billy could come charging in, chainsaw down a survivor, and have Surge damage all gens in the area... Sigh.
Also I'm glad you're liking the build, I've been having a blast with it at ranks 7-3, and with Plagues Black Incense add-on, It just becomes borderline unfair to the poor survivors. 😋
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@FriendlyGuy said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/90632/i-think-the-devs-broke-the-plague
Complaining about a mid tier killer with mid tier perks, because both synergize too good. Replace "Surge" with "Hex: Ruin" or "Monitor & Abuse" to make the build even stronger. I mean it's very difficult to vs, but so are some other combos too.
There are reasons I put Surge in the build:
- Plague downs almost everyone with basic attacks only. I say "almost" because when they get desperate they actually start cleansing, and then she can down them with corrupt purge. Essentially, Plague is really the only killer who can take the most advantage of Surge's effect.
- I timed how long it takes a lone survivor to repair the 8% loss. When the gen explodes, there is a 3 second delay before they start making progress again, after that it takes 6 seconds of repair time to make up for the damage. This is where DL and Thana really synergize with Surge. At 4 stacks of DL, plus the full thana de-buff, 3 members of the team suffer a progression speed reduction rate of 28%, or .76 charges per second. 8%/0.76 = 10 seconds + 3 seconds of delay = 13 seconds. At that point in DL's stacks you have increased the time to repair the 8% damage from 9 seconds, to 14 gaining an additional 5 seconds. At 6 stacks of DL+ full thana and a 34% progress speed reduction, that rises to 16.63 seconds. in other words, if a gen was at 90%, and gets hit with Surge, you just bought yourself 14-16.63 seconds to hook the guy and then punish the gen with PGTW if someone was working on it. That's not even mentioning the moments when you hit multiple gens with Surge.
Compared to normal gen kicks which don't apply any damage and take up valuable time, this becomes a serious time saver and helps apply more gen pressure. Yeah, it's not too great early in the match, but by mid-end game, it becomes a devastating time eater for the survivors that gives you a decent advantage to stop them from finishing gens.
I have also tried replacing PGTW with Thrilling Tremors in the build because that adds another 5% loss on the Surged gens due to the regression rate, which would take 17 seconds at 4 stacks of DL to repair, and 19 seconds at 6 stacks, but in the end, nothing quite beats the sudden 25% drop from PGTW, which takes a considerably longer amount of time to repair with this build.
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Or, If you're the obsession, Let yourself Expire on the hook and hope no one else brought in DS. If you're the rest of the team, Don't rescue the obsession... but who can resist those sweet altruism points?
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@FairP1ayer said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/713739#Comment_713739
I wouldn’t be surprised, the penalty you’ll get for Freddy while doing these and Sloppy with his Rope and Chain add ons…ugh I’m disgusted just thinking about it! >_<
@TWiXT said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/713739#Comment_713739
On any other killer survivors can heal, distract the killer, and rush gens before DL builds up enough, but on Plague its just evil. I sincerely hope they don't nerf it with a "perks don't stack" thing because like i said, its still counter-able with all other killers. She just has an built in advantage with it.
ok, ALMOST all other killers (i forgot about Freddy)... Still that's only 2 killers that get a massive advantage from it, out of 17. I hope that's not enough to warrant a nerf.
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@blue4zion said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/713732#Comment_713732
This is a fantastic build! I have Thana permanent on her, but I might also be adding on Dying Light. I really like the combo of those two perks!
That being said, I really really feel there's going to be a nerf or some sort of "these perks don't stack" that'll happen. Enjoy this while we can!
On any other killer survivors can heal, distract the killer, and rush gens before DL builds up enough, but on Plague its just evil. I sincerely hope they don't nerf it with a "perks don't stack" thing because like i said, its still counter-able with all other killers. She just has an built in advantage with it.
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Awww... Does this mean we don't get to milk squishy tumors this year? Bummer... that was one of the funnest events they've had.
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@FairP1ayer said:
I’m personally really digging the new Dying Light, now I don’t need to sweat and Mori the Obsession off the hook when I’m sick of Ruin getting destroyed the 1st 30 seconds of the game. All you gotta do is down everyone as quickly and effectively as possible and try no to take out the Obsession until it is clear things are in your favor.
I've actually had a couple of obsessions DC for the good of the team. In one match it might've saved their team too... if not for the guy with DS. I am thoroughly enjoying this build, and confident that it raises Plagues viability.
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The Moldy Legion mask (frank). and the Splintered set for Hag. They used to be so dark that they were practically black which looked awesome, but after the devs did this update:
Adjusted certain darker cosmetics that gave players an advantage to be lighter. (Update 3.0.0)
That mask and the Hag skin got brightened up so much that they practically look like the default skins. I understood it needed to be done for the survivors; invisible Claudette's and Adam's were plaguing the game with a natural advantage, but doing this for killers made no sense whatsoever. Unlike survivors, the killers have a great red beacon coming from their forehead and a TR to tell you they are in the area. Even worse, take GF, as a "Stealth" killer the last thing he needs is bright cosmetics! He still has the bright mask, so giving him a dark outfit as an advantage actually works to aid his jump scares and play-style, but the darkest outfit he has is his default one, and that is a laughably easy to spot bright gray! The whole reason I bought those cosmetics was because it made the killers dark and creepy, but it did nothing to give them an advantage because of their Red Stain and TR. Killers don't need to hide like survivors do, unless they are stealth killers, so why the hell brighten up their cosmetics? There have never been any complaints about killers being too hard to see due to the cosmetics, but in contrast there has been a plethora of them concerning survivors. Gimme back my killers creepy dark cosmetics!
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My Battle Plan?
"To Crush your enemies, see them driven before you, and to hear the lamentation of their women!" - Conan
😝
In all seriousness though, as a killer main I have a rule during these events: If I see 2+ BPS/Gateau's and the survivors make it apparent that they want to farm, I'll abide. If not, I'll be my normal merciless self but thank them for the points afterwards. Also I never use mori's during a 2x BP event because that just loses me points.
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@Jimsalabim said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/709990#Comment_709990
wow thank you so much for these stats, i was looking for that.
I didnt know that 2 addons helped reduce the time to recover from breaking a pallet.
Does that make these 2 addons the strongest he has? after all they are only brown and yellow addons
Not necessarily the strongest add-on's, but they aren't anything to snub or overlook because of their common/uncommon rarity. With these 2 add-on's the demo can actually chain his shreds to catch up to fleeing survivors, but doing so is a bit awkward. You also have to remember that as far as shredding pallets is concerned; if you don't already have the attack charged up for .65 seconds before the pallet is dropped, you add that .65 seconds to the total pallet shred time making it 2.65 seconds with the black heart add-on, or 2.4 seconds with Black Heart + Mew's guts, and getting your timing perfect can be tricky. IMO, The new Red Moss is actually a very powerful add-on by comparison since the Web Cap add-on's only add .5 seconds and 1 second to the undetectable time whereas Red moss adds a whopping 8 seconds to undetectable (for a total of 10 seconds) but 10 seconds to the traversal recovery time. I know the downside seems to diminish its effectiveness, but in practice it insanely revs up on his jump scare potential.
There's also the Tripe and Deer Lungs add-on's that make traversing the upside down 1.8 seconds faster at the furthest distance, which basically makes it almost instant if you are going to a mid-close range portal (3 seconds - 1.8 seconds = 1.2 seconds at max distance), guaranteeing that survivors don't get far enough away from the portal when you catch them sealing it. Then there's the Viscous webbing (1.5 seconds) Thorny Vines (1.5 seconds) and the Upside down resin (3 seconds) that add time to sealing portals for a max of 4.5 seconds when survivors try to seal them which normally takes 12 seconds. At 16.5 seconds of sealing time that gives the demo a 2.5 second buffer after he uses his portal and goes into his default 14 second recovery time, so even if 1 survivor immediately started sealing the portal after he used it, he's gonna be able to come back and stop them before they finish. Then there's the Rat Liver which is a highly underrated common add-on. Rat liver increases his Movement Speed from 3.68 m/s while charging his Shred to 4.01 m/s, which definitely gives him an advantage when rounding corners on loops while charging his attack. Rat Tail likewise reduces his portal setting time from 1 second to .5 seconds, as well as the time it takes him to open the portal and jump in from 1.5 seconds to .75, which shaves a little extra time off of his travel and setup.
Barbs Glasses (1.5 seconds), Elevens Soda (2 seconds), and Unknown Egg (2.5 seconds) also can be stacked to reduce his portal traversal cooldown from 14 seconds to 9.5 seconds at maximum making it available to use more frequently. Mew's Guts + Rotten Pumpkin give you a maximum of 8 portals which gives you better coverage of the map and thus more map pressure. Finally there's the Sticky Lining and Thorny Vines which both increase the Portals detection range by 1.5 meters each for a total of 3 meters. The standard detection range of the portals is 4 meters so with both of those add-on's it becomes an 7 meter detection radius which means you can set portals a little further from objectives and still be able to detect survivors. On paper this doesn't seem like much but in practice it's an enormous improvement if you want to use the portals to find survivors around the map.
I hope this information will help you in deciding which add-on combinations you'll build around. IMO, the best add-on's are Mew's Guts, All the Common add-on's, Red Moss, Deer Lung + Tripe, and Either the Sealing time add-on's, or the Traversal cooldown ones. Of those however, the most powerful ones are undoubtedly the Deer Lung + Tripe, and the Red Moss, although this is just my opinion.
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@Seanzu said:
These are terrible and take little into account for other perk combinations
Ruin + Overwhelming + killer standing infront of totem = 0 progression game.
gg
I assume Overwhelming presence is still tied to the killers TR. So if they are standing in front of ruin, that may only cover 1 gen in its effect. Not exactly a 0 progression game in that case, but still, I honestly like its current effect, its a total flashlight killer.
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Here's one you missed.
Spies from the Shadows: Reveals the auras of all crows (in yellow) within a 24/32/40 meter radius. Crows no longer respond to the killers presence, and all disturbed crows have 100% louder volume within the radius.
This gets rid of the godawful loud BANG noise the current version has, the silly 5 second cooldown, and instead lets killers see crows as little signal flares leaping into the sky when disturbed as well as being more audible for the killer so they know which direction to look, Plus the killer doesn't disturb them any more so there's no false signals. It's still completely countered by Calm Spirit and Urban Evasion, and a large number of maps don't have too many crows in key locations (Rotten fields for example doesn't have any crows in the corn field despite the lack of a scarecrow) so its not an overpowered tracking tool, just a far more useful one.
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The big thing that you have to consider as to why Legion needs an ultra rare add-on to break pallets, vs demogorgon is simple: Unlike Demogorgon, who experiences a 2.25 second cooldown after he breaks the pallet, Legion keeps running without any cooldown. That actually makes the automatic pallet breaks worthy of an ultra rare. Can you imagine if, with an ultra rare add-on, if Billy could keep his chainsaw sprint going and just charge through the pallets without stopping? Demogorgon on the other hand has a cooldown from breaking them and doesn't even 1 shot survivors with his Shred attack. This made the Ultra Rare add-on laughably undeserving of its cost, when the ability should always have been base kit. For Legion on the other hand, given that they don't get a cooldown and can keep chasing after vault-breaking the pallet, their add-on's Ultra Rare status makes sense. If it were incorporated as part of their base kit, we'd get nothing but cries for nerfing them... AGAIN... clogging up these forums.
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@TragicSolitude said:
Legion vaulting a pallet is really fast. Demogorgon breaking the pallet with his special attack is not. Someone did the math and it's still slower to break the pallet with the Demogorgon's special attack than it is to break it normally.
Legion's add-ons to "hit a survivor who's already in Deep Wounds state to apply a secondary effect" are terrible and need to be reworked, though.
Normal pallet break time: 2.6 seconds
Pallet break time with BS: 2.08 seconds
Pallet break with BS and FU at 3 stacks: 1.78 seconds
Pallet break with BS+FU at 5 stacks: 1.5 seconds
Demogorgon Shredding a pallet starting with .65 second charge: 3.25 seconds
Demogorgon Shredding a pallet already charged: 2.25 seconds
Demogorgon Shredding a pallet already charged and using Black Heart add-on: 2 seconds
Demogorgon Shredding a pallet already charged and using Black Heart + Mew's Guts add-on's: 1.75 seconds.
Watching survivors Crap themselves as Demogorgon Shreds the pallet they just dropped: Priceless
There's some things Seconds can't buy, for everything else, there's Shred!
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Moss increases it to 10 seconds, Vermilion webcap adds 1 second. so the total you get is 11 seconds of undetectable. It's better to pair red moss with Unknown Egg if you want to mildly counter the recovery rate penalty.
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Short answer: Yes.
Long Answer: Yes, but you have to time it right.
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The Demogorgon doesn't have "NO cooldown" when breaking pallets. He/it still has a 2.25 second cooldown; the same as a missed Shred attack, and the most he can reduce it to is 1.75 seconds using the Mew's Guts and Black Heart add-on's. In comparison, Brutal Strength reduces normal pallet break time to 2.08 seconds, and if you add Fire Up to it, at 3 stacks it reduces the time to 1.76 seconds, and at 5 stacks 1.5 seconds. Shredding pallets is consistently slower than using BS + FU, even with the aid of add-on's. The only thing that makes it a potential threat is the fact that he can charge up another shred attack right afterwards to try and catch up to the survivors, which he can't do if they use any escape perks like Sprint Burst, or Lithe, and if he manages to hit a survivor with it while shredding the pallet they still get the automatic Sprint Burst if its their first hit. Like Billy and LF he has to charge his power before he takes down a pallet with it, at the earliest that adds .65 seconds to the pallet break if he didn't charge it before they dropped the pallet. With charge speed add-on's Billy and LF can do the same thing with a flat 2 second cooldown, and a .5 second charge up, but unlike Demogorgon, they can insta-down with their attack. So while Shredding a pallet seems threatening and gives demo a slight edge in the chase, LF and Billy do it slightly faster by default, they can insta-down survivors with their abilities, and Billy especially takes better advantage of it since he can catch up to survivors easier with his movement speed and ability to turn. I'm honestly not seeing this as anything different or more threatening than what we are already experiencing in game with other killers.
As for the matchmaking algorithm change adjusting SWF groups by making them compete at the rank of the highest ranking member of the group. There have been MANY discussions regarding how powerful SWF groups are with the addition of VOIP communication. Even a group of low rank SWF survivors gain a significant enough competitive edge against killers that they are able to best killers at the Purple and Red ranks. Basically SWF + VOIP = High rank viability due to better coordination. This has been debated, complained about and even proved in videos (the Marth Experiment for example), and remains a hot topic in the community. Having VOIP and a well coordinated team essentially already raises the skill of the group to be competitive enough for the higher ranks, so this change to the ranking system isn't really punishing survivors for getting in SWF groups as much as its acknowledging their advantage and providing them with an adequate challenge based on their best player. This also works in favor of Low rank SWF teams and pretty much gives them easy wins until they rank up enough to get a better challenge. Unlike before when a group of new rank 20 players could find themselves going up against a rank 1 killer, and get decimated; Now they don't have to worry about that happening.
In all honesty, I'm not seeing much to complain about with these changes, and feel they are better for the games overall health and balance, especially where the match making change is concerned.
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@johnmwarner said:
Right, so either way your BPS is worth 32k
So? That's still a bonus of 32k on top of the bonus 32k you get from the event. Using them during the event is still giving you more BP than you would earn any normal day of play. So what if it only maxes out at an additional 32k, that's still more BP! Say you play for 10 games, each taking 10 minutes and use BPS every game while earning the maximum 32k points. That means you get:
Normal:
10 (games) x 32k (base earnings) = 320k + 320k (BPS) = 640k gained in 100 minutes of play time
Event:
10 (games) x 32k (base Earnings) = 320k + 320k (event) + 320k (BPS) = 960k gained in 100 minutes of play time.
You spend the same amount of time and earn a significant amount more than you would using them normally. How is this not beneficial?
If you didn't save the BPS for the event, then playing the event without them would be the same as playing on a non-event day with them, but playing with the BPS during the event is still a big net gain in BP, so why not save a few for the event and take advantage of it?
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@johnmwarner said:
I’m saying there is no different to using your BPS today or during the event.
Not sure I follow. How is there no difference between Using BPS now:
32k (base points) + 32k (BPS) = 64k
And using them during the event:
32K (base points) + 32k (BPS) + 32k (event bonus) = 96k
?
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@johnmwarner said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/706222#Comment_706222
No matter when you use them, a BPS can give a max bonus of 32k. If everyone uses them during a normal day your max BP is 192k if you use them during double event the max bonus is 224 so no there isn’t any “bonus bonus”
BBQ or WGLF can increase those numbers as well of course
224k is still a bonus 32k added to the 192k you would earn otherwise at maximum, so I'm not sure I understand what you mean by saying "so no there isn't any 'bonus bonus' ". I mean obviously the BP bonus is not multiplicative on the base amount, and is instead additive, which is what I visually expressed in my example. To me, a bloodhunt is the same as getting a free BPS (additional 100%) without having to use an offering, whereas using the offering during the event is just adding another BPS in and getting an extra 32k going by your example. Which is a bonus of amount of BP on top of the events bonus... I'm confused, are you agreeing with my comment or saying its wrong?
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Just throwing some suggestions for helping the Pig into the discussion.
Rule Set No. 2 should be implemented as part of Pigs base kit and replaced with:
Heart Monitor Trigger - Ultra Rare
Reverse Bear Traps become active with no timer after a survivor with one attached is unhooked. Once a survivor with an Active RBT is killed or sacrificed, all other active RBT's Trigger.
-Tremendously increases the time it takes a survivor to search Jigsaw Boxes.
-Considerably increases skill check difficulty when a survivor searches a Jigsaw Box.
"His heart stops, you die!" - Amanda Young
Amanda's Letter should be changed to either reduce the time on the only RBT it gives her to 60 seconds, or not decrease the amount of jigsaw boxes in the trial grounds. It could also use a 24m aura reading as opposed to the 12m range it currently has, increase her ambush speed and distance, or just remove the roar until she is already moving.
The point of Ultra Rare add-on's is that they give the killer a massive advantage or change the way the killer uses their power. Currently her 2 UR add-on's are painfully under-powered or mostly useless.
Other than those changes to the UR add-on's, Jigsaw boxes should only feature skill check windows without the Great skill check zones. The boxes only take 12 seconds to search (17.2 with Crate of gears + bag of gears combo), and when a survivor nails all the great skillchecks they can reduce their search to only 7 seconds. This doesn't really put pressure on survivors. Likewise her add-on's that increase skillcheck chances should also reduce the skillcheck success zones, because these add-on's are useless otherwise and often help survivors search faster by providing more great skillcheck chances. If the Boxes had no "Great" zones this change to her skillcheck chance add-on's would be more viable at adding pressure and at least moderately increasing the skillcheck difficulty.
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Here's how I see it:
20k (Base Match Earnings) + 20K (Perk) + 20k (BPS) = 60k (200%)
That's an example of what we can earn right now without the Bloodhunt event. With the event added in you get:
20k (BME) + 20k (Event) + 20k (Perk) + 20k (1 BPS) = 80k (300%)
That's just from 1 person using BPS and a WGLF/BBQ. However, People often save the BPS/Gateau's for this event, so the possibility of more than 1 person using them is higher, and what we get is:
20k (BME) + 20k (Event) + 20k (Perk) + 40k (2 BPS) = 100k (400%)
20k (BME) + 20k (Event) + 20k (Perk) + 60k (3 BPS) = 120k (500%)
20k (BME) + 20k (Event) + 20k (Perk) + 80k (4 BPS) = 140k (600%)
20k (BME) + 20k (Event) + 20k (Perk) + 100k (5 BPS) = 160k (700%)
That's a Significant difference in BP. Even still, if only 1 person is using BPS per match during the event, in my example they are netting an additional 20k more BP for everyone than than they would from participating in the event alone, which means you get more BP for less time played. So yes, It is beneficial to save some of them for the event. I don't understand why people have a hard time grasping this... is my math here wrong, or has there been a change to the bloodhunts I'm not factoring in?
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Oh "Boo Hoo, 1 killer can suddenly make 1 perk useless so they must get nerfed!" you know who else can make BT useless? Doctor, Wraith, GF, Hag, & Shape.
Doctor can trigger BT with a hit, and then shock the unhooked survivor so that they have to get out of madness 3 before the timer runs out, which they never do in time (Madness 3 also prevents hatch escapes). Shape, GF, and Wraith either have a really small TR or can shut it off so it never triggers BT in the first place, and Hag can setup traps near the hooked survivor so that after they are unhooked without BT triggering she can Teleport right to you and knock them back down. Where's the posts demanding nerfs to them?
There aren't any because this isn't a problem and has never been one. You know what other perks Freddy defeats? Distressing, Coulrophobia, Unnerving Presence, Overwhelming Presence, Dark Devotion; Those perks are completely useless to him now. Also, survivors have a plethora of other perks and items that ensure the rescued survivor escapes, For example: Ever since the stranger things chapter went live I've encountered multiple survivors with the Head on, DS, Inner Strength combo that make it so the killer can literally do nothing but take a stun if they tunnel the unhooked survivor.
This is nothing more than a knee jerk reaction to a slight buff that also acts as a nerf for 1 killer, and isn't even considering the alternatives. So what if Freddy defeats BT? That's not a reason to be crying for nerfs to a killer who, up until this years mid summer, had the worst reputation of being the most useless killer in the game. They haven't buffed him to the point of Being OP, hell, this doesn't even make him A tier. Quit complaining, suck it up, and adapt your builds or bring in an insta heal. BT hasn't been the go to "Get outta ######### free card" for a long time against multiple killers, and no one has had a problem with that because they've always had alternatives.
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I think its funny when you use Nurses calling, and traverse the upside down passing healing survivors, you can also see their auras. It's kinda a lesser version of the Ultra rare that lets you see them if they're injured, but it's been very useful regardless. The Ultra Rares would've been more interesting if they changed his power mechanics a bit, Like silencing his travel through the upside down for more jumpscares, letting you eliminate portals to place them elsewhere, decreasing shreds range but considerably reduce its successful attack cooldown for chain shredding, or Make portals slower to traverse, but activated as soon as you place them and increase their survivor detection range to 24m.
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If I'm using BT, and I'm against a Freddy, I just get my clock, fail a skillcheck, or have someone wake me up before going in for the unhook. It's no big deal really, Don't know why everyone's up in arms about it so much.
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@BBQnDemogorgon said:
Not to mention you get punished for not playing a killer you're good with.
Get to rank 1 and try to experiment with a new killer you have few/no perks on and you're gonna have a bad time.
Because you likely wouldn't be there because of the killer you don't play but becof your mains...
Want to derank without getting banned? Too bad play normally as a killer you suck with for hours on end to lose 1 pip at a time.
It's easier to de-rank by using ebony mori's. You end the matches quick, get only 4 hooks, get decent blood points, but your emblem/rank points plummet. Sometime's you safety pip, but that normally only happens in green ranks, in purple and red though, you de-pip constantly because of the mori's. To guarantee a depip with the mori, also use insta-down abilities or add-on's, that way you get half the chaser emblem points you would with normal damage. I've gone in with Iridescent Head huntress and a mori, kill them all, but get "Entity Displeased" and drop rank. Its the fastest and funnest way to De-rank on purpose imo.
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I use them either to do the Daily ritual, or as a tool to De-rank back down to the less frustrating ranks. According to the Devout and Malicious emblem scoring, if you use a mori to kill each survivor after only 1 hook event then you didn't do enough to earn a high enough emblem to get a PiP, and at red ranks it's not enough to even Safety Pip. You still get 6k BP in the sacrifice category, and decent BP in the others, so technically you can earn around 20-25k in BP but still get Entity Displeased because of the Mori. This makes them a useful tool for De-ranking without DC-ing, or Throwing the match by avoiding the survivors. Sometimes you find yourself hating that you earned the high ranks because of how frustrating and toxic the survivors are, and just want to drop back down to the more fun and casual ranks, but still want to save face doing it... Mori's allow this, so why not use them?
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With the Mew's Guts and Rotten Pumpkin add-on's granting me 8 portals, I tried a cheeky tactic that was all about misdirection. I placed 1 portal pretty much in LOS of a gen, and 1 a few meters away and out of LOS of the gen and the 1st portal. Then I opened the first/obvious portals, and periodically checked to see if anyone was near them or trying to seal them. Once it was confirmed that's what they were up to, I Emerged from the hidden portal, and consistently jump-scared the crap outta them with grabs and surprise attacks. Since they were oblivious while sealing portals and they thought they were sealing the only one I put there, I got a lot of early hooks, and survivors became paranoid throughout the match.
This fun little tactic worked pretty well for early-mid game, but by endgame they were much more cautious around the portals, and pretty much gave up on sealing them, which was unfortunate for me since that left me with 0 portals to put down for the rest of the match, but the pressure I applied early-mid game was well worth it.
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Been holding onto 109 Gruesome Gateau's in anticipation of a double BP event, and now its finally happening. I mean there's no way I'll actually have the time to play 109 games and spend it all because I have work, but it'll still be great raking in all that delicious BP for maxing out some characters quickly. At least I'll have leftovers for the next 2x BP event 😁
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I've been having a blast using Plague + Surge because hardly anyone cleanses at fountains, and survivors can't get far enough away from gens before I down them with a basic attack. This pretty much ensures that Surge activates every time it's available, and I kid you not, I have brought a couple of gens from 80% down to 20% just from surge's effect alone (they were determined to get those gens). I'm still trying to come up with a build that works around Surge better on Plague, as currently I'm using BBQ, Thana, M&A, Surge, but thinking of trying Surveillance, Thrilling Tremors, Surge, Pop. Plague benefits best from M&A + Thana though, so maybe when they fix Dying Light, I'll give that a try in place of BBQ, so that The survivors will be slower at making progress and Surge will become a bigger headache for them.
Other than Surge though, I have also had success with Mindbreaker on Pig, and Cruel Limits on Spirit (especially on Haddonfield and Lery's) but they are very niche when it comes to which killers can actually use them, and could do with some buffs/changes to make them more universally useful to all killers.
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Just like with Billy and LF however, the faster break speed won't mean crap if you don't have the power charged up before the pallet goes down. if not you have to charge it 1 second to use it which adds to the time. So yes, with his power Charged to the point he can use it he has potential with those add-on's to wreck pallets faster than using Brutal Strength + Fire Up, but once survivors realize this, they'll likely adapt to throwing down pallets early enough that you have to charge first and spend 1.75 + 1 (for charge up) = 2.75 seconds breaking the pallet.
When it comes to pallet breaking speed, Demo will be the no. 2 killer with the potential for fastest breaks, but no. 1 will always be Wraith with his Shadow Dance add-on's which reduce breaking speed to 1 second flat without aid of perks like BS or FU. Unlike Wraith however, Demo is always in a damaging mode and doesn't have to go into a passive state to perform the faster breaks, so he'll still be better equipped to get advantage on it.
TL;DR
Demogorgon (like Billy and LF) will only get the faster break speed if the power is already charged up before the pallet is dropped, otherwise he'll be slower than the normal break time on pallets when using Shred.
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It hasn't been useless for My Pig Build: Mindbreaker, PGTW, BBQ, Thana. + Amanda's Letter, Video tape. Before mindbreaker Trying an ambush attack almost always resulted in survivors Sprint Bursting away, now however, I'm getting plenty of successful ambush attacks. The only thing that could make my build better is the new Dying Light, but that's bug ridden atm and I haven't been able to properly test it.
Other than on Pig, I haven't really tried it with anyone else yet, so I don't know how good or bad it will be. In theory with Freddy it has potential to keep survivors from gaining too much distance with a SB when teleporting to a gen they were working on, but idk, that 5 seconds of teleporting gives them ample time to shrug off the exhaustion effect, so its probably not that good in practice.
I agree, it would be much better if it either kept the exhaustion on them for 6-10 seconds after leaving the gen, or if it affected them if the gen was under 75% done. As it is right now however, its really niche with who can actually get an advantage from it.
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EW3 Shape using Dead Rabbit add-on, Dark Devotion, Knock out, BBQ/Nurses calling, and Infectious Fright Makes for a scary Mikey Build. You Instant down the Obsession, look around for anyone who screamed with IF, and jumpscare the other survivors who only hear your TR coming from the invisible downed obsession. Also funny is if anyone enters the obsessions TR when you down someone outside of its range, they will still scream. Did that to a 2 man SWF the other day, and if they hadn't have screamed I never would've known their friend was heading in for the heal. The build takes some getting used to, but its lots of fun.
Also undetectable hasn't been applied to other killers or perks yet, but the devs say they'll be rolling that out in updates.
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It Depends on the killer. Like most indoor maps featuring tons of obstacles and line of sight blockers, its not that good for Huntress, Billy, or Nurse, Whereas Stealth killers like GF, Wraith, and Shape (especially with scratched mirror build) have great advantages on it. As for the standard m1 killers like Clown, Legion, and Trapper, its got a ton of frustrating pallets and loops that are difficult to compensate for, and many of them don't have good mindgame potential. These are just my initial reactions to it because I've played it maybe 12 times since its release, but it seems like its best for killers who can use the claustrophobic environment and LoS blockers to their advantage. Pig for example was very fun and the jigsaw boxes spawned in interesting places all over the map, and I had a blast playing with Freddy on it, but Plague really suffered because of all the walls and junk everywhere blocking her vomit. Its not a bad map, but it feels more survivor favored if you aren't using a stealth killer or one who has good movement speed abilities, which can be really frustrating.
I had the worst experience on the new map with Huntress as it was insanely difficult to hit anyone with her hatchets due to all the junk lining the hallways and scattered about in the rooms. I'm betting it'll be Great for Hag though!
On another note regarding the map, I've repeatedly had games canceled either right as the map loads or right after the loading screen... It's been strange, but after having it happen to me 5 times in a row when I used the map offering, I'm convinced survivors just don't like it and are purposely DC'ing when they see the offering. I have no idea why because as I've said, unless you are using one of the 5-ish killers who can take advantage of it, its more survivor favored than killer.
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My current fave is Decisive Strike, Head-on, Inner Strength, We're Gonna Live Forever. It happens all the time, you get unhooked (especially in the basement), but killer is within spitting distance. Jumping in a locker after being unhooked gives the killer 2 options:
- Pull you out of the locker and take the DS
- Leave you in the locker to heal over 8 seconds and then take a head-on stun.
Unless you've already used the DS, you are guaranteed an escape from a camping/tunneling killer, as well as a heal. It's gotta be frustrating as hell for them. You can replace WGLF with something else if you want, personally I just like the extra points, but I've also had fun using Detective's Hunch or Small Game to locate those trickier to find totems (or as I've come to call them after this update: Med-packs).