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Pretty cool perk, actually. :o
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Agitation + Iron Grasp + Mad Grit means I'm good. ;)
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@GrimReaperJr1232 said:
This perk is a hex. There is no changing that; the devs want something that synergizes with Undying since both are Blight's base perks. Despite this, it's balanced as it it was an ordinary perk.
- Remove the cooldown. It is a hex perk. It does not need a cooldown; just have the duration of the perk be the "cooldown".
- Increase the range to at least 24m.
Worth pointing out two things:
1) We have precedent of a non-Hex perk being turned into a Hex perk (No One Escapes Death), so it wouldn't be out there to do the reverse.
2) We have at least one Killer with a perk that does little unless you combine it with another Hex perk (Deathslinger with Hex: Retribution).
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I don't think Obsession perks were balanced around the idea of the strongest Survivor consistently being the Obsession.
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I don't think there's ever going to be anything that will make me a fan of RNG-based Kobes. As such, I cannot consider myself a fan of this idea.
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Why?
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Make it not a Hex perk. I'd be okay with increasing the cooldown to compensate. I just don't think it needs to both be a Hex perk and have a cooldown.
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@Patrick1088 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1778896#Comment_1778896
What does Dead man's Switch do? I'm fairly new and haven't heard of it.
It is an obsession perk that comes with the Deathslinger. When you hook your Obsession, Dead Man's Switch becomes active for I thiiiiink 45 seconds? While it's active, anyone who lets go of an unfinished gen for any reason will have that gen blocked until Dead Man's Switch activation period ends.
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@[Deleted User] said:
You're not on fault, but you shouldn't expect people to not get mad. That's the same case as lawyers that find branches in law to defend certain criminals.
Unless there's a way to use Irihead + Infantry Belt or DS + UB in such a way that it is liable to get the user in trouble with the devs, I wouldn't call that comparison particularly good.
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@Brittany371 said:
all survivors, even their alternate skins are 21+
the devs have stated this many times and its for legal reasons, all survivors (and killers) have to be the universal legal age which is 21 even the twins (yes victor too) will be 21+
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/06NAMQ9DCPUY/survivors-age.png
OBJECTION!
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I completely forgot about this until just now. My bad.
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Note that a number of people (also on both sides) also said that the bug heavily damaged Spirit's viability. :P
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I can understand why the base game isn't free. What I can't understand is why there aren't bundle versions of the game that include a good chunk of the Chapter DLC (particularly for PC). At this point, I believe multiple of the old non-licensed chapters should just be included for free with the base game.
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Static Field sucked. It was good at getting Survivors to Tier 1 Madness and that's it.
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Reverse Bear Trap timers automatically starting up once the Exit Gates are powered. I still resent the fact that that was taken away.
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@Moundshroud said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1776100#Comment_1776100
And playing against the Mori (or the Tombstone Piece) requires basic fundamentals and no deviation from them. There is no magic bullet against the Mori. It is countered by simple, good play. That's it.
I'm saying that I'm talking about which is better between Tombstone Piece and Ivory Mori.
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@Moundshroud said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1775853#Comment_1775853
I wish I could tell you if that "tell" about the open hand is true. I know I'm never looking at Myers long enough to know. But as to the advice I'm giving being basic... yeah... BASICS win games.
Sure, but this discussion isn't really about whether basics win the game (since it is naturally agreeable that good fundamentals are important to doing well). We're talking about playing vs. a Mori (Ivory mori specifically) vs. playing against a Tombstone add-on (specifically Tombstone piece).
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@MadLordJack said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1775853#Comment_1775853
I guess the point I'm trying to make is that competent players are not a good barometer against a killer that practically loses by default.
Ehhhh, when we're talking about Tombstone Piece and how it stacks up to Ivory Mori specifically, I think it is.
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@Moundshroud said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1775822#Comment_1775822
Myers has a tell when he is in Tier-3. His knife is changed to a high position like he is going to stab downward. They did this specifically to remind people that THIS Myers will Insta-Down you at a minimum. I think it was a good change.
Killers will always take bait, even when they know better. A good bait, is a good bait. But remember, Survivors are part of a 4-Person team. Nothing prevents Survivors from making shoulder rescues with flashlights, pallets, or even sabotaging hooks. They can get in the way and take protection hits to allow the downed person to struggle out and avoid that first hook. I've even had clever, crouching Survivors get in close with me where I couldn't see them to try and trick me into thinking I was getting the "can't hook bug" because they were blocking me and I didn't know they were there.
Once a person has been on the hook, the other Survivors should make SAFE rescues, and that person should stay at the periphery and work Generators as far from the Killer as possible. It is commonsense stuff. And if you see the Killer chasing someone you know has been hooked (and you haven't) why not get yourself into the chase and get the Killer to peel off? I've done this a LOT. When I do get to play with my friends, I'm the better looper of our group. That is kind of sad because I'm garbage. Be that as it may, I've run interference and gotten the Killer to go after me instead. I might get away, or I might get MY first hook, but the point is I prevented the Mori and my teammates are still in numbers to keep working those Generators. Hell, they might even get to milk my Hook time if we have a camper.
The very existence of Bully Squads (as much as I dislike them) proves that you can engage a Killer with coordination even on the offensive.
Yeah, I'm very aware of the knife pointing thing. I'm saying that I THINK (I will admit that I'm not 100% on this) he also has a tell in Tier 3 if he also has Tombstone Piece/Judith's Tombstone.
Killers will always take bait, even when they know better. A good bait, is a good bait.
Ehhhh, I don't really see it that way. If everyone is hawking around the Killer shack because someone is in a basement hook, and I see someone trying to conspicuously lead me away, I'm going to take a few steps away and then double back. What you're describing is just typical Survivor gameplay that can and should be played around in general. Even the crouch thing, if I notice that pressing the hook button somehow did nothing, the first thing I will do is look down to see if someone is trying to be cute.
Once a person has been on the hook, the other Survivors should make SAFE rescues, and that person should stay at the periphery and work Generators as far from the Killer as possible.
Again, this is kinda just general tips to play the game decently (again, barring Borrowed Time). The thing that the Ivory Mori does is shortcut by a lot the amount of work that the Killer needs to put in to knock someone out and gain momentum. You say "why not get the Killer to go after you and get them off the Survivor who has already been hooked?" I say "why bother changing targets when the one I am going after is going to net me an incredible amount of momentum because they are primed to be Mori'd?" Unless the one you are initially chasing is super good at being chased to the point where it becomes a liability to chase them too much (which ALSO is lessened in penalty if you have the Mori to make that whole chase effectively count for two chases AND two walks to hooks), you don't really have good reason to switch courses beyond "I don't want to tunnel people too hard because I'm just playing for funsies".
@MadLordJack said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1775822#Comment_1775822
Normally I play to have fun and outsmart the killer and get better and all that. Playing safe is a miserable experience for everyone involved, which is why I like to play killers that punish that (such as Blight).
Sorry, when I said "different from how you play normally," I was referring to how it's different from how one should ideally play against a Killer, not how that difference from your own personal play patterns. I'm asking how playing super safe against a Mori player is any different from playing super safe against a non-Mori player. As a follow-up, how is that any different from playing super safe against Myers?
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@Moundshroud said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1775780#Comment_1775780
Well, I think MadLordJack is talking about playing it safe as a team (but I could be wrong). Consider this, if you are part of a well-oiled machine, you might be willing to take your time on the Hook just to make the safe rescue, and/or lure the Killer away from your team while they work some Generators. If you have faith in your teammates, you are willing to trade Hooks or get on one. If there is a Mori in play, i.e. a Secret Offering, you don't even want a single hook if you can avoid it. You aren't going to be thrilled to be the looping bait. You won't commit to Generators and will move off the second Spine Chill lights up. You can play safe against a Mori, which amounts to SERIOUS caution.
With Myers, you have no way of knowing. I kind of think that is part of the fun. You never know WHICH Myers has come to the party. Is it Spooky Myers who can see you through walls, but is slow? Is it Maniac Myers who can tier up to Insta-Down you and/or just delete you right then and there without so much as a single Hook?
Here's the problem: If the Killer has a mori, what incentive do they have to take any sort of bait? All they need to do is take out a single person with the Ivory mori, and the momentum shifts in their favor considerably. The Killer has no problem with taking the one-for-one trade because that's still going to slow things down for the other side, and you can only willingly do that so many times before you run out of people who haven't been hooked yet and have to face the inevitability of someone being knocked out early.
Also, I'm not exactly sure I can verify this, but I have heard that Myers has a tell with regards to whether he has one of the tombstone add-ons or not. I think if his free hand is open-handed while he is in Tier 3, he has an insta-kill primed. Also, if Myers is taking a noticeably long time to reach tier 3, you know that he has either a Tombstone add-on or Fragrant Tuft, both of which you wanna REALLY go out of your way to avoid letting him reach too quickly.
@MadLordJack said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1775780#Comment_1775780
Do you not know what playing safe is? It's when you don't take risks at loops and drop pallets relatively quickly, after maybe a loop or two. The killer cannot hit you and cannot play the pallet unless it's a Badham-style junk tile, and eating all the pallets on the map doesn't matter if their teammates are just doing gens and also play like that.
How is that any different from just how you play normally? What makes that a better strategy against a mori specifically? The Killer doesn't need to play any differently until they get their first hook.
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@MadLordJack said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1775751#Comment_1775751
Against competent players, they'll see a hidden killer offering and play safe, invalidating any additional speed you might have in the stalk-vs-chase department.
And also, there is such a thing as stalk speed add-ons.
I mean, how safe can you play against a Mori offering, really? There's really nothing you can do about it. Against a stalking offering, you can still outplay Myers the way you normally would, only it would be more effective because of the increased stalk requirement. Sure, you can offset that with the increased stalk speed add-ons, but I don't think against competent players, that would end up being more effective in terms of momentum than booting out a single survivor with an Ivory mori.
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@MadLordJack said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1775739#Comment_1775739
It is easier and quicker to use than an Ivory Mori and leaves you, at worst, as a 16m TR M1 killer at 3-4 gens, assuming you have literally no other add-ons or perks and refuse to ever use your power again.
I don't think I'd agree with that. With an Ivory Mori, it basically just takes a single chase to set someone up to be knocked out of the game, assuming no Borrowed Time. Down, hook, and as soon as they are unhooked, tunnel them down (which you can easily do if you hang by the hook and if there's no Borrowed Time) and knock out of the game. With Myers, you need to stalk your way up to Tier 3, which is going to be more difficult than it would normally be as a result of the add-on increasing the amount of stalk you need. Against less competent players, you could make such a case, but against good players (which I think is what is more important), it could realistically be a challenge to make your way to Tier 3 in a timely manner.
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It's an add-on that allows you to insta-kill another Survivor (which is nicknamed a "mori" because of the Memento Mori offerings). I wouldn't consider it on the level of Ivory/Ebony Mori, as Tombstone Piece requires you to put in additional work in order to activate the Mori condition, whereas Ivory/Ebony Mori just give you free outs to kill Survivors without any additional work required. Whether the work needed to get the Tombstone's insta-kill is balanced is a different discussion.
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Idk if she is generally considered low tier, but I consider Pig low tier, so I'm counting it. I main Pig because I am a sucker for alt wincons (in this case, the fact that she can kill Survivors with Reverse Bear Traps).
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@Moundshroud said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1775637#Comment_1775637
Fair enough; we can agree to disagree. For the record, the Ebony Memento Mori fix I suggested in Feedback was as follows:
4 Hooks = 1 Unlocked Mori
5 Hooks = 2 Unlocked Mori
6 Hooks = 3 Unlocked Mori
7 Hooks = 4 Unlocked Mori
*Said Mori can be used on anyone, whether they have been previously hooked or not. This method ensures that an Ebony Memento Mori requires at least (3) more Hooks than currently (to Mori everyone), and encourages Survivors to take protection hits, try to pick up the killer from a chase going badly, do flashlight stuns (or any kind of stun) to prevent hooks before they happen, and work more as a team since their own overall survival is tied to there being fewer hooks. It also takes away some of the impetus to Tunnel as immediately going after the same person doesn't give an instant Mori at the start of the game. The Hex: Devour Hope requires one more Hook, but it also provides other benefits as well as being a Hex that people can destroy so this runs in line with being balanced against that.
*I don't think the Yellow or the Green Mori need any changes to be honest.
As for the Keys, the only change I would do is have it so only one person can get out the hatch per Key, and leave everything else the same.
I support all Moris offerings (except for Yellow) being nerfed into the ground. Keys I'm not sure what to do with for sure, but I support a pretty beefy nerf to their interactions with the Hatch too.
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@Moundshroud said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1775556#Comment_1775556
Everyone has an opinion. Only a select minority choose to inflict it upon us. And every time one of these threads comes up, there is a long procession of people who want them removed, fixed, or left alone (i.e. they are fine). All I'm saying is you would be doing yourself a favor by tempering your expectations. Me, I don't have any. I make the odd suggestion here and there, but I just come to play the game. If they change it I will adapt to the changes and be fine with those too. Do you see where I'm going with this?
I just think if even 10% of the energy some people use to complain about the game was used playing the game, they would probably get good enough that they don't care about keys, the Mori, and/or tons of other things. This game will NEVER be balanced; by its very design it is in constant flux with way too many variables to consider. Keys and the Mori aren't even close to being as important as some other things the DEV work on (and/or need to be working on).
Do I get a twinge of irritation when a Survivor (or a couple) use a Key and escape my clutches when I had them all beat? Sure. It would be strange if I didn't. Do I wince when the Mori hits me? Sure. Do either of these things happen all that often? No. In the last two weeks I've been killed by a Mori only once, and I play a lot of games. I've died on the Hook with nobody bothering to make an attempt perhaps 20+ times. This is because SWF don't care about Solos thrown in with their team. :) Which problem do you think bothers me more? Likewise, we have people suiciding on the Hook immediately to find another match and ruining good games for the other Survivors for no reason whatsoever, even when people were coming to get them. I see that at least one in three games.
What I'm pointing out (or trying to do) is that DbD has all sorts of issues, and some are far more disruptive and problematic than having the Killer give you an animated, early death, or someone coward bailing on everyone else with a Key.
I believe Keys and Moris are among the most problematic balance issues. As does a majority of people who have vocalized any sort of opinion on this issue.
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@Moundshroud said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1775544#Comment_1775544
Nothing is generally agreed upon, no. It is generally agreed upon by the people who spend all their time complaining here in posts (and even then there are just as many people who will answer that they are fine). Most people just play the game and deal with both Keys and/or the Mori without commenting or complaining at all. I wouldn't set your expectations too high on what changes they do. When they say they will tweak them it could be next month, or it could be years from now. And what they change is never enough. Someone else always complains. It isn't worth worrying about.
Of the people who actively have an opinion on this, yes, it is pretty generally agreed upon. You will find way more people who believe that one or both need to be changed than people who people that they are okay.
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As far as I'm aware, showing the last Survivor mercy is fine as long as you guys didn't work together to sandbag everyone else first.
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@Moundshroud said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1775464#Comment_1775464
We will have to agree to disagree. I just don't think they are that bad; there are certainly more pressing things I'd rather the DEV work on than Keys and the Mori. If they change them, great, but making them sound like a game breaking issue is just hyperbole. They are fine. I've had them used against me, and it wasn't a big deal. I suspect, if they do anything else to them, they will just make it so the Key only works for the person carrying it. But that is just a guess.
As far as game balance, I'm pretty sure it is generally agreed upon that keys and/or moris are probably the number one thing that needs to be nerfed.
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@Moundshroud said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1775260#Comment_1775260
Really? Weird. Two months ago I remember seeing the damn Hatch near the start of every game and I would just make note of it. I would swear we didn't have that many Generators done. But my memory could be playing me false. Either way, I don't see a problem with Keys as they stand right now. I don't see there being anything to fix.
The last changes to the Hatch was with the Plague's midchapter update (which allowed the Hatch to always spawn with 1 player left, gave Killers the ability to close the Hatch, and disabled the Killer's ability to perform Hatch grabs), which was WAAAAY longer than two months ago.
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@Aven_Fallen said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1775252#Comment_1775252
No, not at all. Hatch always needed a number of Gens to be completed, depending on the number of Survivors left in the Trial.
4 Survivors = 5 Gens
3 Survivors = 4 Gens
2 Survivors = 3 Gens
1 Survivor = anytime
I believe prior to the EGC update, you needed at least two Gens finished if there was only one Survivor left.
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@Moundshroud said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/208652/keys-and-moris-will-be-changed
Keys already have been changed in that the Hatch doesn't become visible (and thus accessible) until a certain number of Generators are up compared to Survivors. That was all Keys needed. I'm sure the Mori rework will likewise be tied to something numerical, probably a number of Hooks, not unlike the Hex: Devour Hope.
Isn't that just how the Hatch has always worked? The only change to Hatch spawning that I am aware of is that it now always spawns whenever there is one player left instead of only if at least two gens have been finished.
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@Iris_Firefly said:
I love the Halloween events every year, as it's my favorite holiday. I'd even be willing to sacrifice a chapter to make annual events better.
Put me in the opposite camp. I have no problem with events being half-assed in exchange for higher-quality chapters.
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I say this every time: Give Diversion a normal cooldown. None of this "you gotta stay within the Killer's TR but not be in a chase" garbage.
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@Pior_Morte said:
PLZ EDIT THAT TITLE
DS = Decisive Strike
people will be mad at you, just put Dearstalker
Eez joke. The misleading title was likely intention.
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@Crewszpoo said:
U shouldnt of cheated to win hiding is not bannable because the killer still has an option or way to win its called look for em and kill em its only bannable if the surv is leaving the killer no way to win
Hiding can be bannable if all the Survivors are hiding for extended periods of time and no one is doing gens. Has been confirmed by mods/devs many times already.
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@JoeyBob said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1772783#Comment_1772783
Killer is way stronger than survivors. Why do you think they're removing BL?
Y'all getting baited pretty hard:
@JoeyBob said:
Don't play killer, not worth it. Best to main survivor imo. They're the power role and are much funner to play because of it.
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I don't believe changing things purely for the sake of shaking up the meta is a good idea.
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@QwQw said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1772250#Comment_1772250
How would you do so?
Mori is easy. I would remove the Mori offerings as they currently exist. Yellow bloodpoint offerings (minus Pudding and Hollow Shell) would let you mori one player who has been hooked two times, and green bloodpoint offerings (minus Bloody Party Streamers) would let you mori any player who has been hooked two times. Cypress Mori would be basekit.
Key is admittedly more difficult, and I'm not sure I've thought of something I am totally satisfied with yet.
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Keys and moris. Nerf them.
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@Felnex said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1771249#Comment_1771249
that question is based on an assumption
I believe it is more than a reasonable assumption. We've already seen the changes that the devs have lined up, we know what changes they are aiming to have ready in time for the live release, and we know what changes they are aiming to have pushed out as soon as possible. If they weren't aiming to push the last few parts out in a timely manner, they wouldn't be announcing any changes beyond the ones that they have lined up for the live release and would just push out a generic "we'll see how the Killer fares post-release and re-visit this in the future."
So I ask again: What difference does it make?
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@Felnex said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1768793#Comment_1768793
you literally did: "What difference does it make if the balance changes are going to come through presumably soon after anyways?"
I am asking what difference it makes if the balance changes happen shortly after the live release. It is not a rhetorical question.
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The purple tombstone add-on is actually strong. The red one is terrible because it slows Michael down and takes even longer to charge up than the purple one.
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I would say that in the first scenario, you are straight-up teaming with another Survivor to dunk on other players, which is against the rules.o
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@MeltingPenguins said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1770446#Comment_1770446
Many maps (or at least newer/new-ish ones) are build around the killer they came with. I think it started around Michael/Hag.
By checking if killers fare generally better on maps tailored to them or not it could make it easier to see how to better rework maps. What to add, what to remove entirely, where to put breakable walls (if any) and totem spawns.
They are apparently doing something similar already (with certain maps having a much higher chance to be picked), and I'd say this could provide additional helpful data
How would it give them better info on how to rework maps? Such an experiment would only give devs information on how one Killer fares in a very specific map. How would a dev know how to adjust loops and whatnot in The Game, for example, if they only have information from how the Pig plays there? That seems like it is actively limiting the information the devs are getting on map balance for no actual benefit.
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@Onyx_Blue said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1768257#Comment_1768257
Does that mean you think PGTW can stay the say it is?
Yep.
@[Deleted User] said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1768257#Comment_1768257
Well, if you think about it, most matches you already won't be able to use Pop well much more than four times. This version of the perk makes it more flexible, because rather than possibly missing your window to land a pop you get to save that token to use whenever the moment is right. You'd be able to Pop the same gen multiple times without even hooking someone in between too, which is awesome. Encouraging killers to spread out hooks is a good thing for game health too, regardless of the fact that tunneling is sometimes the best play.
Interestingly enough, I actually wouldn't want this perk to be changed in this way because I think it would be extremely annoying to play against in a three-gen situation. Like, imagine killers like Trapper, Doctor, or Hag using a three-gen strat with this. They could save all of their tokens for defending their three gen, meaning they'd have four Pops to use at will on their three gen, and even normal kicks could seriously hinder survivors trying to finish those gens.
I believe it is more than possible to use Pop more than four times in most matches. Not every time, but enough to make the perk one of the best Killer perks in the game. I also don't mind having to hook people in between Pops in order to hit the same gen multiple times. I would rather have the ceiling be as high as it currently is rather than it being capped and have a mediocre alternate effect tagged on.
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Balloon and Stone Cold Beer Can slap I like. Rolling the bottle is interesting, though I imagine it would only explode after hitting something since it's not exactly a grenade on a timer. Huffing the gas for a speed boost I worry about in conjunction with a Survivor speed debuff.
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This sounds extremely arbitrary to me. Like, what is the goal here beyond curiosity's sake?
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Yeah, a Freddy-level rework is not something I would expect them to do without at least strongly considering the alternatives first. That to me is basically the nuclear option. I expect Clown's rework to fall in line more with Doctor or Leatherface.
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I try my best to make Reverse Bear Trap kills happen. If I suspect someone's timer is low, I will drag them across the map and let them try to make it back to where they were searching.