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At least she doesn't look like the drugs are JUUUUUST starting to kick in anymore.
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YOU ARE IN VIOLATION OF THE ANTI-BOOP-SNOOT ACT OF 1847. CEASE ALL ATTEMPTS TO BOOP THE SNOOT. YOU HAVE TWENTY SECONDS TO COMPLY.
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@Alice_pbg said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2258896#Comment_2258896
you arbitrarily decided it's detrimental. I don't think it is.
less gens means a smaller area. 3 gen or not. just basic math.
the stall is the same. the are efficient for the exact same amount of time aswell. I rather them be less efficient when there's fewer gens than after.
you randomly decided it is. it isn't detrimental.
"you arbitrarily decided it's detrimental."
I don't see how it's arbitrary. I explained my position and why I feel the way I do. I don't think I'm saying "it is because it is." Later stall being bad for stalling is kinda just logical IMO because the longer you take to make them less efficient, the more time they have to BE efficient and the less extra work they will have to put in to make up the difference once they actually start losing that efficiency due to RBTs.
"less gens means a smaller area. 3 gen or not. just basic math."
Unless I am misunderstanding you, this is just wrong. If there are only three gens left on the map, and they are all as far from each other as the game would allow, your area of searching has not gotten smaller. At best, you are simply making fewer stops on your patrol route. You are still covering a large distance.
"the stall is the same. the are efficient for the exact same amount of time aswell. I rather them be less efficient when there's fewer gens than after."
This doesn't line up with the general perception of the game, as far as I can tell. One of the general complaints I see is that there is an issue with the early parts of the game because the gens go by too quickly during that time. Delaying the stall benefit does not help with that problem at all. If you feel differently, fine, but I do not agree at all.
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@Alice_pbg said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2257357#Comment_2257357
RSN2 means they are more or less forced into only trying to remove the trap after it activates. there's no choice.
doesn't matter where the delay goes as long as there's still 1 gen left to be done. you get the same amount of extra time. but you only need to patrol a smaller area if there's less gens.
will you eventually stop saying the same thing in a different way? the stall is there for the same amount of time, they are not more or less likely to finish any amount of gens...
I am aware that there is basically no choice. I don't disagree with that. That still means that they are forced into doing the thing that is detrimental to the stalling.
What you say about patrolling a smaller area is not necessarily true, as it depends on where the gens are located. If you three-gen, yes you have a smaller area. If the gens are way spread out, you still have to spend lots of time patrolling a larger area. And with fewer gens to be done, the Survivors will have an easier time finishing whatever is left. That is why you want the stall to happen sooner and not later. The longer you take to get that stall going, the longer you are allowing them to operate more efficiently, which means they are getting gens done faster.
I will not stop saying that because I still believe it to be true. Having the stall kick in later is detrimental to the Pig if she is trying to stall because the Survivors are able to get things done more quickly when they are NOT being stalled.
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@Alice_pbg said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2256913#Comment_2256913
at the start of the trial, your traps get assigned a random letter (if we go by your A,B,C,D format). so each trap has a box that contains the key to remove the trap before you even put it on someone.
the box itself is random, all keys could be in a single box, each could be in a separate box or anything in between.
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2256919#Comment_2256919
and RSN2 is the only way to control when it happens. without it you are just counting on whatever the survivor decides.
you can say "If the stalling happens later than usual consistently because the Survivors are always doing the gens before the boxes, it might not do enough to allow the Pig to snowball the game into a win" if you want. but you are just guessing this. from my experience they do great. specially since, a third of the time, the trap is activated while the survivor is on the hook anyway. meaning base trap and RSN2 trap did exactly the same.
they don't have a higher chance of finishing gens, the chances are exactly the same. the only difference is the person with the trap.
they can either help after taking the trap off. meaning they help when there's less gens, when the number of survivors on gens matter most.
Or they help right away and stop to take the traps off. meaning the help when there's more gens to patrol.
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2256931#Comment_2256931
yeah. that.
RSN2 makes the Survivor very likely to pick the choice that makes the stalling less effective.
My comment about the stalling vs. snowballing is me trying to look at it logically. The longer it takes for you to get that stalling going, the more time you are giving the Survivors to operate without having lost a person temporarily to the Jigsaw Boxes, meaning a larger percentage of their objective will be completed. Also, if the gen pops before the Trapped Survivor is taken off the hook, then RSN2 makes no difference in that case. The problem is when the Survivor is taken off the hook BEFORE their Timer starts because you are almost assuredly forcing them to do the gens first, which delays the stalling potential.
They do have a higher chance of finishing gens because you forced them to do gens first, which meant the gen was popped faster than if they had taken an opportunity to do boxes right then and there. If your goal is to try and force an RBT kill, RSN2 is okay-ish at that. If your goal is to stall the gen progression, you don't WANT them to immediately hop on a gen instead of doing boxes ASAP, and in that regard RSN2 is bad because it essentiallg forces them to hop on gens immediately. You want them to have the opportunity to make the wrong choice. You don't want them to be forced to make the correct choice.
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@Alice_pbg said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2256505#Comment_2256505
The stall is just as effective. From the simple perspective of, they literally have to do the same things to get it off.
Plus it has a higher chance of someone actually dieing to it. Which will always be the strongest way to stall a game by sheer math.
Also, since they are in gens until it activates, you don't need to change your patrol route
Yes, they have to do the same thing, but WHEN they do the same thing matters as well. It can result in the team taking more or less time to finish the gen. If the stalling happens later than usual consistently because the Survivors are always doing the gens before the boxes, it might not do enough to allow the Pig to snowball the game into a win.
It doesn't matter if one person has a higher chance to die to it if the rest of the Survivors have a higher chance of finishing the gens. And that's assuming the person actually DIES to the Trap. If they don't (odds are in their favor, after all), then you just delayed the benefit of the stall for no upside.
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He looks...different IMO. Not better or worse. Just different.
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@BioX said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2255871#Comment_2255871
Im sorry but I cant take this answer seriously as you suddenly speak like some all knowing being, you dont know about any of this.
Its also pretty contradictory "they will ignore the secondary objective" sooo you are saying they dont care about bp then, "if survivors get more bp then queues would significantly increase" soooo they DO care about bp.....
Personally speaking, I care about winning. I ain't doing optional objectives that are just naturally baked into the game.
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@Alice_pbg said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2256316#Comment_2256316
That's the thing, it's not a flaw.
It is a flaw IMO because it means the stall is less effective because there are less gens that need to be done by the time the stall kicks in, making the stall hurt Survivors less.
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@Alice_pbg said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2256012#Comment_2256012
Or... the person with the rbt just does the gen anyway... because people do that sometimes.
If people were this efficient, you weren't gonna win anyway. Because by the time you got your down, 2 gens pop. And now you have 4 people alive and they only need to do 1 gen. And since they are very efficient, they obviously didn't 3 gen and are gonna spread out to finish the gens.
And since you're pig, you cannot pressure all of them and already lost.
Yes, people do that sometimes, and that is a notable flaw with the RBTs in my opinion. What I am saying is that RSN2 effectively forces that flaw to happen.
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From my understanding, that is correct. The demo's portal doesn't trigger based on how you move on/through it. It only reveals Survivors (through Killer Instinct) after it has been used at least once, and only when Survivors are near it while Demogorgon is charging his Shred attack.
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Currently, the only thing Mori offerings do is prevent the Survivor in question from breaking free, be it from a pallet drop, a flashlight, or Decisive Strike. That is not nothing, but that is not that far off from nothing either.
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@NMCKE said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2254650#Comment_2254650
But then they risk you running Tampered Timer, Crate of Gears, or Jigsaw Sketch. If they finish the last generator, just open the gates and any remaining survivors will be put under the pressure of two timers. This will usually result in them dying because the RBT kept them from leaving.
This is why we need more RBT lethality add-ons, but we can't if it still punishes survivors who weren't greedy and actually tried to remove the trap. That's why I been a strong advocate to adding a passive timer, then adding more lethal RBT add-ons to punish greedy survivors.
If the Pig has RSN2 in play, the Survivor in question is going to be at the mercy of Timer/Crate/Sketch anyways unless they luck into a Jigsaw Box coincidentally before the timer starts ticking. Not to mention that at that point, the Pig can just tunnel the Survivor anyways to almost assure death once she opens the Gate herself to force the EGC.
I really do wish the devs were open to looking at the Pig (every time, the response is always "our records indicate Pig is in a good spot") so they could try ideas like yours to see what works and what doesn't.
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@Alice_pbg said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2254812#Comment_2254812
the amount of traps you use depends on the person. there isn't an obvious answer.
but this doesn really matter. however many traps you wanna use, the effect will be the same with regular traps and RSN2 traps. the only difference being the pressure when removing the traps
Lemme put it to you like this:
If the Survivors have only three gens left, and one person gets an RBT slapped on and starts going for boxes, you can chase one of the other three people and have a reasonably safe bet that all the gens won't finish while you are in that chase (unless the Trapped Survivor gets their trap off quickly) because the Survivors need three people to finish three gens
If you have RSN2 active, the Trapped person won't start looking for boxes until that third gen is done, and while you are busy chasing someone else, the Exit Gates are at risk of being powered up because there are still enough people to do the remaining gens while the Pig is busy chasing someone.
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@Alice_pbg said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2254442#Comment_2254442
either the stall is now, or after the next gen gets finished... either way, stall
Stall later is bad because the Survivors have actually accomplished part of their goal and now lose out less on temporarily being down a Survivor.
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@PigMainBigBrain said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2254422#Comment_2254422
They still have to stall no matter what. If they don't stall and take off the traps they die....periodt.
It delays the stall; it doesn't remove it altogether. The thing is that with RSN2, it significantly raises the chances that by the time they start looking for boxes, the team as a whole will be one step closer to powering the Exit Gates.
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@Alice_pbg said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2253992#Comment_2253992
they still have to make the trip to disarm the traps. what RSN2 does is make it so they are under a lot more pressure.
this "the slowdown doesn't exist on RSN2" is just silly...
What RSN2 does, from my personal POV, is delay the stall potential you get. If the Survivor has no idea where any boxes are because the auras are gone, then ideally they'd just do a gen, which means you aren't getting any slowdown from that Trap until the gen pops. Fine if you are actively shooting for a Trap kill; less fine if you actually need that stalling.
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@AlexoBlue said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2252981#Comment_2252981
From what I saw, it only works from your angle, your teammates or killer won't saw the modded skin
You as the Killer could theoretically mod Survivors to be straight-up impossible to not see, no?
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The only issue I have with 99ing gates is that it renders Bloodwarden largely useless. Bloodwarden should be able to pocket its effect if you hook someone after the last gen is finished but before someone opens an Exit Gate. Other than that, I don't really mind 99ing gates.
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Legion already has one. Clown to a lesser extent as well.
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@NMCKE said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2248361#Comment_2248361
Kinda humorous that we're both always seen on pig threads... We just want our baby to be buffed! XD
Lol, yes. Say "Pig" times and you'll usually find at least one of us.
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She can do a lot of things, but she can't do any of it well IMO. Her stealth is slow, her ambush is too easily telegraphed, and her Traps can sometimes just do nothing for you if luck rolls the wrong way (though yes, sometimes they can also be quite an effective stall tool).
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@MadLordJack said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2248054#Comment_2248054
Surge, by itself with no cooldown but no ability to affect regressing gens, is still weaker than surge affecting all gens and not just ones that aren't regressing. You're not getting multiple downs within 40 seconds unless you're snowballing in one area, in which case it's still pointless because you're not moving and not hitting any gens that you haven't already, and because you already hit them they're not going to be affected a second time. And if you are snowballing in one area and the perk has the cooldown, at least one of the downs is going to activate it and it's going to hit all the gens again, even if it was still on cooldown at the start of the snowball.
The cooldown really isn't a problem, it's just there to make sure the ability to hit multiple regressing gens isn't abusable, and the fact that you can then also pair Surge in its current state with other perks makes it even better.
My experience with missing out on the cooldown by mere seconds on multiple occasions leads me to disagree with what you say.
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@MadLordJack said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2248006#Comment_2248006
Because that's boring and weak and you won't get any really good, fun use out of it even without the cooldown.
The cooldown gives you LESS out of it because you can only use it ONCE every forty seconds and get nothing out of it if you down someone with even one second less on the clock rather than being allowed to get multiple uses out of it by going around the map as quickly as possible.
@MadLordJack said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2248006#Comment_2248006
Okay, I should probably clarify so I'm not such a #########:
What you're saying, if I'm not mistaken, is for Surge to regress the closest non-regressing gen every time you down someone. That's... Not great. Right now it goes really well with every other regression perk, especially Ruin, because it effects all gens in your TR but has a cooldown. That cooldown isn't that bad, to be perfectly honest, I rarely even notice it because if I'm snowballing I don't really need the extra help.
If it has a cooldown and effects all worked-on gens, it has more perk synergy and potential for regression because it also synergises with itself. If it has no cooldown and only effects the closest non-regressing gen, it has less synergy and you won't even notice the lack of cooldown most of the time. It just won't be that good, basically, because it's low will still be low but it's high won't be nearly as high.
If you take the perk as-is but remove the cooldown, suddenly it gets really oppressive, but I think we both know that already because we've both basically said so.
I'm saying Surge shouldn't synergize with Ruin because that creates the "cooldown problem" in the first place. I've noticed a healthy number of times where Surge didn't go off because I was a few seconds too fast, and I had to go through all that effort all over again for not waiting.
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@MadLordJack said:
The basic attack requirement needs to go, but other than that the perk is fine as-is, the cooldown prevents it from being absolutely insane on killers like Spirit, Blight or Nurse. Showing the affected gens would be a nice QoL change but it wouldn't be a huge deal.
If you make it so Surge can't hit the same gen multiple times in quick succession (without it being tapped first), what exactly does the cooldown do to make it not crazy on certain Killers?
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Take away the basic attack requirement, take away the cooldown, and MAYBE if you are that scared of being able to hit the same gen too many times in quick succession, revert the change that allows Surge to affect gens that are already regressing.
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No. Perks are meant to synergize in some way. Otherwise, you just have a hodgepodge. If certain interactions end up being too strong/problematic, you find a way to fix that interaction. You don't just disallow that interaction altogether.
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Idk if this is a good idea or not; I just randomly thought of while reading about the experiences of camping Hags. I don't have any numbers filled in because I figured those details can be easily tweaked.
"Phantasm Traps within X meters of a Hooked Survivor will not trigger. This effect lingers for Y seconds after that Survivor is unhooked. Inert Phantasm Traps are highlighted to the Killer as a white aura."
Basically, a Hag can choose to put a mud trap within range of a hooked Survivor if she wants to for future use, but as long as a hooked Survivor is within range, it will remain inert and will not activate. They stay inert for a little while after the unhook to allow the Unhooked Survivor and their rescuer to run away (if they choose to stay and heal first, though, all bets are off). They are highlighted as a white aura so the Hag knows which mud traps are inaccessible while someone is hooked.
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@miketheratguy said:
How would everybody feel if her crouch, crouched walking speed, and trap countdown were faster? Leave her kit and perks alone but give a bit of a boost to what she's got?
I think I'd prefer a higher POV while crouched and a much delayed roar to any of what you mentioned.
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@Skyost_AB said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2246691#Comment_2246691
No, those are only active when he is in a chase, it's bad, but it's not what i'm referring to. He has a "lullaby", a mechanic that is more well known to the Huntress but that some other killers do have. Basically, you aren't completely surprising anyone as Trickster, they can hear music even if you have undetectable or monitor.
That is very good to know, since I do run M&A on him because I didn't know that.
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Is this referring to all the voice clips he has when he laughs and hums and stuff, or is it something else?
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Legion. You don't make a Killer that is an entire gang of Killers and then not incorporate that into the gameplay at all.
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Windows of Opportunity lets me see pallets and windows, not gens. I'm not always gonna know someone is already there.
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@GeneralV said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2243881#Comment_2243881
I fail to see how. Everything Wraith could do, Freddy could do better. Especially hit and run.
Freddy was worse at the chase than Wraith, who was already bad at the Chase. Freddy also could not move between gens as quickly as Wraith, and his Dream World was quickly undone, forcing him to go through the same process over and over.
@Phasmamain said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2243881#Comment_2243881
I will say with add ons wraith was much better but without Freddy was slightly better imo
I do not judge Killers by their basekit, personally.
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@Phasmamain said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2243792#Comment_2243792
Still doesn’t mean he had much gen pressure back then. Freddy didn’t need to patrol gens faster since he slowed down the repairing of them anyway through action speed and forcing failed skill checks
Yes, and Wraith was a bad Killer for it. Freddy was just worse.
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@Phasmamain said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2243786#Comment_2243786
At 126% move speed. This is the same as clown’s antidote
Yes, except Wraith doesn't only have four of them before he needs to reload.
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@Phasmamain said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2243776#Comment_2243776
Well yeah he did but so did wraith. Sure he had his big lunge but that could only get hits at short loops most killers like Freddy can already deal with anyway.
Plus Freddy was more stealthy when you were awake then wraith was when cloaked since he was completely invisible as opposed to wraith’s shimmer
The big lunge was better than anything Freddy had in a chase.
Also, stealth didn't really count for much for either Killer for different reasons.
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@GeneralV said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2243764#Comment_2243764
Not so sure about this one. Old Wraith had nothing against gens, unlike Freddy. Old Wraith required an add-on for aura reading, unlike Freddy.
Wraith had the basekit ability of going from gen to gen faster.
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@Phasmamain said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2243764#Comment_2243764
Wraith before assuming no addons was bad at even hit and run tactics since he couldn’t effectively juggle people with how slow he was.
Freddy didn’t have to hit you to get slowdown he just had to be close. Not to mention just powering through gens injured didn’t really work because of his dream state
He didn't have to hit you to slow down gens, true. He did have to hit you to actually not lose the game, however.
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@Phasmamain said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2243751#Comment_2243751
Ghostface doesn’t have a way to end chase either though. He’d probably be worse than wraith but that’s no insult to Freddy since wraith is very strong now
Ghostface can potentially end a chase before it goes on for a while.
Also, I should clarify. That makes him a bad OLD Wraith.
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@GeneralV said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2243737#Comment_2243737
Not every killer has to have one. Also, you were not supposed to chase with him that often. You had to know when to commit to chase, and only do so when you were ready.
Hit and run tactics while juggling the survivor between awake and asleep was a better approach.
That kinda just makes him a bad Wraith/Ghostface from my POV.
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"Old Freddy used to be...very strong within it which gave him his identity that he has now lost"
I remember Old Freddy having zero power in a chase.
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-The key to unlock a Reverse Bear Trap will never be in the first box searched
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Only if they get Adam Sandler to reprise the role.
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Personally, I stopped thinking Hexes were worth it a good while back. Like, probably before Ruin was re-worked.
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I'm not sure what else I can say. My post speaks for itself.
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@Liam282 said:
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/X5ODO9A4UAZ6/image.png
Give us the HD textures we paid for. Not this monstrosity.
From what I understand, this has already been fixes in the PTB.
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With all due respect, these Survivors were not very good.
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@MadLordJack said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2238324#Comment_2238324
Please, point out in extrutiating detail where I said anything about basekit Unbreakable. Oh, wait, you can't, because I was very clearly talking about the situations where toxic pricks leave all four survivors to bleed out on the ground, as shown by the statements "when certian conditions are met" and "there's no possible reason a killer can't hook anyone when everyone is down."
Please tell me since when has Unbreakable been so limited in use?
I don't hate this idea, tbh. If all Survivors are left on the ground for X period of time, the first Survivor to fill their recovery bar can get back up.
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Best solution IMO would be to give Survivors the ability to eject themselves from the game once their bleed-out meter has gone down enough.
