Why the Freddy rework is terrible (kinda long post)
Today I just kinda felt like having a discussion about Freddy since the devs have been kinda quiet about him since his recent nerf
THE GOOD
I do want to start by saying some good did come of this rework namely the dream projection. Not only does this fit freddy very well it works well in practise by giving Freddy map mobility that survivors can react to. One of freddy’s biggest issues before was he had info on survivors locations but couldn’t really use it effectively since he had to walk there normally. This fixes his map mobilty issue and rewards him for keeping survivors asleep. This should definitely stay
THE BAD
Strap in because this is going to be long.
Both of his new dream traps are uninspired and boring.
Dream snares are pretty much just a worse clown at this point. Freddy needs to have strong aspects when survivors are in the dream world which in the case of old Freddy was his info and slowdown. Right now if a survivor is in the dream world you might get pallets down faster and get occasional hit due to the slowdown but they aren’t versatile enough to actually make him a threat in chase like clown is.
Pallets despite requiring an add on slot are actually worse than snares. Once survivors realise which pallets are fake they will avoid that area and you’ll soon become old Freddy without slowdown or info. These aren’t worth your time unless you are memeing.
Sleep cycles while somewhat fitting to the film are unnecessary and shows the devs hypocrisy. Remember when the devs said they changed doctor’s static field because it gave free value? Freddy’s whole gimmick is tied to a free mechanic now. It’s frustrating for survivors since they have to constantly watch a timer and no matter how bad the Freddy is he will get value from the mechanic and it’s annoying for Freddy since it feels almost random when you’ll get to use your power in a chase and you can’t choose when to strategically keep survivors awake. To tie into this alarm clocks were an unnecessary addition to make sleep cycles somewhat work. They feel like an afterthought and are very map dependent since they’ll either be too strong (especially with the buff to them) or too weak due to map size.
His add ons didn’t fair well either. To keep the game delay part of him alive the devs decided to put gen slowdown on an add on. Problem was the number was ridiculously high and it made the infamous forever Freddy build possible. The effects were soon nerfed and have now been changed to be sound related which still makes no sense to me. The rest of his add ons are just forgettable and there’s a reason most Freddy’s just opt out of using them.
THE BIGGEST ISSUE
The dream world doesn’t feel scary anymore. If you were in the dream world against old Freddy you were hit with a crippling action speed penalty and your position was always being shown to Freddy outside of his terror radius. This caused a panic to get out by finding a teammate or failing a skill check which was key to how good Freddy’s played. Old Freddy used to be very weak outside of the dream world and very strong within it which gave him his identity that he has now lost
What’s your penalty for being in the dream world now? You are susceptible to his mediocre dream traps and he has a non directional terror radius. How many games have you played against new Freddy where you don’t wake up for the entire match? It barely feels any different fighting a Freddy in what should be his home turf.
CLOSING THOUGHTS
It’s no question that old Freddy was a weak killer. He didn’t really have a way to follow up on the info he was given and had no chase potential. But if I’m being honest what we have now is just a boring M1 killer who borrows mechanics from other killers. He has a toned down clown bottle, A demo teleport on a longer cooldown and a non directional TR like huntress. Old Freddy had such a unique playstyle and one we haven’t had a substitute for now that he’s gone. I’d rather have a unique but weak killer than a boring mix of other better killers
As for my opinion on what to do with him @GeneralV has a great rework idea which keeps the good parts of new Freddy and the general power of old Freddy and combines them
Also I’d love to hear from the people who want new Freddy to stay and hear your reasoning as to why. I personally can’t see a reason to keep him but I’d love to see some discussion about this
Edit: Here’s @GeneralV concept
Power: Dream Demon
Pull survivors into the Dream World
-Survivors who are awake do not see The Nightmare.
-Once targeted by The Nightmare’s power, survivors enter the Dream Transition for 7 seconds.
-The Nightmare’s Movement Speed Penalty for putting a survivor into the Dream Transition lasts for 1 second.
-During the Dream Transition Survivors can see The Nightmare intermittently and they suffer from the Incapacitated status effect.
-When the Dream Transition Lapse, the Survivor is pulled into the Dream World.
Once in the Dream World:
-Survivor’s auras are revealed to The Nightmare when they are outside of his terror radius.
-Survivors suffer an action speed penalty of 40%.
-To exit the Dream World, Survivors can find non-sleeping Survivors to perform a wake up action.
-Failed Generator Skill Checks can also wake up.
-Hooked Survivors wake up.
Special Ability: Dream Projection
-Teleport to a Generator in view. Releasing the button early will cancel the action.
-Survivors cannot interact with the targeted Generator.
-For each Survivor in the Dream World, the cool-down of using Dream Projection is reduced by stack-able 20%.
“You have nothing to worry about. This won’t hurt one… little… bit.” -Freddy Krueger
Comments
I completely agree. Old Freddy, despite not being the best, was unique and fun.
Nowadays we got Mr. Generic Anti-Looper. His modern power just feels lazy and uninspired, which is incredibly ironic as Freddy is known for being a creative slasher killer.
I think it's time for Behavior to admit that this rework was a failure in many aspects.
I really wish they did. Them adding and changing all these things to make new Freddy work when old Freddy worked fine is annoying to witness
Well written. I don't like the current Freddy, however I will say Dream Projection is fun as hell and I believe they can implement that to another Freddy rework that is more reminiscent to old Freddy, a much more interesting, creative, and unique killer.
Dream snares basically turned Freddy into generic anti-looping killer, and was a lazy concept. Place ######### on the floor, how original.
Snares are just a rehash of clown’s bottles but they forgot the fun part of using clown bottles. Strategically throwing bottles is infinitely more fun than just spamming snares at a loop
All Old Freddy needed was some small buffs and QoL improvements, not a full rework.
I can't believe I ever got excited about the rework. If it took place in current times, I'd have the foresight to see it's a terrible idea.
It was because nobody really spoke out about it. Common consensus was that Freddy was irredeemable and needed to be fully changed so the devs just did what the community wanted.
Sadly like many things people didn’t realise how bad of an idea it was
Well, I know some people such as GeneralV knew the rework would be a bad idea.
I think Clown was an incredible take of an anti-looping killer, and I love playing as him. Being able to spread the smoke out is so damn fun to mess around with. The difference between him and Freddy is that he actually takes a brain to play.
Exactly. It’s pretty clear to me they made Freddy to be the starter meta character in the sense that he has so much reward for so little effort.
It’s sad since playing old Freddy required a completely different mindset to any other killer. Strategically planning out when to pull survivors in and using your glimpses to mess them up at loops was really hard to pull off effectively
Well said, my friend. Well said.
As @QwQw said, the only thing Freddy required were a few QoL improvements, never a full rework. I completely agree with you and @glitchboi when it comes to Dream Projection, for that is a very interesting mechanic. Not to mention one of the buffs which Old Freddy required.
It warms my heart to see this love for my old main. It is about time we get our killer back.
Also, thanks for the compliment about my concept! I am happy to see that you liked it. If you want to add it to your post, here it is:
Power: Dream Demon
Pull survivors into the Dream World
-Survivors who are awake do not see The Nightmare.
-Once targeted by The Nightmare’s power, survivors enter the Dream Transition for 7 seconds.
-The Nightmare’s Movement Speed Penalty for putting a survivor into the Dream Transition lasts for 1 second.
-During the Dream Transition Survivors can see The Nightmare intermittently and they suffer from the Incapacitated status effect.
-When the Dream Transition Lapse, the Survivor is pulled into the Dream World.
Once in the Dream World:
-Survivor’s auras are revealed to The Nightmare when they are outside of his terror radius.
-Survivors suffer an action speed penalty of 40%.
-To exit the Dream World, Survivors can find non-sleeping Survivors to perform a wake up action.
-Failed Generator Skill Checks can also wake up.
-Hooked Survivors wake up.
Special Ability: Dream Projection
-Teleport to a Generator in view. Releasing the button early will cancel the action.
-Survivors cannot interact with the targeted Generator.
-For each Survivor in the Dream World, the cool-down of using Dream Projection is reduced by stack-able 20%.
“You have nothing to worry about. This won’t hurt one… little… bit.” -Freddy Krueger
I also have add-ons, if you would like to see it:
Wool Shirt:
-Slightly decreases Skill Check chances in the Dream World.
Sheep Block:
Slightly reduces Dream Transition time.
-Time to fall asleep is reduced by 0.5 seconds.
Kid’s Drawing:
Slightly increases Dream Demon range.
Garden Rake:
Slightly increases Movement speed while casting Dream Demon.
Prototype Claws:
Moderately increases Movement speed after successfully putting a Survivor into the Dream Transition.
Outdoor Rope:
While Survivors are in the Dream World:
Applies a moderate (-6%) Action Speed penalty to Repair, Healing, and Sabotage actions.
Nancy’s Sketch:
Moderately increases Dream Demon range
Green Dress:
Considerably decreases Skill Check chances in the Dream World.
Slightly decreases Dream Projection cool-down for each sleeping Survivor.
Cat Block:
Moderately reduces Dream Transition time.
-Time to fall asleep is reduced by 1 second.
Unicorn Block:
Considerably reduces Dream Transition time.
-Time to fall asleep is reduced by 1.5 seconds.
Swing Chains:
Survivors suffer from an increased Action Speed penalty of 60% after 30 seconds in the Dream World
Survivors only see glimpses of The Nightmare during the Dream Transition.
Nancy’s Masterpiece:
Tremendously increases Dream Demon range.
Jump Rope:
Tremendously decreases Survivors' Action speed when in the Dream World.
Blue Dress:
Moderately decreases Skill Check chances in the Dream World.
Moderately decreases Dream Projection cool-down for each sleeping Survivor.
“I had to keep you awake long enough so when you finally slept… you would never wake up again” -Freddy Krueger
Pill Bottle:
Survivors do not see The Nightmare during the Dream Transition.
Paint Thinner:
Tremendously increases Movement speed after successfully pulling a Survivor into the Dream Transition.
Class Photo:
-When a Survivor is pulled into the Dream Transition, all other Survivors' Auras are revealed to The Nightmare for the duration of the Dream Transition.
-Tremendously increases Dream Transition time.
Time to fall asleep is increased by 2 seconds.
“Z” Block:
Tremendously reduces Dream Transition time.
-Time to fall asleep reduced by 2 seconds.
Red Paint Brush:
-Tremendously decreases The Nightmare's Terror Radius.
-Tremendously reduces Dream Transition time.
Time to fall asleep is reduced by 2 seconds.
-Survivors suffer from a Hindered penalty during the Dream Transition
“Don’t be afraid. I can make it the way it was... Just the way you liked it” -Freddy Krueger
Black Box:
-Broken pallets are replaced by Dream Pallets
-Non-sleeping survivors cannot see or interact with Dream Pallets
“I can sleep… I just don’t want to” -Dean Russell
"Old Freddy used to be...very strong within it which gave him his identity that he has now lost"
I remember Old Freddy having zero power in a chase.
Not every killer has to have one. Also, you were not supposed to chase with him that often. You had to know when to commit to chase, and only do so when you were ready.
Hit and run tactics while juggling the survivor between awake and asleep was a better approach.
I like those add ons a lot! Swing chains might be a bit too strong though but otherwise they all seem great and worth running unlike his current set
Yes because he was more focused on the 1v4 as opposed to the 1v1. He made sure gens stayed at bay so he had enough time to down Survivors
That kinda just makes him a bad Wraith/Ghostface from my POV.
Ghostface doesn’t have a way to end chase either though. He’d probably be worse than wraith but that’s no insult to Freddy since wraith is very strong now
To each their own, my friend. If that is your opinion, it is alright.
Ghostface can potentially end a chase before it goes on for a while.
Also, I should clarify. That makes him a bad OLD Wraith.
Thank you, my friend! I am happy to see that you've liked it, I was trying to make them as useful as possible.
Swing Chains is a bit too strong, you say? Should its value be reduced?
Wraith before assuming no addons was bad at even hit and run tactics since he couldn’t effectively juggle people with how slow he was.
Freddy didn’t have to hit you to get slowdown he just had to be close. Not to mention just powering through gens injured didn’t really work because of his dream state
Not so sure about this one. Old Wraith had nothing against gens, unlike Freddy. Old Wraith required an add-on for aura reading, unlike Freddy.
He didn't have to hit you to slow down gens, true. He did have to hit you to actually not lose the game, however.
What I’d do is make it so that if you spend more than 30 seconds in the dream world the action penalty goes up from 40% to 60%.
This encourages waking up early and not trying to power through heals or gens while asleep
Very well. I will change it.
Well yeah he did but so did wraith. Sure he had his big lunge but that could only get hits at short loops most killers like Freddy can already deal with anyway.
Plus Freddy was more stealthy when you were awake then wraith was when cloaked since he was completely invisible as opposed to wraith’s shimmer
Wraith had the basekit ability of going from gen to gen faster.
The big lunge was better than anything Freddy had in a chase.
Also, stealth didn't really count for much for either Killer for different reasons.
At 126% move speed. This is the same as clown’s antidote
Yes, except Wraith doesn't only have four of them before he needs to reload.
Ah yes, mobility. That is why I've suggested an improved version with Old Freddy with Dream Projection. That would make him perfect.
Still doesn’t mean he had much gen pressure back then. Freddy didn’t need to patrol gens faster since he slowed down the repairing of them anyway through action speed and forcing failed skill checks
Indeed! Reasons why Thanatophobia and Overhcarge were very good on him!
Pretty much this. Old Freddy was the weakest killer in the game. He couldn't even basic attack unless you were asleep. Playing as or against him was a joke at best. It was easier to win against him than a console nurse...to the point it was a guaranteed free victory. Just my personal opinion...but I feel as though the only ones who actually want old Freddy back are survivor mains as he was incapable of hook camping....or having much pressure at the end of the game.
That being said....I say please everyone and get the license for Robert Englund's Freddy and instead of making him a cosmetic...make him another killer with old Freddy's power. Either that or make a new original killer with this power....and maybe a free one since all the work has already been done to make it. (Just rename the old add-ons.)
I would rather the opposite, to be honest. Robert Englund's Freddy can stay with the current power and Jackie's Freddy gets the old one. Not just because I like the remake, but because it actually makes more sense from a lore perspective.
In the original movies, it was not unusual for Freddy to do a few tricks with blood, not to mention that micro-sleep is a thing. While in the remake, it can be inferred that Freddy pulled Nancy and her mom into the Dream World.
I’ll definitely agree old Freddy was weak but what made him better than new Freddy imo is originality. New Freddy is just a bunch of toned down killer powers put together while old Freddy was a faithful recreation of the way 2010 Freddy was portrayed (whether you like that version of Freddy or not is a different discussion)
Precisely. And I don't think he was the weakest, to be honest. Even Otz said so.
Tbf at that time clown litter slowed himself down throwing bottles and didn’t have the antidote and had a 5 second reload so I’d say he was competing for worst.
Not to mention wraith and trapper
There was also Legion and Old Bubba.
I actually forgot about bubba yeah he was terrible to a point where his power was nearly unusable if the survivor just held W
Completely agree with this post Freddy is genuinely boring to play now and I miss old Freddy
I think most of us do honestly
we only realised after the rework what we lost
I miss the days of absolutely owning people with what was considered the "#########" killer and people getting salty
We all do, my friend. We all do.
Yeah, I was never supportive of the rework. I remember my first match with his new power, and everything felt wrong.
I don't really remember my first match as Modern Freddy, but I do remember my final match as Old Freddy.
It was on Suffocation Pit, I pulled out all the stops (mori, really good perks), and I destroyed the survivors. I think I had more fun in that one match than all my games as Modern Freddy combined.
A fitting end, I would say. Unfortunately, I don't remember my final match as him. I hope it was a good one.
My first match as modern Freddy was on Old Lery's, my favourite map by the way. Got 3 kills and 1 DC. A victory, but it didn't feel like one.
Yes, and Wraith was a bad Killer for it. Freddy was just worse.
I fail to see how. Everything Wraith could do, Freddy could do better. Especially hit and run.
I will say with add ons wraith was much better but without Freddy was slightly better imo
Yeah, Wraith with add-ons was better. Unless we consider Freddy on release with add-ons.