SteelDragon
SteelDragon
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@ScottJund said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/836725#Comment_836725
That is not at all how a game works. Do you know how rare it is to actually get a full 12 hook game. You can't just boil a game down to that. There are like 8 billion variables. What if I slug everyone? Everyone dies in one hook.
also you say "that is not at all how a game works" yet you provide evidence for your statements by doing KYF, 1v1 games. THOSE SCENERIOS NEVER happen in games either. so why use them as evidence? you contradict yourself
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@ScottJund said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/836725#Comment_836725
That is not at all how a game works. Do you know how rare it is to actually get a full 12 hook game. You can't just boil a game down to that. There are like 8 billion variables. What if I slug everyone? Everyone dies in one hook.
what if everyone gets up? unbreakable, god loops, insta down mechanics. etc etc etc. when you slug you run the risk to lose 1 of your 12 hook progress. that is a gamble. with the current balance of the game the survivors are in control of the game, not the killer
and you can boil the game down to that, because it is a 4v1 game where everyone 1 of the 4 has technically 3 lives.
1 hook stage = 8.33% repeating progress to win the game as the killer
1 gen = 20% progress towards escaping, yes there is powering up the exits but that time is nothing compared to a single gen
5 gens with no ruin, no great skill checks, no toolboxes, and 2 people working on a gen is. 400 seconds
now divide that 400 seconds by 3 people working and 1 person distracting the killer
133.33 repeating, seconds until the survivors have finished the objective, now that divided by the 12 hooks to kill them all and that means, you need a average down speed of
11.11 repeating, seconds per down, that includes picking them up and hooking them.
now all this is not counting factors of how a game will go of people doing 1 gen together, toolboxes, bad teammates. etc THIS IS JUST RAW NUMBERS, not actual gameplay data. but even a 30second chase is good enough for a good, optimal 4 man squad
so like in your last video how you said "you cant just go around throwing down every pallet and win" you can, if you just follow 1 survivor and they throw down every pallet and you just break the pallets back to back, you will lose the game 100%
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@ScottJund said:
it genuinely blows my mind the ego of some people that assume people that are vastly better than them at the game STILL haven't figured out how to "adapt to" Spirit.
it blows me mind that some people refuse to believe spirit is counterable with the many videos showing it is. but it is understandable because they refuse to think "I shouldn't be able to 1v1 this killer" it is a 4v1 game, you shouldn't be able to 1v1 any killer. yes the weaker killers you can. spirit you cant because she is VIABLE and balanced. so that means YOU WILL EVENTUALLY DOWN vs her.
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because KYF does nothing, proves nothing. there is no pressure from gens, the process of
step 1 find survivor
step 2 down survivor
step 3 pick up survivor
step 4 hook survivor
step 5 REPEAT
you must repeat this 12 times before the survivors do all 5 gens and escape. just say.. a 40 second step 2 chase for the spirit to down a survivor is ALOT OF TIME for a optimal team. because then you add the time to pick up the survivor and hook them then go to gens/look for another survivor. BTW scott, a lot of your "points" about tru3's video that you analyzed was proven false in his reply to your critique. I would like to see your reply and so would alot of other people
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@[Deleted User] said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/833943#Comment_833943
There's no "might". People don't try to loop her like an M1 killer.
I've yet to see a single person who's done a live commentary explaining what they're doing, why they're doing it and how. None of this post commentary crap.
I try to do the stuff the dozens of people preach counter her on here. They simply don't work. I don't see her hair animation reset, or crystals glowing, and other stuff like that.
you obviously have not watch Tru3 talent, he does that, explaining how to waste the killers time well. because since the spirit IS A GOOD BALANCED KILLER, you will down EVENTUALLY which is WHAT IS SUPPOSED TO HAPPEN IN A 4V1 GAME. and you got 3 down before you die. but if you would watch Tru3's MANY vids on spirit recently and how to outplay her you would learn a lot. and yes people do try to loop spirit like a M1 killer a lot. that is why a lot of people fail
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@[Deleted User] said:
The fact that Spirit averages so many kills than normal across the board should be an indication that something is wrong with the killer -- not that there's a problem with the entire population of the game.
If it was the latter, every killer would have a much higher kill ratio.
it might be because they try to loop spirit like a M1 killer, when she is in fact a M2 killer, then they die because of it. since most of the roster is M1 killers this is understandable
it is like this, for M1 killers, the regular looping for survivors is like the survivors bringing a knife to a knife fight
but when they go against a M2 killer, they are bringing that same knife to a GUN fight.
it is the survivors fault for refusing to learn then whine about it on the forums, simple as that. why should spirit be nerfed because most survivors don't want to learn? it isn't the spirits fault, nor is it bad balance
it is just bad survivors staying bad and refusing to learn.
the reason why spirit "kills more than usual" is because people are used to standard M1 killers, then when it comes to a actually BALANCED AND STRONG KILLER THAT IS A M2 KILLER. they don't know what to do and die. then blame spirit for being something unique and not the usual M1 killer frame.
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@FreakPrince said:
Killers don't talk.
plague would like a word with you
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@HeroLives said:
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/976/OXDJSASJMD4B.jpeg
Just going to leave this here.
no one has said that new nurse is impossible, just saying the nerf she got to her basekit was not deserved and handled very poorly. she was already a difficult killer to play (yet someone who has put a ton of hours into her could get great results) and they made her more difficult. just the other day I countered a nurse in purple ranks, want to know what I did? mostly ran in a straight line and broke LoS every once in a while, had about a 1min 30 -2m chase, and we won easily after that, she just face camped the last survivor so she got 1 kill
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@OmegaXII said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/831378#Comment_831378
Problem is people are not throwing pallet down early, and then blame spirit for getting the upper hand
that is why I say DONT NERF SPIRIT, she is not OP because people refuse to learn how to counter a M2 killer.
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for spirit, being at a pallet is not a losing scenario, just like in Tru3's videos talking about spirit counter play, you want to throw down the pallet early vs spirit, NOT let spirit able to stand in the pallet then commence the mindgames of phasing or not phasing.
For nurse, no range addons or CDR addons, just run in a straight line and when she starts getting close use objects to break LoS and not be predictable in your pathing, you will waste a good amount of time
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@NuclearBurrito said:
You are confusing average with mode.
a 2k average does not mean most games are 2k. That would be the mode.
Average just means the sum of all kills over the number of games is 2
yet in red ranks a 4k can still mean depip/black pip. even 3k's can be black pip. best case scenario of a 2k is a black pip. if 2k is average and is the framework for balancing, something needs to change, either the emblem system or the framework for what is considered balance
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look at this perfectly balanced game
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JAxXjDwM52Yas thanos once said
"perfectly balanced as all things should be" "this, this puts a smile on my face"
/s
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@xEa said:
"2K and i blackpip, this is not working" ...
Seriously? If thats the case, the system is perfectly working.
0-1K Depip
2K Blackpip
3-4K +1/2
Thats how it should be
BUT the thing is balance to BHVR is 2 kills 2 escape anything more and you are "overperforming"
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@Staloz said:
I’m not saying your wrong, all I’m saying is there is more then killing to a killer ( I know it sounds stupid but hear me out) I play killer manly and yes most the time when I don’t get a 3-4K I safety pip/de-pip but in one of my recent matches I got no kills but still got a pip, and not barely but about 2 bars. I held off gens and used my power and got enough chases, so it’s still possible to pip even without getting the kills.
what rank
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@immortalls96 said:
I'll be blunt..im..sick..of..running..ruin..its a boring perk and I have nothing to do with it aside from guard it should I deem to..but I'd much rather use perks like dying light because it rewards killers for completing objective rather than pray my early game defence gets to last more than 10 seconds.
So my solution to this issue with at least this perk is simple..
1. Remove the buff to the obsession..they keep the immunity,/ this way the perk still has a way to play around it but the obsession is the safest person in the match until late game as the killer likely wont dare focus you too hard..but immunity on top of a built in botany knowledge is silly..
2..increase the stacks from 3 to 5 percent but,/ cap the tokens at 5..this keeps true to the old dying light so it's no stronger than before you just have to earn it a different wsy..while also not taking the entire game to do anything
how I would change it is increase the % of slow down by 1, also make it to where hooking your obsession to death WONT de-activate the perk it will be like STBFL where it will still be active but wont get any more stacks. that way you wont be afraid to kill your obsession.
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there is SO MUCH I WOULD DO! but tbh the biggest thing would be buff hex totems to do 2 things now, 1 they do not light up a dull totem until their effect activates, and 2 make it to where hex totems RE-activate after X time, but for totems like huntress or Devour that require tokens, they lose a token to become re-activated. and how this would work is if someone cleanses say Devour at 2 stacks, 30-45 seconds later it will choose a dull totem that has not been cleansed, re-light but it will now have 1 stack. and with ruin it will just re-light. this way you wont need to do a overall slow down on gens for balance since ruin will have more uptime and it will encourage a 2nd objective of cleansing all the totems and it will lessen the strength of Noed and make it a less used perk/ give people a reason to cleanse all the totems other than thinking the killer has ruin
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@JiggleWiggle said:
I mean i had a game where i lootet two Rainbow maps without plunderers sooo. If keys are bothering you take Franklin's. And with the tome giving you the quest to Plunder what do you expect, ofc there are a lot of keys.
You notice the increasing of keys being in the game bc people actually plunder. But im telling you i get engineers toolboxes like a lot.
franklins is useless against keys, because they can just find the hatch, get the key then escape through the hatch. and you used a perk for franklins to do ABSOLUTELY NOTHING. unless franklins just straight up DELETED ITEMS it is not worth the slot
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@OMagic_ManO said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/830671#Comment_830671
I should never have to play a game in fear it'll be changed based on how I play or others play, that's absurd.
that is the current direction of BHVR balance. so you better get used to it because it is a 4v1 game but survivors should be able to 1v1 killers, that is why spirit is getting nerfed
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@Peanits said:
I would argue that your gripe is then with the emblem system rather than balance.
I do agree that if you're getting 3/4 kills in a match, you probably should be pipping (unless you're just camping whenever you hook somebody, for example). Though if you're getting two kills and not pipping, it sounds like it's doing its job just fine. You're at a rank that you're comfortable in and performing as expected. Ranking up further would mean that the system is failing you, and if that happens, you'll wind up getting paired with people above your skill level and have a bad time.
then what about all the games at red ranks where you outplay the survivors so hard the game is under 5min and all 5 gens are up and 4ked but you get a black pip because you played so well you didn't hook anyone 3 times? what are you supposed to just stop playing for a while to let them recover so you can pip? or go for the full "im trying to kill survivors", end the game in under 5 min with a 4k and black/depip because of that. you end up with the 4k but still get punished for it with a black/depip yet outplayed the survivors at every turn more than likely to end the game that quick with a 4k. doesn't seem right
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@gaydavidking said:
Its always weird to me when i hear the killer's emblem system explained, since it seems more balanced around giving survivors a fair and "fun" game than actually... killing them.
Like I get why, since killers would just camp to secure more sacrifices if they counted more towards devout, but it seems weird that it requires you to basically farm or play less optimally with survivors to get the max # of hooks for each of them, instead of rewarding killers that actually kill survivors quickly and with less gens done.
don't forget that getting 1 shot kills with stuff like plague fully infecting them then hitting them or billy back revving makes your chaser emblem HORRIBLE, you are being punished by being a M2 killer/just using your power
makes sense
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@PinkMochaV2 said:
Eh, Killers like Legion could pip without a single kill as I recall.
That said, I disagree with 2k/2escape being a bad target. It is the perfect target.
BUT the Emblem system needs to be changed so that it reflects that goal realistically. If the target "neutral" is 2Ks then 2K should give you a black pip almost all the time. You should only pip if you are getting 3k or more.
sometimes a 3k Is still a black pip due to gatekeeper, and maybe someone didn't die from 3 hooks, or a DC, or you are playing hillbilly/plague which are known to have low chaser emblems by getting 1 shots with their powers. 3k is anywhere from black pip to pip but mostly inbetween so still a black pip
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a killer killed me while I was running in a straight line, pls nerf so I can run and Tbag at the same time and still not be caught
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you don't, you either bring a mori to ruin their time or you DC forcing them to wait longer for a game
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there is a reason I de ranked out of red ranks
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@Huntar said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/817903#Comment_817903
Any word on how the devs intend to make her more fun to play for killers?
look to the nurse changes and you will see they don't intend to, just make it even easier for survivors to escape and make there to be no counter to 4 man SWF other than just never letting them get a game by Dcing
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@Peanits said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/817979#Comment_817979
What you've just done is not explain why The Spirit shouldn't be changed, but rather list what else you'd like to see changed. I agree with what you've said, but not changing one thing because some other thing exists is how nothing gets done. These things take time, and like the recent instaheal changes, we'd like to revisit a lot of these things as soon as we've gotten the chance.
no I stated that you are looking at changing spirit because of the "unfun" part about her that survivors complain about, NOT because of her being TO STRONG, like I said in my post, some survivors find spirit not fun BECAUSE they can't bully her like many other killers in the game. there are few posts about her being "OP and broken/to powerful" many of the threads are the "unfun" part of spirit. but like I said it is because spirit is in control of the game, not the survivors for once. if you change spirit similar to how you changed nurse then a lot of the killer base will either de rank or stop playing killer in red ranks. and 4 man SWF co-ordianated teams will be insta escapes for them. you will be changing the 1 solution to the problem of 4 man SWF without dealing with that. it will have a domino effect you have not accounted for I bet you.
i am saying to not nerf spirit because of her "unfun factor" because a lot of this "unfun factor" that people complain about is that spirit is actually balanced, unlike most of the list of killers, where this leads to the SPIRIT being in control, not the survivors. and survivors are not used to that so they think it is wrong, in a 4v1 game mode that the 4 should be in control not the 1.
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@Peanits said:
To say that nobody asked for changes is objectively untrue. It doesn't take much searching to find a whole trove of videos, threads, and comments about The Spirit. I think you're missing the point of the argument, it's very rarely about how powerful she is, it's about not being fun to play against. You cannot tell someone that they're having fun when they're not, that's not up to you to decide.
If you want to argue that a video game shouldn't be fun to play, I'm not sure what to say at that point.
killers don't have fun about 4 man SWFS with keys, and full co-ordination making the killers game a living hell, that isn't fun yet that has not been changed yet..... spirit is one of the only killers left after the nurse changes that can stand up to those SWF's afterwards, just looking at the nurse changes you have not given confidence to the community that you can change spirit to still be as strong as she is but "more fun for survivor" where fun for the survivor atm is bullying the killer
you said it yourself that it is not that spirit it to strong but just "not fun to play against" some people find that "not fun" factor as being UNABLE to bully the killer, and that for a change the KILLER has control of the game instead of the survivors which the killer SHOULD have control.
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@Star99er said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/813988#Comment_813988
“Last One Down and a Boom Boom!”
Throwin some cova for ma brothas.
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@Hoodied said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/813413#Comment_813413
Go bam-bam-bam- bamb- trick em
I feel most alive when rapidly approaching my death!
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Mozambique here
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welcome to dedicated trash server tests by BHVR, you just now noticed this?
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@UltraBanana said:
Losing isn't fun. That's why I don't do it.
Who's ready to fly on a zipline? I am!
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@sulaiman said:
so, it seems we are back to the unfair matchmaking.
Yesterday i was bullied by 3 red ranks band together with a rank 12 survivor (which they told me after the game used an alt account, hes a rank 1 player too), today the same.
Why do i have to been bullied at rank 10 from groups of redranks because they are allowed to take one low rank account into their mids to prevent fair games from the beginning?
And now one of the few killers that can handle that are announced to be nerfed. I really concider stoping to play this game after such experiences.
because of dedicated servers, the current "test" does not have enough servers for everyone so long Q times and when you actually get a lobby due to it just rushing to get people together it disregards ranks I will say this again
THIS DEDICATED SERVER TEST NEEDS TO END IT HAS GONE ON LONG ENOUGH, THE SERVERS ARE TRASH STILL
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@HeroLives said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/807537#Comment_807537
The devs don’t count dcs when they look at match results to determine balance. Those are automatically thrown out.
show me where they say this
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@KuromiStarwind said:
Because SWF just wanna "have fun" and Spirit ruins that fun.
I don't... really think justifying one imbalanced thing with another is a very good argument either way, pal. Assuming either of them are.
yeah, she ruins that fun because SWF want to bully other killers where spirit is strong enough to beat the bullies.
SWF is not Survive with Friends
it is Bully with friends
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Long Q times and when I get into a game my ruin is gone in 60 seconds or less, or there is a DC!
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@Hoodied said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/807665#Comment_807665
Macmillian is Iron works I believe
ehh i see that map I just think of iron works of BS as the name
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@Hoodied said:
Please do this devs
Farm maps straight up nerf legion, haddonfield is almost an infinite, and macmillan is really annoying to deal with
don't forget iron works of BS with that giant loop that takes no brains to use
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@PoisonN said:
I'm so scared to remove my ruin, I don't know... gens pop so fast without it and even with it lol
once I got it I usually never take it off unless I feel like doing a insidious basement leatherface
the few times I have not used it 1-2 gens pop by the time the 1st person is down (purple/red ranks btw) that is a bit difficult to come back from unless you start slugging HARD, I only slug for the 4k because of hatch but other than that I try not to slug that much
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@Almo said:
I don't run Ruin. Here are some of the sets of Killer perks that are sitting on my Killers right now. Some of these might be different if I had more perks on the different Killers, but I really don't use Ruin much.
BBQ, Nurse's Calling, Sloppy Butcher, PGTW
Brutal Strength, Fire Up, Overcharge, NOED
Enduring, BBQ, PGTW, NOED
Bitter Murmur, NOED, Bamboozle, PGTW
PGTW, Spirit Fury, Enduring, NOED
Franklin's, NOED, Agitation, Iron Grasp
Sloppy Butcher, Whispers, Nurse's Calling, BBQ
5/7 of those perks is Noed…… I feel like Noed is a crutch perk 100% since it kinda rewards you for losing tbh.
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@Aven_Fallen said:
I had no DCs recently when playing Spirit, and no DCs when playing against Spirit. Played like 6 times vs her today, no DCs.
And well, overperforming...Spirit is easy to play. She is low effort, high outcome. I would call that overperforming, when all you need to have is some ears. Like... I have ears.
overperforming is because most matches with spirit have a DC, making the game a insta win for the spirit because of 3v1 from the getgo
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@NMCKE said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/807413#Comment_807413
Scratch marks are delayed, remember? :D
not by that much and plus idk what they did but it seems like scratch marks are screwed up atm, it will look like someone went 1 way with scratch marks but went the other. so scratch marks at mare not the most reliable
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@NMCKE said:
Here's what I'd do 🤗😁
- Switch the rarity of Mother-daughter Ring and Prayer Beads.
- Make Spirit leave Blue Scratch Marks behind her while she is Phasing.
- Decrease her Phase cool-down to 10 seconds (currently it's 15 seconds).
that would kill her, mainly the blue scratch mark idea
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@Laakeri said:
My survivor is r7 and killer is r8 so it should be impossible for both sides to have long que in similar ranks. Or maybe everything is more broken than usual?
it is because of these Dedicated TRASH SERVER TEST that is still going on, at least they are still calling it a test that is what @Peanits said, basically there is not enough servers and since because of 1 the event and 2 the double BP and 3 the rift pass, a lot of people are playing making it a LONG line to get a match.
these dedicated servers need to be turned off, this test has gone on for
FAR
TO
LONG
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you forgot about killer side
- run ruin or the game is over in under 5min
- if you dont run top tier killer you are probably gonna have a bad time
- long Que times
- needing a 4k to pip barely most of the time, rarely will you ever 2 pip
- sweat every game or enjoy losing in under 5min
- wanting to just quite the game when you run into a 4 man SWF
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@Hag.is.Dtier said:
If you haven't seen it already, Scott did a video on the hate for Spirit and what he would change to make her more "interactive" and "fun".
So what are your thoughts Scotts video and how would you change Spirit?
Me personally, just rework prayer beads and get rid of collision with survivors, while phase walking.
I made a comment about this video and I will be copying and pasting it to here, it is long and it has time stamps pertaining to the video
1:04 now I will say old legion was boring but that is a completely fine notion of "you are going down even if it takes a while" you are not meant to 1v1 the killer as a survivor, that is why there is 4 of you, you have 2 hits before you go down (unless specific 1 shots occur) and you need to be hooked 3 times before you die. your job as survivor is to waste as much of the killers time throughout the match among the 4 survivors to power the exit gates and escape. there should be no 1v1 potential unless the skill of the survivor vastly out scales that of the killer but that is why the MMer is in place.
1:19 you say there is no feedback against spirit when you are wrong, there is 2 details about spirit that lets you know when she phases
1 the glass in her body lights up
2 her hair resets its animation
now the hair one can be covered up by a cosmetic and so can SOME BUT NOT ALL of her glass shards, (but cosmetics giving a in game advantage is not unheard of just look at blendete)
this notion of her giving no feedback has only been made by people who don't want to pay attention to tells that are not as obvious as daylight
you even admit to the glass lighting up part, which then contradicts your "sprit gives no feedback" right there, but you say that it is not reliable but I am able to make those reads myself plenty, it also helps to get in the mind of the killer a bit and that is why I play both sides, killer and survivor. just because your friends may not be good at determining the details is not a good reason to write off one of the tells for counter play.
also as a tip to all those who say you cant counter spirit, next time you are at a semi unsafe pallet, and you don't know if the spirit is phasing or not just WALK AWAY, DONT JUST STAND THERE. walk away? then she is phasing around the loop looking for you, if she is doing the mindgame? she will probably break the pallet or at worst will phase around it wasting time of her power to go around it and towards you but because you are walking, it will be harder to track you so also DONT BE PREDICTABLE IN YOUR MOVEMENT. do these 2 things and you will do much better against spirit
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@NuclearBurrito said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/804325#Comment_804325
Considering that those are likely a bug and they don't work on some skins I'd not use that. You might get a falsely think you know something you don't and make a mistake.
from what I hear they are not a bug, they used to glow a lot more after her release but then was changed, also her hair resets its animation when she phases, yes some skins hide the hair detail but there is always glass shards on her to see, some skins hide it yes but don't forget blendete exists still so using cosmetics to ones advantage is not unheard of in this game
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they don't risk a ban to DC, I got so tired or red rank BS, way to much stress. abusing the horrible balance on most maps and no matter how well I was doing gen pop after gen pop, ruin gone in 30 seconds or less, I just watched some TV with my laptop next to me going into games and insta Dcing to de rank. the game is so unbalanced red ranks is asking to have high stress and I don't feel like sweating every single game to just get 3k or sometimes a 4k. or better yet no matter how well I do it is a 4 man escape because SWF breaks the game
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what rank are you. that determines a lot
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@NuclearBurrito said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/803880#Comment_803880
I've found that method is too inconsistent. If they were faking the phase they can just see where you are walking and phase there with certainty of where you went making it a 50/50. You can get better odds than that.
The most consistent way I've found to juke the Spirit at a pallet after dropping it is:
Step 1 - Run directly away from the pallet
Step 2 - After about 2 seconds of running double back and vault the pallet. Veer off to one side slightly when doubling back
Step 3 - IMMEDIATELY slow vault back
Step 4 - Run away for a bit again
Step 5 - Walk out of LoS
The exact timing depends on the length of the loop
From the Spirit's PoV:
1: She sees you running. This forces her to make a snap decision so she can't stand still and wait for you to make your move. She will almost always phase.
2: By the time she actually gets around the loop you'll be at the pallet again and can vault it
3: Since she heard you vault the pallet she'll double back around to that side of the pallet
4: By the time she gets there you'll have gotten back to the other side of the pallet. Since she thinks you are still at the other side of the pallet AND that the scratchmarks you are now running over to reach a hiding spot were from your initial juke, that gives you a good chance of losing her entirely
Do note that this won't work more than maybe twice against a decent Spirit, so be sure to switch it up throughout a match. But that kind of thing is a personal favorite of mine since it doesn't fall victim to the normal 50/50 at pallet loops.
don't forget that in my post I said that I look at the details to know when she is phasing, so there is no fake out mindgame that happens