Starrseed
Starrseed
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I think basekit ub is totally fine I just hope they remember to look into the killers that have some what are depending on a good slug. The base 45 seconds might not be a problem but when they use ub it could be kinda short for oni or Myers to capitalise on there power because they deactivate when they pick up a survivor and let's not forget twins. They might be rare but I think they will be the ones that will feel the change the most and just because they are rare they shouldn't be ignored quite the opposite actually
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I think for this two it would be fair. They are designed to snowball while there power is up now that the base game gets changed killer powers that get affected by that change should be changed to
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In light of the recent ub basekit reveal do you think your ideas still work out?
Especially the very hard penalty for killing a survivor without distributing the hooks evenly. Woulnd that make a survivor invincibile.? One surv could force himself on me and when he is on dead hook he can't die because I get punishment for killing him and I can't slug him
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@White_Owl said:
How many people do you see using the Matchbox on Nurse? I'm all for these kind of addons but the truth is that people only want "the good ones" like increased blink range.
since i am veeeeery bad with nurse i would probably use it all the time if it wasnt iri wich is one of the reasons why this idea came up. and you could for sure tweak it so in the end you have a viable playstyle and not just some meme thing that only gets used by contentcreators
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is there proof for that? and i mean reall proof like a recording of a fogwisperer showing that they can disconect without a penatlity not some trust me bro from an ex wisperer
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ich denke das blutnetz ist wie es ist weil die devs eigentlich gern hätten das du halt nicht immer das hast was du gerne hättest damit man halt nich immer die selben tools oder die selben addons sieht.
in der realität is das natürlich schwachsinn da die leute im zweifel bp mit anderen killern farmen um dann ihre addons auf dem main zu farmen
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@fulltonon said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3114784#Comment_3114784
So is higher FPS, and so is current spine chill.
Accessibility giving slight advantage is not a problem.
Hell even color blind mode could give advantage.
i know people using colourblind mode in lol because it can help to see skillshots better. sure people can pull a tiny adventage out of accessibillity stuff but that doesnt mean we shoulnd have them cause in the end if you want that adventage you could use those options
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all good points i must say. as a legion main i think you are right about thana. before the update thana was fine and sure legion and plague get the most out of the perk but is that really something bad? no, ofcourse not since the killers are so diffrent from eachother you will always have a killer that can get more out of a perk then other killers. what is so bad about thana and why so many survs rightfully complaint is that its not only thana. a legion or plague with a full slowdown build is not ok, we should have a cap when it comes to action speed be it slowing it or speeding it up
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i think that is a quite difficult thing to decide because both ways has its pros and cons.
atm it can be difficult to balance perks thats true because for every perk you need to consider if it to strong if it gets paired with perks that do simmilar things or affact simmilar things and you need to look at every killer power but since we dont have restricktions we dont only get very strong stuff we also get just stupid funny stuff that somehow works through the power of believe like super skillcheck doc.
on the other hand restickting perks from working together and restrickting how certain powers work with perks would be a very big reliefe for the whole balance because it would be much simpler but it also could get a total chaos of discussions for the community and the devs. why does perk x work with power y and not with power z they are similar blablabla.
in the end i think stuff like pr dms are okey even when they are strong when they have a counter sure this combo hasnt the most exciting counter but it has one. when it comes to stuff like thana on legion and plague the problem isnt that this one perk works so good on these killers because that alone would be ok the problem comes from the fact that we dont have caps for effects like that everything that affects speed be at negative or possitiv should be capped so you dont end up with crazy numbers.
the devs should be really cautios when it comes to restrickting perks on certain killers because first of it would open many not needed debates because every one can think of a perk he thinks should not work on a certain killer and second when we get to a point where most things are better balanced we might come to a point where you feel like you cant really use any builds because you cant combine things and your power restriks other things and you end up with lightborn shadowborn franklins pop
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@ProfSinful said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3111093#Comment_3111093
sounds like a basement trapper/bubba take tbh
sounds like what bhvr thinks about the basement.
but lets be honest you can avoid the basement pretty good when i start a round and i see the shack a make a quick check where the basement is and i would rather go down quicker because i avoidet going near the basement then looping near it and maybe end up down there
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@ProfSinful said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3110672#Comment_3110672
You can make the game scary without an outdated and bs mechanic.
basement is designed as something very powerfull the survivors need to be carfull of. it is a weapon the killer has that is meant to give you a choice as survivor when you loop the killer. do you risk getting downed near the basement or do you choose a difrent route and use difrent tiles that maybe are weaker but getting you of the hook is easier in the long run.
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sure why not but we are gonna take a token per aura that gets blocked so when you shield another surv you lose two tokens of you are alone you lose one.
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technicly you are right it would be faster to allow for an unhook and then rehook because this way the surv is faster in the next stage but that would just mean people would proxy to tunnel wich also no one likes. i get that camping is frustrating and that tunneling feels bad because you dont make many points and it often feels cheap but it isnt easy to come up with something that works to lower the camping and tunneling numbers but at the same time dont feel frustrating for the killer. if it where easy bhvr would have done it already.
in my mind the whole game is a bit flawed. you dont want killers to camp and tunnel wich means you first need to ensure they dont feel the need to do it and then force the stuborn rest that likes to be a dick. so you could give the killer one random surv aura every time he hooks so he has a new target to hunt and you could even give extra bp for hunting said target but then you still land with the problem that chases often are to long and the killer loses in the long run if the survs work efficently. so you make gens need longer (wich they tryed with this patch) but doing a gen isnt really all that nice and fun. most survs say what they like most is the chases and i am sure most of the killers would like that to but atm the best chase for a killer is the shortest chase not the chase that made the most fun.
so you have that wierd circle where gens need to be longer because chases are fun and should be longer but thats bad for the killer and a long chase is bad for the other survs because gens are boring. afterall bhvr should really think about either a second game mode that changes everything and risk splitting the community or doing the jump into the blue and risk everything by staling new chapters and basicly develop dbd 2.0 because as much as i like dbd i think we might run into a problem sooner or later
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@airii said:
I don't mind killer buffs, actually its nice I guess but we need to balance it out with making tunneling and camping not rewarding! All we get after the patch is tunneling and camping killers at 5 gens because they can afford it now even more while knowing that the rest of the party is screwed.
Just make the hook timer stop completely when killer is near without being in chase and some kind of mechanic that when hooking only one survivor they get minus points or something... make the game reward killers for hooking multiple survivors rather than killing one at the start of the game!... make the killers want to chase other survivors and not stay in one place all the time.
I like the intense matches that we get now when killer decides to play rather fairly, where everyone gets hooked twice rather than one person dying without the killer even looking at someone else which we get even more now than before... out of like 10 games, only 1 or 2 killers decide to chase survivors while the rest just camps and tunnels someone at the start. This has been a problem for a long time and now its even more exaggerated as other 3 survivor don't have the time to finish the gens while the last person is being camped and tunneled to death (and even more when other survivors decide to be altuiristic 'cause not everyone wants to sac someone and just hold M1 on gens, which is not even an option anymore anyway) and the killer knows it.
The buffs are nice but just make something about the other problems to balance it out so everyone has a fair chance. Most killers just tunnel and camp because they can instead of being grateful they dont need to anymore.
@kingcarl2012 is totally right with the camping stuff and tunneling cant be fixed that easy either. when you start giving the killer a penallity of any kind for hitting or hooking the same survivor again you basicly made a meat shield where the killer has to decide is does he let the unhooked and the unhooker go because the unhooked is bodyblocking or does he go for the down on the unhooked and gets a penallity for that
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@Firellius said:
Fun isn't a metric for balance, but things can be balanced in a fun way and in a non-fun way.
If you get a killer that starts the trial with the ability to instantly kill two survivors, but that subsequently is completely unable to interact with the remaining two, that would be immaculately balanced, and absolutely zero fun for both parties.
that is actually a really good example
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@HugTheHag said:
I do think some things that are generally unfun for everyone, or the vast majority, should be prevented.
But it is simultaneously true that not everyone has the same idea of fun. I personally have most fun playing friendly and adopting survivors. My best friend has most fun when stomping.
exactly what i think. the truly awefull stuff should go but you cant make it always fun for everyone because you will always have someone that only has fun when he wins wich is fair but then you cant have two side where only one can win
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@BubbleBuster said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3097018#Comment_3097018
never called you buddy, that's disrespectful
also i think you forgot about literally all the other buffs so let me remind you of them:
- Generators take 90 seconds for a single survivor to repair (was 80 seconds)
- Killers kicking a generator now immediately cause a 2.5% loss of progress in addition to starting regression
- The following Killer actions have been sped up by 10%:
- Bloodlust trigger times have been reduced to 15 seconds for Tier 1, 25 seconds for Tier 2, and 35 seconds for Tier 3 (was 15 seconds, 30 seconds, and 45 seconds)Cooldown time after a successful hit has been reduced to 2.7 seconds (was 3 seconds)
- Time to kick a generator has been reduced to 1.8 seconds (was 2 seconds)
- Time to kick a pallet or wall has been reduced to 2.34 seconds (was 2.6 seconds)
- Duration of the Survivor speed boost when hit has been reduced to 1.8 seconds (was 2 seconds)
- Endurance does not prevent a Survivor from entering the dying state if they are inflicted with Deep Wound
- Endurance status effect is now cancelled by Conspicuous Actions
- survivor perk nerfs
- inconsequential killer perk nerfs (sure ruin and pop are dead but there are enough replacements)
- killer perk buffs
- the removal of DH significantly reduces chase length
please do not undersell that all these add up and they are indeed huge; this is not a bad thing because killers needed really needed it, but dont just ignore it happened.
this patch was really generous to killers but when it comes to camping and tunneling they made a mistake. they took away the bp gain from bbq so no one runs it anymore and lets be real it helped to reduce camping in the early game and they took away the info part of pr. i personally dont have bbq so i coulnt use it even if i wanted to but since pr isnt giving me info anymore i have a harder time to find a new targed so sticking around a place i know someone will come sounds good and i just dont do it because i dont like camping. and yes i know there will always be people that camp no matter what and you could only stop them by making camping a bannable offens but that isnt going to happen.
maybe we could mak a mini bbq basekit so when you hook someone you see the aura of one survivor and when you ingage in a chase with that survivor in the next 60 second you get some bonus bp. that will probably not get rid of camping but i think it could lessen the amount of people that camp a bit
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thats never giong to work. you will always have a killer that is viewed as the strongest so even if they nerf nurse and blight some killer will have the place as "the worst to face" so with a ban system you condem one killer to have insanly long q times. and what happens then? bhvr nerfs "the best" killer so he didnt get banned all the time and another one takes his place after one or two weeks and the circle begins a new
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@LepewSurvivor said:
In general, I don't need my games (which is play, you know... for enjoyment) to make me feel vicerally sick. Who thought at BHVR that negative reinformcement was a good thing? How about instead of "debuffing" the survivor through a killer power, you buffed the killer?
Win-win situation no?
I mean, since when, as a business, degrading the customer experience... I mean survivor experience... is the right course of action? And before you tell me "well this is a horror game, it is supposed to make you uncomfortable", where do we draw that line?
Is it ok to have the screen turn blurry with discordant sounds to start inducing diziness in you? Oh, wait... never mond, we already have this covered by the Clown...
How about making it so that your screen turns darker and darker to a point where you just give-up the chase to have the killer put you out of your litteral misery? Ahhh... bad example, we got that covered by Legion and Plague...
Oh, I know, I know... what if we made something so punishing to the survivor (like prevent them from running, interrupt all their actions - including the one attempting to remedy to the current condition, ...) that they could not ignore it? Cenobiiiite, my man!
I know, I know, a bit of a caricature here, but only to drive this point: you don't have to use negative experience (i.e. debuff) to balance the game play, you can instead use a positive experience (a buff) on the other party.
BHVR, any thoughts?
i think what they wanted to do is give the dregde the edge when nightfall activates but there is only so much you can to with buffs. nightfall is trying to make the killer stronger in chase by making it harder for the survivor to navigate the map and loop so how to achieve that with buffs? sure you could make him better in chase by buffing his speed and things like that but how do you make it harder for survivors to travel the map and find gens wich is part of the power other then taking there vision away?
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@GoodBoyKaru said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3097054#Comment_3097054
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3097022#Comment_3097022
You're completely correct in that it was a non-factor and that's entirely why it was fine*.
*Fine here meaning "not an accessibility nightmare that causes serious problems to a portion of the community".
i think that we have a very big problem when it comes to things like this.
i think nightfall is a really nice and creative power when you compare it to other killer powers but it can be a big problem when it comes to accessibillity. so whats the way to go stop making creativ power like that so at some point we have a bunch of killer that are powerwise basicly the same or do they keep making powers like that but they are either a problem for certein people or they are toned down so much they are basicly not there at all
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i think the idea is not bad and could help with the balancing just your role distribution is a bit off for me.
why is artist not a range killer and plague nemi and phead look a bit strange between the other much faster killer but that a personal thing i guess
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@FilthyLegionMain said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3093484#Comment_3093484
As a Legion main, i hate thana for that sole reason. Makes it too easy.
thana alone woulnd be that bad. it didnt needed a buff and before the patch it was the only gen related perk i was running on legion. in my eyes it gave the game exactly the right lenght so every one could get some points and play and i wasnt in need to camp or tunnel but i wasnt super op
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@IsJustMe said:
Das ist halt der hatch-standoff, gehört zum Spiel wer zuerst da ist hat gewonnen. Die meisten wollen allerdings das der Gegenspieler das auch mitbekommt, klar kann nerven wenn man in die nächste Runde will, finde es allerdings nicht so schlimm das da irgendwas geändert werden muss.
Wenn du das nur aus killersicht sagen kannst musst du ja nur auf den surv zulaufen und er ist raus....
GG in den endgamechat und ab in die nächste runde
nein bloß nich hinlaufen genau das selbe wenn sie im tor stehen und darauf warten das du als killer kommst. lauf rum guck ob du noch ne Palette oder ne wand einreißen kannst für punkte und warte den ganzen timer ab. ich hab schon of böse Nachrichten bekommen nach nem spiel weil die so sauer wahren das sie es mir nicht unter die Nase reiben konnten. manche Leute spiele nicht um spaß zu haben sondern ziehen ihren ganzen spaß nur daraus den gegner so richtig zu mobben und vorzuführen meist auch für YT und twitch
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the thing is they said they are working on solutions for that but it isnt easy to find a good way to handle this.
sure they could just make an unhooked survivor immune and give th hook a barrier the killer cant go in and that would fix both problems in an instant but would that be a good fix? i dont think so. the devs want camping and tunneling in there game atleast to a degree and that means every solution to hard camping und tunneling needs to be well thought and tested to keep it as a strategic tool for the killers but make it so its not to opressiv for the survivors
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i think they just cant give an eta because they need to find what lets that problem happen and then they need to find away to fix it without breaking something else. it gets a bit harder when you think about the fact nothing got changed with clown this patch so why does something break now
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ohh you mean like in the og yugioh show with the labrynth shadow
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@rvzrvzrvz said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3090775#Comment_3090775
ok but there are a lot of things they can do without ruining him, reduce his terror radius when he use power (and nerf global add on) then it's harder to detect the whole team and easier to split against him, I don't know it's just ideas
thats actually a good idea to lower his stabbing spree potential
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@rvzrvzrvz said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3090691#Comment_3090691
Imo remove deep wound and reduce his mov speed a bit, he should be able to injure 2 people with one use of his power on average, sometimes 3 when they're really packed together but not more... right now he can injure people way too easily
but then we go back to pre buff legion where his power isnt a threat
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@Pulsar said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3090660#Comment_3090660
They should make an exception.
How do you propose we get around Legion's absolutely horrific design and make him fun to play against?
to be honest i dont know. i mean im not a dev so my creativ power is a bit limited but in the end you can only have two types of killers. they either have a super deadly power like nurse so they have no need to prolong the games or you have killers like legion and plague that are less leathal but therefore need to drag the game.
if they really decide they cant come up with a way to make legion more fun to face without changing the core of legion i would be sad but if its better for the game it must be done but like i said they better give me back my money in that case
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@Pulsar said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3090544#Comment_3090544
His design is fundamentally flawed.
but you cant change that. if they would anounce they completly change legion to i dont know a range or stealth killer i would be so sad and i would want my money back for the char and all my skins. and bhvr knows that they said a couple of times they wont ever do what they did with freddy again
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@Pulsar said:
It's why I wanted Legion reworked instead of buffed.
His entire design is problematic and he's perhaps one of (if not the most) unfun Killers in the game. Worst part is, he still sucks.
they should never egain do a complete rework like they did with freddy. all you do with that is showing the finger to the community of mains that love the killer. sure they can tweak and change the killer so he is more fun to face but the core should never change and with legion its his running and stabbing so all they could do is take away his mending and make him leathel but i doubt that would be more fun to face
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you know what? this sounds like a idea that should be tryed atleast. it could work really well when bhvr takes the time to test it and how all the diffrent killer abilitys work with it.
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i pick legion most of my games since i started playing killer only. i be totally honest im not that good with other killers only with plague im somewhat decent.
now i will probably look kinda bad because i play only the two slogg killers but its not because they make the games so incredebly long. i mean i like that the games are a bit slower then normal but in the first place i play them because i like there mechanics. i love how legion plays with the fast running that you still can controlle and the stabbing frenzy. i just struggel with other killers with range killers i woulnd hit a dead survivor the size of a barn door and killer like blight or billy i struggle with hard.
but i think the biggest reason why i stick to legion and plague and gave up on learning the "harder" killers is because when i try to learn them and already struggle the bad matchmaking and super cocky survivor that taunt you at every mistake just exhaust me. sure some might think now man up and go through it but to be honest im a father and a husband im not a young guy with plenty of time anymore and when i sit down to have some fun i dont want to go through this.
maybe when we get bots to train with i will learn some of the harder killer or maybe some of you have a good recomendation for a killer to try that isnt to hard to learn
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@Fenn said:
i really love the new patch, and i also play both survivor and killer.
My issues are the same as you mentioned, I have thought on ways to fix it, and seen other players solutions. This is the way it would fix it the problem:
NOED - should be reworked/removed entirely, it reward the killer for basically not doing his job.
Tunnel - let Unbreakable recover you from dying sate. Not just once per trial, as it is now.
This way we get a perk that counter that play style, and still let the killer have that strategy in the backpack.
Camping - let the timer pause as long as the killer is too close to the hook. (10-20 meters from the hook)
the problem with noed lies within the way survivors think about the perk.
every time people talk about noed you hear it gives killer kills they dont deserve because they screwed up. thats just not true its an endgame perk its dead the whole game and the killers playes with three perks the whole game. the killer didnt screw up because the gens got done the devs says multiple times they want the game to be balanced to roughly 2k 2e so the gates must be powered in most of the games there is nothing undeserved. if we go with that mindset bloodwarden is undeserved hope is undeserved adre is undeserved.
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@Entitys_potato said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3085118#Comment_3085118
I'm still escaping in solo q, so how are the buffs overdone?
Choy has a video showing all gen regression perks and just how agonisingly long they take compared to a survivor progressing a gen. Go watch it.
The buffs are not over tuned. it's that survivors are not trying and just instantly quitting if they get found first or just not doing gens for some odd reason.
thats just my personal feeling. thana for example really didnt needed a buff it was a solid perk before the buff and i dont think the buff will change that mostly legion and plague use it.
i actually should look for that video because i dont know that much about regression perks but atm i really think the slowdown perks are more of a concern then the regression perks
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you have nice ideas but the only thing i find concerning is the hook teleport. first the idea itself isnt bad and many people say the hooks should do that. i dont think thats a good idea personaly but thats not important. what concerns me is that you explicitly say teleporting near a survivor. why near a survivor? isnt that basicly a free unhook without any danger? then we could just delet the whole hook machanic and just say after a down the survivor respawns on a random position
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@Aneurysm said:
The thing is, the whole premise that "killers shouldn't feel obligated to run multiple slowdowns per match" is a good one
But I don't know how viable it is to have that be the case, and also have a wide range of slowdown perks that a) are very strong and b) synergise well together
Most players want to win, most players will put on what they think are most likely to secure a win. BBQ's nerf cleared the path for a 4th slowdown perk.
So for gens to not be slowed to a crawl in most matches it's probable that either we return to the old ways with quicker gens at base and strong slowdown perks, or we have slower base gens and the slowdown perks -all of them- get smacked hard with the nerf bat. I think I'd prefer the second option.
the second option would be the best. fine tuned base gen times and weaker slowdown perks and most importantly a cap to slowdown. thana alone anoying but you can deal with it but three slowdowns with a potend regression perk is just hard.
i dont know why they buffed thana in the first place. because only legion and plague use it? well its like they made it for these two when i play other killer i dont use it so often because i dont have more then two wounded at all times so i rather take another perk and guess what i wont take the buffed version either because nothing changed on the premiss
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sure the ds nerf wasnt a good move they should put it back to 5sec and just keep the endgame deactivation but lets be real for a second dh was a busted perk i know that you know that. was it fun to use and to extend a chase without the killer having much of a counter? hell yeah with dh we could really play the killer it was one of the reasons there are so many videos on yt of survs trolling killers and making the game bad for them. it was unfair just like dms pr combo was unfair so now both things got worked on and are no where near as unfair as before the patch.
the devs for sure overdid it with this patch and there needs to be balancing some of the perk buffs are to much i think killers would be doing pretty good with the base kit buffs alone. and the devs really need to work on solo q and i dont mean super duper strong perks because sure they would help solo q but we still have swf wich would destroy with them. i mean solo q buffs that really help like basekit info stuff maybe even buffs that only apply on a survivor if he qs solo
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@Dead_Harder said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3084838#Comment_3084838
.... What? If some one goes down at the start you just lose?
No? Thats not how this works unless you make it into a self fullfilling prophecy by dcing when you go down. I had multiple games where i hooked 7-8 survivors before the first gen popped and then struggled to close out the game because survivors got it together and made a come back. Its not over till survivors start actively throwing.
the day before patch i was spamming plague games because she had like 30 flans and i was despretly trying to p3 my legion (didnt work out because my arm got hurt and i coulnd stand the pain for to long) but i had two games with the same streamer back to back and both games where lost because the first guy i found in both games killed himself on hook because plague unfair yada yada something and with three people they just coulnd make it. i got into his chat the second game and just farmed with them because these dc guys lose so many games for there teams its crazy
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the problem that i saw everytime a new perk got released was when the perk wasnt dh iw coh level strong it was "useless" and i get where this comes from because why would i run otr when iw gives me 100% silent for ever. now we got the really strong meta perk more in line but many people say every thing is now useless wich is just wrong. they lost power they shoulnd ever had the big problem with this patch is that first survs need to adjust to the changes wich is hard enough on its own because suddenly you cant take that extra round in a loop or you cant vanish after a hit because iw now has some sound left but at the same time they over did the killer buffs and didnt adress facecamping.
why dont we have an slowdown cap? why did thana needed a buff?
they overdid it and that makes adjusting to the new meta and the new playstyle for the survivor harder. i would say they did a good job on the surv changes in regard of taking away a bit of power from them to let them have more of a survivor feeling and i actually have already faced survivor that got down in chases because they still tbagged at every pallet and tryed to pull of some yt creator look how hard i can play that killer stuff but with the base changes and the perk nerfs they got down quiet fast and thats a good thing.
bhvr needs to look at the killer buffs again and tune down some of the perk buffs again and really think about some general caps for everything that can stack
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@Yffriium said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3084653#Comment_3084653
Fortunately, BHVR frequently doesn't listen to complaints of the player base when its comes to balancing changes. They tend to try to use statistics to guide their decisions instead of the hate comments of thousands of angry gamers. "Forever Legion" isn't really a thing, and survivors will soon figure that out. Just sit tight.
i hope you are right. i dont want to experience the treatment old freddy got
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@Reshy said:
Honestly, I think that skill checks should transition to a more mini-game sort of format, not dissimilar to stuff like what you get with Among Us. That way generators isn't hold a single button for an hour and occasionally press space but something more involved.
thats an interesting idea that also would make stealth killers a bit stronger since you are somewhat concentraiting on the gen and arent looking around the whole time
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@Yffriium said:
Thana got a buff from 5%/injure to 5.5%/injure. The difference is approximately 3 seconds worth of gen time per gen, assuming all four stacks are maintained throughout the game. If all four survivors aren't constantly injured, then the difference is even less. Reverting Thana will not solve the problem which you posit.
together with a slowdown cap it could lessen the complaints about forever legion and plague. i just dont want killers nerfed in the future that arent all that strong because of stupid slowdown stacking and how good it works on them
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@Regulus47 said:
Don't forget nerfs for artist, bubba, legion, pinhead and twins either. And the constant BM from killer mains BC they know they will always win against solo q now and are rubbing it in your face
i mean i dont know much about artist but bubba dont need nerf facecamping needs to be adressed legion dont need nerfs its just thana that didnt needed a buff pinhead also dont need a nerf and the twins need a good rework that keeps the spririt but makes them better to play.
and lets be real you cant pin bm on one of the roles because both bm like you get bp for it
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@prettypinkpansy said:
I love the new patch and I just wanted to say I think all of the changes are great on both survivor and killer side (I play both, about 60% survivor 40% killer, with about 1000 hours total). I really don't want to see it nerfed so I wanted to come in and voice my support.
What I like
I love the perk changes. I love the killer changes. I love that the meta has been shaken up so drastically and I love how much it's changing on both sides. I love that a lot of perks I liked but weren't very good have gotten buffed, and that a lot of perks I hadn't ever thought about using (like Dark Sense) are actually interesting now! I love the IDEA of adding anti camping/tunneling measures (if not the execution). I love the way this game is going if these changes are any indication.
The things I DON'T like are the NOED change and the unhook changes (the basekit haste+Borrowed Time). Not because it was bad to change either of these things, but because they're treating a symptom, not the cause.
NOED
How does the patch address NOED? It makes the hex totem easier to find. The problem is that I don't feel that NOED's problems are anything to do with that.
First, let me start by quoting the patch notes: "We like the way NOED encourages survivors to pre-emptively cleanse Totems". So having survivors eat dulls is the stated goal of NOED. Not necessarily a bad idea. A good way to buy more time for the killer and add variety to gameplay.
The problem is that there are no other perks in the game, except ARGUABLY Plaything, that work this way. NOTHING else interacts with dulls and lights them up mid-game. Meanwhile, there's four boon perks, sure to be more, that rely on you leaving dull totems intact. As well as Clairvoyance, Inner Strength and Overzealous.
That's one perk rewarding you for cleansing dulls, and seven perks that incentivize you to NOT break dulls. Even if you don't have them, maybe one of your three teammates does - and with several, you have no way to know for sure, so you may as well leave the totems alone. Is Nancy cleansing totems because she likes to cleanse totems or she has Inner Healing? You can't know! Then there's perks that punish you for cleansing dulls, like Undying, Thrill of the Hunt, Pentimento, or Retribution.
This is conflicting game design that can cause friction with your teammates. This thing is completely pointless 99% of the time, but in this one instance it's really bad and if you didn't break it that's your own fault, but also... the thing can be good so better leave a few for your teammates??? What kind of message is that, especially to new players? There have also been plenty of screenshots since 5.3.0 of people getting mad at their teammates for breaking totems because they brought a boon.
I know in high level play everyone breaks a totem or two and it's no problem, but in low to mid-level play if your teammates aren't touching generators OR cleansing dulls, it can feel like throwing the game to go break them all. I try to do my part and break one or two as I see them. I have 1000 hours in this game. But I feel like I've never, EVER in my memory seen NOED in a results screen and went "weird, never went off, I guess everyone did bones" in my matches, which must number well over a thousand at this point. The only time I remember seeing NOED on the results screen but not in the game was because I took a build entirely devoted to totems and broke 4 or 5 myself. I'm sure you can guess how often I've gone down to NOED, though.
(The answer is a lot.)
My teammates rarely do totems. I take Small Game often enough to know. There simply isn't enough incentive to do dulls for the average player - there's arguably negative incentive - and it's often unrealistic to do all of them yourself, especially without a perk for that purpose (try finding all 5 on Raccoon City, even with Small Game).
People argue that it is a "second chance" perk. I have no issue with second chances! I love perks like Deadlock or Grim Embrace or No Way Out! I'd even be fine with NOED with changes.
But NOED, in its current state, is not a "second chance" perk. It's a "you didn't get all 5 of the collectibles, so now the killer gets a free kill, surprise" perk. It feels very bad to struggle through a difficult game and get hit by NOED as you're about to cross the finishing line. But if you complain, people say "should've done bones" as if that's any comfort, or remotely realistic in the game you just played. And that is the only counterargument ever given for not doing the thing for a 1 in 100 chance the killer has a perk.
I'm sure someone will say "it's not really a 1 in 100 chance!", and they'd be right. So here's actual stats: out of 122 games I recorded over the course of two months, at varying times of day, killers and killer skill levels, there were 15 occasions of NOED. Roughly 12%. 107 games where it was never a factor. A lot of them I would not have survived had I stopped to try and break all the dulls.
So how do I think you should fix NOED?
Bring its mechanics more in line with other perks, or make more perks act like it. I'm not a game designer so these aren't perfect solutions, just examples, but either some kind of way to know NOED is a thing (like dull totems subtly lighting up before the last generator is done, so survivors have to check a totem before the final generator gets done and if NOED exists they either need to stop and break them all or gamble with their lives) or add more perks that require you to cleanse dulls. It makes it feel less like a waste of time, and it also incentivizes your teammates to break them as well.
Any change that contributes towards either of these factors would make NOED less of a pain for me. As it is now, I cannot stand it. I would take ten games where I get camped by a Basement Bubba over a single NOED game. At least Bubba is quick and you know what's going to happen.
The patch makes NOED easier to find when active, but that doesn't stop you the player going from full health to no health right in front of the exit gate with zero warning given. Yes, your teammates can find and break the totem, but they just as easily will leave you on hook. And what if you're on death hook? What if you down right next to where the totem spawned? Guess you're just out of luck. So the patch doesn't address any of the problems I've listed, and there are still scenarios where it feels "cheap" that the patch has done nothing to solve.
Camping/tunneling
Unfortunately, the changes do very little to discourage camping/tunneling. If anything, it feels like it makes them worse - teammates are more eager to unhook in front of the killer thinking it'll be "safe", and with Barbecue stacks no longer being a thing, killers don't have as many incentives to care about hooking equally. The fact is, any change will inevitably fail as long as killers can stay near a hook. 20 seconds basekit BT just means a killer with a 20 second stopwatch. It's just not going to work unless you fundamentally rework it.
So, why not use the system you already made? And by that I mean Pyramid Head's Cages of Torment. I don't mean copy it exactly - a killer still has to pick a survivor up and carry them to a hook, exposing them to Decisive Strike, blinds, stuns, et cetera, and keeping the Scourge Hook mechanic intact. But when they're on the hook, teleport them to a random hook on the map. Make it so the killer does not know where that hook is. Make it so that if the killer finds that hook and gets too close for too long, the survivor teleports to a hook further away from the killer (and pause the timer for a few seconds).
That's it. Now the killer can't camp, and tunneling would be a lot harder to do. The most egregious examples would be gone, for certain. What happens to the basement? I have no idea. Maybe it's the one place you CAN camp. Maybe teleport the killer out if he spends too much time in there, or give survivors free Kindred inside the basement. I don't know. Again, I'm not a game designer. But it's a simple rework based on existing gameplay systems.
Sorry for the long post, thanks if you read it!
the problem with that idea is that the killer should have the means to defend the hooks unhooks shoulnd be free and safe neither should they be impossible. trapper and hag for example are trap based killer and shine when they can lure you into there net of traps and a hooked survivor is the only good bait for that. perks like make your choice woulnd work if the hook gets teleported to the other side and the killer dont know where it is.
facecamping sucks and that needs to be adressed and bhvr atleast said they are looking for a solution but proxy camping is inteded as a means of pressure and not everyy killer has the means to speed around the map and three hook every survivor like nurse or blight. it a real balancing act to find a way to destroy the real unfun facecamping but at the same time leave stratigic proxy usable
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yeah i think that is a good idea if the put the right restrictions on it. lets say if all living survs are either slugged or on a hook after 30sec half of the slugged people get ub. so it counters toxic killers that let you bleed out but doesnt hit oni for example that has a slugg heavy kit
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im with you on the first three but prove doesnt need to be stronger because the patch wanted you to take longer to do gens. i think they should rethink the gens as a whole and come up with something interesting for the survs that keeps the reapairtime overall where it is but makes the gameplay more fun then just holding m1
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@burt0r said:
The biggest problem is they blanket buffed killer, so also blight and nurse which don't need it, and didn't really do anything against camping/tunneling.
What is happening right now is that survivor have to reconfigure their gameplay and bhvr has to show killer that a playstyle without camping/tunneling CAN now work.
Killer won't change their strategies when they got pseudo buffed by the changes and survivor have been sitting on their meta and the same base mechanics for so long that they have forgotten to adapt like in the beginning of the game.
In the first days killer were at the advantage when nobody new how to play efficient. Then survivor learned to use their potential and killer too. That's when broken stuff was nerfed over time.
Now the devs have used the sledgehammer and changed the meta without considering everything and we are in a pseudo release state. Killer are at the advantage until survivor find back to the most efficient strategies and then we will se how the new mechanics balance out.
But all of this needs more time than 48 hours but we as gamer and people have become impatient over the last 2-3 decades.
i think your last sentence is the most true thing i have heard in a while.
every big meta change needs the players to take there time to adapt and learn what works best now but the people dont want this all they see is that they used the same tactics and perks for two or three years and where succesfull and now suddenly the same stuff isnt working so bhvr bad
edit: the worst thing is that you can see people complaining that the had so much fun before the update and they where destroying every killer except nurse and now they struggel and they want it turned back but they dont give half a frik about how the other side felt
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what you say is 100% right. before we adress camping and tunneling we need to first make clear what we really mean.
facecamping is a nobrainer because thats camping for sure but proxy camping is a whole other story the killer should be allowed to roam the generell area of the hook cause there are other points of intrest there. maybe he wants to get rid of some pallets or a boon or a wall and then we have situations like three gens where it would be throwing to go away or when the killer knows other survs are just waiting for them to leave.
tunneling has the same problems. when one of your mates thinks its the best move the unhook the second i turned around thats on your team. sure i could ignore you and go for him but that means a potential long chase if he has good tiles near him so why should i let the bad move go unpunished. same goes for when the freshly unhooked surv has just bad luck. when i come to the hook and there are two sets of scratchmakrs giong in two directions i can only follow one so if it happens to be the unhooked that bad luck. on the other side just waiting near the hook to aim for the unhooked is something i find kinda scummy.
so it isnt easy to make clear what counts as camping or tunneling and if we made that clear the next even harder part is to what do against it. stopping the hook time for example was tested and didnt worked because the survivors did everything they could to abuse it with good loopers and strong tiles around the hook. we cant make it so killers feel like they cant protect a hook against overly altruistic survs or chase someone to hook because that would mean the killer loses all pressure. thats why bhvr didnt just used pheads cage machanik for the hooks because survs would just lead the chase to the hook so the hook would spawn somewhere totally safe
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with the winter outfits and the aot outfits i had just one question in my mind.
is it harder for bhvr to make killer skins or why do they make double the skins for survs then for killers in these two sets. no hate or killer crying just an honest question