SpaceCoconut
SpaceCoconut
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@Warlock_2020 said:
These are people who play this game as a job. Furthermore, they had a lot of help. This is by no means a benchmark to measure survivors by.
These are people who posted videos. Is it possible that there are survivor players who have long escape streaks who don't post videos about them?
Can't present evidence if people don't share it.
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@twistedmonkey said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1062465#Comment_1062465
Not being as many doesn't say anything as technically you are versing survivor v killer mains which of course there will be 4 x as many survivors. Also most streamers play survivor as itd easier to engage with thr community so again of course their will be more videos.
The one flick isn't quite the same but it's better than it was now as they buffed it again.
Yes a survivor should go in expecting to escape if they are one of the top players as for balance their should only be 2 kills in theory. What is wrong with expecting to be better than the other survivors they are matched with?
I pose you the seem question should a killer expect to get a 3 or 4k every game?
No because the devs have designed the game so a 4k is an exceptional result. Survivors have more tools at their disposal in addition to teamwork to prevent a 4k.
But this post is about individual survival rates. Not killer 4k capability.
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@gantes said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1062465#Comment_1062465
Did Speed Limiter Bubba get nerfed after the 32 4ks in a row Scott did?
Did Plague get nerfed after this video got posted?
Maybe people who play this game for a living are, indeed, better than the average player in a game that very few people take seriously enough to be good at.
I'm not asking for nerfs.
I'm simply asking if it's intended.
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@twistedmonkey said:
Where are the videos of Tru3, Marth and Otzdarva 4king 50 or so games in a row?
Should killers truly be able to 4k that often?
You are dealing with some top players here so I'd say yes they will be above the normal rate.
Because they aren't as prevalent as survivor escape videos. A search showed 2 results.
https://youtu.be/MLYAFjg63FM https://youtu.be/XZZU-3mb38AThe Oni video was made before the removal of his flick.
If a killer can 4k that often they get nerfed. Nurse, Spirit are recent examples.
Regardless of skill level, should a survivor go into a match expecting to escape?
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@twistedmonkey said:
You talk about a dedicated server issue which is causing issue with things on both sides.
The fix to DS obviously had nothing to do with it being a simple one and therefore the logical conslusion is it must have been about survivor bias 🙄.
Sometimes people can't see the Forrest for the trees.
Sometimes people can't take a joke either.
Such is life.
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Get sacrificed.
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I hope I'm not killed right away. I just want to get some quests done and extract.
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If you knew what I looked like, you would be laughing for the next 10 minutes thinking about me cosplaying as the Hag..
Also you might be a little grossed out ;)
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@BBQnDemogorgon said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1041281#Comment_1041281
What if the win condition is simply to pip? With the only difference being the backend number changes relative to the placement of your opponents they mentioned?
Example you pip but your opponents were below your mmr so you barely go up if at all in the back end. Opposite if they were above.
Without a better incentive, pipping will be a poor choice of a win condition. But for the sake of your example, we'll run with it.
Ok, so a few things we're not seeing here because we're just hypothesizing is how big of a difference are the skill numbers?
If you play this one match and the invisible score barely changes one way or the other, it's not really going to matter much after thousands of matches will it?
Similar to losing pips at rank 2. You lose them, but it's 1 match and it won't dictate your overall rank. If you play another match or two and gain those pips back then you're essentially at the same rank.
The numbers are going to be based off of all matches, not just the good and bad outliers.
How those numbers are gained and calculated is an important question to ask as well.
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@Hunkulese said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1041028#Comment_1041028
None of that's necessary either. All they really need to do is decide on a win condition. With enough games, you'll end up at a decently accurate number.
This is what everyone is missing.
There are only an infinite number of variables possible if a win condition for each side isn't clearly stated.
If the devs do this first and then build the system around that, taking different aspects of that win condition into account then the system might actually work.
If they don't create a clearly defined win condition then their system will fail.
I'm interested to see how this pans out.
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@Boosted_Dwight said:
Yeah I agree. I would like to see rating as well. I want to know if it's working or not instead of being left in the dark about it.
I might not be thinking about it hard enough, but I can't think of a good reason to keep a player's skill rating hidden from them and other people.
It's a good way for player to provide feedback for the skill rating and matchmaking at the same time. I'm rating 72 and was paired up with players who averaged 30 and my ranking is probably closer to 20 as an imaginary example.
It would also be really interesting to see how the rating is being calculated since it would clearly show what the devs believe to be "skillful" play is.
I understand the rank hiding at this point. It's really just a charm for the tally screen with no real meaning.
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They could use some new people with new ideas to shake things up in the balance and development teams.
They've mentioned how they didn't want to hire new people who didn't understand their process. This can also be interpreted as they don't want ideas that challenge their current plan.
The art team is amazing.
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The killer expects you to be toxic so they choose to tunnel and camp?
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@samination said:
Well, believe it or not but it's actually a good sign people are this angry and alarmist about the game as it means they like it a lot.
100%
I like to compare my attitude towards DbD to my favorite scene in Ratatouille.
https://youtu.be/yrT_am3rVzMI don't "like" dbd, I LOVE it.
Pray you don't disappoint me. lol
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@ClickyClicky said:
More clickbait capitalising on outrage.
If you listened to half of his ideas and put them into the game it would kill the game overnight. Some of them are so one sided survivors would stop playing altogether.
lol I'm glad you think so highly of my ideas that they would have such a big impact on the game.
Which ideas are you thinking of in particular?
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@AStupidDavid said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1030659#Comment_1030659
Risks like what though?
Imagine a weaker effect of the perk in question that afflicts the cleansing survivor for the remainder of the match.
Or bypass that penalty by sacrificing the use of a second chance perk they have available. ie Unbreakable becomes consumed when a live totem is cleansed (excluding Haunted Grounds)
They essentially "pay" for the Hex to be removed. Removing a killer perk by offering up their own to the Entity.
There are lots of things that "could" happen, but the end goal is to place Risk on the survivor's side as well as the killer's.
Balance.
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@AStupidDavid said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1030610#Comment_1030610
Oh, well it's actually not a bad idea I like how that sounds. That would balance hex perks a lot I think and wouldn't make them as unfair and useless as they currently are. So basically what you're saying is make it so that hex totems just kinda like boost the perk instead of being the perk.
Yes, but don't forget that I'd like some Risk to be placed on the cleansing survivor's shoulders at the same time.
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@Waffleyumboy said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1030610#Comment_1030610
I think this entire thread is really unnecessary. Devs are giving maps good totem spawns and hexes will be plenty strong once that is implemented.
Until spawns are memorized like they are now.
The spawns aren't the problem. It's another bandaid fix that is taking more effort and resources than it's worth.
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As weird as it sounds, my experience with Hag makes shocking with the Doc remarkably easy. Predicting their movements through loops and getting a feel for the timing.
The shock timing at loops and vaults is probably the hardest thing to get a handle on. When to use the Blast is just intuition and playstyle.
I really like him now. Although I need to play more matches against sweaty survivors to know for sure.
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@AStupidDavid said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/123743/revisiting-totem-risks-for-survivors
Perks like devour hope and noed would be stupidly overpowered though, however I have been thinking what if all totems were lit? You wouldn't be able to tell which ones are hex and which ones aren't, I think that if all totems were lit hex perks could last a little bit longer and force survivors to waste more time and balance the game a bit in the sense that yeah hex perks would still be able to be destroyed but survivors would have to waste time until they get the right totem. Just an idea
Devour Hope could be reduced to it's 2 token state which is near useless anyway. NoED is an outlier where you need to cleanse all 5 totems on the map in order to kill it. It's reduced effect could simply be the movement speed buff.
I'm not saying to keep the effect at 100% if it's cleansed, but just not reduced to 0.
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@AvisDeene said:
Survivors that cleans a lit totem should have a burn animation (their body would glow like a bright candle) for the rest of the match. They should look stick out like a sore thumb! Would be glorious.
Not sure if you were around for last year's Chinese new year with the lanterns that made Survivors sparkle. That might be an interesting thing.
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@ThisLadyRightHere said:
I like the old doctor better way much funnier and tolerable . The new doctor is highly annoying it’s just SKILL CHECK SNAP OUT OF IT SKILL CHECK REPEAT. Yeah No I strongly dislike this new doctor and I will be dodging him upon first sight of seeing him in match. He has now made it to my dislike killer list.
How will you dodge him if you're already in a match?
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It will be fixed just in time to be broken again when the next killer is released.
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@Lucama said:
It's funny to see people mentioning time off gens as a risk to survivors. As if gens don't go way too fast as it is. But I guess 6 minute games sit well with people.
Anyway, I doubt anything of the sort will occur. The devs mentioned making totems into a true secondary objective, so I suspect we'll see them being incentivised even more. And at that point why even bring a hex perk into the match. I don't think any hex perk is actually worth the risk right now. Not even NOED or Devour Soap. Ruin was worth it because it guaranteeded some value at least, NOED is actually a trap and Devour Soap at best gets you one insta down. But if it becomes a true secondary objective I'm actually willing to let Hex perks die for it.
I forgot about that point in the stream. I wonder if we'd ever see something like Fired Up where the perk is powered up as totems are cleansed. That might be interesting.
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@twistedmonkey said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1030299#Comment_1030299
Oh you can't get under skin its too thick. I just say how it is with these videos. I would never dream of trying to tell someone how to do a job they know far more about it than I but some are different I suppose.
You can say whatever you like, but making the post at all says otherwise lol.
@LordEmrich said:
I'm just upset you guise let Deathgarden die in favor of continuing to complain about and play the far less superior, Dead by Daylight.
You deprived me of ever getting to play it when it launched on Xbox. Now not only is Deathgarden no more but Dead by Daylight is probably gonna die, too. Thanks, guise!
The problem with Deathgarden was probably that it was impossible to balance. If a hunter had amazing aim they were unstoppable and then if their aim sucked (like mine) the game wasn't fun.
I honestly think it wasn't going to make it and I actually have the same feeling about the Predator game coming out. Aim is going to be a big deal and it might not be possible to balance well. I hope I'm wrong because I'm absolutely hoping it's done well.
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I'm actually in agreement.
I didn't like Doc before, but I ran him a few times playing with different stealthy builds and was pleasantly surprised.
I even did pretty well on Rotten Fields which was a big surprise.
I'm probably going to max out his perks and play him a bit more often this weekend.
As for suggestions. I'd say that you take what you have and see what you can come up with. Go in with a strategy and see how it plays out. That's what I'll be doing as I unlock perks for him.
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Ignore this advice. It will cause you great pain. It's better to not recover.
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@[Deleted User] said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1030299#Comment_1030299
I think you are in the ball bark on some things, it's just you don't seem to approach anything beyond a killer's point of view making it very hard to take much of what you say seriously. A lot of it is speculation and assumptions as well, but you put them forward as if they may be set in stone already.
I just don't agree with your points of view personally, you are certainly welcome to them though.
I completely understand that, but people are distracted by the fact that I'm a killer main and don't know about the survivor sided videos I've made in the past. Or at the very least, the ideas I've presented that do take the survivor side into account.
https://youtu.be/eGeoZHq1RwU@Waffleyumboy said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1030103#Comment_1030103
Damn I better subscribe with notifications on so I don't miss it!
Your life will improve by 10%. guaranteed.
**guarantees not guaranteed, consume coconut content with caution**
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@twistedmonkey said:
There is only one way to fix a meta and its to make those perks so bad no one uses them or rework other perks so they are more used. I thought that would be common sense.
I thought the meta is what people have wanted changed up? I could be wrong but I'm sure it's been mentioned quite a few times.
Remember its not the first time this has happened for either side.
I wouldn't put to much faith into a random person who makes videos for money as they will automatically jump in the latest bandwagon and say what they think some want to hear for views. The person in question doesn't play survivor and has admitted they have never made it past rank 15 for instance so they wont have an unbiased viewpoint.
Always remember these content creaters are not game developers and most don't have even a slight bit of knowledge about what goes on or what it entails to actually make a product. If they did they wouldn't be making videos afterall. They know as much about it as an average gamer does.
At the end of the day it's just speculation for views.
It's nice to know I've gotten under your skin to this degree for you to make assumptions about my motivations. I make enough from the videos to buy a nice dinner from McDonalds once a month... it's a good thing I have a real job lol
@GrootDude said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1030173#Comment_1030173
I find whispers pretty nice on any killer.
I agree, Whispers is good if you can 3k on a regular basis. It's not so good with all the survivors on the map still.
@[Deleted User] said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1030168#Comment_1030168
The dude hears one small indication that maybe something of a killer might be looked at and states It's totally getting nerfed, it's being ruined, it's over, and then they mention hey maybe we will look into toolboxes and he is like "Don't believe it, it's not going to be anything, it's a sham" the guy obviously has a very one track, killer only mindset.
Sure there are folks that are going to believe everything he says, but there are plenty far more experienced killer mains who are content producers, offering far more balanced insight than he is.
The toolbox thing is more of a prediction. I wish I could tag this for a reminder if they ever change toolboxes to see if I was accurate or way off.
All in all, I'm enjoying the infamy this style of video is creating. I suppose it'll continue when the subject matter warrants it.
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@Sylorknag said:
Thought you'd had been banned.
Into the topic, they won't change #########.
They have been "fixing" totem spawns for more then a year... And they still spawn right on the open field.
One more imagined slight by a sensitive forum goer and I will be.
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@Boss said:
Oblivious? 🤷♂️
They'd have to be extra vigilant and only the more confident survivors would take the risk. It'd be map dependent, but it could be enough.
I wouldn't like that stealth killers would be left out for the most part though.
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Debate:
Time not on gens: This risk is tied to playing the match, not specifically to totems. Survivors wander the map for the entirety of a match in search of gens and chests, in addition to totems. This risk is not enough to create a question of whether or not a survivor should cleanse a totem if they come across one. The goal is to create a risk/reward scenario when the totem can be cleansed by a survivor.
Haunted Grounds: This perk was created in the spirit of creating risk to totems due to the same comments being made on the steam forums, but using a perk to create risk for the use of another perk isn't a good design. I'd argue that its implementation was out of laziness rather than trying to solve the problem that still exists today.
Kicking gens: It is a punishment for a killer. It takes 2 seconds to kick a gen for a regression of 1/4 of the rate a survivor can progress the generator. In this time, survivors can move 8 m of distance which may be enough time to reach a pallet to extend a chase. Additionally, survivors can tap the gen without an action bar to take away the action of the killer before it has a chance to have an effect. This is another example of mechanical bias in the game where both sides should exert the same amount of effort for a similar action.
Suggestion:
To create a Risk / Reward situation for a single survivor they should be effected by the perk to a much lesser degree.
This creates a situation where a survivor finds a totem or spawns on one and has a choice. They can cleanse this unknown totem and be affected by a lesser version for the rest of the match, but removing the full effect for the rest of the team, or choose not to take the risk and leave it for other survivors to cleanse.
The details of the lesser versions of the perks are limitless so I won't bother trying to come up with them. Especially since the liklihood of this sort of thing happening is non-existent.
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They basically said since there's nothing you can do about those two generators on the far end of the map, just let them go.
Essentially giving yourself a 2 gen handicap giving yourself a 7 minute game with no hope of doing well without the survivors deliberately getting downed to farm points from each other.
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@Sonzaishinai said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1027419#Comment_1027419
I once knew a brother and sister that when they had to share a candy bar they got out a ruler to measure and made sure each got exactly the same amount
That's this community in a nutshell
Except all the chocolate is on one side of the candybar. The other half is made of poop.
lol
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@steezo_de said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1027419#Comment_1027419
Yeah, and I like that they're trying to get survivors to try something different than the regular meta. This isn't a good thing?
The statement about trying something new was actually directed at Killers in regards to talk about Ruin.
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@GrootDude said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1025941#Comment_1025941
And many players agree that killer is easy, your point? (I disagree with either being easy)
My point is at your direct statement about Hag being easy. You're deliberately misconstruing the context of the discussion.
I'll put it simply.
Survivor is easy because gens are easy to find and repair. They do not actively try to prevent survivors from repairing them. This makes gens easy to repair. Repairing gens is a survivor's primary objective. A survivor's primary objective is easy, which means the job of a survivor is easy.
Killer is not as easy because survivors can be difficult to find. They actively try to prevent killers from downing and sacrificing them. This makes hooking survivors more difficult than repairing generators. Sacrificing survivors is a killer's primary objective. A killer's primary objective is more difficult than a survivor's which means the job of a killer is more difficult than the job of a survivor.
Survivor is easier than Killer.
/thread
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Question "Are you looking to improve some of the weaker perks"
Answer "Yes, I have a list here"
Small game
Cruel Limits
Any means necessary
Slippery Meat
Vigil
This is not happening
Technician
How many survivor perks and how many killer perks were on his list?
Yes, there is a Survivor bias.
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@GrootDude said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1025732#Comment_1025732
Dead by Daylight isn’t real life, I can observe killers or post a game where I double pipped as killer at red ranks and I’d be able to say it’s easy apparently. I could also observe hag players and say she needs nerfed even if I don’t play her often, see the problem?
DbD being a game is irrelevant to the ability to observe behavior.
You could observe the things you mentioned, but the difference between your examples and my statements are that my statements are backed by similar statements in the forums which can be searched for.
While anecdotal, they are concerns that are echoed throughout the forums and gives credence to the statement.
Playing as a Survivor is easy and many players agree.
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@GrootDude said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1025580#Comment_1025580
You don’t play at any rank over 15 as survivor, you aren’t really qualified to make that statement.
Biologists are human. They aren't any other animal, and yet they've studied other animals enough to make various statements about them.
I don't have to play survivor at various ranks to say that they're easy to play. I've been observing them for 3 years.
Their gameplay loop is very simple.
Do gens, hit skill checks. Is that easy? Yes.
If they're being chased, they run to safe places on the map. Primarily pallets. Is that easy? It depends on the skill of the opponent whether or not they can accomplish the task, but the task is easy in and of itself.
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It's funny that you folks think the changes will be significant.
What have we learned from the past?
They're going to lose 5% of their overall effectiveness and still be powerful. /prediction
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@Goat_Worship said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1025488#Comment_1025488
It should be though. The game should be balanced around solo Q survivors.
Deathgarden was balanced around a 5 man on comms, and the killer was so overpowered they completely stomped the solo Q's and the game died off before it really had a chance to improve.
Deathgarden also didn't take into account how a player with excellent aim would dominate the runners. Balancing around that is impossible.
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@GrootDude said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1025488#Comment_1025488
So you had one game at rank 20, if a killer at rank 20 gets a 4K then does that make killer too easy?
Yes it does. Killer at Rank 20 is easy.
Survivor is easy at all ranks.
Killer is more difficult at higher ranks.
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https://youtu.be/GNVu8Wjsg6A@GrootDude said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1025110#Comment_1025110
Don’t you rarely ever play survivor? You can’t really call something easy without experiencing that thing enough.
The game is balanced for survivors like myself. Low ranks.
And it's easy.
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Somebody's salty they didn't get escape.
It's really easy now so you just need practice.
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@Almo said:
I checked, and there is a definite correlation between rank difference (between Survivor and Killer) and the Survivor's chance of escape. As the gap between their ranks increases, the Survivor is much less likely to escape.
I'm not saying the rank system is perfect; we're working on it. But it's not completely useless. :)
This is completely true...but a little misleading.
What's misleading is that Rank doesn't measure skill.
The number of lesser skilled survivors are (probably) making it to red ranks. This is going to skew the data you use for "balancing" at those ranks... which I'm starting to think is deliberate.
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Not at all, but it's going to be interesting to see when and IF the devs change things to make the matches more than just 3 minute gen repairs.
To see what they change to give killers more influence on the time a match takes.
We'll see what happens.
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Only if you like the stuff offered and can complete it.
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I would suggest purchasing it when you have it completed. The rewards are given retroactively so you won't miss out on anything.
If something comes up that causes you to not be able to complete the rift you won't waste your money on it.
Just a bit of advice.
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@Peanits said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1021607#Comment_1021607
Yes. Again, there are other factors that go into it, and we don't balance based around those numbers alone. There's some good Pig players out there who use her power very effectively as is.
There are good killer players for every killer.
I think the focus of this post is how The Pig feels to play and how many aspects of playing her feel deliberately throttled to artificially create the 2k2e balance the devs tout.
Warning survivors of an "ambush" attack and traps that are too easily removed make her feel weak to play which is where much of the calls for balance stem from.
Every killer is deliberately throttled in ways to make them frustrating to play while survivors are given multiple ways to escape tactics that killers use to get around those frustrating mechanics.
It comes down to how it feels to play these killers... not what their numbers look like.
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@Peanits said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1021420#Comment_1021420
She does well in red ranks as well. We released stats for all killers a little while ago, if you'd like to take a look: https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/106566/
"Please keep in mind that numbers are not everything; there are a whole bunch of factors that could influence these numbers."