Skitten56
Skitten56
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I'm glad you have been enjoying the rework but I personally found the rework to be an utter failure. She just bullies pub matches and soloq hard while performing arguably worse against skilled teams. On top of all that, I find her new playstyle and mechanics incredibly boring compared to her old kit.
I personally am very happy they have announced they intend to go back to something closer to her old kit. I do hope they either buff condemn a bit or make the old Iri-tape part basekit because otherwise she can be very add-on reliant which is a shame.
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@pizzavessel15 said:
shes stronger now and survivors are complaining, crying, and claiming theyre "sadako mains" because they cannot accept when a killer goes from borderline useless to A tier. The sad thing is (but not surprising thing) bhvr is believing and giving into it which is why theyre going to flat out gut her soon and put her back to absolute trash. I dont see people complaining about oni when not only does his power heavily rely on slugging but he can end the game literally within a minute of activating his power
If you thought old Sadako was "borderline useless" you were not playing her properly. She was actually a decently strong killer in the right hands. I am a Sadako main and I am 100% fine with BHVR just reverting all the changes and going back to her original kit because I would honestly see it as a buff. The only thing her current rework has going for it is the ability to pub stomp which is boring. I find her to be much less fun and imo arguably weaker against skilled swf.
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A Repressed Alliance buff would be very nice for survivors given the Pain Res Pop meta we seem to be in atm. These are of course healthy regression perks that reward hooking but they can be very brutal and it would be nice for survivors to have a decent counter to it if they want to bring it.
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Overall I think the event was fun and enjoyable but it could definitely use a few changes to make it more interactive and less stale as time went on. Usually players only really have fun with the event the first few days and then its back to playing as usual. This means that anyone who just wants to have fun with the event still feels pressure to play as usual to not throw the game as survivors or make the game boring for survivors who might want to play normally. I think the suggestion in the survey about separate event queues might be a good idea to help with this. Maybe have it active only the first week and then every other day to help with queue times or only if x amount of players are online if it becomes a problem.
These are the main things I think regarding this event though:
I think for event items like snowballs that have practically no effect on regular gameplay, obtaining them also shouldn't have impact on gameplay. That way people can still have fun with them without feeling like they are throwing the game just by engaging with it. I would make it so survivors & killers could carry many more snowballs and have the pickup time be faster.
Snowmen are fun but the noise notifications punish players for trying to use them when generally using them is already punishing. I do like how they can be used to try and hide from the killers or used by the killer to try and surprise survivors. This year it is more difficult for such things though since it is easy to get kicked out if anyone has a snowball.
For events in general:
I love gameplay changing events like this years anniversary and Halloween events. The anniversary event added new ways that survivors and killers could interact with each other that made gameplay interesting and allowed for new tactics and ways to use perks. As a result it was very engaging. The Halloween event added a new location and ways to store haste speed boosts on the map to use if needed. The new map zone was especially interesting but it could be used for survivors to quickly travel across large maps if they could remember which portals went where. Similarly killers could also use this new map zone to quickly traverse the map and also as a way to try and sneak up on survivors.
I also enjoy the little fun things like the fireworks for the new years event and stuff like snowmen and snowballs. I also enjoy event items even if they seem silly like toolboxes that explode into fireworks or the firecrackers or party starters for their nice visual effects.
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I agree that the rework is also terrible but I don't think lockers would have been the best solution. They should have just made it so lock-on and tracking did not buildup/apply when working on gens or when the drone was within the radius of a gen.
Unfortunately we are here with this current rework. An easy fix to save it or make it bearable imo is to just either reduce the radius that the drones cover so they are not as oppressive, or make it so drones cannot overlap. Right now it is way too easy for SM to just make a whole section of the map a drone chase kill zone that injures or gives haste.
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@GravelordNito99 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3613147#Comment_3613147
It isn't a matter of discussion. Winning is more fun than losing, objectively. Having variety in your life is more exciting than repetition. Neither of these things are in contention, and you therefore have no way to "disagree" with me. Anything else you said was already forefeit.
Posts thread on discussion forum. Responds to discussion by saying it isn't a matter of discussion. Apparently it seems holding a different opinion means I automatically forfeit my position.
If this is how you approach discussions then I guess you are correct that it isn't a matter of discussion. You position was clearly objective fact and there can be no debate on this matter. Everyone who spent time to read and respond to you and this thread was wasting their time because you already have all the answers and the objective truth about this game. In fact you wasted your own time. Why make a post on a forum over a topic that is indisputable and objective fact?
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I strongly disagree with OP. I think the MMR changes have made playing killer much more fun. All the matches for me have been a lot better recently. The games have been much closer, more competitive and more enjoyable. The amount of games where I get paired against survivors clearly outside my level have gone down a lot which is great. There is nothing enjoyable about destroying a team in a pub match at 5 gens left.
it seems a lot of killers simply love to play sweaty as possible but hate to actually go against sweaty survivors in return. If you played to win and play well, then its only natural you should go against people at your skill level who aim to do the same. This is MMR working as intended.
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The feature is perfectly fine and good. Sure some toxic people might hide behind it but they could still do the same things even without it, and likely would. Also you can still send reports to BHVR is an anonymous player is cheating or anything. I don't see why people find this feature to be a problem. DBD can be such a toxic game sometimes even if you are just playing normally and trying to have fun. Anonymous mode helps protect oneself from such people.
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@pizzavessel15 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3608580#Comment_3608580
condeming through local was trash due to how easy it was to get rid of all of it. it was effectively useless unless youre playing in a condem playstyle
A ability that lets you take survivors out of the game without ever hooking them should be challenging to pull off. Of course it makes sense that it is only going to be a threat for those who lean into it with a condemn playstyle. We saw what happened when they tried to make condemn easy to use with any playstyle with the current rework. I don't know if you noticed but its simply awful. Its easy wins for much less fun and enjoyment.
Condemn should take skill and effort to build up. I don't think they need to use the same exact old model though. i think buffing the range of which condemn is gained upon Projection would be a nice buff. That or increasing the stacks when within rage. If you are concerned it is too easy to remove then why not have it make fully condemn survivors exposed so they can't unload tapes in the killers face.
There are many simple solutions to make condemn a viable but balanced and rewarding threat by making use of her old kit.
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Not all killers need to work the same way. Chucky has the benefits of having stuff like a 3rd person POV so having weaker flick power than some other killers for balance reasons isn't that crazy or anything.
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@jonifire said:
I really hope the old one with no cooldows comes back, because that was why I played her and loved her.
My ideas: (I focus on her old version)
Tvs
- Very short to no cooldowns so people if they want to take your ability away to be everywhere instantly they have to take a tape
- TVs also have a area around them where you get condemned (when on) just by being close and looking at the clip on the Tv you get more passive condemned
Tp
- no 10s cooldown, instead only the time you need to change the mode to allow her fast mobility again, which was the coolest thing
- speed boost after crawling out of the tv
- looking around while crawling out of an tv to have a better orientation in chase
- the radius close to the tvs which give you condemned gets increased and splitted in three parts. First radius around the TVs from before her rework 0,5 stacks, in the radius before her rework 1 stack and close to the TVs 2 stacks. So that you would be rewarded to chase survivors into TVs.
- condemned should be applied as you are crawling out of the tv instead of after you crawled out of the tv
- all areas (12-16) around TVs give 1 stack condemned (maybe only as addon)
Demanifast/Manifast
- Faster switch between both forms
- more lagging and glitching around, so that survivors have a harder time tracking you
- pallet immunity like now
- chase count as chases in demanifast
- The demanifast glitching should stay longer after switching
- I would also like her terror radius to return in demanifasted mode so people would be scared and run into me, because they don‘t know from where I come. As I started playing against her I did that quite often. I heard the terror radius, then I started to run and she just appeared out of nowhere in front of me.
Tapes
- I would want the tapes to be like before the rework, because in the current form I don‘t like that people switch off TVs only to counter condemned. If it was willingly it would be fine, but so I hate it.
- With short-no TV cooldown you have to pick one up, otherwise she can tp around all the time. So the tv shuts down for 50-70s after taking one.
- Also with the tapes you don‘t get the passive condemned from being close to the Tv. Instead the tape gives you condemned by holding it.
- After putting it back in the tv you lose stacks of condemned
- you only have one tv to put the tape like before
She shouldn’t have her lullaby shown in the visual heartbeat. Maybe it‘s only me, but I can hear and don‘t hear her lullaby and so I see it in the visuel heartbeat -> ah there is something and know she is there.
I copied and changed some parts from my former post.
I really like your suggestions a lot as well. I really hope BHVR will consider these when they decide to rework her.
I do wonder how she would play with a long TV cooldown when survivors take tapes but virtually no cooldown when she Projects to them herself. I am a big fan of them returning tapes to how they used to work in general.
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@ChaosWam said:
These are pretty good suggestions, I especially like the Iri Remote one. Both pre and post rework Sadako's Iri Remote was... Not useful.
The old Remote Control add-on was horrible for an Iri but I actually like the current Remote Control. It no longer has the carrying tape requirement so it can actually provide some really good info with its aura reading. I think a slight range increase to like 16 meters would be nice though. I really hope they either keep it as is or improve upon it. Going back to the old Remote Control would just be so unfortunate.
I'm also concerned about what they have in store for the Iri-tape add-on. Its current form should definitely go back to being basekit. If they don't restore the old Iri-tape though they have to keep the reduced TV cool-down times and remove the 10sec cool-down between teleports. Otherwise her mobility will still suffer and not have the condemn slowdown to make up for it.
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@Alen_Starkly said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3607698#Comment_3607698
I wrote in my post that I played as her. This whole post has spawned mostly from me playing as her, not against her. And it's not that we want her to be reverted to state where she depended on an iri addon. We want her to be both more fun for survivors (incentives to hook, rather than just slug, survivors hate being slugged non-stop;; strategical condemning, rather than map-wide), and more fun to play as (strategical condemning that requires planning and skill).
As an Onryo main I'm 100% with you. Condemn needs to take skill again but they shouldn't go completely back to pre-rework where the TV times are so long that you pretty much have to run Iri-tape. I think there is just a portion of new Onryo players that enjoy the easy soloq wins and don't want to spend the time to become skilled at Onryo in her old form, even though pre-rework Onryo was super fun and rewarding compared to this horrible rework.
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@EvilSerje said:
Before update, the only things she was needed were Iri tape basekit, Newspaper basekit, remove lullaby and Drawing basekit + triggering on healing progress, not health state. That's it. I don't know why they tried the whole overhaul, that, I'm afraid, they'll nerf back. Don't harass Sadako!
Iri-tape basekit might be too strong but I would like to see it comes back or at least part of it be made basekit. Newspaper either fully or partially basekit would be great. Lullaby should stay imo but their should be an add-on to modify its range or remove it.
I really hope they do her right this time and just give minor but noticeable buffs to her old kit without completely changing how her old kit played. She was so close to being perfect pre-rework in terms of gameplay as well as being accurate to the lore. A few QoL changes to her old kit like the ones I suggested would do wonders for her and go a long way.
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@Archol123 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3607341#Comment_3607341
Even with those changes you could still focus on one guy as soon as he gets a tape, figure out where he needs to put it and prevent him from ever doing so, which is always a horrible experience to go against I don't think it is a good gameplay mechanic at all.
There was a lot of counterplay involved in that and good teammates could get a safe tape drop off. It had a lot better and more interesting counterplay than the current rework for sure.
If they kept condemn (which the should and will), they will almost certainly keep tapes as a mechanic to remove condemn. As long as there are tapes there will be ways for Onryo players to try and interrupt their tape drop offs. That is the meaning of curse tapes. You either deal with it in time or die. In my opinion the old system of tapes was far superior, more interactive, and more balanced overall than how they function in the rework.
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@Archol123 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/400008/my-onryo-rework-change-wishlist
And what prevents the same annoying condemn playstyle people always played with her in this particular version of sadako? As far as I know that was the reason she got reworked the first time...
Keeping the Ring Drawing nerf is what gets rid of the annoying condemn playstyle. The biggest issue with Onryo is when her kit encourages slugging. This is because condemn allows her to win without ever hooking anyone so slugging becomes an easy sort of slowdown under such circumstances.
As long as Onryo has condemn as a mechanic, there will be condemn playstyles. If you mean annoying condemn playstyles as in try to get condemn kills, then we will have to agree to disagree since I consider it a core part of her kit. I just want condemn to take skill again and be rewarding for the skill. Going back to a proximity based system without the Ring Drawing add-on adding condemn upon recovering teammates would help a lot towards this end.
My suggested changes would allow condemn playstyles to still exist but not be horribly oppressive to soloq like they are currently, or encourage the old slugging of the pre-rework era with Ring Drawing. I will concede though that maybe adding a condemn stack upon hooking might not be a bad idea to further encourage hooking over slugging.
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Revert all the changes, but keep the Ring Drawing nerf and the reduced TV cool-downs so she isn't so Iri-tape add-on reliant. Buff her proximity condemn a bit more to like 20 meters or maybe 1.5 stacks when within range and she would be fine. She would be capable of good mobility all around while also able to deal out condemned when played skillfully.
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They should either slightly increase the blind duration (2 or 2.5 seconds) or make it activate on every stun/blind. Right now it just isn't worth bringing aside from the meme value.
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These would be excellent changes.
I do agree with you strongly that people say Singularity is much worse than they actually are. Singularity is just difficult and takes time to learn. However your suggested changes would be very nice QoL changes to make them feel better to play for many.
I do hope BHVR will consider your post.
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@ChaosWam said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3596889#Comment_3596889
The problem with pre-rework condemned is it was too easy to avoid in general. Unless you're caught off guard constantly by teleports, you could run outside the condemned teleport when you know Sadako teleported near you and avoid tapes entirely. And on the off chance you get condemned built up, the match is halfway over or more and the tape can be exchanged quickly and even in your face unless you have STBFL stacks, making STBFL almost required for those moments.
I'll still die on the hill that the best thing about current Sadako is it makes condemned more of a present thing than before and promotes interactivity with her power, but we need a good middle ground altogether so it's not too strong and not too absent.
"The problem with pre-rework condemned is it was too easy to avoid in general."
I agree which is why I think they should increase the range or the amount of stacks given if they do go back to a pre-rework style Onryo. It wouldn't need to be might since a good Onryo going for condemn will run old Iri-tape and can apply a good amount of stacks just by teleporting. Just a nice little buff is all we need plus a bit extra to make up for the Ring Drawing nerf.
"the tape can be exchanged quickly and even in your face"
I think they should rework the Iri-Remote Control add-on and have its new effect be to make survivors exposed when they are fully condemned. This would be a great assist to stopping those in face tape drop offs we had before.
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@Dontyodelsohard said:
Here is my ideal as someone who dumped Sadako after the rework:
1. Keep global condemned; however, reduce the stack to 0.5 but if a survivor is within 16m of a TV, increase the condemned gained by 0.5.
2. Untether the teleport from the CD, the CD is now just for global condemn (still get half a stack if in the radius... A strong maybe here).
3. Differentiate the HUD flash from global and local condemn gain so it can be used as tracking.
4. And basically the other stuff you said... Especially Reiko's Watch... I just started picking it up when the rework was announced. Also, I hate that it is exactly the same as the brown add-on.
But that's just me... I want a bit of old and new, just the better portions of each.
I think your suggestions are decent. I would say that I would want old Iri-tape to come back in some form, ideally with part of it being made basekit so she doesn't have to be so add-on reliant.
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I would be so happy if they just reverted all the rework changes and only kept a few such as the shorter TV cool-downs and the Ring Drawing nerf. The anti-stun while demanifested is a nice gimmick and I think it should stay as well.
Making old Iri-tape part basekit or buffing the range in which condemn is applied upon Projection would be nice too.
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@TheArbiter said:
The problem with Onryo seems to be they have no idea how to make her insta kill balanced, either You get condemn stacks too quickly, like how it is now, or you never even get stacks, like how it was before
In my opinion condemn was actually pretty balanced pre-rework, it just needed some slight tweaking. You had to work hard for it sure, but an mechanic that lets you take a survivor instantly out of the game without hooking should be challenging.
Pre-rework the best way to get stacks was to run Iri-tape and constantly harass survivors on gens or mid-chase with teleporting. There was also the dreaded slug aspect to it.
I think it would be great if they got rid of most of the rework and keep the Ring Drawing nerf but also keep the shorter TV cool-downs. They should also either increase the range of which stacks would apply or increase the amount. This would allow Onryo to build up condemn easier without it being unfun for the survivors.
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@ProfessorDunwich said:
Skull Merchant is on their 2nd rework, still a disaster. Onryo is about to get their 2nd rework after a failed 1st and initial design. Track record isn’t promising for the upcoming Killer changes.
Agreed. Everytime they announce a rework I get worried. People enjoy the killers they play as they are. They like the mechanics involved, and usually just want slight tweaks and QoL changes to make them more fun and enjoyable
BHVR should avoid major reworks whenever possible and only focus on small numbers tweaks to improve/ balance them. No one likes it when their favourite killer is suddenly a different killer overnight.
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@Zokenay said:
That matches have been nothing short of awful, gens getting completed absurdly fast, one chase and i basically lost 3 gens already...
At this point the game is telling me to go with the most tryhard killer and builds to even compete, its not fun.
Might need to give it time for your MMR to adjust back down then. Iirc its quick to go up but slower to go down. If you keep getting games like that and losing them, eventually it should work itself ideally to a proper level for you.
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I've noticed much more balanced and fair games personally. The matches were one side gets completely destroyed has gone down a lot for me. In that sense I'm enjoying the change but thats just my personal experience with it.
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@[Deleted User] said:
Sort of wondering if BHVR would have an easier time with The Pig's traps if they were reworked to be on a stack system, rather than a timer (sort of like The Onryo).
Given how they handled Onryo's rework, I'd rather BHVR keep their hands off Pig. They'll likely end up taking all the fun out of playing her like they did with Onryo.
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@[Deleted User] said:
Only thing I can comment on is the mmr softcap raise isn't to be more competitive. It was changed to keep the newer less experienced players more separate from the experienced players.
Using your word it's hard to learn the game when your constantly routed against people who have played much longer and know the game inside out.
Now Killers that play to win have to play against survivors who play to win.
Exactly. Killers that play to win will get survivors who play to win. With this new MMR how hard both sides try/sweat to get wins should match up a lot more often. It is also good that it keeps newer survivors who will struggle the most away from more experienced killers. I see the MMR changes as a great thing for dbd and have personally noticed my matches are more close and fun now when I play both sides.
My advice for OP is to just let the MMR readjust itself a bit. If you play for 12 hooks and fun without sweating for the 4k things will be fine. However if you keep upping your game to ensure you get a 3-4k its only natural the game will keep putting you against better survivors, as consistently winning should. If you want to play chill and have more chill games then don't sweat so hard in the end game to ensure you get a 3-4k by slugging, tunneling, etc. You lose a game with a 0-2k occasionally by continuing to play chill without pulling out all the stops and the MMR will do the work.
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@JPLongstreet said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3594565#Comment_3594565
Maybe your idea is worth testing, not sure. But my beloved Piggy is already a noob stomper, and doubling down on that with a return to Skill Check interactions that rookies already struggle with might make things worse overall. Getting new players better at this game shouldn't feel as bad as it currently does in DBD, let alone worse. Hard to balance that.
Surprised to hear Pig is a noob stomper tbh. The game is complex and very hard on new players certainly. However this isn't really a thing the devs can fix, especially as more and more killers and perks get added to the game increasing its complexity. Its rough for them but I think they just need to learn that skill check builds exist if dbd did re-add the ability for such perks to affect her boxes. If progress is saved, it wouldn't really affect the survivors much. It would just waste some time and give the Pig info on where they are.
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@JPLongstreet said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3594399#Comment_3594399
I think that's the point, that against solos who cannot coordinate 99ing gens and the like, that this particular setup is not good. I'd agree that search progress needs to be saved, similarly to how Madness works with Doctor. Just that change, and this problem goes away.
I would be fine with search progress getting saved but if they do that then skill check modifying perks should work with the boxes again to help balance it out a bit and add some extra spice to Pig.
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@OnryosTapeRentals said:
Hawkins should never have been re-enabled prior to a proper rework. It was made for the game as it was four years ago.
Much has changed since then, and it’s current design is outdated and represents everything people hate about indoor maps.
Hawkins is fine for the most part. They just need to make the disallowed placement radius of turrets smaller for Xeno as well as fix a few interactions with some newer killers like Singularity.
Many people just hate indoor maps in general regardless of whether it is balanced or not. This doesn't mean every indoor map is bad though, just different.
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Buckle Up should only give endurance to the person who does the pickup. That way survivors will have to dedicate a hefty 3 perks and use WGLF in order to have a protected FtP rescue build. Without all those perks killers can then reasonably expect to just hit the person who just got up safely unless the survivor fully commits to the build.
I think this is fairly balanced because again, uses up 3 valuable survivor perk slots. Also the fact that WGLF has activation conditions so they don't just get it for free and instead have to work for it.
This compromise allows altruistic players to still enjoy FTP combinations but making them invest/work for it a lot more, while not punishing the killer too much and giving them better options in many cases.
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The counter is don't finish gens when people have hats and do the totem. Its a m1 killer. Just play it safe and against any somewhat coordinated team the perk isn't an issue.
Ultimate Weapon is a much bigger problem of a perk than Face the Darkness anyways.
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@adsads123123123123 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3592079#Comment_3592079
I mained old and new Onyro and that's my opinion. I just posted Otz's stream since you're obviously not going to believe me without proof.
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3592080#Comment_3592080
99% of the community thought that Condemn was the only only viable build on pre-rework Sadako, including Otz who attempted win streaks on both of them. Regardless, Otz already proved current Onyro can do well without slugging, tp spamming, and Iri tape. I suggest you practice her more if you think otherwise.
Current Onryo can do well. But she is weaker, not weak, against coordinated teams than before. I assure you have have plenty of practice with her. Pre-rework I ran hook builds and used her teleport aggressively to in matches consistently win. If you had good game sense she was a serious threat due to her strong macro play. You didn't need to go down the route of force condemn slugging route unless you happened to go against comp level players. She had more playstyles than now that worked just fine for standard pub matches, not just a single viable build.
My biggest complain with current Onryo isn't that she is weak, it is that she is incredibly boring to play compared to old Onryo. And even if post-rework Onryo was stronger, I'd rather play a more fun and enjoyable weaker killer than the snooze-fest that is current Onryo by comparison. I play the game to have fun, not teleport spam every 10 seconds while managing survivor tapes like its a daycare. Her old playstyle of actually doing hit and run chases was much more fun than this. Not to mention having a cursed tape took actual interaction and skill from both sides with interesting counterplay compared to what we have now.
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@jonifire said:
@Skitten56, which parts of the new Onryo would like to stay if she gets her old version back.
I personally like that you are able to go threw survivors, when in her mode.
I would keep the change where she can't be pallet stunned while demanifested. It is a very weak change that doesn't add much but it is a nice complement thematically and does have niche uses.
I would keep the Ring Drawing add-on nerf to discourage slugging and encourage hookplay.
I would also keep the shorter TV cool-down times to make her less reliant on the old Iri-tape. Then probably nerf the old Iri-tape add-on and bake some of it into basekit.
I think she was a fine killer overall before reworks and just needed some small quality of life tweaks and changes. Not this rework which sucked all the fun out of playing her.
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@jonifire said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3591750#Comment_3591750
The whole thing, which made her fun for me is the teleportation, not the condemned part.
And what’s the catch in having the tape as counter to the condemned, when it also counters her teleport. It should only counter one aspect.
In my opinion the fast teleport made the character, what she was and now she has slower tp and no TVs available.
Also it‘s no good slow down if you don‘t use the iri addon. Then they just run two meters and they aren‘t condemned anymore.
The killer isn‘t good if you don’t want to play in any other way than spamming condemned, which isn‘t fun to play as and against.
The fact that countering her condemn shuts down her TV map presence is brutal against coordinated teams. This is what forces all Onryos to spam teleport or basically throw games. And if you are not using the Iri-tape add-on, she just has horrible slowdown and survivors can freely shutdown her power. She is more reliant on add-ons than she ever was before.
As you said, she just isn't good right now unless you spam teleport and tunnel people with tapes which is just boring. I really hate for the rework basically forces us to play her by mindlessly spamming teleport and punishes us for doing anything else. I had multiple viable builds for her pre-rework but now its basically condemn teleport spam.
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@adsads123123123123 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3591993#Comment_3591993
"Pre-rework you could tryout a number of fun builds and playstlyes and still be successful with her. Now if you do anything but a full condemn build you are pretty much screwing yourself against any decent players. This is bad for Onryo and makes her a much less interesting killer."
It's the opposite. The only build that was viable before was Condemn slugging. Now you can play Onyro normally if you want. Otz got a 40 win streak with Onyro without slugging and said it was very easy. Current Onyro is healthier and far more versatile.
I'm sorry you feel that way but I was able to consistently win games with her without slugging at all or playing for condemn. If you were skilled enough with her you can take advantage of her great macro play and could use her TVs to have great map presence.
If you thought slugging was the only viable way to play her before, you probably only did it because it was the easier for you.
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@Dontyodelsohard said:
I hate new Onryo but not on a power level... In fact, I feel she is undeniably better now than before.
My problem is a lot of skill expression was lost in the killer.
Before, you had to corral survivors into TVs to get Condemned stacks or use your game sense to guess where survivors are... Now you just teleport as long as the cooldown is up. Additionally, now the condemn indicator can't be used as tracking.
A further thing, the cooldown takes managing TVs out of your hands. I suppose it does make it more punishing if you teleport to the wrong TV... But isn't losing an extra TV punishment enough?
Then they nerfed her Passive Phasing add-on which was a unique chase power... And I guess replaced it with the lackluster power to not get stunned while Demanifested.
Finally, on the survivor's side: taking a tape is now objectively the better choice. No longer is it a risk/reward scenario... It is just her counter. The cursed tape counters her curse... Not spreading her message through TVs, holding on to it.
I was nearly a full-blown Onryo main before the rework... But I can't bring myself to play her now outside of daily rituals.
The loss of skill expression really makes her boring to me. It used to be incredibly fun to play her even when I would lose matches. Now it feels boring to play her even when I win matches.
"Then they nerfed her Passive Phasing add-on which was a unique chase power... And I guess replaced it with the lackluster power to not get stunned while Demanifested."
This add-on change made no sense and further ruined the fun of engaging in chases with her.
Finally, on the survivor's side: taking a tape is now objectively the better choice. No longer is it a risk/reward scenario... It is just her counter. The cursed tape counters her curse... Not spreading her message through TVs, holding on to it.
I really disliked this change as well. It goes against the source material and feels odd. It also means that her mobility suffers greatly compared to pre-rework due to survivors always turning off TVs now without the condemn risk they used to have pre-rework. Pre-rework survivors were punished for interacting with cursed tapes and being near Onryo. Now they are rewarded for taking cursed tapes. It is a unfortunate aspect of the rework. Cursed tapes aren't even cursed anymore.
I was nearly a full-blown Onryo main before the rework... But I can't bring myself to play her now outside of daily rituals.
Same. I used to play her in like 80% of my killer games. Now it is maybe 5% because it just isn't enjoyable anymore. I don't care that she is stronger now in the average game, she just isn't fun to play due to the rework changes.
I really hope BHVR will just drop the rework or at least change some add-ons to make her function more like she used to for those of us how enjoyed her fluid teleportation gameplay.
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She is worse against coordinated teams but destroys soloq. Her current state is unhealthy for the game. Even worse is that she is just so much less fun to play now compared to before, for both sides.
Pre-rework it was a blast to use TVs as a strategic tool either mid-chase to catch survivors off guard or to surprise them at gens. Now with the rework we pretty much are forced to just mindlessly teleport to build condemn. TVs are pretty much never turned on in key areas now due to survivors always doing tape runs and you are pretty much forced to use the Iri-tape add-on to even stay competitive.
Pre-rework you could tryout a number of fun builds and playstlyes and still be successful with her. Now if you do anything but a full condemn build you are pretty much screwing yourself against any decent players. This is bad for Onryo and makes her a much less interesting killer.
In order to make her fun to play again they need to just undo the rework and focus on making her teleport play more fun, not nerfing it by giving it double cool-downs and having TVs be off all the time. Survivors hated getting focused down by condemn to be removed from the game so it baffles me why BHVR made the whole rework focused on it at the expense of the rest of her abilities.
In my opinion the Onryo rework is one of the worst changes they made to the game. It significantly makes her less fun and more boring to play. BHVR took a fast paced interesting killer who felt very rewarding to use when skilled with her, and turned they into a killer who is utterly boring to play and feels like easy wins most of the time unless its a swf game. Swf game are just frustrating now because I know that pre-rework I would have been able to be competitive by using her teleport mobility to keep up unlike now.
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@Annso_x said:
It seems I've finally lost all hope in the devs and the future of the game.
I've barely touched the survivor role for a hot while because solo q is a pain, and to no one's surprise nothing is done or even planned to improve things.
On the other hand killer will be in the best spot it's ever been when the MFT murder comes through, and I'm already bored after three games because it's literally just free 4k after 4k (and I'm not even that good).
Anyways, yes MFT deserved a nerf but BHVR proved once again they can only produce either busted or useless perks.
BHVR still stands by the calm spirit and pharmacy "buffs", there's better chances of Pig and Billy being nerfed than Blight (who of course will stay untouched for an other six months at least), and all the "map balance changes" do is adding a bunch of unsafe pallets everywhere because the devs apparently think it's peak gameplay when both sides dislike it. Chapters are not worth buying because the perks are either already bad or they're way too good and will nerfed to the ground anyway, and the whole cosmetics FOMO thing is tiring.
Finally, that trickster buff. I have no doubt it will be changed before it goes live but just the fact that it was planned, made and approved before being presented as "we know survivors think he's annoying so we've made him a whole lot worse" did it.
That was the last nail in the coffin. Just the fact that the devs think it's fine and worth testing made me realise I've given them too much credit and maybe the people who claim BHVR barely understands their own game were onto something.
In any case, I'm playing Demo and Dredge until I finish the rift and will uninstall the game when it's done. I also won't come back here, so good luck to everyone (especially the mods). Don't forget to have a bit of fun.
"we know survivors think he's annoying so we've made him a whole lot worse" did it."
Pretty much what they did with Onryo as well. People hated getting slugged and getting focused condemn causing them to be removed from the trial without getting hooked. So they made the entire rework focusing on condemn and making the only real viable way to play her now to focus condemn and remove survivors without hooking. Her power is a lot more unintuitive for players as well and just leaves to easy wins for her. Meanwhile her lack of teleport mobility for the nerfs makes it harder for her to keep up against skilled swf.
Even worse is they made Onryo much less fun to play in the process. Onryo used to have a lot of fun teleport gameplay but they nerfed the fun quick teleports all Onryo players enjoyed to buff the condemn. Us Onryo mains just wanted quicker TV cool-downs, not this mess of a rework.
Simply put, Onryo's rework design is just appallingly bad and unhealthy for the game and it seems they are continuing this trend. The game should be fun for both sides BHVR, but what they make sometimes is not fun for either side unfortunately.
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I think the best solution to fix buckle up is to only give it endurance to the person who recovers a survivor out of a dying state, not to both.
I believe this is a good solution for everyone as you would need to run Buckle Up, FTP and We're Gonna Live Forever to get instant FTP revives. Spending 3 perk slots is reasonable to me to get such an ability. Also it is important to note that WGLF requires activation conditions so it will actually have to be set up each time. This makes it less easy to abuse and will make it so you can't get endurance protected revives at the start of game or at first down.
This solution lets altruistic survivors still be able to have their fun but at a heavy perk slot price. Meanwhile killers won't have to worry about it being abused as much anymore given the activation conditions.
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I don't use the hair but I love the rest of the set.
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As a person who mainly plays killer I actually agree with you. Definitely could be a bit faster.
For example, I had a match yesterday where no one went to save this poor Nea on hook and she hit stage two. I was annoyed with the survivors at that point so I was like, "I'll do it myself" and went to the hook to facecamp them so they could be saved by me instead since their team clearly wasn't going to do it. She ended up dying on hook anyways even though I got there somewhat quickly into stage 2. And to be clear she was passing all the skill checks on hook. I imagine the bar was really close to finishing but it is crazy that I can intentionally try to facecamp someone in order to save them and it is still not enough.
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Amanda's Letter can be really strong, especially on indoor maps. There is a reason it is an Iri-add-on and that's because it is game changing. So i have to completely disagree with you that it should be basekit. A basekit increase to her crouched movement speed or a increase in how quickly she can crouch and uncrouch would be really welcome though.
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Now that face camping is no longer a thing, I think they should re-add hook grabs as a mechanic. They created some fun strategic scenarios for killers and survivors to have to work around. Maybe reduce the time to self-unhook with the anti-face camping mechanic to compensate so killers can't as easily try to force a trade with it.
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Agree. They should at the very least allow you to buy into previous rifts, maybe for 1250 cells or something if they want to make extra money off it. That way players can go back and unlock stuff they may have missed. Especially for new players who may have missed out of a lot of it.
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Yes, please BHVR change the chase music back. The old chase music was a sort of washing machine music that some complained about but it was a consistent nice rhythm that was good in the background. I actually enjoyed the old one, it was washing machine but it was good washing machine music. The new chase music is much more grating on the ears and disorientating. It just feels more chaotic and unappealing than the previous version.
I agree with OP, its bad enough to the point where I don't want to play her a bit tbh.
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@jonifire said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3559485#Comment_3559485
I also hope to get the old version back, but I think behavior wouldn‘t do that, because they spent time and money for the rework.
Yeah. Once they make a decision they are very resistant to change. Sometimes this is a good thing but sometimes its a bad things. The PTB revealed a lot about the flaws of the design and how it would make the game less fun but they forced it through anyways. Maybe in a year or two after a long stream of complaints BHVR might look into her again.
The Onryo rework is one of the worst things BHVR has done in recent memory for me. Really takes the energy out of playing dbd sometimes. I'll get on to have a few fun Onryo matches but after a few games my enjoyment is just slowly drained away as I remember how much more fun she used to be, how she didn't used to have a double cool-down, and how I didn't used to have to play dirty in an unfun way to keep up with survivors. It just is frustrating and depressing and after a few games I just go play Pig or something. Its really upsetting the rework ruined the enjoyment of playing my main for me.
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Completely agree. I have no idea what BHVR was thinking with the rework. The biggest complaint from survivors with the old version of Onryo was when killers forced condemn with a condemn playstyle. For Onryo's it was TV cool-downs being too long.
So what does BHVR do? They buff condemn but nerfed the fun mobility part of her kit making condemn playstyles pretty much the only effective way to play her. The changes to condemn and tapes also mean survivors are doing tape runs a lot more often meaning she has much more limited access to her TVs and slapped her with an additional 10 second cool-down on top of the existing TV cool-down.
They literally reworked her in the worst way possible and made it less fun for both sides. I seriously hope BHVR will consider undoing the rework. I used to play Onryo 80% of my killer matches but now its maybe 5% because she just is NOT fun to play anymore. Her entire strategy now revolves around the most unfun playstyles of slugging and tunneling tapes to force condemn instead of the fun fast-paced macro teleport gameplay she used to have.
You either get easy wins now because of the condemn buff or get destroyed even harder by skilled swf due to the nerfs to the rest of her kit. It is horribly balanced and unhealthy for the game. Not to mention unrewarding as a killer to play. Old Onryo took skill to pull off condemn moris and skill to take advantage of her macro play. Now you just press a button every 10 seconds and keep tabs on where people are as you hit tapes and eventually someone will get full stacks. Incredibly dull gameplay compared to what she had before.
I beg of you BHVR, do the right thing and undo it. You had all the negative feedback on the PTB and forced it through and people still hate it. Just admit you made a mistake please.
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I agree with your list. All of those are fun killers that require skill to use and thus is rewarding when doing well. They are powerful in the right hands but still challenging. I hope BHVR will keep making such killers.
Not only making fun killers but please don't ruin existing fun killers BHVR with pointless reworks. Onryo used to be really fun to play as and against and now its absolutely awful. As Onryo you either win easily because of the condemn buffs and people not countering or get destroyed because the rework nerfed everything else about her kit. It forces Onryos to play in the least fun way possible which is a slug condemn build because it is now the best way to play her due to how they did the buffs and nerfs. This is exactly the opposite of what survivors were asking for. It sucks as Onryo and it sucks as survivor. There is nothing rewarding about easy wins and nothing more frustrating then losing because you want to play anything but the mindless condemn strategy but her power has 2 cool-downs and got nerfed hard while giving her no chase power to compensate.
Please just revert the rework but keep the Ring Drawing nerfs and Onryo will be fun again. Also for the love of god please don't ruin what makes Twins fun like you did with Onryo.