Skillfulstone
Skillfulstone
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@TieBreaker said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3652493#Comment_3652493
Did you play during the gen kick meta? That was the easiest time to play killer. Despite this, tunneling was rampant. You can't blame recent nerfs for an increase in tunneling as it was already happening constantly. It feels like you are taking things you don't like and saying if BHVR reverted those nerfs, tunneling would lessen.
Like you said "As long as the best slowdown is to get someone out asap then tunnelling will always exist". Giving killers stronger regression will not change this fact. Tunneling will not stop until it's made harder to do. BHVR could give you all the buffs you ask for, and tunneling would still be here. We know this because killers have had even stronger regression than you are asking for and yet they still tunneled.
Limiting tunneling means that BHVR has to put roadblocks in the way to make tunneling less effective. Incentives and giving killers stronger regression will not do that beause they have tried that and it has never worked.
I did play during the gen-kick meta, and it was indeed pretty miserable, most games would last a long time if the Killer decided to stack slowdown, and tunnelling did exist. But it wasn't the worst period for it (for the record, while 7.5.0 kickstarted a rise in tunnelling, it's not the worst period for it either in the entire game's history, but it's been years since I've seen it being so common.) and it's not like it was every games (there was another problem). Tunnelling had been in a relatively stable state until 7.5.0.
I never said that fixing the 3-gen system would make tunnelling disappear (I even specified that it wouldn't, nothing will magically make tunnelling disappear for players that want to win first and foremost) but it's rather simple to at least mitigate it to some extent and reward not doing it.
The thing about the Anti-3-gen system and STBFL nerf is that tunneling got worse and perk variety went down but most noticeably for weaker Killers. I haven't really noticed a difference when facing the powerhouses and that's the thing: weaker Killers felt the need to tunnel more while stronger Killers didn't really care that much. Variety is one of DBD's strength over any other assym and it must preserve it.
I never asked for any "buffs", merely modifications. Change the activation time of the 3-gen countermeasure and remove STBFL's power near hooks (hardly a buff, it's litterally just nerfing tunneling potential of the previous version while keeping a good chase perk for weaker Killers).
I just want the gen system to only counter endless games and for playstyle and perk variety to stay broad.
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@H2H said:
Yeah, it’s a pretty awful, badly designed, badly implemented feature. But BHVR wants to ensure killers can only play in a very narrowly defined way. Truly abysmal work.
@justalilbit123 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3652463#Comment_3652463
As many times as it takes? If the survivors are trying to hammer out 1 particular gen, are you saying I'm obligated to let it go? What kind of sense does that make? That's taking all player agency away. That's like saying if a guy scores 8 goals in a hockey game (yeah I'm going there) that he's barred from trying to shoot at the net for the rest of the game. It's dumb. It punished people the mechanic was NOT AIMED AT.
Again, this is supposed to be ANTI 3 GEN. This is not supposed to be "anti gen regression". The entire point of the system is to punish chess merchant type play, where a killer runs 4 gen perks, does nothing but kick gens to try to drag the game on as long as possible. I have stated that not only do I run at most 2 slowdown perks, but usually 1, that I have personally seen the gen block mechanic kick in many, many times, simply because survivors are exploiting the fact that I can only kick it so many times.
You're suggesting there should be a limit on how many times you can make a good decision in a game. You're suggesting that if I see a gen at 90% with 2 guys working on it, that I should let them finish it. Do you truly not understand how messed up that logic is? Like I said, if a survivor got 4 flashlight saves, you would NEVER consider it fair for their flashlight to just disappear or be locked for the rest of the game.
The mechanic needs to be redesigned. OBVIOUSLY 3 genning should be addressed but what I'm saying is this isn't it.
@Ghouled_Mojo said:
Yeah it feels punishing sometimes. If there’s a central gen that survivors start on early and killer pathing takes you through there a lot, especially if you’re using brutal or something, it can happen more than you’d expect. Perks like nowhere to hide and eruption add extra incentive to kick just add to the issue. Surge can really push that limit quickly on maps like the game or midwich.
it could have been handled a bit better because punishing a killer with certain perks or perk combos seems like a poor decision.
never mind having something cool happen like having the entity move gens or something. Just punish the killer by blocking a gen.
Well said. The mechanic isn't entirely worthless, it does prevent endless games, but it also affects normal play and punishes Killers for preventing Survivors repairing a generator too much. I can't count the number of times Surge or Pain Res hit the same gen multiple times or I had to kick a gen that Survivor kept going back to and I ended up in a situation where one of the last 3 gens was almost blocked which essentially meant an automatic loss since I couldn't prioritize one gen.
This is especially true for weaker/M1 Killers that are much more dependent on gen-defense than the powerhouses. There's a reason why tunnelling is at an all-time high: With limited slowdown through gen-regression, Killers need to slow gens somehow and getting one person out asap is boring but efficient.
The mechanic has potential, but it should only activate after the 4th gen is completed. As it is now it only puts arbitrary limits and punishes Killers for regressing gens and using certain perks the whole match.
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@Adrien said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/405585/i-hate-wraith
This section is about feedbacks and suggestions on game feature, not just players playstyle or profile.
Do you have any suggestion on how to balance Wraith or tunneling ?
While I wasn't the recipient, I'll give my two cents anyway.
I honestly believe Wraith to be in a perfect spot right now, at least concerning the character itself, the recent changes I mentioned earlier affected him as well as most Killers.
A good first step to tackle tunnelling would be to rework STBFL in the following way: Revert the entire nerf and instead make the perk deactivate near hooked Survivors and not work on Basekit BT (or for a certain amount of time after being unhooked), this would encourage Killers using the perk to not camp and tunnel and would keep it's raw chase power while removing it's potential in tunnelling and camping situations in one fell swoop.
The 3-gen change essentially encourages tunnelling since gen-defense is limited, if one slowdown is made weaker then Killers, especially those on the weaker end of the spectrum, have to compensate somehow. Making it activate during the last gen would restore gen-defense while removing infinite 3-gen games.
Another way to de-incentivize tunnelling would be to give an exponentially-increasing bp bonus when hooking a different Survivor every hook (1-2-3-4, not 1-2-1-2). This wouldn't "fix" tunnelling but less competitive (or players wanting to challenge themselves further) could use this bonus to further encourage spreading hooks and get more benefits from it.
The incoming Buff to DS will likely help to some degree but I wouldn't count on it alone. Not to mention it's better to reward not tunnelling than punishing it.
As long as the best slowdown is to get someone out asap then tunnelling will always exist if the player wants to win over anything else but rewarding (either through perks like Grim Embrace or Pain Res or through mechanics) spreading hooks is in my opinion a good step to take.
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If it makes you feel better, it's not specific to Wraith, 7.5.0 made tunnelling even worse for basically every weaker/M1 Killer except the powerhouses since they never really needed slowdown to begin with. The STBFL nerf also really didn't help in that regard.
God I'm gonna have so much editing to do if BHVR fixes the Anti-3-gen system by making it only trigger at the last gen XD
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If the Anti-3-gen system only activated during the last gen I would at least get the Dredge one (one of the best skins hands-down), but playing lower-tier Killers now is just too stressful and limiting if the Survivors know what they are doing.
Gotta give credits where it's due, the Dredge and Deathslinger Iron Maiden skins are pretty awesome, custom lobby music makes it even better.
(Jeezums if they do fix the system I'll have to edit so much stuff. A small price I'd gladly pay though XD)
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Favorite era...
From 6.5.0 to 7.5.0.
The HUD update was a godsend and one of the greatest addition.
Bad Killer ideas and old MFT excluded, nothing game-breaking happened for a while, even the surprise healing nerf was manageable and was adapted to pretty quickly. Things looked more stable than they'd ever been.
Then came 7.5.0 where 90% of gen regression perks and all non-regression kick perks were made a detriment and limited ressource, weaker Killers were made weaker and more stressful to play by proxy, one of the best chase perk that S-tier Killers couldn't really use was nerfed into even more of a tunnelling perk without touching it's actual issue (hurting weaker/M1 Killers more and not bothering powerful Killers that didn't really used it in the first place) and despite lots of feedback including videos and streams nothing was changed so far.
Sure the other changes in 7.5.0 were either great, good or not bad but the "Anti-3-gen" system and STBFL nerf were so ill-thought-out... and the worst thing is that the gen system is so close to doing what it's supposed to do (which is only prevent endless games and not affect the game otherwise) and all it would need is simply activate only after the 4th gen is done.
The STBFL nerf was also in the wrong direction and simply should have been to deactivate the perk when too close to a hooked Survivor and not work on basekit BT to keep it's chase power without taking away a great chase tool from weaker Killers and reducing tunnelling in one fell swoop.
If BHVR does those changes (heck, just fixing the Anti-3-gen would be heavenly) I'm gonna have to edit countless messages on multiple platforms but I'd do this any day of the week if it's the price to pay.
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I honestly don't really see the point of forcing players to show their prestige or not.
I get why people would want to hide prestige but I honestly believe it should simply be an option. People that lobby-shop would still do it even if it was hidden, they'd just do it based on items (and cosmetics to some extent) only instead.
If you want to flex, then show your prestige.
If you'd rather stay under the radar until post-match then hide it.
I firmly believe that "just make it an option" is a good answer to a lot of problems.
Especially in an assym, any mechanic or addition that lowers variety is almost inherently unhealthy for the game unless it only removes something bad and nothing else.
Example: the Anti-3-gen system (essentially deletes most regression perks and non-regression kick perks due to having limited amount per gen) doesn't do that since it does way more than prevent endless 3-gens and hurts many perks alongside weaker Killers by putting unnecessary limits that must be kept in mind even when not intending to 3-gen. The system would be perfect if it only activated after the 4th gen is completed as that would only prevent endless games without hindering playstyles and perk variety mid-game.
Example 2: The HUD update (makes a couple Survivor perks less relevant, while Kindred is still as present as ever, Bond and Empathy were more common in the past) does accomplish that since it helps bridge the gap between SWF and SoloQ a tiny bit and doesn't impige on builds, in fact Survivors can use a wider range of perks due to teammate status being semi-basekit.
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https://youtu.be/vOliDIQxQlE?si=CwdpCXEEAoCL2MNA
I'll leave this here, this guy explains why people hate her even now in detail.
It mostly comes down to: There's little to no meaningful counterplay against her, especially for inexperienced Survivors, and she does too much for too little effort.
While her killrate is surely inflated to some extent by people giving up on hook, it's not for nothing that she has the highest killrate.
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@jesterkind said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3651496#Comment_3651496
Sure, some of that's a fair complaint, but it's also a very different complaint. People do keep saying very specifically that STBFL especially shined on M1 killers (it didn't, it shone on hybrids that had an M2) and that the nerf is especially damaging to M1 killers (again, not really, only some of them even have a relevant special attack to begin with).
I absolutely, categorically, emphatically disagree that STBFL encourages tunnelling. It doesn't. It just works while you're tunnelling, which isn't even close to the same thing. People are making the choice to tunnel and STBFL is helping, there is absolutely zero pressure to make that choice to begin with. Even if you're nearby and the Obsession is close, that's a choice; do you lose stacks, find someone else, or tunnel? Finding someone else might be throwing the game, but those other two decisions have equal weight.
There is no real encouragement to tunnel in this game other than that it's easy and can't be reliably punished, and I don't think it's helpful or healthy to try and pin the choice on anything other than the player making it.
For the second to last paragraph, I was under this misconception too, but it's not actually messed up. It's just that there is literally only other one perk that works this way, Play With Your Food, which also loses tokens from the same things.
Because most other Obsession perks also require damaging to function, rather than just attacking, I was under the impression only damaging M2s were counted as "special attacks", but that's wrong; individual Trickster knives and Deathslinger's harpoon are special attacks, it's working as intended.
I think it's really dumb and should be changed, but it's not a mistake.
Before the nerf it didn't encourage tunnelling, although it was often used like that, but the nerf did exactly what it shouldn't have done: Weaken it's chase potential and essentially remove incentive to not tunnel and proxy-camp to maximize use out of the perk without really touching it's power in those situations.
If they had just made the perk not work in camping/tunneling scenarios then it would have made Killers more inclined to chase in order to get full power and value out of the perk.
While it's ultimately a player's decision, the current STBFL basically incentivize tunnelling if the Obsession goes for a save, it's undeniable. If at least M2 wouldn't make you lose stacks it wouldn't be quite as bad but there's literally no workaround to losing stacks.
I think most people often lump "M1" and "weaker/average" in the same basket (that's why is usually use "weaker/M1" instead of just saying "M1") since, well, M1 Killers are not really among the stronger Killers.
Again, if the perk was also good on Nurse and Blight/Wesker then people wouldn't be so outraged but this nerf only hurt weaker/M1 Killers and reduced perk & Killer variety. Just like the "Anti-3-gen" system and just like the incoming Sloppy nerf.
DBD's advantage over every other assyms is it's variety in nearly all aspects, but it's dwindling and it's recently been made worse.
I knew about the PWYF thing, I was saying "mess up" as in "made a bad decision" XD
The worst thing is that only minor changes are needed to fix the 7.5.0 mistakes, most of the update was fine, but I honestly don't really see a point in playing weaker Killers anymore due to options being more and more limited. I honestly don't think I've been in more than 3 games in a row without the Killer's build being some combination of Pain Res, DMS, Grim Embrace and something else (usually either Pop or an info perk) and someone getting tunnelled at 5 gens. It's becoming stale fast and unless BHVR reverts some things then I don't really see playing a variety of Killers and perks being appealing.
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@jesterkind said:
I still don't understand why everyone acts like A: STBFL was especially useful on M1 killers compared to others and B: the nerf it received actually affected those killers more than others.
M1 killers, definitionally, didn't have a way to preserve stacks before, so they won't actually notice the stack-loss nerf. They'll only notice the slight number nerf, which isn't that big of a deal. If anything, it's actually more useful on those killers now, because you're no longer comparing its use on them to its use on killers that could damage without an M1.
To the overall point, there's a pretty massive glaring flaw in the premise and a few smaller flaws with some specific reasoning. The massive flaw is that killer perk variety is pretty damn good now and that stacking gen defence over everything else is a choice, not a necessity forced on you by the MMR system or overall perk changes.
The only other thing I'd want to highlight is that chase + info perks are both pretty good overall right now, not even counting individual utility perks like how Agitation has always been good and stealth perks have been buffed pretty noticeably. Even some of the ones you listed are pretty good- Enduring is a very nice pick on its own and very strong when paired with Spirit Fury, Brutal Strength is a nice perk that affects your overall downtime more than any one chase, and Dissolution is just kinda finicky, not bad.
As an aside, Fire Up does actually have a reason to bring it, but I'll grant it's pretty niche. If you're facing a flashlight squad and don't want to stop them from trying to blind you by bringing Lightborn, bringing Fire Up will mess with their timing because it affects pick up speeds. Not much, I'm not really arguing with it being on your list, I just like spreading the good word on that front lol
The STBFL nerf is a big deal because it nerfed it's chase potential while arguably encouraging it's only problematic aspect: it's ability to camp and tunnel better.
M1 Killers, by definition, have longer chases (on average) and aren't necessarily devoid of an M2 attack (Pig and Pinhead are essentially M1 Killers since they use M1 for almost every attacks (add-ons excluded) and their M2 has next to no use in chase damage outside of potential mindgames if the Survivors are decent) and STBFL compensated for that weakness.
But it's not just because M1 Killers benefited from it, it's because it was one of the handful of good chase perks that the powerhouses (Nurse, Blight, Wesker to some extent etc.) couldn't really use as well as the other Killers that don't use M2 for 99% of their attacks. Most powerful perks are made even stronger when used by those Killers but STBFL wasn't.
STBFL was also a way to make bodyblocks riskier and Endurance less punishing (arguably the only soft-counter to FTP+Buckle Up).
The other issue with the nerf is that by removing a way to avoid losing stacks they are essentially encouraging tunnelling and completely ignoring one Survivor (not exactly fun gameplay). This is especially true when it comes to unhooks.
STBFL was always a powerful tool for tunnelling and camping, and it was it's only problematic aspect, and now they weakened it's chase potential but also didn't touch the one problem with the perk. By removing a way to avoid losing stacks, a nearby Killer has NO REASON to not tunnel if the Obsession is the rescuer. The nerf essentially makes the perk worse in chases but barely touches it's camping and tunnelling strength.
Literally all they had to do was deactivate the perk when too close to a hooked Survivor and not work on basekit BT. Everything else about the perk was fine.
There's also the fact that they managed to mess up the nerf by making it so some M2, even if they do no damage, will remove stacks, killing the perk even more (Trickster will lose 2 stacks for each knife hit and Deathslinger will lose stacks just by landing a harpoon even if the Survivor doesn't lose a health state for example, leading to losing 8 stacks in one encounter with the Obsession).
The biggest complaint isn't that the nerf made the perk worse, it's that it made it worse in every aspect except the one it should have been worked on and that it only discourages Killer variety since the stronger Killers never cared that much for it but lots of weaker Killers did use it.
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Took the words right out of my mouths...
The 7.5.0 update wasn't a complete mess but it had some of the most unhealthy and ill-thought-out changes in a while.
Hillbilly getting some love is great!
Sadako getting, hilariously enough, her 2nd rework which removed her braindead spam-teleport playstyle was also great!
Most perk changes were great, or at least not bad for the game.
But the STBFL change was such a huge blow to weaker/M1 Killers that was utterly unnecessary. Literally all it accomplishes is weaken it's chase potential, synergy with most Killers and encourage tunnelling while not fixing the only problematic part of the perk. All that was needed was neuter it's camping and tunnelling potential by deactivating the perk when too close to a hooked Survivor and not work on basekit BT.
Then came the "3-gen solution" that really, again, only hurt weaker Killers by punishing them in lategame for defending gens during the trials, destroying tons of perks and adding yet another thing to keep in mind. S-tier Killers don't care about this system because they never needed much regression outside of Pop and Pain Res (which are ironically basically the only valid regression perks anymore due to their high payoff per procs compared to every other regression perks and non-regression kick perks (Nowhere to Hide, Surveillance, Machine Learning, Dragon's Grip, Trail of Torment etc.)) while weaker Killers that used a larger variety (especially Surge) got punished even if they don't 3-gen. This only further encourages tunnelling to compensate for weaker gen-defense.
Quite frankly, I'd be more than happy if the system only triggered after thr 4th gen is done (and judging by the comments and videos from the Gen-system feedback thread, most people would be) and kicks would go back to 2.5%, 5% is nothing anyway and having a base 5% just makes kicking gens with the Knight's guards not special. The removal of gen-tap alone was a great addition and the system itself isn't horrible (endless 3-gen games are indeed annoying) but it does way more than simply prevent endless 3-gen games.
The future Mangle nerf is just an additional slap in the face of M1 Killers. Instead of killing of the last good perk that Nurse and Blight can't use as well as the weaker Killers why not buff certain healing perks (Resurgence, Reactive Healing etc.) by making the healing progress gained through those perks impossible to regress or at least give like a 40 seconds window where Hemorrhage can't regress it? This would be much healthier and encourage Killer and perk variety instead of making viable options less common and accessible.
I still hold hope, foolish as it may be, that at some point the gen system will be reworked to only trigger at 1 gen remaining...
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The removal of gen-tapping alone was enough to possibly broaden the regression perks.
Buff or not, the current "Anti-3-gen" system basically invalidates any regression perks (and non-regression kick perks) outside of Pop and Pain Res purely because of how little payoff every other perks have despite taking away 1/8 regression events.
No buff will make any kick or regression perk other than Pop/Pain Res relevant unless the system only activates after the 4th gen is completed to make all those perks not a detriment if used mid-game.
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Power with gimmick = built-in slowdown that the Survivors have to deal with. The more cooperation/communication the gimmick requires, the stronger it is against SoloQ (the majority of players).
Especially in these times, slowdown is necessary (and unfortunately becoming harder and harder, just look at the new gen system, that should only activate during the last gen) and unless the Killer is mobile and/or lethal enough to compensate (Nurse, Blight...) then Killers that have ways to make Survivors waste time, either through their powers or via perks, will automatically perform better against most Survivors.
For example Sadako, an objectively average Killer with a simple enough counterplay, is still a SoloQ stomper because Survivors are either ignoring TVs or running aimlessly. A SWF can relay TV location and status, turning off TVs systematically and keeping condemn low but SoloQ can hardly do this unless every player is very good and on the same wavelength.
Same for Pinhead and the Box. In SoloQ nobody wants to get the Box and so it's not rare to see chain hunts while in SWF one person can be the dedicated Box person.
The tutorial should have some basic infos on each Killers. Hell I'd take a bare minimum short video showcasing the counterplay with text over it (kinda like the Smash Bros tutorial).
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I would be hyped if they ever did a full Until Dawn chapter and a full Quiet Place chapter (although tbh the monsters from both could be legendary skins of each other XD).
...Well, I would be hyped if gen-defense wasn't kneecapped for weaker/M1 Killers and decent squads weren't able to purposefully get one gen at low regression events then keep it for the end for a free endgame.
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Well, it's getting unpinned....
Foolish of me as it sounds, I'll try to keep hoping enough people make enough sound to make the system only activate during the last gen. Keeping hope that only endless 3-gen games are affected and not gen defense in general.
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I mean, tunnelling is at an all-time high for two simple reasons;
1: Turning the game into a 3v1 at 3 gens or more is basically guaranteeing victory.
2: Gen defense (and almost every kick perks, regression-based or not) is essentially gone with the 7.5.0 patch and, unless they make it so the "Anti-3-gen" system only kicks-in during the last gen, Killers are punished in endgame for regressing gens during the entire trial. Killers, especially non-S-tier Killers, have to get some slowdown somehow and it's becoming harder to do it without simply getting someone out asap.
There's also the fact that Billy has been C-tier at best for several years, so not a lot of serious players used him, and now he's been suddenly bumped up to high B-tier/low A-tier (only dragged down by his high skill-ceiling and map-dependency). So lots of people are bound to play him.
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It's 6%!! It literally shaves off like 4 seconds off a gen and only on 3 gens at a time! Most of it's strength isn't from gen speed, it's knowing where the 3-gens are so Survivors don't end up in a 3-gen in the first place.
And the system is flawed anyway, it's not just 3-genning that's gone (although it's not entirely gone) it's gen-defense in general that took a blow and tunneling that got encouraged.
Most people use it because Gold progress bar = Dopamine XD
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@YamamuraVideoRentals said:
I think the system is working fine. If you're still struggling with getting 3genned as a survivor, I'd say you're doing something wrong:
- Try running deja vu. Try to knock out the gens that are closer to the middle of the map, or the middle one of the highlighted. As you keep doing this, risk of 3gen decreases.
- Otherwise, experience with the maps and map sense can help you determine which gens you should probably try focusing on.
- Save your toolboxes for the LAST GENS, don't waste them on the first gen you see.
- If in a 3gen scenario, just aim for making the gen stop regressing. Killer will have to waste another kick on it after that.
- Do other gens. The killer will probably start getting in the mindset of everyone focusing on one particular generator if they see survivor hovering around it and trying to repair it all the time. However, this can be faked simply by making it not regress anymore, and you could start working on other generators.
I know the 3gen scenario still isn't easy to deal with, but it's one of those problems that's far easier to prevent than it is to cure.
While the advices themselves are sound and effective (Survivors should try to focus on center gens early), one of them also show the flaw in the system itself;
The mindset of "everyone focusing on one particular generator" comes from somewhere. It comes from the fact that, like a few people already showed and lots of people say, it's not rare to end up in a situation where one of the gens is almost out of regression events by the end because Survivors tried to do specific gens (like they should do as it's part of Survivor gameplay, it's the reason Déjà Vu exists, to make this part easier) and they need to prioritize that gen, making the endgame harder and more stressful for the Killer even if they never intended to 3-gen. This is especially hard on slower/weaker/M1 Killers that can't zip around the map and/or end chases in 10 seconds. S-tier Killers don't really care about the system in the first place since gen-regression outside of Pop/Pain Res was never really needed outside of extreme situations against insane squads.
When a Killer seemingly refuses to kick a gen despite it having high progress, I've seen teammates purposefully leaving that gen for the end knowing it's a free W at the end. That shouldn't be a thing.
Honestly, a 3-gen situation should be difficult to deal with but not impossible (the system does actually accomplish that) but the system should only be active at the end to only deal with endless games (the real issue) instead of punishing gen-defense during the whole game and deleting many perks.
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SoloQ is, on average if you're unlucky with teammates, a frustrating experience. Especially with tunnelling being at an all-time high and the latest patch making it worse.
The latest patch (7.5.0) seriously hurt weaker/M1 Killers without changing anything for S-tier Killers, reducing Killer variety and perk variety (variety is one of the things that sets DBD apart from other assyms).
Lights Out didn't take off as much as we hoped. A new game mode was asked for years and it wasn't very popular in the end. Hopefully future modifiers will have more success. It is a step in the right direction though and could be nice to keep in custom games.
Alan Wake, despite being a license, was a Survivor-only chapter. Which means in terms of gameplay it doesn't bring a lot on it's own except for perks.
The next chapter is coming soon and lots of people are mostly just coming back for new chapters and are otherwise not playing regularily.
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I mean, the new, and hopefully still changeable, gen system basically threw nearly every regression perks and non-regression kick perks in the drain since they take away regression events for too little payoff, especially for weaker/M1 Killers. What did you think would happen?
Of course perk variety would go down even more, what's the point of bringing Surge or Eruption if you end up with gens that are almost out of regression events at the end which makes the endgame harder? Why not bring the regression perks that have the biggest regression per proc instead?
Lots of people predicted that outcome. If the system only activated during the last gen (or at least when there's only 2 gens left) then Killers would have more options.
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The Anti-3-gen system is doing way more than it's supposed to. It's not uncommon for weaker/M1 Killers to end up with one of the last gens (usually one in a high-traffic area like main/middle gens) which makes the endgame essentially unwinnable for the Killer since they have very limited regression left on that gen, forcing them to prioritize that specific gen over the other 2 even though they never intended to 3-gen.
This makes it much safer to simply do every gens in sight in any order instead of choosing which gens to do. Who cares if the game ends in a 3-gen, unless it's against an S-tier Killer or one of the 3-gen trio (fun fact: Knight can use his guards to kick the gens more than 8 times, apparently the guards can continue damaging gens if they do the 8th kick as they can't trigger the gen-block themselves, entirely bypassing the mechanic. An ill-thought-out mechanic and it still managed to be worked around somehow by one of the main culprits in making this system exist in the first place) then simply pre-running will essentially guarantee victory.
Using Surge and Eruption in particular is just asking for ending up in such a situation if the Survivors don't go down easy. It also makes non-regression kick perks (Nowhere to Hide, Surveillance, Dragon's Grip, Trail of Torment, Machine Learning etc.) a limited resource despite not being made to defend/regress gens, reducing perk and Killer variety and viability.
The system itself isn't a complete failure, the idea behind it is sound, but the system should have less regression events (like 6 or 7) but only activate after the 4th gen is completed to truly be an Anti-3-gen system. As it is now it only makes life more difficult for weaker Killers, stronger/3-gen Killers don't care and it reduces variety.
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Some Killers, most notably Killers having some kind of insta-down, are extremely strong in this modifier.
One of my friends literally makes streams/videos out of 5-gen chases against Bubbas or surviving a tunnelling Killer all the while talking to people, in this mode he's focusing against basically any 4.6m Killer since every Killer might as well be the equivalent Myers in tier 2 using Dead Rabbit and Monitor & Abuse for how much time you have to react before you're in striking range.
The modifier ironically makes lots of weaker Killers much stronger and, despite having no perks, grants decent "slowdown" since Survivors tend to wander around, especially newcomers. In fact this modifier as a whole further widens the "beginners vs experienced" gap since not a lot changes for Killer navigation but Survivors rely essentially on sound and can't plan a chase route ahead of time and are working with tile knowledge on the fly.
It's incredibly unbalanced BUT it's not meant to be and was decent fun while it lasted, it'll probably come back at some point but it just wouldn't work as a permanent "game mode" since the lack of perks and difficulty for newcomers/casuals would make it stale and almost forgotten pretty quickly.
I wouldn't mind having modifiers be permanent in custom games though, when playing with friends or playing certain Killers that aren't really viable normally it's pretty fun!
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That cursed PTB was so bad that it was one of the few times in DBD history that most of the community on both sides united and agreed that it wasn't good.
That PTB contained arguably the most miserable games I've ever played on either side. The entire idea made tunnelling and slugging the standard.
There's literally a video on Youtube called "1 hour of abusing basekit Unbreakable" that was made during this PTB.
BHVR had some good ideas over the years, basekit Unbreakable/Finisher Mori aren't among those. Hopefully it's gone never to return.
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"Ranked" and "Casual" Queues cannot exist for one simple reason: they would become meaningless in short order and in the end nothing good would come of it.
DBD has a very aggressive and competitive playerbase which is notorious for exploiting every scrap of edge they can get to make the "other side" miserable (go watch "The Downfall of bully squads" from Ardetha on Youtube, very interesting watch).
If Queues were separate, not only would that make queue time longer but it would also cease to function shortly when good players start going against other players that can match or surpass them on the regular, and what do you think will happen then?
Former "ranked" players, after getting beaten too many times or simply wanting easy stomps, will go to the "casual" queue and start to steamroll people meming around or bringing unoptimal builds, which would make "ranked" queue times even longer which would make even less people play it and so on and so forth until only a handful of comp players remain in the "ranked" queue out of principle and the other 99.9% of the playerbase is playing casual queue in order to hope for a game where they don't sweat, returning us to the current situation.
As unbalanced as the game can be, splitting queues won't fix anything, better to work on fixing the bad things instead of further dividing an already split community. Leave rule enforcing to tournaments.
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The anti-facecamp is still active, the bar isn't there however.
Was playing with a streamer the other day in Lights Out and they unhooked themselves on 2nd hook because the Killer kept roaming too close.
The bar was removed as part of the HUD but the countermeasure is still there.
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@RpTheHotrod said:
BHVR, just want to make sure, are y'all still keeping tabs on this feedback thread? Trying to at least be helpful by providing video of matches where this is affecting match results in non-3 gen camping situations.
Honestly, please keep posting those matches (especially those while playing weaker Killers to really drive the point home) because eventually they'll come across it somehow anyway (maybe a repost in another thread by someone else that sees the issue or simply through sheer luck) and maybe they'll consider making the system only trigger at 3-gens (or maybe at 4 gens at the very least since someone pointed out that it's not that rare to get some nasty map generation and get some rough setups).
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@Nebula said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3644278#Comment_3644278
I see your point, but IIRC the devs specifically said a big reason for this system being in place is to counter people holding three gens from the start of the match, and if that’s truly the case then it has to be active from the get-go. Could it be better? Absolutely. But it’s doing it’s job on that front.
While it does help against that, it also hurts Killers that aren't 3-genning. If the system activated at the end it would only affect those situations.
Just look at the cursed Team ETERNAL vs Cm9i match: Like all 3-genning Killers (from the start) he never really left his zone, which means the Survivors did every other gens basically unbothered and were in almost pristine condition when the 3-gen battle started.
A Killer that chases and hooks during the game will likely have to deal with a Survivor team in rough shape compared to a 3-genner that wanted to play chess from the start. If the system only starts at the end it punishes those 3-genners much more since the Survivors are in good shape and map ressources are still plentiful.
The current system punishes non-3-genning Killers as much (if not more since their builds won't be made for it) than 3-gen players and it shouldn't be.
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@UndeddJester said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3644240#Comment_3644240
That's a pretty good argument, and some actual meat to discuss.
I did personally advocate for instead of blocking the gen, instead make it so that regression events drop the 5% progression loss (and all loss sources) to 0.1% progress loss, and regression rate drops from 0.25c/s to 0.01c/s, and that would mean killer could carry on using and proccing those perks.
I still think it's overthinking it though. Surge is not compatible with perks like Eruption, NTH or Trail, especially now survivors can't gen tap anymore, as they can't proc together, they step on each others toes. You can't kick the generator to activate them after it's been hit by Surge. You'd be better off taking Pop to get more value out of each kick... and between Eruption and Pop, you've got very hefty regression that makes Trail not very effective here. Ruin would be a better combo with Surge, maybe in combo with Surveilance (or ofc a hex defence perk).
Combining Eruption with perks like Trail of Torment and Nowhere to Hide is still efficient, because you get more regression on your initial kick, making it last longer to pop Eruption, so you got the initial 5%, plus another 10%. NTH helps you ensure you get in chase with anyone close, or more certainty your Trail is safe for the time being. When you down, you got more value from Eruption than kicking the gen twice, and realistically how many times do you get Eruption on a gen per game? My personal best when not ditching chases and hard camping a 3 gen is 3 times... that's 45% on Eruption alone. You're put Pop on that and you've got some really efficient gen slowdown.
The anti 3-gen system does limit the more unga bunga gen regression perk stacking, but it's certainly something you can still plan and optimise around, especially when you put DMS, Deadlock and GE in the mix.
I'd agree with allowing the killer to still kick gens to activate perks that rely on it, even if all regression was disabled, though this does still allow Overcharge to be used for 3-genning, so I understand why it isn't... but anti-3-gen still doesn't look like the boogie man people are suggesting.
Edit: The thing is if these perks are too weak as a result of the 3-gen change (which I'm not convinced they are), they can be looked at as targets to be buffed in other ways. E.g.
- NTH gets a longer range or up time.
- Trail can have a maximum distance of say 36m that's its aura is revealed to survivors.
I never said the system shouldn‘t exist, in fact it's decent at preventing endless games, but it honestly shouldn‘t be active from the start. I think it should have less events (like 6) but only be active during the last gen to truly be an Anti-3-gen system.
Also let's be honest here, 5% is almost nothing, without any perks/items/great skillchecks that regression is repaired back in less than 4 seconds. Survivors lose more progress (and as such, time) when failing skill checks and we all know how little time it actually saves if the Survivors have any kind of gen-speed perks/items. Before the system I tested this while farming with Knight: I was constantly "kicking" a gen with a guard and 2 Survivors were repairing it during the cooldown, just in those few seconds they were out-repairing the damage to the gen (and Guards already did 5% damage).
Again, reaching the cap isn't the issue, it's being at a disadvantage during the last gen even if the Survivors 3-genned themselves and you regressed one gen too much as well as limiting certain perks. A 3-gen should be a difficult situation for the Survivors. Which is why activating the system at the end would only affect those situations.
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@UndeddJester said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3644191#Comment_3644191
Yeah, of course I understand that, but even at its worst, I'd still expect at least 4 hooks on 8 downs, and that's if you've been rather unlucky.
Unless you want to argue you regularly experience less than a 50٪ down/hook conversion rate, it still sounds like we're focusing on exceptions rather than the rule.
I'm happy to hear the argument, maybe you do experience this at high levels of play, but thus far I've had rather weak argumentation saying Surge hits the limit of regression events quickly, and this means the anti 3 gen syatem is unfair on killer. This however seems to ignore you've gotten 8 procs of Surge avross multiple gens, and I would argue, managing to get 8 hits of it, even if you've only gotten 2 hooks, you've still regressed gens at least 48% off the regression events alone...
That is a lot of time you've bought, especially on a 3 gen... and if you've failed to convert that much time, I have to question why?
I would not expect to get 8 procs of Surge on a gen unless I was specifically camping a 3-gen all game... please explain how you hit this limit in normal play, cause it sounds like you're getting a lot of value from it.
The issue isn't reaching 8 regression events before endgame, that will be pretty rare unless you stack 4 slowdown including Surge a Eruption (keeping in mind that Surge & Eruption together alone can chew through 3 events in one go).
The issue is that, unless the Killer absolutely destroys the Survivors (underhanded means or not), then even just kicking gens normally can lead to a tough endgame even though the Killer didn't intend to 3-gen.
If at least 3 Survivors make it to last gen (which is common if not using certain strategies and/or playing most Killers) then if even one gen is like halfway through it's regression events then it puts the Killer on the defensive since they need to prioritize defending THIS gen. Even if the Survivors 3-gen themselves this happens often. This is especially common with important gens like center gens that Survivors tend to come back to often.
The other major issue is that the system puts a hard-limit on non-regression perks (Nowhere to Hide, Surveillance, Machine Learning, Dragon's Grip, Trail of Torment etc.) which can screw the Killer over late-game of they kick gens too often for perk value. Why kick gens for the chance to see Survivors's auras if it takes away 1/8th of my kicks?
S-tier Killers don't care about the system because they never regressed gens much in the first place outside of Pop and PainRes. The system affects weaker Killers more AND limits perk variety and viability.
It's not a matter of hitting 8 events, it's a matter of being limited to not hit that cap too soon.
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@Hensen2100 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/404499/while-it-may-be-rumors-i-am-worried
No lootboxes in DBD. Just good ol' pure pay to win. Release OP content then nerf it after a few months is the standard here.
Apart from licensed content (and BHVR has essentially no control over that) almost everything can be grinded and if you don't care for cosmetics then it doesn't take THAT long to unlock a character. Add to that the reward codes and events (x2 exp for example) and characters rack up rather quickly. Not to mention most original characters recently got their price halved.
I can't exactly blame BHVR for having busted stuff at release for two reasons;
1: It's much safer from a game design perspective to release something very powerful then nerf it later after feedback than releasing something weak/boring and having to toy with it several times (looking at Onryo here, on her 2nd rework after releasing weak, being reworked into one of the most braindead powerful SoloQ/pub-stomper and then getting another rework and then having said rework get an update mere weeks later) in order to make it appealing.
2: If licensed Killers and Survivor perks were bad, or good but unoriginal, not only would no one buy them but they also would bring nothing to the game.
I don't mind costly cosmetics because not only are the gameplay content fairly priced but also the game isn't a full-priced game (it's like 20$ on steam at base and is on sale most of the time, most games these days hover around the 70$ mark).
Quite frankly, looking at the current top 10 Killer and Survivor perks, none of the Survivor perks are licensed and only two on the Killer side are licensed (Lethal Pursuer and Surge, STBFL was but when they killed it it dipped in pickrate outside of hard-tunnellers).
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@Aven_Fallen said:
The Leak which you refer to only named them "Lootboxes", but they were not Lootboxes. At least what was described does not sound like the regular Lootbox you get from other games.
And in general... Leaked Content will not be discussed here. Why not wait until the official announcement before jumping to conclusions?
Well, my apologies if I broke some sort of rule (wasn't aware) I was merely voicing concerns.
The fact nothing is confirmed is the reason why this thread isn't in the feedback section and is sheer worrisome speculations. I do apologize if it bothered some people.
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Contrary to Killer endgame perks, Survivor endgame perks have NO GUARANTEE to even activate.
Killers will still be there after the last gen is done, Survivors tend (especially recently and made worse by the latest update) to get tunnelled out (or simply killed, or insta-deleted by special mori) before endgame.
The fact that the Survivor is weaker the whole match (and as such has a higher chance of death) justifies it's power.
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The STBFL change is going the wrong direction and now encourages tunnelling further while not fixing the only issues with the perk. It goes against everything that should be wanted out of a chase perk.
STBFL is one of the handful of perks that weaker/M1 Killers can use effectively but that Nurse and Blight can barely use (due to 90% of their attacks being M2, if a Blight or Nurse go out of their way to preserve/gain stacks then they are actively handicapping themselves, even Wesker is actively losing slowdown and chase power if going for M1 during chases for the sake of stacks) which is a good thing.
What can be unhealthy however is it's camping and tunnelling potential when going over 5 stacks. As it was, a Killer with 5+ stacks, if the rescuer and hooked Survivor are NOT the obsession, can hit the rescuer and recover quickly enough to not only force a trade but also might be able to land a hit on the basekit BT before the unhooked gets far.
If the Obsession goes for the save, the Killer effectively has no reason to attack the obsession after the unhook unless they have an M2 attack (which is slower most of the time and gives enough time for the rescued Survivor to leave). Unless the Killer player goes out of their way to tunnel, using an M2 usually is too slow to risk going on a potentially long chase (this is especially true when climbing the MMR ladder where every seconds count). With the current version, the Killer has no incentive to not tunnel as M2 attacks don't make a difference and the perk needs more stacks.
The current "healthiest" scenario is when the Obsession is the one hooked since the Killer has no reason to tunnel as they would lose stacks, however this encourages proxy-camping and will often lead to an unavoidable trade when going past 5+ stacks. This is the closest to healthy gameplay in a STBFL camping scenario (not exactly healthy but common).
By making both M1 and M2 lose 2 stacks when hitting the Obsession, it encourages the Killer to ignore the Obsession completely (making the game rather boring for the Obsession) and instead hard-tunnel when punishing an unsafe unhook to gain/preserve stacks.
The new version of the perk actually encourages tunnelling and camping more than before since any encounter with the obsession will likely take away 4 stacks (or more depending on the Killer). Not to mention that without the coordination of a SWF, there is a good chance that the Obsession won't even be aware of STBFL or even have the initiative/courage to throw themselves at the Killer.
A healthy change could be the following;
When within 10 meters from a hooked Survivor (distance can be tweaked), Save The Best For Last deactivates. The bonus recovery speed does not trigger and no stacks are gained if hitting an unhooked Survivor still affected by Endurance (or within 15 seconds, that's a decent starting point). Everything else should have stayed the same as the previous version.
This change would keep all the good from the perk (good chase perk for weaker/M1 Killers, average for the powerhouses, mitigates Endurance hits unless the Obsession gets in the way but the Killer has options to avoid losing stacks that are in their control alongside a mean to not tunnel) while fixing the bad (too powerful when camping and making attacking Survivors off the hook appealing).
The change is just making the perk much weaker for weaker Killers while not bothering stronger Killers while at the same time making tunnelling and camping more appealing than before. It's everything that could be wrong with a perk.
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Great, one of the biggest mistakes of the 7.5.0 update is going to be addressed thanks to feedback.
Hopefully the other 3 big mistakes of the update are also looked at, at some point.
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Boon: illumination is arguably the worst Boon perk to date, even worse than Dark Theory. The info it gives is outshined by other perks and even maps are more practical due to not being a time-sink for such a mediocre effect, not to mention the cleansing/blessing bonus it offers is also not only negligible but also outshined by another perk. The perk only has some semblance of value in a SWF, and even then it's better to just call out gen locations manually.
The perk is simply too inconsequential to be of any reliable value, especially in SoloQ which is the majority of games.
To be better, the perk, as it's name implies, could "illuminate" the Killer and act as a Boon version of Wiretap OR could perhaps reveal gen progress through aura intensity while inside the Boon, revealing totems & teammates as well as chests and gens could also be decent.
Champion of Light is a decent perk, not too powerful and not completely useless, it has decent synergy with Residual Manifest and can be used to make flashlight saves a bit safer. It doesn't really need any changes.
Deadline is utterly and completely worthless, in fact it's a detriment for inexperienced players since, while injured, it's akin to facing an easier version of Doctor when doing gens (and all of us long-time players can freely admit, our early days were rather difficult when going against skillcheck builds). If the stipulation to be injured was removed it would be a little better but it's mostly the "skillchecks appear at random places" that ruins the synergies it could have. Doing Hyperfocus skillchecks with Deadline is tough even for the average player.
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Sloppy Butcher is getting gutted into uselessness soon anyway (rip to the new players and free-to-play players that essentially only had Sloppy for anti-heal on weaker/M1 Killers, it's not like Nurse and Blight used it much) so healing is going to be easier across the board.
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Honestly, if CoH allowed self-heals BUT capped the self-healing speed at 50% then it wouldn't have been so bad, but it's when you add medkits/perks that it becomes too much. If it only boosted altruistic healing then a slow self-heal would have been fine.
If it didn't allow stacking inside the boon then it would have been fine in my opinion.
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I honestly think Singularity x Skull Merchant would be even worse than Knight x Skull Merchant.
Or even worse: if two Skull Merchants could tag-team...
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@PogbertChamperson said:
Skull Merchant is the ultimate litmus test for whether a person is capable of self-governing. To not play Skull Merchant is an easy, convenient task and one which we all recognize as the correct, appropriate thing to do. To not play Skull Merchant is objectively right. There are no situations other than dire emergencies in which a person is not able to avoid playing Skull Merchant. Simultaneously, it is not illegal to play Skull Merchant. Therefore the Skull Merchant presents itself as the apex example of whether a person will do what is right without being forced to do it.
No one will punish you for playing Skull Merchant, no one will fine you, or kill you for playing Skull Merchant, you gain nothing by not playing Skull Merchant. You must not play Skull Merchant out of the goodness of your own heart. You must not play Skull Merchant because it is the right thing to do. Because it is correct. A person who is unable to do this is no better than an animal, an absolute savage who can only be made to do what is right by threatening them with a law and the force that stands behind it.
Skull Merchant is what determines whether a person is a good or bad member of society.
That got a laugh out of me XD
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If it's not already the case, please do post this in the generator system feedback thread.
Maybe if enough speak up then the devs will deal with it and make it only activate during last gen.
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@RpTheHotrod said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3641858#Comment_3641858
Sure thing. You cannot kick a regressing gen. Since survivors now have complete control over if a gen regresses or not when repairing, they repair the gen to 4% then stop for a split second then begin repairs again. This resets their progress towards the 5% rule where a gen stops regressing after letting go. This means that survivors can force a gen to ALWAYS regress once they leave the generator. This effectively prevents the killer from ever being able to kick the gen for the entire match meaning any kick perks are impossible to use.
So, if you know a killer has pop goes the weasel, you can simply repair to 4%, stop, repair to 4%, stop, and repeat. If the killer ever chases you off, the gen immediately begins to regress, so the killer can never kick it to utilize the pop. If you know the killer isnt using kick gens, then just repair normally. Entirely in the survivors' hands.
We all told BHVR that this was an issue in the PTB, but it was disregarded, so BHVR knowingly put this in as a survivor tactic meaning any survivor teams using it have entirely eliminated any kick perks in the match. Using this tactic comes at a cost of gens regressing if not repairing them, but depending on the kick perks, it is extremely worth it - being able to eliminate pop alone is worth it. It also eliminates trail of torment, Dragon's Grip, eruption, machine learning, and other kick related perks. What's crazy is that this is basekit for survivors, so no need to bring a perk to counter all those killer perks (like distortion does, for example). Any game, survivors on demand can eliminate a host of killer perks from ever being used for the entirety of the match.
It's not even limited to just that oversight.
Limiting the number of kicks (plus whatever perk the Killer could bring) effectively makes perks like Nowhere to Hide, Surveillance, Machine Learning, Dragon's Grip and Trail of Torment a limited ressource despite not being regression perks.
Every time the Killer would kick a gen in order to gain stealth or take the gamble that a Survivor is close enough to see their aura (assuming they are not running OTR or Distortion) then they have to consider if it's even worth it since it will take 1/8th of their total regression events which can be vital later on.
If too many kicks/events are used mid-game, it's not uncommon that at least one of the last gens is almost out of regression events, making the 5th gen very hard to defend since (especially for slower/weaker/M1 Killers that can't afford to go too far) they have to prioritize the defense of that particular gen.
The idea behind the system is decent but it kills perks and Killer variety and viability as well as essentially punishing Killers for defending the gens mid-game or using certain perks. If at least it only activated during the last gen then it would be actually an Anti-3-gen system.
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@radiantHero23 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3641638#Comment_3641638
It just happens...
Its not too bad though. Stbfl is still her best perk by far. Its just sad that this change, for many pig players, will incentivise them even less to use the ambush.
The saddest part is that, since Ambush no longer saves stacks and the perk's chase power is reduced, it reinforces the egregious tunnelling playstyle that some Pigs use.
Down a Survivor, put a trap on them, hook them, crouch far away but keep the hook in sight, follow the Survivor when they get unhooked while in stealth, use STBFL to quickly hit bodyblockers before continuing following the trapped Survivor to interrupt any attempt to remove trap, rinse and repeat until either head pops or hook again then proxy camp with max STBFL stacks since it's the only thing the perk truly helps now.
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@Skitten56 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3641605#Comment_3641605
If it is determined that gens are getting blocked just by engaging in general gameplay, then it is reasonable that it should only be active during the last 3 gens. However as a trade off for this, it is also very reasonable that they re-add gen tapping to the game.
These 2 features were clearly designed to work together. The removal of gen tapping making it harder for them to stop regression in your face, leading to additional gen regression events when the killer has to kick it later. It exists to make it fair for killers so survivors can't abuse the 8 event limit. However if this feature only applies during the last 3 gens, then gen tapping should come back. I think between 8 or 12 regression events on the last 3 gens even if survivors can gen tap is reasonable.
To not make both of these changes at the same time would be shifting the balance around more than the devs are intending.
Whether it's 6 or 8 or 12 regression events, if there is any limit on regression then gen-tapping (as it was before) can't be a thing.
Who cares if it only works in the end if Survivors can instantly negate one of your limited regression events? If all 4 Survivors (or 3) are alive it won't change a thing for weaker/M1 Killers that simply don't have the means to efficiently stop 2 Survivors from roaming around one gen and tapping the gen everytime the Killer goes after one.
The system that's currently in place, if it only activated during the last gen, would be much better as it would prevent 40+ minutes matches without killing perk and Killer variety and viability.
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When you think about it, the ill-thought-out STBFL nerf was also indirectly a nerf to Pig since she was one of the most common users of the perk.
Somehow they managed to #NerfPig in a completely unrelated update again XD
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While there is technically a mechanic in place to punish AFK Killers (no imputs for too long inflicts a matchmaking penalty if I remember correctly), PC players can simply set up an auto-clicker and go eat or do something else.
Console players however, even if they are "afk" will still need to manually attack the air from time to time.
I honestly don't get afk Killers that do it to lower their MMR. If you want to lower your MMR then at least get as much bp as possible but without killing anyone, at least give the Survivors a decent game, Killer MMR works on kills and not hooks.
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@KayTwoAyy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3641531#Comment_3641531
So in summary, we nerfed one of the worst killers in the game.
The new gen system (and ill-thought-out STBFL nerf) have essentially nerfed every weak/slow/M1 Killers while leaving the powerhouses largely unnafected. In fact the bigger base kick damage and new Grim Embrace are arguably a buff to stronger Killers while weaker Killers don't benefit as much.
Blight and Nurse never needed to kick gens much or bring anything more than Pop and/or Pain Res (and even then, good Nurses and Blights didn't need slowdown at all) but every Killers on the weaker end of the spectrum does need some regression if they don't intend to turn the game into a 3v1 asap.
Not to mention non-regression perks kick perks (Nowhere to Hide, Surveillance, Machine Learning, Dragon's Grip, Trail of Torment etc.) now have a hard-limit and will chew through your regression events for temporary effects not related to gen-regression.
Side-note: the wrong STBFL nerf indirectly nerfed Pig since she was a common user of STBFL XD
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If the player DCed, the bot(s) will be tunnelled out for bp before hooking everyone else twice, after that I'm turning friendly. I got my points and they don't deserve to waste their time and points because of one or two people leaving.
If they died on first hook, I'm hooking everybody else twice, switching Survivors everytime If their skill level allows me to, then turning friendly. They don't deserve a miserable game and automatic loss because one or two people couldn't handle being hooked first. The only one being punished and missing out on points are the quitters.
A 3v1 at 4-5 gens is nearly impossible to come back from even if both sides are at roughly the same skill level (theres a reason why Killers, especially weaker/M1 Killers, tunnel at 5 gens, especially now that gen regression is limited and STBFL is worthless as anything else than a tool to make tunnelling even easier) and is the easiest path to at least a 3k.
As Survivor, if a teammate gives up at 4-5 gens then I fully expect the Killer to take advantage of the guaranteed victory and am aware that I'm not entitled to the same mercy I offer. I'll try to get as much points as possible but unless my remaining teammates are god loopers then I'm no longer hoping/playing to win.
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There's a rift challenge, a new perk and a new achievement tied to flashlight blinds, of course there's gonna be tons of flashlights for a while.
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For a full new chapter.
And probably another slew of changes for Onryo.
Hopefully a change of the "Anti-3-gen" system.
Depending on feedback.
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@MikaelaWantsYourBoon said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3640888#Comment_3640888
Yeah go for it , make this post us vs them.
Devs said they know issue with FtP + BU and looking for solution but yeah. Please continue us vs them when people simply point issues.
Wait, they acknowledged it? When? XD I missed it my bad. Hopefully the synergy is fixed at some point. The perks are perfectly fine on their own but the combo is obnoxious, especially in endgame.
It's not about us vs them (this mentality is part of the reason why people actually complain about accessibility features like FOV to mitigate motion-sickness and Visual TR for the hearing-impaired) its about how lots of changes are affecting weaker Killers a lot more than the powerhouses. STBFL was one of the most well-designed perks in the game because weaker/M1 Killers could use it to compensate for their weaker chase potential (at higher level, every seconds count) while Blight and Nurse (even Wesker was not a good STBFL user since going for M1 is actively weakening his slowdown potential) weren't really benefitting from it since they mostly relied on extremely powerful special attacks. Now it's weaker and it lost synergy with most Killers, the Killer will literally ignore the obsession entirely and tunnel aggressively since the perk is now at it's best when punishing saves and going after unhooked Survivors. All they had to do was deactivate the perk when too close to a hooked Survivor and not work on basekit BT, otherwise the perk was perfect.
The stronger Killers don't need slowdown to stand a chance against good teams. I've seldom seen a good Blight or Nurse use regression outside of Pop and Pain Res (arguably more than they even need) unless they were memeing or doing some kind of challenge (or a content creator). M1/weaker Killers, when they bring regression perks (or just kick perks like Nowhere To Hide, Surveillance, Machine Learning or Trail of Torment) have to use them often in-between chases to gain time/value, the current gen system punishes Killers for using those perks too much even before the last gen. I don't hate the idea of an Anti-3-gen system, 40+ minutes games are boring, but the system actively lowers perk variety and Killer variety while not bothering the powerhouses that never kicked gens much even before. If the system only kicked-in during the last gen then it wouldn't be as bad, it would still simplify Survivor gameplay since 3-gen situations would be easier to manage even if the Killer didn't mean to 3-gen BUT a Killer that 3-genned from the start would deal with a Survivor team in better shape than a Killer who chased and hooked the whole game, affecting the true problem more.