Skillfulstone
Skillfulstone
About
- Username
- Skillfulstone
- Joined
- Visits
- 7,617
- Last Active
Comments
-
@Devil_hit11 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3673661#Comment_3673661
Nurse has add-on fragile wheeze which applies mangled on special attacks. She was easily most popular killer to run mangled on. Maybe Spirit with MDR is close second, so the change is definitely directed to top tier killers.
If X Killer is too strong with Y add-on then they should nerf the ADD-ON instead of nerfing every Killer, including those that really don't need to struggle more, indirectly in an attempt to make the outlier manageable.
Sloppy Butcher was arguably the last good general and free Killer perk (NOED doesn't really count) since Surge became a licensed perk again when Stranger Things was brought back.
-
Another update without a word about fixing the Anti-3-gen system...
I'm still holding on to some hope...the only thing keeping me hoping is that the devs haven't locked this thread and didn't make a statement saying that the mechanic, in it's current form, is final. People don't even want it gone, they just want it to not severely limit perks and gen-defense for weaker/M1 Killers during the whole trial, that's all.
Too many people are currently speaking up about the rampant tunnelling and very low perk variety (Pain Res, Pop, Grim Embrace, DMS) without seeing that it's a direct consequence from how gen defense was limited.
Side-note; two of the new perks are gen-kick perks, one of which entirely relies on Survivors missing skillchecks (automatically making it a wasted slot the moment you go against Survivors with a kernel of experience) and takes a ridiculously long time to even acquire those tokens even with an entire build dedicated to hard skillchecks with Doctor. Same goes for Unforeseen, a mix between Dark Devotion and Trail of Torment and requires a kick that gives 0 extra slowdown for temporary stealth and a fake Terror Radius which automatically makes it mediocre since it takes away 1/8 regression events for maybe getting some value. Those two perks will be used for adepts/meme builds and then never really seen again outside of new users. It's baffling that two gen-kick perks, one of which not offering extra slowdown and the other being reliant on Survivor mistake to offer any meaningful slowdown, are added just after implementing a mechanic putting a hard-limit on regression that's easily reached with weaker/M1 Killers if Survivors are decent. I'd honestly try out those perks outside of adept if I wasn't forced to count every kicks the whole time.
Although who knows, maybe it's a sign that the mechanic is being looked at, after all, why release gen-kick perks giving little slowdown just after limiting gen-regression during entire trials?
-
Low-tier Killers can't even really use gen perks outside of Pain Res, Pop, Grim Embrace and usually DMS when going against half-decent Survivors. That's most games since 7.5.0 when they limited gen regression during the whole trial instead of simply making it activate during the last gen.
Using any other regression perks (or non-regression kick perks like Nowhere to Hide or Trail of Torment) is just putting those Killers at risk of being on the defensive if Survivors don't go down easy and the regression isn't enough to warrant being limited with perks other than Pop/Pain Res.
Nerfing Sloppy/Mangled was just a bad call because it's just removing yet another option for those Killers that used something else than gen regression. S-tier Killers (Blight, Nurse) didn't really use Sloppy because it doesn't work with M2 so they don't care but Killers like Wraith, Trapper and Ghosty are gonna miss this perk.
-
I'd say it's fairly balanced, main building is very strong against M1 Killers, with some good windows and a few nearby tiles but outside of main building and shack then the loops are fair without too many deadzones and even Killers on the weaker end of the spectrum can do something if main isn't close. It's not pallet-city but it provides enough.
Apart from the god windows in main, the map is fine in my opinion.
-
I mistakenly thought this was Garden of Joy when voting just because my exhausted mind saw "Withered Isle" XD why is there no way to retract/change your vote XD
But yeah, it's a bit soon for this kind of poll. I'd give a couple weeks so more experienced players can really discover the possibilities of this map.
-
@mizark3 said:
This is just a Surge issue, not a low-tier Killer issue. I run PR/Floods/Coup/Lethal and never have issues reaching 8 events on 1 gen while killing them (in 70%+ of matches) before they can pop the final. If you have enough Iri Cams you can even substitute Floods for something else like Bamboozle. I find lethality to be the most useful for Ghosty, but I also refuse to chase until I get 2-3 99s in early game. You can also replace a slowdown perk with the Driver's License if you engage in a heavy stalk playstyle. With DL you can somewhat frequently mark a second person mid chase on another injured person just to boot them off the gen and regress it.
Similarly with Clown I run Pop as my sole slowdown and also have no problems winning (again in 70%+) before the final gen pops. No Tombstone Myers I don't even run gen regression perks and run Thana/Plaything/Penti/(Coup or Bam 4th), although that build had a steep learning curve before I reached close to my Ghosty/Clown winrates (9/10 first matches were losses before I understood game flow to win).
If it was just a Surge issue the Surge is the only perk that would have been mentioned.
Quite frankly, Surge isn't the worst perk for this, Eruption is, in a way, far worse since it takes away 2 regression events for a measly 10% (which is literally just 2 base kicks, doesn't even stop Survivors from getting back on it instantly to get back the progress before the Killer can hook and go back, Eruption was less of a trash perk when kicks were 2.5% since it was at least better than 2 base kicks), combine it with Surge and more than 30% of your regression events are gone in one kick and one down.
But it's not just a perk issue. Weaker/slower/M1 Killers simply can't deal with Survivors that keep going for the same gens if the Survivors are half-decent in chase (or hiding). The system expects the Killers to wait until the gens have a high progress to regress them but gen-speed simply doesn't allow that, not kicking a gen that's above 30% in-between chases is just asking for a hidden Survivor(s) to come back to finish it (since a gen at 30% takes slightly less than a minute to complete and that's without any gen perks/items/multiple Survivors/great skillchecks), but kicking those gens when found can force the Killer in a bad spot in lategame if they are past the halfway point by the time there's one gen left.
To compensate for this, Killers have to do their upmost to get at least one person out asap, there's a reason why tunnelling has recently increased significantly and perk variety took a dive (Except for Pop and Pain Res there's effectively no regression perks being used often, all non-regression kick perks like Trail of Torment or Nowhere To Hide are basically gone). The mechanic is supposed to remove endless games without messing with normal games, it currently does affect normal games since this mechanic alone shifted the meta, reduced perk variety and made weaker/M1 Killers harder to play at a higher level. Endless games are obnoxious and the idea behind the mechanic isn't worthless but all it needs to be perfect is to only activate when there's one gen left.
-
@RpTheHotrod said:
BHVR, here is an example of how survivors can easily get a gen locked up in the first few minutes of the match. That means the majority of the match, the gen is permanently locked up meaning it's incredibly easy to get it repaired - especially for a vital central gen. This was about 2-3 minutes into the match. We already managed to cause the killer to lose HALF of his allotted charges! If it was eruption, it would have been twice as fast. The killer was chasing, downing, hooking, clearly not just sitting at the 3 gen and just camping. Despite all of this, he was severely punished by the game mechanic and lost a vital gen easily just because we kept ninjaing this center gen. What else could he have done? Just not kick it? Then we'd finish it even faster. This is ridiculous. This is even worst for m1 killers.
Yeah, it's come to a point where, in SWF at least (although not necessarily a 4-stack, a duo can do it) it's a decent strat to not complete a high-traffic gen on purpose but keeping it at a high progress (between 50% and 70% in order to somewhat mitigate a very likely PGTW and/or Pain Res since every other regression perks have basically disappeared) and simply stopping it from regressing. If, for some reason once in a blue moon, the Killer uses Eruption and/or Surge it's ridiculously easy.
Low-mobility/weaker/M1 Killers can't really afford to not kick an important gen (or any gen for that matter) with high progress in-between chases and eventually it'll be locked and we'll keep it for the end. Even if we 3-gen ourselves the Killer can't really move from the blocked (or nearly-blocked) gen so it's an easy endgame.
Whenever I SWF and we end up against one of those Killers I often propose to do this depending on the team. It's not really reliable against faster/stronger Killers since time is of the essence and pre-running isn't really effective (not to mention those Killers often have info and chase perks since they don't need gen defense or anti-heal/slowdown much so taking chases is risky) but it's very effective against the likes of Sadako, Ghosty, Nemesis and Pig if your teammates don't go down easy and the Killer doesn't feel like letting gens be at a high progress.
I never thought I'd say this after the horrid OverBrine Eruption meta, but I kinda miss seeing Surge and Eruption or Nowhere to Hide, Surge is still somewhat used but it's easy to have it backfire, add a handful of saves or successful sabos and a gen can be halfway-blocked within 4 downs.
-
Huh, that's actually a decent idea.
Only downside is that it might encourage Killers to play less "nice" since Survivors won't de-pip anyway.
Although since 7.5.0 tunnelling has been at an all-time-high so it might not change much.
Imo de-piping shouldn't be a thing anyway for either side. With how rampant tunnelling is, in almost every games there's at least one Survivor losing pips.
-
@humanbeing1704 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3672313#Comment_3672313
wasn’t a large reason it was changed was because constant dead man’s switch pain res was awful to play against
In the dev update that was posted for that change, one of the devs (I believe Peanits) literally mentioned that one of the main reason they changed it was because campers could just repeatedly use the same hook to use Pain Res like 7 times ("hook recycling").
DMS is still a potent combo with it and it's now even stronger with Grim Embrace (in fact nearly every games is a mix of Pain Res, Pop, DMS and Grim Embrace due to the good slowdown it offers without blocking the gens early despite not wanting to 3-gen).
It was among the best slowdown perks in the game then and it's arguably the best one now despite it's flaws since almost every other ones are now counter-productive.
-
The perk only activates 4 times (at most) per match, tokens can be utterly wasted by triggering on a gen below 25% progress, despite this, people have been complaining about Pain Res since 7.5.0. And it's because every other regression perks (and non-regression kick perks) except Pop took a serious blow ever since they limited regression events. It's basically in every game now and understandably so.
I honestly believe Pain Res should never have been changed in the first place, 15% per uses was fine, at most it should have made Scourge Hook change locations every time someone got unhooked from a Scourge Hook to prevent "Hook recycling" by campers.
-
I honestly care little about the actual Killer and more about the playstyle being used. At best the Killer used will simply increase or decrease my hopes of escaping, not the fun potential (although Skull Merchant admittedly puts me in the "lets just get this over with" mindset and Nurse/Blight are making me play for bp more than actually escaping).
I don't care about dying if I didn't get tunnelled out quicker than the time I was in lobby. Killers that don't tunnel (at least not at 4-5 gens) are gigachads.
If they don't BM then more power to them. A Killer that demolished my team but still goes "gg" in the post-game chat will get props.
If they don't slug for the 4k then even more power to them. Not many things more boring than being forced to afk for 4 minutes.
I'd much rather die in a lengthy, action-packed tight match than escape through Hatch after watching my teammates get tunnelled and proxy-camped to death before 2 gens are done (it's one of the many reasons I stopped playing SoloQ ever since 7.5.0, it's been a common occurrence since then).
-
@Chaosrider said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3672175#Comment_3672175
You obviously didnt play the game the last 5-6 years otherwise you wouldnt make such a false statement.
I mean, fussy's post has some form of truth. In the game's "early days" (more like the first few years) Survivors had some ridiculously abusable stuff and SWF were far more busted than now (go watch "The downfall of Bully Squads" by Ardheta on Youtube, it's an interesting watch) and over time the devs did things to equalize the playing field (or at least not make playing Killer basically torture).
In my opinion the game was at it's most balanced and fun state between 6.1.0 and 7.5.0. Except for a few temporary bumps (old Skull Merchant, old MFT etc.) the game was in it's most stable state.
They recently messed up hard in the 7.5.0 update and 7.6.0 doesn't fix any of the issues from the previous update (in fact it makes a few things worse, hopefully a hotfix or update makes things better soon, getting tired of the same 6 Killers using the same 5 perks and someone getting tunnelled at 5 gens almost every game alongside Survivors giving up on 1st hook more than ever and M1 Killers being more stressful and difficult to play than before).
It's not rare to hear some players saying something along the line of "the game was better before" because the game was horribly unbalanced in the past.
-
@RpTheHotrod said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3671661#Comment_3671661
While this quote here may sound like it's being "mean", it's generally the truth. The game is killer favored at low MMR, generally balanced around mid MMR, and survivor sided at high MMR. If you're feeling like the killer is unstoppable, once you get more experience, you'll start learning about just how much power survivors have over the survivor with various perks and map elements. A LOT of it also comes down to how coordinated a team is, so a bunch of people just randomly playing without any teamwork will have a much harder time than a team completely working together.
Hell, a few years ago the lead Dev himself said in a live show that he was aware that at a lower skill level the game favored Killers and the more people played well the more Survivors start to get an edge.
-
I'm frankly baffled about what on Earth happened for all 4 Survivors to DC (likely at least one of them getting a penalty).
Like, I've been in a handful of games where the first person downed too quickly DCs or gives up on hook (likely because they assume they're gonna get tunnelled out, an assumption I understand ever since 7.5.0 even though DCing isn't the answer) and then one or two Survivors follow because they lose hope on that game (again, understandable unless in a SWF but still disappointing).
But for all 4 to DC is something I've only seen against Skull Merchants using a VPN XD what kind of team does that in normal games XD
-
This perk, even before it's buff, is not a "Survivor" perk, it's a SWF perk.
SWF teams can use this global BNP to make 3-gens much easier to break or simply send someone (ideally either their weakest link or best looper) on death hook to use it, not like being in the open while on 2nd hook isn't a big "tunnel me" sign these days anyway. Going out of their way to check basement to kill that Survivor will give lots of time to teammates anyway.
Adding to that the "Anti-3-gen system" and it further puts pressure on weaker/M1 Killers to defend gens and shortens the window to stop progress (now a limited thing).
The perk will be a literal handicap in SoloQ but can be actually good in a coordinated SWF due to the Survivors being able to use the "global BNP" optimally.
-
@Gabe_Soma said:
I am failing to understand the point of all of this.
Never seen a killer hit the 8 gen regression limit nor did I, this is just a Surge problem ,which leads to more gen exploding at the same time, and only 8% so this leads to them not regressing much, forcing you to kick them all the time (which you did).
The mechanic is simply a band-aid for poor map design and generator spawning, and if you add to this the fact that the size of the maps has decreased over time, it is much easier to run into such a situation. Activating it when you are just at the end would be useless, precisely because it is too late.
In the only game you lost (and whose ending you cut out for some reason) you stayed the whole time in the central area of the map, in the other 2 I don't understand the problem, you won and you were constantly complaining like 'oh no another regression', as if this one was activated without sending down the survivors and so you were playing your game well.
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3669326#Comment_3669326
If I were you I would try buffering my hands instead since this percentage that you have fished out is a symptom of a problem that only you have.
By making the mechanic only trigger at the end it would make it actually do what it's meant to do: remove endless 3-gen matches without affecting normal gameplay.
And it's not just a Surge problem, actually reaching 8 kicks before the last gen is not common, it's the fact that all regression perks except Pop and Pain Res simply offer too little for being a limited ressource, killing perk variety.
It also makes non-regression kick perks (Nowhere to Hide, Surveillance, Machine Learning, Dragon's Grip, Trail of Torment, Unforeseen soon etc.) a risk to bring since they aren't meant to regress gens (5% is nothing) but still take away a regression event. At a higher level it's simply not worth the risk for so little reward. Reducing perk variety and viability further.
If the last gen isn't part of a 3-gen then limit or not, the Killer likely loses. However tight matches that end in a 3-gen that the Killer didn't intend to do will often put the Killer in a bad spot anyway if they dared kick/regress one of those gens 3-5 times (something easily doable if Survivors keep divebombing a gen and the Killer doesn't feel like not kicking the gen in-between chases for a tiny bit of time) during the game. Even though the Survivors put themselves in that situation, the Killer essentially lost because thry can't afford to patrol or chase since that gen will be impossible to regress soon (which basically means a loss).
If it only kicked-in at the end, then Survivors that end up in a 3-gen will have a tough time (as they should in this kind of situation) BUT the Killer won't be able to play chess for 50 minutes since they will have a limit (said limit being easily reached if stacking slowdown, so bye-bye Chess Merchant).
If the Survivors avoid a 3-gen at the end successfully then it doesn't matter if there's a limit or not anyway since the Killer can't be in 3 places at once.
-
Well, new dev update dropped and not one word on fixing the Anti-3-gen system to make it what it is supposed to do.
Here's to hoping we are listened to for a hotfix or another update soon.
Until then, let's keep seeing Pain Res, Pop, Grim Embrace and DMS on the same handful of Killers alongside someone getting tunnelled at 5 gens ridiculously often.
-
Apparently my message was duplicated? First one didn't register so I wrote another then both popped up, I can't delete posts so this was an accidental near-copy of the previous post.
-
@RpTheHotrod said:
I have 3 videos below that's relevant to the discussion.
BHVR's intention for the 8 regression limit is to utilize a number where normal matches should not be affected by the 8 regression limit. It's supposed to essentially prevent killers who just camp 3 gens from the beginning of the match who generally refuse to actually advance the match. They won't chase, won't down, and won't hook unless its at the 3 gen - essentially trying to have the match last as long as possible. While some survivors can 3 gen themselves naturally in a match, this was more targeted at killers who sit at the 3 gens from the very beginning of the match. Accordingly to BHVR, normal matches should pretty much NEVER hit an 8 regression limit. In fact, the number of "rare" regression events is less than 8, but BHVR set it to 8 as a buffer.
However, BHVR had done a critical miscalculation on this concept. The expectation of a "normal" match is that the killer will be naturally flowing throughout the map and not having to focus in any particular area. This essentially means the expectation is that gen regression will be spread throughout the map, so no particular gens are being focused on for defense. The problem with this logic is that there is specifically two situations where the killer MUST focus defense on certain gens and CANNOT defend other gens.
- The weaker M1 killers have no ability to traverse the map in an efficient matter. These killers cannot afford to take the long roadtrips that some of the gens require. Some gens are so extremely far from each other in a far corner, that getting there comes at the cost of a LOT of lack of pressure and free repair times for all survivors. This is even worse when you consider that most survivors leave those far away gens to be the last ones to repair (smart move). Even if the killer took the 500 mile roadtrip to those far gens, those gens might not even be worked on. That's all time of a lack of killer presence and pressure. With the m1 weaker killers, since they cannot afford to take those long road trips to extremely far gens, they NATURALLY are strongly encouraged to stay more in the center of the map where gens are more readily accessible. With this being forced on the weak m1 killers with no map traversal, that "regression should be spread across all the gens" concept from BHVR just isn't realistic. Those m1 killers generally have a much smaller "area of operations" which means the gens being regressed is reduced to just 3 or 4 gens on average. Due to this, m1 killer matches with no map traversal abilities have a MUCH higher chance at hitting the 8 regression limit even if they are NOT camping. Even with chasing, downing, and advancing the killer objectives, the gens that get hit tend to be centralized gens (centralized meaning gens that are in the center of the map - for example the main building at the ski resort). This situation is even worse when survivors are literally all focused on center gens - even less of a reason to ever take a roadtrip to the gens on the edge of the map. If survivors are not touching edge gens, and all survivors are in the center of the map, the killer has no place to be BUT at the center. This essentially causes a situation where weak m1 killers are even WEAKER. At this point, not even regression perks can save them. If the killer is actually getting downs, things like surge will hit these gens and add up the 8 charges super fast.
- Many survivors are dedicating all of their focus on centeralized gens or otherwise are gens close to each other). When survivors are ONLY repairing centralized gens and are not repairing gens on the outer perimeter, then the killer has no reason to be at any gens OTHER than those centralized gen. That means once the killer regresses a center gen then goes off chasing a survivor to hook them, survivors rush in and immediately repair that gen, so once they get back and try to regress the gen again, once they chase another survivor, survivors fly in and begin repairs again. With no gens being repaired anywhere else on the map - and survivors are all in the center - the killer literally has zero reason to be anywhere BUT the center of the map. Other gens are are 0% and aren't being repaired, and survivors aren't anywhere else but in the center. This isn't the killer "camping a 3 gen", this is the killer being forced to remain present in the center. This means that every regression event is entirely forced to be on center gens. This causes the 8 regression limit to hit very fast - ESPECIALLY if a regression perk is brought such as surge or eruption. This is punishing killers for "3 gen camping" when the reality is that the survivors are forcing it on the killer - and if the killer isn't actually camping it and chasing a survivor away and downing them, they are going to obviously lose the gens, there. Those centralized gens get so much survivor attention, the 8 regression limit gets hit fast - the killer can only realistically commit a chase to one survivor ata time which means the other 3 survivors will recover from the 5% within mere seconds. Just to be clear, I'm not talking about a survivor chasing people away then going back to the gen, I'm talking about the killer commiting to a chase and downing a survivor. After they hook the survivor, the other survivors are all at the center, and no non-central gens are being worked on. The only place for the killer to be is right back to the center.
Again, to be clear, BHVR said that hitting the 8 regression limit is EXTREMELY rare and should ONLY affect killers who intend to sit and camp at a 3 gen from the beginning of the match. Those killers don't chase or hook but just park their butts at the gens and not move away from them. However, this simply isn't accurate with the two common scenarios above.
Here are some matches where the killer doesn't camp, leaves the gens often, commits to chases, and hooks - clearly doing the killer objective and advancing the match. However, in all three of these cases, the 8 regression limit was hit. One of the matches lead to a loss because of the inability to regress a key gen, and the other two ended with a win - but even a small mistake could have lead to a killer loss. Again, win or lose, the point is to show that the 8 regression limit should essentially never happen in normal matches isn't accurate, and it's actively making weak m1 killers even weaker.
PLEASE NOTE: the following videos isn't about what could have been done better - there is always a hindsight of 20 20 for both player teams of what could have been done better. Instead, this is to merely show that the 8 limit absolutely IS affecting matches where the killer isnt just guarding gens from the beginning of the match and refusing to comitt to chases - and it's negatively affecting the killers who are already historically the weakest in the game at mid to high mmr (m1 killers with no map traversal).
Some commentary on the issue while the limit is hit at the halfway point of the match. In this match, the survivors entirely focus on the gens in the center of the map and completely ignore gens on the far side of the map. This forced the match to be in a much smaller area. I'm specifically not camping the 3 gen, so the "3 gen" is actually lost early on prior to the 8 regression limit being hit. Despite there literally being no 3 gen situation (since I didn't camp it, it was broken early), the limit still hit.
Match result of a loss due to the inability to regress a key gen in the center
Another 8 regression hit on a centralized gen due to survivors focusing on the gen and disregarding others.
Clearly, the whole "this should never happen in normal matches" is incorrect and is negatively affecting already weak killers. If this is indeed supposed to only hurt 3 gen situations, then it should only come into affect if there's only 3 gens left. Survivors obviously can end up 3 genning themSELVES with this concept - but we already have that anyway right now and still get hit with limits. Either that, or perks that promote the killer to advance the objective by getting downs\hooks should NOT count towards the regression limit since if they are advancing the objective, they clearly aren't just sitting on the gens and never leaving. Things like surge\pop\pr and such shouldn't trigger an event since they all require the killer to actively down\hook survivors instead of just camping gens and never leaving.
One final thing, BHVR is making playing a "fair" killer incredibly difficult for m1 killers. I don't face camp, I try to avoid double hooking, I try to avoid tunneling, I don't just sit and camp at a 3 gen, and that's already making it difficult as-is when I could otherwise just tunnel and get a big leg up. With this, it's making an already frustrating experience (to play "fair" and deal with the toxic survivors that beat you over the head with it) even more frustrating, because now you're also getting entirely locked out of a game mechanic that was implemented to give killers a chance. Every patch, there is less room to play fair and killers are getting more and more compelled to tunnel due to how many restrictions are being applied to them. Now, there was always tunnelers, absolutely - but the killers who prefer to play in a more "fair" way are getting pushed into extinction. All we will have left at some point are the type of killers no one really wants to face. Being "nice" is quickly becoming not an option if you want a chance at winning the match. Instead of constantly punishing killers globally by restricting them more and more, how about giving legitimate incentives to play in a more fair manner? Give killers a positive reinforcement on not tunneling, for example. Reward a mori dynamically in the match for no one getting hooked twice in a row in quick succession, have strong perks that activate with a non tunnel condition, etc...
Thank you for coming to my DED Talk.
God finally a complete and concise post in the feedback thread about the EXACT thing I've been saying for weeks now.
The worst thing is that it's not even just that it makes weaker/M1 Killers even more stressful to play, it's the fact that the "Anti-3-gen system", since it's active the whole trial, essentially also kills every non-regression kick perks (Nowhere to Hide, Surveillance, Dragon's Grip, Trail of Torment, soon Unforeseen etc.) since trying to get perk value automatically means losing 1 of 8 regression events for the chance to get value. The moment a Killer reaches the MMR where Survivors starts to know what they are doing, those perks become more of a risk than a help since they simply offer too little.
Ever since 7.5.0, I'm not sure I've been in more than 3 Survivor games in a row without at least one of them facing a Killer running Pain Res, Grim Embrace, Pop and something else (usually DMS) and having one person get tunneled at 4-5 gens. Tunneling is in a horrible state and it's almost better to prepare to get tunneled rather than just hope it doesn't happen. Both sides have been affected negatively by this, the only ones who don't really care about it are god-tier Survivors that can deal with tunneling and S-tier Killers that didn't need nor used regression much to begin with.
Simply making the 3-gen countermeasure only kick-in at 1 gen remaining would make most of those issues irrelevant.
Please BHVR listen to people saying and showing that it IS affecting normal matches, especially when playing weaker/slower/M1 Killers that already struggle more when climbing the MMR ladder. The system isn't worthless, the idea is good, but it's currently not an Anti-3-gen system, it's currently an anti-regression system and it shouldn't be.
-
@Emeal said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3667428#Comment_3667428
It all depends on whether your games align with what the developers consider 'normal.' From my perspective, it seems like you're having a challenging experience due to the impact of Surge and Pop Goes the Weasel.
None of your three videos seems excessively unfair either, You even win most of them.
The point isn't really losing or winning (although the sheer fact that the mechanic can cause a loss by itself despite not 3-genning and chasing/hooking Survivors should be a red flag that the mechanic still needs some work, regardless if it's common or not) it's the fact that it does affect normal matches, more so for Killers that already struggled before. Killers now need to count their regression events because they are vital later in the game when there's only one or two gens left and having gen(s) past the halfway point is very dangerous and forces the Killer on the defensive despite not intending to stall the game.
-
Pop , new GE and Pain Res being far more common recently is easily explained.
Since 7.5.0, every instances of regression counts, as such the Killer, especially if playing a Killer on the weaker end of the spectrum, must make all slowdown count in order to not end up on the defensive if Survivors are good enough to not die until the 4th gen pops since regression is very important in lategame if there are still 3 or more Survivors alive (it's also the reason why tunnelling became much worse since the Anti-3-gen system).
Pain Res and Pop offer the best regression per activations, even if they have limited uses, which makes them the logical choice in order to reduce the risks of regressing a gen too much if Survivors keep going back to the same gen. Perks like Surge and Eruption simply don't offer enough slowdown for 1/8th regression events.
Grim Embrace, especially on mobile Killers, is also a logical choice to replace regression/slowdown perks as it offers 12 guaranteed seconds of slowdown on every first hooks and 40 seconds on the 4th one, arguably offering more overall slowdown than any other slowdown perk without spending precious regression events that might be vital later in the game. Weaker/slower Killers also love this perk as even the 12 seconds makes them able to start patrolling without having to fear of gens popping before they reach one after a hook.
With every regression perks (and non-regression kick perks) being made a limited ressource during the entire trial when facing decent teams, choosing perks that can save more of that ressource is obvious.
-
The game would basically become unplayable for certain Killers and queue times would be beyond ridiculous.
The stronger the Killer, the longer the queue times. And people who wouldn't block the powerhouses are likely god-tier SWF/comp teams or newcomers, completely removing any kind of fair matches.
Sure, Skull Merchant and Knight would basically disappear (not exactly a big loss) but it would do way more harm than good.
It would also mess with new content feedback, how are devs supposed to get feedback on new Killers/perks if 90% of the playerbase blocks the new Killer because it's too strong for their taste?
-
@Rokku_Rorru said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3666372#Comment_3666372
I feel having more meaningful healing slowdown that isn't insanely uninteractive is the better solution than applying a blanket debuff which makes so many niche perks further useless (Resurgence and reactive healing).
By making it more enticing to heal as a meta, you will have people risking less time to be on gens and heal, especially in casual games. It also makes games less snowbally, the likes of Spirit making the perks extremely toxic honestly.
This perk needs to go to make way for better killer healing slowdown, we still have gift of pain, blood echo, leverage, coulrophobia. None of these perks compare to sloppy, infact so many addons don't even compare to sloppy's value. They even gave that explanation, it's just too good for what it does.
@VomitMommy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3666431#Comment_3666431
None of these perks compare to sloppy
Well, that's because they are trash. There is a reason why almost noone plays them...
They are not really balancing standard we should aim for.
The answer isn't to nerf good things, it's to buff useless things.
Buff Resurgence so that it's healing progress is impossible to regress (or at least make it so there's a time window during which the progress cannot regress).
Buff Reactive Healing the same way: any healing progress gained by the perk cannot be lost.
So many old worthless perks could be reworked or buffed to be at least decent and useable in current DBD.
Nerfing popular/good perks that weren't game-breaking without some sort of alternative is just inviting players to tunnel/camp more.
Sloppy wasn't game-breaking, it was a basic perk that Killers using basic attacks used in order to get some anti-heal without having to jump through hoops. After the next update, there's officially no remaining starter and free perks for Killers except for NOED (but ideally you don't want to use NOED too much since it's the ultimate crutch that essentially makes people not learn how to play the game.) that are good at most levels of play without making the game play itself. It doesn't deserve to get nerfed, especially a nerf that doesn't do anything when against newcomers but makes the perk arguably counterproductive against experienced players.
Variety is one of the main reasons DBD outlives every other assyms and the less variety there is, the less new players want to stick around.
-
@Rokku_Rorru said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3665739#Comment_3665739
Sloppy isn't even "killed", it's stupid the value it got for such little effort, a blanket debuff which is unremoveable is never good design. Let survivors remove it in some way then defend it. Which it has now, it's still going to be a good perk lmao
Ok let's use simple comparisons, assuming Survivors are using altruistic healing with NO healing perks or medkits (Botany Knowledge alone, a starter perk, completely nullifies Mangled);
Current Sloppy vs Inexperienced/Casual players: Provides slowdown by slowing down healing (by a few seconds), those kinds of players, due to inexperience and/or lack of confidence in their looping skills, will quickly heal when they can which will make them waste more time.
Current Sloppy vs Experienced/SWF players: Provides minimal slowdown due to those kinds of players being not only better at looping but also not hesitating to do gens instead of healing immediately, if Resilience is brought then being injured effectively shaves off a few seconds off of gens. However if/when they heal they HAVE to deal with the extra healing time eventually, possibly giving a hint of slowdown. This makes hit'n run playstyles semi-useful even against good players.
Now let's compare to what will happen (and what did happen during the PTB) with Mangled on a timer shall we?
Post-nerf Sloppy vs Inexperienced/Casual players: Provides slowdown by slowing down healing (by a few seconds), those kinds of players, due to inexperience and/or lack of confidence in their looping skills, will quickly heal when they can which will make them waste more time. Effectively making little to no difference from before it was on a timer.
Post-nerf Sloppy vs Experienced/SWF players: Provides effectively no slowdown due to those kinds of players being not only better at looping but also not hesitating to do gens instead of healing immediately, which means that if the Killer can't guarantee a down then experienced players will simply slam gens during the timer and get healed at normal speed after. With possibly Resilience this means that Sloppy Butcher might as well be a Survivor perk against good Survivors since no slowdown will be gained and Survivors will do gens faster until being healed at normal speed.
Now, let's follow the Killer logic here;
Why would weaker/M1 Killers (you know, the ones that actually used this perk commonly since powerful Killers like Nurse, Blight, Alien and Wesker don't really M1 that much since they don't really need to and using M1 attacks instead of their power is borderline handicapping themselves) use a perk that offers no slowdown as soon as Survivors know what they are doing? They can't afford to drop chase anymore since doing so would just mean that Survivors will repair gens injured while waiting out the timer and if they try to kick gens/use regression perks early (to compensate for anti-heal providing less slowdown) then they are setting themselves up for failure in the lategame if they can't guarantee at least 2 kills by the time the 4th gens is done.
So the obvious solution? More tunnelling out the first Survivor and use only Pop, Pain Res, Grim Embrace and something else (likely DMS), something that's been on the rise ever since 7.5.0 and that no one likes, not even Killers like to tunnel since it's boring and repetitive and only spreads toxicity.
-
@VomitMommy said:
What about buffing other regression perks, so there are options?
3-gen system destroyed most regression perks. There is not much you can do other than Pop/Pain res right now, which is just sad.
I loved using alternatives and trying to make it work, but you just get punished for it now, so why bother?
@Blueberry said:
Those perks are fine, other slow downs need to be brought up to their level. The limited kicks change also killed off other options and was a bad change imo.
Literally just making the Anti-3-gen kick-in after the 4th gen is completed would fix all those perks being unusable (and also restoring the non-regression kick perks that got gutted at the same time). I'd take basic kicks going back to 2.5% if it's the price to pay, 5% isn't much anyway.
Someone trying to 3-gen with 4 slowdowns at the end would demolish their regression events and if they didn't chase & hook Survivors during the game then they would have to deal with a team in better shape than a Killer that ended up in a 3-gen that they didn't intentionally create.
-
You can't force people to play a game they don't want to play.
Prevent giving up on 1st hook somehow? People will afk under hooks after being unhooked.
Create an afk penalty for Survivors? They'll throw themselves at the Killer and purposefully bleedout (moving to prevent teammates getting them up) if the Killer doesn't pick them up after downing them.
Remove/slow down bleedout timer? They will find an item and drop/pick up repeatedly until killed or dead by EGC (item interactions, including picking up, prevents afk crows, a rather popular strat for selfish Survivors good enough to survive until the end and, in case of their team dying, then hide to try to go for Hatch without afk crows revealing them).
With tunnelling at an all-time-high since 7.5.0 (all regression sources except for Pop & Pain Res were made redundant when going against decent teams, weaker Killers in particular were hit hard by this update so it was not surprising, people in the 3-gen system feedback thread even called it and provided possible solutions that were ignored, I still hope BHVR will listen and simply make the mechanic only activate after the 4th gen is done) people giving up on 1st hook was bound to increase at the same time (if they're gonna get tunnelled anyway then might as well just go next).
-
The perk only activates 4 times (at most) per match, tokens can be utterly wasted by triggering on a gen below 25% progress, every other regression perks (and non-regression kick perks) took a serious blow ever since 7.5.0 and are arguably not worth using when climbing the MMR ladder due to them possibly backfiring in late-game if Survivors don't go down easy. Simply making the anti-3-gen mechanic kick-in after the 4th gen is done would basically make those issues manageable while only punishing Killers holding a 3-gen at the end.
I don't like the Pain Res, Pop, Grim Embrace, DMS and tunnelling meta we currently deal with (imo the game was at it's most stable from 6.1.0 until before 7.5.0 except for a few bumps) but it's understandable given the slowdown needed when going against good Survivors. Combined with the STBFL and upcoming Sloppy nerf then weaker/M1 Killers need to compensate somehow. The limited regression events simply make Pain Res the logical choice as it offers the best regression for a single activation which mitigates the risk of running low on regression events too early.
I honestly believe Pain Res should never have been changed in the first place, 15% per uses was fine, at most it should have made Scourge Hook change locations every time someone got unhooked from a Scourge Hook to prevent "Hook recycling" by campers.
-
1: Dead Man's Switch isn't a regression perk, nor is it really good on it's own.
2: Pop and Pain Res, ever since the 7.5.0 update, are the only regression perks worth using as they give good regression per activation. With only 8 regression events per generator, using any other regression perks (or non-regression perk like Nowhere to Hide, Surveillance, Dragon's Grip, Trail of Torment, Unforeseen soon etc.) simply doesn't provide enough slowdown per uses at a higher level.
3: Pop and Pain Res, while arguably the only valid option outside of low MMR now, was always a common combo.
4: Let the weaker/M1 Killers have some options, it's bad enough that regression, non-regression kick perks, Sloppy Butcher and STBFL got killed (all perks that benefited weaker/M1 Killers far more than the powerhouses) are weaker, tunnelling is at an all-time high since 7.5.0, we do not need even more good Killer perks to be killed making tunnelling and proxy-camping even worse.
-
@Marc_go_solo said:
A few rough ideas (probably op in some cases, but hey)
1. Recovers 1 hook state.
2. Reconstructs x number of pallets and uprights any fallen ones.
3. Permanently sabotages x amount of Scourge Hooks.
4. Permanent increased recovery speed of any exhaustion perks/ removes negative status effects quicker.
5. Removes a Killer Perk permanently, in exchange for a hook state.
6. Generates extra x chests around the map.
1: That's actually a decent idea, 2 minutes is a very long time but depending on the team it can be a decent investment.
2: Also a pretty cool idea, however it should be map-dependant OR be percentage-based to be fair (some maps are stacked with pallets while others are barren wasteland).
3: Absolutely not, this would equate to remove a Killer's perks. It's bad enough that all regression perks (and non-regression kick perks) except for Pain Res & Pop were made redundant (especially for weaker Killers) but outright being able to remove a perk shouldn't be a thing (Hex perks are enough), this would cause massive backlash.
4: Good idea, however the time and penalty for this should be smaller than the current one we have.
5: Absolutely not, see n#3 for reference.
6: Way too weak of an effect to warrant time-investment AND a penalty, there's offerings for that exact effect. What it could do is make every chests contain a purple or Iri quality item (for a small time-investment and penalty since chests themselves are time-investments).
-
It's pretty well-balanced (wide open, no structures are overly strong or abusable since it's latest tweak, very little hook deadzones, decent pallet density), however it's one of the maps that was greatly affected negatively by the Anti-3-gen system.
Due to middle-gen in main building being the most important generator to complete early to avoid a 3-gen situation, Survivors will obviously keep coming back to it which often makes the Killer have to kick it (since simply conceding gen progress for the sake of keeping kicks for later, risking it being completed while away for a short time, isn't exactly normal). It is also not rare to see perks such as Surge (downing Survivors shortly after chasing them away from the gen) and Pain Resonance (it is often the generator with the highest progress and is often hit at least twice if Survivors prioritize it) add to this and chew through regression events on this generator quickly and, if the Survivors don't go down easy, is one of the easiest gens to accidentally block early, automatically putting the Killer in a very disadvantageous position if there is at least 3 Survivors alive when 1 generator remains. If the system only kicked-in at the end then this problem would be essentially gone.
Apart from this, this map is one of the most balanced maps in the game in my opinion and doesn't need any major changes outside of maybe adding a hook or two in corners as it is common for experienced Survivors to purposefully either sabotage or have one Survivor die on a corner hook, making this corner safe due to lack of other hooks.
-
While I think everything was said about this map, it bears repeating;
Main building, against weaker/M1 Killers, is one of the closest things to an infinite we still have. Add that with the vault in front of main and at least two pallets around it and it's the go-to spots to run Killers for ages, not to mention the fences which Survivors can run much better than those Killers.
If basement doesn't spawn in main building, Survivors can almost always guarantee to wiggle from the Killer's grasp if they fall in the underground part of main unless the Killer brought Iron Grasp and/or Agitation. A Survivor with Boil Over can fully guarantee to be unhookable unless those perks were brought.
I believe that a single hook in the underground part of main (if basement doesn't spawn there) and a slight weakening of main building and it's surroundings in general would be a good first step.
-
This map is, in my opinion, one of the most rng-affected maps in the entire game.
I can't say it favors Killers because most killers (not counting the ones that either have insane mobility or ignore pallets), depending on pallet rng, will struggle if the map decides that theres 10 pallets mere meters from each other, each of them safe. Not to mention main building being strong and some older loops still being present in this map and tall grass creating good hiding spots in plain sight.
Yet I also can't say it's really Survivor-sided because, depending on rng, almost the entire middle area can be a deadzone and it's one of the strongest maps for totems since most are actually well-hidden and/or in a far corner which greatly reduces the chance of a potential Hex totem to be cleansed. Not to mention the abundant tall grass makes some Killers stronger than they are in other maps (Trapper, Hag, Chucky, Skull Merchant to some extent etc.).
I'd say it's mostly balanced but rng can have slightly more effect on Killers than Survivors and weaker/M1 Killers can have some serious trouble in main building and tall grass.
Quite frankly it mostly just needs a bit of tall-grass-trimming and more spread out tiles to really be balanced. Also a bit of a visual makeover to follow the other realms would be nice.
-
@Crowman said:
Even if you removed the 30 second cooldown, Eruption still counts as 2 triggers for the anti-3 gen system. So as long as that is the case, Eruption is going to hurt you more than it helps.
@xltechno said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3664159#Comment_3664159
Well, it's still worth bringing. I think it's fine if killer want to use it properly.
..........What really needs to be fixed is 3genning, but it can't be helped since many survivors have abandoned the tactic. Our voices will not be heard.
Yeah...Eruption is pretty much dead, even if you don't bring any other regression perks (or non-regression kick perks) then it'll just chew through regression events and the payoff simply isn't worth it.
There's a reason why basically all regression perks and kick perks except for Pop and Pain Res are gone: they offer to little regression for a very limited use.
If a gen blocks, or just gets past halfway, then if Survivors are decent then it's pretty much gg if there's still 3 alive at least at the last gen.
All these perk issues would basically go away if the system only activated during the last gen.
-
I am of the opinion that a "die" button should exist for slugs if only 2 Survivors remain when slugged for 30 seconds.
However using this "give up" button would trigger the "death by Entity" animation that plays when dying by EGC and would count as a full sacrifice (3 hook actions) and not bleedout (to satisfy challenges, emblems and bp).
This would give Survivors an option to just go next instead of having to wait 4 minutes and Killers wouldn't lose much since slugging for 4k would still give a minimum of 30 seconds to find the other one (pretty generous depending on the Killer).
-
While I'm pretty sure this is satire (and the general word choices kinda makes it feel even more over-the-top, "Trapper's dominance" and "Overwhelming presence" are not words I would ever associate with Trapper) it needs to be said:
Trapper is probably one of the least deserving Killer to need a nerf in the name of game-health.
-
@appleas said:
Tunneling is not something new. Posts like yours are not new. If devs have refused to completely eliminate tunneling or make it a reportable offense on year 8 of the game, there's a good reason for it.
Their vision and your vision of how survivor gameplay should be probably differ, whether you choose to accept their vision and continue to play their game is up to you. Good luck OP
Tunnelling isn't new at all, it's been there (to a lesser degree) since day 1. It's simple: It's the easiest and most efficient way to win and getting one Survivor out early is the best slowdown. For players wanting to win, it's the best option. Although basekit BT made it a bit harder, making it downright impractical requires several perks and even those are often wasted.
However ever since 7.5.0 it's been so much worse than before and I can understand why: Killers, especially those on that aren't powerhouses (which is like 80% of them) have taken a serious blow to their gen slowdown since the ill-thought-out "Anti-3-gen system" since all regression perks (alongside all non-regression kick perks) except Pain Res/Pop take away 1/8th of regression events for very little payoff (Surge and Eruption in particular are simply counterproductive if Survivors don't go down easy and try to swarm high-traffic gens since the gens might be nearly blocked by the end, there's videos of this).
Tunnelling can't be fixed entirely, it's simply impossible, but it can be mitigated and discouraged in a few ways. Making the gen system only kick-in during the last gen would be a good start (to relieve some stress for weaker Killers and broaden perk variety and viability) and the upcoming DS buff (they can't really nerf it further so it's gotta be some kind of buff) will likely help a bit too.
-
STBFL as a whole shouldn't have been nerfed in the first place, it should have been tweaked to remove it's single problematic aspect: it's immense power in camping and tunnelling scenario.
Simply deactivating the perk when too close to hooked Survivors and not work on basekit BT would have been fine. The perk was mostly used by average/weaker Killers that needed to compensate for their weak chase or by tunnellers/campers that could essentially guarantee kills with it. By removing it's camping potential it would have been perfect but they had to kill the perk entirely.
Nevermind the fact that the perk is downright unusable by a few Killers, it's now only good in camping and tunnelling situations due to how easy it is to lose stacks and how there is no way to circumvent losing stacks (meaning that tunnelling is more likely since the Killer will entirely ignore the Obsession).
-
@Archol123 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3660379#Comment_3660379
The prevent unhook thing is probably untrue... If you compare the current values to the ones on PTB it is a difference of 5% so like 0.05 seconds... If he makes unhook impossible on PTB he would do so on live, but apparently nobody noticed in that case?
Don't take it from me, some guy posted a short video demonstrating it in the "Killer tweaks" thread iirc.
-
On many loops, the Doctor shocking you is distance enough for an extra loop.
Doctor has 0 answer to Hold W. When in doubt just go forward.
Unless you have a whole build around it, weird skillchecks are a minor inconvenience the moment people start to get good at skillchecks.
While it's true that the Doctor (in the PTB) is able to completely prevent unhooks and as such should be tweaked further, he is currently sitting at the bottom of the killrate list (in part due to bots in certain parts of the world) and is effectively an M1 Killer with no map mobility, in this day and age, especially with the recent ill-thought-out "Anti-3-gen system" (that should only activate during the last gen to truly be what it is advertised to be) Killers with no mobility and no way to end chases quickly struggle greatly.
Slugging for the 4k is a global issue and imo would be simply fixed by making (when there's only 2 people left OR if every Survivor is slugged) Survivors able to get up by themselves OR a "bleed out" button to just make the game end already and not waste 4 minutes of everybody's time.
-
@VomitMommy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3660021#Comment_3660021
if hacking the drone had an impact
I have suggested two changes.
- Remove broken -> always mending like Legion
- Hacking drones make aura red for 10-15 seconds and drone can't be recalled during that time
I think that makes it easier for new players, who have issues staying injured and hacking drone becomes viable mid chase, because she won't be able to deploy drone again. Hacking drone will deny power with cost of information, which seems fair trade to me.
r even simply being able to remove a scan stack by hacking a drone.
That's terrible idea, it would be pointless to ever drop chase on people with lock on and Skully would be punished for trying to setup her drones in advance, which doesn't make sense.
No offense, but hacking mid-chase, especially for newcomers, isn't really an option. Most people will take 3-5 seconds to hack a drone and in the context of a chase, being immobile in a loop is simply not a viable option.
But yeah, there should simply be a point to deactivating drones.
-
Perfectly said, STBFL and Sloppy are among the few good perks that the powerhouses can't really use as well as weaker/M1 Killers and instead of simply fixing the issues they nerf everything else except the issues.
-
@VomitMommy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3659536#Comment_3659536
nearly inevitable loss
Artist, Dredge, Knight can all create setup where there is nothing survivor can do other than die.
Skull merchant is still an M1 killer with very limited anti-loop, she is not able to create inevitable loss situation on many pallets, she can get injury if survivors don't play correctly / don't have enough resources, but there is killer who can do it even more easily -> Legion.
She has so much in her arsenal for so little effort
She has quite a lot of things in her kit, but there is nothing she is best at currently. She used to be best defensive killer in dbd, for totem at least and tied with some on gens. I will gladly get that back over better stealth.
Her chase is worse than used to be, only thing better than before is stealth, everything else is worse, feel free to convince me otherwise.
.And also the fact that her first design gave PTSD to countless players and is almost single-handedly responsible
Yeah, I agree. Thing is you can't fix it anymore, so why bother?
While SM isn't the only one with powerful anti-loop, the others can be baited and there's some hope of the Killer miscalculating placement or timing (or in Knight's case, without Map of the Realm a Survivor can actually outrun his guards zone if they start to run away soon enough, it's the whole reason everyone wants it basekit).
I honestly wouldn't mind her being a "Jack of all Trades, Master of none" Killer if hacking the drone had an impact and, even in SoloQ, was useful. Something as simple as preventing SM from recalling them (and subsequently replacing them mid-chase without slowing down) for most of the duration after they are hacked. At the cost of being longer (add like 3-4 imputs in the QTE) to turn the counterplay into a strategy as when to hack them would be important.
Or even simply being able to remove a scan stack by hacking a drone.
This would encourage interaction with the drones (arguably providing minimal slowdown due to hacking being more common and longer) and making SM need to think more about drone usage since it would be better to keep drones for strong tiles rather than constantly recalling and spamming them at every loops.
She would always be a SoloQ/newcomer stomper (like every Killers with gimmicks) but at least Survivors could work around her power (at the cost of time and some risk due to being immobile) and like other trap Killers would be a Killer that is dealt with better out of chase than in chase.
-
@MechWarrior3 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3658637#Comment_3658637
I’ve seen this video, and I really don’t agree with it at all. He doesn’t tell the whole story, and he uses a lot of details that fit his story and narrative.
Not to mention, he is an accurate on everything that he is showing in this video
@VomitMommy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3658637#Comment_3658637
It's long time since I have say this guy is incorrect many times and using only information that fits his narrative...
It's easy to see why she is not fun for survivors, skull merchant has currently two options in chase, hold W when healthy and predrop pallets when injured, which is not really an interactive chase for survivors.
I never said that everything in the video was pure and unadulterated truth, of course there's some bias.
However the "broad strokes" are pretty accurate about why people still hate her;
Outside of "Hold W" (an effective counter to all M1 Killers) and "hope your teammates don't get scanned while you're getting chased", there's very little meaningful (or unique) counterplay to her. Hacking the drones do nothing since she can recall them and re-place them in a second if a Survivor happens to be chased in a loop containing a deactivated drone and she can do so without slowing down.
Skull Merchant is arguably one of the least difficult Killer to get results with, with one button press a loop, no matter it's strength, is a death trap that even good players can't escape outside of simply leaving and hoping there's a connected tile. She can also do so ahead of time when coming across god-pallets and strong tiles to further reduce the amount of button presses needed during the chase.
Now you can say that as far as "nearly inevitable loss" then a good Blight and/or Nurse can also apply, but that's the thing: Nurse and Blight take practice to use efficiently. There's also the fact that SoloQ (the majority of the playerbase) can't relay drone locations and status to help reduce people getting scanned when turning a corner.
There's also the fact that she can also gains stealth on-demand for some reason and, unlike other stealth Killers who have some kind of audio cue or some kind of drawback (loud breathing and nothing special outside of Tier 3 for Myers, Wraith growling as well as not being able to attack until de-cloaked etc.) she has barely audible footsteps. She has so much in her arsenal for so little effort (not counting her add-ons which can add more status effects or make the base ones better) that it's overwhelming and hard to keep track of her status (especially for inexperienced/casual players and SoloQ).
...And also the fact that her first design gave PTSD to countless players and is almost single-handedly responsible (alongside Knight and Singularity) for the current ill-thought-out "Anti-3-gen system" that's creating all kinds of issues for weaker/M1 Killer while not bothering the powerhouses.
-
I'll just leave this here, this guy goes into detail of why people still hate her.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vOliDIQxQlE&t=3s -
Quite frankly, the Dredge and Deathslinger ones (especially Dredge) are very good.
Honestly if lower-tier Killers weren't made stressful to play since the gen system I'd probably get at least one. (Seriously though, just make the system activate after the 4th gen is completed. Endless 3-gen games are gone, a whole bunch of perks are useable again, weaker Killers don't have to let Survivors do certain gens if the Survivors don't go down quickly and keep pushing high-traffic/central gens, everyone is happy.).
I wasn't expecting a special Mori, but I'm kinda surprised that there's no music during the attack animations or something.
-
@North85 said:
I think smart survivors will heal through it anyway. Staying injured just to dodge mangled is going to lead to easy downs.
This is true, for newcomers/average Survivors that aren't confident in their looping ability to be able to take a chase while injured.
Those will quickly heal through Mangled (like before) and nothing will really change.
However veteran players will simply wait out the timer and work on gens more, confident in their skill, healing at normal speed when needed after Mangled has worn off.
This is also yet another slap in the face of weaker/M1 Killers that used Sloppy Butcher frequently (when's the last time you saw a Nurse or Blight use this perk effectively).
I think Hemorrhage was more of an issue since it essentially deleted perks that gave healing progress (Resurgence, Reactive Healing etc.) and all they could have done is make healing progress given by those perks impossible to regress.
-
While it's true that tunnelling has gotten much worse since 7.5.0 (for obvious reasons) giving free DCs isn't the way.
I remember when they had a short period where there was no DC penalty, the game was borderline unplayable for certain Killers and Survivors that did the first gen too fast.
While I do agree that a Killer should be able to DC against a full team of bots without penalty AND Survivors should be able to DC with no penalty if they are the last non-bot Survivor (not alive or dead, bot) giving free outs won't change much except that certain Killers will have issues playing the game.
-
Hell, she JUST got a basekit buff to reload speed not that long ago.
I'm not against weaker Killers getting some attention (still hoping they fix the 3-gen system and STBFL) but Huntress was already pretty strong and already had a pretty high pickrate.
-
I firmly believe that the timer was extended purely to make Pig players following trapped unhooked Survivors in stealth to guarantee a head pop less viable as it is a very common complaint.
-
The change will sadly leave inexperienced Survivors largely unnaffected by the nerf (since most will not want to risk not healing and will heal early for longer anyway) and experienced players, those that already had a tendency to either stay injured (likely to get value out of some perk and/or because they are confident enough that they can take a chase) or only heal in perfect safety will simply wait out the timer.
90 seconds is not that short, but it's short enough that unless the Killer tunnels then waiting it out isn't that much of an issue. If anything being incentivized to continue doing gens for the timer will make gen progress faster at a higher level.