SkeletalElite
SkeletalElite
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no counterplay ≠ unbeatable
a team who plays well by early throwing pallets and sticking gens will still win, but the game will be extremely boring. Killers like PH, deathslinger, doctor, spirit all have a very unhealthy design in how they're balanced. They're pretty strong in the 1v1 but so much so the way you beat them is by playing as safe as possible and when survivors play as safe as possible and do gens as fast as possible you have games that are extremely unfun for the killer.
Basically the way to beat them is to make the game unfun for the killer but the alternative is losing to a very unfun killer to play against.
The problem with deathslinger power is that because he can fire so quickly (and thus leave not enough time for a human to react) and also has no cost (no slowdown/cooldown) to only pretending he's about to shoot, that leaves the only counterplay as throwing pallets before the killer even has the opportunity to try and make a play at the pallet. This is boring as a killer because if survivors paly well you will just spend the entire game trying to catch up to survivors with your 110 speed and kicking pallets. If the survivors don't do this, all they can do is try and guess whether or not the slinger will actually shoot. If the slinger is bad he may miss shots but if he's not he'll just m1 you while you waste time juking or if you don't juke he will just shoot you.
Pyramid Head has a similar problem. When he sticks his sword in the ground, he slows down a little bit, but is still faster than the survivor. This means anytime you reach a pallet, PH will stick the sword in the ground then if the survivor does not throw the pallet they ran through he just cancels his power and will hit them with a basic attack. If they throw the pallet. Pyramid head will be able to hit them with punishment of the damned because throwing a pallet stops you from moving for ~1/2 second which is more than enough time for pyramid head to react.
Doctor also has a similar problem to deathslinger. Upon reaching a pallet a smart doc will make you completely unable to throw it and eventually get a hit by repeatedly shocking you just before you reach the pallet. Eventually he will catch up to you and get the hit even though he slows down when he uses his power because it doesn't slow enough to cause the survivor to gain a significant amount of distance. This makes the counterplay to throw the pallet before he can even shock you. Even then the pallet may be short enough that can he can still get the hit by shocking you to stop vaulting, but not all the time. At the pallets where this works, you have the same situation as deathslinger, you spend the game just kicking pallets and running after survivors with no mindgames.
Spirit's problem is more unique in that the problem is a lack of feedback for the survivors. Survivors are told so little about what the spirit is doing that when you get hit it often feels like all you were doing was running around like a headless chicken just trying to hopefully confuse her, but in the end everything is on her side. A survivor who plays well may be able to delay a decent amount of time by holding W against her but it's very unfun to do because the game feels like it's entirely in the killer's hands and lacks the back and forth interaction between killer and survivor that makes the game fun. The spirit player gets to do all the interacting while the survivor is basically just throwing the bones and hoping they get a highroll.
tldr; These killers encourage survivors to use boring play styles because it's the only way to consistently outplay good usage of the killer's power and the alternative is just getting killed by something you couldn't have done anything about. These killer aren't overpowered, they're unfun. The solution would be to adjust the powers to be more fun (inevitably making them weaker) but to give them a compensation buff in some other way.
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@arcnkd said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1633376#Comment_1633376
80 seconds solo - jumping to 47 with two --- that right there is the reason gens are so ridiculous. It should not lose 30 entire seconds for a second survivor popping on. Should be something like 80, 70, 60, 50 - that alone would help things immensely. There is far too much benefit for adding a second Survivor and too little benefit adding beyond 2 so it encourages splitting two on two gens and rushing them down.
Changing those times to those above would force Survivors to not be able to rush down multiple gens at the same time very easily.
If that were the case you would just see survivors not coop repairing then instead of 1 gen popping in 47 seconds. You would get 2 gens pop another 30 seconds later even if you interrupt one of them.
The fastest games are actually ones where all survivors do separate gens. It's very very hard for the killer to pressure survivors who are all working separate gens and if the survivors are all good at looping you'll have 3 gens pop by first hook.
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@MrLimonka said:
You can dodge a lobby with a key. You can't dodge a lobby with a mori.
And no, just because someone escaped by hatch (with or withou tthe key) does not mean you get "bullied". That means you would've won the match anyway, and the real downside is just you losing some bloodpoints.
You can actually, just close your game in the loading screen.
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looks to me like your mori got countered by the fact that first dude died with 3.5k and not sacrificed.
so basically, perfectly balanced.
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@LuffyBlack said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1630761#Comment_1630761
Then the Mori would be useless...?
Ideal scenario
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@Tactless_Ninja said:
Here's a thought. What if players killed by a mori could be revived?
Here's how I picture it: 1, 2, 3 hooks, dead. That's base ruleset. But Mori's pretty much can skip 2 and 3. And Mori's are getting some sort of change amirite? So here's some bullet points on how it would go:
- Already mori'd survivors cannot be mori'd again in the same match.
- If the player is on death hook they cannot be revived. This is intended as a second chance mechanic for players taken out too early.
- Reviving disabled during EGC. Any survivor in the process of being revived is killed. This puts power in both killer and survivor hands.
- Medic perks work on reviving players but only in same fashion as gens for parity. So it would cap at 10% increased revive speed with most healing perks, 15% with specialized ones.
- Revive speed is base 70 seconds (ballparking here). And only one player can revive at a time (maybe).
- Bleedout timer effects how long before permadeath. So if they're left alone too long, they die.
So, how about it?
better change would be to require all survivors hooked at least once before mori can be used. That way the killer has to get AT least 4 hooks. Currently if there is more than 1 maybe 2 gens when you lose your first survivors you instantly lose and moris are really really good at doing that. Having minimum 4 hooks but sometimes more if you end up 2 hooking a person or two would give the survivors a bigger window to get gens done before the killer just achieves their win condition.
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I think the only way to have an alternate game mode would be to have a heathstone style "tavern brawl" where there's a rotating game mode where balance isn't really a concern and it's just different but wacky fun.
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looks good
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Every new character adds 5 bloodwebs to every character to max them.
Average level 50 bloodweb is usually over 50k BP.
The cost of maxxing a character goes up by 250,000+ every time a new character comes out. Maxxing all characters then goes up by 250k x number of characters. for killers currently 21, will be 22 at next chapter. Thus it will cost you 5,250,000 BP just to get all the new perks on all current killers. Decided to leave survivors out since you can just max 1 survivor and it doesnt matter.
Next chapter getting the new perks on all characters will cost you 5,500,000 just for new perks on all characters. Getting a character to level 50 is roughly 1.5 million. So add 1.5 million JUST for level 50. and an additional 1.5 million for every prestige. Then add the cost of getting ALL the perks on the new character. At the current number of killer perks (75) at 3 levels each, and 2 perk levels per bloodweb. That would be 113 bloodwebs if you could get 2 perks at every web, but you can't for like the first 40 webs. so realistically you need somewhere from 150-200 webs for the new character.
And it only gets worse with every new release. It's not sustainable.
Remove perk levels. Cut the grind into 1/3 of what it is currently and reduce the grind inflation to manageable levels
These numbers are conservative estimates. Real numbers are likely even worse.
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I think it should either be made not a hex perk or get this change and stay a hex perk
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Run a strong medkit or healing build, heal yourself get chased camp a pallet take a hit but stun the killer in the process. Repeat until done. You're probably gonna throw the game to do it but it doesn't matter just get the challenge done and be over with it.
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use small PP, great if you get tunneled since the killer can't slug you to avoid your DS and even if the killer doesn't tunneled DS + UB let's you do stuff without the killer being able to stop you ie. finish that gen that's close to done that the killer is patrolling hard or go for the save on that survivor even if he's nearby.
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@ClickyClicky said:
Does anyone know how it works?
undying = 1 totem
haunted = 2 totems
If a survivor takes out the 1 lit totem, does it keep the other lit totem in place and just spawn a single new lit totem?
I'd imagine it would. cant see why it would deactivate the lit and spawn 2 new fresh lit totems
I think it selects 2 new totems.
If haunted triggers 3 times in one game that's your own fault. There's no scenario where haunted grounds is cleansed twice where there's any reason to cleanse more totems.
Haunted + Undying= 3 totems, 2 dulls remain.
Haunted trigger 1, 1 dull remains
Haunted trigger 2, no dulls remain (no reason to cleanse anymore totems)
The likely hood that they're another a THIRD hex perk is very low at that point because haunted works poorly with undying AND another hex perk
Haunted + Undying + any other totem = 1 dull remains
first totem break is 50/50 between haunted or non haunted. If you hit non haunted, haunted can no longer respawn because undying is gone or the only dull is gone.
If you hit haunted first, you now have ANOTHER 50/50 on totems. haunted or non haunted totem. Haunted totem = haunted doesn't repsawn because there's only 1 dull not 2. Non haunted no matter which totem it is, doesn't spawn due to all dulls taken.
so you should never cleanse hexes after hitting haunted for a second time because the odds are conisderably in favor of only totems being undying and haunted at that point. If you happen to see a dull totem at this point it means haunted is no longer in play and remaining totems are free to be cleansed, but keep in mind you should cleanse that 1 dull to prevent a potential respawn on the hex you cleanse.
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The more I play with and against this addon the clearer it becomes this addon is a problem. It simply way too strong. Please it's range and duration 4 seconds and 10 meters would probably make it good but not as insanely overpowered.
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@Avarice10 said:
If solo survivors really wanted to level the playing field, bring aftercare, and detectives hunch. Aftercare is more rewarding than bond and empathy because it lets both survivors see each other, and detectives hunch gives you the info needed to do bones.
But they'd still be 2 perks down unlike SWF.
I do like your idea though.60 seconds is not a lot of time to designate a strategy but such a change would help.
That's not leveling the playing field, that's getting the same thing swf get, but spending half your perk slots on it instead of getting it for free. Perks cannot be a bandaid fix for solo-SWF gap because then solos have to pay an opportunity cost just to have things evened out, one that the SWF don't.
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They can't change achievments on console unless a change to the game make's it unacquirable. Microsoft/sony don't let them.
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@Demogordon_Ramsay said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1604306#Comment_1604306
So pulling someone out of a locker is a "bad play" now?
And not that hard to just hide and wait for the Killer to grab them.
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1604308#Comment_1604308
No flashlight beam showed up on my screen, so where could it have possibly come from? Behind me?
With this game, maybe. But my bet's on through the locker.
it is if you didn't check for a survivor with a flashlight. Think before you act
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Legion for sure. Ace is kinda just a dude but ash fights demons, bill fights zombies, and david fights in fight rings and the legion are basically just a bunch of teens with knives.
Probably nurse because all she's got going for her is a bone saw other than that she's a very frail lady.
Probably hag, she's not very much without the entity juice.
Oni, demo, deathslinger, pyramid head, blight, freddy, myers, bubba, billy, and huntress are all going to win every time.
The other killers are maybes because they're not very much without their magic powers but they are either pretty beefy or well trained ie. trapper(beefy) or spirit (well trained)
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@Jill10230 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1609198#Comment_1609198
I've already seen red and purple rows with these advantages, coupled with the Spine chill + Urban Escape = I can't find the survivors before the 3rd generator... Memories of a rather irritating game as a Pig !
this can't be real. Stealth builds are pure dookie.
I'd take urban premonition spine chill survivors over a sprint burst DS UB object/bt/adren squad any day.
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@Espurr said:
Ok so Borrowed time as well as adrenaline. Borrowed time is used when people face camp or tunnel, which everybody knows there is face campers and tunnelers on this game so getting it nerfed even the slightest would give the killer an advantage over the survivors. This game is suppose to be even sided to all 5 players in the match. LIke you just posted "I can't even leave the vicinity of the hook without having survivors rushing a hook to get a guarenteed safe unhook" You have to resort to face camping from what it sounds like. You are just to damn salty that you face camp people and tunnel that one survivor and when they have borrowed time you have to go to the wiki and complain and beg that it be nerfed so you can feel better about yourself. Now Adrenaline you realize that there are multiple hooks and gens around the map. At the end of every game when there is just 1 gen left needing to be completed there are just 3 gens left on the whole map. All you have to do is just go back and forth between those 3 and when someone does have adrenaline all that gives them is a better chance of making it out alive. It already takes 20 Seconds on opening the gate. What I here you are saying is that you cannot get to a gate within 20 seconds of the last gen being done. So again you are just being a Salty Garbage player who would rather complain on a wiki page to get a perk nerfed for you to feel better. If you don't like the 2 perks and only those 2 perks then don't play the game. Honestly would be a lot better if anybody who had to complain about every little detail on this game to stop playing. I die, I get face camped, I see perks that are overpowered and misused to gain an advantage, and yet I don't come on a forum to complain I go back to my lobby and start another game. You as well as everyone else that has complaints on the game get so damn salty on the game that you have to cry about it on a forum. This game is literally just a game to play and have fun not for competitive plays. Just quit playing the damn game if you want to complain.
damn you really just made an account to post on a discussion literally over a year old
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Not actually useful in anyway but I think I want to give it a go in a KYF sometime just to see it
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@Maperson said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1600296#Comment_1600296
That perk combo can work on any killer, I think maybe Plague could slow it even more, but if you cleanse ruin which can happen in the first minute of the game you are left with 3 perks, pop requires you to make a good play.. Forever Freddy was nerfed long time ago..
You've never played against a ruin surveil freddy then, at least not a good one. Because once you let go of a gen he ALWAYS knows if that gen is being worked on so he can just spam teleportation on the gen being worked without ever actually teleporting. If the survivor stops repairing, he cancels the teleport if they start repairing again he just starts teleporting again. If they stick he knows they stick because surveil never triggers and he finishes the teleport and claims a free hit. You basically gain the ability to pressure two survivors at once as long as the ruin is still up and even once the ruin is gone you still have pop and surveillance giving you some of the best gen control on one of the most mobile killers in the game.
It is the most effective slowdown build in the whole game. You got two addons and a perk that directly slow repair. You got surveillance to give you some of the best gen information you can get AND you have ruin to activate it constantly/buy time. Even once it's gone pop/surveil leaves you with excellent map pressure. Survivors practically have no choice but to find and cleanse the totem early and even then the pressure you get from forcing them to do that is often enough to get the w.
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@Maperson said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1599952#Comment_1599952
Forever Freddy doesn't exist anymore.. Bamboozleface?
ruin surveil pop thana double slowdown addon freddy wants to know your location. Spoiler alert, it's still pretty decent but beyond that it's very very boring to play against.
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nurse
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Also if the killer refuses to chase anyone for extordinary amounts of time and only defends the generators they can be banned for holding the game hostage so if they're not even hooking/downing people but JUST defending gens you should record it and report them.
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Yeah a lot of games have a system like this and it's great for combating cheating
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The last time they added an exhaustion addon it was on demo and it only triggers when you walk on a portal for 5 seconds.
The last time they touched an exhaustion addon it was doctors and they reworked it to no longer cause exhaustion.
I think the devs have made it pretty clear they don't want exhaustion addons anymore.
Plus exhaustion addons just encourage people to run sprint burst isntead of the alternatives, which are honestly weaker than sprint burst.
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I really hope the devs consider this. Everyone hates ghost skill checks.
Everyone knows overcharge is not worth running.
This may not change the second thing, but I think everyone can agree there is no harm in a minor buff to a bad perk.
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@bubbabrotha said:
Deep wound does nothing and why would you need it in a chase.
deep wound isn't about chase it's about making it take longer for them to do anything. It essentially adds a 12 second mandatory channel that they have to do. That's 12 seconds they could have spent healing or working a gen. Yeah the addon won't do anything if you down someone but sometimes winning isn't about getting the down, espeically in the early game. In the early game it's far more important to keep people off generators than to commit to a chase so if you injure someone with deep wound then chase someone else off a generator that's good early game pressure because you got 1 person injured with a 12 second mend and you're chasing another. Yeah they can just heal up but in the early game them spending that time healing and mending is far more valuable than losing a generator that you cannot get back.
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None of them scare me anymore. Game is more about the action than the scare once you have thousands of hours in it.
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It literally says this at the top of the page
"Dead by Daylight is coming to next-gen consoles in Holiday 2020! The game will feature improved graphics over current gen versions and receive regular updates.
Already playing DBD on console? When you upgrade your console, you'll get the game for free AND keep all your progress."
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@xillucide said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1587844#Comment_1587844
I love all of this because this is the same thing people said about iron will for years. "It's useless, the killer will just follow blood." and now iron will is pretty much a meta perk. killers dont typically stare at the generator they just kicked as they walk away lmao
Iron will isn't meta for hiding Iron Will is meta because when you're in a chase it makes it harder for the killer to mindgame you since they have to predict where you are instead of using your injury sound to tell.
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@xillucide said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1587594#Comment_1587594
gen speed is already a problem, that's a horrible idea. just making generator sounds to 0m would be a great perk, similar to iron will. could actually become meta lol
besides, stake out already exists for that
no gen repair sounds as a perk will literally never be meta, if you want to repair gens in front of the killer just run sprint burst instead then if he tries to interrupt you, you can just zoom away. It works really well because he's usually dropping a chase to do it becuase he thought you would be an easy hit but then you just sprint burst to safety.
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Only thing I think they should change about it is not consuming the whole kit on use, just the addon.
This game suffered from OP ultra rare stuff on both sides for too long now and they need to go the other direction with ultra rare stuff.
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They should just rework technician to a perk that forces skill checks to appear on cooldown and increases the great skill check size and bonus progress. Currently some thing that are skill check RNG reliant are terrible because skill check RNG and this could help with that ie. autodidact.
Then it's also at least semi useful on it's own because a good survivor can use it to take a few seconds off a gen with a few guaranteed skill checks.
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Use for the people, when you heal someone with it you become the obsession
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There is a subreddit dedicated to the myers stun sound. I dont remeber hte name though, just that it's anonomatopoeia of the sound
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jack #########
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Same thing applies to survivor perks
Look at second wind
Look at Lucky Break
Look at Visionary
Visionary is literally a joke
Who the hell thought visionary needed a cooldown. Compare visionary to deja vu or detective's hunch. Those aren't even good perks but visionary is clearly worst pick. Every scenario that might get value out of visionary, the other two do better.
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I wouldn't equip a perk for it. Flashlights aren't strong enough for it to be worth the slot. Hell if every killer I go against equipped lightborn for 4 flashlights I'd get my swf bringing 4 addonless yellow lights all the time just for the wasted slot.
Basically don't equip a perk you wouldn't otherwise equip. If you're playing a killer like nurse or billy who can get a lot of value of out infectious than sure, but don't take a perk just to counter lights.
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It's more of a problem with the animation not lining up with the swing I think really.
If the attack box collidies with your hitbox at any point during the attack it's a hit, even if it's the end of the swing. Essentially there could be no animation to swinging and the swing just lasts a determined amount of time that's the same on every killer and sometimes this looks weird. I think trapper and freddy especially are affected by this because of their small weapons with short attack animations compared to say oni with his large sword with long attack animation.
They're the exact same, it just looks a little off on freddy and trapper.
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@SeannyD115 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1573663#Comment_1573663
Causing a slinger to miss shots by unpredictable movements is counterplay. It's like saying a huntress that holds a fully charged hatchet has no counterplay.
You missed the point, unpredictable movement has no value because the lack of cost to faking power usage. Even if you run around like a headless chicken you know what happens, he hits you with an m1 and that's assuming his aim isn't good enough to just hit you mid dodge anyways, since like I said, even if you move unpredictably, the deathslinger doesn't have to predict you. Like I said, the shot only takes like 1/3 of a second or less to fire and travel. The prediction is entirely one directional. You commented earlier that demo has the same zoning potential this is not true because when the death slinger aims he is instantly able to fire with no wait time between aiming/firing. Upon activating from the abyss with demo, you have to wait rougly 1/3-1/2 a second before left clicking in order to shred, or else you will just perform a regular attack. During this short time you also slowdown. This adds a cost to incorrect predictions and results in mindgames that are not one sided. Additionally, ANY obstacle is enough to block demo's power. A significant portion of the time, even if there as an obstacle with death slinger, he is able to walk around it while you are stuck on it and lunge to you and hit you anyways.
Edit: Huntress hatchets are a similar story to demos. After readying the hatchet there is a short delay before the hatchet can actually be thrown in addition to slower move speed while the hatchet is up. This leads to mind games and predictions that are two way.
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It takes deathslinger like 5-10 frames to aim and like another 5-10 frames for the spear to travel. That's like 1/4-1/3 of a second to react. Around 100 ping that's about 1/10 second of delay from latency leaving you around 200 miliseconds to react. Consider average human reaction time about 250 miliseconds with extremely fast times being closer 200 miliseconds, it is mathmatically impossible to avoid a deathslinger spear. The only thing you can do is try to break line of sight at all times, but that is practically impossible. It's pretty much the definition of no counterplay.
Bad deathslingers are what make people think he has counterplay because the deathslinger misses their shot when the survivor jukes but it's literally just guessing, there is no cooldown or slowdown to faking shooting so you just have to guess when he'll shoot and even then a good enough aim can hit anyways. Your brain isn't a supercomputer that can analyze the situation and guess when a skilled deathslinger is going to fake or shoot with relatively high accuracy.
And even in the event you do manage to play in some way that prevents him from shooting you, it's either doing 1 of 2 things. 1) just endlessly blocking line of sight on 1 object and eating m1 hits (not effective) or 2) Throwing pallets extremely early so the deathslinger has no chance to use his power as anti looping (boring for both players)
No counterplay in this case does not mean unbeatable, a team doing their gens fast enough and using strategy 2 can easily beat a deathslinger, but it's not about win or lose. It's about how fun it is to play against him, and simple fact of the matter is that it isn't fun.
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@[Deleted User] said:
The Doctor is free and can do it easily. Just play a farming game with him to get it if you can't with your mains.
Doctor is only in the base game on console, the game is more expensive on console than it is on PC though
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I haven't played very many games with it yet but it seems good. At the very least, the status quo is maintained, at best, I'm not getting hit with hits that shouldn't have been connecting.
It's kind of thing that's hard to notice whether it's working or not it because if it's working you shouldn't notice it.
ie. "If I vault this window the killer shouldn't be able to make the hit in time" and it doesn't happen, maybe it was the server side hit validation, maybe the killer ping is just good, the point is that it only fixes things that shouldn't happen in the first place, meaning if it works correctly, rather than directly noticing an improvement, you'll stop noticing things that shouldn't happen because they aren't happening.
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@RedSoul1994 said:
Mh, maybe. Okay, well. New agenda: Delete. The Iri. Head!!
When I said everyone knows that iri head is unfair, I meant everyone. Even the devs know. The devs process for making changes to the game is just so unbelievably ######### that literally nothing will be done until they entirely rework the huntress's addons all together.
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Depends on the addon. The new ones like the deathslinger one is fair since it has a hard to fufill condition. Literally everyone knows that iri head is not fair and everyone knows that red head's pinky finger on clown is completely bonkers but clown is so bad it's hard to call it "unfair"
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The devs have said in the past they only want camping to be a viable strategy to a point. I think there only needs to be minor tweaks to get the game all the way there.
Basically they're okay with people camping but they don't want it to be a primary strategy because of how unfun it is for both sides.
If they want to kill camping without reason for good they should add a cummulative slowdown to hook progress if the killer is nearby AND there are no survivors nearby, basically the same system that is already in the game as an emblem penalty for camping, but as a mechanical penalty as well.
For every 6 or so seconds that killer spends close to the hook while there are no survivors nearby, the survivors on the hook should get 1 stack of this "cummulative slowdown" effect, with a grace period of no stacks appearing right after you hook them. From that point onward they will die slightly slower, even if the killer leaves. 1 stack of this effect will do very little, but if the killer stays near the hook for extrodinary amounts of time for no reason (ie. there is no survivors swarming the hook) then the slowdown stacks will start to accumulate and the hooked person will take a very long time to die.
This can't be abused because it's a system that ALREADY EXISTS but currently only gives point penalty's to the chaser emblem. Once again, the condition that a survivor cannot be near the hook for these stacks prevents abuse since looping the killer near the hook will not result in stack accumulation
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A few things I would want the devs to do differently but this post does sum up a good chunk of problems with balance in DBD currently.
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I don't understand what the problem is?
If they're spamming vaults or lockers or something then they're not working the gens and you should be able to deal with them easily.
Does it reduce your FPS or something?