SirCracken
SirCracken
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@FreakPrince said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1354850#Comment_1354850
Any nerf to Spine Chill would make it useless.
There are far more pressing concerns about the game than nerfing a perk that’s been here since Day 1.
Objectively incorrect. If you've read anything on this thread, you'd know by now how badly the perk is designed.
One of those concerns is the level of attention in these forums. I've found the exact same arguments over and over again, and I keep giving my counter arguments, but no one reads them and I just get more of the same.
Why are so many people commenting when they have no idea what they are commenting about?
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@Lavos99z said:
Why would it need a nerf? High ranks don't need to use it, unless for a challenge. Low ranks use it to learn the game and get a feel for when and where the killer is coming from. Mid ranks can escape sticky situations as they're a middle-of-the-road stage and kinda still need the help sometimes. I run it and it doesn't always save me. Killers can still outplay. If you're just having bad games against spine chill gamers, just say that instead of b*tching here about nerfing the perk. I play fine against it and it doesn't entirely help me when I play with it. I'm clearly not the only one saying this either.
Ok. I'm getting a bit sick of this.
I've already addressed those counter arguments:
- High skill, (rank is meaningless) survivors know how to best abuse Spinechill. The perk still offers a huge benefit for survivors of other skill levels. Just not as much. Which is also part of the problem, as any person can equip the perk and either get an early warning signal that the killer is near, or force the killer to change their movement for the sake of countering a single perk that they don't even know is being run.
- I win most of my games despite Spinechill. I'm not here "bitching about the perk". I'm making a logical argument as to why it's unbalanced.
- Saying that you have no problem with this, (no matter how many other people keep repeating it) , does not make the problem magically disappear.
I seriously don't know why people keep going on about rank
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@FreakPrince said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1354840#Comment_1354840
Oh, so the reason here is that you don’t want to adapt to a perk that not even a lot of survivors use... now I get it.
Spine Chill is a counter to stealth killers, just as many other perks in the game counters something else. It’s not like DS where you literally don’t have a choice.
Any good survivor runs Spinechill. It's not uncommon at all. And has already been said, many times now, in this very thread, Spinechill does more than counter stealth killers.
Have you read any of the arguments in this thread?
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@darktrix said:
With the way gates spawn so close together any killer with noed could just patrol back and forth and keep people off the gate until the Entity takes them.
So you basically want to punish survivors for finishing gens.
It's rare for the gates to spawn close together. Even rarely to also have the NOED right next to them for easy protection.
Your argument is based off the killer having insane rng and the survivors not doing totems.
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@FreakPrince said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1354808#Comment_1354808
So I was wrong about your rank, my bad. But you said it yourself. You are in the red ranks but you don’t BELONG there. That explains why you think Spine Chill needs to be nerfed.
If you struggle to win because of that perk, seriously, just... lmao
On the contrary, I win the vast majority of my games. Even though I'm in red ranks. The fact that I perform well, despite the hoard of other balance issues mind you, does not make my opinion any less valid than yours.
Even if you are passive aggressive and have yet to give any arguments beyond "gitgud".
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@Golden_spider said:
The only nerf I ever thought of for Spine Chill (really just a buff to Undetectable) was that any perks that alerted you to the Killer while within a certain range (OoO, Premonition, Spine Chill) would only activate at half their range if the Killer has Undetectable.
So instead of 36 Meters you'd only be notified at 18 Meters with a Cloaked Wraith, Tier 1 Myers, Crouching Pig, Shrouded Ghostface, Kind of? Emerging Demogorgon.
Good idea? don't know as I haven't thought on it at all since they announced Undetectable.
If a change along those lines were to be implemented, I'd rather it just not trigger at all with Undetectable.
It wouldn't really be true to the name, "Undetectable", if it still triggered Spinechill.
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@JustCats said:
@SirCracken I just wouldn't respond to the "get good" stuff, regardless of what your rank is. Along the same lines of it being bad design to have a perk that requires the entire killer roster to alter their movement patterns and limit their field of view just in case someone is running an otherwise perfect early warning system, the argument that you can't see bad design for what it is unless you're super pro is equally shoddy.
This game is incredibly simplistic in terms of design. That's not necessarily a bad thing, but it doesn't take an engineering degree or a super black belt rank to see how the parts could fit together a little better.
Just identify when it's most important to have Spine Chill running and trigger it based on that. Maybe when a gen you're working on is 90/80/70 completed, so you can take the risk that the TR already massively reduces for you and squeeze out that last little bit.
A change I'd like to see is have the perk disabled until activated manually. It then stays active for a set amount of time until its duration runs out and it goes on cooldown.
Hell, it could even be like a mini-exhaustion perk, and gives you small exhaustion duration each time you use it.
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@FreakPrince said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1354794#Comment_1354794
Rank 1s are filled with previous rank 15s just as much rank 15s are now filled with previous rank 20s. See?
Now, I never said it determines skill, I said they’re not the same thing.
How many times do you, as a red rank player loses to a brown rank player?
Yeah
lmao
Yes. But far more bad and mediocre players are in high ranks now than ever before. So much so that I've manged to get away with a win using a gimmick build or 2 with the reduced stress of vsing a high skill team. I still run into them from time to time.
This is correct.
Brown rank survivors are bad, generally. Yellow and green ranks are ok, generally. But I've vs'ed lots of red ranks are clearly should not be there. I'll admit that, g e n e r a l l y, when I lose it's to high ranks. But that doesn't change the fact that the horrific match making has now made rank almost obsolete.
Also, I though you said I was rank 15?
"L m a o"
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@FreakPrince said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1354788#Comment_1354788
Yeah let’s put rank 15s against red ranks and see if it’s the same thing lmao
Rank 1 is filled with people that used to be in the previous ranks but are now stuck here thanks to the match making changes.
I know from mine, and other people's experiences, that rank has never been less important as a factor for determining skill.
I'm curious if you have a counter argument to this or are just going to say something without evidence with "lmao" stapled to the end.
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@thrawn3054 said:
So you want even more people running sweaty meta perks?
Spinechill is absolutely meta. I've already been over this, (again...), but it's better to alter one meta perk at a time rather than change all of them at once.
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The ranking system is about as meaningful as this comment.
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@darktrix said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1354558#Comment_1354558
'Forced to adapt their movement' you mean like survivors always have to do vs. BBQ/chili.
Hopping into a locker or behind a gen when you clearly see the killer pick someone up is nowhere near comparable to strafing across the map until you find someone on the mere presumption that they have a specific perk.
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@AestheticCharms said:
This has to be bait
Idk man. Just look at all of the comments I've made supporting my argument and tell me.
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@Seanzu said:
Yes, lets make the pool of usable survivor perks even smaller.
You mistake nerfing a perk for making it useless.
I would like better perks in general though.
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@deadbyhitbox said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1354690#Comment_1354690
It counters stealth killers but have you ever thought that simply turning your camera if you're going to a gen nullifies SC entirely?
I'm now seriously starting to wonder if anyone reads this thread before commenting, because I'll say it again, If a single perk forces a killer to change their movement, (and potentially miss survivors they don't see), then it's too powerful on its own.
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@JustCats said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1354671#Comment_1354671
Right. It's an always-on enhanced terror radius that forces every killer (and especially stealth killers) to approach every gen without being able to get a full visual from their limited first person perspective. And it does this without even being needed to be in a survivor's kit, as there is never any indication that any of the survivors are running it. It's not like Nurse's Calling, where there are definite context clues that the killer can see you.
Survivors feel one step ahead of you? Maybe it's luck, maybe they saw you - um, since you already have the TR and red stain and they've got a 3rd person view - maybe they're good and paying great attention. Or, maybe the game just tells them exactly when they need to start running no matter what, regardless of how hunter/stalker you're trying to be. Guess I have to moonwalk or strafe everywhere just in case.
It forces a major change in killer behavior, with a significant downside for them (not being able to keep my eyes peeled sucks), and it doesn't need to be run on a survivor to still be effective. It's a pretty big hand holder.
This is exactly what I've been saying.
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@LordGlint said:
The original statement was
The whole point of the collapse is to put pressure on the survivors to get out of the game, stopping the endless starring contests that would happen if the killer caught a survivor after the gates were open. But the current implementation of the EGC seems counterproductive.
My reply to that was basicly to say "nuh uh". Now you can argue all ya want that hostage situations are still possible, I'm not gonna deny that. My original statement was simply to correct the point of the EGC.
Do you think the EGC should be changed to better fit the purpose I originally thought it had?
It would certainly make the end game more engaging.
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@deadbyhitbox said:
Ah yes, nerf another decent, reliable perk and make DS, DH and Unbreakable even more prominent than they currently are.
Those perks have their problems, certainly. But I'm not talking about them.
Tackling the meta is it's own problem. But Spinechill is apart of it, including the perks you just mentioned.
So it's best to go through them 1 at a time.
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@kate_best_girl said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1354672#Comment_1354672
Well if its so little of an effect that I still get 2-3ks every time I play GF and I and many others don't notice it whats the problem?
Anecdotal evidence is not good evidence.
I'm talking about Spinechill in context of a game with experienced players. I assume you, going up against survivors that know what they're doing, (which is becoming exceedingly rare in red ranks due to the ranking system) as any killer other than the top 4 will not make you likely to win.
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@icemancat said:
Let's see what Spine Chill can do for someone.
Spine Chill can notify the user when the killer is coming towards them, but not the exact direction. Also, Spine Chill can give a slight bonus in action speed including repair, healing, sabotage, unhooking, vaulting, cleansing, exit gate opening, and chest search speeds by 2%/4%/6% for each tier (thank you dbd wiki). Also, an experienced player can make good use of the extra chance for skill checks to hit great skill checks more frequently, making gens get completed slightly faster. Spine Chill can also counter stealth killers depending on what the killer does.
However, Spine Chill still has its drawbacks.
Spine Chill is able to be completely countered if the killer does not look at the survivor. One way to do this is if you're making your way towards a generator where you suspect survivors are working. Try to estimate when you are about 40 meters away from the survivor repairing and begin to look slightly away from the generator's aura while at the same time, keep making your way towards the generator. Stealth killers will have the easiest time doing this due to their lower terror radius and in some cases, their lower profiles (Pig and Ghostface). This counter can still work even if the killer you're playing has a regular terror radius. For this example, let's say you're in the end game collapse and a survivor with Spine Chill is halfway done with opening the gate. You're about 32 meters away from them and you have two options: You can either look directly at the survivor opening the gate or look away. Looking at the survivor might end up giving them that little boost from Spine Chill they needed to end up escaping, giving them the escape while looking slightly away from them can deny them the escape. It's these little things that can make the difference in a game.
To answer your question, while I believe Spine Chill is a relatively strong and versatile perk, I haven't noticed anything too powerful about Spine Chill that would require it to be nerfed.
My main point for why it should be nerfed is that no other survivor knowledge perk offers the amount of benefits that Spinechill does.
I've already said my counter argument for this, but I'll say it again, making the killer have to actively look away from the survivors they're supposed to be hunting is too much of an effect just to counter a single perk.
Not only do you risk not seeing survivors you otherwise would have seen by moon/crab walking around the map, but you physically cannot chase someone without keeping your eye on them. They will always have the added vault speed unless you decided to look away from the survivor at every single window and dropped pallet.
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@kate_best_girl said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1354657#Comment_1354657
I mean the only stealth killer I play is GF and most of the time playing him you dont wanna stalk you just wanna rush in and hit while you're stealthed and still SC doesn't bother me all that much. I can count on both hands how many times spine chill has ruined a hit and thats an estimated 7.
I've already said it already, (which seems to be a running theme in this thread), but it's very difficult to judge how much of an effect Spinechill has on a game when you're killer. You can never know exactly when the survivor started moving after the perk lit up. You've probably missed a great deal of hits, if not complete chases, because of the perk.
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@Rydog said:
Spine Chill has a learning curve and requires a lot of active attention to get maximum benefit from it. It can be played around with moonwalking etc., and it's nearly useless on maps like Hawkins and The Game.
I agree. It has a big learning curve. But when mastered it's one of the best perks in the entire game.
I've already made my counter point to moon/crabwalking, so I'll make it again. If a single perk forces a killer to change their movement, (and potentially miss survivors they don't see), then it's too powerful on its own.
You last point is flat out wrong.
Spinchill. Being nearly useless on indoor maps. That is the opposite of true.
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@kate_best_girl said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1354636#Comment_1354636
I mean it only gives you a lot more skillchecks if the killer is staring at you the entire time and number one on that list doesn't counter every stealth killer. A good stealth killer isn't bothered by spine chill.
Unless of course you're Myers and Ghostface. Which have powers tied directly to looking at survivors. Even ignoring that, you can't argue that Spinechill is anything but the best perk in the game to counter stealth.
The last point is mainly where you're trying to rush a gen/heal and the killer is coming to you. That extra % can make or break at times.
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@gatsby said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1354620#Comment_1354620
I'm a Rank 1 Killer. The only thing Spine Chill does is waste my time slightly and prevent gens grabs when I play Pig and Ghost Face.
If one of my perks tells me a Survivor is there, I'm going to find them. Like I know the maps and geometry too well to spend more than 10-15 seconds without finding them. (immersing doesn't even save them time either because when I find them I get a free hit)
It's a good perk for Survivors to have awareness to get to safe looping positions. And in the vault speed build with Resilience it can help in chase, but its not overpowered. At least not against halfway decent Killers that are sentient
Rank have never been more meaningless than today. And as I said before, it's difficult to properly assess how much Spinechill affects the game from a killer POV.
I've already been over this, but the simply knowing that the killer is coming will extend the amount of time the killer takes to down the survivor. Because the moment Spinechill lights up any good survivor will book it to the nearest safe area, wasting more of your time even if you find them.
I heavily disagree that a perk that gives survivors free knowledge and, often a head start in every chase, along with added knowledge in every chase, is well designed. Especially since it also boosts your vaulting speed, yet another bonus with no drawback. It does too many things for 1 perk.
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@kate_best_girl said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1354584#Comment_1354584
I mean even AS a stealth killer Spine Chill really isn't bad. Its a nuisence but not so much of one that it NEEDS to be nerfed. I don't even notice when its in play I just play normally and never I never seem to actually lose because of spine chill rather I get a toxic team with flashlights or something like that.
As killer, it's inherently hardly to tell how much of an effect Spinchill has. Even harder to tell if the survivors have it. But it does too many things for a single perk slot:
- Gives you knowledge of the killer approaching you, effectively countering every stealth killer in the game.
- Gives you knowledge while in a chase with the killer, helping to better guess their mind games and avoid a hit.
- Increases your vaulting speed. Although the amount seems small, combine it with Resilience and windows are much more powerful.
- Gives you more spellchecks. This is the weakest of the benefits, but still another in the list.
There's no reason why a perk should have this many upsides with no requirement.
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@OldHunterLight said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1354609#Comment_1354609
I'll leave it to your opinion because everyone has theirs, I just don't believe it's as strong as you make it out to be.
If you like I can directly compare every other survivor knowledge perk to Spinechill.
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@gatsby said:
Killers have tons of perks to track Survivors. Spine Chill just gives Survivors some advance notice to maybe get a head start or waste my time by hiding.
If I saw a generator light up with Discordance and no one's on it when I get there, I'm not going to leave. I'm going to check those bushes and rocks for the Claudette with Spine Chill and find her. 36m advance notice isn't enough to leave an area without scratch marks, the Killer should still be able to find you if they're somewhat sentient
There is not a single killer perk that is comparable to Spinechill in terms of power level. Name one, if you can.
Yes, it gives survivors a head start. Contrary to popular, (and objectively incorrect), belief, hiding is not a waste of time since every moment the killer is searching for someone is a moment that they aren't chasing them. Effectively giving your team more time to do gens. And guess what Spinechill helps with?
If you get a gen with progress and start searching for the survivors then Spinechill has already done it's job. Instead of starting a chase the moment you get to a gen you're wasting time searching for the survivors.
As for 36 meters not enough time to leave without scratch marks, I'll say it again, it's not about completely evading the killer. It's about making them waste time not chasing people and instead looking around. But even so, on certain maps the notification is often enough to get away scot free.
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Wow. What a comment.
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@OldHunterLight said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1354582#Comment_1354582
I don't think it's powerful as you make it out to be, let's say that you are playing Michael against 4 spince chill users, survivors can hear him easy now even without a TR, with spine chill they just know the killer is looking at them, it doesn't give the exact location, I don't know what kind of godly survivors you are playing against but from my 2k hours of experience I can say that there are a few things you can do to play against spine chill, you can hear ghostface as well, and for deathslinger is a life saver considering his chase music starts when he already hits you, it's a good counter (I hate deathslinger both using him and playing against him).
I know the best way to get out of T1 Myers is to get close and stalk but it's not like that with ghostface.
I heavily disagree. You mistake me saying that Spinechill can give away the killer's exact location. That's not how good survivors use it. Let me give you an example:
A Survivor is repairing the shack gen and SC lights up. They hear no terror radius but know the killer is coming, but they obviously don't know where. They position themselves right next to the outer shack wall so no matter what angle the killer uses they'll be seen and safely avoided.
Even if the survivor is in a bad position, simply knowing that the killer is coming for you is often enough to save you from taking a hit if you're working on an unsafe gen.
I don't know why you mentioned being able to hear certain killers well. I never mentioned that. And yes, Spinechill is a good choice against M&A Deathslinger, and every stealth killer in the game, and every killer in the game. It's just too good.
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@brokedownpalace said:
I guess Spine Chill is the latest NERF THIS PERK fad. What is this like the third topic about it in the past couple days?
Because the balance of dbd is clearly perfect and any attempt to change something is just a fad.
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@Pepsidot said:
I think it's absolutely fine on in-door maps. Stealthy killers essentially otherwise get free hits.
Spine chill is the kind of perk that would never be created nowadays. It's got a huge 36 meter range and other benefits to it such as faster vaulting speed. But I really don't know if I'd go as far as to nerf it.
Yes. Stealthy killers have an advantage on indoor maps. But that is literally how they're designed: get easy first hits but have no ability to easily down. Why should a single perk shut down several killer's main advantage?
I agree that Spinechill wouldn't be created nowadays. Only because the dev team seem to have thrown the idea of making decent perks completely out the window for survivors and killer alike.
But I simply don't understand why you would not nerf it. It has far more benefits than any other information perk in the game. It is the best information perk in the game. Its mere existence makes otherwise ok perks terrible in comparison. It really deserves a nerf.
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@kate_best_girl said:
Spine Chill is perfectly fine the way it is and needs no changes
Can you explain why?
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@OldHunterLight said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1354558#Comment_1354558
Even if they see the icon light up, you as a killer might have some LOS to them, if you think about it it's like enduring + spirit furi, survivors have to play against it .
I just don't think spine chill deserves a nerf, it isn't that good tbh and I was a pig main for a while, there are a few things that you can abuse, like most survivors that have it, won't loop as much unless spine chill + resilience, 6% isn't that much as well.
You can also run tracking perks like whispers if you think you missed someone.
There's my point proven again.
Enduring and Spirit Fury is a 2 perk combo. It's powerful, but requires 2 pallets to be broken to activate and survivors can avoid it. Spinechill is a single perk that doesn't need any requirement to activate besides the killer looking in your direction.
I really don't know what survivors you've come across, but good ones know how to best abuse the knowledge it gives you and erase the word "Stealth" from any game. Particularly on open maps.
And running a perk to counter another perk that can only be countered by not looking where you're going is only further proof that Spinechill is just way too powerful on its own.
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I've already gone over why moon/crabwalking already proves that the perk is too strong. But Snitz had a excellent point.
What if you're playing Myers of Ghostface and want to stalk people? Well too bad because the moment you spot them they've already seen you coming and are running out of stalk range.
That's 2 killers heavily countered by a single perk, that has yet more benefits! Spine Chill is undoubtedly too powerful.
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@OldHunterLight said:
Nope, spine chill can be played around, if you think someone is there just moonwalk, it also helps people with stealthy killers like wraith, deathslinger,pig and ghostface
True, you can moonwalk or even crabwalk to try to get the drop on people if you think they're running it. But this only proves my point that the perk is way too strong.
If the killer is forced to adapt their movement just to counter a single perk, (at the cost of potentially missing survivors they don't see), then the perk should be nerfed or at the very least changed.
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@Yamaoka said:
No.
Your reasoning?
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A favorite of mine:
Objectively the Best Perk -
When standing in the killer's terror radius, while not in a chase, while healing a survivor, while repairing a generator, while uninjured, while crouching, for 60 seconds, this perk activates.
While this perk is activated, press the activation key to perform a single, specific, highly situational action, and then set this perk on cooldown for 120 seconds.
This perk automatically deactivates if you are injured, healed, downed, or hooked, and cannot be used again until you unhook 4 different survivors, perform 5 heals, stun the killer 3 times, open both exit gates, and repair a generator.
This perk can only be used once per trial.
- "The meta is ever changing"
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@Almo said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1353751#Comment_1353751
The Killer can open a gate.
I'v already gone over why this is a bad and heavily counter productive idea.
It's basically a concede button for the killer. As going to a gate to open it for the survivors usually means letting anyone you have hooked get saved and now having to guard an already open gate.
I understand that the EGC was intended to stop infinite games and not favor the killer. But dbd has a big issue with snowballing objectives and making the EGC start when the last gen is popped will help games be slightly less 1-sided. Not to mention making the end game actually engaging for players and not just a tedious camp-off.
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@MortisCarnifex said:
I would love to see the memento Mori for this killer. I imagine the beetle death scene from "The Mummy".
It would prefer them dying by the sand. It would happen like this:
Pharaoh leans over downed survivor as a sinkhole is formed beneath the survivor's feet
Survivor starts to sink and panics, grabbing onto the Pharaoh's legs
Pharaoh learns down and opens his mouth, as dozens of scarab beetles fly out from his mouth and eyes
The survivor lets got in an attempt to swat the beetles and then has their torso swallowed by the earth
The survivor clutches the ground as their head is swallowed, screaming all the while, until they are completely absorbed into the earth
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@TerminatorGuy said:
I absolutely love a chapter based on ancient Egypt and a pharaoh/mummy killer. Soo much potential with ancient Egyptian culture, character design and especially map design. I like the abilities you made. I really hope the devs make a mummy/ ancient Egypt chapter one day.
I concur. There's loads of inspiration to draw from and if they end up adding an Egyptian themed killer I hope they get the chase music down. I can easily imagine one that would go great with with the Pharoah, as he approaches you from the sand.
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This is correct. Although it's unlikely that we're going to be getting even decent perks in the foreseeable future.
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I don't know about being one of the strongest killer combo's, but I've never seen someone properly used Legion's Iridescent button add-on.
My combo is:
Add-ons : Cold Dirt, Iridescent Button
Perks: Enduring, Spirit Fury, Bamboozle, Pop Goes The Weasel
If you're already good with chasing as a M1 killer, this build helps speed up chases. I focus on making the survivor I'm chasing drop the pallet as early as possible in a loop, toggle my power and vault over it, which will then break the pallet and add to SF's counter, then instantly cancel the power and resume the chase. Bamboozle improves my vaulting speed, even over the pallets, and Pop is general gen slow-down.
Overall, definitely not the best build for killer, but it can work.
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@KingFrost said:
So the killer just has to guard the exit gates for roughly 3 minutes, and they win? That doesn't seem fair. Especially when a killer like Trapper can just trap the exit gates. The Endgame Countdown begins once the exit gates are opened to usher survivors out, and end any stare down contests where survivors can hold a killer hostage. The killer cannot be held hostage thanks to the EGC. They can either open the exit gates themselves, and force the survivors out. Or they can defend the exit gates for as long as they feel comfortable doing so. But survivors STILL have a chance at opening those gates, saving people, etc... as long as the game continues.
If there's more than 2 survivors alive, getting the doors open is laughably easy. Even with killers designed with area control, Trapper, Hag, etc, they simply can't protect the gates for that long. Never mind that to trigger the EGC currently, they have to forgo one of the gates entirely, and any pressure they had prior to opening it.
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@mouse0270 said:
Um, killers can open the door. Having 2 minute timer to open doors and save people is crazy.. plus BW would be OP AF at that point.
If you want the timer to start faster, open the door.
It absolutely would not be OP.
I've already gone over why opening the door is a terrible idea since it removes all of the the killer's pressure and forces them to guard the gate they just opened for the survivors.
As for BW, remember that the EGC timer slows when a survivor is downed or hooked. Having already tried to get kills with the EGC for a challenge, (another atrocious design choice by the way) that it's very difficult to get value out of it beyond a down or 2. Since once survivors know you have it they'll just hide and wait out the timer, usually right outside BW's detection range, and escape once it's done.
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@IceCreamPrincess said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1352454#Comment_1352454
You are right, the way EGC works currently with the main way it activating being in the hands of the survivors does favour survivors, but i believe that's the point. Its not a tool for killers in there arsenal, its not something you should regularly expect to use, nor should you expect it to be a good method of securing kills.
The devs intentionally made it 2mins long, and extended when someone is downed/hooked. They made a decision to have such a lenient timer and have it activate when the match is all but over. Its design, as far as i believe, is purely to make the game end. Once its activated, the match will 100% end. The killer can chase the survivors out, try to recoup losses and hold a grip on any survivors theyve caught already, or even simply wait it out and the survivors will leave within 2 minutes.
Theres 3 ways EGC activates. 1; survivor/s open a gate, so the match is already pretty much over. 2: killer opens the gate, which is more or less a concession, or could also be used tactically (but imo is very niche and counterproductive) or 3: the hatch is closed, which is very heavily killer sided
As far as im concerned, its merely to stop matches being held fully hostage. If a killers trapped a survivor in a corner, the EGC from his teamates will still end the match. If the last survivor is hiding forever, closing the hatch will force them to move. Only hostage situation it doesn't stop is the final survivor getting trapped by the killer, or 2+ survivors in positions the killer can't reach
Tldr: its designed to end matches, not be a tool for killers to kill with
As you said yourself, by the time survivors have the gate open they've already won most of the time. So why not finally have a change that helps counter snowballing? How the EGC was originally designed is irreverent. Left Behind is a perk that was originally designed, but that doesn't change the fact that the actual design is terrible.
I'll admit that comparing Left Behind and the EGC isn't a 1:1 comparison, but my point still stands that originally designed or not the EGC could be better implemented to give players a more engaging game. As a survivor, I don't feel engaged when I know there's a 99% chance that once my team has the gates open I've already escaped. And as killer I don't feel engaged staring at someone for 2 minutes.
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@Flatskull said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1352431#Comment_1352431
Then the devs failed and basically made a t-bag at the gate timer. It might as well be 30 seconds or something if thats' the case. But clearly it isn't since it's meant to allow survivors to still act and do things. Including saving other survivors and there's more than enough time to run out. Loot or whatever then come back.
Great idea but this requires the killer to break pressure at key end game point..walk up to a gate that generally on the far side of map...open the gate...then somehow apply pressure while the gate is open. So unless you got NOED or every survivor is injured you ain't doing nothing as killer and we all know it. keep in mind while all this is happening the survivors are also opening-or have opened- the other gate. This type of stuff is what made blood warden a dead perk thanks to survivors having control of a timer that should pressure them, for some reason.
There is no way to apply pressure in this scenario without noed and possibly warden combo and even then...YOU are at the gate...so you got to run back and hope the survivors havent scattered to the other gate and left. This dosen't apply pressure...it just makes you conede the game. The only way I've seen this trick work is if you downed someone near the gate and you have blood warden.
Timers by design apply pressure.
No survivor die to EGC because they control when it happens thanks to the mistake of playing it on gate activation, which is the home free point of the game for survivors. This is more a flaw in the game, wiether a flaw by design or not.
EGC should just activate at the last gen. There's enough time to open either gate, time extenstions to save people and people control when gens are done-so they stll have some control of when it activates- at least with the gate still closed and then having to get to it the timer will run down a bit. Making people actually leave when they finally open it because some anxiety/pressure is up or they will muck around and die to it.
This is exactly what I mean. It makes no sense for the EGC timer to just stop games from going on forever. Killer's, unless using 1 or more endgame perk, are always weakest once the gens are complete. Guarding the gates can be physically impossible if they spawn too far apart.
Changing the EGC to start once the final gen is complete would help even out the power dynamic since most survivors who repair all gens are most likely going to escape, due to DBD's tendency to heavily snowball in one team's favor.
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@thrawn3054 said:
That's the point. To give them time to try to save. If the game didn't punish you for not saving then I suppose you could start it then.
But that's the thing, it gives them too much time. Potentially infinite time in fact. The EGC is the only thing that actually pressures survivors once the gens have been done. But since one of the gates have to be open to trigger it, it rarely does, causing most of my late games to be me pitching my tent, roasting some marshmallows, and preparing for the 2 minute long camp I'm likely to undertake.
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@drimmalor This seems like a heavily flawed concept to me.
The whole point of blocking a generator should be for the killer to stop survivors from repairing it. The survivor's have no reason to ever block a gen unless to the killer from using PGTW with the upcoming perk. But this in of itself isn't a good solution. Because although you're preventing 25% progress from being lost, you're also losing 30 seconds of progress from blocking the gen, actually more than what you would have lost otherwise.
And as I said, the actual gen regression is really, really slow. 0.25% of progress is lost per second, taking a total of 320 seconds to fully regress a 99.9% generator. If you're lucky enough to get DMT to proc just as it activates, (the only way to block a gen for 45 seconds as of current and very difficult to pull off for the full duration), then at most the gen will lose 14%, or just 12 seconds of progress. And that's not even counting if multiple survivors are on the gen.
You certainly aren't sitting there watching your gen progress go away. Even you get the full duration of DMT you can still work on a different generator for the time being. Basically, I don't see how gen blocking is this neutral thing that's supposed to shut down both parties when it really just benefits one.
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@Mooks said:
so you pretty much don’t understand „hitting someone on the hook“, „buttdancing after pallet stun/at exit gates“ or „pointing at killer after a pallet stun“...
honestly... how can you not understand that many people do this as insults? It’s really not hard to grasp. You cannot show the middlefinger in this game so people use what they have got on their hands, and those actions are all totally unnecessary in those situations and non of these are fun to do or do anything other than taunt the opponent.
How can you not see this as a personal offense? It only affects that person and is taking away some of your time.
there are of course no rules against it and you can keep doing it, but acting surprised that someone doesn’t like it is pretty much only making it more rude..
I absolutely do not see these as personal offensives because there's nothing personal about them.
Killers get stunned by pallets all the time, survivors "butt dance" all the time. You can argue all you want about intended offence. But it's absurd to think that any of this is personal. If it's just a collection of actions that are meant to insult people then there can be nothing about them directed towards a single person.
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@Mooks said:
May I ask if you find teabagging or pointing after a pallet stun to be toxic/rude or something?
I've already said my thoughts on tea bagging in this post. As for pointing, it's... pointing. It's honestly difficult for me to determine what someone means when they point unless it's really obvious like; "Repair this gen", or "Heal me".