SirCracken
SirCracken
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@LALYTHIA said:
Because it's usually meant as an insult. Like incessant nodding, teabagging, etc.
That's actually something else I've been wondering about. Why people care at all about survivors teabagging.
The concept is the humiliation of an already defeated opponent by rubbing your balls over their corpse, because you had managed to kill them. But I really don't the action makes any sense to use in dbd.
You can't ever kill a killer, so you can't fulfill the one requirement of tea bagging in the first place, that being shaming your enemy's corpse. People just teabag on the spot as if that's somehow an insult and not missing the entire point of the action.
The most I can understand is survivors teabagging at the exit gates. But even then it's usually a save distance away from the killer so the survivors cannot be punished for taunting them.
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@tixerp said:
Babies. Hitting hooked survivors mid-game is kind of a dick move, since you generally shouldn't facecamp. Unless it's just 1 little slap for fun/vent, then back on the road. But to me personally, if you're the last survivor struggling on hook, then killers smacking you is kinda like a taunt in any other game. Like a fatality from MK, or taunting for the killcam in TF2. Which is something anyone could laugh at for a second and move on, but not for DBD. Survivors need to get all of those struggle points I guess, so your wacking taunt lasts a lot more than a second, and happens to come off as rude. Yeah I dunno man.
This has been the most comprehensible reason to me so far.
Cheers!
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@MadLordJack said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1324581#Comment_1324581
Because it's insulting. You are trying to rub in the fact that you hooked them so much that you are throwing the game just to lord over them that you finally caught and hooked them.
Or another way to look at it: please explain to me how erecting my longest finger is in any way insulting to you. I'm just stretching it, there's nothing wrong with that. What do you mean, there's context and intent behind the act that makes it insulting? I was just stretching it, I swear.
But the act of flipping up your middle finger has years of history behind it, used in multiple cultures as a sign of disrespect.
Dbd has been out less than 4 years and is a hot mess of balance issues. I don't see how the act of making a mistake and being punished for it, (which cannot even be in your control someones) is not worse than the killer hitting you on the hook, which as I've already said, only helps your team by giving them extra time.
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@LetsPlayTogether said:
"I got outplayed this is not fair". - killer mains. Always.
I fail to see how healing someone is somehow "outplaying the killer".
It seems more like a weird and clunky interaction that just happens to favor the survivor.
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@MadLordJack said:
Why do some people get annoyed when I flip them off or tell them to go ######### themselves?
Okay. Can you explain to me how hitting someone on the hook is identical to flipping someone off?
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@Yamaoka said:
Smacking a survivor on hook is just rude and I honestly think you are intelligent enough to understand that yourself.
Survivors typically wait for minutes to get into a lobby and they expect to have a fun match just like you so imagine being the first one to get caught and the killer happens to be a bad sport who thinks other players are just pinatas.
Being someone's pinata is not exactly the most fun way to spend your spare time and not particularly satisfying when you had to wait for that experience for minutes.
I can understand getting annoyed if I've waited a while to get into a game, only to then be downed and hooked a minute in. But I'm failing to understand the mindset of expecting a fun game.
If I misplay and get hooked, It's not fun, but nor should it be. I've objectively made a mistake and I'm punished for it. However there are loads of factors to making a mistake in dbd, your team mates, the map, killer, etc. And a lot of those factors are outside of your control. But there is still a degree of control to your actions, including limiting your expectations when entering a match. I don't see how the act of making a mistake and getting hooked is not worse than getting hit on a hook after making a mistake.
For me, I expect every game to go as badly as possible, that RNG and match making will screw me over at every turn and there's nothing I can do about it. It makes it so that when I successfully punish a survivor or avoid making a mistake it's very satisfying. And so I sometimes capitalize on this brief period of "everything not going wrong" by hitting the person on the hook because I think I can afford it, but mainly because I think it's fun.
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@ScottJund said:
I don't think the base premise of "Saying boring is an excuse" even makes sense. An excuse for what? Losing? You can win and still be extremely bored. If you're bored, you're bored.
I believe it means that the argument that some people make: "I think that X should be removed because I find it boring to play against" is not valid because it only considers the feelings of the person making the argument and not if "X" is objectively good or bad for the game.
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Even though it was not as unlikely as you initially thought, I imagine it was still pretty satisfying.
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Most creepypastas are not well written.
Go back to some of the few that you've mentioned, Jeff especially, and read their stories. Most of it is over dramatic, edgy garage that got popular through pure exposure, rather than good writing.
In essence, they are not good horror icons. And I think them being added to dbd would be incredibly forced.
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@OutcastEric said:
Dont like any of these. I feel like monstrous shrine would make it impossible for survivors to get out of the basement.
Reduce the crows by 5 seconds
make thrill of the hunt exhausted instead of hindered
leave agitation alone.
Impossible? Broken has the side-effect of stopping people from making basement heals and encouraging them to gtfo as fast as possible. The hindered will help guard it better from rescuers but isn't some impenetrable wall.
The crows I honestly think needs to be tested in-game to see what is a good duration to put them.
Why exhausted instead of hindered?
Agitation is in a weird position with Iron Grasp. Both perks are useful and synergise together, but Agitation is just good enough on it's own. There's currently no reason to run IG over it. So I think making the perk fill a different role would make IG actually worth choosing while not completely changing Agitation.
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@OutcastEric said:
Dont like any of these. I feel like monstrous shrine would make it impossible for survivors to get out of the basement.
Reduce the crows by 5 seconds
make thrill of the hunt exhausted instead of hindered
leave agitation alone.
Impossible? Broken has the side-effect of stopping people from making basement heals and encouraging them to gtfo as fast as possible. The hindered will help guard it better from rescuers but isn't some impenetrable wall.
The crows I honestly think needs to be tested in-game to see what is a good duration to put them.
Why exhausted instead of hindered?
Agitation is in a weird position with Iron Grasp. Both perks are useful and synergise together, but Agitation is just good enough on it's own. There's currently no reason to run IG over it. So I think making the perk fill a different role would make IG actually worth choosing while not completely changing Agitation.
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@FFirebrandd said:
I'd much rather have them do something about Legion losing half their power gauge on an M1. Either that or make some of their add ons better.
This is also worth doing.
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@SirCracken said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1322130#Comment_1322130
*cough cough* Corrupt intervention *cough cough*
It is automatically activated at the start of the trial.
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But it is extremely unlikely that any Legion against a decent survivor team will be able to get more than 2 consecutive hits. Wouldn't it be better to change their power into something more useful than buff the few situations in which Legion is already doing well?
Also the exposed on the 4th hit is very redundant. You've already injured the person so they'll go down on the next hit anyway.
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@Todgeweiht said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1322112#Comment_1322112
I cant recall any killer perks that can be used only once per trial
*cough cough* Corrupt intervention *cough cough*
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Yes. It should have some sort of effect besides allowing the killer to send you to a cage.
I think that having louder groans when injured or bleeding more frequently should be a good addition.
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@DelsKibara said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1321950#Comment_1321950
I know it's not consistent, but I think an "Offensive Action" is anything that injures or downs a Survivor, moris don't count towards that.
They should really just say; "Actions that can down survivors"
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@C3Tooth said:
So thats mean gunshot a survivor then M1 will drops 2 token? Sounds much but actually fair, he may had 125% speed before shooting after all
That makes no sense. Getting 3 tokens is already hard enough. Why should playing a certain killer force you to lose 2 of them just to get a single hit that may not even down someone?
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@NMCKE said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/157811/option-to-disable-auto-aim
Auto-aim is actually called Aim Dressing. It makes a hit that you shouldn't get look more convincing and vice versa. 😅
I believe the developers are planning to keep auto-aim, but change a few things that makes it so frustrating. Peanits mentioned in a different thread that they are planning to iron out some kinks in auto-aim, but that's really it, we're stuck with it. 🙂
It also changes the direction of your hits sometimes. Leading to situations where attacks you should have got, particularly at corners, are taken away because the game makes you hit a wall.
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@Todgeweiht said:
Im not asking for nerfs or anything, I just dont like his play style, he feels too easy.
Can you explain how he is too easy?
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@Yamaoka said:
Personally I think he's boring to play as and against. Probably the most brainless killer amongst the strong ones in the game, too. Snares is literally just spam them all the time with no strategy - free hit. Fake pallets are just as brainless. Just spam them all around the map and hit them during the fake-pallet drop animation. Boring.
The only fun thing you can do with him is faking the teleport to make survivors run into you or teleporting to a near-by gen during a chase to cut them off but other than that there's nothing exciting about playing him.
Also having only 1 attack is generally boring to me.
You haven't read the post.
I've already said how spamming snares does not equal a free hit. If you really think so, you clearly haven't played much of Freddy.
You must predict where the survivor is going or where they're planning to go and find the most efficient way to cut them off. Just spamming snares around a loop only gives a good survivor more leeway in where they decide to go next since you've effectively removed your chase potential by getting rid of all of your other snares.
I'll admit that pallets are mostly a "set and forget" type of thing. But you still need to herd survivors into them as Freddy and memorize where they are as survivor. Both of these actions require cognitive thought and are not brainless.
And please stop saying what is or isn't fun without and explanation as to why. It just further waters down the discussion because you don't add anything of substance. What am I supposed to say to "I don't find this fun" when you don't even bother to explain why?
The only thing I'll agree with is that Freddy having 1 attack, (and by that I think you mean no other means of injuring survivors besides M1), is a bit dull.
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@PigNRun said:
About Cruel Confinement, do you mean nearest vaults to the Killer or the completed generator? Just making sure, because that was a common suggestion whenever the discussion comes up.
The 5 closest windows to the killer.
It would basically be a complementary perk to Bitter Murmur.
Just updated the post to better reflect this.
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@Warlock_2020 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1137061#Comment_1137061
lol You contradict yourself by saying they are valid strategies and rightfully stating you lose map pressure. The goal is not to kill one. Ot is to kill them all. Camping and tunneling depends upon bad survivor play to be successful. That makes them bad plans, not valid strategies. Huge difference between them.
Just talking from a strategic point of view here.
I didn't contradict myself.
If you have 2 survivors in the basement, or 1 survivor about to die on the hook, camping is the ideal thing to do as survivors lose more pressure doing gens than trying to save their team mates.
Camping and tunnelling do not require bad players to work, but they obviously work better if survivors miss-play.
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@Deadeye said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1139239#Comment_1139239
Just to the point with the survivors being seen as collective. I don't understand how this has becoming so popular, but unhooks are done so inefficiently. It is so more common to go for unsecure insta unhooks than to make use of the minute you have before next hook state starts. You can do half a gen and still get there in time. I even see people hop of a gen the second someone gets downed, even if I run Prove Thyself and we could finish the gen in 20 seconds.
And I think, this behavior somehow has pushed a lot of killers to be at least proxy camping, because they literally know there is someone else near the hook, because it is just the case in 90% I really think camping would not be such a big problem if survivors were not so greedy for saves.
I absolutely agree.
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@VolantConch1719 said:
Okay then.
SHOW me where it was said that the premise was always the Survivors eventually becoming Killers. Old Alpha text. Dev tweet. Dev post on reddit or here. SOMETHING to back up that premise you claim has always been present.
And I'm not trying to purposefully attack you. This is an idea that I would also like to see explored. But I seem to remember, before the Void being revealed sometime after Legion (I think it was shortly after Legion's release anyway, given OLD discussion posts from December 2018 talking about it here), that the premise was that the Survivors are in an infinite cycle of life and death, accepting that they cannot escape but still try anyway.
THAT'S the premise I seem to remember. Not the Survivors eventually becoming Killers. And believe me, I pay attention to the lore. It's what got me here in the first place. If you can show me where you found that premise, then I'll believe you. Until then, I stand by the lore we are given in the game.
I've always known what the premise was as it's my favourite part of the game's lore, and until now I was having quite a lot of trouble trying to find the passage that mentions survivors becoming killers. And now I realise why.
They literally rewrote the official wiki without telling anyone.
In this guide, in the "Customs and Traditions", a quote from the wiki is mentioned from how it was at the time. https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=950545138
"With each passing death a little of the survivor's soul is lost. Eventually as all hope evaporates, the survivor becomes less and less useful to the Entity, slowly devolving into a cold and emotionless shell.These lost survivors, whose hope has long since left them, eventually become what they once feared so much: the very killers that hunted them."And here's what that passage is now.
With each passing death, a little bit of the Survivor's soul is lost. Eventually as all hope evaporates, the Survivor becomes less and less useful to The Entity, slowly devolving into a cold and emotionless shell. Those lost Survivors, whose hope has long since left them, were eventually thrown into a limbo realm known as "The Void".I don't know what I'm more livid about.
How they completely discarded a brilliant idea or how they did it WITHOUT ######### TELLING ANYONE.
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@ChiTenshi said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1139124#Comment_1139124
1) It's core design is to counter tunnelling, that we can't deny. It's supposed to punish a Killer if they pursue a player who was recently unhooked.
Currently, it is used for more than countering tunnelling.
2) It unintentionally counters camping. It's not designed to counter camping, but it will help a Survivor to escape from a camped situation.
3) You're looking at this from the wrong angle. You ask "Why should the Killer be punished for Survivor mistakes?", but ignore "Why should the unhooked Survivor be punished for another Survivor's mistake?".
This is why DS was designed to be strong. Solo Survivors need a chance to get out of the situation that they've been unfairly dropped into. Yes, it's unfair to the Killer who wants to tunnel, but that's why it's an anti-tunnel perk.
4) The person who posted that statement is an idiot.
5) There is a drawback of having to be hooked to activate it (don't know why this is glossed over). A Killer equivalent perk would be MYC.
Balance changes are needed, and once applied the Locker + DS combo won't be an issue.
6) It punishes the Survivor for doing anything else other than being chased.
7) The statement misses some detail. If you can catch the Survivor easily, eat the stun. If not, chase someone else. Eating the stun is a valid option, but only against some Survivors.
8) DS needs some balance changes, most of the community agrees on that.
First off, I want to thank you for actually taking the time and patience to write up some civil counter-points. This forum needs more people like you.
Now onto addressing your actual arguments.
1) It's core design is to counter tunnelling, that we can't deny. It's supposed to punish a Killer if they pursue a player who was recently unhooked.Here is the main reason why I loathe DS on a conceptual level.
As a killer, if someone is farmed right in front of me and I want to win, I am going to down the farmed person. Not only are they already injured, but they're now 1 hook closer to death. For my objective to be completed in the most efficient way possible I have to target them.
DS punishes me for doing my job efficiently.
I think we can all agree that getting camped, farmed, and tunnelled sucks and is generally boring to have happen. But adding in a free-escape perk doesn't fix the main issue as to why these actions happen in the first place.
2) It unintentionally counters camping. It's not designed to counter camping, but it will help a Survivor to escape from a camped situation.Agreed. I only brought this up because I saw other people use this as an argument.
3) You're looking at this from the wrong angle. You ask "Why should the Killer be punished for Survivor mistakes?", but ignore "Why should the unhooked Survivor be punished for another Survivor's mistake?".But that's the thing, survivors shouldn't be seen as singular, they should be seen as a collective.
A farmer unhooking in the killer's face is harming themselves just as much as the team mate they're dooming. Losing a fellow survivors means there's 1 less person to distract or do gens, drastically reducing everyone else's chance for survival.
If a survivor is un-safely unhooked, every other survivor is punished because it is their job to work together as a team. If one of them suffers, they all suffer.
I've already stated how I want communication added in so solo players can better coordinate and allow the game to be better balanced around a team of survivors rather than 4 randoms.
4) The person who posted that statement is an idiot.Yep.
5) There is a drawback of having to be hooked to activate it (don't know why this is glossed over). A Killer equivalent perk would be MYC.Balance changes are needed, and once applied the Locker + DS combo won't be an issue.But the "drawback" only activates when the survivor makes a mistake that leads them to getting hooked.
MYC activates only after the killer has played efficiently. DS activates when the survivor has played poorly.
6) It punishes the Survivor for doing anything else other than being chased.Like I said, this would help fix DS being used in the early game. But after the gates are open it goes right back to punishing the killer for playing efficiently. Because once they are open, what else are you going to do but be chased?
7) The statement misses some detail. If you can catch the Survivor easily, eat the stun. If not, chase someone else. Eating the stun is a valid option, but only against some Survivors.At no point during a game should a player be punished for performing well.
If the killer manages to find, hit and down a survivor 30 seconds after they were unhooked, why should they then be forced to either give them a free escape or slug them for the remaining 30 seconds?
I'll admit that slugging them still allows for pressure to be applied on gens and other survivors, but not only is it boring for the survivor, it still isn't as effective as putting them back on hook, since that is the fastest way to both kill survivors and apply pressure.
There's also the chance that they are running Unbreakable, which completely stunts the killer's game momentum even though they played well.
8) DS needs some balance changes, most of the community agrees on that.At this point I honestly don't know how much of the community even cares at this point. I've seen my fair share of players that seem to be using a version of dbd from an alternate reality, and have little to no understanding of how the game is played.
Regardless, I hope those that do care are sane enough to agree with this.
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System decided to copy my comment from earlier.
Ignore this.
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Just woke up and saw how much this thread blew up. I'm going to run down some of the counter arguments I've been seeing as to why DS shouldn't be nerfed.
"It counters tunneling"This is very common misconception from people who don't understand killer priorities. If in a game as killer, you know that at least 1 out of the 4 survivors will instantly escape your grasp after an unhook, you'll want to get rid of that second chance as soon as possible.
Why?
Because although losing a survivor can falter your game momentum, it's far better to eat the stun early on when if the gates are opened the survivor will simply run towards them after the stun and get a free escape. And once you've eaten a stun, you know which of the 4 survivors no longer has DS, encouraging you to tunnel them further as to get your momentum back.
DS, essentially, promotes tunnelling. It doesn't counter it at all.
"It punishes campers"Ignoring the fact that some individuals see existing on the map as camping, this is also false. Say it's the end game and you've got someone hooked. Both the gates are open and you have no idea where the other survivors are.
Why would you leave the hook? It is only strategically sound decision to make if you want a kill. Camping is the only viable option.
Now say that despite you camping the person on the hook they are saved in your face and immediately downed again. How is it far that they should then get a free escape because the killer was playing optimally?
in this scenario, it is physically impossible to down someone else because the gates are already opened and if you can't insta-down anyone they'll just run to gates after getting injured. Why, then, should picking up the only person that it makes sense to down result in the person getting a free escape?
True, in some cases killers in-optimally decide to camp when they could patrol gens. But even then camping already has a counter that existed way before DS.
Doing gens while the killer isn't pressuring them.
Deciding to unhook in the killer's face should not be rewarded. Doing your objective should.
"It helps solo players when they have bad team mates"I'll agree that it can be frustrating as hell some idiot unhooks me directly in front of the killer. But punishing the killer for capitalising on survivor mistakes isn't the way to fix this.
In my opinion, dbd should be balanced around 4 player communication and completely close the gap between solo players and 4-man squads.
Keeping DS in it's current state, a state that can be just as easily abused by a single player as it can 4, just promotes stale gameplay and further sours the already boring survivor perk meta.
"You're just a bad killer. Go after someone else and stop tunneling"As much of a straw man as this seems, I've seen this "argument" fairly often in the forums.
Needless to say that anyone who uses it has their opinion on the matter automatically voided.
Ad Hominem's don't equal good points. Stop using them and try to understand the game better before making stupid statements.
"DS just needs some changes to balance it out. The locker tech isn't the problem."One of the more reasonable arguments, but still wrong.
Ever since DS has been released it has been broken. Giving a survivor a free escape without a drawback in any context is objectively bad design.
Can you imagine if there was a killer perk that automatically downed survivors who tried to repair gens once per match with no drawbacks?
That's DS. A perk that punishes the killer for doing their job correctly and rewards the survivor for making mistakes.
The locker tech is just compounding the problem of how DS is designed.
"Just make it so that DS deactivates once the survivor starts performing and action like repairing or healing"While I agree that this is a step in the right direction, it still doesn't fix the problem of DS becoming a free escape during the end game.
This could also be easily abused by survivors that deliberately body block after getting saved so the killer has to wait out the timer anyway, or just eat the stun. Speaking of which...
"Just eat the stun"I've already mentioned just how bad eating a stun is for your game momentum as a killer. This logic is like saying "just get downed after you're exposed by MYC". Except MYC actually has a specific requirement to activate that the killer has to go out of their way to ensure it does.
Whereas DS has such an easy to activate requirement that anyone, no matter how bad, will still be able to waste the killer's time by making mistakes. Something that they should actively avoid doing.
"DS isn't even a problem"This is the last one I'll address for now.
If you genuinely think this, you don't understand the game on a fundamental level.
Giving a particular side, in any game, rewards for messing up makes the game stale and boring because there's less incentive to perform well and improve.
A well coordinated team of survivors doesn't even need perks to completely ruin 9-10 killers day. But the existence of DS makes it so that the same can be true of people who have no idea what they're doing.
In short, not only does the locker tech with DS desperately need to go, the perk needs a massive drawback for the power it offers.
Something that will affect survivors both during the early and end game.
Well that's all she wrote. Thanks for making it this far. I never expected my post would get this much attention.
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@VolantConch1719 said:
Not trying to sound rude or anything, but that is not the premise of the game.
The premise of the game is that the Entity feeds off the hope of the Survivors, yes, but it does NOT have them become Killers. In fact, Killers are just as fed off of as Survivors.
In Tome I: Awakening, we are introduced to a man simply called the Alchemist. Through his Archive, we see the Void. Here, the Entity stores the husks of Survivors and Killers that are no longer of any use to it. These people have had all of their hope drained, and are trapped in the Void. They are neither alive or dead; just empty husks standing around aimlessly, unsure of their purpose.
There are no Survivors that have becomes Killers... except for the Alchemist. His last archive speaks of how he is willing to tear both Survivor AND Killer apart limb from limb just so he can get one more flower. These flowers give him power, and he is constantly searching for one more. Then another one. And another one.
The premise of the game is the same it's always been, but I'm aware of the uninspired retconing that are the tomes, and how boring they is.
It turns what could otherwise have been an interesting struggle into the entity being a generic eldritch bad guy that dines on hope like Mcdonald's fries, without any nuance that could've been brought out in the characters it snatches.
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@toxicmegg said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1137147#Comment_1137147
it's just facts. i think you see it the way you want to see it, not the way it is. because you and other salty killer mains want to tunnel without any issues. and if something is a bait, it's your comment. thank you, next :)
Passive aggression does not substitute for good arguments.
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@BigBrainMegMain said:
You know what's funny, there's a post on here begging killers to stop tunneling, and this post wants to get rid of the one of the only factors that allows survivors a chance against tunneling.
Ironic.
Not only is that not even the correct use of irony, you seem to be under the impression that tunnelling is not easily countered by just doing gens.
Granted, the killer will probably get whoever they are targeting, but everyone else will easily escape.
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@BigBrainMegMain said:
You know what's funny, there's a post on here begging killers to stop tunneling, and this post wants to get rid of the one of the only factors that allows survivors a chance against tunneling.
Ironic.
You what the main, and most efficient way to counter tunnelling is?
Do generators while the killer isn't pressuring them.
Stop acting like an easily counter-able strategy is somehow the bane of every survivors existence.
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@Guilty87 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1137019#Comment_1137019
This is not a conversation about him maybe downing a survivor or how he can or how easily you can dodge a chainsaw. So many of you are way off the topic.
Can you blame them? Your topic revolves around nerfing Bubba. The fact that you don't realise how insane that is means that people really don't have to take your idea seriously.
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I don't think you understand how this game works.
Camping and tunneling are both valid strategies that have their own benefits and draw backs;
- Camping helps guarantee a kill but removes all of your map pressure
- Tunneling also helps secure a kill but makes it harder to pressure other survivors
It's not the killer's job to ensure you have an enjoyable experience, (other than simply being your opponent.)
It's the killer's job to KILL you. How they go about this is entirely up to them.
If you dislike tunneling and camping so much, I'd recommend either getting good at prolonging chases, or doing gens.
Either are solid counter-strategies if you know what you are doing.
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@Irisora said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1136994#Comment_1136994
You way of responding doesn't make any sense its like saying "apply pressure" when you get gen rushed. I gived you facts and arguments of why DS and BT is broken in endgame and you just respond with "if you played well everyone should be dead" and "if they try to save stop them" lol. Like if it was possible with directional unhooks... and theres nothing you can do againts a DS and a BT in endgame, its literally a free escape same lvl of ######### like noed.
If you are not trolling, I think a new meme has born here 🤣
I second that
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@toxicmegg said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1136959#Comment_1136959
of course you can tunnel if you want but then you should stop complaining about perks that counter tunneling. if those perks are so big issue then stop tunneling lol i seriously don't understand, i never have issue with these perks as killer because i simply don't ######### tunnel.
no one is "forced" to eat the DS, it's their own choice
DS doesn't even counter tunneling. If anything, it encourages the killer to eat the stuns early on so they don't become a free escape during the end game.
And please don't give me that laughable excuse about "not being forced to eat the stun". That's like saying you're not forced to save a team mate and get exposed by MYC. It's your direct objective, and the perk punishes you for deciding to complete it efficiently.
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I agree with this statement.
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@Reborn2020 said:
Thats the issue? Really? i could argue ds is being a problem or not but this...
DS is already a badly designed perk that rewards mistakes.
Being able to force the killer to eat the stun or waste their time just makes it worse.
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@toxicmegg said:
"i want to tunnel without getting punished in any ways at all so please make the perk useless"
"I want my free head start without the killer countering me"
See? I can make condescending quotes too.
Seriously though. It doesn't matter if you're tunneling or not, (not that it matters since tunneling is a valid strategy), it is ludicrous that you can force the killer either eat the stun or waste an entire minute of their time just to punish a mistake.
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@Rivyn said:
They haven't even fixed the window tech yet, and that's a minor issue, so I highly doubt it.
Oh yeah. Almost forgot that phasing through the killer's torso to vault a window was a thing.
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@Guilty87 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1136931#Comment_1136931
Insta down with a lower skill ceiling than billy and the ability to down multiple survivors.
Pfffttt
He can insta-down people, if they aren't anyway near a decent loop and have no pallets.
As for the multi-down... guess where the best opportunity to utilize that is? While camping a hook.
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@Guilty87 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1136924#Comment_1136924
Imagine thinking camping is his intended strength.
That is literally all he is good at!
Tell me then, what are his other "strengths"?
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@Guilty87 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1136910#Comment_1136910
I am asking for a power that is made for face camping to have a limit on how long he can hold that charge at one time. It would not affect his normal gameplay at all you completely missed the point of my original post.
No, you are missing the point of Bubba. His one, and only real strength, is that he can guard hooks extremely well. Trying to change that shows that you don't understand his current, and sad, state of balance.
Even if your absurd change were to go through, bubba's would just sit next to the hook and start rev'ing when someone tries to go for the save. Adding an overheat mechanic wouldn't change anything.
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You do realize you are asking for one of the worst killers in the game to be nerfed?
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Not all the perks you have listed are relevant. Not going to lie though, they could all do with some changes, but I'll specify the ones that I meant in my post.
All survivor perks that are designed to help you know where other survivors are will need to be changed, such as Empathy and Kindred. Using voice chat completely negates them since you can just ask where your team mates are. But overall, I think the change would definitely be worth it. Loads more perks might become useful, maybe even viable, and would be a welcome addition to the stale meta perks we currently have.
As for stealth killers, their gimmick has usually been that they're good at landing the first hit on a survivor due to their power, but have difficulty downing them efficiently. Since every other survivor in the trial knows when another survivor has been injured already thanks to the status icons I don't think this will be a big problem.
I'm not completely against the idea of having a proximity chat. Perhaps a walkie talkie or something could be added as an item to speak over range? I'm not really sure. But I absolutely think that even the bare minimum of these changes would do the game a world of good.
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Voice chat should have been added into the game long ago. In dbd's inception it wasn't designed with it in mind, but so many perks are completely invalidated by simple communication between survivors that it hardly seems worth it to keep to this bizarre design decision.
In short, voice chat should be added and all knowledge/awareness perks should be rebalanced accordingly.
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I believe what your intentions were, I think, but your actual post is incredibly disjointed.
I can't understand most of it.
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By the holy mother of all that is straw-manning.
I understand that certain players take their complaints a bit too far, but you have a terrible understanding of how killer is played.
The DS complaints... DS is used so much because of killers who are lazy and just want an easy kill. While I get that survivors would feel less reluctant to use DS if they weren't getting tunneled every game, I hate running DS it's boring as hell. But sadly I gotta force myself to run it because killers feel like it's fun to instantly down and target a somewhat exposed survivor. You only got yourselves to blame for the high usage of DS.DS is used because it is one of the most powerful survivor perks in the game, not because killers want easy kills. It doesn't matter if you down a survivor the moment they get off the hook, or 59 seconds later by randomly finding them again, DS will still reward the survivor with a free escape and head start because the killer did their job correctly while the survivor messed up and got rewarded.
I understand that being tunneled and camped can be frustrating, but claiming that only bad killers do that while also complaining about being targeted because you are exposed, (out of position and easier to down), is a double standard.
Ruin... Oh boy I would hate to see how much you guys sucked back when the old ruin was a thing and it got cleansed... Probably a instant DC...why do you guys try and rely on a gen slow down totem to get kills. Devour Hope is a great alternative...if you want to run a hex or even Noed. But there's some good builds out there, make your killer stronger with perks instead of trying to slow the game down.Ruin was only useful against low-mid tier skill survivors. High skill survivors were already able to hit skill checks consistently and thus rarely bothered cleansing it unless they happened to find it's, (usually terrible), spawn placement.
Do not try to group up all killers as salty losers who DC the moment their totem is cleansed. It's factually inaccurate and just furthers the divide between killer and survivor communities. I could just as easily say that all survivors DC the moment they are downed. Some do, but certainly not all.
As for slowing down gens, they get done extremely fast. Playing any killer that cannot reliably down survivors within a minute means that for every chase you finally complete there will be at least 1 completed gen, usually more. You should be complaining about the objectives, not the builds that killers use to counter the speed at which they are completed.
BT is the same scenario to camping, tunneling killers...we wouldn't run it if killers didn't camp :).I've said this once and I'll say it again, tunneling and camping are both perfectly valid strategies that can each be easily countered by just doing gens. You'll more than likely bust out all 5 if you work together before the person the killer is targeting is killed. Also, you seem to have forgotten that BT allows saves directly in the killer's face even if they aren't camping. Another example of bias.
I love when I get a good killer, has good perks... Doesn't tunnel and still gets 3/4 kills. All I seem to get is lazy killers...gen pressure is good."I like it when the killer follows the rule set that I have made and still somehow wins even though it puts them at an objective disadvantage than if they were to play optionally." This is just unreasonable.
The main issue with this game is the map sizes. It takes someone like doc a good 30/40 seconds if not more to get across coldwin...map reworks are coming.Something we agree on!
Overall, you have a severe bias and fail to understand the basics of playing killer.
Please do not claim that every killer is automatically wrong because they don't play the way you like.
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@twistedmonkey said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1136665#Comment_1136665
There are many more which don't have the option than have it.
The amount of red which are problematic like it or not is a minority in this game.
Only 3 or 4 man can fall under the banner which not all use comms or are even that good.
To say less people can't speak a language is a made up statistic. You don't know how many this would affect so its pure speculation. What we do know for certain though is it WOULD affect those no matter the number.
Players can have an I formed choice to purchase the game right now as it is. The same can't be said for those tha5 wpudlnt have a choice and be disadvantaged.
1 - This is blatantly false. Dbd is the rare exception to the multiplayer game rule of being able to talk with other players. If you know any others I'd be able to easily list twice as many that have communication through my personal experience alone.
2 - You're being hypocritical. You claim that adding player communication would ostracize those who don't speak English in your 4th point, because they are a minority as English is an extremely wide-spread language. But you then ignore red ranks, (when I think you mean high-level players since rank is meaningless), because they are also a minority.
3 - This is accurate.
4 - Same as 2. You can't claim that a change can't be made because it would affect a minority of people and then ignore a different minority of people when people want a change made.
5 - I'm going to assume some of what you meant here, so correct me if I'm wrong. Player's who aren't native English speakers would be able to play the game through the same way that they've always been. Adding the option for players to communicate wouldn't make the game less accessible. That makes no sense.
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I camp when I suspect, or definitively know, that survivors are going to be overly altruistic.
If I message them afterwards, it won't be to rub their mistake in their faces.
Unless they falsely assume that punishing them for making a mistake means I'm bad.