Shad03
Shad03
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- Shad03
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@Ember_Hunter But it's a worthwhile investment to shake the meta up.
Which is why I know it won't even be looked at by the devs.
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I actually have a Legion Overhaul idea, I'll give the gist of it here:
- All Legion members are in the match, you control one while the other three are 'idle' within a set radius around you
- The Idle Legion do NOT attack survivors unless there is a addon equipped with the express purpose of allowing it, instead, basekit allows them to just give a loud noise event when a survivor enters their line of sight, to which they sprint away.
- You play as the Legion you choose to be in the killer menu, whoever you are not will be idle.
I.E: You chose Joey then Frank will be idle
- Each Legion member has their own unique stats, and you can switch between each of them, this process takes time and the switch is made from YOUR current position. This is liable to change.
- Frank and Julie CANNOT enter Feral Frenzy, but their hits have a chance of causing Deep Wounds and giving the Killer Instinct effect. They both move around 115% and generally have a 32 meter radius.
- Susie and Joey CAN enter Feral Frenzy, playing like Pre Nerfed Legion but with around the same changes as now. Susie has the lowest speed and the lowest terror radius.
- Frank, Julie, and Susie cannot break pallets but they can vault them which gives the same amount of points as if they broke the pallet, can only be used once for the points. Vaulting speed differs among them with Susie having the fastest vault and Joey being the only one to break the pallet normally.*
*(This is because he wants to look intimidating.)
- Addons reworked! They would no longer have the same effects, that means Frank's Mix Tape and Fuming Mixtape.
- (Optional) The killer menu with the Legion selected has all four laying around with their Idle animations.
Lemme know if you have any questions.
And yes, I know this is way too complicated for BHVR to do atm. Or at all.
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Legion due to variety. I love Ghost Face, but save up for the newer one coming out soon, looks way better
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Actually she can sacrifice all of us.
Twelve words:
End Game Collapse
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Actually lads, Legal reasons isn't stopping BHVR, they just need the license. But Jason being in another game isn't what is preventing him from coming here.
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I will agree No Mither needs a agreeable buff. Though I think tier 3 should be 75% less noise, so it wouldn't be two perks at once.
15% non stack for recovery and slightly increased crawling with 5%, so if you want the full effects, you'll need the actual perks. No freebies.
And just a pure 50/75/100% BP bonus to all categories since WGLF is a David perk, and so is No Mither, meaning he would get two after match bonuses and that wouldn't be fair.
I don't see the point of making it a obsession perk.
OoO shouldn't reveal stealth killers and that's it.
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"The devs recently worked on Legion quite a bit already, and many other killers need some love too."
The only thing they did was make them a standard killer. I'm not asking for old Legion back but I was expecting more then a nerf. Making a killer 115% speed isn't a groundbreaking fix. Seeing Freddy's rework makes me feel like they could have done more with Legion. I do agree other killer's need love.
"Your main isn't more important than anyone else's."
I believe the problem is Legion was given a disservice. And isn't it telling that quite a few people are still asking for a Legion change? I'm not saying Legion should be top of the line and needs attention again. But you have to understand if people like something a lot, they'll fight to have it be made better.
But I doubt BHVR will actually make Legion fun. (My fun being a dynamicgroup who isn't powerful, but can be in the right hands. And a power that actually uses all Legion members)
Also Pig desperately needs a buff.
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So what people seem to not realize here is... Her add ons are getting changed. Her as a killer is remaining the same.
So she'll still be powerful, she just won't have the add ons to make her even more of a Goddess.
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Short answer: No.
Long answer: Not on it's own, and even then the effects are negligible. It's a good perk to have, but it isn't amazing. I will admit I use it on most of my killers, but the main reason is because the BP bonus is too much of a incentive.
I already dislike camping, so a perk that promotes leaving the hook is nice to have when I know where to look. The perk has enough counterplay as it is, and only people who don't know how to counter it or who are absolute potatoes will be affected by it. So it's not op, but it certainly helps.
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Technically you wouldn't be wrong, but you do have to factor in that the Thompson house, MacMillan Estate, the Town of Weeks, and every other named location in DbD doesn't exist in our world.
There might not have been a mass of missing people in that location in this world, but in that world there are cannibals who took people.
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I'm actually excited for the Archives as it would be able to give us a grasp on the lore of Dead by Daylight. I don't want straight up answers, but I do want to understand the world just a little bit more, and I do not want to have to rely on the devs for it. Especially when they give so little and often contradict themselves.
I understand why you may not like it, but this isn't a bad thing. It's not gonna suddenly make the game less interesting and I doubt they'd reveal everything just like that.
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Another one? God damn this needs to die. Now. I'm getting tired of all these NoEd posts.
As for my opinion? It's fair. Grab a map, preferably a rainbow map, and hunt for the totems. There, the perfect co-
No one is gonna listen to me. Why do I bother?
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Ay bouss
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"Also, if the killer can see IRL steam names should survivors see the killers? If the killer is dodging survivors that they dont like shouldnt survivors be able to do the same? I just hate double standards..."
For the same reason Death Garden removed it. The scavengers would leave a match if they saw they were up against a fairly well known and skilled hunter.
I don't like that killers dodge survivors, but when survivors are given these tools, they more likely then not abuse it more then killers do. And you can't say killers do it more, since
A) They of course had more time to dodge and stuff, so it isn't a fair comparison
B) If it were really that much of a problem, the Devs would have done something about it by now.
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Waaaazzzaaaaaaaaaapppppppp
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Downvotes sustain me! HAHAHAHAHA!
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'That's the problem though, you cannot detect him or hide from him in a single second. There's basically zero counterplay against this. It's like if Myers could enter tier 3 in just a second. Even if you begin detecting him and got the jump on him, he can just turn around and stalk you before you detected him as a survivor.'
I know, I've done it, and it's been done to me. Though are you sure you haven't been stalked prior? Some Ghost Face's (like me) don't fully stalk people until ready or because we couldn't. It could be the case you were stalked from a far, and in the time you notoced Ghost Face was there/he began to approach you, you were at 75/99%.
'It's not whether or not a survivor would want to reveal him while being carried, it's that detecting him was so buggy, that even when he's carrying you, you couldn't detect him sometimes. I dunno about you but when I'm being hauled on someone's shoulder, then I am pretty damn sure that I can see them. For example, I had this one match where I was running from GF, staring at him for 5 seconds (and running into trees and ######### as I was because I was looking behind me), and still couldn't detect him. He marks me, downs me, and even while I'm being carried, I STILL COULDN'T DETECT HIM. His detection was that broken.'
That sounds like a awful case, the bugs might be fixed. Though we obviously have different experiences since I'm always detected even when I hide into cover. Or in the cases I am stealthed and I pick someone up, I get revealed. It might just be a problem on your end. I dunno.
'Thirdly, I don't use controllers -- I use mouse and keyboard. I still couldn't detect him. So how was people who do use controllers supposed to detect them? Players shouldn't be "well, I guess you're [BAD WORD]" just because they want to use a controller.'
I use a controller. I've detected Ghost Face as easily as I get detected. More or less.
'Him using add-ons to make his detection radius only 8 meters is not "wasting" add-ons. It'd be like there being an add-on for Myers to be able to stalk and gain Evil through walls, removing the counterplay to his power. I don't see that as much of a "waste", nor very engaging to play against.'
I don't mean 'waste' in a traditional sense. I meant it in the same way people say killers waste a perk slot for this or that thing. Either way, that's less add ons on say, increasing marking duration or power recovery.
'And finally, he could stalk already marked survivors, even when they were already marked, thus leaving them exposed indefinitely until he downs the target. Combines this with only 1 second of needing to stalk someone, and you're basically going down in one hit and there's absolutely zero counterplay you could have done against it. Was better to just stay injured because healing was a complete waste of time.'
I'm pretty sure they fixed that. I'm gonna see if I can test that later, but I'm sure it was already changed. Also, there is a counterplay. Several.
Loops and awareness. I have a friend who can run a tier 3 Myers for a few minutes. If Myers can get looped for all of his Tier three, Ghost Face can also be looped.
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'i can’t see where you aren’t coming from. They definitely don’t feel like the same killer anymore because they aren’t relying on their power for downs anymore. And their power now isn’t essentially just BBQ that injures.'
I think what you meant by that first sentence is you can't see where I am coming from, I just wanted to make sure on that. I never wanted a killer who required their power to down, at least in Legion's case, but a power that was useful. The power isn't super useful, not because it doesn't give information, but because you can't act on it.
'their add ons are significantly weaker now. Why they didnt give movespeed and no vault speed add ons but did give us “increased feral frenzy detection range” I will never understand.'
Unfortunately that's because they wanted to make sure the Legion was nerfed enough to calm down the people complaining.
'there are definitely buffs that the currently legion NEEDS. Removing the penalty from hitting a survivor with your m1 isn’t an example I throw out often. Why that’s even there isn’t beyond me.'
It never needed to be there in the first place. But it's an example of the devs adding too much intended structural weakness for little to no reason.
'making the button add ons worth using. Hell, make their purple add ons worth using'
I doubt they'd do that. 'Legion is in a fine place' and all that nonsense.
'give legion some reward for hitting multiples survivors with FF (like maybe reduced fatigue?) and give a reason to hit a survivor with ff while injured and/or deep wounds.'
You wanna try to convince the devs to do this? Go do it yourself, please. I'm tired of trying.
'My arguments was not if legion was More fun or if the change to them was healthier to the game. My argument was simply that legion is better now than they were.'
Fun is the whole basis of why the Legion exists and why they were changed. Even if not your intended argument, it's still a factor. No matter how small. Again, Legion IS in a slightly better place. Unfortunately they are also not in a good place for the higher ranks.
'a 110 killer who guarantees an injured state but has the option to hit a survivor 4 times at 125 is worse than a 115 killer who can do the same without the option to hit a survivor 4 times.'
Assuming that you ever played like that. I didn't.
'I dont believe legion is in a good place overall, but they’re in a better place than they were'
Me and a lot of Legion mains agree with you. And we all just want to have Legion be made better. Into something that can actually break the meta.
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God Pallets are those ultra safe pallets that killers generally cannot avoid.
To say it's wasting a pallet means that the pallet was used when it didn't have to be used. Yeah, I don't really get it either.
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...?
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@Sairek While I don't disagree with you persay, I do have questions/problems with your post.
'You mean fixing the fact that he can literally stalk you faster than you can reveal him?'
That depends, when stalking from cover, then he does get the stalk faster then it's possible to stalk faster then you're revealed. However, it isn't and wasn't long before survivors figured out they can hide from you like Myers.
'Or the fact that you can stare at him even while he's carrying you but the detection is bugged that he still won't be revealed?'
Really? I've always been detected when picking up a downed survivor while in Night Shroud. But more to the point, WHY is that important? By that point the person is down, why would he even use Night Shroud?
'Or the fact that some of his add-ons make it so you have to be within 8 meters of him to even begin revealing him?'
He's wasting add ons to help prevent the reveal mechanic from screwing him over, when he could have been using anything else. It's the same as every other player in the game. Using perks/add ons to help aid in a different play style/boost stealth capabilities.
'Or the fact the detection radius is so pin-point, that anybody who plays on a controller is basically effed?'
I've revealed many a Ghost Face. Just because you use controllers does not mean it's done and out.
'Or the fact that he can permanently expose you because why not?'
What, when, where?
'I'm not disagreeing that some of the changes won't make him weaker, but a killer shouldn't be strong because they are buggy and/or cheesy.'
Those same bugs mess up more killers then not. I know me writing that doesn't make what Ghost Face has is okay, but Ghost Face should be strong in my honest opinion, even without bugs.
'Ghost Face shouldn't be strong because the game thinks I'm not looking at him when even with a cross-hair for reference, I can be looking directly at him in the dead center of my screen with his entire body revealed not even 16 meters away and "nope".'
Yeah, I faced it too. That is a bug I will agree needs fixing, however this will really make a mockery of Ghost Face.
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@jeyers said:
So we should punish survivors and have them lose 25 % of their perk slots just because NOED exists ? lol.
Just remove the perk allready, its broken and has no place in the game.
@jeyers "I can't come up with a compelling argument so I'll just say the same thing as before, lol."
I didn't want to do that, but Iam so god damn tired of your 'arguments'. We've given you counters, we've given you tools. But you're way too stubborn to listen. Don't know why we bothered.
(Btw, use the map items if you don't want to lose a oh so precious perk slot.)
(I'm also waiting for the downvotes to sustain me)
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'While I agree with you that the legions add ons are pretty trash and need to be reworked, and I am indifferent about being able to see blood in FF, i disagree with the notion that legion was nerfed.'
The blood thing is more or less optional. But I miss being able to see it, and it won't change much, Feral Frenzy is non-lethal and Deep Wounds literally doesn't do anything. Legion was heavily nerfed, since the power makes the killer, and the power was nerfed.
'unless you count legion’s entire identity as using franks mixed tape with cold dirt/stab wounds study. Then yes, legion was in fact nerfed.'
No I do not, I've rarely used FMT at all back then. Cold Dirt is a amazing add on. Till it as well was nerfed.
"the devs did point out, however, that legion started securing more kills with their rework. Which makes sense, since legion was literally one of the the worst killers in the game without those adds ons."
I can secure a 4k with Trapper at rank 1. Your point?
Alright, let me actually answer the question. Just because they are now securing more kills, it doesn't mean they are fun, for me at least. I know fun is subjective, but it's not like anyone who complained about Legion actually play Legion. And that's my problem, the people who actually care and love the Legion were punished for the complaints of others. If I wanted to play a standard killer, I should'vestuck with the Trapper, at least the pay off could be better.
"are they the strongest killer in the game? No. They are much better, overall, than they were though. At least without having massive variances in how good they are based entirely on what add-ons you are running."
I'm not saying the Legion is now healthier for the game. I know they are. My problem is they over nerfed them and gave little to nothing is return. All I want is for Feral Frenzy to be made great again, I'm not asking for Deep Wounds to do what it had before. I don't want the exploits back. But I want to actually feel like the Legion is a speedy boi, now they don't feel fast. They feel, mundane.
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"well what i meant original addons were fine so thats why i called fix, not buff"
Even then the add ons were mediocre.
"ability speed should cost those same addons before ... also with those rollbacked addons still have to slower stats than before"
I have no idea what you mean here. Sorry.
"and no vaulting buff needs for them"
Yes, they do need a vaulting buff, especially with how the nerf wasn't needed.
"cause current legion already have speed of bloodrust3"
Where are you getting that? Bloodlust 3, if I recall, is faster then current Feral Frenzy.
"its unavoidable getting hit without chain any sort of defence option"
360. If I can do it, you can.
"if they have faster both movements its more than easy its free hit"
I don't like when people say 'free hits'. It's the same as saying you get free gens cause of toolboxes. (Okay not really but I hope you get the point.)
"than survivors think pallets and windows useless when they healthy"
Pallets and windows are the safest bet for a Legion who is almost finished with Feral Frenzy/attacks early.
'and legion is not slow killer now normal speed wm1 after that'
The Trapper is 115% ms, and can trap windows and pallets, yet he doesn't do so well does he?
"legion have low profile and gives survivors blurry screen"
The lower camera can also screw up the Legion, especially in corn. Also I don't know what you mean by blurry screen? If you're talking about the Deep Wound blood effects, that's nothing compared to the Clown.
'still thats not make me play legion,cause doing wm1 in asia consider as crazy'
Then why bother talking about a killer you know little about?
'well thats fate of wm1 cause low rank people get easy roadkill by wm1'
Low ranks, not high ranks.
'and i said reduce afterdelay only for hitting deep wounded survivors again'
What?
'its can't consider as buffing its fixing cause legion can cancel or whiff it to choose'
Let me reiterate, what?
'not give backprint boost chasing survivor but does that gives boost survivor only'
I do not understand.
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@NMCKE Oh, I always knew. But there are brain dead people who don't value these things.
Amanda must punish them, and teach them the error of their ways.
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BHVR didn't even touch these things. How the hell is it bugged?
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"If you're missing the hits, that's an issue with you, not the character or the game."
It could also be that you as the killer or even the survivor is lagging. There are times where I should have hit, but the survivor lagged to the left. Some survivors also know how to trick the hit, causing the attack from the killer to miss.
No. He was not even close to fine."
Yes they were.
"There was absolutely no counter for a super fast killer that could vault pallets and stab like crazy with no consequences."
Tell that to Billy, who is faster and has a instadown. Legion can get fast, sure, but their attacks don't actually hurt you as badly. Also run around outside (or inside) and swing a knife around, notice how you don't get a heart attack?
Also you have to wait for the full bar to recover now. Unnecessary as hell.
"And then when they were feeling really cheesy, could break line of sight to make your mend timer go down WHILE STILL CHASING YOU."
That is the player'sfault, not the killer. I agree, that is bull[Bad Word], but as you said, the fault of a player, not the character. It however, is the fault of the game for allowing it.
"So you either keep running and bleed out, or you stop to mend and get hit. Nothing was fine about that."
There were several ways to save yourself or have someone else save you. It wasn't okay, but it didn't mean your fate was set in stone.
"Legion is fine. Stop whining."
They are a basic killer now. Their power is a hindrance. They might be healthier for the game, but they aren't fun.
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@Emeal They always played like that. Difference was before you had options.
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@Ihatelife said:
I like this Legion changes. But I feel Legion should have at least 5.5m/s speed in Frenzy + should get back the addons that increased the movement speed in FF, pre-nerf vaults speed. The worst part about his power is that Feral Frenzy doesn't make any threat to the injured survivors. It should be changed but I don't idea how.
The Legion changes were needed, there was no doubt. But just because they are effective, that doesn't mean they are fun. Trapper is a fine example of this, the power is the least effective, yet you can 4k.
That doesn't make playing Trapper fun.
Anyways, I don't think DWs should outright harm survivors, but yes it should be dangerous. Maybe allow perks to affect it, like Nurse's calling.
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Which is why I have it as optional. If that first one can't do it, then the second one has to be used. It's one or the other.
But you are right, there has to be something to balance it. The problem is, BHVR has this odd tendency to get it wrong, and make changes obsolete.
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It works best if you knock someone down while you are in Night Shroud or benefiting from a smaller terror radius.
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@Peanits I'll need your opinion too, if you can give it.
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Nnnnnnooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
(Give me more downvotes. I needs it)
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@prettyf Forgot to quote you in above post, so here is my response to your third reply as well.
"long story for short"
I'm listening.
"1they should rollback useless killers instinct addons to ability speed addons"
That's what we all unanimously said, but they want to keep Legion mid tier.
"2no reduce of ability meter with normal hits"
Good luck.
"3second hitting same survivor with ability reduce killer's stun, why hit survivor twice only gives you penalty,now cancel it is much better option cause boost survivor but stun you same time.. also its not cool"
But, but, they are good where they are, right? They shouldn't be moved above mid tier, right?
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"both at middle tier and doesn't need more than fixing
both characters most easy to play they shouldn't have high tier."
Soooo, you want more Nurse, Spirit, and Billys? Not having other strong characters does that. They both are no easy to play, not in the red ranks.
"what you wrote about legion seems similar with me"
Don't know what you are talking about.
"but if they buff legions action speeds about pallets and window vault its too easy to land ability hit"
How so? With how screwed up a lot of things are, you could miss, and that can cost you the game.
"even its the only legion can do still legion have no downsides after that now it have 115% and low profile"
...? What?
"i think meter regression from normal hit should fix first"
Have fun convincing Behavior. It's your line of thinking that caused this sort of thing in the first place.
"they should make it bonus to meter, not regression of meter"
Again, have fun with the convincing.
"if you hit someone you can't nothing about that survivor with ability"
Mmhm.
"why it have to regress"
Because BHVR followed your line of thought, wanting to keep Legion in a laughable spot by not buffing them, but keeping them in, and I quote from you "both at middle tier and doesn't need more than fixing".
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@ATerribleBilly Ah. A shame it won't ever be implemented.
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@ATerribleBilly You mean you like them (Legion) as is? Or what I suggested?
Ghost Face just needs a little more 'UMPHF!' But I agree.
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Guys, please refer to the post at the top of this page. It has the perfect counter and is easy to get.
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@AshleyWB Fair enough.
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@ShrekIsHot jokes ruined. I can't even look at it.
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@AshleyWB It wasn't even a rework. A rework proposes the idea that something is changed fundamentally. What the Legion got was a Crucifixion disguised as a fix.
The Freddy rework can legitimately be called a rework as his whole fundamental gameplay was changed.
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@Peasant D A R N
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@Peasant You ruined the joke. Nooooooooooooooooooo
-falls down to hell-
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@fluffymareep FBI OPEN UP!
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Anyone going to Saw Con this year? 😞
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It's either that post you have, or my overhaul idea. It's complicated, but I believe it'd be more lore friendly.
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DbD Dev: Wow, you raise some good points, it wasn't insulting and people agree with you. We really see the error of our ways annnnnnd no we won't listen to you. Have fun with the nerfs!
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@michaelrandom27 said:
Every time survivors make a legitimate complaint about overpowered killers, the response is always "git gud." Real original, guys.
Works both ways @michaelrandom27, I've seen many legitimate Killer posts talking about how survivors are overpowered.
And then they get 'Git Gud'. Both sides need to sack up. Honestly.
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What's that?! I can't hear you over the sound of the airplanes coming from my clothes!