Seraphor
Seraphor
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- Seraphor
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Odd how only Mangled is mentioned and not Haemorrhage, despite most people having an issue with the latter.
Hoping that's because they've realised they're only useful together, are buffing/reworking Mangled and deleting Haemorrhage.
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Some of the best killer perk concepts in a long time. A little undertuned.
Two can Play: Taking 2 stuns to charge AND being a Hex is a little too much cost for the effect it gives. One stun to charge would be fine.
Friends till the End: Would be a great perk if the Exposed lasted long enough to make use of. I don't think I could even capitalise on 20 seconds with Dredge, let alone a non-mobility killer. Should be 30 seconds.
Batteries Included: PTB version was fine, it was a decent endgame perk with gradual build up, kinda like a killers version of Sole Survivor. Now it's just a poorly designed perk, that works where you don't need it. Now it's the killer equivalent of Dark Theory.
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@xEa said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3594534#Comment_3594534
To put this simple: 10% is a lot. It does not sound much, but in any semi-competetive game, 10% more winrate is considered broken.
So your argument, that the killer should have this advantage might make sense because it is a horror game, killer should be a threat) ect ect but it does not. The game is so extremly unballanced between solo and SWF, that it is pointless to even aim for anything higher then a 50/50, and this can only be realisticly achieved by giving solo players a tremendous buff.
10% is absolutely not a lot.
It is less than the difference between an extra kill/escape. To feel 10%, you would need to play at least three games, and instead of an average of three 2Ks, it would be two 2Ks and one 3K.
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- Get every character to P7 for the additional cosmetic rewards (7x the grind!)
- Start going for P100s (infinite grind!)
Why not do this while also earning new perks?
- Self-imposed challenges/goals.
Earning new perks can be a self-imposed challenge. "I don't need Quentin's perks, but I'm going to grind him anyway."
Why isn't "unlocking all perks on my main" a viable self-imposed challenge?
This is precisely how I've played.
Why must all perks be handed to you?
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This is called Daily Rituals
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You would have to absolutely destroy every other TR related perk to do this, so no.
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You're asking them to essentially slash the BP economy by 66%. That might seem like a ridiculous argument to some "BP economy what?" but it's a pretty important part of live game design and player retention. What are people going to do when they've unlocked everything? Probably play less, or at least not care about BP very much, despite BP being the only tangible incentive in the game.
Frankly "every character to P1 and main to P4" is nothing. Yes I've been playing for a few years now, late 2019er, and the 2022 prestige system change reset quite a bit so you could count from there really (and that reduced the grind already) but I've got at least P3 on everyone, up to P9 on a good number, about a third, and around P30 on my few 'mains', across both roles. Most of that was since the new prestige system. If I can get that in less than 18 months, then "every character to P1 and main to P4" won't take very long.
Plus you don't need every perk on your main. There are going to be characters whose perks you don't want or at least don't need just yet, and can work on picking up at a later date. Plus there's the shrine. There are several characters whose perks I unlocked from the shrine so never bothered buying. That's a load of BP saved there.
66% reduction in grind is too much. I'd rather see survivor bloodpoint scores reworked to bring them up to killer levels.
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Use turrets to deny the killer their power.
That's what they exist for. Xeno should have a powerful, intimidating attack, because they also have a built in counter.
If Xeno's tail attack is nerfed to the point where is worse than Nemesis' tentacle, then why do turrets even exist?
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@MikaelaWantsYourBoon said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3593684#Comment_3593684
I am sorry if he feels terrible on console but they can't buff killers for console players. They can get some QoL changes for sure but Xeno needs good cooldown after missed tail hit. His missing cooldown can't be short because he is always on power and don't need to hold power like other m2 killers.
PC players miss much few tail attacks than console players, which means the nerf is affecting console players more than PC players.
Lets say PC players hit 90% of tail attacks, while console players hit 50%. This "nerf" is barely affecting PC players, because they only feel it when they miss. Essentially, they've already discriminated, because this is in effect a 10% nerf to PC players, and a 50% nerf to console player. Imagine if other nerfs worked this way, imagine if Ruin was nerfed to 100%, but if you play on console you get a special version that's nerfed to 50%. Imagine if PC players were still able to selfcare with CoH, and it was only disabled for console players.
But I agree with the larger point, that the killer should be viable on both PC and console anyway. A rework was in order, that makes the tail attack easier to hit across the board, because PC players aren't missing them anyway.
I was the BIGGEST Alien fan. Xenomorph was always my dream DBD killer. I barely play it because it's insufferable.
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The nerf to the tail attack on Xeno was anything but minor for console players.
Aiming with that tail is very tricky on console, you will miss most of your shots, and now those missed shots cost you even more time. Meanwhile PC players miss a tiny fraction of shots, and dodging a tail attack from a PC Xeno is more reflective of survivor skill.
With the nerf, it's not worth going for a tail attack on Xeno. I play it as an M1 killer with a limited teleport/stealth power. Not least because, with aiming being so finicky on console, I can't hit turrets reliably anyway, so I'm out of my power 50% of the time regardless.
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I like stealth killers, and I'm really excited about the third person killer mode. So even if he gets nerfed I'll probably buy him pretty soon.
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It would be quite a mess if different boon perks had different ranges. It would be difficult for survivors to understand what's going on, let alone killers.
Having one radius, one blue circular line which you cross or don't, is fairly important to the function of the perks.
But with CoH being nerfed, all Boon perks are now on a similar level, they're all relatively weak. That calls for a buff to Boons across the board, and range is as good of a shared metric to target as any.
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This is what happens when survivors have high ping. It's not a purely killer phenomenon.
How do you know they're PS5?
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Is having a good headset cheating? Because that's what the visual heartbeat emulates. It kicks in when the faintest of TR can be heard, which might not be audible for most, but it is there.
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A 'draw' is when neither side wins or loses. It's a condition that requires symmetry and does not apply to an asymmetrical game. As I said before, the idea that a 2K = Draw is a fallacy, an illusion induced by the fact that there's an even number of survivors. If this game was set up at 3 survivors against 1 killer, you couldn't define a 'draw'.
The killer isn't 'drawing' with a 2K, the killer is merely completing half of their objective. Meanwhile 2 survivors win and 2 survivors lose. Completely different paradigm.
Considering the game doesn't have a defined win condition for the killer outside of a 4K, the question is 'does completing half of your objective feel the same as drawing?' Which is just as subjective as 'does completing 75% of your objective feel like winning?'
And personally, no. A 2K is only possible when the survivors complete their objective and open the exit gates. That doesn't feel like a win in most cases, particularly when the remaining 2 survivors are teabagging at the exit gate.
Does it feel like winning for survivors when you repair 4/5 gens? Does it feel like a 'draw' when you repair 2.5 gens but still die? That's half your objective.
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@katoptris said:
If it like any other game it should let you upgrade for free to ps5 version. I'm pretty sure you will unlocked all dlcs going up to the silent hill chapter.
Should be correct.
Buy PS4 version, free upgrade to PS5. You may need to reactivate any DLC licenses you bought for the PS4 version (like the silent hill one), but that's free.
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@OrangeBear said:
Wasn't that already the case last year?
That's what I thought. Pretty sure jumping in a snowman makes you Undetectable.
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Try it.
Play Demo and do this, let me know how it goes.
If you spend all your time monitoring your portals and interrupting gens, you won't be able to keep up with the survivors who pre-run every time you teleport/return to the gen, and the gens get done eventually. If you break away and commit to chases to score hooks, you're not monitoring your gens/portals and the gens get done.
This only works if you also play well, and cut chases short, scoring downs quick enough to still maintain pressure on gens. Playing a killer well, against survivors who play poorly, should obviously result in a favourable outcome for the killer.
If this was actually the problem you're saying it is, Demo would have been Chess Merchant long, long before. But instead Demo is widely regarded as one of the most balance killers in the game. 🤷♂️
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With one breath, BHVR can make the best, most ingenious balance change, and also the most unfathomably bewildering balance change. This is nothing new. So there's no faith to lose.
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Nah, I don't enjoy tunneling. Any wins that come from tunneling inevitably feel cheap and usually result in fewer BP than if I try to 2-hook everyone.
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@Annso_x said:
Protagonists:
The OG4 as mains characters for sure, maybe Haddie, Elodie & Felix as side characters for their lore implications. Observer probably should make an appearance at some point.
Antagonists:
Trapper as the killer we see in the first trial that introduces everything. Blight is the big bad guy as he is the entity's servant. Entity is omnipresent but not a character per say.
What happens:
- First kill: Dwight of course. First trial's victim
- Second Kill: Haddie before she can help too much
- Third kill: Observer, maybe he's already gone when protagonists find him
- Jake, Claudette, Elodie and Felix die at some point (Felix is killed by Blight).
- Final girl: Meg. Elodie is also last girl material but unfortunately she's not a main character..
I like this, but I would have each kill performed by a different killer in a different 'trial', with maybe the last two killers scoring 2 each. Or something along those lines.
So like, first trial, Trapper kills Dwight. Then Wraith kills Haddie. (Blight kills Observer, offscreen or not) Huntress kills Jake. Nurse kills Claudette, and Elodie. Then Blight kills Felix.
I'd also say you could swap Meg and Claudette, or even Jake and Felix, either way works fine though.
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@RpTheHotrod said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3591832#Comment_3591832
A draw is still a loss. They didn't win.
That's the thing, survivors don't have a 'draw' condition, for survivors it's just win or lose. The 2K=Draw thing is what throws it off, and if there were a way to have an objectively defined win condition for the killer, it probably should be 0-2K = lose, 3-4K = win.
It's an asymmetrical game, there isn't actually a way to divide the results down the middle 50/50. There aren't an even number of players, there are FIVE players per game, and FIVE different results.
For example, a 3K game has 2 winners and 3 losers, one winner on each side, so that's technically a 40% win rate among both roles. But it's a 75% kill rate. This is why Kill rate does not equate to Win rate.
It can be difficult to see this because the even number of survivors gives the illusion of symmetry, but it's easier to explain if you use a thought experiment where there's an uneven number of survivors. If each game had 3 survivors v 1 killer, what would be the draw condition? Technically a 1K would result in a 50% win rate, so would a 1K be a draw? 1 out of 3 survivors killed doesn't seem like a success for the killer. Meanwhile a 2K would also be a 50% win rate, one killer and one survivor, one win each, so draw? but 2/3 survivors killed doesn't seem like a success for the survivor team.
A 2K is 50% of the killers main objective, but it also means they've failed their other objective which is to prevent the opening of the exit gates, for which survivors have completed their objective, they have to to get more than one escape. So there is no way you can objectively say that a 2K is a 'draw', it just 'sounds right' because 2 is half of 4.
All of this is why there is no correct way to determine what a balanced kill rate should be. At most you can say it should be somewhere between 50% and 75%, and then pushing that closer to the 50% makes it 'sound fair', but doesn't necessarily translate to a healthy place for the game to be in if you want both sides to feel like the have both a challenge and a fair chance. Somewhere around 60% seems to be where that place is.
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You can't be the final girl if no one else dies.
Every game should be a 3K for thematic consistency.
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Batteries Included was looking to be a pretty decent Endgame perk.
Now it's just a terrible perk that works against the killer.
It's the killer version of Dark Theory.
Why are haste perks always so awful? Rapid Brutality did the same thing. Short conditional haste effect that rewards M1 killers over M2 killers, great! Totally disables Bloodlust. It's like an anti tunnelling perk that makes survivors start on death hook.
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It should be "4k or prevent the exit gates from being powered". This accounts for a 4K or a 3K + Hatch.
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I don't think this is an avenue they want to go down, as it limits player freedom.
Everyone gets the same four perk slots, four chances to improve their abilities. If someone wants to go all in on one aspect, then they're missing out on the rest. It also self-corrects for this, the only issue if whether or not individual perks are properly balanced.
Preventing this would be the end of things like Endgame builds, Healing builds, chase builds, gen-jockey builds, etc. And instead we'd end up with an even more restrictive met where everyone plays the best Exhaustion, best Healing, best anti-tunnel, and best repair perk, every single game.
A killer playing 4 aura perks is a killer playing no endgame, no chase, and no regression perks. Not to mention all of the perk synergy, such as Lethal Pursuer and it's effect on increasing the duration of other aura effects.
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I don't know that Window's as it functions really provides the opportunity for a fair nerf. But I don't think it's the harmless perk many seem to believe it is.
What I find, is that once a survivor learns how to run a tile (a fairly low skill floor, but not ground level), Windows leads to the most boring, most dragged out chases imaginable. Wrote, formulaic pathing, that takes you around to every single pallet and window on the map, exhausting their use, until you either give up or lose 5 gens. It might not be as obviously impactful as old DH, but it's not far off being just as uncounterable. Windows turns half-decent survivors, into bots. I'm not great in chase as a survivor myself, but when I run Windows, I can run the killer for entire gens-worth of repair time.
The problem is that nerfing Windows in any significant way, not only lessens this impact, but also robs less-skilled survivors of a very useful crutch perk, which can help them learn the game without feeling so lost and confused. So while it's somewhat problematic, Windows is also very useful, very healthy, for the lower end of the MMR scale. The fact that it has such impactful use at all levels of skill is the reason why it's the number one chosen perk.
It's catch-22, where the benefits of the perk are obvious and necessary, but the downsides of the perk are hard to see unless you're feeling the full force of it yourself.
The only nerf I could see that would really be half-way fair, is if stunning the killer puts the perk on cooldown for say... 20 seconds. It would take skill to score a pallet stun and incur the cooldown, and more skill again to plan for such a scenario and memorise the nearby loops for when you lose sight of them. Meanwhile the lesser-skilled survivors are likely to pre-drop and retain their info. But... it's still not likely to really impact the highest level survivors, who will still be able to make full use of it. So really this nerf would impact the mid-to-high-skill survivors the most, leaving the extreme ends relatively untouched.
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Crosshairs should be a built in feature at this point, to close the gap between PC and console.
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They are. Nearly all killer abilities have some form of cooldown relative to their effectiveness.
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@UndeddJester said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3590596#Comment_3590596
True, I just felt a comparable change specifically targetting these annoying scenarios would be better received than a nerf though 😅
I don't really have issue with the speed, just knowing the bar is ticking down while I'm literally waiting for the prompt saying "heal plz... Heal Plz... HEAL PLZ!".
Does Haemorrhage need a speed nerf would you say? 🤔
A speed nerf like I mentioned above could make it less oppressive against the likes of Resurgence/Solidarity, giving you more chance to interrupt the health drain. But it would still waste medkits just as effectively.
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Hawkins has fewer viable turret locations, but from my experience so far (3 games against Xeno on Hawkins) the places you can place turrets are actually very useful choke points. It may actually be better to be as restrictive as it is, so that your team mates aren't putting turrets in useless spots.
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It doesn't even need to be that fast. The point if Haemorrhage is to slow down/roll back healing, and waste medkit charges.
It could still do this even if it was -4%/s, for 100% in 25 seconds.
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Being on the other sideof a window doesn't make you invulnerable. The killers weapon hitbox can reach through windows.
While ping likely is an issue here anyway, it seems people grossly underestimate just how far they should be away from the window without getting hit in the first place.
In the picture above, there is less than a foot between the survivors hitbox and the killers weapon swing.
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@Cecaelia said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3590133#Comment_3590133
There is no such thing as a "pro" dbd player, for one.
Two. You are matched with people of similiar MMR if they deserve to be at that mmr or not, with me just explaining on how mmr is not an indicator of skill since walking out the exit gate, especially with killers giving it to the last survivor (often times the person that has been hiding in a corner doing nothing) is even more egregious.
Three, the corrective behavior of people hiding and doing nothing the entire time but being rewarded for it? Working as intended I suppose?
We aren't going to see eye to eye - so this is my last response to you.
Three, the corrective behavior of people hiding and doing nothing the entire time but being rewarded for it? Working as intended I suppose?
Yes, because they're not being rewarded. They're being matched with opponents more capable of killing them, to correct for their tactics.
People who escape by hiding all game don't deserve to be in low MMR where they would get easier games. They deserve for the game to recognise that they're finding it too easy to escape, qnd make it more difficult for them to escape, regardless of how they escape.
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@Cecaelia said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3590131#Comment_3590131
MMR is a reward because you get to go against better players and byproxy get better teammates. That's a reward.
MMR is a corrective system that aims to pit players against other players that have a similar chance of winning. It exists purely to seperate newbies from pros.
It's not designed to be a stand in for a ranking system.
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@Cecaelia said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3589666#Comment_3589666
Or another thought - just remove the MMR system and go back to the BP system.
If you walk through the exit gates is not an indicator if you are good or not.
What about the guy that ran the killer for all five gens but died? He's the reason why the exit gates could even be powered but he doesn't gain MMR because he died? What about the person that did all five gens but died while your team is doing totems, chests, sitting in a corner, or just going down repeatedly? Suddenly you don't deserve MMR because you died even though you are the reason why the exit gates are powered in the first place? What about people that do a combo of the two - running the killer and doing 3 gens but they get hooked once and die? Do they suddenly not deserve MMR?
MMR just rewards a braindead playstyle of people sitting in the corner, doing totems, doing portals, hiding in lockers until the exit gates are powered so they can walk out the door. I play as a solo survivor and I cannot tell you how many times I have been in a match and for 8+ minutes the icons on my teammates (showing where they are doing stuff) does not change at all, but they walk out the door. The BP system was better because only the people that actually did stuff (gens, ran the killer, saved people) would rank up and therefore the playstyle of sitting in a corner and doing nothing all game but walking out the doors would not make you rank up - you would have depip or safety'd at mid ranks or depipped at red.
TLDR: Your mmr system rewards a braindead playstyle and punishes the people interacting with the game.
deserve MMR?
MMR just rewards
MMR is not a reward system, that's why it's hidden.
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I like it. I feel chase-oriented exhaustion concept have been, well exhausted at this point. This is a neat way to include exhaustion for another purpose, for non-chase builds.
And it has two distinct uses. First to literally 'split up on gens', and secondly, if a survivor kites the killer to the gen you're working on, then you get a quick escape.
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This would be an incredible anti-tunnel perk. It would be a pretty strong perk though so would have to have suitable restrictions. For example, only once per game, and after you've used it to take a hookstate for someone, no one can then use it on you to take one from you. This would mean it could only be used a maximum of twice per game, Survivor A takes a hook off Survivor B, Survivor C takes a hook off Survivor D, that's it.
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It sort of does.
It doesn't decay, but it becomes more volatile. Essentially after an extended break, your MMR will change more than if you were playing every day. So your first lost game will drop your MMR by a lot more.
It gives the benefit of the doubt to the player not being rusty, but corrects for the eventually that they are.
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My favourite Leon top is Chris Redfield.
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@lucidlux said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3589708#Comment_3589708
That is drinking the kool-aid, survivors who escape but contribute nothing to their team and did everything possible to avoid interaction with the killer should not be going against tougher opponents while the teammates who run the killer for half the game or actually do objectives face a weaker killer because of the inability to create a good ranking system.
Survivor MMR should be based off some combo of the emblems/pips gained and hours played, someone who scores 12k pts in a game with 7k of that being for an escape does not deserve a bump in their MMR while their teammate who has a score of 24k loses mmr because they died but did everything they could to help the team escape.
As a killer I don't want those players in my matches, they are the ones who get downed after a 15 second chase and give up because the killer is too hard for them when they actually have to play the game. They never got the chance to learn to play the game because somehow that Bill with 2 perks and 30 hours is matched against people with 2k+ hours.
On the survivor side it causes frustration for players when they have those players on their team, if we are 2 minutes into the game without corrupt and I can see I have teammates who haven't touched a gen I"ll go throw myself at the killer, and try to get a good chase in and then kill myself on hook and move onto the next game. Not good for anyone in the match, but I have 2.6k hours in the game, 99% of the time I shouldn't have those players in my matches with a quality rating system.
If they're the players who go down easily and give up on hook, then they won't have high MMR will they? You're not thinking this through.
You're not thinking about what's good for the game, you're only thinking about what's good for you, which is evident by your attitude to giving up when you deem your teammates to be beneath you.
You may not want these types of survivors in your prestige 1% comp level games, but lower skilled survivors don't deserve to have them either. At higher MMR, their chances of succeeding with their one-dimensional strategy decreases, meaning they won't be as good at escaping this way. If they never gained MMR, they'd be stuck in low MMR, winning every single game, never actually learning how to play.
Judging by the language you use, you treat MMR as a prize to be earned by those worthy of it. It's not, it's a corrective force, that's why it's hidden.
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@canu said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3589701#Comment_3589701
idk where you are going with this
if i really wanted to i can just bring hatch offerings and hide for 5 gens and sit next to shack and i will escape 60 out of 100 games
That suggests you're good at escaping, which you can argue is a skill, but regardless of how you escape, you escaped.
If you escape more games than you don't, you're good at escaping. Therefore you should be going against tougher opponents so that your chance of escaping is reduced.
MMR isn't a measure of skill, it's a measure of 'likeliness to win', which can be an estimate of skill, but can also be reflective of attitude, whethr you're 'sweaty', or employ cheese tactics, or run only meta builds, or conversely if you let the other side win. This is much more useful for matchmaking than just straight up "skill", because as you rightly deduced, you can just bring a hatch offering and camp the hatch. It wouldn't exactly be fair if you could escape higher MMR by cheesing the game like that.
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@canu said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3589666#Comment_3589666
could you guys at least start changing the way survivors gain mmr? i think everyone can agree that just because you escape doesn't necessarily mean you are skilled as a player
mmr shouldn't increase purely based on escapes only
Escaping once doesn't mean you played well in that game.
Escaping 60 out of 100 games does suggest you're a skilled survivor.
MMR is about averages.
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There are dozens of viable survivor perks. Don't be a meta slave.
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@Devil_hit11 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3589630#Comment_3589630
no, most 3 gens is killer planning 3 gen and camping hooks from very start of the game. camping itself is play-style. a defensive play-style. the reason why it is strong is because survivor cannot control it. It is same reason why tunneling is strong. it is out of survivor control other than survivor who is being tunneled to loop the killer for 5 gens. you can't stop killer from 3 gens camping and hook camping. It is just that defensive play-style for killer is not that good because survivors have 4x as much progression as killer. the killer is not good at regressing generators, so if survivor knows how to counter 3 gens, they will outpace killer regression. in cases, where you do not outpace regression, than you get that 50 minute skull merchant type game problem if gen-kick perks are any good.
Not in my experience as someone who runs Deja Vu a lot as a solo survivor. Being aware of the 3 closest gens and watching as my team mates repair all the other ones first.
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@Nos37 said:
"Can help prevent a 3-gen" only applies if the killer doesn't stick to 3-gens from the start.
Until they "fix 3-gens," they should have buffed Potential Energy (the ACTUAL counter to 3-gens), not Deja Vu.
Most 3 gen scenario's are the survivors doing. Which is what Deja Vu prevents.
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@MikaelaWantsYourBoon said:
Because generators are the most boring part of the game. Gen perks are also boring.
So why wouldn't you want the most boring part of the game to be over faster?
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@MikaelaWantsYourBoon said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3589302#Comment_3589302
Road is still dead zone after these changes, it's big and no loops on it
There are 2 pallet loops. They might not be jungle gym strength but they're not deadzones.
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Why should survivors play fair?
You will get hit on hook if you do that. You think killers care you played nice? Nope, eat that Mr survivor! Haha noob ezi match.
And around and around we go.
You can't control other players, you are only responsible for your own actions. Be the change you want to see, break the cycle.
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I kinda agree with Scott, if only because I play similarly to him.
I like to play fair, go for 12 hooks, allow everyone to get a decent BP score, probably let one or more survivors escape depending on how the game goes. But I can't do this when I'm forced to play sweaty to not lose at zero hooks.
If I'm better than the survivors, I have the freedom to adjust my playstyle and generally me being better than survivors = great game for everyone. If survivors are better than me, either I walk away with a crap score, or we all do because a 'gen rush' situation occurs (naturally, not survivors 'fault').
But, that's such a fine line to walk, it's not practical to expect it every or even most games, and probably more importantly, not all killers will play this fair. In fact I'd say the majority don't.
So in theory Scott is right, in practice, probably not.