Seraphor
Seraphor
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- Seraphor
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*rants about Proxy Camping while actually pointing out all the problems with Tunnelling*
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Control Stations actually spawn on potential Chest spawn sites. Which are shared by Chests (ofc) and also Event objects. (Same goes for other killer objects like Jigsaw boxes and EMPs, although I think only Control Stations and TVs also have a 'closest to gen' claus in addition)
This is how Control Station locations can be manipulated by using Coin offerings.
More potential objects means more rng competition, so the sites closest to gens might not always be available.
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@Beatricks said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3611331#Comment_3611331
Right, I actually forgot to say this!
At first, I fully intended to keep track of dodging, but as you said, there was no way for me to know if anybody had dodged before I could see it, so I decided to just ignore it.
As far as I can remember, at least 3 or 4 times when more than 2 killers dodged, we got absolutely massacred and only one time was it either a draw or a win for us. Tiny sample size, but backfill seems to be a huge problem for SoloQ, giving higher MMR killers.
If backfills were such a small occurrence, that's actually fairly reassuring, that players aren't dodging quite so much any more. Which probably lines up with my more recent experience come to think of it.
Although just 1 dodge is enough to negate matchmaking, it needn't be 2 or more dodges in a single lobby.
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Interesting and kudos for the effort.
However one thing I find is always missing from these sort of things, is backfill.
You say you never dodged, but you don't say if (and half the time you can't tell so it's probably fair that you can't guess) you were ever backfilled into a lobby that effectively has NO matchmaking taking place.
There's no easy way to track this, but it's a limitation that is always going to skew these sort of stats. How many of the 'extreme' results actually fall outside of the SBMM system, rather than being symptomatic of it.
Admittedly this is probably a greater issue for Killers than it is for Survivors as their own matchmaking result isn't offset with any teammates. A backfilled killer is either a high MMR player getting an easy game or a low MMR killer getting stomped.
So you could for example track if any killers dodged your lobby and were replaced, as this could be the cause for many of your 0K results.
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@Aven_Fallen said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3611280#Comment_3611280
The Aura is not shown. I played against a few Killers who were using Plaything and not Pentimento, which was odd to me, until I read here that the Aura is bugged.
Because usually I play against Killers who use Plaything AND Pentimento, so "only Plaything" was quite surprising.
I see. Well I've never been a meta slave and run Plaything for the obliviousness.
I wonder if this applies to more than just Plaything though. I'm pretty sure I played a game yesterday where I was standing right next to a NOED totem with no aura.
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@plattenpanzer said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3611281#Comment_3611281
Not in my matches. Not once have I had a survivor blown up a generator or miss a healing skill check.
I'm very happy for you.
You should feel so proud.
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People miss skill checks all the time even with years of experience. Plus there's the likes of Unnerving Presence, Huntress Lullaby, Madness, etc.
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@Aven_Fallen said:
I mean, right now, because Plaything is bugged, I see quite a bunch of Killers running Plaything. Now would be the time to try this Achievement.
Plaything is bugged? How?
I've been running it lately and haven't noticed anything.
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You said it. "It feels like .."
That's called confirmation bias. You assume every coordinated team is a SWF because of the ones you confirm are SWF.
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It's essentially on demand I'm All Ears. You stalk for a second while chasing at a loop to get wallhacks and beat the mindgames.
It's not a particularly strong effect in comparison to other perks and add ons, but it has a use.
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@LordGlint said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3610802#Comment_3610802
Except it releases someone from a hook who would otherwise still be hooked, as well as activates any perk that results from an unhook, like deliverance. That's a big difference.
And depletes the survivors hook states by one, and leaves an injured survivor in close proximity. The killer is still at an advantage.
In every game where someone attempts a rescue in front of me and results in a trade, it's never been in the survivors favour.
Hook trades are a great way to burn through survivor hookstates, where you'd otherwise need to wait 60 seconds for them to hang there.
You're already winning. You don't need to win more, especially when it comes at the cost of having absurdly ridiculous hook dance standoffs in the game.
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@LordGlint said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3610793#Comment_3610793
I'm not saying hook trades should be a 2 hook. Hook trades were a thing with hook grabs in the game too. I'm saying a dumb play like the one linked SHOULD be punished. It a shouldn't be a setup for a deliverance play or anything.
Punish it with a hook trade then.
There's still no excuse for a ridiculous hook dance.
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@GeneralV said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3610781#Comment_3610781
Well, my friend, you can use it to punish a risky save.
A survivor should know when to save someone. If you went there while the killer was nearby, there has to be a risk.
Hook trades do all of this.
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@LordGlint said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3610781#Comment_3610781
Someone actually posted a link earlier of a 2 minute video with 2 back to back. You think THOSE grabs were unfair?
These could have been hook trades and it would still be "fair".
Again, the idea that a hook trade isn't in the killers favour, and should instead result in a double hook, is assinine.
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@Ayodam said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3610761#Comment_3610761
So you…
1.) Create a system where survivors see each other’s perks after a match starts but that doesn’t prevent survivors from running duplicate perks. At best it stops a survivor from attempting to heal another survivor who has, say, resilience. Even though that survivor with resilience can currently interrupt or prevent that heal.
2-3.) Invariably nerf another survivor perk; Kindred.
3.) Create a nuisance feature that can be spammed to harass or irritate other players.
These are some issues I see just from like a casual glance. One can literally mitigate their gripes with solo queue by joining a SWF. BHVR is pushing survivors in that direction for good reason.
1. What does duplicate perks have to do with anything? Penalising SWF is not the answer.
This is not limited to Resilience. Knowing the loadout of your team is vital information and this is not a new idea. There is nothing controversial here, you're either being contrarian or ignorant.
2. Sure, Kindred would be nerfed in the same way BT was "nerfed" when it was made basekit. That is not an argument against this idea.
3. This falls entirely within the realm 'execution'. There's no reason it has to be a nuisance.
Nobody should be forced to join a SWF to make the game bearable for them.
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@LordGlint said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3610757#Comment_3610757
Then the survivor has room to do an unhook without the killer being at close enough range to grab them.
Youve never proxy camped or been proxy camped then.
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@Ayodam said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3610745#Comment_3610745
What drawbacks do you see with your suggestions?
Zero.
You can show perks after the game begins to prevent lobby dodging.
"Survival Instinct" would have no downsides.
And emotes can be ignored, certainly no more prone to abuse than teabags.
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@LordGlint said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3610749#Comment_3610749
If someone is on the hook, someone NOT in a chase should get off a Gen to do the unhook. Allowing them to stay on gens so the person being chased can unhook is like you said, a stupid decision that rather than leading to 2 people on hook... leads to 1. That's not the same thing, that's reward stupid decisions.
And if that chase begins a second before the rescue attempt because the killer is proxy camping?
I'm a proponent for killer agency. Killers should be free to proxy camp as a strategy if it makes sense in the moment. But there's never been a reason to reward that with a double hook. The killer is still at an advantage in a hook trade.
The idea that a survivor mistake should result in a double hook for the killer is stupid. It's like awarding the survivors with a free instant generator repair if they happen to repair the one furthest from the killer.
Hook grabs have always been bullshit, which I say as a killer. The hook dance was always stupid.
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@Chaosrider said:
Disgustingly Scary (if its not Dredge-dark) and Luck of the Draw are probably the only playable modes. All other modes have serious issues with how the game is actually designed.
These two could probably be implemented right now in custom games. They don't really change the gameplay loop at all.
However Hide and Seek, and VIP, are probably viable as actually alternative game modes. The former is more like a 'quick game' mode, which should appeal to those who like to 'go next' all the time. While the latter is more of a team focused format that should probably be SWF only.
The rest seem a bit too far out to me, too far removed from what DBD is.
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@LordGlint said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3610715#Comment_3610715
We're not at all though in the same situation. Hook grabs before allowed a killer to facecamp and grab any survivor trying to stop it. If a killer tries to facecamp NOW, AFC simply let's the hooked survivor leave.
The HEALTHY use of hookgrabs is the only thing being stopped now, in which a survivor who is mid chase decides to do an unhook. If you beeline to a hook mid chase, that's not the killer camping. You deserve to be grabbed.
A survivor mid chase who attempts a hook rescue will take two hits and go down in the process. You can then hook that survivor and you're still in the green. The survivor team is right back where they were before the hook rescue, only they're down one more hook state and one health state. So you've made progress as the killer.
The removal of hook grabs makes that stupid decision a little less stupid, but it is absolutely still a stupid decision to attempt a hook rescue mid chase.
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@Ayodam said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3610559#Comment_3610559
How much more info do solo queue players need? You have the HUD, you can use Kindred (a free perk) for anything the HUD doesn’t cover. There’s not much more gap between solo and SWF beyond player priorities and that isn’t something the devs can force to align. If you want survivors whose goals are aligned with yours, you’ll need to SWF. That’s the way it is.
Using perks is never an option for what should be basic QoL features. This means Solo survivors should resign themselves to 3 perks in order to slightly close the gap. That's not a solution.
Actual plausible features:
- Being able to see each others perk loadouts. This allows survivors to coordinate with each others perks instead of playing against them. E.g. not insisting on healing someone with Resilience, not rushing to rescue someone with Deliverance, etc. DBD mobile has had this for years and it works.
- Survivor location info. Some sort of ping system that emulates the part of Kindred that is useful for solos but superfluous to SWF. Not full out auras, but something more like Killer Instinct to indicate where other survivors are. Conditional, maybe on hook actions just like Kindred, maybe in other situations too. This still allows Kindred to retain value as a perk as auras are more accurate and it has info on the killer too. Maybe toggleable like the visual heartbeat.
- More emotes, potentially with short preset messages. We have point and beckon, but we could also have preset communications like "the killer is coming!" Or "it's safe here" or "heal/repair/cleanse".
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@Nazzzak said:
I'm pretty sure it was actually because of the hooked survivor being subjected to the 'hook dance' between the killer and rescuer. That was the impression I got. That annoying back and forth on their screen.
Yes, and this is still entirely possible with AFC. If there's another survivor in proximity (playing the hook dance) then the AFC bar won't fill.
Hook grabs should stay gone.
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@radiantHero23 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3609440#Comment_3609440
I just saw his video.
I think at some point enough is enough. The devs are to blame for some weird decisions sometime, but there are problems, where I wholeheartedly understand their responses. There is no simple solution to survivors giving up. There is no fast wonder to make soloq more in line with swf.
But if we look at how the game has developed over the years and how much better it got, I do have to say:
Some people are overreacting.
There is no fast wonder to make soloq more in line with swf.
But that's no excuse to give up.
Their response of "we find the issue with swf is more that friends cooperate than a lack of info" is correct, but it doesn't mean you don't do anything about it.
The devs do not have control over player attitudes and behaviours, they DO have control over the info that's available. Help bridge the gap in the ways you have the ability to do so!
You will never make swf equal to solo, but closing that gap by any amount will be an improvement.
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...gen camping?
At 4/5 gens?
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Most of the older Hex perks are useless these days, predominantly those that start the trial already lit.
But NOED is still going strong, and the likes of Plaything or Pentimento, or anything that ignites only when it takes effect, are more than viable.
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Both. It is a problem, but players often see it even when it's not there.
SWF have the inherent advantage of being willing to coordinate, and the facility to voice chat helps. But sometimes solo survivors with decent gamesense and a lucky pair up of likeminded players can perform almost the same. So yes it's a balance problem, but it's a little overblown as often killers simply accuse well-coordinated teams of being SWF.
It can't really be fixed, because it's not a problem of game design, it's an inequality of player attitudes and behaviours, and SWF isn't synonymous with coordination, solos can, rarely, emulate it to a degree, and not all SWFs perform with that level of coordination.
Adding voice chat won't make random solo survivors suddenly willing to coordinate, and penalising SWF will unfairly hinder uncoordinated friend groups.
Best you can do is provide info to survivors that is comparable but also superfluous to voice chat.
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We don't need killer bots. There's never any reason to face off against a pure bot opposition in live games.
Killer DCs = survivors automatically escape
So... all 4 survivors DC should = automatic 4K
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@Devil_hit11 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3601184#Comment_3601184
endurance counters exposed. you got it backwards. Exhaust only counters exhaustion perks. so only DH.
machine gun type effects are counter to endurance. so stbfl, rapid brutality/haste effects indirectly, huntress m2->m1, trickster(though not in current state), bubba chainsaw with add-on's. basically all killer that really strong at face-camping **.
in-chase mobility soft-counters endurance because you can gap-close distance post-hit. This is stuff like Blight's alchemist ring, Nurse, Chucky's Slice & Dice, Wesker's virulent bounds.
You can't Dead Hard for a third health state if you go down in one hit from healthy.
Most other Endurance's come into effect when injured too. Bypass the injured state, bypass Endurance.
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Exposed and Exhaustion usually do.
Endurance usually triggers when survivors are injured, and often deactivates when exhausted.
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@NerfDHalready said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3600960#Comment_3600960
You could just as likely load into an unfavorable map by chance.
what are the chances of you spawning in a killer sided map after a survivor offers a map? yes it's 0% because survivors will send you to survivor sided maps and killers send you killer sided maps or a map that will perfectly fit their build. should be simple logic.
@Akumakaji said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3600960#Comment_3600960
No, it's not. Loading into an unfavourable map might make me cringe at the start and course my luck, but that's that.
Survivor's purposefully SENDING me to a certain map, though, has a very high likelihood that they selected their perks to give them maximum advantage, leading to very unfun and unfair games.
It's not just psychological that 70% of Dead Dog Saloon games with the corresponding offering are a painful Head On challenge or 95% of The Game offerings are sweatlevel over 9000.
It really is an outdated and unfair mechanic and the only reasons why BHVR kept it in dbd game is probably, that they don't know what else to do with offerings.
Two real scenario's that have happened to me.
1. Playing Dredge, tempted to run a Midwich offering because I "always" win as Dredge on Midwich. Decided not to be sweaty. Ended up loading into Midwich without any offerings played anyway, survivors played sweaty, I tried to adapt, suffered my first loss on Midwich.
2. Solo survivor, another survivor plays Haddonfield, killer plays Sacrifical Ward. We end up on Haddonfield anyway. Killer gets 4K.
This animosity to map offerings is largely confirmation bias. Almost every map is perfectly viable for either side, and even if you end up on an unfavorable map you can still win. In instances where a sweaty SWF have played a map offering, the fact that you lost to them has much, much more to do with the fact that they were a sweaty SWF, than because of the map you ended up on. But you end up blaming the map. Confirmation bias, and that's where the psychology comes into it.
Loading into an unfavourable map might make me cringe at the start and course my luck, but that's that.
And if you were unaware you were sent there via offering, you'd be none the wiser and wouldn't be trigered.
Map offerings are a completely valid form of expression, just like choosing your killer or perks. You wouldn't say "remove all perks" because a few were unbalanced, same goes for map offerings. If any maps are unbalanced, fix those maps. If any of these maps were truly a problem, you'd be just as pissed off when you get them by chance. You're not, that means it's psychological.
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@luvcraft said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3600033#Comment_3600033
what would be the benefit of that? keeping players from DCing during load? I haven't seen that happen for a long long time.
although hiding blueprint offerings from the other team might be interesting...
Most of the issue with map offerings is psychological. You could just as likely load into an unfavorable map by chance.
If they were changed to be 50% and hidden, you could never know if you ended up on a map due to an offering.
Now blueprints. They're only really fair if all players know about them... but they could add a hidden, green-rarity blueprint to spawn the hatch in "either the shack or main building". So your side gets a straight 50/50 and the opposition is still checking the entire map.
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@C3Tooth said:
- 1250 bp per Gen x 5 Gens, 6250 bp in total, split to 4 survivors.
- 1500 bp per unhook x 8 hooks, 12000 bp in total, split to 4 survivors.
- 300 bp per heal, in average after 8 hooks, 8 heal, 2400 bp, split to 4 survivors.
Those are the core score event for survivors, and its only ~20.000bp.
Killers' gameplay is a loop of actions: find a survivor - kick Gen - chase - use power - hit - chase - use power - hit - hook...then repeat the actions. Each of those gives killer BP. Kills dont matter, as long as you're able to make alot of loops of actions, you get alot of BP.
Coop actions add 200% additional BP. Coop a gen and get 3750 BP between you. 1875 each
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@Aven_Fallen said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3600802#Comment_3600802
This would be terrible.
This would mean that the better the Survivor, the more likely it will be that they are dead once downed. And since Bloodlust exists, at some point, a Survivor WILL go down. Let alone that a Killer does not need to hit a Survivor, so if they are close before filling up the Meter completely, they can just wait, then when it is filled, down them and kill them instantly.
I also dont really get the "balance" you mentioned. Should the Survivor think about playing badly to not get killed? Let alone that it would be in the Killers control if they actually fell for it or not.
It could be balanced in a way that most of this 'mori meter' is filled by hook actions.
E.g each hook fills it by 40%, then stuns/blinds add 3%, and each minute of chase adds 5%.
So that in order to mori someone, you'd need to hook then twice AND chase then for x second and/or be stunned x times. With the very very unlikely but possible scenario of a significantly aggrivating survivor being moriable after just one hook if no one else takes any aggro.
This would make mori's feel earned, but would also make survivors inclined to share the chase burden.
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More offerings should be hidden. They should add map offerings to the hidden options, so people can be less sure of what the hidden offering could be and aren't immediately salty about the map they load into.
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@MikaelaWantsYourBoon said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3599990#Comment_3599990
That's not true at all.
But the more important question is do we asking for balanced maps for both sides or do we asking maps to be favour one side? Maps should not favour any side.
The 100% perfectly balanced map doesn't exist. There will always be aspects that favour a side or a killer. Stealth killers like indoor maps, mobility killers like open maps, survivors like large maps, killers like small maps, survivors like strong loops, killers like weak loops, both have to exist.
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There are about 30 survivor sided maps.
Heaven forbid we get a third killer sided map.
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I wouldn't go that far. It took nearly 2 years to fix this, and it's mainly a problem because of the poor default joystick deadzone settings, which still cause a problem for a lot of 'aim' killers.
Console-PC parity is one of the games biggest issues.
Just take menu navigation for starters. It can take me several passes just to select the Enter Archives button without flying past it and the side-menu collapsing. Extrapolate that to live play.
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@[Deleted User] said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3596740#Comment_3596740
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3596760#Comment_3596760
Cant that be said about most perks?
Should we then have a rework aura readings ? - you cant retroactively put on Distortion.
Should we then have a rework of scream perks ? - you cant retroactively put on Calm Spirit.
Should we then have a rework all boon and hexes ? - you cant retroactively put on anti boon/hex perks.
and so on...
I thought this game was about to equip perks to counter playstyles, with out knowing if you would face that playstyile in advance.
Reading someones aura isn't something that can cause the game to go into stalemate, and it doesn't remove all options available to the survivor.
Tunneling off the hook used to be an entirely uncounterable tactic, forcing BT to be used in every build, resulting in survivors getting chastised if they didn't run it. So it was made basekit.
3 gens can be a game breaking problem as we saw with Chess Merchant. Deja Vu helps with it, but it can't be solely relied upon.
Without a similar basekit safety net for 3 gens, (that can break a stalemate without just handing the win to survivors) there's always going to be the opportunity for another Chess Merchant.
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@jonifire said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3598409#Comment_3598409
It‘s maybe silly, but part of the game. When Pc players do that I only hate it, because it‘s far harder to hit them as console players.
Which is precisely why it should go. PC players have far too many advantages against consoles.
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@Paternalpark said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3597614#Comment_3597614
There'd be like 5 people left then.
I find it hard to believe most players don't play both roles.
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Just because fixing these issues may result in buffs for survivors, doesn't necessarily mean they're not issues that need fixing.
3 gens, STBFL and Haemorrhage can be problematic. Not always, but certain tactics can abuse them.
But at the same time, if fixing these does tip the balance scales too far one way, then there should be other changes to mitigate that.
Most of the difficulty of playing killer comes from clunky, awkward gameplay design. Ridiculously narrow FoV, exhaustive cooldowns on every single action to give survivors windows to escape, wider than necessary flashlight angles, etc. If these QoL issues can be fixed for killer, it should be more or less equal give and take.
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@AhoyWolf said:
I think Chucky is alright, his add-ons are lackluster tho, not sure why the Devs didn't rework some of them instead of making almost all kinda mid.
I think he has some great add ons. He has a couple that really transform him into a stealth killer like Rusty Nails, as well as others that go all in on Slice and Dice.
I'm liking how versatile he is. He can do a bit of everything, semi-stealth, minor mobility boost, chase power, anti-loop. An all-rounder but much more effective than Freddy, because you direct his playstyle via add ons.
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I love the third person perspective. In lieu of the upcoming FoV upgrades, it makes killer a much less disorienting experience.
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@OrangeBear said:
I will be disappointed if it's a complete revert. I like new sadako and i didn't like the old one because the teleport cooldowns were too long and condemned was... irrelevant.
Why people don't like the new one?
Because they have to interact with Tapes if they don't want to be mori'd.
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Just make M2s lose stacks. It then becomes unreliable for M2 killers, but remains a decent elevator for M1 killers.
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Deja Vu isn't a reliable countermeasure to 3 gens because you can't force every survivor to run it all the time just in cass the killer forces a stalemate with a 3 gen.
Deja Vu doesn't do anything if it's not equipped.
It's the same reason BT is basekit now.
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@radiantHero23 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3595218#Comment_3595218
They said in the livestream, that they will make her more close to what she originally was due to player feedback.
That means that we won.
And around the cycle goes.
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@supersonic853 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3596619#Comment_3596619
Weren't people getting tired of the same killer design after many years? I would think people would enjoy a killer that really turns the norm of killers being the same size or bigger than survivors and just says "nah im short" lol. Personally i have no complaints. Hes definitely unique and what we needed.
People who play killer want something new.
People who don't play killer want Trapper with no traps.
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When people stop playing Chucky so much.
You're complaining about 'traffic'. "Why are there so many cars on the road? I need to get to work!"
They definitely haven't bumped Chucky's priority, I had 10 minute queues as Chucky yesterday.
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@xEa said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3594873#Comment_3594873
Not a lot? For a competetive game?
Look for example LoL, which is by no means perfectly ballanced:
https://www.leagueofgraphs.com/champions/progressions
Or remember Starcraft when Protoss was considered overpowered because of less the 1% edge overall?
Have you played DBD?
I shouldn't need to explain how there is no comparison here.