Seraphor
Seraphor
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@Hippie said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2557861#Comment_2557861
But SWF is already a problem and is not balanced for the game. Why do you want solos to be just as strong and unbalanced? Do you want people to not play Killer anymore?
Solos are already strong enough, they don't need any buffs. There are perks you can take to help you (YOU!) have nearly as much information as SWF, but they're not absolutely necessary. I myself don't even use meta perks to speak of and I have good results nearly every game as an almost purely solo queue player. The game is designed around lack of information--it keeps Survivors from playing at 100% efficiency. SWFs are a problem because they know each others' locations at all times, thus resulting in 100% efficiency in their actions since they don't have to worry about where the Killer is. Survivors at 100% efficiency can end a game in minutes. The LAST thing the game needs is for solos to be brought anywhere close to that level.
Please remember that the game was initially designed for purely solo queue. It was NOT designed for comms and that is completely evident in how powerful a SWF is versus solos. Giving solos free aura-reading because "SWF is stronger!" is completely asinine. If I want to have an easy game, I'll play SWF with comms. If I want to actually play the video game, I'll play solo as I do already and play it the way it was intended to be played. And I'll take aura reading perks if I feel like that information is necessary, which it isn't 99% of the time.
Comms are a fact of life, whether the game was designed with them in mind or not. They are the de facto baseline. However, you cannot nerf SWF. Every attempt or proposed attempt has the inadvertent effect punishing people who are simply playing with friends. Not every SWF group gains an advantage, some play worse.
If you buff solo by way of QoL changes that improve their ability to coordinate with other survivors, that brings them up closer to SWF level without also buffing SWF.
Once solo have been buffed to to SWF level, you can then buff killers to compensate.
Buff to solos + buff to killers = net nerf to SWF.
This is the only way to fairly nerf SWF.
You could also nerf survivors in a way that evenly nerfs SWF and solo players, after giving survivor solo buffs that don't aid SWF, for a similar effect.
QoL changes that aid solo but are superfluous to SWF:
1. The ability to view other survivors loadout in the lobby.
2. A limited basekit ability that allows you to track other survivors. (Ideally using the 'killer instinct' heartbeat graphic to give direction but not an aura)
3. Preset chat messages that appear next to your portrait, such as; "Killer is here!" "Coast is clear" "Help me!" "Leave me"
4. Some choice perk changes that give limited information, such as this Head On suggestion. Additionally: When in the dying state with Unbreakable ready, your aura changes to white instead of red. When hooked with active Deliverance, white aura instead of red. Etc.
None of these things aid SWF because SWF would already be aware of them.
With this in place, with all survivors on a much closer level, you could buff killer / nerf survivor in away that balances it out. Such as:
1. Slower gen speeds or more effective basekit slowdown, like a % of base regression on kicking, or a delay to halting regression.
2. Exhaustion or Bloodlust changes to slightly favour killer more, such as having the Exhausted status prevent fast vaults.
3. Survivor item/add-on rebalancing.
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@GodSpeed_CDN said:
And Ruin, NOED, Devour hope, Haunted grounds, Mori should exist?
Mori...
When was the last time you saw one of those?
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@MrCalac123 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2557989#Comment_2557989
Changes nothing, Dead Hard used well extends a chase whether it be a window OR pallet. Everything you list about "countering" Dead Hard consists of either luck or mistake on the Survivors side, that is ZERO counter play from the Killer in any form.
What did I list?
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@MrCalac123 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2557912#Comment_2557912
"Window semi useless" opinion discarded
If you DH into a window you won't be able to fast vault it
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I cover pretty much all of this in my "shaking up the meta" post:
@Seraphor said:
Adrenaline, Decisive Strike, Dead Hard, Unbreakable, Sprint Burst, Borrowed Time, Iron Will... meta perks you see in just about every game, how can be shake things up and get other perks in there?
[1] Hail Mary
First things first, two of those perks are exclusive already, Dead Hard and Sprint Burst. Why? They're 'Exhaustion Perks', perks that trigger a status that prevents the use of any like perks.
We already have a limiting factor built into the game. Which means that some of the strongest perks cannot be stacked. Dead Hard, Sprint Burst, Head On, Lithe, Balanced Landing... (Adrenaline is in there too but only as an honorary member seeing as it supersedes any existing Exhausted status)
Realistically speaking, a survivor can only use one of those perks at a time, which limits their use, even though survivors aren't outright prevented from running those perks together, and may even be able to pull them off in the right situations.
So... why not translate this system to other meta perks?
Which meta perks work similarly enough that they could share a resource?
I think; Decisive Strike and Unbreakable fit the bill pretty well because they can each only be used once per trial. You can even throw in Adrenaline and Deliverance to the mix too. These are all powerful, one-time use perks. So what if they were exclusive?
What if using a DS meant you also spent your UB at the same time? These two in particular would make the most sense, seeing as they essentially cover both bases, you either get picked up right away and use DS, or you get slugged and use UB.
So I'd suggest that these perks inflict a new status, that remains for the duration of the trial, and prevents the use of these self-same perks.
This way, in much the same way that survivors have to choose between all of the Exhaustion perks, they also have to choose between these 'single use' perks too. Pick one, DS or UB, and if you choose to take both, which you still can, then you only rely on one of them. You either get picked up and DS, get slugged and UB, or you get hooked and Deliverance yourself off it. Failing that, you get your Adrenaline at the end of the game and consume it that way.
"There comes a moment in everyone life, where it seems a higher power has blessed them with immense good fortune. This could be your single luckiest moment, do not squander it."
- Successful execution of Decisive Strike/Unbreakable/Deliverance/Adrenaline inflicts you with the 'Hail Mary' status.
- Being inflicted with the 'Hail Mary' status prevents the use of Decisive Strike/Unbreakable/Deliverance/Adrenaline.
- Adrenaline no longer uses the Exhaustion status.
[2] Focus Charges
Next is perks that can be used multiple times in a trial, and should be use multiple times, or for longer durations. Things such as Borrowed Time, Iron Will, etc.
Again this is a relatively simple suggestion; give them limited charges. But the idea is to also make the perks exclusive so that they're not always used together in every game... so, make them share charges. When one perk loses a charge, so do the rest. You can still stack multiples of these perks if you want but they share the same resource.
Should BT and IW have limited charges? Chances are you're only using these perks a handful of times anyway. For started there's a hard cap of 6 uses on BT anyway, that's IF you're the only survivor who does the unhooking, so fewer charges than that shouldn't be too much of a nerf. Iron Will probably should be limited in some way, but a generous limit, so that it can safely protect you, but not keep you hidden indefinitely.
Other token based perks could also be included in here, such as Distortion, or Appraisal. And then there's Lucky Break, an effect that triggers for an extended, yet finite duration, similar to Iron Will I guess.
"Staying focused takes it's toll on you, there's only so long you can hold out before your concentration slips, and you make the wrong play. What will that mistake cost you?"
- Borrowed Time starts the game with 3 'Focus Charges', When an unhooked survivor is hit while under the effect of Endurance, a 'Focus Charge' is consumed.
- Iron Will starts the game with 3 'Focus Charges'. If injured, when the killer comes within 28 meters Iron Will activates for 30 seconds, reducing sounds of pain by 50/75/100%, and a 'Focus Charge' is consumed. (maximum 90s)
- Lucky Break starts the game with 3 'Focus Charges'. When injured, Lucky Break activates for 12/16/20 seconds, eliminating pools of blood and scratch marks, and a 'Focus Charge' is consumed. (maximum 60s)
- Distortion and Appraisal also consume a 'Focus Charge' when used.
- When one perk consumes a 'Focus Charge', all self-same perks consume a 'Focus Charge'.
The result of these adjustments means that there are new categories of exclusive perks, most of which are meta, forcing survivors to choose their perks a little more wisely.
Three categories; Exhaustion perks, Hail Mary perks, and Focus perks.
Exhaustion: Dead Hard, Sprint Burst, Head On, Lithe, Balanced Landing.
Hail Mary: Decisive Strike, Unbreakable, Deliverance, Adrenaline.
Focus: Borrowed Time, Iron Will, Distortion, Lucky Break, Appraisal.
The new 'meta' would be to choose one perk from each of those categories, with the fourth slot a free choice.
It's not going to completely eliminate all of the meta perks from being used every single game, but it will reduce some combos and open up that fourth slot to a 'less meta' perk for some greater variety.
You might see some more Soul Guard as some survivors prefer to run DS but still want to get themselves up.
You might see some more Babysitter/Guardian as some survivors prefer to run Iron Will but still want to offer unhooked survivors some protection.
Maybe you want to run Appraisal for a neat item-based build with the new Built To Last? Well that's going to cost you Borrowed Time.
Basically, making UB and DS exclusive, you either use one or the other, just like exhaustionperks. While making IW somewhat limited like Lucky Break, while also making it exclusive with LB.
Additionally for exhaustion perks, I'd perhaps also make the Exhausted status change all fast vaults into medium vaults.
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@Hippie said:
I don't think Head On needs to be changed in that way at all. It's not meant to be a free pallet stun for your teammates to use while they're being chased... it's simply a niche exhaustion perk for Solo Queue that is fun to use and strong when you pull it off.
The last thing we need is for Solo Queue to be buffed to the level of SWF in any way, shape or form. And I mostly play solo queue Survivor! We need SWF to be brought down close to the level of Solo Queue if that is possible.
Buffing solo to SWF level is exactly what needs to happen and people have been begging for it for years. This is one small way to head in that direction.
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SBMM doesn't "promote" anything, because gaining MMR isn't an objectively positive outcome, while 'gaining a pip' is.
MMR isn't a reward.
You will never know 'how far' your MMR will get. It's useless to try and track or game the system.
Motivation is the same as it has always been. Gain pips to rank/grade up. That uses the same emblem system we've always had.
At least it should be if people would stop worrying about MMR.
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@psionic said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2557065#Comment_2557065
That's a beautiful speech, but it's not what happens in reality. Solo survivors are the ones being punished actually. They are being punished when other players dc. They are being punished by swf groups when they are considered the least of their priority. They are being punished by being queued with players out of their skill and we know that the SBMM does not work. They don't have swf advantages that are able to be efficient with bloodpoints and objectives when the swf wants to.
As for the killer, match time is not an excuse for how awful is to face swf and that's the reason why a vast majority of players think twice to decide playing the killer role.
I'm sorry, but believing that it's a punishment it is a very selfish point of view.
Are you aiming this at me or the devs? I've literally just repeated their comments.
It's true either way. An unequal reward for one side is a penalty for the other. If you're grinding out BP, then you wouldn't be able to play with friends.
As for killer, every survivor score requires a killer score. Every chase score for the survivor requires a chase score for the killer. Every heal or unhook requires a hit and a hook for the killer.
I've never come out of a killer game with less than the survivors.
Of course genrushing SWFs result in my lowest scores, but also their lowest scores too.
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30m might be a little too generous, I'd say 18m, but otherwise agreed.
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Oooh you mean lag.
You lagged.
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@SabunoHakia said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2554559#Comment_2554559
Well I sure have seen this phrase happening far too much where in other instances it NEVER HAPPENS. Seems to happen a lot on bad killers and special situations when the killer is losing but that is my experience.
...I still have no idea what Lunge Lag Hooking is.
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Devs have already said they won't do this, because any reward for solos is a de facto punishment for SWF, and why should you be penalised for playing with your friends? Why should you feel like you're losing out by playing with your friends, when you could be earning more BP solo?
A bonus for the killer would theoretically be fine, except that killers already by default earn more BP than survivors, as they're fundamentally in the game the longest.
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@Dino7281 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2557055#Comment_2557055
I am pretty sure it would be possible to just calculate it for everyone when game actually ends.
That's kinda same as you don't see killer perks till game ends. So I don't think this would be an issue.
You die/escape first. You reach the scoreboard and your score is tallied. Other players are still in the game. So you leave the game and queue into your next one.
10 minutes later the last player of your previous game leaves, you're halfway through your next game. Are you expecting your score to be retroactively adjusted?
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@Dino7281 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2556549#Comment_2556549
" If you escape first, then it'll award you 14 with nothing extra, because no others survivors have escaped... yet"
So it will be stand off till end of the collapse?
I wouldn't care if you escape first or last. I would take into account how many escaped and also if someone died, then I would track how many gens left. If they died with 0 gens left, then it's not big deal, but if he died on 4 gens left, then I would give them massive boost for it for escaping.
Hatch would be still 0 of course.
That's the thing though. Your scores in all respects are calculated when you leave the game, via escape or death.
So if you escape first, then it cannot factor in who else died or escaped, at all, because it doesn't know yet, the game is still playing out.
You'd be forced to hold all players hostage until the very last player has left, before scores are calculated.
This is precisely the reason why it's calculated as a 1v1. It's not ideal, but it's an immutable fact as long as we're not holding players hostage to watch their team mates finish the game.
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To be fair, she was never OP, she was just "unfun" to play against.
Her power is tailored in such a way that you either have very strong anti loop, or better map pressure, but not both, due to the recharge on her power. The best use of her power is in a chase, not crossing a map, so naturally, she still has no map pressure, just like any other M1 killer.
Spirit can be very powerful, catching survivors unawares, or outplaying them effortlessly at loops. But if you can't actually engage survivors because they're spread out across the map, and they're smart about hook rescues, you will lose just as easily as Trapper as every gen pops off in the distance. Spirit is one of the few killers where immersed blendette is the meta.
It now won't be so effortless to outplay survivors at loops anymore, so that's definitely more fair, but now she's lost her edge that sets her apart from other M1 killers.
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@adirgeforthedead said:
Maps that count as jumping from great height, as far as I'm concerned.
MacMillan State
- Coal Tower (main building only)
- Ironworks of Misery (main building only)
Autohaven Wreckers
- Blood Lodge (main building only)
Coldwind Farm
- The Thompson House (main building only)
Crotus Penn Asylum
Disturbed Ward (main building only)
Father Campbell's Chapel (main building only)
Haddonfield
- Lampkin Lane
Blackwater Swamp
- The Pale Rose
- Grim Pantry
Lery's Memorial Institute
- Treatment Theatre (only the jumps from the staircase in the central area)
Red Forest
- Mother's Dwelling (main building only)
- Temple of Purgation (only the jumps from the hidden staircase in the main building and the one where you enter the underground)
Springwood
- All iterations (only two story house)*
Gideon Meat Plant
- The Game
Yamaoka State
- Sanctum of Wrath (main building only)
Ormond
- Mount Ormond Resort (main building only)
Hawkins National Laboratory
- The Underground Complex
Grave of Glenvale (currently disabled)
- Dead Dawg Saloon
Silent Hill
- Midwich Elementary School
Raccoon City
- Raccoon City Police Department
I just decided to compile this list in case you'd like some help or someone else is having trouble with it and could get some use of it. I share the painful suffering of struggling with it myself and wished I had something like this at the time.
* In Springwood, there is also the chance that a window spawns in the house that has the basement and that counts as well, but I did not include it on since it's very RNG dependent and I rarely see it myself.
All maps not mentioned don't have anything that counts and jumping from the tall mounds has never counter for me.
Falling off hills has worked for me, but I think the variation in height from the difference edges and boulders is right on the line of "high enough" to count. Basically it has to be the highest part of the hill, which isn't easy to gauge.
For reference I got mine all in one game on hills on Yamaoka against Legion.
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@Dino7281 said:
I would be fine with escape / kill MMR, IF it was based on team results, not individual.
It's just dumb that I go on suicide mission to save a friend from face-camping and that results in MMR loss. It just promotes selfish playing.
MMR for killers would be good, but for that you have to use proper MMR for survivors.
It really should moderate it and take both into account.
For example lets say the best escape 'score' is +20 MMR, well a portion of that should reflect how the other survivors did.
Maybe something like: Up to 14 points for escaping, adjusted for how quickly you escaped and the relative MMR of the killer. +2 for each other survivor that also escapes whose MMR is lower than the killer, +1 if higher.
The only issue could be how and when it tallies up the results. If you escape first, then it'll award you 14 with nothing extra, because no others survivors have escaped... yet.
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Agreed.
Silver could be a very slightly blue light-grey. And Ash could be darkened slighty, maybe a little more brownish.
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Being able to reconnect to games after a DC could be useful in some cases, such as yours, but in the vast majority of cases you'll probably end up dead anyway.
Presumably DCing would just disconnect you from your character, and you'll be stood there motionless until you reconnect. Leavings survivors vulnerable and killers impotent while your opponents win the game.
Would that be any less of a downside? You'll reconnect, still be in the game, but you'll basically have already lost if you haven't actually lost yet. You'll still be tied up for 5-15 minutes in a game you've basically written off, so you're not saving much time.
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@KateMain86 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2554625#Comment_2554625
Yea let me use a 100% BP bonus offering and risk getting little out of it from a camping or tunneling killer. I have had people tell me they don't even like using anniversary cakes and still have some from previous years because they don't think they'll get much use out of them. I feel the same. Besides that, escape cakes don't show up that often in the blood web, at least not for me. My suggestions is not irrational. Not losing an item you DID NOT GET TO USE AT ALL (no charges used) is not a bad thing.
You get even less out of them if you don't use them at all.
I get it, maybe 1 in 4 or somedays 1 in 3 games are essentially write offs, and any BP offerings feel wasted. But the other games, where I score 20k+ BP and didn't use a BP offering? They're even worse. That's adefinite 20k+ I know I missed out on.
In the end, even when the game doesn't go my way, I still never get less than about 8k BP. An additional 8k is better than nothing.
As for the topic. Nah. If you died, why should you get to keep your disposable items?
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They shouldn't, but occasionally it seems to 'forget' what your dailies were and rerolls them.
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@bjorksnas said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2555583#Comment_2555583
the incentive to play scummy for easy kills is easy kills / winning the match with a near guaranteed 4k , mmr just comes with it
So absolutely no change from before MMR then.
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@Pepsidot said:
No. But mostly just because they for some reason revealed how MMR works. But... why? I can now expect more survivors to leave instead of going for end game saves just so their MMR stays up. That's boring. Immersed Claudette's that do nothing and die last are better rewarded than someone being chased for 4 gens.
Honestly the old bloodpoint system would probably work better. I can't remember the exact BP you needed to black pip, pip and double pip but let's just go back to that system :).
Perhaps adjust the BP pipping threshold a bit if needed and change the rank reset to a colour above your current rank and you're good to go. (I genuinely wouldn't mind the old ranking system despite some of its problems).
Edit: I'm actually now remembering the issues with the old BP pipping system such as killers which gain BP easily being used to pip easily. And a few other issues... but yeah...
Why. Would. Anyone. Try. To. Increase. Their. MMR?
Everyone keeps saying "there's no incentive to play fair because you can increase your MMR by playing cheap for easy kills/escapes" or "there's no reason to play as a team because selfishness increases MMR."
But increasing your MMR does nothing for you!
That's why it's hidden! It's not a goal, there is no prize, there is no incentive.
You're all insane.
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@bjorksnas said:
Since there is no reward for playing nice as kills being the only statistic that matters for killer mmr there is no incentive to play nice since you gain nothing from it, camping / tunneling a survivor out early gives you 1 win and basically secures 3 more from killing the other survivors who are now most likely at your mercy
maybe if the mmr system and bloodpoints (needs to be both one or the other isn't sufficient for the majority) rewarded nicer play it would shift how a majority of players act such as removing the current scoring for mmr and replacing it with something that gives points based on a chart then adding them up and subtracting a calculated base amount, and rewarding blood point multipliers during and at the end of the match based on playing nice
MMR isn't a reward. You gain nothing from increasing your MMR.
So no, there is no 'incentive' to play scummy for easy kills.
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Everyone got a load of points, including you (and as Trapper with no slowdown perks) so it must have been a fairly balanced game.
Games that are entirely one-sided end quickly and nobody gets more than about 10-12k BP.
There's a few meta perks but it's not all meta perks. Nice to see Soul Guard instead of Unbreakable for once.
I know you're not referring to the grades because grade isn't related to MMR or skill.
So what's the issue here?
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@tippy2k2 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2555376#Comment_2555376
Well what's even worse with it is that I went ahead and tried to play a game to prioritize myself over every one else. I didn't try to save anyone, I avoided the killer as much as possible. I prioritized doing bones with Small Game over generators (because I'll be damned if I'm going to get killed once again because of NOED). I did just enough to make sure the gens were all completed and prioritized getting to the gate and getting the hell out of Dodge ASAP.
I survived the match but had one of the most boring experiences I've ever had as a survivor. All three teammates were killed and I scored the lowest points in the game, even with the 5,000 extra BP I got for surviving that they didn't get for dying.
I have no desire to ever play like that again and if the game is going to try to force my hand to play like that...
So what's more fun to you?
Playing a boring game and surviving with 10k BP. Or playing a fun game with the chance that you will die and still score 20k BP?
Why are you trying to game your MMR? If you just play, game after game as it comes, some you die, some you escape, your MMR will be working as it should in the background putting you where you should be, to give you the best chance to survive at least 50% of the time.
If you keep playing your boring games where you guarantee you survive but have no fun. You're going to back yourself into a corner where you'll end up against killers at a higher level than you, that will force you to play more and more cautiously, having less and less fun in the process.
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@SmarulKusia said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2555367#Comment_2555367
You don't get punished if your escape wasn't deserved.... You've contradicted yourself in your own post - the game sees it as black or white - either you escaped or you didnt - which I am arguing is wrong.
Why is it wrong because you do not start the game with the ability to escape - you have to work towards it through other objectives such as unhooking others or completing generators, and in some cases, distracting the killer for others to complete generators. It is absolutely outrageous that there are multiple factors to the game that are being overlooked by one criteria which is whether you were killed or you escaped.
No skill is being assessed in that because your active engagement in the match is not being monitored for the purpose of MMR. It's a terrible system, and the ranking (aka 'grades') are deceiving, especially to newer players, about just how well or badly you engaged in that match.
I didn't contradict anything, read it again. I said losing MMR isn't a punishment. First line of my post, I said it's the opposite, and then explained why.
I know it's not a skill based system exactly, it's not, and SBMM is a complete misnomer. But it is an effective Results based system, and it works in matching players who have a fair shot at escaping/killing against each other, regardless of skill, or luck.
With so much RNG and imbalance in this game, you cannot accurately gauge skill. This is the next best thing.
Did you win because you're good at the game? Or did you win because you brought Ruin, Undying, Pop and NOED? Or did you win because all the survivors gave up and killed themselves on first hook? The game will never be able to tell.
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@SmarulKusia said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2554616#Comment_2554616
Except, the game is assessing games as a 1v1 now rather than a 1v4 - despite demanding the survivor side to be altruistic and to work together - how is that NOT problematic?
If we are to make the game award selfishness then they need to remove the reliance that exists in the game currently and allow players to be more independent - but this isnt the reality.
MMR isn't a "reward". It is not "rewarding" players who survive, or "punishing" players who don't. If anything it's the opposite.
If you survive, regardless of 'how' you survived, then the game recognises that as a win, and adjusts your MMR so that you will face tougher challenges, ideally reducing your chances to win, unless you improve.
If you die, regardless of how you died, the game recognises that as a loss, and so adjusts your MMR so that your subsequent games will be a little easier, increasing your chances of survival.
It really doesn't matter whether or not your escape/death was deserved or not. If it wasn't, then you get punished for your cheap tactics and are forced to face tougher opponents. If it was deserved, then you're rightfully placed against higher MMR opponents who are more on your level.
If you did everything right, and you looped the killer for 5 hours, and made 20 hook rescues, scored 30 stuns, healed 10 health states and repaired 500 generators, and after demonstrating all of that skill you still died... the game will rightfully lower your MMR, because why should you be able to play that well and still die?
Meanwhile, if you got downed 20 seconds into the game and camped on hook, the game thinks you're in way above your head and adjusts your MMR down so that you stand a better chance of playing in the next one.
Both scenarios are fair for the individual. The only way they're not fair is when you compare it with other players. "It's not fair that Claudette's MMR goes up when mine goes down because she did nothing and I did everything!" well so what? Claudette's MMR means nothing to yours and yours means nothing to her. You'll likely never match with her again anyway.
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@SmarulKusia said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2554516#Comment_2554516
Eh, yes we do, just because MMR doesnt influence it doesnt mean that it's non-existent.
Then what does it even mean?
So what if the rank disparity is absolutely atrocious, rank and MMR has no connection, therefore it's meaningless.
You could be grade Ash 3 and matched against Iridescent 1s and still have a more evenly matched game than if you were all Ash 3's.
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@Clevite said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2555002#Comment_2555002
I didn't say it should, just that it is.
Hence the suggestion to change it...
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@GoshJosh said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2554769#Comment_2554769
Getting one hook and another down on the same survivor ≠ completing at least three generators + some survivors dying, or completing all five generators. Most reasonable people agree there was no need to remove the hatch spawning at least in the latter situation (all gens repaired).
Killer’s don’t need to 4K every match. It should be ok if survivors have another way of escaping the trial besides the exit gates with a powerful, rare item and specific circumstances.
The last survivor getting the hatch is absolutely fine.
Survivors getting away because they completed their objective and opened the gates is absolutely fine.
Even all or all remaining survivors getting the hatch would be fine if it required all gens to be repaired.
What's not fine, is when the killer is doing everything they're meant to, everything right, by patrolling gens, running interference to prevent gens getting repaired, applying pressure by hooking and injuring survivors to slow down gen repairs... and then survivors escape anyway because they found the god mode button that instantly wins the game.
You simply can't chase, injure and hook survivors (main objective), at the same time as pressuring gens (side-objective/counter-objective) AND find the time to also search for and guard the hatch at the same time.
Survivors can't open exit gates without first powering them. In exactly the same manner, they shouldn't be able to open the hatch without completing their main objective either.
The killer can't finish their objective (kill/sacrifice) without first fulfilling all prerequisites (2 prior hook states) regardless of whether they're using a Mori or not. So the same for survivors would be not being able to finish their objective (escape) without first fulfilling all prerequisites (5 gens repaired).
It's not a win, it's a forfeit. You didn't escape, you just quit the game, and robbed your opponent of the chance to compete at all.
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@Yuhg said:
it would be just as easy to everytime a gen is kicked and the survivors try to repair it, a skillcheck is required. If they just tap it and continue the chase, the gen explodes and regresses the normal failed skillcheck regression. It's like overcharge, but without it being a "hard" skillcheck. I would also rework overcharge if this is done tho.
This is essentially making Overcharge basekit. While it's a solution, I don't think it's one BHVR would go for.
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They need to implement a delay for repairing regressing generators.
Non-regressing generators can start repair immediately, but if you go to repair a gen that's regressing, then it should take 2.5 seconds of contact during which the regression only pauses, but does not stop, and repair progress is not made.
If you continue to hold onto the gen for more than 2.5 seconds then repairs begin and regression is stopped, but if you let go within those first 2.5 seconds, then the gen regression resumes, and no repairs were made.
This would still be in the survivors favour, because of the 1v4 cost discrepancy, 2.5 seconds is worth a lot more to the killer than it is to the survivor. But it would eliminate gen tapping in a chase, which is the most bullshit thing next to mid-game hatch escapes, which are thankfully finally going away.
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@FeelsBadMan said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2554641#Comment_2554641
Exactly. I usually play solo, sometimes duo but if I ever end up in a full SWF again (most of my friends stopped playing years ago), I will have a ton of BP offerings and items to use. Until then I will just heep hording.
Narrator: But he never played full SWF again, and those items were never used.
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@FeelsBadMan said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2554625#Comment_2554625
Oh I have more than enough items but why should I bring them when there is the high chance I am gonna end up getting sacrificed without ever using it?
Because that's what items are. Disposable.
You're just going to sit on 100 med kits never using them because you might... actually... use them?
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@FeelsBadMan said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2554549#Comment_2554549
Killer also can get 15k+ points easily in a match even if they do really bad to compensate for their addons. Meanwhile if the killer finds for you first and decides to camp you till death (or your random teammates won't unhook you) you will lose your item AND maybe won't even get enough bp's to compensate for the loss.
Thats the reason why I never bring items in my solo queue matches - or BP offerings. Not worth it (I still have like 50+ event cakes across all my survivos)
Maybe if you used your cakes you'd have enough BP for items...
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BBQ and WGLF. Need those tasty bloodpoints.
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Has anyone heard of this phrase before? Lunge Lag Hooking?
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Any items you bring into a match are spent upon you entering the game.
Being able to reuse them when you escape is the bonus.
Killer doesn't get to reuse their add ons.
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How can you be seeing any rank disparity when there are no ranks?
You have to go by experience in the game, and what your team mates are actually doing.
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Leaving the other remaining survivor to die on hook so you can get the hatch is already a thing. I don't see how this will change anything there.
"Do gens or die." Absolutely. Do the objective or fail the game.
Do gens for christs sake. I can't count how many times we all die because I'm the only one doing gens and everyone else is dicking about with the killer getting themselves killed. Do gens. Punish camping.
It was absolute bullshit that you could be doing your objective as killer by patrolling the gens, preventing their repairs, when suddenly the game just ends because the survivors all vanished down a hole.
Now I do think the hatch should spawn when all gens are done. The survivors objective is mostly complete and the killer doesn't need to worry about gens anymore, so having three potential escape points instead of two is fine.
But having the hatch spawn when there are still gens to repair was always a load of crap. That's always had to go, and now it is. All the issues with keys vanish if the hatch doesn't spawn while there are still objectives to conplete.
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Slowing down injured survivors would just guarantee that an injured survivor will go down. No more hit and runs, no more using injures as slow down, just tunnel one survivor at a time, and they all effectively have one health state, because as soon as you get hit once, you're guaranteed to get hooked.
Now a very strict exhaustion system I could maybe see working, but it would have to have some very stringent factors. Something like:
When sprinting you fill up a hidden meter at 1c/s, and when you stop it decreases at 6c/s. When it hits 60 you become Exhausted.
Exhaustion remains exactly as it is now (no slowdown) but this would mean that any Exhaustion perks could be spent before you use them if you just hold W for 60 seconds straight with no breaks.
Then, if you're already Exhausted, this hidden meter fills again while sprinting. When it hits 60 again, you become 'Fatigued', which prevents you from fast vaulting, or any other rushed actions. Plus if you try to fast vault, you suffer from Hindered (slowing you down) for 5 seconds.
This would essentially put a soft 2 minute cap on chases, except for when you can dupe the killer and take a breather, extending your hidden meter.
Loop the killer well and you can stave off the exhaustion, but if you're just barely hanging on or just holding W, you're not going to get a chance to extend your 2 minutes.
Even when you hit your 2 minutes, you may still be able to carry on, just avoid fast vaults.
But using an Exhaustion perk would basically sacrifice your first 60s, increasing the cost of such perks. Risk reward, using exhaustion perks means you have to loop or dupe better.
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@CashelP14 said:
I think it would make certain killers quite broken. Plus what killers would the community agree on being too weak and too strong.
I think they would be better adding a mode of transport or something to be able to move to the other side of the map for the weaker killers.
I think certain large maps could have access points on the edge, where the killer can enter on one side and emerge on the other side. Could be balanced in a way that it still takes time to travel, like a Demo's portal but even slower, but that's still quicker than walking that distance. Have it only open x seconds into a game, probably 120 or more, so that the killer can't just TP to the opposite side of the map with a lucky spawn at the start of the game.
It's probably not something that could be easily balanced for all maps, so it would probably have to be a new gimmick for a new large map.
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Any faster movement speed would be far too oppressive in a 1v1, yet it still wouldn't solve the real issue with the lower end killers; map pressure.
Ideally you want killers to be able to gain distance between encounters with survivors, but not be able to catch up with survivors so quickly in a chase (unless it's part of their power that comes with a cost).
Potentially, something that increases your movement speed when there are no survivors within 32 meters of you, could make sense. However it's unlikely to be a basekit feature and more likely to be a perk, if anything. Plus anything that turns off when you come within 32 meters of a survivor will ultimately end up fulfilling the same role as Whispers as well.
Personally I'd just like more killers with teleport or teleport-like powers.
Perhaps a perk that increases your movement speed by 5% for 15 seconds after kicking a gen could work too. As this comes with a cost (the kick) while either being used to make up the distance lost in a chase caused by the kick itself, or to make headway towards the next gen where you'll find survivors. As with all gen-kick perks, you'll ideally want to combo it, probably with Pop.
Failing that, there's always Play With Your Food.
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This is just one extreme to the other.
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WTAF BHVR.
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@kate_best_girl said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2550203#Comment_2550203
Bro I usually play extremely altruistic. I don’t like leaving people behind. I can loop the hell out of a killer and I know when to prioritize gens but my survivor matches are becoming frustrating because my team is becoming increasingly more incompetent and it finally makes sense with this system. You are PUNISHED for being a team player yet they expect you to be one.
It's like you didn't understand a word I said.
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Five games would increase your MMR by a maximum of 100, maximum. Potentially only about 25 or so.
Which is probably equivalent in old rank terms to gaining 2 ranks.
Matchmaking still relies on enough players playing at the same time you are.
So if you could be matched with players 2 ranks above or below you before, then being matched with players 100 MMR either side of you would be just as likely.