Seraphor
Seraphor
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@CyberRoninX said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3084536#Comment_3084536
Cool if it doesn't work for you but when a killer is trying to give me the win whey they could have clearly killed me ill just stand there. If they try to drop me on the hatch ill sit there until my timer runs out. Most of the time they get bored and put me on hook.
Why? The hatch doesn't count as an escape as far as kill rates go, it's neutral.
At that point, it's a 50/50 chance you get to the hatch first anyway, you're not skewing any data.
You're just wasting everyone's time, your own BP, and the killer's good faith.
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@Sumnox said:
Give it time and killers will start complaining about Deja Vu.
Deja Vu plays in the killers favour. They can already see the three closest gens and choose to defend those to ensure they get a 3 gen. Survivors attempting to make use of their repair buff will be sitting ducks.
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I suggested something similar:
@Seraphor said:
- Raising the BP category caps from 8k to 10k is great, but it raises an issue. The Survival and Sacrifice categories are notoriously stingy when it comes to what actions provide BP score events for these, pretty much being tailored specifically to optimal performance plus escaping, or getting 10+ hooks and a 4K. Those extra 2,000 BP are going to be very difficult to obtain.
- BBQ and WGLF's BP bonuses provided an incentive to play in a fairer healthier way. Spreading hooks out amongst survivors instead of camping/tunneling, and in aiding your team mates instead of leaving them to fend for themselves.
So, there seems to be a clear solution here. Introduce new BP score events that replicate the effects of the BBQ/WGLF BP bonuses.
Survivor: The first four times you; unhook a survivor, heal a survivor to healthy, recover a survivor form the dying state, take a protection hit, you score a bonus 500 BP in the Survival category.
Killer: Each time a survivor is hooked for the first time, you score a bonus 500 BP in the Sacrifice category.
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@Johnny_XMan said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3083318#Comment_3083318
The game shouldn’t have been designed around someone’s “mood” to determine if a match is going to be fair or not.
I’ve used this metaphor before. Imagine telling a kid they can have one of the two bags of candy sitting on the table, and one if full the other has like 3 pieces of candy. Which one do you think they will go for?
It’s the same deal here. Killers are playing to win and if that means Camping and Tunneling, then that is what they will do. Doesn’t mean that it isn’t bad design or that it can ruin someone’s ability to participate because to they hang on a hook for several minutes.
It entirely depends on the motives of the killer. If they're after a high score, that can be obtained via tunnelling sure, but it could also be obtained by hitting the more significant score events.
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@Sumnox said:
Yes, we need more killer buffs!
Those pesky survivors think they got nerfed, when they're extremely overpowered. Especially the solo q ones.
Save the best for last should also give the killer haste to make up for the OVERPOWERED basekit haste effect survs got this highly survivor sided patch.
-A solo q main.
I take it you like being camped then?
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@Friendly_Blendette said:
Yes it does. It is a conspicious action so it voids the BT.
It shouldn't do. Conspicuous Actions doesn't apply to all endurance, they only apply to two perks specifically, DS and OtR.
Perhaps they had OtR, and the endurance effect from OtR trumped the basekit endurance, so when they performed the unhook, it removed OtR's endurance but did not maintain the BT.
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@Lecruidant said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3082508#Comment_3082508
How were they OP? Because they had an exhaustion perk that you didn't know how to bait out? Or because they had a perk to escape tunneling (DS) that just got nerfed and you didn't like being stabbed after tunneling and downing? I await your logic.
End Game DS was indeed a problem, and highly abusable, you down a survivor with it near an exit gate and they were guaranteed to escape, but that's not an issue any more. It didn't need another nerf to 3s as well though.
DH was also abusable, using it purely for distance didn't require any skill or require the killer to 'bait it', it just artificially extended chases, and it was especially bad at exit gates. It could also be used to completely negate killer powers, like bear traps, and shock blast. It's in a much better place now. It still works as it used to for tanking hits, same duration of 0.5s, and if you use it correctly and do tank the hit, you still get the speed boost. But now it's not used for whiffing powers or free distance.
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Extra 10 seconds is fine. But Thanatophobia did not need a buff in line with this, it needed a slight nerf, to 4% per stack.
Killer speed boosts are fine, but in light of this, DS did not need a nerf to 3s. It can safely go back to 5s now.
Spine Chill now hard counters every stealth killer. It's too much at once. It should be Line of Sight AND 36 meters, not OR.
Self Care didn't need a nerf. This was a solo survivor perk, not a SWF perk, it's just penalised solos more.
Also Ruin, BBQ and Pain Res changes removed the incentives to not camp/tunnel. Keep Ruin's killswitch after a survivor is eliminated but return it to 200%, give BBQ some kind of incentive for hooking every survivor again, and nerf Pain Res to 10% regression while returning it's noise notification, but still leave out the scream that would trigger DMS.
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@[Deleted User] said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3082002#Comment_3082002
I’m surprised you didn’t get called out here, but it isn’t childish or “sabotaging” if people quit playing a game. You’re literally begging people to play survivor again. You go play survivor to balance out the queues if it means that much to you.
It's childish and sabotaging when you play the game, but you quit at 4 gens because the killer is using Thana or you missed your new DH.
My solo survivor games have been as varied as they used to be, with a decent amount of escapes, and likewise my killer games have been mixed. But where they're not, it's invariably because a survivor has quit early on in the game.
And it is childish to refuse to play the game at all just because you lost DH. There's an entire game here that's still just as functional as before. It's a petty boycott based on false pretenses and entitlement.
The game is fine, these changes are much needed balance changes to give killers a chance again. If everyone just played the game, their MMR would adjust them to a point where they're winning half of their games again.
All the survivors refusing to play any more are overeacting and refusing to adjust.
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@scenekiller said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3082057#Comment_3082057
That isn’t the full picture. On paper, sure, those are slight inconveniences. But solo queue deals with the double edged sword of “do I bring perks that will help me counter the killer? Or do I bring perks that offset terrible teammates?” Hence why solo queue did have “crutch perks”
The result is a lot of people feeling the cards are immeasurably stacked against them. And who wants to play a game like that in their free time? Most of us aren’t entitled, boosted bullies. Most of us just want to feel we have a chance to play the game, and that’s simply not the case for most (not all) right now.
What Crutch Perks have solo survivors lost?
Kindred still exists, I'm not aware of any aura perks that have been nerfed. Spine Chill was buffed!
If solo survivors biggest problem now is offsetting other survivors... then the problem is survivors! That's what I've been saying.
You're just feeding into this negative feedback loop. "Oh other survivors are crap now so I'll refuse to play and sabotage their games"
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I usually use Prove Thyself, but no other survivors are doing gens anymore so I'm usually repairing them all by myself, getting the high score, and then getting the hatch.
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@scenekiller said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3082039#Comment_3082039
Nobody said they’re game breaking. People are not having fun, simple as that.
”But killers haven’t had fun for a while!” And that’s valid. But we don’t need to drastically swing the pendulum.
Solo queue is notoriously bad as is, and it’s just gotten worse. That doesn’t make every complaint a boosted survivor throwing a tantrum.
So what about 10% slower gens and a lack of being able to artificially extend chases is so different that it's made the game "not fun"?
The slightest inconvenience and the game is no longer worth playing?
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@scenekiller said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3082017#Comment_3082017
Your experience is not nonsense, but you completely invalidating everyone who’s experience isn’t yours down to “DH DS tantrums!!” IS nonsense
What are the complaints then?
- nerfing DS and DH
- Gen speeds
- Killer speeds
Anything else?
These things are not game breaking. But survivors refusing to play the damn game and sabotaging everything IS.
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@scenekiller said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3082002#Comment_3082002
For the 5000th time, most people aren’t even complaining about “DS and DH!!!” Your experience is not the be all end all, try actually reading peoples’ inputs before spouting off nonsense.
My experience is not nonsense. It's my experience. It's solo queue, and it's just the same as before besides other survivors behaviours.
Gens are 10% slower. Ten measly percent, and yet you're all refusing to repair them and screwing over the rest of the team, or evidently just refusing to play the game at all. It's petty, entitled and childish.
"B-b-b-but Thanataphobia!" was buffed by TWO PERCENT.
"Killers using slowdown!" All of which besides Thana and Overcharge were nerfed.
We even have super BT now with Off the Record, a ton of buffs to other survivor perks.
The game is not that different, but it IS becoming unbearable, because survivors are sabotaging it.
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Survivors having a tantrum over losing DS and DH.
As someone who never used those perks anyway, my experience has barely changed, and at least the survivor queues are decent. Working my way through the survivor tome challenges now and it's no different from before besides slightly slower gens, which is mostly due to survivors refusing to actually do them!
I've encountered no campers, maybe the odd tunnel (on Spirit tried to tunnel me but failed), a few Thana's but no Legion or Plague yet. But I have had other survivors give up, kill themselves on hook, DC, etc. The patch has no drastically altered the game, it's still 99% the same as it was before, except now you can't artificially extend chases with DH for distance. Boo hoo.
Just adjust and adapt, go back to playing normally. Fed up of other survivors ruining the game for the rest of the team, and now it's grown to a scale that it's screwing with queues and matchmaking too. Get over yourselves.
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@steezo_de said:
I played 4 hours straight tonight as killer and lost twice. The only time I really felt beat was with Huntress and it was against a SWF I normally go against. They all had fast medkits and somewhat normal SWF loadout including a couple DH. Otherwise, there was no real trend in the other lobbies besides maybe Prove Thyself and lots of DCs.
Lots of DCs indeed. I swear half of my killer wins are due to survivors having a tantrum at the first sign of difficulty, either DCing, killing themselves on hook or going afk, screwing over their team mates in the process.
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OtR overhyped?
As if BT hasn't been an essential meta perk for years. How could a personal BT that doesn't rely on another survivor, that comes with built in Iron Will and Distortion, not be a meta perk itself?
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2% buff.
Let's have some perspective here.
Survivors are having tantrums and throwing games, causing their own misery, over a 2% buff.
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@EntitySpawn said:
I love so many survivors mentality, people complain about dying but then wont bother doing the gens.
By the looks of it people will make up as many excuses as they can, fact is you shouldn't escape if your team arent doing gens and so many people are massively over reacting to 10extra seconds.
But it's always been the way of DBD getting 1 or more players not doing the main objective, its dumb but that's DBD... ignore the main objective, complain x is OP
Survivors are a special breed.
Most of my killer games that have ended in 4Ks, if I'm being honest only happen due to one or more survivors just giving up.
For example, I TP right to a survivor as Dredge with Lethal Pursuer, they're down in <30s. After they get unhooked they decided to AFK, obviously they're refusing to play against a Dredge becaue he's soooo OP.
The rest of the game goes pretty well, but the other 3 survivors still manage to get 4 gens repaired. Imagine how much better they would have done with a fourth team mate!
In the end I left AFK Feng alive with her crows, she moved periodically so I know she's still checking in. I decide to give her hatch to "kill em with kindness", she DCs literally as I drop her on the hatch.
I would have given one of the other survivors the hatch instead but they all refused to heal her, so they were no better.
Funny thing is, I have several stories just like this since the update.
Survivors and their pettiness are what is making survivor so unbearable to play.
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@terumisan said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3079480#Comment_3079480
No pop got deleted before it was 25% off of total generator progress now it's 20% off of it's current progress
Plus 2.5% base regression.
It's 22.5% of 90s, instead of 25% of 80s, which is virtually identical on a gen with >90% progress.
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Why would we stop using slowdown perks when slowdown perks still exist and still do something?
That's like saying "if you prevent camping, survivors will stop using exhaustion perks, we promise"
I swear some survivors think killers only exist to give them something to bully, and don't seem to understand that the killer is also trying to win.
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MMR doesn't degrade over time.
Your starting value from a clean slate would be 1100, and the soft cap is 1900. Though they said they can raise this as needed, so it might not be 1900 anymore.
Your killers have individual MMR's, but they can't be more than a certain amount apart, I believe 300ish? So if your best killer is at 1600, then you lowest can't be any lower than 1300.
You gain MMR for kills, and lose MMR for escapes, hatches are neutral. But it's more nuanced than that, if a survivor with a higher MMR than you escapes, you lose less than you would have if a survivor with lower MMR than you escapes. So it's relative to your opponents 'skill'.
The main thing though, is the match making. First it tries to match you with players within a certain range of you, and as time goes on that range expands to about 350 either way. So if you're at 1600, and you're waiting a long time, then you could be matched with anyone from 1250-1900... which is virtually anyone.
Throw in lobby dodgers, which then trigger backfilling that bypasses matchmaking altogether, and it's just a free for all.
MMR works, in theory, if there are enough players playing at every skill level at the same time. If that's not the case, it's pot luck.
The only thing is does do, is separate those at the very top, from matching against those at the very bottom. If you're in the middle, you can get either of them.
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@KayTwoAyy said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3079315#Comment_3079315
It's not a 3-gen just because 3 generators are on the same half of the map. ..and thats all I've seen it take to drag a game out in a tug-of-war where the killer just kicks a gen, gets one hit, then returns to patrolling.
The game usually ends when one survivor over extends and gets downed.
Depends on the map.
If it's Ormond / Suffocation Pit / Blood Lodge, then 'half of the map' is most certainly a 3 gen scenario.
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Without knowing exactly how it's calculated... I would assume it more than covers it.
Decrease something by 25%, and increase that by 20%, you end up with 90% of the original value. That is to say, 10% decreased item consumption.
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. Proximity Chat : I'm not for this, if only because I don't think players should be pressured into talking to complete strangers. Plus decent third party platform already exist, so I don't think BHVR are keen to waste time replicating it. Having the killer hear it is also problematic, what if SWF still use Discord? Now you'll have killers accusing SWF of circumventing proximity chat, which could actually be considered cheating.
An alternative could be preset text chat functions. Things like: "Killer is near!" "All clear by me" "Come here" and "I've got this!" You don't need to say all that much, these four phrases could cover most scenarios. have the appear next to your character portrait with a cooldown.
. Action Indicator : Legitimately great idea.
. Basekit Kindred : I think this might be a tad too strong, and I don't think BHVR are keen to add any aura effects as basekit.
An alternative could be an effect similar to Killer Instinct, but for survivors. Call it 'Sixth Sense' or something. You hold down a button while not performing an action, and you see a 'heartbeat' visual over where all the other survivors are. This gives you a direction, and if you move around you might be able to get a sense of distance, but its not a flat out aura.
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Now what do I do?
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Gonna have to go with these as well.
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My thoughts exactly.
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@M4dBoOmr said:
what i don't understand, is if the killer is undetectable, why should a hearing impaired person know that he's coming?
The proximity feature that scales with how close the killer is, does only apply to an active terror radius, so it doesn't work on an undetectable killer. But that's kinda besides the point because the perk still lights up when they're within 36 meters regardless.
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@MrMori said:
Guys chill out, the perk is bugged, it won't light up against undetectable killers once they fix the bug, only on direct line of sight.
Although I personally think it should just not work against undetectable killers at all, even with direct line of sight.
But at least now only GF and Myers are hurt. Pig, Wraith and Sadako will all do better.
Not to mention fewer people will run it since vault speed got removed.
It'll be fine.
I have a feeling this is why this version of Spine Chill made it through the PTB. Everyone assumed it was a bug.
It's not, it's a feature. An absolutely busted feature that makes it a hard counter against Ghostface and Myers.
Get notified when the killer is within a 36-mere range. Full Stop
You cannot realistically stalk anyone from 37-39 meters away, and if you do decide to waste those 5 minutes of your life watching the stalk meter slowly tick up a micrometer at a time, you're nowhere near close enough to capitalise on that stalk.
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@Mozic said:
Not to contribute to derailment but I'm getting a lot out of the Wraith/Nurse ship being regarded as canon as a byproduct of this thread.
As to the lingering piddly handwringing regarding revealing David as gay rather than creating a gay character from the ground up - why not both?
They didn't want the first LGBT+ character to be a new character, as it would come across as a cheap after thought. "Oh we need a gay character? Lets just make the next new one gay, they can be the token gay!"
So making an existing character gay, with believable lore to back it up, was their gesture to say "see, we're not doing this just tick a box, we want to do it right."
From hereon out though, they could make new characters LGBT+, the gesture has already been made.
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@Moxie said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3078544#Comment_3078544
Am I seeing zero change between 4 and 5 stacks? How does that work?
Rounding. I don't think players can discern a 0.05s difference. 0.1s just barely registers.
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@Moxie said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3078424#Comment_3078424
Except you get the same value at 6 stacks now that you got at 8 stacks pre-patch. Only after 6 is it diminished value.
This makes it even more valuable then I previously assessed.
Not quite, see the values I posted above. It's gains the old 8 stack value at 7 stacks, one stack difference.
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- "Save the Best for Last should probably be toned downed so its speed boost at 8 tokens combined with the new base game recovery speed ends up being the same net recovery speed as it was at 8 tokens pre-patch. (I.e. something like at 8 tokens it is about 40% boost on top instead of 50%.) The perk was already pretty popular pre-patch and the unchanged settings are leading to it being probably just slightly too fast I think. Going back to the old net benefit would still keep Save the Best for Last as popular as it used to be without it being overly used."
STBFL doesn't now give a 50% reduction, because it's not a case of it being 10% + 40%.
The base cooldown is now 1.8s instead of 2.0s, which means every % reduction to that is less effective than before. 40% of 1.8s is less than 40% of 2.0
As you can, the cooldown starts 0.2s quicker but at 5 stacks and up, the reduction is only 0.1s.
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@Mozic said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3078424#Comment_3078424
This was my first thought; STBFL at 8 stacks was already nearly inescapable.
My guess is that it reaches its signature oppressive state at fewer stacks than it did before.
I guess at 4 stacks you have the same speed you did at 6 stacks, which isn't to be sniffed at. Every stack after that is diminished though.
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How about survivors who are unhooked start with a 99'ed wiggle meter, that decays over time? Say 99-0 in 30 seconds.
This could kinda work like a basekit DS, but it would be much more manageable, countered by things like Iron Grasp and Mad Grit, and of course it would more or less scale with the distance a survivor runs from the hook. if you downed them exactly 5.1s after they were unhooked, they be as close to the hook as possible, which would likely be just about the right time to get them to that hook with whatever wiggle meter they have remaining, basically making the timing tighter, but still possible to mess up or sabotage via body blocking.
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@Neyar said:
I'm not sure of the purpose of breakable windows. Window vaulting and pallets are the only terrain that survivors can traverse faster than killers by default. It will never be in the interest of the killer to open a breakable window intentionally.
It'd be like if basement hooks only spawned if survivors agreed unanimously in the match lobby. Might as well delete them.
They mean it's by default a window, and you break it to make it a doorway.
But all that is, is a pallet that's already down. A pallet that starts off dropped, all that's doing is robbing survivors of a chance to stun the killer.
Frankly, having a breakable door next to a window, like the Saloon, already accomplishes this change.
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@Moxie said:
Yeah STBFL isn't completely broken right now at all with the base hit CD reduction.
I can't imagine why Killer mains are running this perk every game. A mystery to be sure.
Technically any attack cooldown and action speed buffs are less effective now, as x% of 1.8s is less than x% of 2s.
8 stacks of STBFL would have reduced a 2s cooldown to 1.2s. A 0.8s reduction.
Now 8 stacks of STBFL reduce a 1.8s cooldown to 1.1s. A 0.7s reduction.
Is 1.1s that much better than 1.2s?
If these perks are strong now, then they were still strong before.
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@rvzrvzrvz said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3078358#Comment_3078358
More like 80%, didn't lost any match since update playing mostly wraith and clown, I don't even run slowdowns except deadlock...
how anyone can think this patch is good ? even if you're biased and never play survivor you still need people to play against, it's far from balanced atm
I'm in a similar boat as killer, but I've also escaped about 50% of my survivor games since the update, sometimes as the last remaining survivor, sometimes multiple escapes, so...
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@AReallyBoredHuman said:
The kill rates are definitely going to increase that's all I know, if I had to guess it would be a 70% kill rate on average at least for the first day/week.
I can see a 70% kill rate for this first week, settling to 60% once players and MMR adjust. Which sounds about fair.
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Halloween is a tricky license. Most of the films are owned by different license holders, and the only one BHVR has a deal with is the very first movie.
Bringing in the other license holders into that deal would not only be tricky to secure, but would also mean each license holder getting a cut, which would make it increasingly more expensive for BHVR.
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@Teslaboi said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3078251#Comment_3078251
Honestly, having the stun reverted would be fin by my book too. As for gen speeds, too early to tell for me.
Yeah, I understand there are people who do it specifically to be un-fun, but those players shouldn't also win as a result in my opinion. I also agree there are legitimate scenarios to camp and tunnel, but at the moment, at least to me, if feels like it can be too easy too tunnel in some instances. Again, I could be completely wrong, I'm mostly just pitching ideas.
Camping is a whole other story and I don't know how to fix that issue unfortunately.
5s stun on DS would be fine really. The main issue of it being active at end game is gone, it's fixed.
I'd also be in favour of removing the ability to grab survivors from unhook attempts. This doesn't really add anything to the game, it's another standoff scenario where neither survivor nor killer wants to be the first to act. Without this as an option, the killer would just be forced to whack you as fast as possible, which simultaneous raises the stakes for both sides away from any stand-off mechanic, and makes a hook trade far more likely.
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@SekiSeki said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3078128#Comment_3078128
Alright, what about this change?
Conspicuous Action Change:
Added being healed one health state to list of conspicuous actions.
I feel like that should have been a thing anyway.
For one, that wouldn't prevent the case of your Perseverance effect being infinitely abuseable for injured survivors.
Secondly, while this would be fair for Off the Record, I don't think it would be fair for DS. Another survivor could use For the People on you, which for OtR is fine, either way you're gaining a health state. But for DS, that activates on pick up, or on grab. You have no control over another survivor healing you, and if they do, you can no longer jump in a locker to force a DS.
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@Teslaboi said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3078173#Comment_3078173
Fair points brought up in return, in my honest opinion the only time camping/tunneling is fair is once the exit gates are powered, the killer has basically lost all generators, and thus, lost all objectives besides hooks that are worth defending. There might be some niche situations aside from that but I think (I may also be wrong) at the moment this could be a good idea moving forward.
Camping:
> When the survivors all rush the hook as you're hooking.
> When you leave the hook, find a survivor, and they run you back to the hook.
> When you're chasing a survivor nearby the hook, and they loop you around it.
> When you're leaving the hook and spot a survivor approaching, maybe they're being stealthy, maybe not, either way you've seen them.
> When the survivor is hooked in the middle of a three gen, placing all potential objectives in one small area.
> When two survivors are flanking you to bait you into leaving the hook so one can go for the rescue.
All cases where camping is the survivors fault, and usually due to survivors being headstrong and arrogant, because they either know they can't be touched, or because they feel entitled to an unhook and if they don't get it it's because the killer is playing "unfairly" which justifies their actions.
Tunnelling:
> When a survivor is unhooked but the unhooker vanishes and the unhooked survivor runs towards you, accidentally or not.
> When the unhooked survivor intentionally body blocks you.
> When a recently unhooked survivor accidentally crosses your path later on, and you don't see any other survivors.
> When a recently unhooked survivor wants to use DS so they pester you to chase them and down them.
All cases where tunnelling is not the killers fault.
Survivors tend to forget just how much control they have over the game, when it is their actions and mistakes that dictate what opportunities the killer has.
Then you have the end-game scenarios. Where the killer has no other objectives but the hooked survivor, so they camp, or the unhooked survivor is the only injured survivor, so they tunnel.
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@Teslaboi said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3078117#Comment_3078117
I see no reason as to why we can't have both be implemented, no? There should be perks or incentives for killers to not play in an Un-fun way, likewise it should be very punishing if you do, if the strategy as a whole is unviable no one that wants to win would do it, no?
That's a fair point. The presence of DS and OtR aren't bad in themselves. But they don't prevent camping and tunnelling. The idea that these perks and perks like them need to be stronger to prevent camping and tunnelling is the fallacy, which just propagates the arms race.
It ultimately comes down to the fact that camping and tunnelling are not 100% always a toxic, unfair tactic. Sometimes they are valid moves for the killer to make. So what happens when a valid camping situation gets hit with an anti-camping sledghammer? Killers find it unfair, complain, the back and forth continues.
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@MrMori said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3078117#Comment_3078117
Another tool survivors have to punish camping and tunneling is info. Basekit kindred would be amazing in average to high MMR games. Low MMR players wouldnt know what to do with the info, but that's a skill issue, and the killers they face aren't good.
That I agree with. More info for survivors can only be good, because at a point it becomes superfluous for SWF, while still benefitting solos.
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Lock the topic now mods.
Obviously this fanbase is too homophobic to be able to discuss this with civility.
And I'm fed up of being a 'topic of debate'.
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@bigdaddyjeff said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3078096#Comment_3078096
You're definitely a new player and don't understand this game's matchmaking. Ranks were far better than mmr. Mmr doesn't even work.
No I'm not. I experienced rank based matchmaking. It was awful. You're looking through rose-tinted spectacles and following the bandwagon.
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Perseverance is the worst idea I've ever heard.
Permanent, basekit DS... now survivors really are literally invincible. Pair it with No Mither and survivors could very easily take the entire game hostage.
Gift of Pain is an anti-camp/anti-tunnel perk, which is already not meta, so why would you want to nerf it? Buff it!
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Tunnelling and Camping are killer choices and behaviours.
Tools for survivors to punish these choices are not the best way to deal with them as it just becomes an arms race. As is apparent with every other survivor tool against camping/tunnelling, killers determined to camp and tunnel will just eat through them. What's more, is it just convinces killers to camp and tunnel even more. Why deal with an anti-tunnel perk like DS when you can eliminate them with a single hook? Survivor has Off the Record? Well I'll hit them to trigger it, then they don't have it anymore, so I'll hit them again!
The best anti-camp and anti-tunnel tools have and will always be; effective killer perks that incentivise not camping/tunnelling.
BBQ & Chilli (RIP)
Devour Hope
Make Your Choice
Pain Resolution before this update... (the info was infinitely more valuable than the regression, they nerfed the wrong part)
Even Ruin, because in order to get value out of it you have to actually pressure gens.
Perks that hinder survivors after being rescued, like Gift of Pain. If this perk was strong enough, it might be able to compete with the likes of Thanatophobia, and then killers would be incentivised to allow unhooks to happen.
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No it's not the end, it's just a load of people overreacting who don't want to adapt to change.
Luckily we now have an MMR system that will adjust players up or down depending on if they're actually winning/losing too much.