Seiko300
Seiko300
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@YaiPa said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1152337#Comment_1152337
oh well, it seems that our goals are different. You're much more interested in the context and the appearance of the chapters and the characters, I tend to look for the substance. Now I understand, you could've said it before, or I should have understood it instantly, idk.
Well, I'm glad we can at least understand each others perspectives ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ I try to look at the characters as a whole in their entirety rather than boiling them down completely to a singular aspect of them. I suppose both are valid perspectives
gg
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@YaiPa said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1152121#Comment_1152121
Having 100+ champions it's impossible not to have similarities, while with 15 killer completely recycling ideas is a little bit different, because only 2 killers can stalk, whilst from what you said those champions revolve around "trademark mechanics", which isn't stalk's case, it's the case of pallet kicking or vaulting, as you prev said.
yeah, I think unoriginality (or adding on enough slight changes and variations on top of each characters until eventually we end up with basically a worse or better variation) a bad thing for this game, also, you didn't even said why it should be a good thing, just because R6 sell? because that's not the reason why it sell...
the "core basic mechanics that make the game what it is" aren't not related to the killers power, rather on the killer role.
It's not a bad thing because it sells. Not just R6 but DBD, and though League is a Free game millions of its playerbase sink actual money into the game for skins for their favorite characters. The implication here is that because it sells it is good, because you wouldn't buy something if it was bad. This logic might have been a bit shaky if it weren't for the fact that all of these are video games. Unlike a movie where ticket sales don't necessarily reflect the quality of a the film, Video games track playerbase numbers, and all three titles of which I mentioned or used as an example of have maintained or increased their playerbase numbers alongside their sales as the years have gone by. Regardless of your personal opinion or anyone's personal opinion for that matter, from a business standpoint all these titles are major success stories.
If you don't like that point (well too bad, numbers don't lie) I can hit you from a different angle:
If your judgement of originality is based solely on gameplay and gameplay mechanics then you are very simply going to have a bad time. Every gameplay mechanic at its core is based on the exact same type of code and software, and are balanced around the exact same circumstances and scenarios, physics, and controls. Gameplay mechanics in their very most basic forms and incarnations are completely unoriginal and hoping for something that departs from the core concept is nothing more than an unrealistic fantasy. Pining for anything more would be completely all for naught.
Where the fun comes from is the characterization. It doesn't matter to me if the Deathslinger's Redeemer is "Demogorgon's power with extra steps" if I see that I'm playing a bad ass Western Cowboy who is shooting a harpoon gun and dragging the resisting bodies of struggling survivors toward me.
To the same token, I don't care if The Oni is Hillbilly V2 if I'm covered in a violently glowing red aura, roaring a bloodthirsty war cry as I thunderously careen across the map and body ######### slam my target into the ground, smashing them into the dirt over and over with a giant wooden club covered in metal.
Originality comes from the characters themselves, not the abilities or powers they are capable of. It is the stories told through the clothes a character wears from a Doctor's uniform with the sleeves torn off, to an ill fitting Ringmaster's outfit that clearly belonged to someone else, their bodies and body types from bear traps and various bits of metal stuck through the shoulder and torso, to cleanly cut and severed limbs suspended in the air still connected by an invisible force, to the theme music that characterizes the individuals from the sharp notes of a piano behind a white emotionless mask, or the synth waves over the heavy footsteps of a faceless creature.
The fact that I can describe each of these characters without providing names and it's likely you would still understand who they were from your own experience proves their individuality and originality. It's about the experience of what it would be like to be a 7 foot Russian throwing axes, vs. a 5 foot teen wielding a knife as a whole, rather than dwelling on the specifics of how, because in truth the specifics of how in most scenarios are extremely underwhelming. Appreciate it for what it is, not trying to micromanage what you think it should be.
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I firmly believe this is true facts
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@Foxfire47 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1151856#Comment_1151856
She was the girl who sold her bath water and was all over game news sites because of it last year.
Lol I remember. So this is one of those threads...
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@YaiPa said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1151893#Comment_1151893
so oni is not just a better late game billy?
ghostface isn't Myers 2.0?
Freddy isn't just a better clown?
demogorgon isn't just pig with a better and more reliable dash + teleport?
I never said that those statements weren't true. Quite the opposite: I said you're being too narrow minded because that's how most every character in most every game is. You add on enough slight changes and variations on top of each other and eventually you'll end up with a different character. Because at the end of the day each character has the same end goal so unless you're playing an entirely different game there's no reason to be completely different. If you want I can take your original list and take it a step further adding on a few more for you: The Oni is Myers, Hillbilly is Leatherface, The Hag is Nurse, The Wraith is Spirit, Deathslinger is Huntress, etc.
You're also framing it like it's a bad thing when it's not. Rainbow Six Siege does the exact same thing, and I could rattle off plenty of names of operators just like you did: Kaid is Bandit, Wamai is Jager, Kali is glaz, Nokk is just Caveira / Vigil, Zofia is Ash, Iana is Alibi, Clash is Montagne, and so on and so forth. The only difference being Rainbow has been out for a year longer than Dead By Daylight and was made by Ubisoft so they had access to many more resources allowing them to create many, many, many more characters who are the same as previous ones
I can give you another example that League of Legends is a game with over 100+ champions. Do you honestly mean to tell me you expect each and every single one of them to be entirely, completely, and utterly unique in every possible sense? All of them have abilities that revolve around certain trademark mechanics like Knocking enemies up, pulling enemies in, firing a ranged shot, Teleporting, turning invisible, Increasing attack speed, slowing enemies down, and so on and so forth on and on and on.
You know what doesn't change? Each of these games are successful, in their own right, in their own genres. Because at the end of the day the core basic mechanics that make the game what it is, are fun or quality enough that they attract a significant number of persons to sustain the game for years after its initial release. And new content which only makes slight variations or changes to the original concepts are entirely acceptable.
The fact that you couldn't see this bigger picture before is what made that kind of statement a weak train of thought, because it's an obvious statement. So obvious that it becomes a redundant one
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@OtakuBurrito said:
IDK if it's his music that drowns out his terror radius and is simultaneously extremely quiet compared to everyone else. I literally have my sound on 200 and still can't hear him until he's right up on me.
I honestly can't hear his heart beat most of the time because of his music and his music is low asf but takes over everything.
Is anyone else experiencing this issue?
I don't know about you but I haven't had any issues so far. It's just that Deathslinger has a much smaller terror radius than you would expect at 24 meters. If they're using TR reducing perks you can expect he'd be comparable to a Myers. Except with a gun. With a spear. That pulls you towards him.
@Tactless_Ninja said:
He's a big hulking 7 foot tall cowboy. Just use your eyes?
You been breaking his totems? Because ya'll seem to be Oblivious.
Because seeing a 7 foot tall cowboy wearing brown clothes (with perks that drastically reduce his terror radius) moving around in 8 foot tall corn of similar color is easy. Okbuddy.
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I like how OP has no upvotes but the very first comment which was a person disagreeing and just flat out saying "no" has six upvotes.
I think that says it all
@YaiPa said:
every new killer released last year is basically a bootleg of another killer, some are better, some are worse.
Also, this is a pretty weak train of thought. By that logic I can just say that every killer is the same as the other because they all can break pallets, vault windows, regress generators, hit survivors using m1, hook survivors 3 times to sacrifice them, and use an ability to aid them in that process.
In the same way that I guess all shooter games are the same because all you do is pick up a gun or other ranged weapon and shoot someone else from a distance. Etc.
???
Hello?? These are just game mechanics that need to be consistent to work together in cohesion. If you don't like it, I guess don't play video games at all???? Are people just dumb around these parts?
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I'd like to think we did a pretty good job so far
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Who?
Also, you didn't even make a poll
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I don't know about getting a full cosmetic for reaching rank 1, I think the pride and the achievement might be enough,
But I will say I'm gonna lose my ######### if BHVR doesn't implement some kind of rewards for raising Devotion level, like BRUH. That level is a true testament to how dedicated a player you are and you should be rewarded for playing that much. I don't know how you should be rewarded or with what but I know it needs to freakin happen
Rewarded with Auric Cells maybe even, since you only raise devotion level a few times it's not like BHVR would be losing all that much (they have so many auric cell exclusive cosmetics). Or if you don't want to be giving out free cells to dedicated players, make a new currency you ONLY ever get when raising devotion level, and this currency could unlock any 1 cosmetic set or something. If neither of those options work, just give a big number of Iridescent shards
Create devotion cosmetic pieces, raise the bloodpoint cap the higher your devotion level, hell even just straight bloodpoints (that's gotta be seriously the most lame option but hey it's something) just anything.
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As a Ghostface main normally I would absolutely and wholeheartedly put my vote for Ghostface without a second thought, however,
The fact that you are "relatively new" puts me off a little bit, Ghostface is both really fun and truly viable all the way up into red ranks (scaring the pants off survivors is an added bonus) but of the two, he's more difficult to use I won't lie. He's the only stealth killer that actually (ironically) requires you to be stealthy, and this can trip some players up who really don't know how to use him, his most effective perk combos, etc.
Myers is much more new friendly. While you won't have undetectable levels of stealth outside of EW1 (and let's be honest you're not going to be in EW1 for very long) your reduced terror radius in EW2 allows you to engage survivors much closer than other killers with a standard 32 meter terror radius. The exposed affect is applied universally to all survivors, you get faster vaults through windows, an increased lunge, a lot of good stuff to give a new guy who's handling the ropes.
This however, doesn't mean he's any better it just means he's easier to use. At the end of the day Ghostface has a much easier time sneaking up on survivors than Myers. Ghostface has an average height so he's less visible naturally, and also has the ability to crouch as well so if you know where survivors are you can employ that as you get closer to be ultra sneaky. The exposed effect Ghostface uses pops off much more quickly than Myers does and though it is not universally applied, he can stalk multiple people at the same time and you can end up exposing multiple at once just like myers only quicker. Unlike Myers you don't have to be worried about running out of evil to drain out of survivors and you can expose them as many times as you want throughout the match as necessary. He can bounce between survivors really easily because of the undetectable status effect and this is his main strength, the expose is really just the cherry on top that makes him even better. The only problem is that you can get kicked out of night shroud if a survivor sees you and stares at you, and if you're not quick to react to get behind cover you'll lose access to your power completely. This is why he takes more skill to use
You are right though, Myers overall does have better perks than Ghostface I won't lie. Although I wouldn't underestimate Thrilling Tremors for Ghostface, it's a very, very good utility perk. I'm All Ears is actually a lot more decent than you would think, and Furtive Chase has it's own uses (I just went up against a Deathslinger today who was using Furtive Chase, needless to say it was a very deadly combination. On the other hand however, he was using Save The Best For Last in the same build which is a perk from Myers so back to square 1).
Although I don't know what you mean by "better aesthetic" considering Myers only has access to a total of 4 cosmetics (and three of them are different weapons). He looks the same all the time, although it is a classic look. Ghostface has got more than 10 cosmetics from four different outfits (if you count the prestige outfit) make that five if you've seen the new outfit that people found datamining in the files. I have much more love for Ghostface than I do Myers, but ain't nothing wrong with the classics.
At the end of the day I could go back and forth awhile, so to keep myself from doing that I'd just say get both. Myers would be a great start to introduce you to the concepts of stealth, what perks work in conjunction, how stalking works, etc. and after a bit more experience upgrade to Ghostface I'd say.
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LMFAO I like how more than 70% (currently) of people who responded to the poll chose the option you clearly didn't want people selecting by using language like "I have no life so I need to annoy everyone else"
Get ######### on buddy. The more people introduce these biased polls the more I relish in disappointing them by selecting the answer that they don't want to hear but is still ######### right. If you DC too many times, serves you right for getting a penalty, if you get heated playing the game take a break and play Civ 6 or something lol
(only real gamers will recognize that reference)
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@Rezblaze said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1148758#Comment_1148758
Eh. I think you mistake something being convenient with being boring. Idk about you but I don't have fun having to force quit a chase and grab a trap, or not maximizing my efficiency with where I travel just because the killer has a bad gimmick.
I've been trying to main trapper. He is super satisfying to play but I will say one of the most frustrating things is the hard limit of carrying traps.
It also sounds like you've never had someone step in a trap a bit too far and have them escape first try in front of you. Hag and Freddy don't rely on RNG. Trapper does.
...That's all you got out of that whole thing? Bruh.
"It also sounds like you've never had someone step in a trap a bit too far and have them escape first try in front of you. Hag and Freddy don't rely on RNG. Trapper does."
You make it sound like I just got the game yesterday.
And I mean sure, you could increase the amount of traps Trapper can hold at one time at base from 1 - 2 and then make the addons increase even further to allow him to hold 3 with the Trapper Sack 4 with the Trapper Bag and Stitched Bag add ons. But that's a pretty surface level issue if I'm honest and I try to dig a lot, lot deeper than that with my response. You just kinda said "Eh" and ignored most of the whole thing...
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@IAmShadowZzz said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1148788#Comment_1148788
Sadly I forgot to add pennywise to the list. But I agree, and would love to see him implemented into the game. I just don't know if they would do it or not since we already have the Clown. I know that they're two completely different people and have different powers, I just don't know if they would have two different types of clowns in the game or not. Although they have Billy and Leatherface who are a lot alike, so I guess it could be possible.
Hillbilly and Leatherface are prime examples of characters with similar themes or looks but function entirely differently.
On the same note people draw some comparisons between Legion and Ghostface. People thought Legion was actually BHVR's attempt to "replace" Ghostface since they couldn't get him in, but of course that was just a rumor and Ghostface pulled through (Thank God)
I know he's kind of unpopular amongst the DBD community, people don't care for him as much, but a lot of people still want Jason Voorhees to make it in, it would be pretty huge for DBD and get a lot of people who haven't paid too much attention to DBD outside of our community to pay attention then. But people always draw comparisons between Trapper and Jason
Long story short, BHVR having a similar original killer to a popular license is nothing new, and The Clown / Pennywise are far from the first characters to be compared. Trust me it's nothing to worry about, and it sure as hell would never stop the dev team if they can secure the IT license, in an interview with Mathieu Cote (Game Director of DBD [also the guy who seeks out these licenses]) Pennywise is his dream license to obtain for Dead By Daylight as of now.
So we're talking support from both the community, and the highest positions in the dev team for that license. It's just up to I guess Stephen King the author..? I'm really not sure how that works if the film license is separate from the creative license, something, something... it's pretty complicated so I hear. As licenses tend to be, so what's new in that department really
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You forgot secret option number 5... COSMETICS (aka iridescent shards)
I have as much fun as playing DBD as the next guy / gal over, but I won't lie a chunk of my motivation is the grind. I was a fiend for bloodpoints before the store came out, then I was a fiend for iridescent shards after the store came out, and now I'm a fiend for Rift Fragments now that the Archives are out.
Whatever gets me cosmetics without paying a dime (the archives roll over, so consider it a long-term investment [so I guess I mean whatever gets me cosmetics while paying the least amount of dimes]) you already know I be saving up my shards for the best of the best cosmetics that cost 21,600. Right now I've been working my way through every single free-to-earn cosmetic Ace Visconti has, and there's only one left now... The High Roller. After that I haven't considered where my shards will go next 🤔 probably some killer cosmetics, something for the Oni or Clown.. Maybe the Trapper, or Joey and Susie for legion. The Doctor, The Hillbilly has got some cool stuff... actually maybe the Deathslinger I haven't seen what he's got yet though.
Then after a few killer cosmetics probably something for Jeff Johansson, David King, Kate Denson perhaps...
I'm getting this whole thing plotted out.
And then I won't lie I'll get some cosmetics for licensed characters. As a Ghostface main I've already copped the three that he's got and I'm ready and waiting on the fourth.. other than him I've got the Last-Minute Babysitter for Steve and the cosmetics for Ash look really tempting. Specifically the Finale, but the other ones are pretty decent too, Ash Vs. Evil Dead was a great show. I hope more come out for him cause he sported plenty of looks throughout the show's runtime like the red (technically maroon) leather jacket he wears in episode 1
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Might be into that 6ft+ Russian woman thing tho...
I get the feeling Huntress might be hiding more than she lets on beneath that sweater and skirt.. ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)
..Susie = close second though, might be into some kinky stuff considering the crowd she hangs around.. Also can't get over the fact she frequently puts her hands behind her back and lifts her leg a little bit lol
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I don't see Pennywise on this list and it makes me sad, though even if he was on the list I still would have gone with my original response.
For me there are only three extremely likely candidates:
Candyman - The movie release coinciding with around the same date as the next chapter's release is extremely suspicious and makes it too perfect an opportunity to pass up.
Pennywise - Capitalizing on the popularity the character has seen due to the release of It and the recently released It Chapter 2, also a character the community has long asked for
Pinhead - the recent teaser trailer for chapter 15 completely baited the entire community and the response has been overwhelming support for Pinheads inclusion into the roster. Think about the teaser for Chapter 15 as a teaser for 2 chapters, Chapter 15 AND Chapter 16 🤔
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I don't want to change the core of Trapper though, even though it sucks having to go across the map to fetch a trap at the other end, it makes him distinctive. (This could also be easily remedied by straight up not allowing traps to spawn on the very edges of the map IE Swamp maps [ugh])
Might be an unpopular opinion, but to me it makes the traps feel more weighty, more significant and permanent than the "traps" The Hag and Freddy "carry" around. And that's because they are, they deal damage and pin a survivor in place which isn't outdated in the slightest, it provides map pressure and cuts off loops (even if a survivor knows they are there) and when it works it's really viable.
Not to mention, if we're thinking long term keeping the Trapper as he is rather than streamlining his ability to be the exact same (which is always boring) as the other killers paves the way to create new characters like the Trapper instead of like Freddy and Hag. Killers who have belongings spread out across the map that they need to pick up along the way but to compensate have significant game changing effects.
Is it perfect? No, but I don't think the core design needs to be changed itself, I really don't like the idea of Trapper starting out with all his traps, being the first killer to ever exist has given a lot of people in the community (including myself) a lot of time to think about how the Trapper could be better. Here are a few of my ideas:
Trap Spawn locations
Change trap spawns, they're useless at the edges of the map to the point where you will never realistically have enough time to pick one or two up. Leaving you at a permanent disadvantage because you don't have access to the full scale of your ability, scatter them closer around the map's center or around generators. Since your whole job as killer in the early game is to slow down and stop as much generator progress and completion, the generators are areas you will likely pass through or close by so it would be really smart to make it more likely for traps to spawn in their vicinity.
Buffing the power itself
To compensate for the weaknesses of the bear trap IE the amount of time it takes to find a trap, pick it up, and place it in a viable are, as well as being far too easy for Survivors to see traps and disable them outright, it should be more powerful in certain aspects. The latter would be the part of the ability I would make changes to. In comparison to Trappers trapping counterparts, Hag's traps can be disabled even more easily but they 1. require the use of a flashlight and 2. are extremely difficult to spot (slightly easier on some maps than others), and Freddy's traps can never be disabled at all, though they can be "inactive" as long as a survivor is awake.
What I would do is make it more of a risk to disable a trap. It's always confused me why survivors are so easily able to disarm traps so precisely without any risk to themselves. I don't know about you, but I'd freak the ######### out if you told me I had to stick my hand inside a bear trap to trigger it's trigger mechanism to close it, and it's pretty likely my hand would get caught. This is exactly how Trapper's traps should act in the game, they should ALWAYS be a risk whenever they're open, a risk to step in but also a risk to disarm.
Bloody coil integration
Currently Trapper has a really great Ultra rare add-on which injures healthy survivors who disarm traps. What I'm saying is integrate a less powerful version of this addon into Trapper's base kit. Make it a 25% or even lower say 20, 15, or even a 10% chance for a healthy survivor to become injured whenever disarming Trapper's traps. If you're not a fan of that, you could instead make it a 33% chance for a tremendously difficult skill check to pop up, if you miss the tremendously difficult skillcheck the trap will snap shut and injure any healthy survivors.
The Ultra rare add on would still be a good option to use, because it changes this from being RNG to a guarantee that healthy survivors will be injured if they try to disarm a trap. However, it wouldn't be as good / useful anymore (at least not as good as ultra rares should be) since it would be slightly integrated into his kit so in response to this change it would receive some minor buffs.
Bloody Coil buffs (in response to base kit integration):
Moderately decreases the repair speed of Survivors who have disarmed a trap for 120 seconds, disarming a trap will cause a survivor to yell and reveal their location for 3 seconds
These are just some logical effects that I thought would make sense with the bloody coil, if you're getting injured by a trap because you stuck your hand into it, it doesn't make the most sense that you would be able to use that same hand to then perfectly repair a complex piece of machinery like a generator. Also, getting your hand caught in a bear trap I think would make anyone yell in pain so that makes sense as well (provides the same effect as having your ankle caught in the trap).
Trap visibility
I would also buff how visible the traps themselves actually are, in comparison to the Hag scrawls in the dirt or the pools of blood Freddy creates (which can be perfectly hidden under grass and are completely invisible [but inactive] while you're awake) the Trapper's Traps stick out like a sore thumb. I would make the Logwood Dye or Tar bottle the base coloration of the trap, and then buff those add-ons in response to make the Traps even darker.
The idea here is that the Traps should be imposing and intimidating devices, and you should never be completely calm and at ease when disarming a beartrap.
The Trial Warmup
Finally the last thing I would do is incorporate Scott Jund's "Trial Warmup" idea. This was an idea Scott Jund created a couple weeks ago that while it does benefit all killers (especially ones who have poor map mobility and map pressure in early game like the Clown) specifically benefits trapping killers who require setup time to be effective. IE The Hag, Freddy, and most especially and importantly the Trapper.
The basic way that it works is the same way the Endgame Collapse speeds up the end of a trial or match, The "Trial Warmup" slows down the beginning of the match and prevents survivors from popping 3 generators in 120 seconds by which time a killer may not have even engaged in a single chase yet. At the beginning of a trial Survivors are under a repair speed debuff of something really heavy or drastic, at minimum 50% but perhaps something like 75% slower than normal repair speed. The Trial Warmup ends when 1 of 3 conditions have been met: A chase has been initiated between a killer or survivor, a survivor's healthstate has changed from healthy to injured, or a killer come in contact with a survivor by a proximity of 4 meters.
Here is the original video from Scott Jund describing it in more detail (there are also some great comments below this video of people adding on great ideas like deactivating all perks while the Trial Warmup is in progress, so read those too)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LVnWIe-5LcsConcluding
Between all of these ideas I think there's plenty of room for both the Trapper (and game) to grow and develop without requiring a change to his core design. That's all I got for now
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Is this even a contest? How can you beat the Belly Boi and his loud Boisterous laughs
I love how it's not just laughs either, but it could flow really quickly into a fit of coughing and vice versa. That's character right there
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When it comes to characters I like to look at them primarily by their archetype, their characteristics and traits, who they represent. Considering just the female characters:
Meg - The Athlete
Claudette - The Nerd
Nea - The Rebel
Laurie Strode - The Final Girl
Feng Min - The Gamer
Kate Denson - The Free Spirit
Jane Romero - The Celebrity
Nancy Wheeler - Amateur Investigative Reporter
Yui - The Streetracer (not super clear cut an archetype, but I suppose your character who is super into cars, motorcycles, and other vehicles..)
Zarina - The Documentarian (also not as clear cut an archetype, but I haven't read her lore yet)
Out of all of them I've always liked Kate's archetype the best, I guess because she's a representation of the exact opposite of the dark, grim, gritty reality of their situation. Her role in the game is quite literally "The Hopeful Songbird" and I love how she's described:
"A ray of sunshine illuminated this cold and gray place ... [but] to remain so positive and upbeat in such a place would require a will of iron. Perhaps less a ray of sunshine then, but a bolt of lightning? Brilliant light and great power that could split the world in two.'' -Unknown (Potentially Benedict Baker)
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The Clown theme perfectly encapsulates why I love the character as much as I do. From the music, to his aesthetic & how he looks, even his general mannerisms (constant coughing) all make for this extremely unique Clown killer. Especially the subtle details like how most of his clothes don't actually fit him, and it's implied that he killed a ringmaster (who was much smaller than him) and stole his clothes which is why they're so much smaller.
As great as his lore and different cosmetic pieces are though, they're just not enough to cover up the fact he sucks gameplay wise :( I'd play him so much more if he was better.
On the other hand however, Community roasts him too hard for how terrible a killer he is. Give credit where credit is due, the art department at BHVR knocks it out of the ######### park every goddamn time (and I don't think anybody would dispute that) but especially with the Clown, they have a lot to be proud of.
And back to the music, I think it holds a lot of weight for the actual theme of the chapter itself, people were disappointed at the time we didn't get to see a creepy Funhouse map, or a carnival map (I still think there is potential to see these on the shared realm between the Clown and Nurse) so the Theme really pulls a lot of the weight to make you feel the carnival aspect of the character.
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Absolutely not.
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@Esskay said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1141247#Comment_1141247
Well isn't Zarina sorta a lot like Nancy then? I know she is a filmmaker rather then a journalist but they are incredibly similar.
I'd like if Randy and Sidney come into the game though if I were to choose one, I'd say Sidney especially seeing how it plays with the fact that no matter how far Sidney tries to run from her demons, they still follow her. She moves away, she lives in the secure house, she stops the Stab franchise from continuing her story, the entire plot of Scream 4 etc, I think the fact that even after death/ going into the entity's realm she still is haunted by her past.
Randy died very early in the franchise so is nowhere near as iconic, and I'd argue that his archetype is just a subsection of a nerd being a film nerd (Scream 2 he was in film studies at uni talking about The Godfather). Personally I'd also disagree and say that Dwight is more of the nerd despite his lore saying he's a nervous leader due to his complexion, hobbies and his history of being bullied. Claudette I think is more of a caring enviornmentalist or basing off her lore, someone just wanting to fit in which is different to a nerd.
Journalist archetype
This is something that bugs me a little bit and I wrote about awhile ago, the investigative journalist archetype is something that feels a bit overplayed / overdone in Dead By Daylight. It makes for a perfect story in horror movies "The investigative journalist won't stop at anything to find a good story, but she bites off more than she can chew after uncovering a dark secret..." so when Dead By Daylight is an amalgamation of all these different horror stories and many of them have the same investigative journalist role you can see how they might end up with more of that than any other type of character. This sticks out all the more when BHVR for the most part, has done an absolutely fantastic job at creating unique characters with every single new chapter release after 3 years (4th anniversary will be in June) and 15 chapter releases.
If you go back even further Dead By Daylight's entire lore hinges on this character archetype and the one who started it all was Benedict Baker who was conducting an investigation into the Entity and the abandoned ghost town of Weeks.
My point being, it's not a good thing. We don't want to see repeated character archetypes and just because two characters might share similarities doesn't make free real estate to continue repeating characters and stories. It makes them the exception rather than the rule, and I think everyone can agree we want as absolutely diverse cast as possible. Saying we can add even more characters who fill the same role just because another was recently added who shares similar characteristics with one who currently exists is just an excuse.
Randy's significance (Vs. David Tapp)
As well, Randy didn't exactly die very early in the franchise when you consider that the story was meant to be a trilogy. On a personal level I'm a fan of all the movies but I understand when a decent chunk of people say that they didn't pay attention to the fourth, some go so far as to say they didn't pay attention past the first and everything after that didn't live up to the original's legacy. He was a re-acurring character for the trilogy and that's what counts.
On top of this, if you think Randy isn't as iconic why don't you talk to SaW fans when they realized that Detective David Tapp was the survivor for that chapter?? The SaW franchise is ######### 8 movies long at this point with a 9th currently on the way, and the character they picked from the entire convoluted timeline was one who died in the very first ######### movie. Compared to the role Randy plays in Scream Detective Tapp is absolutely insignificant, completely and utterly inconsequential in every possible sense. Randy plays a key role in the survival of the main characters in Scream even AFTER he's dead in the third movie when they discover he left behind a tape recording of him explaining the rules of a trilogy. Tapp has barely any real significance in the one movie he shows up in and he has absolutely no impact on any film that came after for the rest of the series.
Keep in mind this is a film series who's timeline is so convolutedly full of secrets that it turns out one of the main characters (Doctor Lawrence Gordon) from the very first movie (the same movie that Tapp appears but has no significance in) actually turned out to be a secret antagonist working behind the scenes for Jigsaw for the next six movies until his role in the jigsaw murders was finally revealed in Saw 7 out of ######### nowhere. So it's not like Tapp couldn't have been written in as a more important character later on down the line, he just wasn't and was promptly completely forgotten about until Dead By Daylight picked him up.
PS.
I have no idea where you got the idea that Dwight is a nerd, just because he wears glasses, a tie, and a button up shirt that makes him a nerd?? Sure, on the surface he may look the part but his character is clearly described in the lore as having Grades that were "Distinctly below average". That immediately takes him out of the running for taking the role of the nerd archetype in Dead By Daylight, on the other hand Claudette definitely fits the nerd category. Regardless of what field of study she's into (Nerds are not specific to Math or technology: In this case she has an affinity for Biology - specifically Botany) she's very smart (her lore describes she earned an "early scholarship at a great college" in her original bio she is described as being "introverted [by] nature" and "Her brilliance provided her with a social handicap" This was reconfirmed 3 years later when Tome I was released and the archives described her as more or less a social outcast in elementary school. All of these are trademark characteristics of any classic Nerd character in popular culture.
A "Caring environmentalist" is not an archetype, at least not in horror movies. That doesn't mean characters who care for the environment don't show up, it means that they're far less common to constitute having an entire archetype, and likely would still fall under the role of a nerd in their story. Examples of archetypes in these kind of stories are "The Jock (often athletic, but not very smart), The Nerd (often intellectually savvy, typically lacks social skills), The popular girl (Often very pretty or beautiful and well respected by her peers for superficial reasons, usually arrogant or stuck up) The Nice guy (your average "nice guy" who is nice to the other characters in the story, doesn't stick out too much, sets a baseline for the audience to connect to and typically tied to the main character or has a leading role in some way), the rebel (A badass who cares mostly about themselves but later revealed to care about others to some degree, holds disregard or disdain for laws, rules, or convention, has a penchant for Leather clothing), etc.
This comes to Randy's archetype: The Geek. Closely correlated to the Nerd but without the downsides, they are typically defined by being smart (though not as smart as the Nerd) but are very capable in social situations, though might still be social outcasts to a certain degree. Often Witty or funny, their knowledge extends widely into popular culture such as movies, (video / board) games, celebrities, etc. making them very knowledgable about the climate they live in. I don't know about you but there isn't a single character in DBD that I can think of that truly embodies and embraces these characteristics which is why I would so look forward to Randy being introduced.
Or, BHVR could come up with their own original character who happens to be a geek. In which case the numerous paragraphs I have written arguing why Randy should make it in will be all for naught. Oh well ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
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Sidney Prescott is iconic I'll give you that, but I'm voting for Randy far, far, far, far, far more than I'm voting for Sidney Prescott.
To me every survivor represents an archetype. Meg is the athlete, Claudette is kind of a nerd, Jake is the lone wolf (even though this is Ash's description it fits Jake better if you've seen the show), Dwight is the nervous leader, Jeff is the gentle giant, Ace is the lucky gambler, Nea is the rebel, Steve Harrington is the (former) Jock, Nancy wheeler is the amateur Journalist with a sense for a good story, Jane is the celebrity, David Tapp is the obsessed cop, David King is the ######### / bully (this is how he is described by the devs in the stream when he first cam out), Feng Min is the gamer, Kate Denson is the free spirit, etc.
The important thing to note here is we've already got a character who fits the Final Girl archetype. Laurie is the Final Girl, so it doesn't make sense to have a second. I'd much rather have Randy because he represents a popular character archetype that we haven't seen yet before: "The Geek" or as I like to call him (because it's Randy) "The Horror Specialist"
Randy knows everything there is to know about Horror movies, that's what makes him so interesting a character in the context of the Scream films. He knows the tropes and he's the one who's got all the information about what is going down based on prior knowledge. Plus Randy is objectively the best / most interesting / most personality driven character from Scream let's be honest, there's a reason fans were so sad / outraged when he died in the second film, so much so that he still made it into the third movie despite his death.
I've been rooting for Randy for a long time now, which makes a lot of sense because one of the primary motivators he's given in the second movie shortly before his death is that he always plays second fiddle. The killer taunts him that he'll never be the leading man, he'll never get the girl, he's only an expendable character, and this makes him a character that I feel fits way too well with the types of stories Dead By Daylight tells with their characters to pass up.
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@K1LLR0CKNR0LL said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1137559#Comment_1137559
I agree. I love pig and I want to love GF but I feel other than his TR/RS reduction his power is kinda underwhelming, and like you said there are times pig feels powerless. Both killers definitely need to be revisited.
As a Ghostface main I can most definitely assure you that his power is not underwhelming in any sense at all, the only difference between Ghostface and the other stealth killers is he requires much more technical skill than any of the others. He's the only stealth killer who requires you to actually be stealthy and that trips people up who just want a permanent reduced TR handed to them on a silver platter, that's not interesting nor is it unique. As a result however, because he requires more skill he has a higher skill ceiling and can achieve things other Stealth killers either can't or struggle to do.
I will say his addons are kinda useless though. There are only a select few that really have practical use so I would definitely like to see a balance pass go over his addons. But when you say revisted in terms of his power that gets me really antsy because believe it or not he's in a really good state right now to where he's actually decently viable in red ranks. I would be worried if his power was revisited the devs would be listening to people who don't actually understand how his power can be used extremely effectively and he'd be messed up maybe even nerfed. So I'd rather he be untouched than anything else, even if that means getting stuck with crappy add ons.
If you don't believe me you can watch any content creators or streamers who have covered Ghostface, Not Otzdarva and Tru3Ta1ent have done some really good analysis and observation on how good Ghostface can really be.
All that being said Pig definitely needs to be revisited because she's on the other end of the spectrum, she sucks.
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@MysticMusician said:
@Seiko300 That is quite an opinion lol. I respect that opinion but dang you went off on poor plague. I do get what you're saying about the cleansing and altruism points though.
Lol, I'm glad you read through it all and can at least sympathize the teeniest bit. I don't ever mean to be toxic (to anyone who doesn't deserve it) but man does the Plague get me riled up. Most especially because people don't seem to be having this conversation very often when it comes to killers that need to be reworked or just generally need attention. They're like "yeah, she needs a rework" but people don't fully realize the extent she needs one until people like me finally put it into perspective with the whole "putting survivors into a no win situation" concept and "you earn less bloodpoints on average".
Yeah, the killer who is in the most dire of straits and needs immediate attention is the Clown (fite me) he needs a desperate buff. Followed by the Legion who just needs a general rework, and then Leatherface, and Pig are all on the docket of lower tier killers who have their own problems. But man Plague is the only non-low-tier killer that needs just as much attention as the rest of them, it's only the fact that she's not low tier she avoids that kind of attention.
And then after that pretty much every killer needs some amount of add on reworks even good killers like Ghostface and Hillbilly just have add ons which mostly suck except for a few of them. The earlier killers don't have add ons which conform to the normal layout (every killer is supposed to have 2 ultra rare addons, some number of purples, greens, etc.) for example Hillbilly doesn't even have a single Ultra rare add on if I'm not mistaken (not that he necessarily needs it arguably, however for the sake of consistency across all killers he does.)
But yeah. Long story short of course I popped off on the Plague I keep it 💯 spitting straight facts no cap. Gotta represent when nobody else is standing up and letting people know there's some serious underlying balance issues with that killer. They just get swept under the rug because they don't make her super powerful or super weak so it's easier to ignore because they don't stick out as obviously.
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While it sounds like a fun idea, and I do agree with you that "the Memento Mori Kill sequences are some of the greatest tributes Dead by Daylight has made to the Horror genre." there are a few things that I don't like about it.
For one, this has some lore implications that I'm not sure about, the whole shtick behind the story is that the killers are supposed to be sacrificing the survivors to the Entity, and are only ever allowed to kill on their own if they present the entity with an offering. (Memento mori) of course I don't doubt the devs could find some way to explain this away if they ever decided to go through with this kind of change (rewarding the killer for doing a good job getting 3k, last is yours kinda deal) but still
Now, some people could quite honestly care less for lore, they don't read it and they just don't care for it. However I'd point out that using a memento mori has always given you less bloodpoints, this again, like it or not has its roots in the lore of the game. The entity rewards you the most when you offer up the survivors as sacrifices on the hooks not when you decide to kill them yourself. Now that being said are they going to change those scoring events in order to accommodate for these changes? If a memento mori is something every killer has the option to do to a survivor on death hook will you earn the same amount of bloodpoints as sacrificing them? Because I'm honestly not a fan of coming out of matches consistently with less bloodpoints because I decided to mori "for the experience / tribute to the horror genre". The grind itself is enough incentive for me to not even use the feature if it was offered like this. I've still got plenty of killers and survivors I want to P3 and I'm not going to be doing that any quicker (in fact I'll be doing it slower) if I decide to mori the last survivor in every match I 4k but the mori still awards me with less bloodpoints.
Finally if you're able to mori survivors on Death Hook that kind of needlessly detracts from certain off meta strategies that don't need to be detracted from. IE it renders the sabotage strategy more useless than it already is, or pro wiggling loadouts for survivors who might be running things like Flip-flop, boil over, tenacity, etc. but they don't even get the chance to use these perks to possibly escape because everybody decides to mori everybody after this change is implemented (unless you're a fiend for bloodpoints like me). I don't know about you guys but I am not a fan of pushing forward a stationary, never evolving meta which never changes. I want to encourage both survivors and killers to try out as many new playstyles as possible and by making Mori's available to everybody, you end up just pushing these strategies even further back into obscurity and decrease their viability even more. I would much rather see a survivor escape me because he was running flip flop or unbreakable than because he was running exhaustion perks and other frequently seen meta perks.
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She's the most poorly balanced and designed killer in the entire ######### game.
The option "I hate her" isn't exactly the most helpful in terms of feedback, I would have liked to pick the option that says "need to be reworked / tweaked" but it simply isn't strong enough a response / stance for me and "I hate her" perfectly encompasses what I think about the character. I absolutely abhor the Plague as a survivor and think she's dumb as a killer: she's not good to use but she's not the worst either, and I think that's what I hate about her the most she is the saddest middle ground.
I know threads that say "remove x killer or y & z perks" are just trolls and would never realistically happen, but if there was a killer I could remove any history or trace of, it would be the goddamn ######### plague.
This is not to say she's super powerful, and it's not to say she's super weak either, it means exactly what I said, she's absolutely poorly designed.
As a survivor you are put in a no win situation. The classic point when it comes to the plague is you have two choices: Cleanse or don't cleanse. NEITHER choice is a good option. You don't cleanse you're stuck broken the entire game, and stealth is that much harder because you're constantly coughing, throwing up, and leaving a green haze on objects you interact with like generators.
If you do decide to cleanse you give plague access to what is singlehandedly the most powerful aggressive ability any killer has access to. Corrupt Purge: It's a projectile so it can reach up, down, left, right, over pallet loops, windows, etc. Because it's a stream of acid like fluid it is incredibly easy to hit because you don't have to aim just thrash your screen around so it takes absolutely no skill to use unlike The Huntress and soon to be released Deathslinger. And on top of this, it can hit multiple survivors, combined with a pretty short cooldown (even if you charge it completely) and you can just spam this one after the other even if you hit the ability so downing someone at full is not difficult in the slightest.
Not to ######### mention, she is the ONLY killer that basically nullifies an entire bloodpoint category. You are guaranteed to get less bloodpoints in the altruism category simply because you're never going to be healing your teammates, yourself with self care, etc. You're hardly going to be cleansing yourself because most smart survivors will pick the former option over the latter and even then the bloodpoint scoring event for cleansing is worth hardly anything. So even after all this [BAD WORD] you have to put up with you're still going to be coming out on average with less bloodpoints than you would otherwise against any other killer.
People hate Legion but at least you get bloodpoints from the constant healing and mending that you'll be doing in that match, it's very easy to max out the altruism category against a legion.
Everybody has a right to their opinion, but if you like using the Plague you're an #########. Yes that might be an oxymoron, my statement still stands.
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@Blazelski said:
I'm going to have to join the Clown posse here for the reasons already shared. He's not far from being a Huntress who throw pillows instead of hatchets.
I'll also join the fledgling gang saying Legion is fine. When I'm against him, it's nice to know that being chased at the start of the game doesn't necessarily mean he tunnels me onto a hook me from the get go. He also tends to be an indirect buff to the terrible Autodidact, so I heart him for that. He tends to be unfun to play against when the other survivors insist on self-caring, but that's Claudette's fault, not Legion's. When I'm playing as him, I enjoy pinballing from survivor to survivor, treating survivors like timed batteries I have to get to and hit before time runs out. I enjoy that he genuinely plays a bit different from other killers.
Lol. "Pillows"
@K1LLR0CKNR0LL said:
I can agree with clown, leatherface and legion but GF needs an add on rework. Most his add ons are useless save the recovery ones. Also crouch doesn't do much either. He's just an m1 killer with no TR or RS
I would love to see a buff to crouching movement speed for killers, this makes it so it's more useful for GF to crouch but this also directly buffs the Pig (who is in a really poor state right now and I'm surprised to see only 1 vote for her. She definitely needs some kind of rework instead of just a buff [her power is far too inconsistent and relies entirely on RNG, meaning it can actually have some measure of impact in slowing the game down, or it's like she doesn't have a power at all])
Right now crouching movement speed is slightly slower than survivor running speed, killers who are crouching move at 90% as opposed to their typical 115 (both the Pig and GF are 115 killers). This makes them extremely slow when traversing the map and reduces their map pressure because they end up moving more slowly than if they were walking. My suggestion is to buff the crouching movement speed by 10% to match the speed survivors are typically moving at when they're running around the map gen rushing. Maybe even 105% to make crouching slightly more viable in chases but I don't know if that would be too much. Definitely buff crouching speed to 100% minimum, otherwise it can quickly become more of a hindrance than a help to crouch as these killers
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Pretty biased poll ngl, some people don't want Hawkins to be changed at all (especially if those changes are only benefitting survivors). However, the last option actually sounds like a pretty good idea, the upstairs is the most nonsecure area on the map and it's basically a death sentence if you go in there while being chased if you don't have a plan (You can make it if you've got a strategy in mind, like using Lithe through one of the windows or Balanced Landing on the drop).
I wouldn't mind seeing the upstairs reworked.
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@Timtom24 said:
im so happy that Laurie and Michael got cosmetics! im still hoping to get more Halloween cosmetics though, but hey i agree with you guys... freddy need more love right now but well licenses are hard to keep (on some consoles or the microsoft store there is no elm street dlc at all not even springwood as map exists.)
More Myers cosmetics would be great, not sure what they could do for Laurie but I know Michael has had several different looks over the years. Including some iterations where it's like 20+ years later and the mask is all dirty, grim, and grungy looking
But yes, Freddy first pls. I'm just thinking that since we already got new halloween cosmetics in the past it'll probably be easier for the devs to secure new cosmetics in the future
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I would say Clown needs more of a buff than a rework, but at the same time I could very well see someone saying his power needs to be overhauled in some way.
Regardless of whether he needs a buff or a full blown rework, Clown is singlehandedly the one killer that most deserves and needs attention right now. I could see why people would vote Legion deserves more of a rework, which isn't to say that his power is good or bad it just needs to be changed because it's kind of useless in the ways that are most critical which is securing a down. Every other killer has an ability that helps end a chase by downing a survivor. Electrifying someone as Doc stuns them stopping them from dropping a pallet or vaulting a window, the wraith can sneak up on people catch them in exposed areas by going invisible and he does gain a speed boost coming out of invis which helps in certain loops, Leatherface can get instadowns, the plague can permanently break survivors and corrupt purge is obviously really strong to get people at a range, etc. Everyone except Legion
Now, that being said, Legion still manages to be better than the Clown. The legion has a certain amount of map pressure that comes with being able to sprint in feral frenzy, and he can locate survivors very quickly with killer instinct, and he can do the quickest amount of surface level damage in the shortest amount of time (in most average scenarios excluding hypotheticals like all the survivors being grouped up against a Plague with corrupt purge or Leatherface, which isn't likely to happen), which can synergize well in anti heal or slowdown builds with thanataphobia, coulrophobia, Nurse's calling, dying light, surveillance, discordance, pop goes the weasel, all these can work really well because of the current nature of his ability. You don't necessarily have to win every chase if you can snowball enough momentum or pressure that you end up forcing any kind of progression to a halt, especially if you chain up three gens. (Of course this isn't to say he's good by any means, only that he's better than the Clown)
Clown has no map pressure, he isn't better at tracking than anybody else, and his power which is supposed to counter loops hardly doesn't do squat at many of them. Usually it would take multiple bottles to slow down a survivor long enough to have a significant impact on the loop, and since you have a limited number of bottles it's very easy to run out and you are forced to stop a chase and reload. This puts you in a very bad situation where you're only wasting time, not to mention after throwing a bottle he enters a cooldown period of 1 second which actually slows him down in those chases.
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@Seiko300 said:
I'm ngl, I've always wanted to see the alternate clawed gloves Freddy has made in game. I can't remember which movie, but in one of the movies it shows off his lair and in his lair he has multiple different prototypes of clawed gloves hanging from the walls and stuff like that. The one that stood out to me the most were actually spikes attached to the knuckles and fingers rather than the classic knives, I can't remember which movie this scene was from though.
We've seen other incarnations of Freddy's iconic weapon throughout other films though not just that one scene.
In Wes Craven's New Nightmare the claws aren't on a glove but actually embedded into the fingers of Freddys hand.
There's also that time that Freddy turns his claws into syringes filled with some drugs in liquid form inside, since the devs are really into making more flexible and movable cosmetic pieces (IE The Pigs Corkscrew weapon which actually spins and makes noise) I would love to see this liquid slosh around inside the syringe fingers, and maybe even squirt out a little bit after Freddy hits someone.
...As great as these ideas are I feel like they might be the least likely to come about, I think the Nightmare on Elm Street license might be the most strict out of any license DBD has obtained. I might be wrong considering the Nightmare On Elm Street license was recently reacquired by the Wes Craven estate, so perhaps they might be more open and willing for renegotiation to allow new cosmetics like the ones I suggested.
I did some digging and I found the video of the scene I was describing and took a few screenshots of the different (prototype?) gloves he's used, a few even have a bit of blood on them implying they've been used before.
Here is the glove I was talking about with the Spikes attached to his knuckles and fingers
This one has curved, almost animal like claws rather than knives
This is a rack of all the different designs Freddy has been tinkering with:
And the final shot actually features all four different designs prominently hanging off the wall, alongside one that has razorblades attached to the fingertips instead of knives, spikes, or claws. In the middle we can see a slightly different design on the iconic glove where the knives are attached at the base of the knuckles instead of the fingertips, almost like rings actually
Here is a link to the original video if you want to see for yourself (The girl walks into the workshop at 1:17):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZsQySm24w_oOf course I'd be remiss if I didn't add images of the other iconic alternatives, here is new nightmare Freddy where the knives are actually a part of his hand and we can actually see prominently features a fifth claw on the thumb:
(I would not mind seeing that trench coat for a cosmetic piece for Freddy either)
The syringe claws which I would personally want to see the most, I know they're filled to the brim in this image but I would like to see them maybe half or 3/4 filled so the fluid inside could slosh around as Freddy moves and maybe even squirt a bit of the blue liquid out after hitting a survivor:
Basically there's a lot to work with here. And over the span of 8 films there truly is a lot to work with here in terms of cosmetics. If the dev team does ever renegotiate the license perhaps they can figure out a way to get these different glove designs in to start since they actually do appear in the movies.
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Anybody who says "false" is just a troll, or really absurdly pessimistic..
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You would not believe how much I miss it. I get that there are plenty of biased community members who only play one side or the other, but for those who frequently play both sides it was so great to be able to switch at the click of a button.
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I would much rather have power creep over redundancy. The last thing I ever want to see are new perks or killer abilities introduced which in the grand scheme of things are either useless except under specific circumstances, or basically do the exact same thing as a previous character just slightly differently and are therefore unoriginal concepts.
This is something that a game like Rainbow Six Siege suffers from, in an effort to avoid power creep they're starting to introduce operators that basically do the same thing. To the point where they're taking old concepts from the attacking or defending side and slapping them onto the other side as a "brand new operator". Nokk is just Caveira / Vigil, Kaid is just Bandit, Clash is Montagne, Zofia is Ashe, Wamai is Jager, Kali is Glaz, and so on and so forth. In the worst of circumstances you create an operator like Warden, who's only ability is to not get flashed and see through smoke... as long as he stands still. Completely, and utterly worthless (despite looking flashy and fashionable).
It makes for really old, really bland gameplay which hardly ever evolves.
On the opposite end of the spectrum you have a game like League of Legends which recently introduced new champions Sett and Aphelios both of which were received on the negative side because they were extremely overpowered and pushed older, generally considered weaker champions even farther back in the meta than they already are (The latter more than the former, but still). Bordering irrelevancy.
However, in a general sense I think it's much easier to realize what aspects of a character are too powerful and nerf those facets to be more in line with existing characters than say "hey, this character is really weak but their power only covers a niche utility, what brand new mechanic can we introduce into their kit to make them better?". Even if you end up nerfing an OP character into the ground you can still eventually recover by slowly reincorporating those previously considered "op" facets of and begin to strike a balance gradually by either scaling them up or slowly scaling them down.
Introducing much more redundant, uninspired, niche utility characters, are much harder to work with, simply because of the fact there's not much there to work with as a baseline in the first place.
Coming back to Dead By Daylight, I think the devs have done a pretty good job so far (yep) of avoiding introducing niche characters or unoriginal concepts. Hillbilly and Leatherface, despite both having chainsaws are polar opposites in function: Hillbilly gains a massive amount of agility while using his, giving him a lot of map pressure, but can only down one survivor at a time, it is also harder to use. Leatherface can down multiple survivors at once, making him a much stronger defending killer, but he has to accelerate before picking up speed, and gains mobility instead being able to maneuver much more easily and controllably. But both share the capacity to instantly down a survivor from a full healed state to dying state. We all know which is better, but that's besides the point the point is that they're distinctly original
Ghostface and Michael Myers both stalk their unsuspecting victims. But Ghostface's Night Shroud ability, removes his terror radius completely, he is shorter, and also has the ability to crouch making him far more efficient at catching survivors off guard. However, Ghostface (though he can stalk multiple survivors at a time) can only expose one survivor at a time and every survivor has their own individual exposed meter. Because his stealth capabilities are so much more efficient he can also be kicked out of his power, and when he's not using night shroud he cannot stalk. Michael Myers in contrast, has a terror radius that gradually increases the more he stalks survivors, at the beginning he is undetectable but he is slower and relies on these surprise attacks to do any significant damage. In EW2 he has a terror radius smaller than any other killer, and in EW3 it's normal. The difference being he puts everyone in the exposed effect at once allowing him to steamroll a massive amount of pressure at a specific time.
(this next paragraph just continues to illustrate this trend of unique killers by comparing deathslinger to huntress, you don't have to read the next brick of text)
This trend continues with the reveal of our newest killer the Deathslinger. I love the comparison between Deathslinger and Huntress, simply because you could go back and forth for hours about who is more powerful. Some say the answer is clear cut but I say it's more nuanced than that. Both the Huntress and Deathslinger are ranged killers, but how they go about it is wildly different. The deathslinger uses a barbed spear to hook them from a distance and pulls them in close to cut them down. Whereas the Huntress throws hatchets from a distance and deals a straight state of damage. The Huntress (as far as I'm aware) depending on how long you charge and the angle at which you throw a hatchet has a practically unlimited range, enabling her to hit extremely long distance shots as long as you have the accuracy. The deathslinger however, has a static maximum ranger of 18 meters, any farther than that and he won't catch anybody. But to compensate for this, the deathslinger has a reduced terror radius of 24 meters, allowing him to get much closer to survivors without them realizing he is there. Whereas the Huntress has a lullaby on top of her terror radius, which gradually increases in intensity the closer she is making her presence audible at a range of 45 meters. To further compensate, the Huntress has a charge time to throw her hatchets before they're throwable, it's slower and more clunky. Where the deathslinger has an almost immediate ADS time allowing him to hit his shots much faster. The projectiles themselves are also very different, hitboxes for the hatchets huntress uses are rectangles and if they hit anything that isn't a survivor, that hatchet is gone. Whereas the hitbox for the hooked spear the deathslinger uses is very fine and thin, allowing him to hit crazy shots in tiny spaces between objects. On top of all this despite having more aggressive power in her ability at a longer distance the huntress has to reload her hatchets at lockers placed around the map, meaning if she's in a chase she either has to disengage, or suffer through as a 110% movement speed killer. Whereas hit or miss, the deathslinger reloads after every shot he takes, but has the capability to maintain LOS and keep up the chase. Also the deathslinger has the ability to force survivors into the deep wounds status effect forcing survivors to mend after they've been hit, this can give him more slowdown potential than the Huntress and allows his own ability to be just as aggressive as Huntress hatchets, just at a closer range. (I could go on even more but I'll cap it there this paragraph is too long).
TL;DR It would be a real shame for BHVR to start introducing redundant or niche concepts. To a certain extent they've already done this with perks (and I haven't even talked about perks this whole time) like Cruel Limits from the Demogorgon, Blood Echo from the Oni, Solidarity from Jane Romero, Buckle Up from Ash Williams, etc. and I would hate to see this continue.
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@Larikal said:
I love how 90% of polls here are so biased. First of all - game development means ALSO new killers and survivors, without them game sit in the same place. Second - option "devs shouldnt focus on game development" means like they should abandon their game. If you want to make some serious poll then there should be options like :
- devs should focus on balancing game
- devs should focus on making new content
See? It isnt that hard to make both options even, without any bias.
And for me - if game wouldnt get anything new for... lets say a year then most players would go away. How long you can play against the same billy/spirit? How long you can play on the same 2 maps? Not to mention that new chapters gets the best press and its the best way to marketing the game.
This^^^
Just because you made the poll biased I am going to select the option you clearly DON'T want people selecting.
Also, you know they do BOTH anyway?? The people who focus on creating new content are NOT the same people who balance existing content, these are two different parts of the dev team and nobody in the ######### community knows that apparently. That or they purposefully ignore the fact just to give themselves an excuse for being #########
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The Clown. Please the Clown. I can't even play as my favorite elephant boi without getting stomped by survivors in the ranks that I am and getting flamed in post game chat for sometimes needing to resort to camping / tunneling. T_T
He got such nice cosmetics this rift and I can't even enjoy them properly because the character himself is so bad. Bruh.
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@Dabihwow said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1133561#Comment_1133561
Yeah your probably right and since Freddy is so Iconic it would be more of a challenge, I thin he would be the last licensed killer of the currant state to have a cosmetic
Probably. Sadly
But I wouldn't forget how successful and popular Dead By Daylight has become since 2017 (when Freddy was first introduced). BHVR has secured so many popular characters from popular licenses: Halloween, Saw, Leatherface, Stranger Things was a massive license to land considering how popular the show is and getting the legendary Bruce Campbell himself to voice his iconic character Ash Williams and use his likeness for the character model as well is pretty big news considering how well respected he is as an actor.
The more people that work with Dead By Daylight to get their characters in, and create new additions to those characters in terms of cosmetics, the more other people will be willing to work with BHVR because it's a pretty safe bet that whatever it is as long as it's popular it'll be successful in terms of sales. And that works both ways if it's not as popular in the moment by including whatever it is in Dead By Daylight might cause a resurgence in popularity for that license, so it's a two way street.
(And to apply that logic to present day, I hear talks of a potential continuation or remake of a new Nightmare on Elm Street movie [and a new F13 movie] which would culminate in a brand new Freddy Vs. Jason movie. This could possibly be see Robert Englund reprising his role as Freddy Krueger. So to promote this new movie, make the character more popular, and generate hype, we could see new cosmetics for Freddy sooner than we think)
This extends to license holders who have already worked with BHVR in the past, seeing how successful they game has become might make those who were a bit strict in the past to become more amicable towards the titles newfound success. We've seen the devs revisit the Halloween license to create new cosmetics for Michael and Laurie (which were the first licensed characters introduced, so this is the oldest license in game).
TL;DR Never say never.
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The Plague, The Plague, The Plague holy frick the plague. The plague seemed cool at the time when she first released, she has a pretty cool weapon using the incense censer, new projectile attack is always cool, but in retrospect and with the benefit of hindsight she is arguably the most poorly designed killer.
This is not to say she's super powerful, and it's not to say she's super weak either, it means exactly what I said, she's absolutely poorly designed.
As a survivor you are put in a no win situation. The classic point is when it comes to the plague you have two choices: Cleanse or don't cleanse. NEITHER choice is a good option. You don't cleanse you're stuck broken the entire game, and stealth is that much harder because you're constantly coughing, throwing up, and leaving a green haze on objects you interact with like generators.
If you do decide to cleanse you give plague access to what is singlehandedly the most powerful aggressive ability any killer has access to. Corrupt Purge: It's a projectile so it can reach up, down, left, right, over pallet loops, windows, etc. Because it's a stream of acid like fluid it is incredibly easy to hit because you don't have to aim just thrash your screen around. And on top of both of those facts it can hit multiple survivors, combined with a pretty short cooldown (even if you charge it completely) and you can just spam this one after the other.
Not to ######### mention, she is the ONLY killer that basically nullifies an entire bloodpoint category. You are guaranteed to get less bloodpoints in the altruism category simply because you're never going to be healing your teammates, yourself with self care, etc. You're hardly going to be cleansing yourself because most smart survivors will pick the former option over the latter and even then the bloodpoint scoring event for cleansing is worth hardly anything. So even after all this ######### you have to put up with you're still going to be coming out on average with less bloodpoints than you would otherwise against any other killer.
People hate Legion but at least you get bloodpoints from the constant healing and mending that you'll be doing in that match, it's very easy to max out the altruism category against a legion.
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I'm ngl, I've always wanted to see the alternate clawed gloves Freddy has made in game. I can't remember which movie, but in one of the movies it shows off his lair and in his lair he has multiple different prototypes of clawed gloves hanging from the walls and stuff like that. The one that stood out to me the most were actually spikes attached to the knuckles and fingers rather than the classic knives, I can't remember which movie this scene was from though.
We've seen other incarnations of Freddy's iconic weapon throughout other films though not just that one scene.
In Wes Craven's New Nightmare the claws aren't on a glove but actually embedded into the fingers of Freddys hand.
There's also that time that Freddy turns his claws into syringes filled with some drugs in liquid form inside, since the devs are really into making more flexible and movable cosmetic pieces (IE The Pigs Corkscrew weapon which actually spins and makes noise) I would love to see this liquid slosh around inside the syringe fingers, and maybe even squirt out a little bit after Freddy hits someone.
...As great as these ideas are I feel like they might be the least likely to come about, I think the Nightmare on Elm Street license might be the most strict out of any license DBD has obtained. I might be wrong considering the Nightmare On Elm Street license was recently reacquired by the Wes Craven estate, so perhaps they might be more open and willing for renegotiation to allow new cosmetics like the ones I suggested.
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@Saitamfed said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1120178#Comment_1120178
I am sorry but no, the Tome archives are not enough itself, but you need to do the active tome, it will boost you a lot.
That is complete booty, I swear I remember Horvath saying that it was really important to them that the community doesn't have to grind extra outside of / on top of the rift. Total, bruh moment.
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I wouldn't mind seeing this kind of a killer in the future, they haven't exactly explored the underwater / aquatic horror (except for that one Trapper cosmetic) too much and I'd like to see more of that kind of thing. A killer in an old timey dive suit, or a pirate or something would work great. Would have some kind of harpoon (sucks that the Harpoon gun concept has already been taken by a Western cowboy type character of all archetypes...) or fish hook as a weapon.
If you had an option for "maybe in the future" I would totally pick that option. As it stands I don't want to say no but I won't say yes either.
I'm still hype for a Pennywise chapter or a Pinhead chapter after the most recent trailer that prominently featured chains. They've released 2 original chapters in a row (First the Oni and then the Deathslinger) so I am fully expecting a licensed chapter for the next chapter. It's only a matter of time...
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I think specifically I just hit level 32 or 33... Somewhere around that mark.
I'm freaking out because I'm a bit behind compared to last time where I truly grinded out the entirety of the Archives ASAP. Hopefully I have enough time to get to the end but I'd be happy if I made it just to lvl 63 (the last Clown cosmetic is on that level).
Really need that Ace cosmetic in the free track which is on level 50 something too.. I think it's like level 54.
I swear the devs said that you'd be able to get to the end of the track if you finished every single challenge in the tome. Is that not how that works? Because I feel like I should be farther along than I am. I'm really not a fan of the idea of grinding out extra on TOP of going out of my way to do every challenge while the Tome is active, that's how it should be anyway, finish all the challenges and you finish the rift.
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Making new Mori's is a super great idea, and I know for one in a game with a similar concept For Honor gets their community super excited when they release new executions and I'd expect new Moris would be treated the same way in DBD.
I would also expect them to work the same way as cosmetics, you can earn a bunch of them but they are a business and likely a few would be premium and cost money. I don't think they're worth anywhere near as much as the premium cosmetics though, because you're not going to be tossing moris out left and right with killers. (At least with how they're balanced right now, if they changed Moris to be an alternative to final hook like some people say they should maybe we'd see them more often) so they're clearly not as valuable.
I probably wouldn't get any if they cost the same as current cosmetics. But for my killer main and other top favorite killers I'd probably pick up some premium Moris up from the store ngl. Otherwise I'd be grinding for them for free like everybody else
Besides, introducing moris for free isn't an entirely bad business idea. You encourage people to buy the DLC that mori belongs to that way, imagine if you got a second Mori instead of the silly reskin of the default skin you get when you buy a DLC. You know how many more DLC sales they'd make??
Also they could expand this system so you could equip multiple moris at once. Number keys aren't being used right now so you could use numbers 1 - 4 to select your mori as killer.
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Gameplay wise I'm always on edge against Ghostface, and really any of the stealth killers but the most on Ghostface because he's the best and most likely to catch you out out of all of them.
Fear factor wise I remember thinking The Spirit was the most disturbing and freaky killer who was truly horrifying on release. The statement still stands.
If I saw them IRL: I'd actually say Clown. I don't mess with that crap man Clowns are creepy. A huge fat one who probably killed a guy and stole his clothes and is using chemical gas to disorient me and maybe knock me out would be ######### intense.
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The PLAGUE hello???!?!??
I hate how people put the most obvious "not the answer" in their polling options. Ex: Hillbilly, The Oni, are just good killers and can be really effective. Not particularly annoying. On the flip side, The Pig is a terrible killer, and you have to be really skilled or experienced to use her properly. You'll probably never die from her RBTs and if you do it's probably on you more than anything else.
I refuse to select any of these options. The Plague is the most bullshit I've ever seen just because of how her power is structured, there is no winning option here. You don't cleanse you stay broken the entire game on top of throwing up and coughing a ######### ton making stealth that much harder, you do cleanse you give her the most powerful flipping aggressive killer ability in the entire flipping game. BRUH.
Most frustrating thing is she basically negates the entire altruism category since you'll never be healing other people and just straight up means you're going to be earning less bloodpoints. At least with Legion I'm mending and healing a ######### ton so I get way more bloodpoints, DOUBLE BRUH.
Why is she not on the list. Calling bullshit she is most deserving to be on this list than any other killer.
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Currently Otz. Used to be Monto
No0b3 = very honorable mention. Super funny, pretty skilled, well edited videos, but uploads are a tad infrequent and inconsistent (as many have pointed out.). He does re-use the same sound effects and audio bits a bit too much sometimes though, needs to expand on those.
RIP No votes for Paulie Esther T_T Poor Paulie, he's got to be the most wholesome Fog Whisperer and community member out there. He's the true favorite but in a different way. Best content creator who covers DBD related news, speculation, theorycrafting, lore, and all the great extraneous bits about DBD that aren't about gameplay.
No Yerv on the list of options? He's a pretty cool & chill dude too. I tune in just to listen to what he's got to say about some things, he doesn't make super serious videos he just kinda throws ideas, opinions, and information out there which I can respect. "Hey, here's a problem, here are some ideas about what could be done about it. Don't know if all of these would work or if they're balanced or whatever, but hey this is just to get the conversation started..".
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Aside from Candyman and Chucky I hate to see that the really big licenses clearly everyone wants to see most aren't included in this poll. Hence why so many people are voting "Other" over most of the things actually listed.
AKA Pennywise and Pinhead.
Jason has a pretty big base and plenty of people who want him, but there are also plenty who don't want him (including me) or don't care as much if he gets added because he's got his own game (which died.) Also major license issues with the character (everybody knows about the lawsuit)
Honorable mentions: The Xenomorph from Alien and / or The Predator, and The Thing. There's a severe lack of sci-fi horror representation despite sci-fi horror being one of the most original kinds of horror (Mary Shelley's Frankenstein much??). The three characters I've mentioned are just very prominent and well liked in the genre, of course I'm sure BHVR could come up with their own very creative, unique Sci-Fi killers
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@HauntedMandalorian said:
I think the Key is a fair use. It comes in handy when the last remaining Generators are close together and the Killer is patrolling them really hard. At that point, a Key is a fair usage. I don't like when Survivors use them early on in the match as soon as the Hatch appears, but not enough to complain about it.
If it bothers you that much, use Franklin's Demise. 🤷♂️
How am I supposed to do that (run Franklin's) when a key is black and 3 pixels long. Not to mention I hardly pay attention to the lobby nowadays because of queue times, I start my queue, tab out and then wait until I hear the audio cue that signals a trial is starting. So I'm not even there to see if someone brings a key or not.
Franklin's isn't even a guaranteed counter because you know that same SWF is either going to have the same guy going back to look for it at the exact spot he dropped it, or he describes the general area and someone else grab it. In which case I have no idea who's holding it because again, 3 pixels long.
@meatisadelicacy said:
You're probably seeing a lot of keys because there's a challenge. And yeah, the key hasn't been changed but don't forget the insta heal was nerfed to the point of it no longer being used. Ebony moris are still going strong and are the farthest thing from "ultra rare." Why should insta heals and keys be nerfed but not ebony moris? Or would that be fair to you?
EGC was a huge change that favors the killer.
I rarely see anyone bring in a key at all, much less actually use it to escape. More than anything, I see survivors get lucky and find a key, stop playing, and let their teammates die on their first hook so they can get hatch. The other day I found a key and showed my teammate. He let me die on my first hook and then took the key.
I just prestige my Jane and got her back to level 50. Guess how many keys I have. One purple, one pink. I really don't think survivors care about keys nearly as much as you think we do. Why would you get so tilted by a 4 man SWF that brings a key? If it's so unfair, why let it bother you? Why not just play the game and have fun? No one can control how you feel but you.
I could care less about Moris since I don't use them (unless I've been having a bad day and want to ######### on survivors extra hard and sweaty). Although I will say Moris nowadays are more for spectacle than for gameplay advantage (for both), everytime a new Killer comes into the fog the first question aside from who it is and what their power is, is what's their mori?
Memento Mori's are very much engrained into the personality of DBD and people enjoy the gruesome spectacles, in the same way that Mortal Kombat is known for its iconic fatalities and brutalities.
So if you have some idea about how to nerf Mori be my guest and post about it, I wouldn't mind, no harm in discussing ideas as long as the important part which is the Spectacle remains. Though I will challenge your point by saying I see less Moris in my survivor games than Keys in my Killer games.
Also, I'm aware of the challenge, and will point out that my notice of an increased use of keys crosses a span of a couple of weeks / months in recent history, far before Tome II and it's later levels were dropped. The only thing the challenge does is prove the relevancy of the topic, and my point that keys are a genuine balance issue in the game.