ScottJund
ScottJund
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@George_Soros said:
Yay. Why do so many people refuse to learn how to play against Nurse?
If she gets nerfed, I'll definitely give up on this game. Don't care much about her addons, but basekit, maybe one extra blink and the brown range addons are perfectly balanced. She's the killer this game needs, since SWF was introduced.
My dude saying 3 blink is perfectly balanced with a straight face.
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nice NOED :)
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@MaskedMurderer said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/591678#Comment_591678
Exactly my point.
Zubat isn't the norm. But anyone sees a good Nurse and cries for nerfs.
I dont even think her base power should be nerfed. Its a necessary evil until the time efficiency issue is fixed. Her addons are getting worked on soon though.
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@MaskedMurderer said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/591673#Comment_591673
Exactly my question to this entire thread.
Zubat is not a random Nurse.
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@MaskedMurderer said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/591668#Comment_591668
Oh, I guess you missed my previous post but you ended up calling her bad.
Anyone who loses with OmegaBlink you'd judge as bad.
Anyone winning with OmegaBlink you'd judge as OP and needing a nerf.
Pick one.
Are you seriously claiming a random Nurse from a cherry picked survivor sided video is your baseline for a good Nurse?
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@MaskedMurderer said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/591632#Comment_591632
lol hypocrites if I ever saw the lot.
If I'm a hypocrite show me a good Nurse losing with Omegablink.
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@MaskedMurderer said:
Is no one mentioning Zubat posted a survivor game against Nurse and her Omega Blink Prestige 3 only got 1k.
No? Double standard.
It is literally impossible for a good Nurse to lose with Omegablink. Double standard my ass. The only possible explanation is the Nurse was terrible.
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That's probably the worst example I've ever seen.
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@FredKrueger said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/591262#Comment_591262
Are you that dense and can't see that I just proved someone can be just as deadly with a crappy killer?
Drop a nuclear bomb on an island with one person living on it. Result: 1 person dies.
Shoot a guy in the head. Result: 1 person dies.
GuNs ArE aS StRonG as NuClEar BomBs
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@Freudentrauma said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/591082#Comment_591082
I kinda love that "argument". Somebody tries to reason how and why -> Doesn't work on good nurse players. -> End of discussion.
Thing is: even a good nurse players have limits with their blinks. And once wrote a longer post trying to explain, what I meant. It's just hard to say. And It's not just about judging the blink distance. It's about judging, where she lands with her first blink e.g. and how to move to position yourself good against the second blink. It's really hard to say how and why, because it's more a game feel thing. I tried to go into detail in past discussions. I really don't want to repeat myself, all the time and already tried to explain it. (https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/561406#Comment_561406)
You can explain what you think will work all you want but I want to see you prove it. Its not hard. It would take 5 minutes tops.
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@FredKrueger said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/591191#Comment_591191
What does that have to do with my point? My point was any good player can make ANY KILLER look god like. Most survivors just are too lazy and don't wanna take the time to learn how to counter nurse, they expect to be able to loop her, because that's their only strategy against killers, and when they can't, they scream for a nerf and complain that she's too OP. Omega blink nurse is OP. Base kit nurse is not, however. Sorry dude.
Are you seriously that dense to not see a difference between Leatherface and Nurse
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@Carpemortum said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/591091#Comment_591091
So, just like the others, you're neglecting to read everything I said. Gotchya.
I have read everything you said. What am I missing?
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@FredKrueger said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/587485#Comment_587485
Dude go watch tru3. He 4k's people with leather face and legion and makes it look easy. I guess they need a bigger nerf too? 🤦♂️
I didn't know Leatherface and Legion can teleport through walls, #########.
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@[Deleted User] said:
How many god nurses are there? In absolute numbers, please tell me. We established nurse requires actual skill, not everybody achieves that level of play, not everybody has the time for it, not everybody is able to do it.
I think more survivors are just lazy.
How many survivors do play like depip squad? Go gather 4 friends, let one put on OoO and all for the rest insert all the other crutches, go with 2 instaheals, 2 toolboxes. Keep doing that, how much skill does that require?
So we nerf survivors now completely?
To be fair that means we are allowing add-ons which means the Nurse can use Omegablink and down the guy with OoO in the first 20 seconds of the match so the Nurse still wins in that scenario too. Nothing in DBD is stronger than Omegablink which is why its slated to be nerfed along with multi blink add-ons.
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@Carpemortum said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/590955#Comment_590955
Ready other comments. I dont "tryhard".
The fact remains you have options, yet people these days all pigeonhole themselves into "one playstyle" and never learns anything else. Its proven with how many threads ######### about the constant looping. And guess what nurse counters?
So again. Think a little for yourself. Dont play stupid. Dont play it like it's just another round against a ######### freddy.
But yes, you trying the old "1v1 me" really makes your argument more valid than the points I've actually typed out.
I dont think I have ever seen someone that says "jUSt ADapT aND stOp LoOpInG" accept a KYF invite to display these sick adaptations, ever. Very mysterious.
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@[Deleted User] said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/589733#Comment_589733
Can you explain why you think that it is good balance when as you call these people "godly" skilled people have to get destroyed? I really wonder, why is it not enough just to +pip versus these individuals why does there have to be dominant victory over the strongest killer there is, played on a level very few achieve? To me this sounds absolutely fair considering the asymmetry.
As for the kyf, is this freaking kindergarden? Reminds me of cs, lost a game, people get mad "1v1 me dude come on". Honestly I expected so much more of you and no you actually didn't argue his point, you completely ignored it and tried to make a mockery out of it. I would actually really like to do this i am however in europe and that will be bad ping.
I already mentioned yes there are people who share your opinion but there are also other people who do not share your opinion also great nurse players check gammalunatic for example. Which vods? I don't know the ones i posted to you a couple of pages ago as a direct answer.
How is me asking these people to KYF even remotely like a "1v1 rust me #########" scenario? That scenario happens when I get wrecked and want a rematch or something, or I've been personally spurned by the person in question. I'm just asking people to show me their alleged counters and so far no one has done it. I wouldn't even be playing the Nurse, I'm not even good at her. I'd get someone who I know to be good at her to do it. How you draw that as an ego challenge when I wouldn't even be involved in the game I have no idea.
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@GrootDude said:
@ScottJund I’ve read his comment carefully and I believe he wants a pro nurse to explain in detail why she needs changes. (I think)
I feel like I've already explained it. She ignores all high level chase mechanics that the foundation of the game is based on. You literally don't need to explain it any further. All high level gameplay is looping and mindgaming at various tiles. Nurse doesn't care about the thing that gives DBD any depth whatsoever.
Mention stealth pls. I dare someone.
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@ArecBalrin said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/589806#Comment_589806
That's just rephrasing the same thing I was criticising.
I expect someone who has won thousands of games with the Nurse to be able to articulate why they think anything about the Nurse. This is why some normal adults are dumber than a lot of normal children: the adults can't remember most of the days of their lives, so having more of them doesn't help them against kids who can.
An expert is listened to because they can give a superior explanation on their subject of expertise, not simply because they're an expert.
I'm gonna be honest I'm not sure what we're debating about.
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@ArecBalrin said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/589777#Comment_589777
I don't get why people do this; make an appeal to authority and expect it means the point has extra value because of it? If 'blah-blah one of the best Nurse players' and 'whosit studied game design', that makes the person advancing the argument by adopting their position take on the same burden and they just can't.
People who claim expertise for themselves or from others are not just taken at their word because of it; they actually have a higher standard expected of them. I expect them to be able to present better arguments first of all.
They're not taken at their word "just because of it" they're taken at their word because they've won like 6000 Nurse games in a row. These people happen to be streamers because by golly would you look at that they have documented proof of the things being discussed.
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@Sluzzy said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/589735#Comment_589735
Calling him a "pissed off killer main" is the double standards he is talking about all along. Everyone here that hates Nurse Sally are pissed off their usual 'loop here until he throws the pallet, then run to another loop' does not work on a particular killer.
And survivors really need to loop and escape every single game? A person would think diversity is a good thing but not in DBD apparently. Gotta play every match exactly the same way lol
Okay and what about some of the best Nurse players in the game saying she also needs a nerf?
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@[Deleted User] said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/589574#Comment_589574
Why is it that everytime you argue with somebody you can not argue the point but argue about something the person actually never said in the first place?
Everytime one gives you vods or whatever you choose to ignore it, do you even want to argue or just take part to throw in some arrogant comments? Other people disagree with you and think that for example nurse has more counterplay than spirit.
He actually showed that nurse is not OP because OP wouldn't require skill.
But it shows that nurse requires skill, if you are bad it you will not win for free or anything. OP would be the contrary people failing and being rewarded for it. That was with no perks btw you can check out emblem squad for example and honestly i haven't watched the videos... just skipped to the end to see the result. Emblems not all have ruin equipped but I do not think that you should argue that ruin is mandatory, people are free to take the perks they like. I dont play it on nurse.
What? I'm arguing his point that Nurse is balanced because she's hard to use. Making something hard to use is irrelevant to its balance. People will eventually learn to use it, then all you have left is what the killer can actually do.
Also what VODs are you talking about? I would love to see a bunch of evidence of godly Nurses getting destroyed.
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@ArecBalrin said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/589701#Comment_589701
This debate has already been done and those on the other side of it from me chose double-standards. Killers have had 'dynamic' use of multiple mechanics working in tandem labelled as 'exploits' which justified intervention from the devs and the threat of bans. The exact same standards do not apply to survivors when they loop or body-block; they get different ones.
The only difference between looping 'forever' and looping with a pallet-crutch is nothing, in practice. Looping forever only existed on-paper, or else someone somewhere would still be looping. The issue was not that it could last indefinitely, but that it could last the entire match: something which pallet-looping exactly replicates.
I've explained to you in summary what happened. I haven't made it 'sound like' anything. If you want more detail I can provide it, but my summurising has been accurate and not embellished in the slightest.
You are of course, still talking about a different subject to the one I pulled you up on: that of the misrepresentation of the game's post-release development. It can not at all be characterised as playstyles existing now simply because players learned them; survivors actively lobbied for the one never-changing playstyle which they prefer and the devs have for the most part given them everything they asked for. Not only that, but they gave them it usually in the specific form that they asked for.
The closest killers have ever got to getting this is when hatch-closing was introduced, but the devs couldn't give us it like that: they only put it in the live-build alongside removing the whole point why we had been requesting it in the first place. Now survivors are getting free unearned escapes and still hold games hostage.
Did this mad lad just compare body blocking to an exploit
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@Sluzzy said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/589651#Comment_589651
Remove nurse and spirit and all pallets? Or keep it the way it is and everyone is happy?
######### are you talking about
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@Sluzzy said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/589574#Comment_589574
If you say nurse breaks the game, then four good survivors break the game. You are not catching four good survivors 12 times on bloodlodge with a loopable killer!
..I..I know? What?
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He does have a cooldown. Its 3 seconds.
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@Stabbicus said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/589615#Comment_589615
Hey, it works on the Nurses I play.
But sure, be sarcastic and ignore advice so you can continue to whine for nerfs rather than actually trying to get better at the game.
You do you, and I'll be over here NOT trying to destroy DBD by screaming for nerfs to any Killer with even a drop of skill required to use/avoid.
I'm ignoring your advice because your advice is terrible.
But yes, this does work on bad Nurses, which since you admitted you are bad at survivor, I assume is all you are versing.
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@Stabbicus said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/589603#Comment_589603
Lol. I suck as Survivor, mate. But that's me being bad, not any Killer being OP.
But there's a trick to being chased by the Nurse:
Get a feel for when she will teleport; just before you think she will Blink, juke DIRECTLY BACK AT HER.
Most Nurse players don't think to look down to shorten their Blink, and will overshoot you. Heck, allot of skilled Nurses will not be able to react in time, either.
Sure; it's harder to lose a Nurse, but not impossible, and you can make a chase costly enough that your friendo's can pop a few gens, or she gives up and picks a new target.
I am both shocked and surprised to learn you are not good at the game to offer such fine gems of advice as "just run at the Nurse 4Head"
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@Stabbicus said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/589569#Comment_589569
Nurse has counterplay.
It's just not the same counterplay as every other Killer, and Survivors don't want to have to adapt, so they scream for nerfs.
They don't want to have to think 'What Killer am I facing?', they just want to have 4 Perks that counter 100% of Killers, and one set method to win 100% of matches.
Would you like to prove this Nurse counterplay in KYF?
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@Stabbicus said:
The Nurse IS NOT OP, because OP would mean low skill = high reward.
The Nurse takes possibly the most skill of any Killer, since you can easily over/under- shoot your target when using her power.
This makes her high skill = high reward and low skill = low reward. This is called 'Proper Balance' where, as you get better, you do better. It's a GOOD thing.
So say it with me 'The Nurse is not, and cannot be defined as, OP'
Stop screaming for Nerfs to decent Killers just because you don't want to change your play style and want to escape 90% of all matches. If Survivors had their way, they'd have 5 health states (to prevent tunneling, obviously), 2 free hook escapes, a 10 minute hook time (to prevent camping), and Sprint Burst would be a passive every Survivor has. Oh yeah, and there would be a free Key on every map to open a closed Hatch. (Yes, this was suggested on here)
lol ######### logic is that? "She's hard to use so its okay she breaks the game."
If you agree to that, you have to agree if they made a killer that required some unbelievable amount of speedrunner-tier mechanical finesse whose power just instantly killed all the survivors it would be okay because it would be extremely hard to do with an extremely high skill cap?
Like you gotta realize how dumb that argument is
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I love this forum :)
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@[Deleted User] said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/76539/to-all-people-saying-nurse-basekit-is-fine
I like this, i really do. I mean you know, I will probably make an upload where I play survivor, finish the game in 5min. Ask for a allout nerf on all survivors. Nice logic dude.
clap,clap
Hm yes yes indeed, what about the part where she can go through walls
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@NMCKE said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/588346#Comment_588346
She has counter play, it's just difficult, and you'll need to think like a Nurse player.
Nothing against the content creator, but some of those tips were downright stupid. Really, run past the Nurse while she's fatigued? Does she not have ears, #########? He also said you have to guess when they run behind cover which...you don't, just blink at the entry point LoS was lost and use the second blink to correct.
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@GrootDude said:
@ScottJund shall I fetch another screenshot?
i mean if you like posting useless things sure
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I swear to God if someone posts a screenshot of a 4k with a ######### killer and goes "SeE ThiS KilLEr is OvePowErEd ToO" I'm gonna lose my mind. None of those killers ignores all high-level mechanics have to avoid killers and if you say stealth I'm going to force you into a KYF and repeatedly pummel your Prestiged 3 Claudette Urban Evading ass into a Whispers-laden ground.
Joking aside, Nurse base kit is still too strong, but in the current state of the game, its not exactly a bad thing that she is too strong. You know she is too strong when people say "Just spread out and do the gens like the depip squad." All that is doing is proving that, once mastered, she is impossible to beat in a chase and to beat the Nurse you must do literally everything you can do to avoid encountering the Nurse. What you're ACTUALLY saying is the entire state of the game is not balanced time-efficiency wise, which is true, but that has nothing to do with the Nurse. No one is beating a godly Nurse in a chase, ever, which means the individual killer is overpowered, time efficiency discussion aside.
tld;r: Nurse is overpowered, but games can go so fast that she is an acceptable amount of overpowered.
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Just Omegablink Ebony Mori stream snipers every time they join your game and watch the amount of times you get stream sniped massively decrease.
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Why do you think purple flashlights are viable and the others are not
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@thesuicidefox said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/576586#Comment_576586
Maybe because I just don't buy into this idea that Spirit has no counter play. She definitely does. It's just every time someone makes a point about some counter play you just go "BLARG that's not real counter play". It's like those anti-vaxxers that just ignore plain evidence right in front of them. Let's go down the list...
1) Stealth. Yes it's a counter play option. You basically play cautiously and hide when the killer is near and/or move to a new location if the killer is looking for you. You always make a point that you can't stealth and do gens, which is false. You totally can, it's just that when you are doing a gen and you hear the killer coming you leave. You don't wait around the gen or do anything to draw attention to yourself. You just leave. Find another gen and work on that while the killer wastes time looking around the other gen for you. It's not optimal, I will agree to that, but you definitely can do gens and hide from the killer. It seems to me that your idea of stealth is just hiding in a locker or on the edge of the map doing nothing. Yea that's stealth, but its not PRODUCTIVE stealth.
2) Iron Will and Spine Chill. "OMG perks as counters" yea well here is the thing. THEY EXIST. You can't just look at things in a bubble and pretend that everyone plays perkless. Perks exist in the game and therefore you have to consider them when talking counter play. True it may be more difficult to counter play Spirit without these perks, but when you DO have these perks it makes a very VERY huge difference. I know, I use them both all the time. They are both very effective against many killers. When I get a Spirit I tend to not even have trouble with her because of these perks. It helps me stealth her AND it helps in a chase. I get Spirits, GOOD Spirits, to waste a lot of time on me, usually even escaping the chase. You can sit there and say "perks are not counter play" until you are blue in the face but until the devs introduce a perkless mode that's not a valid argument. It's like, I could argue that Hag has no counter play if you don't use Urban Evasion and a flashlight, but that's not true either is it? And even though Hag is a very strong killer, if you have UE and a flashlight it will be a cake walk.
3) Windows. Windows are very strong against the Spirit because she can't vault while phasing. So long as you don't do anything super predictable, you can use the window to get her to waste her phase walk and keep the chase going. You vault a window in the right spot now she has to go around and by the time she gets to the other side her power is gone. I'm sure you will make a point about how this isn't counter play either, but it very much is. I generally ignore pallets and just go for windows against the Spirit, and it works. With or without my perks it works. You just have to use the unpredictably, as running straight for a window, making it obvious you will vault, isn't going to work.
4) Unpredictability and reading skills. If you act in unpredictable ways then it will be a lot hard for the Spirit to catch you. She will be constantly coming out of phase walk at the wrong time, or missing a juke and then wasting her power. And if you can read your opponent, ie. predict what they are going to do, then you can act even more unpredictably. Doing weird stuff that wouldn't make sense against any other killer in a chase will throw off the Spirit player and give you more distance in a chase. Knowing what she is thinking and acting on that prediction will allow you to avoid getting hit out of phase walk.
My point here is that Spirit can be counter played, it's just none of these counter play options seem to be good enough for you. I don't know what kind of counter play you expect to have, but as someone that generally does not have a problem playing against Spirit (at rank 1 surv against good Spirit players, and as a rank 1 Spirit player) I can tell you she indeed does have counter play. It's just most people lack the skills necessary to really do it, particularly when it comes to #4. And refusing to use perks to counter a killer does not mean the killer has no counter play. It just means you refuse to engage in that counter play.
I really hate when people list "Stealth" as a counter to a killer.
You realize you are literally saying "Counter the killer by never actually encountering the killer the whole match." That's not you countering the killer, that's avoiding them entirely because there's nothing you can do once a chase starts.
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@miaasma said:
very thought provoking
why do we post here
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I completely agree it is balanced and don't want the perk touched.
That being said, I've complained about being DS'd 4 times in a match before because I didn't even tunnel. In fact, I played so well I downed people so fast their counters were still active and I got DS'd by not tunneling. That was annoying.
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On one hand, you shouldnt just parrot what a streamer says just because they're a streamer. On the other hand, a lot of them have far more experience in the game than most people, and you'd generally want to listen to experienced people over non experienced people, right? I don't get this thread. Its super simple. People with less experience look to people with more experience for advice in literally every facet of humanity.
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Yeah its definitely worse. I don't like it.
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@Acromio said:
It does have a downside: you have to play a mediocre killer in order to use it.
oh no
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The vast majority of the time she's just teetering between balanced over overpowered. In the hands of an extremely good Nurse, she is without a doubt overpowered.
Which is fine, btw. Its good that there is an answer to the strongest thing survivors can do - 4 man SWF acting like they're in a tournament.
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@Peanits said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/561015#Comment_561015
It's tricky because any tile that is good for huntress is bad for other killers. Other killers rely on LOS blockers to be able to mindgame, while the huntress needs clear LOS to be able to hit her hatchets. Striking a middle ground is very hard to do.
With that said, there's still a decent amount of variety in the new tiles, and they should hopefully play pretty well for both the huntress and the other killers.
While you are right about LOS enabling mind games, the changes to say, Shelter Woods don't enable mindgames, they just make Huntress work. You can mindgame a jungle gym but you can't mindgame a tree, of which there are six thousand more. Having open areas isn't bad if there are still mindgames able to be played at the actual tiles in the game. Huntress usually shines in between the tiles, not at them (depending on the tile at least)
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@Andreyu44 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/560577#Comment_560577
Thats what I thought .
Prior to this patch ,Ive faced an huntress and her lullaby wasnt directional.
A super unfun match cause the hitboxes are still broken and you couldnt understand where she was coming from which is a problem for a killer that can snipe you.
I hoped this problem would have been fixed soon...
What is the point of the lullaby if it isnt directional?
Considering how much weaker Huntress has gotten over time, I'm all for this change. I'd prefer normal movespeed but this works for now.
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@Paladin_Goo said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/538329#Comment_538329
Pallet looping is literally survivors only line of defense. That's like saying "survivors should have a counter to the killers weapon". While they do to an extent, there are all one-time use perks or items. Suggesting a perk that completely counters pallet looping, well, no. For balance purposes, countering isn't a thing, you want to close the gap, but not counter it. Spirit fury and enduring do that.
I'll have you know I am P3 Claudette main with Urban Evasion, Spine Chill, Premonition, and Alert, and I don't have to loop at all as I exit the match with 8000 points total.
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@MegMain98 said:
@vampire_toothy Grass definitely moves. Because I’ve tracked survivors that way by when grass or corn moves.
As a survivor I’ve heard her loud ass footsteps behind me when she was phase walking. That’s one way I knew she was coming when she had Prayer Beads. Prayer Beads are still an idiotic add-on though.
He meant the grass doesn't move due to the Spirit phasing over it.
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@MegMain98 said:
@ScottJund Iron Will is a pretty good perk to having against ANY killer. I track survivors movements based on sound a lot of the time whether it be injured sounds, footsteps, grass rustling, or corn moving. Whether you’re playing Spirit or Trapper not making sounds can really disorient a killer.
Spine Chill is also great against stealth killers like Myers or Wraith. I don’t personally use it but it has it’s purpose.
It’s not only useful against Spirit is the point I’m trying to get across.
I agree Iron Will is a great perk regardless. My point is, you shouldn't really balance a killer around being countered by a specific perk.
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@miaasma said:
when detective_jonathan vouches for you you know you've made it
I feel so bad for you lol. I know you're a great player and oh lord you are not in the right place to be talking about a killer having no consistent counter.
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@Poweas said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/528504#Comment_528504
@ScottJund I agree.
Also, what do you think of the Iron will and Spine chill combo vs a Spirit? I can demolish them using that.
Iron Will / sounds being broken atm definitely wreck her a lot, but then you're also just bringing in two perks to counter a supposed Spirit every game. (Not that Iron Will is bad)