Rydog
Rydog
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Wat
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Broadly speaking, I love the game. It's why I continue to play it, it's why I'm here on these forums, and it's why I criticize its faults (because I want it to be even better). I think the one-versus-many asymmetrical genre is a good one, and DBD does it better than anything else out there.
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@Micheal_Myers said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/789671#Comment_789671
the ability to do this:
https://wherethewildthingsare14.files.wordpress.com/2014/10/halloween.gif?w=580
At any time.
(And yes in this part of the movie he was technically in EW2 / EW3 NOT EW1)
That is a scene from a movie, not a game mechanic. In mechanical terms, a stealthed killer:
- Has no terror radius.
- Has no red stain.
- Cannot have their aura revealed.
That's the extent of it. Myers' tier 1 Evil Within falls into this category. Ghostface's stealth, Wraith's cloak, Pig's crouch, and Demogorgon's warp will all fall into this same bucket. The entire point of Undetectable was to create a quantifiable definition of what "stealth" means in terms of game mechanics.
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@Megaguardain said:
After 3.3.0 (the current PTB) it won't work on Killer who get Undetectable with their powers, like the Demogorgon, Pig, Ghostface, Wraith and Myers(?)
With the Pig, Ghostface and Wraith it's when they use their powers (Pig and Ghostface's crouch and Ghostface's Night Shroud I believe, and when the Wraith uses the Wailing Bell)
With the Demogorgon it's when it comes out of a Portal. I know Myers is affected, but I don't remember how.
Unless something has changed, this is absolutely false.
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Paragraph breaks, man.
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@Nicholas said:
Yeah I think it would be nice to see more general perks added to the pool. There's a lot of fun and silly potential for Perks to be made. Faster Totem Cleansing, Reveal your Aura to other Survivors while cleansing or healing someone, etc. Nothing super game changing but maybe some fun stuff for people to play around with.
The last thing we need with the current Bloodweb system is more perks.
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What you're describing does not apply to any current perk. All of them, even the "general pool," get unlocked via the Bloodweb in the same way.
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@Viracocha72 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/789827#Comment_789827
Yes, that's why I suggested awarding more emblems and blood points to make an incentive to cleanse them all. It seems I always hear people clamoring for a second objective well this would make it one.
Yeah but it's arbitrary. If there's no Ruin, nobody's going to bother. Ruin then becomes "mandatory forced second objective perk."
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Also @twistedmonkey -- it was on life support BECAUSE they dropped the ball so hard, so early, and so often. F13 had a FANTASTIC launch and a huge surge of interest, but the developers didn't maintain the momentum at all.
Sorry I get testy about this game -- I spent a LOT of time with it (I'm the guy who reverse engineered basically every mechanic in the game, and largely defined "the meta" such as it was). I wish it wasn't such a disaster.
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@twistedmonkey said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/789655#Comment_789655
But you have to look at how well the game was doing prior to all this happening. It had been on life support since not long after release. Let's be honest the lawsuit didn't change much apart from give them an excuse to not add content to a game that couldn't hold a player base. The game was buggy and plagued with hacker long before that patch.
Some may have been excited for the future content but that wouldn't have saved the game. Many may try it out but a new Jason or map doesn't hold people in a game long if the mechanics aren't something they enjoy.
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/789672#Comment_789672
Exactly it was a convienent time for it to happen as it gave them an excuse. They even said they wouldn't add content even if it the lawsuit was over quickly.
They stopped long before they had to as the suit wasn't affecting them when it was first brought about. The puzzle game put out that statement and that only became affected by the lawsuit some time after Gun stopped.
Your "life support" argument is part of how they bamboozled everyone. They continued to push the heck out of the physical disc versions that came out later, they secured PS Plus promotion, etc. The litigation didn't stop them.
They knew there was more money in that, and they plowed forward with it without properly tending to the health of the game. I don't begrudge them earning a living from their product, but they left their community holding onto a bunch of empty promises.
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I like how everyone who doesn't develop the game always thinks everything is easy.
Not to imply that Behaviour SHOULDN'T fix issues; it's just that this mentality is unbelievably myopic.
Oh, also the OP's idea is not good. Remove all information and effectively make it random? Seriously?
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@AokiiSenpaii said:
So. I am really confused and frustrated on how the ranking system is not working at all!
I've literally just had 3 rounds in which I did the following things:
Participated in 2 FULL Gen Repairs.
Unhooked 2 people safely.
Have been chased by the Killer for at least 4 minutes. Or in the First case 8 minutes.
Cleansed 3 totems.
Healed 5 health states.
Survived the most of the game or escaped Unbroken.
In each match I had around 20-25k bloodpoints.
AND I DIDN'T PIP. Excuse me but I think SOMETHING is wrong. >:/
It might be -- and I know this sounds crazy, but hear me out -- that the emblem system is extraordinarily bad.
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@twistedmonkey said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/789203#Comment_789203
Shooting themselves in the foot means nothing if the game is good enough as people have shown time and time again they would play it regardless. According to most complaints they are on essense saying DBD does the dame with a buggy game and questionable changes.
Take Friday as that was made on a pretence that the lawsuit wouldn't affect the game but that was info from the owners of the rights at the time. That wasnt the issue the game had though and neither was the price. People will pay money for a good game. The game started well but lost most of its playerbase within 1-2 months. It's wasn't a case of shooting themselves in the foot but rather the game for what it was didn't hold many peoples attention.
The Friday the 13th game developers used the ongoing litigation as cover to not address the overall health of the game (i.e. exploits and bug fixes), even though they later admitted that their hands were never tied in this regard. The only thing the lawsuit killed was their agency in creating and adding new content (characters, maps, etc.) to the game.
I believe they made their money, and then decided to bail when they saw that they had a convenient excuse to use as a scapegoat.
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Wat
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@Grandkurama said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/787928#Comment_787928
If you Prestige the killer you lose every perk and offering on him, he restarts at level 1 with a piece of bloody skin (Prestige 1 give the weapon) and trough the bloodweb you get slightly more rare things
The "slightly more rare things" bit has been debunked with extensive data, numerous times.
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@Micheal_Myers said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/787630#Comment_787630
But here's the issue, how's he a stealth killer if they removed the only stealth he had. (The undetectable of all perks)
He doesn't have a second ability. He easily is brought down to a C or a B tier. (Instead of staying an A tier).
They got to do something to compensate with his unneeded Nerf.
This is all stealth killers. Myers is not special, he will follow the same rules for what "stealth" means.
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I really just want perks to stop being sorted arbitrarily in two different alphabetical lists based on color. This is one of those thousand-cuts UX things that Behaviour is really bad with.
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@sorrowen said:
They made a unstable build somehow was it all the moving parts?
Yes, that's exactly what it was.
Also, they apparently elected to push out an Unreal Engine upgrade with the game update. No telling how many wrenches that threw into things, but it was probably not the best time to do that.
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Your reductive view of how game development works is wrong.
That said, I think it was definitely a mistake to tie a time-sensitive event to the launch of a major new system.
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You have a full minute to kick a gen, every time you hook somebody. That's already incredibly generous.
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It was a big mistake for them to tie such a time-sensitive holiday event to the launch of a major new system. And yes, they really fumbled with their communication timeline.
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Perks:
Live Deliciously
The Black Goat
Guide Thy Hand
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I really think first hook suicides (or any kind of hook suicide within the first X minutes or when all players are still alive) should carry the same penalty as disconnecting.
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I think it was a mistake to tie a time-sensitive, calendar-based event to a major new system AND an engine upgrade.
Like, why would you take that gamble with maximum potential that something major could go wrong? They should have just played it safe with the Halloween event, and repurposed last year's mechanics. Save the Archives-based event structure for Christmas, after the system has been rolled out.
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@Gibberish said:
DBD's grind is pretty insane, yeah.
Its the amount of grinding you would expect from a F2P game with exp boosters or whatever, not from an actual paid game.
It has always struck me this way too, yeah. It's just too much.
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Also @Irvin -- please don't misunderstand me, I am not arguing that the game is without some serious faults. Certain maps, items, etc. are very annoying to deal with.
For example, I really believe that the mori is essentially a canonized griefing mechanic that cleanly breaks the flow of the game with no upside for anyone (including the killer, who does not receive Sacrifice emblems for using it). I would be among those who would be happy if this mechanic were reworked entirely. I think it's stupid, and I don't like dealing with it or using it myself.
That said, I know it exists. I know that if I queue as survivor, I may have to deal with a mori, because that is a part of the game. By choosing to play, I accept that risk. I enjoy the game well enough that it is worth it, and if these kinds of mechanics made me so miserable or angry that I decided it wasn't worth playing, I would simply move on to a different game.
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@Irvin said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/787731#Comment_787731
That is a very poor mindset, game should be enjoyable for everyone.
Everyone is going to have a mechanic they dislike. Some people don't like moris, some people don't like Adrenaline, or Decisive Strike, or NOED, or Iridescent Heads, or Nurse, or Spirit, or Haddonfield, or stepping in a trap, or being the first one to get downed, or whatever it is that upsets them. It's a wide-ranging list, because there's a lot of stuff in this game. There is no way to "fix" the game that accounts for all of these subjective whims.
And the thing is, all of these mechanics are plainly there. At some point, something you personally dislike dealing with is going to be a factor in a given match. You agree to this when you sit down, load up the game, and queue into a lobby. You aren't getting blindsided by these things; you know they exist. The challenge, as it were, is for you to deal with these things when and if they come up. That literally IS the game. To disconnect when you are faced with something you personally don't like says more about you than it does about the game.
I have played this game for almost one full year, and I have never -- literally not one time -- disconnected from a match for any reason. If I didn't want to play Dead by Daylight (which would be the case if I were disconnecting from matches), I wouldn't play Dead by Daylight, I would play something else instead.
So, my conclusion is to heavily disincentivize this kind of behavior, so that the people who don't actually want to play the game, and accept it for what it is, can be encouraged to go find something else that suits them.
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Cool necro.
That said, @Irvin -- people disconnect because they are faced with a mechanic they don't like. If they can't accept that, I think they should just be discouraged from playing the game, because they clearly can't deal with it.
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I feel like Spirit punishes non-stealth. I like that the game provides a very threatening reason for players to use a stealthy play style, because we don't see enough of this.
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@GrootDude said:
I actually get extremely anxious around dogs that aren’t mine/my families.
...also, yeah, you better be terrified of these TOTES ADORBS HECKIN CUTE PUPPERS.
(That's Pickle on the left. She is a junkyard dog trapped in a show dog's body, and she is everybody's friend. That's Bosco on the right. He is 2/3 heart and 1/3 stomach, and he thinks he is a ferocious guard dog but is really a lovey-dovey.)
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@GrootDude said:
I actually get extremely anxious around dogs that aren’t mine/my families.
Is it because you're terrified that they will chew your tree arms?
Also: Spiders. It annoys my wife SO MUCH that I get as jumpy as I do around spiders.
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You monsters.
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As others have remarked, an "Operation Health" DBD equivalent would be a nice thing. My triage list:
- Evaluate the myriad pain points in the Bloodweb system, and rework the way perks are unlocked to make it more player-friendly and not take forever on a per-character basis. I have written about this extensively elsewhere (right here, in fact), and I am not going to repeat the whole thing here.
- Go over every menu and UX element with a fine-toothed comb, and apply some serious changes to everything, in an effort to make the game and its presentation less opaque overall. I could (and probably should) write a lengthy thread on this topic, because it seems to me that no one at Behaviour is leading any kind of UX effort in the game, and this is an area I have a lot of expertise on in my career as a video game consultant.
- Rework the entire emblem system, to make it easier for the average player to instinctively understand.
- Add some sort of reward incentive for seasonal ranks. I think Bloodpoints (or maybe a choice between Bloodpoints and Iridescent Shards, or some mixture of the two) would be enough. Do the same for Devotion ranks.
- Numerical buffs to underplayed killers, to bring their power level up and reduce the gulf between the top 4-5 killers and everyone else. I'm not talking "full rework" (as this is beyond the scope of something like this for Behaviour), but just tweak numbers for what they already have. Same goes for any really pernicious add-ons.
- Do a comprehensive pass on all perks, especially the really weak or degenerate ones like Insidious, Monstrous Shrine, Unrelenting, Slippery Meat, Sole Survivor, This Is Not Happening, etc. Make them better! Left Behind was a good example of how to do this the right way.
- Light map reworks, on maps that are really defective (I'm talking the MOST egregious stuff, like removing the Balanced Landing infinites in Haddonfield).
- Consider implementing a more aggressive stance toward disconnects (here is my suggestion).
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@Zixology said:
You were playing as one of the most annoying killers in the game. I can't really blame them.
Sure you can. If you're going to play Dead by Daylight, then play Dead by Daylight. This is the game. If you don't want to deal with a mechanic you might not like, then play a different game.
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I am habitually marked Invisible unless I am playing with friends, and I am not experiencing this problem, and never have.
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@Williamz said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/787301#Comment_787301
A experinced killer can check steam profiles to see if it's SWF. I've seen many folks do it and it they gonna dodge they'll dodge.
Meanwhile the killers that are actually trying to always improve and look for a challenge would prefer it if they would have time to sort their loadouts out if battling a four man group. Like myself. I don't mind SWF but I need time to sort my loadout.
I would venture to guess that it does not occur to the majority of players, at any rank, to check Steam profiles on a lobby-to-lobby basis. Subjectively, this is not something I would want to fuss with in every single match I play.
Also, how realistic do you think it's going to be, to coordinate builds with three other strangers in chat, inside of a 45-second countdown? I think I can comfortably predict that a bunch of them just wouldn't talk at all. I get what you're saying, and maybe this would be useful in certain circumstances, sure. For what it's worth, nothing keeps you from just doing this as the game exists, right now, for survivors who are willing to coordinate with you.
More information about player levels and group composition would just encourage more lobby-dodging, which we've already seen based on the dumb decision to display all survivors' ranks to each other. I'm not saying YOU would do this, but it would most definitely lead to an increase in this behavior across the board. An extra prompt to make you ask whether or not to bring Bond is not worth this downside.
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@Williamz said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/787293#Comment_787293
so I can adapt my perks and loadout if it's a full team of swf.
How so?
And which do you think would be more prevalent: what you describe, or more people dodging?
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What utility would that serve, other than to make people dodge the lobby?
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Sounds annoying. For what it's worth, there are five different Springwood maps, just like there are five different Autohaven Wreckers or Coldwind Farm maps. The Springwood maps are just named very similarly by comparison.
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Wat
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@CashelP14 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/785586#Comment_785586
A good example of this is Adrenaline. A year and a half ago it was not the meta and no one ever considered getting it changed. After the healing change it became meta and now it needs "balanced". Once something becomes meta eventually someone will want it balanced.
This is the sort of thing that a lot of people crowing about "balance" don't understand. To those people, I say: Do a mental exercise and try to logically walk through what would happen if a meta perk, and let's use Adrenaline as an example, were "balanced," AKA "nerfed to the point that it is not considered useful enough to run on an optimized survivor build." Here's how I think it would look (perhaps slightly far-reaching in some areas, in the interest of illustrating how the meta would shift):
- Adrenaline gets nerfed. Let's say that it no longer adequately serves the purpose of providing a convenient and reliable endgame heal. Now there is a power vacuum where this is concerned.
- Survivors start running the next-best direct self-healing perk, which I hope we can agree is Inner Strength (since it is low-effort and skips Mangled mechanics).
- Iron Maiden becomes meta for killers, and survivors start complaining for a nerf to that next. Barbecue & Chili is indirectly buffed because of Iron Maiden, too. (Also, a surge of renewed complaining about Hex perks begins, because every totem on the map dies a quick death.)
- Let's say there's an Inner Strength nerf that renders it suboptimal enough to fall out of favor, and then everyone starts running We'll Make It or Deliverance. Killers start complaining about healing speed and/or their lack of empowerment to strongly endanger their hook targets. Facecamping becomes a far more prevalent thing as a deterrent to these perks.
- More survivors starts running Kindred. Killers call for Kindred nerfs, and really ratchet up the complaints about gen rushing.
- After a gen speed slowdown, survivors start bringing Prove Thyself, and in turn start complaining that Discordance is now too strong.
And so on. Like I said, some of this reaches a bit far in its speculation; my point is that the wheel is going to turn in some directions you probably would not consider, because none of these mechanics exist in a vacuum. Wouldn't you really just rather deal with Adrenaline as it exists, in this situation?
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I am unfamiliar enough with Legion's add-ons that I had to do a double take when I saw the thread title. :D
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@KrustyNuggets said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/787009#Comment_787009
Dude, we understand bugs happen in video games. But since 2016 every time something is added or changed in this game MORE bugs are added. They constantly refuse to fix several bugs in the game (not being able to heal as an example). It's almost like they didn't test the new content until the day before release. If they had tested it sooner, as in a week or two before release, you would think a dev team with half a brain could have it fixed before release. I've never seen a game that constantly creates so many bugs like this one. It's a joke that every other game out there has their Halloween event going on now, but DBD more than likely won't have theirs until AFTER Halloween.
I get what you're saying, and I do think it was a mistake to tie a time-sensitive calendar event to the launch of a major new system. I think this is the root of why a lot of people are THIS upset about this particular update.
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@Peanits said:
I wouldn't confuse passion for hatred. People who don't like the game leave, people who like the game and want it to be better stick around and criticize it. Negative feedback is still good to have.
Pretty much exactly where I'm coming from here, whenever I'm complaining about the stupid oppressive grind, or whatever annoying mechanic. I love the game enough to care, and I continue to enjoy playing it even if I have issues with this and that.
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What do you want from them? If they had gotten into nitty gritty details, you'd still be here complaining. It's a cluster of issues with an engine update; this conveys pretty much everything that laymen will find useful.
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What you're describing is not a QOL change, it is a buff. Those are two different things.
A QOL change would be like "You don't have to mash space bar during the struggle phase." The same thing is still happening, but it's less annoying for the player.
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@Mochan said:
It's probably just a combination of two things.
- You're unlucky. I know. Been there.
- You don't know how to stealth.
Unfortunately in this game being stealthy isn't highly-rewarded, but if you want to avoid getting caught first you have to know some of the basics.
I do not generally endorse hiding at the start of a match, it makes everything harder for everyone. You should always keep busy. Not necessarily doing gens, but you need to be productive and not just hiding in a locker.
Darktrix suggested doing a gen for a few seconds, then moving on to the next. This is perfectly fine. You are not being useless and are still contributing to production, and you are setting up distractions for the killer. If you are playing an inexperienced killer they may even start breaking each gen you work on (then if you have Alert viola game set match).
If you can't even get started because you keep getting found first, here are some things to know:
- Understand how scratchmarks work. Don't run around unless you know it's safe. Just walk if the killer is nearby. Scratchmarks are a trail of breadcrumbs that lead him right to you. Bring Fixated if you can to learn how it works.
- Don't start working on the gen you're right beside. That's more a tech for advanced survivors. Instead, cut a path to the other side of the map (that's where the killer probably started) and start a gen there. Or look for totems --> Safer alternative. When moving hide behind cover or hug the edges of the map (not preferred takes longer)
- User perks for evasion. Learn how to use Spine Chill. It is the best perk for your problem. The next best is Urban Evasion. But that's an advanced perk that needs a lot of good technique to use properly. Most people misuse it. But better than nothing.
Now some people mentioned never to run to a generator. This is just playing overly cautious. It's bad for your team and your development as a survivor. You should run around all the time as long as you know it's safe. At first it's hard to know when it's safe, but as you get more experienced you'll learn when the killer is nearby (not necessarily terror radius) and you figure out more and more when the actual safe times are and when they aren't.
I don't want to teach people to become immersed people too scared to do anything and always hiding at the edges of the map. Stealth isn't about that.
This! I always love to start a survivor match by scouting around, hopefully knocking down a totem or two, and scouting buildings and the killer shack so that I know where the basement has spawned.
I (rightly) assume the killer is going to immediately start patrolling gens, so I'm almost never gonna jump on one as soon as I spawn. Broadly speaking, you're in the safest position at the start if you can manage to get within proximity of a big landmark building, since that sets you up for maximum evasion potential while you decide what gen to work on.
If I'm running Alert (which is an extraordinarily useful and undervalued perk), I tap gens to create a breadcrumb trail, so I can constantly keep tabs on the killer's route.
P.S. @Mochan You are consistently one of the most helpful voices of reason on these forums.
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I've been hearing this kind of complaining about balance since I was a preteen, playing Street Fighter and Mortal Kombat in arcades.
"Balance" is a snipe hunt. It's not easy, or even really achievable, in an asymmetrical game of any real scope. Every change has ripple effects that inevitably lead to more changes, and it is impossible for even the most savvy developer to account for every single variable in a game that has hundreds of them in countless combinations. There will always be "unbalanced" aspects on both ends of the spectrum. That's just what is.
I'm not saying that it isn't incumbent on the developer to fix the most egregious bits -- it is -- but it's more constructive to be realistic about the situation instead of resorting to this pie in the sky mentality. You are not going to wake up one day to find everything magically, perfectly balanced to whatever subjective standard is kicking around in your head.
With that in mind, what you're left with is a series of systems that you either choose to deal with as-is, or move on from if you're just that unhappy about it. My advice is to make a conscious effort to improve your play, build in a way that accentuates your strengths as a player and allows you to exploit those strengths to the fullest, and gradually develop habits and game plans to handle problem mechanics.
It's healthy to learn from mistakes, and to LEARN HOW TO LEARN from mistakes. I don't mean this in a condescending way, but I assume that a lot of people here are young, and just don't have the life experience to understand this idea -- and complaining about "balance" is an easier route to take that deflects blame. Break that habit, because otherwise it's going to follow you to other games, too.
And it's an ongoing process, regardless of whether you have 2 hours or 2000 hours in the game. Time doesn't equal mastery.
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I only do it if I am trying to buy time or provide some sort of cover for teammates who haven't escaped yet, even if it's in the form of making the killer wonder "Should I go look for that other person who's still in the match?"
But if I'm trying to finish a daily or I think my safety is compromised, I'm not sticking around any longer than I have to.
