RpTheHotrod
RpTheHotrod
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@TheMidnightRidr said:
Don’t play the mode, then. Crisis averted.
30 minute queue times in 2v8. 20 minute wait times in normal queue. The game is practically unplayable every time this mode shows itself.
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@LockerLurk said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3930339#Comment_3930339
If that's happening and that's true, why are Killers like Trapper still holding a 60% on average success rate across all MMR levels according to BHVR's own data?
Nightlight isn't BHVRs data - thats people self reporting, and not many are going to bother reporting their own losses. We have not had an offical updated breakdown for all killers in some time. There's a reason for that. It's also clear to see my statement is true. Every recent killer has had some sort of mobility/dash feature built into their kit, though houndmasters was in the form of a dog dash - at least they tried to be creative on that one. Springtrap will likely have one, as well.
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I still feel it was a spectator mode kind of thing. Im hoping it's a post match "rewarch" option. Would be great at cheat reporting.
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I've seen a few p100 cheaters. I know they could cheat that a while back, but I'm not sure about today. I've also seen cheaters flying in the air with those old-school legacy skins.
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He's a no mobility m1 killer. They've been slowly phasing them out of the game for a while. The focus in modern dbd is to expect all killers to have some sort of mobility and balance around the assumption that eventually people will only play killers with mobility. Survivors will get more haste to stay competitive vs all the mobility and so on. Eventually, the old-school m1 killers will effectively no longer exist.
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Honestly, I think that's fair. One of the things I focus on as survivor in 2v8 is being scout and ensuring shack pallet is always available. It's pretty ridiculous how effective it can be. Seen a lot of 8 escapes when you ensure god pallets are constantly being re-created.
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@Callahan9116 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3929050#Comment_3929050
Didn't know that. Weird
Aye, they got the license from FunWorld to use the ghost face mask. The Scream movie also got the license from FunWorld, as well. Long story short, the mask itself belongs to FunWorld. Scream paid to use the mask and then made their own story\movie\characters. BHVR likely couldn't just do a Scream license since Scream doesn't own the mask itself, so if they wanted to do a Scream license, they'd probably have to pay for both the Mask license from FunWorld AND the Scream owners for Scream characters. Probably too expensive for a single chapter, so they just licensed the mask itself then made their own "homebrew" character which isn't related to the Scream movie.
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@krazy_ivan said:
I'm grateful to the devs for adding more killers to the 2v8 roster, however ghostie's reveal mechanic remains wonky and inconsistent in 2v8, if this mechanic was looked at before adding him to 2v8 it sure doesn't show, add to that a new reveal bug has now propped up (at least in 2v8, I haven't played him in 1v4 since his addition to 2v8).
Aside from a buff and slight re-work (which is sorely needed but a subject for another thread) at the very least the reveal mechanic needs to be looked at moving forward, a licensed killer should not go this long without fixes since his release.
His reveal definitely needs to be worked on. It's very frustrating and sometimes really difficult to play him viably when survivors are able to reveal him through walls, and in some cases, even reveal him when he's entirely BEHIND them. It makes dodging out of sight pretty much impossible. It doesn't help that survivors got a buff against him (one of the weakest killers in the game) that let's survivors keep their "reveal" progress on him for a while even if he does somehow manage to dip out of sight. That means once he pops back out again, he's near instantly revealed.
https://youtu.be/tBjdJ31CgwkAt the very least, they need to make it where if he breaks LOS, then the revealing progress ceases immediately. Either that, or make it take slightly longer to reveal to counter latency.
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@Callahan9116 said:
I don't think he's actually liscensed, is he? We ALL know who he is though
Technically he is just as far as using the mask. He's not licensed as a Scream character, however.
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@Skillfulstone said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3928598#Comment_3928598
By any chance, did this happen on R.P.D. and was Blight (with birkin skin) the other Killer?
Was on Ormand the snow lodge map with legion as the other killer.
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@OPXtreme_ttv said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3928793#Comment_3928793
But if there's a report function for harassment, why have an anonymous mode? Anonymous shouldn't exist, its really just a tool used to harass people without consequence
Because BHVR isn't going to cyberstalk you after the match - players do.
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@Jtflorencio said:
P100 Ghost Face here: Ghost Face is one of the weakest killers in DBD and yet he was nerfed in 8VS2 mode YES! He is worse in 8VS2 than 4vs1, he needs to recover the cooldown a little faster and the speed to expose the survi too and most importantly this Addon has to be Base 10% / Semi-Base 5% in 4vs1 as 8vs2
They need to stop with the semi basekit buffs and just make things for him fully basekit. Why? He typically needs a lot of the addon powers to be more viable, and the problem is that with partially basekit, you end up still being weaker than what the original addon was. This means you end up still having to equip the addon anyway to maintain the old power boost you'd get running the addons pre-partial basekit.
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@itslansu said:
I was playing 2v8 with a friend and I Bound attacked at someone with Wesker's ability. The animation looked a bit off the first time I slam the survivor into the rock. It showed my character hooking the survivor into the hook while he's getting lifted up, and then it's fine, and then the survivor comes back to my shoulder as if I was carrying him again.
Another survivor came in to drop a palette on me but it just moved me a bit to the side. The same when that other survivor tried vaulting over to move me.
My friend and I ended up running the timer until all the survivors get killed, the game could not end because I am still carrying the survivor so I had to quit. When I quit, nothing happened as my friend said I was still in the game so he had to quit too and we got a minute penalty for quitting. There was no other way to leave.
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/OGG07CA99H3D/screenshot-2025-05-16-113833.png
I saw this last night. Wesker had someone stuck on their shoulder, so they just DC'ed. The bot that took over then just stood there not even moving for the rest of the match. This forced the remaining killer to do 1 v 8. Attempting to blind the killer to have the survivor get dropped did NOT work. In the end, everyone else escaped, but I stayed in to allow the remaining killer to get a kill. However, after spectating, the end game collapse eventually ran out of time, but the game didn't come to a close. It just effectively kept the match going even well after the end game collapse finished. The game only ended once the remaining killer player DC'ed. This gave the survivor stuck on the shoulder escape credit.
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@Langweilig said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3928455#Comment_3928455
Only to clarify because I think I chose my words poorly. I want the not looking thing as a killer perk one day with 5 % haste.
Oooo as a perk. Interesting idea. My only concern is it being used on killers who already have ways to travel fast, but then again, I suppose those killers would likely simply not use that perk in leui for another perk.
Im all for options. Im curious how people would use such a perk.
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@Langweilig said:
I would like that. I also want the Fearmonger class from 2 vs 8 as perk, where you get 5 haste when nobody is looking at you.
Any kind of speed would help. I thought about the whole not looking thing originally, though I figured that would just encourage everyone to look at him more often, especially in chase. It'd be harder to pull off surprise stalking if there is a reason to stare him down even when he isnt in Night Shroud.
Regardless, he needs some sort of way to get around the map faster and that would help it, too.
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@jedimaster505 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3927578#Comment_3927578
Do yourself a favor and stop digging yourself a hole with this convoluted nonsense. Yes, a 25% kill rate means an average 1/4 "win" rate. The game is basically 4 1v1's with the killer each match. If he kills 1 survivor, then he wins 1 1v1 and loses 3 1v1's. The killer "wins" every time he kills a survivor. This isn't difficult to grasp. The primary objective of the killer is to kill, and the objective of the survivor is to survive/escape. The MMR system itself, as designed by BHVR, determines "wins"and "losses" based on # of escapes/kills. So the killer has a potential to win/lose 4 times per match. Saying the killer requires a 3K to "win" is just stupid. We are not talking about a single match, but all matches by the entire player base. The killer wins against every survivor that he sacrifices, and that averages out heavily in his favor across all matches.
Your second paragraph fails to take into account the fact that the game is balanced for the killer to compete with all 4 survivors as a unit. The killer succeeds at his objective well over half of the time, assuming the survivor team as a whole is equivalent skill to the killer. This kind of balance is unheard of in other successful PvP games, which actually require both sides to use skill to win, instead of being handed free kills just because BHVR wants to sell more DLC and make killers "scary" (let's be real though, for such a large company, it is primarily the profit motive calling the shots).
No, the killer does not win roughly "half" his matches when killing 2.5 survivors/match. You are just rounding down the number to make it look balanced, when it isn't. He wins well over half of his matches, on average. Yes some games he will get only a 0-1K, but more often he will get 3-4Ks.
A "draw" is simply when in a given match, the killer wins 2 1v1s and loses 2 1v1s. Again, not hard to grasp. But when you take the average across all matches, the killer has by far the advantage when it comes to succeeding at his objective (which is obviously, to kill survivors). The average result is not a draw, it is heavily killer-sided, as shown by the 60% kill rate.
If the escape rate were 50%, then the killer would have a 50% probability to kill any given survivor, on average. This would also mean that the game were properly balanced, fair, rewards skill expression on both sides, applies game theory by balancing challenge and reward to create a flow state (a.k.a. the game is fun). Instead, BHVR has gone the route of turning their game into a gambling machine which is boring for killers, and frustrating for survivors, because it happens to be the case that this is highly profitable.
Your attempt to make the game appear "balanced" when it is very obviously heavily killer-sided is very obtuse and pedantic.
Aight. I took it seriously for a while, but I stopped reading after you claimed the killer wins a match after getting a single kill. Sure, he succeeds in one of his 1 v 1s, but he still has 3 more opponents to face. End of the match, he'll need a majority of his opponents sacrificed to get a personal win, while survivors need only escape in their personal win. You're conveniently forgetting there are 4 opponents total the killer must face. Maybe you're just very unfamiliar with asymmetrical game design?
Let's say a killer player plays 1,000 matches, and in every single one of them, he kills a single person. According to you, him having that 25% kill rate, means he wins 1 out of 4 of his matches...man, if you genuinely believe that, I don't know what to tell you. Heck, with your logic, a 25% kill rate is a 100% win rate since a survivor died.
I already laid out the math, as well as laid out what BHVR has stated the game is designed around. If you don't grasp it at that point, and are disregarding the math behind it, disregarding BHVR's explanation of how the matches are designed, and disregarding what the majority of the community has accepted, then there's not much point discussing this further.
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@AlreadyTracer said:
I've been playing a LOT of solo queue survivor recently (for both fun and challenges)
My escape rate is ridiculously high and most of my deaths are on purpose to get other people out. The reason? I do gens. I've been avoiding taking chases because the only consistent factor is myself, and I don't want to leave the objective to trash. I've just been running Weaving Spiders and a resilience build with a toolbox. Injured all game and doing just fine. Hell, I'm not even hiding or playing immersed.
So yes, I agree. It's definitely player quality if that's all it takes to win. Buffing gen speeds doesn't matter when the survivors aren't touching them to begin with
I almost entirely play solo queue. I dont see what the fuss is about on it being difficult. Usually the only times I ever get sacrificed is because of deciding to do bodyblocks or risk trying to get someone hooked in the endgame. I have a ton of bp, so I'll even accept a hook trade in the endgame collapse to get the other person out of the match.
Sure, you have less communication, but we weren't supposed to have communication to begin with. Thats part of the fun, trying to work out plans with others doing their own thing.
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Reshade in itself isn't too bad, but it certainly allows for blatant cheating such as seeing the red stain through walls and making areas specifically designed to be dark to no longer be dark making it easier to spot characters. I wish they'd just ban it and be done with it.
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@Bradcore said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3927785#Comment_3927785
Dude, I played the game when it was released. I've read all of the stories. The worst game of all time status comes mostly from legend and people who have never played the game. It had a terrible development cycle and was released at a bad time. It was unnecessarily difficult to figure out. It was sub part for its time, but it also came out when everyone was getting sick of Atari due to the amount of garbage games getting pumped out. But it is far from the worst game of all time.
I didn't say it was the worst game, I said it's officially the worst game. Im sure there's some real stinkers out there not on the record, ha. It was a commercial and critical failure, and many believe it contributed to the video game industry crash of 1983. That's an impressive accomplishment. Not sure why you're arguing this - a very strange hill to die on.
That being said, Tanks will always have a special place in my heart!
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@Bradcore said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3927586#Comment_3927586
Nah. E.T. wasn't a bad game. Once you get the hang of the controls, it's pretty good.
Just saying it's official the worst video game of all time. Not even joking- look it up.
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Officially? Atari's "E.T."
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@jedimaster505 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3927302#Comment_3927302
These are some crazy mental gymnastics and I've read this nonsense before since you're just parroting what you've read so I'll quickly refute it.
Even at the highest MMR, against the sweatiest SWF squads, the game is still somewhat killer-sided (48% escape rate). However, your sweaty high MMR comp-level 4 man SWF is the vast minority of the player-base, so that means that in your average pub match there is an abysmal escape rate and a high kill rate. And no this isn't only "newcomers", this is a majority of the player base ranging from beginners to seasoned vets. A single "newcomer" on a team with 3 vets that have thousands of hours each, can easily guarantee a loss for the entire team, as the killer can just target the weak link to win.
Your win condition is just stupid. Killers kill roughly 60% of time on average. That means they "win" 6/10 of their matches overall. Heavily killer-sided. Not to mention that BHVR pulls a PR stunt with their stats by excluding matches with DC's, which are all too often a 4K sweep by a Nurse, Blight, or other broken killers like Kaneki that are purposely made easy to win with to increase DLC sales. This kind of balancing is literally unheard of in other popular PvP games, where the mechanics are actually balanced to give both sides a fair game. Even if 2K is a "draw" for killer, that still counts as a loss for 2 survivors, which your broken logic is ignoring.
Oh yeah, I play both sides. Killer it's very easy to 3-4K consistently. Getting equivalent results as a solo survivor (75-100% average escape rate) is far, far, far more difficult to do.
Sorry to tell you, but your math is way off.
A 60% kill rate does not mean he wins 6/10 matches. By that logic, does that mean a 75% kill rste means he wins 3 out of 4 matches? Of course not, it's because ALL of his matches. If he had a 25% kill rate, he wins 1 out of 4? No, thats a 0% win rate. If he had a 10% kill rste. He wins 1 out of 10? It doesn't work that way.
First, 48% escape rate is ridiculous considering there's 4 survivors. Let's put it into perspective. If there was 1 killer and 1 survivor, then the balanced escape rate is 50%. However, let's say there are now TWO survivors, obviously, BOTH of them having a 50% escape rate wouldn't be fair to the player who has 2 opponents. The more survivors there are, the more EACH survivor's escape rate MUST decrease to maintain balance. However, we don't have just 2 survivors, we have 4 survivors. That maths out to each survivor needing an 38.5% escape rate. This isn't me "repeating what others have said", this is literally the math. If each survivor with 4 survivors had a 50% chance to escape, for example, then the killer's chance to win would be in the 30's percentile. Imagine flipping a coin 4 times. What are the chances you'd get at least 3 tails after, say…100 flips? Not very often!
As for a 60% kill rate, that means on average they only get 2.4 kills per match. A 3K is required for a killer to win. For the sake of easier math, let's just say the kill rate is 62.5%. That's an even 2.5 kills per match on average. That means, over the course of several matches, they would win roughly half of their matches. I'm hoping you at least understand the basics of averaging, as I really don't want to have to break the math down further on something as basic as that.
Also, another thing you failed to understand is that there is no draw in a 1 vs 4 individual players match each with their own win condition. If there is a 2K, then the killer failed to win, 2 survivors lost, and 2 survivors won. You can't draw on 1 on 1 situations in DBD - survivors either escape or get sacrificed - it's very binary. Which survivor exactly did he tie with? You cannot answer that because there are no ties. Now, if this game was actually the survivors being a team that wins\loses together, then that would make room for ties and each survivor escape rate would math out to 44.2%. However, BHVR has already made it very clear over the past few years from comments and clarifications that survivors are NOT a team and are instead 4 distinct individual players each with their own goal and individual win condition. That's why it never says Survivors Win! or Survivors Lose! at the end. It's an individual report on if you escapes or not. Working together increases their odds, but they are also welcome to go at it solo. That's also why there are perks that exists that actively work against working as a team (such as sole survivor). That's also why some of their advertisements ask things along the lines of "will you help other survivors, or will you look only out for yourself?"
You can poke fun and laugh at the math all you want, but the math is math. 1 killer vs multiple opponents in which each of those opponents only have a single and same opponent clearly had to have a reduced escape rate to MAKE the game balanced. That's an asymmetrical game design. If they each had a 50% chance to escape, then the killer would practically never win. If there were 1,000 survivors, do you seriously think every single one of them should have a 50% chance to escape and the game be balanced? Of course not. The more survivors, the less the escape chance. That's not imbalance, that IS balance.
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@jedimaster505 said:
The game is already heavily killer sided as BHVR intends. You do not need yet another hand out.
Only for newcomers. It's survivored sided once everyone has experience. A 60% kill rate means having one average 2.4 kills a match. That means killers getting a win slightly under half of their matches. For the game to be mathematically balanced, each survivor would need a 38.5% escape rate. Right now, experienced players numbers reported by BHVR has solo queue having a 40% escape rate all the way up to 4 man squads having a 48% escape rate...nearly 10% more than the balance line. The game is not killer sided XD
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I've been saying this for over a month. I've been getting matches with people in the UK despite being in the US.
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@NarkoTri1er said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3926665#Comment_3926665
so reports in matches where people were exploiting bugs with game letting us know action has been taken against "Exploiting" don't actually result in anything?
That's up in the air. Mandy here claimed on the forums that getting feedback that actions took place only means that the report was looked at and doesn't necessarily mean a ban happened. However, the official BHVR twitter\X posted that it means someone you reported was banned, but not necessarily due to YOUR report. Conflicting info, we've gotten.
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I used to love playing underdogs, but BHVR is hellbent on making them as unfun and frustrating as possible. That being said, playing solo queue survivor is still a load of fun.
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@LockerLurk said:
Y'all are keeping track of different gen spawns now?
Tis what smart players do. Map knowledge is pretty important.
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@ChuckingWong said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3926958#Comment_3926958
Now just to clarify, I almost entirely play solo queue,
Not calling you out but… this match you arent lol. This is also pretty old of a clip, 3 Distortion stacks, RIP.
Nice totem hole though for sure.
But yea its something I have been a big proponent for, hard nerfs. Sadly people dont agree on the forums that she needs a hard nerf to her kit.
This is coming from someone who mained her for years and its just silly the kinds of hits you get.
Faster killers though, you really just dont have many options. Even weskers dash is enough to zone you out of options. (not saying wesker is imbalanced, im just saying it doesnt have to be nurse tier for chase control to be in the killers hands)If you're in an area with little loop potential, alarm bells should already be going off. I try to always position myself where IF they do show up, I have options.
Oh for sure. Its just you dont know that always due to LOS + no WOO, comms.
Like I already clearly stated, I almost entirely play solo queue. That was WAY back when (as you pointed out), and those people were just random survivors that invited me into their discord after a match.
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@Neaxolotl said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3926954#Comment_3926954
But then you'll do same with sounds anyway, it's directional and changes in volume, should be same amount of information as simply seeing totem aura
I was talking about from a distance. If you're within audible range, I could see them adding an icon popping up on the UI that there is a boon nearby.
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@ChuckingWong said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3926915#Comment_3926915
Yea I mean there is a couple problems with it as well think you touched on the last one
1) It's not in the literal sense, but if you dont want to deal with it, the game forces you to take stuff like WOO as you just cant comm/coord
2) Perks become the answer to game design flaws/lack
Like heres this clip from just a few minutes ago. I could have gone down pretty much anywhere or gotten hit. This is just one example, albiet nurse, where I really dont have a choice.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BBiDsIuWJMU
I just have to delay and …
wherever that delay leads me = me down
Obviously nurse, but there are more examples where I just dont have a choice what happens here. This situation was entirely up to this nurses skill.
This billy you have a BIT more agency but again, its a top tier killer so you dont really have a choice where to go down, you just delay them on what you have surrounding you.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1LLeLO4KsTk
Or this one where I dont really have a choice I only have openings to move somewhere based on billys power
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uaFiiBqOFDk
Like I am stuck at these rocks until skill issue applies for him I cant go anywhere. Luckily I found an opening and then made it to shack and fake looked straight and spun. I didnt have shack as an option until he made his move several times here. I had to wait.
I feel like what you are talking about where survivors have more choice to go down, is on the weaker killers in chase. Which is a bit more true.
But also depending on whats available as you and I touched on earlier.
And of course skill, can only be so humble on my end. As well as the killers too its not just mine.Just was able to watch your vids. Well done! While those killers have a blatant advantage of being able to surprise you (and in turn make it easier for you to be out of place), do at least keep in mind that when facing those killers, that's something to consider. If you're in an area with little loop potential, alarm bells should already be going off. I try to always position myself where IF they do show up, I have options.
Speaking of nurse, you'll love this one!
https://youtu.be/B3Yyevr6zFo -
@Neaxolotl said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3926935#Comment_3926935
I don't even see any real problem in it being easier to see, the balance factor is always time it takes to travel to it, not if you can find it or not
Seeing it from a distance essentially would show the killer where the survivor's area of operation is, or there "secret" healing spot. That would be too much information for free.
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@ChuckingWong said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3926915#Comment_3926915
Yea I mean there is a couple problems with it as well think you touched on the last one
1) It's not in the literal sense, but if you dont want to deal with it, the game forces you to take stuff like WOO as you just cant comm/coord
2) Perks become the answer to game design flaws/lack
Like heres this clip from just a few minutes ago. I could have gone down pretty much anywhere or gotten hit. This is just one example, albiet nurse, where I really dont have a choice.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BBiDsIuWJMU
I just have to delay and …
wherever that delay leads me = me down
Obviously nurse, but there are more examples where I just dont have a choice what happens here. This situation was entirely up to this nurses skill.
This billy you have a BIT more agency but again, its a top tier killer so you dont really have a choice where to go down, you just delay them on what you have surrounding you.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1LLeLO4KsTk
Or this one where I dont really have a choice I only have openings to move somewhere based on billys power
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uaFiiBqOFDk
Like I am stuck at these rocks until skill issue applies for him I cant go anywhere. Luckily I found an opening and then made it to shack and fake looked straight and spun. I didnt have shack as an option until he made his move several times here. I had to wait.
I feel like what you are talking about where survivors have more choice to go down, is on the weaker killers in chase. Which is a bit more true.
But also depending on whats available as you and I touched on earlier.
And of course skill, can only be so humble on my end. As well as the killers too its not just mine.I legitimately feel the nurse breaks the game balance. They can bypass pretty much every feature in the game that's designed to make the game fair. Thats definitely a problem, and I definitely think she needs to be reworked or, at the very least, nerfed. With nurse, Survivors have very little control or choice in the flow of the match and thats a huge problem.
I'll say i had a weird match vs a nurse yesterday. We were on the stranger things map. I had the duty of Care perk along with the perk that gives me longer injury speed time along with being able to self heal in the basement. We would focus on a gen, I'd ensure I'd get a protection hit. Suddenly all survivors would just run at 100 mph well beyond a follow up blink diatance, and since I run 3 seconds longer, I'd also be out of range. Then I'd heal in basement, then we'd rinse and repeat. We did this until she ran out of gen regressions on that gen. She could only ever get a single hit in, then everyone would just group haste speed off into the distance, heal up, and return. She surrendered after she ran out of regression events. Was such a bizarre silly situation. That new perk is ridiculous XD
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I tend to view the game as a halfway point between a party game and a competitive game. It's a partetitive game.
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@Neaxolotl said:
There is plenty of hex perks that does this, I'm not sure why it cannot be applied to boons too
Especially if we gonna pretend boon sounds are super loud and obvious, all it does is simply gatekeeping with hearing capability
First, killers aren't allowed to have accessibility features. Survivors get a visual heartbeat for TR and lullaby, but killers will never get a visual notification of gen progress if in hearing range, if gens are being worked on and are in hearing range, if footsteps or breathing can be heard, and so on. Not sure why, but only specifically survivors get these features.
Second, if that were to change, it wouldn't work out balance wise from a distance since the killer could pinpoint where it is from anywhere. Do you mean perhaps the aura circle pnly showing up if you're in hearing range of the totem? Problem here is it'd be a lot easier to figure out where it is (center of circle). Perhaps an alternative is to see a boon icon appear on the UI if within hearing range.
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@ChuckingWong said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3926891#Comment_3926891
This is thinking in a vacuum of perfect order on the survivors end.
You dont get to control what area you go down or you get to control where you go down, heavily depends on gameplay and killer. Not just experience.
Killers zone you all the time, and with recent map changes, often you are zoned just out of a lack of places to go. We are having issues with 1/4 to 1/3 of the maps spawning with no pallets or extremely weak ones (yamoaka side of main for example and thats it).
Your thing about DS is true if I know what resources are available to me at what direction. Sadly though as @Pulsar states, unless I am ALSO running windows, or have some form of communication, or saw my team the entire match. I dont know what my team has used on the map.
It quickly turns into current nostromo. Where the only plan, is to hold W and make it to the corner ship, and if not you are just dead everywhere else.Map design INDEED leaves much to be desired, I'll agree there. Some of the changes they made are just...odd (talking about you Ormond). There are definitely killer favored maps as well as survivor favored maps. However, thats a map design issue, not a perk issue.
Now just to clarify, I almost entirely play solo queue, so I almost always run WOO as I'm not certain what resources the other survivors are using. Again though, it's about having to adapt to situations. If you have bad survivor teammates, then it is what it is. The problem about having perks that erase survivor mistakes due to bad survivor teammates is that those perks still exists when survivors aren't playing poorly in which which the advantage is already in the survivors favor (unless it's a blight or nurse, I'm a strong believer in nerfs for blight and nurse).
Overall, I think the notion that "I have DS, so you can't touch me!" is flawed. DS gives you just enough time to get to another loop. Just having it equipped shouldn't mean god mode. If you don't use it right, yeah, it should go to waste. Be smart about it's use. It's not some afk idle game. Now, if you did happen to run yourself to a deadzone where the nearest vault is in another zipcode, you outplayed yourself, or the killer did a godly job outplaying you - he planned ahead. Who plans has the upper hand. If that area of the map is that dead, understand that leading the killer there will have consequences - you'll be in danger of getting tunneled with little options, but that's your choice to make. Just having DS shouldn't be an instant get out of jail free card just because you have it slotted in. Use it wisely. Think. Plan.
It's no different than getting hooked in basement. If you get basement hooked, you were either way out of position (thats a danger area to be in range), or you made a risk vs reward call (usually when looping shack with basement). Looping shack basement, you'll either reap the reward or pay the price. Again, it's all in the survivors control including these situations. If the resources ran dry early, survivors wasted those resources too quickly. Thats why it's sometimes smart taking a hit or even an early down if it means saving a god pallet for the endgame. One of THE first gens I do first is shack gen, as shack can be vital in the endgame, and the last thing you want in the endgame is for shack to have a gen in there needing done so looping it isn't viable. Again, it's all about survivor decisions.
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@Pulsar said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3926891#Comment_3926891
You don't get to control what resources remain on the map, that is up to your teammates. You do not control where the Killer goes after they down you. I would make it a point to hook people inside of areas I knew to be dead zones.
If someone wants me to chase them in Shack, for example, I am not going to hook them in basement unless I believe my reward for doing so will be greater than the risk I incur for putting them in a strong structure.
See, now you're getting it. Those resources used are up to the survivors, like I've been saying. The survivors essentially dictate how the match will play out. Make poor decisions on what gens get done, you end up with a bad 3 gen. The survivors decide to throw shack pallet at the very beginning of the match? Survivors choice. Killer chasing that survivor into a deadzone, up to the survivors experience if he's observant enough to spot the trap. That last gen almost done and a survivor being chased decides to run the killer right to that gen? Again, a conscience decision by the survivors, and a price to pray. Everything needs thought, including DS on how to use it. We shouldn't have perks that just erase survivor OR killer mistakes. Perks should be used to supplement a plan, not to erase blatant mistakes and, "hey. Lets just pretend that didn't happen and get a re-do." Good survivor plays involves thinking.
Now, I am not pro survivor. I'd say I'm pretty average, but these chases I have every opportunity to decide where I drag the killer and ultimately where I'd go down if I went down. Granted, I make a BIG mistake dropping killer shack early, but that's on me. Like I said, I'm average.
https://youtu.be/NhriQPbYh8U?si=PBlwDBgLPy9-bwNQAlso, here some extra credit of just a silly chase, just for fun. Having to time weskers audio queue of bringing his arm up can be tricky but hilariously fun if you pull it off.
https://youtu.be/g44hLPltczY?si=chub7joFXB2D4UXR -
@Pulsar said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3926834#Comment_3926834
You don't get to control where you get hooked, nor do you control what the Killer does after you get unhooked.
All you've said is that DS kind of helped people who didn't need help and did nothing for people who actually needed the assistance.
As a survivor, you don't control which hook you're hooked on, but you definitely control the area where you'll get hooked. Some sort of loop or vault is almost always near any hook. Im just saying the proper use for DS is after you're unhooked, and if the killer is focusing you, and you know you're going down, ensure a vault or pallet is nearby. Thats what DS is for. They pick you up, and bam, hop off and you instantly have a new loop between you and the killer. A lot of survivors just would equip DS, get downed again, use it, and just be completely out of place and just get downed again within seconds due to not bothering to think about a plan. If the killer is chasing you, you chose where to lead that killer. Use that to your advantage. Me, I like the basement unhook perk, so if I know I'm going down, I'll usually position myself where the killer will likely try to basement hook me. That entirely removes the pressure from my team to have to come rescue me. Am I out of position and in a deadzone? I put myself in that position - that's on me, so to take advantage of a bleak situation, I'd run myself to a corner to try to avoid having the killer hook me in a centralized and easy to patrol area. That last gen almost done? I run him as far away as possible from that last gen to buy that survivor as much pressure free time on the gen.
Survivors have a lot of control over what the killer does. While we can't have them hook us at specific locations, where we are chased is absolutely in our hands. He either follows us to where we want him to be, or he realizes what's up and gives up chase.
That's why a lot of maps had hook locations changed, because survivors could ensure they go down in places where they cannot be hooked. Thats also why strong survivors can consistently run killers for multiple gens without getting downed - they think ahead and don't just blindly hold W. Loops are very powerful against almost all killers save for balance breakers like nurse.
So yes, you are at least correct that DS wasn't helpful for survivors who don't have a plan. For those with a plan, DS is enough to extend chase for more time thanks to using it properly near a loop. That's not a DS issue, that's just inexperience. There's a LOT to learn in DBD, so once you start thinking ahead and have a plan, your survivor potential skyrockets in comparrrison to holding W.
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@jesterkind said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3926834#Comment_3926834
If you have to have something nearby when you go down, doesn't that make it fundamentally bad at its job?
On top of that by no means being a guarantee since you easily could've been hooked in a deadzone, it also strongly implies you, the player, need to be capable of looping well enough to make that worth it… at which point you'd have less use for DS to begin with and the people who do desperately need it can't use it.
Three second DS really was not a good perk at all, in my opinion. It was only somewhat useful for the people who need it the least, at best.
I mean, thats fair. I usually only ever saw people using it offensively. IE they would get unhooked then start bodyblocking every which way until they get picked up, then LULZ DS, then off they go.
That being said, I always felt it was more of a skill expression. If I'm unhooked, I almost always have enough time to get near a loop, and if I can't make it, DS is enough to get me there after getting picked up, again. I dont really think DS should be a guaranteed get out of jail free card - it should have some sort of thought involved when using it. Almost every aspect of the game is often in the survivors control including where you're going down. If there's a dead zone, then it's best not to be near there unless the survivors ended up 3 genning themselves in a dead zone which again, is up to the survivors on what gens they do. Then again, I feel that some sort of thought and plan in mind should be present in about everything in the game, but I'll admit I do have a tendancy to overanalyze things. Huzzah for being high functioning. :/
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@Pulsar said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3926086#Comment_3926086
3 second DS was inconsequential unless the Killer was either A) The weakest Killer in the game or B) Not good at the game.
It was a joke and anyone who pretends otherwise isn't even hiding their bias or attempt to gaslight others.
DS was supposed to be used in conjunction with a nearby vault/loop. Running out into an open area with nothing, yes, would absolutely have DS not do much at all to help you outside of buying your team a little time, but that's using the DS incorrectly. You're supposed to go down near a vault or pallet, so once you stun the killer, you're good to go at another loop to run. Nurse could of course entirely disregard this - I still feel nurse is fundamentally bad design since she can pretty much cheat every balance attempt in the game.
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I stopped playing xeno after tail hits consistently never did damage. Even hitting people vaulting, it just clips through them and nothing. An m2 attack that effectively rolls the die to see if it hits or not just isn't reliable enough to warrant playing the character. Wether it's a bug or not, it remains unfixed, and in turn, less people play the character. The tail just isnt reliable.
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I like dead hard being around, it's a dead perk slot since I almost always wait out a potential dead hard.
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@Jhei said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3925878#Comment_3925878
Duty of Care procs on protection hits, not just M1's. Special attacks will trigger protection hits.
Unless they changed it recently, it's been only triggering on m1 attacks.
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@UndeddJester said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3926330#Comment_3926330
It's an interesting perspective, though I don't necessarily believe it's a byproduct directly of the number of survivors, since the respective strength of the individual player correlates to the strength of the team as a whole.
If for example we rudimentaraily say that survivors are 1/4 the strength of the killer, losing one player leaves the survivor team with 75% of it's strength. Whereas if we're to balance the game for 3 players vs. a killer, removing one player would losing a 1/3 of the teams strength, leaving 66% only of it's strength... so tunneling could be expected to be more prevalent with fewer survivors based on this rudimentary model, and by the same token, 5 players for Survivor would diminish the value of removing a player from the equation.
Obviously this oversimplifies the problem, as the game of DBD is really all about action economy not some abiguous "strength". What makes 4 survivors stronger is more hands to divide tasks, and this would be true regardless of the number of survivors. So in regard to the question of tunneling a player out, we have effectively 2 scenarios/ideas to weigh up: -
- You focus 1 survivor of the 4 survivors for the tunnel, only regularly occupying 1 survivor, while at least 2, and usually 3 survivors have completely unimpeded action economy, for the potential gain of making that 1 player permanently "occupied" by removing them from the game. If you do it fast enough then there are only 2 other hands available to survivor is at any one time you are in chase. By doing this you are allowing a temporary increased action economy to attempt to permanently reduce the survivor action economy from the point the first player dies. Hopefully you do it fast enough that you can pressure the remaining 3 consistently enough to win.
- You focus multiple of survivors the 4 survivors, using the time they are on hook to consider them "occupied", and assuming you are effective at getting into and completing chase, you can now occupy 2 survivors at once, and occassionally 3 while one player is going for unhooks and completing heals. This is effectively the value that Pig's RBTs, Pinhead's Chains and Sadako's Condemn, and Hex perk's provide in a nutshell, they reduce survivor action economy so there are fewer hands available to progress the survivor objective.
Now obviously if presented the chance to permanently remove 1 survivor from the equation efficiently, any killer would be throwing the game not to take it... however the question fundamentally is, if you are focusing one player and not removing the action economy of others, can you remove that player fast enough to stillbbe able to capitalise on the reduced action economy against the remaining 3 before the game runs away from you?
More traditional m1 killers, the answer to me generally looks to be "no". This I believe is another fundamental problem with the more modern shift to generally more mobile and effective anti-loop killers who can brute force hits at tiles. Not only are they more effective at making a player dead, they are also more effective at capitalising on the fact that player is dead.
The theory is these killers have the strength to not need to play these more sweaty and meaner strategies... but the reality is it tends to mean they are just better at it. It seems to me this creates a feedback loop where as more killers lean to becoming more map mobile and loop lethal (and not having those things leaves the killer dead in the water), the more effective strategies like tunneling and slugging become, and in turn stronger and stronger survivors defences need to become (hence the more recrnt initiativesto address those things coming up)
And of course these things tend to disproportionately hit the killers that already can't do it more… (such as the 70 second unhook timer increase hits lower tier killers harder than higher tier ones).
Fair thoughts, but generally what I meant was atm, with one survivor being in chase, you have up to 3 survivors slamming away at objectives. It's not uncommon to see 3 gens lost by the time the killer gets their first down. If they don't tunnel them out of the game and instead spread hooks out, thats generally always having 2-3 survivors continuing to slam out gens (2 if someone goes for an unhook). Still pretty rough on some killers such as m1 no mobility killers. If instead there were 3 survivors max in a game, then there really would be no need to tunnel one out, as once they are hooked, you only have 1-2 survivors slamming out gens (1 if one goes for unhook). Thats a lot more manageable, so tunneling at that point doesnt really have any big way to eliminate a big disadvantage. If anything, survivors would be at the big disadvantage with 3 survivors max, hence my comment that survivors would need to inherently be stronger in some way individually (unless you meant that the number of gens would be reduced to complete which then yes, I'd agree the problem would persist ratio-wise).
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@I_Cant_Loop said:
BHVR should never ban people for exploiting bugs. Instead, they should actually fix the bugs in a timely manner or at least killswitch if it’s related to a certain character/perk/item/add-on.
Depends on the bug. People who were exploiting lockers where they could clip into them to be immune to all damage clearly should have been banned. There was no way to "accidentally" do that. That's flat out intentional cheating. Players with that kind of mentality should be permanently removed from the game. Their intent is to ruin other players' experience by intentionally breaking the game.
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@Rokku_Rorru said:
Edit: sorry I'm really silly and misread the post
M1 all killers get downs with m1's, it's not an exclusive mechanic to any one killer LOL I don't get why there are so many doomer killer players, every killer has a power, some just have less mobility/reach than others, which in turn, hurts their 4v1.
I don't think there is a killer who doesn't have an anti loop tool in their arsenal, furthermore you can build chase to make that easier on yourself and I have gd idea why people don't do that.
this is my opinion, do I think some killers need help? I want to see the QoL changes first, and the S-tiers brought down (I personally think Nurse/Blight are incredibly boring and have no depth at all) but I have A LOT of fun playing Trapper/Dredge/Ghostface among others, why? They make me play differently, they change the way I think.There are a few killers with no anti loop. Ghostie, for an easy example. While his stealth might help in some rare cases in a loop, most loops have clear visibility of the killer. Even crouching, he can be clearly seen. His power can also be entirely disabled by survivors in which he can't even use his stealth, and even when his stealth is available, it's no different than a killer hiding their red stain by side or backwards walking. In chase, the music still triggers to let you know he's there even if in stealth mode, so stealth mode doesn't really help as much as one might hope while in a chase loop. Pig is another example during a chase loop. While she has a dash, she has to stop to enable it which often cancels out any distance she may have gained, and the dash is given a clear audible warning. As mentioned, most loops have clear visibility of the killer, so the dash is not very helpful. Myers is another example, where initially he's slower and has limited swing distance though once he gets some tiers, he does at least get some movement and vault speed to help in loops so he's sort of in the middle depending on his tier. Trapper doesn't have any anti loop unless survivors run to a loop that the Trapper had already lost time trying to set up. Avoiding his trapped areas, survivors will be facing the weakest possible killer in the game with absolutely no anti loop whatsoever.
You'll notice the common theme here is survivors often having the ability to control whether or not the killer has any power. Ghostie, ensure good position where your loops has killer visibility (and even if no visibility on him, the only thing he could use is not having to hide his red stain which is more like QOL). Alternatively, simply remove his power by looking at him in his general zipcode. For trapper, good survivors always do recon where traps are set up. Then either disarm them, or simply position yourself to loop where traps aren't. For pig, well frankly pig is a joke. The only anti loop you could consider for her is if you as a survivor are well out of position to get hit by a dash which in itself takes a moment to actually set up. If she crouches, just get to the window or pallet. I suppose you could claim that her anti loop power is to force an early pallet drop?
Being bring said, you are correct that those killers can perk build for chase power, but it sucks that building a very specific way is felt as mandatory just to play.
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@Aven_Fallen said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3926363#Comment_3926363
Yeah, but sometimes it is pretty clear that they are really challenged at the game. And well… If you are bad at the game even a mediocre player will look good for you.
And sadly I have to disappoint you - the Emblem-System lead to quite good Matchmaking when the Rank Reset was strict. When they watered it down, all went downhill.
Disappoint me? Not sure what you mean. All because someone was iridescent 1 didn't mean they were a pro player, all those ranks meant was how much someone played within a month. Even a mediocre player could reach iridescent 1.
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@LockerLurk said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3923840#Comment_3923840
So the fundamental problem is a) the game is frustrating sorta like Rage Game or Nintendo Hard game, and b) people are scared to lose because then they lose "street cred".
So like every multiplayer game from the dawn of time ever.
I think if you don't want to play hard, don't pick a weaker Killer. If you don't wanna actually improve at the macro game and just wanna win, pick a strong Killer you can spam a power with. If you're insecure when you lose, don't play a weak Killer.
That explains a lot about the community for sure - a lot of us are insecure in our own abilities and fill that void with a need to win, complaining whenever we don't or whenever we think the game is too unfair, both sides. That can't be healthy.The street cred thing is real. What helped me was playing anonymously. I don't feel I have anything to prove, and I can intentionally play suboptimally if I wanted to for gags and silliness without feeling that I could have had a better skill rep for going all in or something. It's a flawed way of thinking (street cred required), but thats just human nature.
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@LockerLurk said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3926310#Comment_3926310
That's all well and good but why not teach people to enjoy weaker Killers if they try them and find out they a) like it, b) are fine with them just as they are?
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3926323#Comment_3926323
Not viable at high MMR sure, but not a lot of Killers do that well - even new ones - when teams are highly coordinated and very good. In fact I'd say only S and half the A tiers stand a chance, while the rest are playing catchup or a different game entirely.
Basically, I see it this way: One half of the game is playing with the gods and shooting for the moon, and the other half is just playing the game to play it. You can choose whichever path you want but both are fine, and both are viable for their niches. If a Killer serves a given niche and most people are satisfied with them in that niche, what is the problem if maybe they lose a bit more than a super strong one? No Killer is out here getting less than a 50-60% of their wins, so what's the problem? They're still winning, they just have to work harder at it and take more game skill to win with.
Really, I am truly more impressed with someone who consistently does well as Pig than someone who is mediocre at Blight, anyway. Because I know the Pig player didn't just tunnel and spam her power, she had to learn how to actually mindgame and play well and spread pressure - and knows her character's limitations and is cool with them. Meanwhile sure, the mediocre Blight player is chasing the win dragon, looking to best everyone, and may win because Blight snowballs and tunnels well, but is that skill? Are they LilithOmen? No, they're fail-safing on a strong power. They don't have to necessarily think as hard.
That's not to say Pig is some grand big brain Killer or Blight takes no skill, neither of those are true obviously. But it's easier to crutch on a strong Killer played badly than a weak Killer played well. Strong powered Killers are like the Second Chance perks Survivors have - you win more with them yes, but you also never really learn basic counterplay because mistakes are easily forgiven when you use them repeatedly. It can make you a lazier and less skilled Killer over time if you only play them versus someone who has to WORK for every down.
Like I said, two kinds of players. The one who believes slow and steady can win the race and might lose a bit more but ultimately can get consistent for their niche just fine, or the one who wants results and may win a lot at first but ends up never learning counterstrategies and may struggle later as they ONLY find the strongest opponents all the time.Up until recently with the AoE sprintburst perk for survivors that only triggers against m1, I pretty much only played the underdogs m1 killers just to give survivors a break from the usual blight/nurse/ghoul.
Ghostie, pig, Myers, and occasionally slinger.
That perk was the final straw though. I'm done trying to make weak killers viable when BHVR seems hellbent on soft-removing them from the game.
That being said, it's fun to master a character where no one expects you to be able to put up a fight and surprise them with one heck of a fight.
I usually play nice, don't tunnel, don't slug, and I almost always give hatch. However, I go no mercy mode on bully squads. Have to know your mindgames, know every bully squad trick in the book, know every tech - especially CJ tech. Bully squads simply dont know what to do when you know their shenanigans. Here was my anti bully squad speed run after they all quick swapped to flashlights at the last second. Match done in under 2 minutes.
https://youtu.be/S6SvH38N7R4?si=ONGuxgSodTFrxug- -
@Aven_Fallen said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3916747#Comment_3916747
Yep, this will happen. And it also happened with Ranks back in the day. Even now you see people claim that they are at high MMR, despite their posts saying that they are really, really struggling with the game.
High MMR doesn't mean it's easy mode. People can struggle at any MMR. Even professional DBD players struggle in matches.That bring said, the old visible ranks literally had nothing to do with skill determination. It was just how much people played during a month.
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What's not quite realized is the reason tunneling is rampant in dbd. Surprisingly, it's because of the number of survivors. Why?
We must first understand that there are two ways people tend to view the game.
The first way is the actual way the game is designed per BHVRs own statements. It's one killer vs 4 individual survivors each with their own win condition, but survivors are not considered a team. Survivors do not win or lose together and can choose to work together or work lone wolf. In a situation like this, for every survivor against the killer, each escape rate gets lower for survivors for balance. For example, if it was one killer vs 1 survivor, then the escape rate should be 50%. If there were two survivors, then obviously we could no longer keep survivors at a 50% escape rate, as it would be unfair for the killer who has multiple opponents. What's the balanced escape rate for 4 survivors? 38.5%. However, that low of escape rate isn't very fun for the individual survivors, so they have been given plenty of buffs. Recent official stats shows that escape rates range from around 40% (solo queue) all the way up to 48% (for 4 man squads). This ends up making it unbalanced while 4 survivors live. Once one survivor is eliminated, the balance between 3 and 4 survivors is a drastic change and becomes more manageable. Thats usually why you see killers only tunneling the first player out at high end play.
The second way to view the game is to disregard BHVRs design and just pretend survivors are a team. If they were a team and all win/lose together, then this opens up the possibilities of ties. What's the escape rate in this case for each survivor for balance? 44.2%. This leaves solo/duo/trio slightly underperforming, but full 4 man squads still overperforming. This, once again, heavily encourages killers to tunnel out the first survivor.
So whether you view view game as it's designed (1 killer vs 4 individual opponents) or as a team game, both cases have 4 survivors as having the advantage the moment the game begins. It's an uphill battle until one survivor is eliminated.
It's a challenge to address because while 4 survivors have a very big advantage, once eliminated, the 3 remaining survivors are at a big disadvantage. Trying to nerf 4 survivors in some way would inevitably then hurt 3 survivors once the 4th is gone. It's a problem the game created from It's inception. It would have been likely better to have a strengthened 3 man game (as in stronger survivors but a max of 3).
NOTE: this naturally is a base line and does not consider individual killer strength. Some killers are powerful enough to handle even full man squads with ease (such as blight). The numbers provided are about balance design as a whole across all killers. Some killers are underpowered and have it even worse, and some killers are overpowered and aren't held to the 4 survivors advantage. Also, the answer isn't to reduce the number of survivors then buff them considering the logo, merchandise, and so on...BHVR would never reduce the number of survivors. I'm just pointing out that designing the game with 4 survivors from the get go has created this problem that's frankly hard to fix without negatively affecting solo queue OR weak/average killers.