RpTheHotrod
RpTheHotrod
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@iloveandhatethisgame said:
wasn’t this perk getting so many complaints about it? Where did they go?
It's still in the game. I see it used regularly. Yes, I absolutely use it. As long as you're good at looping, its an incredible perk to bring, especially as a solo queue player who might have less experienced teammates. You can practically guarantee they won't go down as long as you're nearby and not injured.
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@GeneralV said:
I genuinely have no idea what this perk does.
Gives your entire team near you free sprint bursts without any exhaustion if you get injured. Someone injured and in chase? Just bodyblock. They now cannot be downed unless they don't know how to loop, as it'll guarantee they get to a loop.
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Nearly all of my matches i see it, then again, thats when I'm bringing it ha. It's ridiculously overtuned, and it practically makes your entire team immune to ever going down if they are an m1 killer without mobility. I mix it in with the shadows perk that let's you heal yourself in the basement and the other perk they extends your "just injured" movement speed duration. We had a nurse in the hawking laboratory. We'd push a gen, I'd bodyblock and take a hit, and everyone would be at the far end of the map by the time duty would expire. Once she ran out of gen regressions, she DC'ed because our entire team was completely untouchable. Im extremely surprised I don't see this on everyone's loadout. It's one of the most broken perks since the original made for this or the original eruption.
The downside is that its not great vs mobile killers on outside maps, but inside maps, your team will never go down if you know what you're doing and also pair it with basement heal perk so you can patch yourself up and keep taking hits.
Edit - to clarify, I mostly play solo queue. Probably 90% of the time.
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My only issue with revealed stats is it would encourage some players to play sweatier than they already do in order to pump up their numbers. I personally almost always last hatch, and sometimes if they are getting stomped, I'll let the last 2 finish their gens and escape. However. It'd suck to see the numbers reflect poorly due to being "nice". I'd imagine we would see far less "nice" killers. It's enough of a problem that nightlight itself has an option to declare that you gave hatch to the survivor so it would still count as a kill.
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The fact we have nearly 200 upvotes with only a single downvote should say something, BHVR. We really want this changed.
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I play solo queue. Usually 0 because survivors tend to get a bit too sure of themselves and make mistakes at the end, or do risky plays to try to save the one person on hook and it doesn't pan out, or the killer has NOED.
On the scenarios of the exit gates not being powered, Usually it's 2 gens left.
Bear in mind, I play altruistically, so I'll take a loss to ensure the person on hook gets out and wins. I have enough BP, so it's more fun for me to risk my win to ensure aomeone else does.
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@Kapkan said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3936583#Comment_3936583
You're missing the point. When did you ever see more killers than a Blight, a Nurse, Hillbilly or a spirit? I never see Chucky anymore. I never see Xenomorph anymore. I never see Trapper, Twins, Knight, Pig, Doctor, Artist, Trickster, etc… Where the Hell are they?
If everyone's goal is not to win then why is there a lack of killer variety?
Because the game keeps pushing survivors into being more capable of beating dashers and map mobility killers which is why every single new killer recently have all had some sort of dash\map mobility feature. It's a strong kind of power, so survivors are getting tools to help compete against it. Problem is, it entirely invalidates any killers without dashes or map mobility. Try being a no mobility m1 killer with the recent AoE sprint burst perk, or them having so many haste perks they can literally outrun the killer indefinitely. Dash\Map mobility is now "the" standard and king of killer design. Survivors will keep getting tools to help keep on top of that, but that means playing anything without a dash or map mobility is just a miserable experience.
Anamtronic - map "teleport"
Ghoul - dash
Doggo Lady - has the dash hound
Dracula - Dash (wolf) and pseudo teleport (bats window)
Vecna - dash (flight)
Chucky - Dash
Alien - map "teleport"
Singularity - teleport (via pods)
All in a row - some sort of map mobility, though doggo lady is a bit weird since her "dash" is via a pet effectively extending her range. Not a single one is at the mercy of bring forced to slowly catch up to survivors though loops. Granted, just having map mobility doesn't mean it's a good killer - I'm just pointing out that ALL recent killers in a row ALL have some way to put their pressure well beyond chasing someone around with a melee strike whether it be through teleporting around the map to apply pressure globally or being able to effectively cut chases short with dashes. Anyone without map mobility or dashes you'll end up seeing become extinct the higher the MMR it is, as the higher the mmr, the more experienced survivors are and start to understand how to effectively use the tools they have available to them. All new content keeps pushing the goal posts with survivors and mobile killers which just leaves the rest of the killer roster in the dust.
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@Valuetown said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3936406#Comment_3936406
People just want to have fun playing the game.
I'd gladly go back to 2020 dbd when moris were more powerful, there was no base kit borrowed time, the HUD didn't show survivor actions, etc. if that meant I wasn't going up against blight, nurse, blight, wesker, kaneki, huntress, blight, knight, skull merchant running the most broken builds on the planet, (1950 blight win streak btw) and proxy camping, running back to hook, and slugging weren't in every match.
There is beauty in simplicity. The fact that dbd has bloated its roster and systems to the point where it is bursting at every crack of course would make people yearn for the game that was more simple. Like other people said, you used to be able to see a killer power and understand it very quickly in a match. Now I have to sit down and read PARAGRAPHS that describe only a FRACTION of what the killer power does. Why don't they explain everything? Did you know that m1ing as Ghostface resets the stalk meter? Well you didn't find that out by reading his power, I know that for a fact, because it isn't written anywhere. If you're going to complicate things, explain them, but if not, people will want simplicity.
The obvious "gotcha" response to that is "well if you're not having fun with the game, then don't play." Sure, but let's not pretend that it's the people who've changed. The dbd everyone used to love does not exist. It has been sacrificed, and this hollow fortnite clone has taken its place. Tomes? Gone. Lore? Screw it. Original characters? Nobody cares. All I ever see now are people begging for the next resident evil dlc, and asking when the other 100 outfits Jill has throughout the series will be added to the game. DLC tourism both saved (Halloween DLC) and destroyed (Resident Evil) the identity of this game.
If you are happy with dbd as it is now, that's your prerogative. But dismissing criticism because, checks notes, nostalgia? A time when dbd actually felt like it had a soul and the majority of people WANTED to play it? Okay lol
Honestly, I would prefer they start just start doing 1 perk for character release. We have perk bloat.
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@AmpersandUnderscore said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3936182#Comment_3936182
So we're back to "haste stacking is bad" again? That was fast.
I seem to recall the devs specifically stating they were targeting haste stacking and killers had a meltdown and demanded they not go through with that. (Which the devs did backtrack and pull the plug on that change.)
I've always been a supporter of no haste stacking for either side. I think it was a bad call to revert the changes. The game is balanced around expectations of time to get to loops or time to close the distance. Any form of haste breaks that balance, and stacking haste is even worst. Any haste should be very limited such as how exhaustion perks work. Long term haste shouldn't be a thing, yes including stuff like stbfl.
Im just not a fan of haste, at all.
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@iOverSpray said:
Hook 1 in 2 hits, hook 2 in 3 hits after endurance and ds, hook 3 in 3 hits after the instaheal and assuming there aren't 3 people body blocking and then I have to hook them for a forth time now? Allllllll while hook timers got extended in addition to the perk that extends more hook time? Can you just give me an option to hunt pokemon with nea if in not nurse or blight?
Killers are a joke in modern DBD - yes. Heck, Hens and Co. just released a video that literally makes it impossible for an m1 killer to ever reach you - can literally outrun the killer by haste stacking XD
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@QuestionMark220 said:
Deadlock has nothing to do with Hellraiser. It’s just a word. The other two do though.
I wish they would have made it make more sense logically when renaming it, like when you see it, you know what it does. For example, instead of the Deadlock perk, how about the "Da F? I was JUST working on that!" perk.
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@D0NN1ED4RK0 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3935969#Comment_3935969
I’ve seen the lore….
And ik who matpat is with or without fnaf
And I did watch a few lore videos trying to understand this franchise before so dw
I wouldn't really recommend the modern lore as a whole because it is just...well frankly, out of hand, ha. I just mean the original game. Thats where the hook came. Give the video a look - this was Matt's very first look at the game where he was also initially puzzled why it was popular. Essentially, it correlates to an actual real life killing spree that happened at a real life pizza place. After the first game, that whole aspect was entirely dropped, but it was enough to get people hooked and stick with the franchise well after that.
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I'll help you out here. I also came into fnaf not "getting it".
The gameplay in itself is not great. However, once you start getting into the lore of the original game that started it all...and its real world allusions and inspirations from real life events, the game just became just flat out fascinating. It started with an incredibly intriguing story element which secured its fan base and then just kept going with sequels. While the sequels effectively abandoned the real life inspiration, they started filling the game world with little mysteries to uncover that aren't obvious to answer. Effectively. It's popular not because of the gameplay, but because of the lore and mystery behind the games that the community would all come together to try to solve. Its more like a detective game than a survivor game.
This video alone probably is responsible for almost all of the fan base in the original game. Its not long and I recommend giving it a watch. Just a warning, it does go over actual real life disturbing events.
https://youtu.be/th_LYe97ZVc?si=4_SNJD1XbQeZajWo&t=2m37s -
@NarkoTri1er said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/446670/see-ya-guys-until-next-2v8
2v8 is the only mode where you can win as soloQ surv because:
Sprint Burst with a very low cooldown for free no matter if you are escapist or just have an escapist.
Being able to do gens significantly faster than you can in 1v4.
3-gen not being a thing and such nonsense as 6-gen when there is not 10 but 8 gens to repair.
Tunneling/camping and slugging technically not possible.
Being able to often restore pallets.
Many tiles with double pallets where killer just shouldn't commit unless they are a high mobility with chase tools.
Medic role being insanely powerful.
2v8 is a mode where you need 0 coordination and skill to win as surv and it's definitely far more forgiving than 1v4.
I hard disagree. Almost all of my survivor play is solo queue. I can usually win a bit over half of my matches unless I go out of my way to be altruistic and do risky plays. Im the guy that'll trade at the endgame collapse to get them out the gate even if I get sacrificed in the process. With over 2000 hours I have plenty of bp, so I usually prefer making sure everyone ELSE gets out, ha.
If we are up against any m1 killers, the match is practically handed to ya. If facing dashers like blight, that's where generally the match is a loss the moment it begins.
According to BHVR's stats, the average experienced player solo queue escape rate is 40% which is slightly ABOVE the actual balanced escape rate. In a 1 v 4, a 40% escape rate is pretty darn good. If you're not escaping around 40% of the time, keep working on it. The more experience you get, the more youll start realizing the tips and tricks survivors can employ to increase their survival odds. Looping and mindgames are probably the biggest skillset to grow.
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@Lexilogo said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3935064#Comment_3935064
He stands quite proud and in your face on those cameras.
I don't really agree with that, (he does sometimes, but IMO he's making an effort to be sneaky when possible) but instead of me just saying "nuh uh", let's make a game out of it and play a few rounds of "Where's Springtrap?". Here's 9 camera feeds (with static and etc removed), and 1 has Springtrap:
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/VESBDLJT9B6Q/image.png
Springtrap is on the bottom left image, look to the right of it and you can see his hand.
Round 2!
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/M2107462H4X9/image.png
Springtrap is on the top row, middle image. Look to the bottom right of it, that's his shoulder. The drawing in the bottom right image doesn't count! Bottom middle features The Puppet in the darkness though, so if you saw that feel free to reward yourself a bonus point.
Round 3!
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/FUF1F2GQ1AFK/image.png
Springtrap is in the bottom left image again, most of his body is in clear view in the hallway. This one will probably have been the easiest out of the three, especially now that you've gotten practice!
There are definitely times where he is 100% blatant and just stares at you though, I've cherry picked these, but hopefully this shows people why some were thinking Springtrap would be a stealth Killer while providing a bit of fun.
I don't personally mind him not being a stealth Killer, though. I think he incorporates enough stealth elements as is, though I am curious why BHVR ruled out making him a stealth Killer, they probably have an interesting reason.
That's because you're picking pictures where he isnt there. Im talking about where he is there. He isn't making any attempt to hide. He's just in your face.
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@Caiman said:
Because stealth killers are not very strong and can be very difficult to play and if you're going to get 10,000 new players who just want to play Springtrap, you're gonna have to give them something they can play without hundreds of hours of prior experience. Same goes for all the new survivor players who will have little idea how to handle stealth killers and would get noobstomped into the dirt.
I'd like to think that Afton simply isn't a stealthy kind of guy. He's a pretty much in your face kind of persona despite "hiding" in a costume. I feel he has too much pride to skulk around. In the FNaF 3, I feel he's either just trying to find you, or just play with you before he goes in for the kill as opposed to literally sneaking around trying not to be scene. He stands quite proud and in your face on those cameras.
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@NarkoTri1er said:
i will never understand what is such a fuss about twitch shirt at all. Not having them doesn't make you less valuable as streamer at all, but ig only this community has the problem with company actually seeking big streamers to represent it in creator programs (which is pretty basic thing for basically every company that does this)
Yeah, I don't mean to sound cynical or negative, but I can't help but simply think, "Who actually cares?"
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Uncommon cheat I've seen. The prompt to drop pallets will conveniently dissappear once they get close.
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@RadolBR said:
I saw some strange effects in the game, and I noticed that they only happened on the 27th. One on April 27th and two others on May 27th.
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/1IBWUZW3A3SN/huntress.png
- Huntress vs Bot - April 27th
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/91Y35SJ8NN0Y/springtrap.png
- Springtrap vs Bot - May 27th
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/RM1DQMJBDHY7/haddie.png
- Haddie 2x8 - May 27th
I have no idea what this could be, I know it's not my GPU because it only happens in DBD and the temperatures are controlled, I don't have any FPS drops, but it's something that distracts me during the game.
We've seen these random things happen throughout DBD's history, so it's likely not a GPU issue. When my friends see them, we just refer to them as the UFOs.
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btw, you should post this in the PTB feedback forum.
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Those would have worked great.
https://youtube.com/shorts/gaU4AtZht4c?si=2KBdvSjOl56nKg0m
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I was literally thinking the same thing. People don't "roar". Every time I heard it, I couldn't help but laugh. Makes dbd feel more like a comedy than horror.
Don't get me wrong, I love DBD, FNaF, and of course ma boi Matthew, but its just so dang goofy, I can't NOT laugh. XD
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@hygcat said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3933121#Comment_3933121
I use Oppression instead of Surge. I find it more useful.
The problem for me is that it doesn't really do much regression if people are actively on gens. Surge does more and gives a little info. If oppression is working out, that means survivors aren't really doing gens, so gens aren't really an issue in the match anyway.
That being said, if it works for you, go for it.
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I honestly prefer that the game focused more on m1 killers and abandoned overly complicated killers and then balance around m1 scenarios. Chases would be a lot more fun if killers didn't have an easy "gotcha" ability of sorts, but those m1 killers would need some sort of buffs that can capitalize on beating someone in a loop or mindgame. At the moment, survivors just have way too many second chances for m1 killers to be very viable - even if they managed to down someone, the survivors usually have a pick of ways to cancel out the entire down.
That being said, I'm taking a break from my main (p100 ghostie), but I usually have my pressure by keeping survivors on their toes at all times - trying to have someone on hook at any given moment while also chasing someone else. I don't have time to stop for gens, so I usually only have surge for regression. Everything else is indirect pressure.
Here's a few things that go through my mind when doing ghostie
https://youtu.be/aU9_G7vlDTA?si=1YScXXmbHfta6V2P -
@Alen_Starkly said:
I can't tell how many times I've been staring at a Ghost Face, and the revealing would not start. Sometimes never. And other times, by the time it finally would start, he would have exposed me already. So, it seems that there are problems both ways. I hope they address these.
A lot of it is the game doesn't explain to the survivors how to reveal him. You need to essentially place him halfway between the top middle and middle of your screen. Dead in the center risks covering him up with your own character model.
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To help show your point, here is me vs a Myers who went all in on exposing perks when pallet stunned and everything and still couldn't touch me.
https://youtu.be/jPgBh9Ilhmg?si=9Yk_GUR95qEbQSCx -
@UndeddJester said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3931895#Comment_3931895
A fair enough definition and one I agree with, however I suppose the follow up question is do you consider tunneling a problem in any instance? Or is tunneling fine at all times? Or is it somewhere in between? Cause thats effectively the important point we're debating about and is the reason I make the distinction.
I play mostly SoloQ survivor (apparently) and I personally consider opportunistic tunneling fair game. I believe a very important skill on Survivor is to play the macro game and put the killer into difficult macro choices. For example if I have a survivor that is on hook, or I know where a very important gen is about to pop, I will ensure I take the killer away from that objective, even if that means running to a less safe set of tiles to do so. Effectively I'm treating my hook state as a resource to exchange when the team needs it. I have even been known to deliberately "screw up" my looping or run into a dead zone to make me a more enticing target, to ensure that the killer doesn't leave me and return to hook to tunnel.
This is why I make the distinction between opportunistic tunneling and hardcore tunneling, and why I don't see opportunistic tunneling as a problem at all. If I as a survivor make tunnelling a difficult decision for the killer, they are far less likely to tunnel due to the risk that it entails... and I consider this a part of the game.
Following this mentality I have found that I very rarely see low tier killers tunneling... it is simply far too costly for them to do so. I have seen high tier killers also don't tunnel often with this play style because even for them, you can still make it a reasonable risk... of course taking them somewhere where you're gonna get downed fast is less effective vs. these killers so naturally it's all a big game of weighing it up... but you get the point.
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3932189#Comment_3932189
Had nothing to add, just wanted to 🤘😁🤘
I too have a friend who plays survivor only, and love him as I do, he amuses me sometimes with the vitriol he levys at the killer in scenarios where to me it was a perfectly reasonable action for the killer to take... and tontake any other action would benthe killer throwing the game...
He has played killer 5 times and concluded its too easy... so I know the pain of explaining that perspective well xD
There's nothing inherently wrong with any kind of tunneling (otherwise, it would be bannable). However, I feel its just poor sportsmanship and lame to hard tunnel someone out of the game early just for the sake of hard tunneling and I do think early game tunneling needs to be addressed somehow by the devs.
I personally do not do any early game tunneling even though I accept not doing so will lower my chances at success. We are all playing the game to have fun, and I am not out to make anyone else's game experience a miserable one.
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They are my favorites item - incredible useful in confounding killers and getting away mid chase, or to drop it on a gen being worked on when they start running to the gen - gives everyone a chance to put some distance from the killer. Pnly thing i wish it could also do is hide auras.
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@UndeddJester said:
Always amuses me what people call "tunneling" in these discussions. My personal definition is split between opportunistic tunneling and hardcore tunneling.
Opportunistic Tunneling refers to instances where the killer targets a survivor that makes logical sense given the events if the trial... such a survivor is unhooked while another is looping near the hook or running to the hook while in chase, unhooks while the killer still hasn't had time to leave the area yet, and when previously hooked survivors don't make themselves scarce and keep pressuring generators in dangerous areas. These instances of tunneling are perfectly fair and reasonable, and a byproduct of *ahem*... overly optimistic survivor play and just general good attention being paid in the trial.
Hardcore Tunneling refers to instances where the killer targets the same survivor relentlessly, regardless of context, and will actively drop chases and leave slugs in order to return to hook and focus out a player. The distinction is that hardcore tunneling will drop whatever they are doing and pursue the tunnel, even if it's quite a significant gamble to do so. These gambles are mitigated significantly by certain killers with high map mobility, and so the argument can be made this is the best strategy to use on those killers, however I would argue playing such a killer in the first place does a lot to skew your DBD fundamentals. After all, why worry about M1 gameplay at all if you intend to keep playing Nurse? It's the same with gen and survivor tracking... if you don't need those skills to succeed, your ability in them will naturally wane. The point is hardcore tunneling on a less mobile killer will often backfire and put you in an even more lost position than you were before.
As such, when certainly discourage a new killer from hardcore tunneling to learn how to exert map control withoit it... and would also discourage veterans from it, even if playing a killer who has the mobility to get away with it... just so you stay in practice.
Opportunistic tunneling however... that's fair game to my mind... in some ways it's your duty to capitalise on opportunistic tunneling... otherwise survivors will never learn that unhooking in 10s is bad 😁
I only have one definition of tunneling - going after someone who has just recently gotten off hook that has not done anything to progress the objective or help their team and focusing entirely on that person even if therre are other opportunities to go after other players.
The moment that person starts healing another survivor, starts working on a gen, starts to try to bodyblock - ANYthing that isn't trying to gtfo and reset themselves, then they are fair game. Also, if someone else has gotten hooked after they got unhooked, they are also fair game, as you clearly went after someone else.
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@AetherBytes said:
You seem to fail to take into account the fact that if LOS is broken, Ghostface instantly loses all detection on him. You can duck behind cover and repeak immedietly.
That's not remotely true. See my video above as evidence. Heck, the basement is an obvious example. I dont even start to stealth until I've already turned the corner and already am heading up the stairs and yet the hooked person still reveals me. You also see the same thing when I'm playing survivor where I literally reveal the ghost face while he's entirely behind me and off screen.
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@AmpersandUnderscore said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3931696#Comment_3931696
That's not how any of this works.
A 60% kill rate means that, on average 60% of survivors are being killed in matches. Your coin analogy is entirely wrong in this context.
That number doesn't have anything to do with a 1v1 scenario, since matches aren't a 1v1.
But the biggest problem is that it's not "a coin flip", no matter what percentage you decide to cherry pick. Coins are independent outcomes, so every time you flip one has the same chance, regardless of what happened in the last flip.
Kills, though, absolutely depend on previous outcomes. If you kill one survivor early, and at least a couple of gens remain, then you're pretty much guaranteed to kill at least 2 other survivors. That steamroll effect is called being dependent outcomes, and it's really the entire reason people tunnel in the first place: if you kill one fast, you win the match (and in this conversation that boils down to killing one early basically guarantees killing two more).
You can see this really plainly in any detailed data as well: even if it's incomplete, data on nightlight shows that the "4k" match outcome is the most common (about 30% of all matches), followed by 0k at about 20%. A coin flip, is exactly the opposite distribution, with the "4 heads" and "4 tails" outcomes being the least likely outcomes.
Not to mention other factors like players actively working to force one outcome or the other, vs what we presume to be a fair coin flipped randomly (rather than, say, dropped gently to force one outcome).
Yeesh, I'd suggest emailing bhvr and letting them know theyve been wrong for all of these years. Every match is 4 distinct 1 v 1 scenarios happening simultaneously. then again, you probably disagree with them in that, too. Make sure you include that in your correctional email to the team.
60% kill rate also is 2.4 kills on average. A 50% kill rate is a 2k. A 75% kill rate would be a 3k. So yeah, on average killers kill roughly 60%. That means generally killers on average would win every other match. In reality it should be 62.5%, but for whatever reason they went with 60%. In game design, you want to balance on the lowest common denominator - in this case, the player facing multiple opponents while alone. Thats why the killer gets the ~50% win treatment (the 60% kill rate). The more survivors there are, the less their escape rate would need to be to make it fair. I just gave the 1 v 1 to point out a basic mathematics example. IF the game was 1 v 1, we would want a 50/50. However, it's not a single 1 v 1...the killer faces 4 opponents, so to be fair, they each obviously shouldn't have a 50% chance to win - the killer is literally outnumbered, so he needs power to reduce the chances of opponent wins. Mathematically calculated, that would give the killers a win chance in the low to mid 30's.
In case you're having a difficult time grasping it, let's say there were 1,000 survivors. Would you think each of them having a 50% escape rate would be fair for the killer? The killer would probably win under 1% of the time. Clearly, the number of survivors directly affects the chances they should have to win. The more there are, the lower the chance.
Now, the big question is, why did BHVR go with 60% instead of 62.5% (which would be an even 2.5 kills on average over the course of many matches)? This goes back to the game balance. Since there are 4 survivors, that means to balance it out, each survivor would need a 38.5% chance to win. However, that's not very fun for the survivors to have such a low win rate, so BHVR reducing the kill rate to 60% makes sense, but more importantly, they made a statement not too long ago that clarifies an aspect that's a hard pill to swallow - even for me.
The game is not designed around the new player experience, and the game is not designed around the experienced players. BHVR has stated that they do not view the game as a competitive game, and they view it more as a casual game. This also means, and again, this is BHVR stating this, that they WILL make balance changes that the competitive players might not be happy with. Again, they are NOT focusing on balancing the game at experienced levels. By design, the survivors have the advantage, as the game is focused around the average\casual crowd in the middle where that advantage is watered down with the average killer. In this range, the killers have enough power, and survivors have enough power to fight back, as well. You can see this in BHVR's recent stats released on high MMR - solo queue has a ~40% escape rate, and 4 man SWFs have a ~48% escape rate for each survivor (nearly 50%!). This is clearly well above the "true" balance of a 38.5% escape rate, but the game isn't designed around those super experienced players where the survivor balance problem begins to actually show.
Essentially, yes, the game is designed in the survivor's favor, but the "sweet spot" the devs focus on typically won't have that survivor experience realized amongst the "middle ground" playerbase. With little experience, the game sucks for survivors. With a lot of experience, the game sucks for killers (unless you're blight\nurse…boooooo them anyway). The game is fundamentally broken at that lower MMR and higher MMR brackets. If you are bad at the game, or you're too good at the game, you essentially become "out of scope" of what the devs balance around. As a new survivor, your experience suffers. As an experienced killer (and in turn you face experienced survivors), your experience suffers. That's why a lot of "professional" killers are miserable - either that, or they just give in and start maining blight\nurse, and that's why "professional" survivors just have a field day. The game just simply breaks down at that level. If they did balance the game for high MMR, then the newer players would have an even worse time, and the average players that BHVR focuses on will start to have a negative experience. Ultimately, BHVR had to make a call what the game will be, and that final call was a casual game for the average playerbase. By making survivors have the inherent favor, they "catch up" to acceptable win rates much faster, and that's where the balance stops. Go beyond that into higher MMR, and the cracks in the balance begin to show.
At the end of the day, I'm okay with BHVR's call to do this. The only thing that really irks me is just how much of a problem the game has on balancing killers vs each other - mostly on how badly designed the M1 no mobility killers are and we end up losing out on killer variety due to less people bothering to play them. I'd like to see BHVR drop the concept of focusing on dashers or overly complicated killers and go back to the roots and focus on M1 killers for a while. However, that's a completely different topic.
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@jesterkind said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3931689#Comment_3931689
I mean, it sounds harsh, but the answer is honestly gonna be "don't get into that situation" a lot of the time.
I think the only real bone you can throw in this context is that most forms of anti-tunnel should probably disable when the gens are all done, I think most people can broadly get behind that. If the devs were to ever change Endurance to a loss of collision, changing it back to Endurance when the gates are powered would probably be reasonable.
Other than that, though, if the survivors put themselves in a situation that heavily advantaged, it pretty strongly implies the killer misplayed at several key junctures. At a certain point you should lose for poor play, right?
To a certain extinct, sure. Keep in mind the game is designed around the survivors. If survivors make mistakes, killers need to capitalize on those mistakes. Survivors have a lot of power and tools available to them, so it's all about making effective use of that power and those tools. Survivors who would theoretically play to perfection would be unstoppable. Killers who would theoretically play to perfection could still lose. In the end, it comes down to how many mistakes the survivors make. Thats why lower mmr, killers reign supreme - survivors don't have enough experience to know how to effectively play. At high mmr, those survivors make far less mistakes. In the end, it comes down to survivors and their mistakes or lack of mistakes that dictate the match. If they srent making mistakes, then the killer is effectively at their mercy - especially weak killers. Granted nurse and blight exist - and they are way overtuned.
Remember, according to BHVRs official stats, experienced 4 man swfs have each of their survivors having an average of a 48% escape rate. That's each survivor. If it was 1 on 1, we would want both sides to have a 50% chance to win. However, this is FOUR opponents the killer has to face, and each of those opponents only have one opponent. Mathmatically, each survivor would need a 38.5% escape rate to make it fair for the player who has multiple opponents to deal with. 48% is so close to 50, you can do a simple experiment. Flip a coin 4 times. How often do you get tails 3 (kills) out of the 4 flips after 100 flips? Not very often.
Innately, survivors hold the advantage. It just usually comes down to their ability to avoid mistakes than it is the killer avoiding mistakes. The game is designed around those survivor mistakes and taking advantage of them. If they don't make mistakes, even perfectly playing can result in a loss.
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@jesterkind said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3931624#Comment_3931624
I'm not necessarily saying not to consider tunnelling a specific tool, but that is where the other half of the argument comes in.
Sure, right now it's a good tool to use in key moments- it's easy to do, hard to counter, and has a very good chance of giving massive value. It's good for turning games around if they're looking dicey.
However… those attributes are why it's unbalanced and why it's receiving changes. If these specific changes don't make it significantly less reliable, more will eventually come down the line. It's why I personally try not to rely on tunnelling even in those key moments, and why I think people who care about improving should probably do the same.
Again, though, play how you like. I'm not here to police anyone.
What Kind of options are you wanting to provide killers that would effectively replace the need to tunnel once things are dire (such as all gens done, no kills yet)? If you have a suggestion that would be implemented to give them an alternative to focusing one survivor, I'd be happy to hear it. As for other forms of tunneling, such as just tunneling to tunnel from the get go, I personally dislike it. I think it's lame and ruins the fun of the match for others, and as you have pointed out, discourages actual healthy gameplay to hone actual skills such as gen and map pressure. An early tunnel is a cheap shot, imho. However, if we are abandoning tunneling, especially if forced by BHVR, killers need some sort of options in the middle to late game, especially the weaker m1 killers with no mobility that already struggle in the face of 4 man SWFs.
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@jesterkind said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3931545#Comment_3931545
Both of the things I mentioned combined are what would make it not optimal, not just facing stronger opponents.
Though, for the average player, tunnelling does get weaker as they face stronger opponents. If that's all they rely on, their games will get harder and more stressful, because they have to keep tunnelling but their margin for error in how long it takes gets smaller and smaller.
I really see it as tunneling is dangerous to use as a blunt instrument to solve all issues. However, it can be a very useful and the most optimal tool in certain situations. So in general, you are correct that just focusing on tunneling hurts you in the long run, but we have to at least acknowledge that in certain circumstances it's the correct choice. Use it as a tool to supplement your games, not as a solution to all scenarios.
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Aura reads harm chase health too, though. It entirely removes the element of mind games in chase and instead just turns them into all having the same ultimate result...you'll be safe for exactly 3 loops and 3 loops only around that pallet, drop, leave. Now you're safe for exactly 2 loops at that pallet, drop, leave. Rinse and repeat.
It leaves no room for dynamic chases or mindgames when out of sight. It's all essentially predetermined.
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@terumisan said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/445864/is-wallhack-perks-fair
boon shadowstep is an option
That perk comes in clutch if you put it in the center of the map. I love it when a fellow survivors brings that one. It effectively forces the killer to take time of of chase to go hunt it down and remove it. Afterwards, the survivor can just pop it back up, again.
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@AmpersandUnderscore said:
2-4 minutes?
So, that is short enough that someone is revealed while hiding if the killer slugs for the 4k, since bleed out is 4 minutes.
I've had survivors hide for over 10 minutes before, as i had the 10 minute abandon feature pop up as an option. They refused to do gens and just literally hid in random lockers.
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@Kito_nab said:
Dead by Daylight lacks ranked mode, would be much better with grind and tournaments, a separate rank for killer and survivor where you can also ban characters
We already have 20 minute queue times when a new gamemode comes out. The game just doesn't have the population to handle splitting the community. If it did, then by all means I'd be totally up for it, but the count just isn't high enough to split the community up.
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@AmpersandUnderscore said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3931592#Comment_3931592
Normal gameplay killers have to keep track of 12 hook states at any given time
Yes, this is generally how I play as well. I genuinely don't find this to be that difficult.
I'm also trying to keep track of where I've seen survivors, which gens they're working on (and likely where they can be expected to go back to), and usually which perks I've seen. I can usually extrapolate who is going for rescue,
I still don't think that this is an unreasonable amount of information to handle, even admitting that I do make mistakes and have gotten it wrong. If I'm playing for hooks, then I'm already focusing on having a fun match (for everyone) and ideally the game should still be fun even if survivors aren't escaping.
This game has some of the most easily tracked and telegraphed information of most of the PVP games I've played.
Well, it's great you function at a high level vs all the other plebs. Sucks to be them them I guess, eh?
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@AmpersandUnderscore said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3931555#Comment_3931555
Personally I don't find this to be a terribly difficult thing to keep track of, and I feel that it goes beyond being a simple "quality of life" change.
Asymmetric information is a core part of PVP games, even in symmetric games like overwatch, Apex, etc. There is always information about your cooldowns, ultimates, and even team resources that is shown to you and specifically hidden from the opponent.
In every game I've ever played, it's a measure of game sense for you to mentally keep track of those things in the middle of the game.
You say this, but even watching what BHVR considers professional dbd players, they'll also question how many hooks particular survivors have. With so much going on, not to mention people having the same skins equipped, keeping track of hook counts isn't something that'll just happen naturally. Even the best dbd players have to jot notes down to keep track of it all. People who tunnel intentionally need only keep track of one survivor only. Normal gameplay killers have to keep track of 12 hook states at any given time. That's easier said than done. Hiding the hook states only negatively affects killers who aren't going out of their way to tunnel.
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@AmpersandUnderscore said:
I'm generally opposed to showing this to the killer, since it would largely be used to just tunnel one person out.
However, if they actually implement meaningful anti tunneling in phase 2 this year, then I might actually change my mind on this one.
Tunnelers keep track of hook counts anyway. That wouldn't change anything. Tru, for example, tends to tunnel on a regular basis. You'll notice he always stops to jot down a kill on his desk after every hook.
Tracked hook states wouldn't increase tunneling, as tunnelers already tunnel and already keep track anyway. It would, however, help killers who play "nice" to avoid unintentionally eliminating players which would reduce tunneling.
I personally keep track to avoid accidentally eliminating someone too early in the match. Im not out for anyone to have a miserable experience. I may be "the bad guy", but I'm not a bad guy. Here's what I designed for my tracker on my tablet.
https://youtu.be/PsfS6-hWCz8?si=ap6DSYjau0B-7G8M -
@TheTom20 said:
Usually he puts a few traps down then 4 gens are done poor old trapper
Often, yes. Whats bizarre is BHVR has stated that trapper is in a good place balance-wise. I feel they are out of touch of the reality of the game. I think they put too much weight on lower MMR levels were survivors aren't experienced enough yet to know how to counter killers.
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@Mooks said:
With that when you hit someone you just look left at the portraits and see oh shes second hook, i should maybe not kill her now and go for others
be honest, do you think thats what the majority of killer Players would do? I think more players would use this information to secure the kill - and we already see many content creators and players that say they want to tunnel one out (no judgement here, i do it too and it is often the smart way to Play the Game)
though I also think that those Players that really want to tunnel will remember who they have hooked and don’t need this hook count anyway so I am more neutral to this idea, could at least be tested I guessPeople interested in tunneling already keeps track of hook states anyway. If anything, this would reduce the amount of unintentional tunneling.
At the very least, I wish once you down someone, you can THEN see their hook count and can decide to NOT pick them up if you realize hey, they are on deathhook.
There's plenty of times I've passed on hooking people because they were recently hooked, but there's also times I've eliminated someone thinking they are going to be on their 2nd hook without realizing they are on deathhook due to survivors not freeing them in time earlier.
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@TheMidnightRidr said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3930970#Comment_3930970
You don’t have to lie, mate. At most, normal queues are 6 or 7 minutes at their worst. My queue times in normal are only longer by a couple minutes. I’ve been getting into matches within 5 minutes.
@jamally093People overwhelming love 2v8, myself included. Yes, there are some very much needed changes to aid with matchmaking, but when the very very simple solution to your problem is to just play the normal mode, maybe do that instead of rage posting for it to be removed.
Im not lying. You seem to forget that we don't all live in the same geographical location and don't connect to the same regional servers.
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I generally agree, because tunneling effectively removes you learning how to apply map pressure properly. However, tunneling is mandatory in some cases, such as survivors just gen rushing, they have 1 gen left to do, and there's still 4 of them. Spreading hooks then is pretty much a guaranteed loss. The only hope is to try reducing to 3 asap.
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@Jadelysta said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3931401#Comment_3931401
Whats funny about that is, right after they gutted Distortion they released even more killer aura reading perks/add ons. Distortion is in a pretty bad state now, will people admit it? Never, because they love to never see it.
It's pretty dumb. Limited aura potential is fine, but there are WAY to many ways to read auras at the moment for both sides. They also said they are buffing keys to essentially have built in aura reading.
All this does is remove the fun feature of the game on doing mindgames. Guaranteed info shouldn't be so easily accessible.
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Kills and escapes with the exception of hatch escapes which are MMR neutral.
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@GlamourousLeviathan said:
Dracula: As a wolf, can perform two dashes.
Houndmaster: Can make her dog perform two dashes to grab survivors.
Kaneki: Performs two dashes by default, becomes three when enraged.
I am starting to see a pattern here specially since they all came one after the other...
Been saying this for almost a year. Every single killer added over the past several have some sort of dash or mobility built into their kit. They are effectively entirely abandoning the m1 no mobility design and making all modern killers have mobility, then balancing survivors around the assumption that all killers players will only play dashers (see recent haste buffs for survivors). It's BHVRs way to soft delete m1 no mobility killers from the game. Almost every feature added only hurts m1 no mobility killers. Anti 3 gen? Mobility killers can pressure all gens so don't get forced into 3 gens anyway. Anti facecamp? Only affects m1 killers as mobility killers can just dash back to the hook without meter progression. The new survivor perk that gives everyone area of effect sprintburst? Dashers can just catch back up easily.
So yes, springtrap will have aome sort of mobility, as BHVR wants people to entirely give up on killers like ghostie, myers, trapper, and so on.
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Ghostie is already a super weak killer. It's frustrating that they changed his reveal mechanic a while back that allows survivors to reveal him through solid walls and even sometimes when looking in the opposite direction from him. He needs buffs, and the whole revealing when not in line of sight needs fixing.
https://youtu.be/tBjdJ31Cgwk?si=kDZhOEmvXj0w0Rn4 -
@LockerLurk said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3930811#Comment_3930811
Please read what I actually typed, I never said anything about Nightlight.
Okay my bad, you're just completely making up numbers instead of relying on nightlight - only other place to come up with updated kill rates for every killer since BHVR hasn't. I was giving you the benefit of the doubt of pulling from something legitimate, but just making it up entirely, well, that's just something else. Only thing we've gotten officially recently was a very select cherry picked few.