RpTheHotrod
RpTheHotrod
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@Peanits said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3624827#Comment_3624827
Genuine question so I can understand this POV better: In this scenario where you've downed Survivors near the same generator 8 times, how many times do you think you should be able to make a critical mistake and lose a down to a save (flashlight, pallet, etc.) and still deserve to win the match?
Devil's advocate - do survivors who escape through hatch deserve the win? Do killers who got their teeth kicked in deserve to win thanks to noed? The game has too many variables for the game to declare who "deserves" to win. He's simply saying a downed survivor does not mean it's going to be a hook. Heck, if you down 3 people, you can usually only hook one of them by the time the other two get picked back up unless you really luck out with them going down at a hook.
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@RFSa09 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3624768#Comment_3624768
you don´t need 8 surges because 8 downs = 8 hooks, so you won the game
A down doesn't mean a hook.
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@humanbeing1704 said:
I do hope they consider budding them to 30 meters atleast
60 meters of coverage is pretty massive.
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@crogers271 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3625225#Comment_3625225
Fair thoughts, but the problem is that this also affects perks that don't even do gen damage but require kicks such as Nowhere to Hide or Trail of Torment. Not only that, but both can even literally provide no benefit (such as no one being near near gen on nowhere to hide, or otherwise distortion being in play).These perks just got a buff (and killer overall got a buff). You've got enhanced gen kicking power and harder for survivors to regress a gen - so even if you don't get the perk value, kicking itself is buffed meaning going around kicking gens is more valuable. Trail of Torment especially is buffed, it just got a 5 second extension.
Hypothetically, I can see a killer running 4 gen regression perks very rarely running out of 8 charges on a gen while playing normally, but I doubt it will happen. Kicking a gen though 8 times and still needing to kick it a 9th (especially being gen kicking will be rarer with no gen tapping)? There's just not enough time in the game for that to occur. The only way that happens is with the dedicated 3 gen from the beginning, the exact thing the change is saying it should prevent.
Just a quick note, ToT buff is a wash. Yes, you have 4.5 seconds longer in undetectable, but at the cost of not knowing the moment someone jumps on the gen. That gives that person 4.5 free seconds of progress. For every 1 second of progress, it takes 4 seconds to regress it. That means you gain 4.5 seconds of undetectable at the cost of 18 whole seconds of lost regression (it takes 18 seconds of regression to make up for that 4.5 seconds). To be fair, the kick does get an extra 2.5% damage now, but still, with the change, that extra 4.5 seconds isn't worth how much regression you lose. Under normal circumstances, if I initiate ToT and head away and suddenly lose undetectable, I can immediately head back knowing someone is on the gen. The survivor is now protected from this and gets free 4.5 seconds of progress risk free.
Even if you disregard all of that, the fact is, people who are using ToT and NtH are completely negatively affected by this change, as now they have limits (even harder limits if they use regression perks) that did not exist before. That sucks.
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@sharpef3rn said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3624891#Comment_3624891
And that also means you got 4 downs and 60% off that gen. And the screaming and the aura reads. How much are you wanting from a perk because in my mind that is well worth the perk slot, if you ever get to that point. which again idk how often you get 4 pops of eruption on one gen but for me that is a very niche case. This will be even more niche now that survivors cant tap gens. My whole point is whether its 8 gen kicks, surges, eruptions, pain res whatever you've maxed out the value you can do on that gen, which makes sense because this only happens if youre only focusing on something like a 3 gen. If you are partaking in normal gameplay you got other downs, regressions etc. Youve done ~1/3 of your objective with those 4 eruptions on 1/7 of the gens or 1/5 of the gens needed to be completed.
Fair thoughts, but the problem is that this also affects perks that don't even do gen damage but require kicks such as Nowhere to Hide or Trail of Torment. Not only that, but both can even literally provide no benefit (such as no one being near near gen on nowhere to hide, or otherwise distortion being in play).
On top of all of that, killers have a million and one things to worry about and balance, and now there is a generator just sitting there and they have to feel discouraged from kicking it? Playing killer is feeling more like jumping through loops of what they are not allowed to do so survivors can just keep standing there teabagging. Can't grab of hook, can't kick gens, have to stand way over there if someone is hooked, can't hit people off hook, can't just simply hook someone on a scourge without worrying about PR getting wasted on a 0% gen, and so on. While some of that definitely was needed (ie basekit BT), killer is constantly being bombarded of things they aren't allowed to do and it's becoming and increasingly more frustrating experience where every patch has the hands tied behind your back becoming tighter and tighter.
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@Thavus said:
I think 8 is a bit low, but the anti gen-tap is a nice consolation. I think this will force people to stop stacking gen regression perks.
I feel like you could hit 8 gen regression events within the first 2 minutes of a match starting if you use 4 perks that cause those. But killers who rely on those, because they are poorly designed, will get effected the most. Killers that can end chases quickly wont be effected as much. So the weak get weaker and the strong only get a tiny bit weaker. But who knows how this will all play out with the gen tapping change.
The problem is that heavy regression is almost mandatory for the weaker m1 killers. I personally only run surge on my m1, but I do gen blocking to make up for it. Regardless, I have had a generator get hit by surge 3 times within 30 seconds quite a few times. That's almost half the allotted charges in under a minute! I'm not sure how I'll be able to maintain that for the entirety of the match. 8 is just far too low of a number. What also ridiculous is that the killer is forced with this restriction even in cases where survivors screwed up and 3 genned themselves. They screwed up ultimately leading to a lost match because of their error, but now they get a free pass?
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It's okay to have deadzones. Part of the danger areas. You have to be able to think on your feet and identify danger and safe zones in a map and utilize that knowledge accordingly. We shouldn't just have everything handed to us on a silver platter. Killers can utilize dead zones and survivors can utilize the safe zones. Some maps have more safe zones than dead zones, while other maps have more dead zones than safe zines. I would PREFER every map having a healthy mix of both though instead of maps that are clearly survivor or killer sided.
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@sharpef3rn said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3624780#Comment_3624780
I am sorry but
1) kicking a gen 8 times would still be insanely high and
2) having NWTH having 0 cooldown, and follow your character makes it either the strongest or second strongest information perk (if you feel ultimate weapon is stronger) It having a very niche and slight limitation isn't bad especially given the doubled power of gen kicks.
In addition people are focusing on all the perks that are "nerfed" by the 8 max hits but not the ones that a buffed by this change. Overcharge and Call of Brine both are getting a slight buff because of how much it takes to stop the increased regression. But the perk that's getting a biggest buff is Surveillance since a survivor working on the gen needs to be on for so long and if you head to a gen and it turns white you know they just stepped off and hadnt been on for 4.5 seconds. The perks getting "nerfed" are all meta perks. According to Nightlight Pain Res and Surge have 23% and 15% pick rates. NWTH and Eruption both have around 5%. Meanwhile CoB and Overcharge are 3-4% and Surveillance is less than 1%.
This is a big buff for killers in general with losing gen tapping and doubling the initial damage. Even if you hit the cap with gen kicks you took 40% or 36 seconds from the survivor and 20% of that is from the buff. If you are getting it from perks you are getting min 60% (from 4 eruptions) on a single gen which is an INSANE amount of value.
It's not kicking a gen 8 times, it's any regression event 2.5% or higher. That means if eruption hit the gen 4 times in a match, you'll never be able to kick the gen again.
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@pale_hispanic said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3623629#Comment_3623629
Right I don’t get that part. The 5% kick is a good thing but then having to repair it an additional 5 percent?? They basically buffed kicks to 10% slowdown.
No. Repair is repair. If a generator was regressing and a survivor hops on it, they have to repair it for 4.5 seconds to prevent it from continuing to regress once they leave the gen. All repair progress is repair progress. The only difference is you can't tap gens to stop regressing, now. Stopping regressing now requires 4.5 seconds of repair progress to be made.
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@Rickprado said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3623976#Comment_3623976
But let me get one thing straight: the gen will still gain progress from these seconds, right? Or they will have to repair for 4,5 seconds before the gen start gaining progress again? Because they can do this silly stuff of doing the gen in front of the killer face until the killer run out of kick/regression. Its kinda rare and silly, but happened to me more than once.
Really, lets wait for the PTB to Kick in (bad dum tss) to see how this is going to play. But for now, i think this system need some tweaks to be more fair for killer and survivors.
While they repair, the generator actively gains repair progress. It's just if they stop before 4.5 seconds is up from what was regressing, then the gen will continue to regress, again.
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@Devil_hit11 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3623947#Comment_3623947
oppression makes you begin regressing generators. it does not apply generator event action. The change is really good. one of the best changes they have made in long time however i think the regression is a bit low per gen-kick. I think they should increase this to 8% to be same as Surge perk. one of the smarter changes they have done in long awhile.
I like billy changes and 3 gen changes.
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3623987#Comment_3623987
i don't think it prevent you from kicking gens. it just doesn't reward you with gen regression after 8 instances so all the perk still work. kicking gen would still proc nowhere to hide but no regression etc.
We don't know own if it will still allow kicks, but even if it does, what about ToT?
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@VomitMommy said:
Eruption is so trash with this. Basically every kick is going to take 2 stacks for it. (1 kick, 1 down)
Ruin is going to be good, because it shouldn't count towards it, so you get kinda early game regression for free.
Blocking perks are going to be way better now.
CoB, Overchange should get buff with this. Those are beyond useless when it is so limited...
I wonder how Opression is going to work, but that CD is just way too high...
Even worse with trail of torment or nowhere to hide as you don't get any regression from them, at all lol. (Except for the kick)
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@CaulDrohn when I'm using NtH, I kick every chance I can get. It's a great information perk.
Btw, thanks for a reasonable/constructive reply even if we don't necessarily agree.
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@HerInfernalMajesty said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3624093#Comment_3624093
I wonder why this rule isn’t made so that it kicks in when there’s one generator left? It’s odd that it’s being implemented from the start of the match.
I mean, that's not a bad idea. Should kick in when there are no other gens to do. Then again, they did say they want to hurt killers who camp specifically 3 gens at the beginning, but if they are doing that, no one is touching those 3 gens anyway.
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@Seraphor said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3624219#Comment_3624219
Except cherry picking a single example of a particular event does nothing to suggest said event isn't 'rare'...
This kind of thing happens fairly regularly. Not necessarily always surge related, but there are plenty of things that can cause a generator to get hit multiple times in quick succession. The whole "8 will never happen except for 3 gen campers" is an absolutely ridiculous belief.
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@ratcoffee said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3624118#Comment_3624118
let's see. you have 3 slugs and know where the 4th survivor is. you can easily either get multiple hooks or chase down the last survivor. the survivors have yet to complete a generator.
genuinely, why in the world are you worried that less than slightly less than half of your regression on one generator is gone in this situation? "oh no, I can only three-slug the entire enemy team 17 more times before I'm no longer able to regress generators, and then I'm in trouble"
Like I said, this is the update people like you deserve. Your perspective on the game is so skewed that you couldn't even recognize you had already won the game, you were so worked up about not being able to regress one of the gens anymore. With this update, hopefully you'll get the chance heal the way you think about the game and not get trapped in the mindset of "must regress generator"
This has nothing to do with my performance. They put themselves in that position by 3 of them trying to play altruistic and putting themselves in danger. In my match, I let them get back up and heal reset and continued. You're projecting. "Oh you're a slugger" what else am I going to do in that situation? Let them get saves when I pick someone up? They are the ones swarming near each other while injured. Don't bother trying to say I'm the problem.
I'm merely pointing out that 8 charges is very rare on a gen is nothing short of a myth.
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@Sava18 said:
Even with a bunch of gen perks you should very rarely get past 7 events per gen.
Charges halfway used up in seconds.
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@sharpef3rn said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3624093#Comment_3624093
tell me youre joking on this one. My dude. You used up 3 hits on the middle gen sure. no explosions elsewhere. but you got three downs and you think you would be concerned that that middle gen only has 5 more hits. Like that game is essentially over AND you got 24% regression on the gen. and dont say this is just an example because this is the only example sans eruption+ Pain Res+ surge that you would get 3 events this quickly. Its means multiple downs making the need for that defense much less and you will still have plenty
My effectiveness in the match has absolutely nothing to do with the point. The point is that 8 charges can get eaten up incredibly fast.
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@ratcoffee said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3624078#Comment_3624078
...do you think the 8 charges is for the entire match?
it's per generator. each generator has 8 charges. that's like 5% of your total charges
Talking about a per generator basis. That generator in seconds has already lost nearly half the charges for the rest of the match
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Regression events can happen super fast. Prime example.
https://www.reddit.com/r/deadbydaylight/s/kOOkEYxO5X
In about 30 seconds, nearly half of my charges would be eaten up AND if I was using any kick perks such as Nowhere To Hide, I have that many times less that I could use them.
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@Seraphor said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3624059#Comment_3624059
I never said it didn't...
Read it again.
My bad, totally misread that. As for ToT, not necessarily. ToT had a significant cooldown. Kicking it would use up a charge and NOT activate ToT if on cooldown.
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@ratcoffee said:
a lot of people in this thread really failing to understand just how big the number 8 is, in terms of "number of times to blow up the same generator, as a killer"
i highly doubt regression power will take anywhere near the hit you think it will. if you truly are going to be affected by this change, good tbh this is the change you deserve
I have had 3 regression events within seconds of each before. That's nearly half of my charges gone for the entire match in under a minute. That's simply not scalable.
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@Seraphor said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3623883#Comment_3623883
You're procing ToT with the same kick that sets up Eruption. You spend one of your 8 regression events to activate both perks...
Anyone running multiple gen kick perks, such as Nowhere To Hide and Overcharge for example, is going to similarly benefit..
You would be incorrect. The kick to prime eats a charge and the eruption exploding eats a charge. That's 2.
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Kiss nowhere to hide and trail of torment goodbye. Now you're punished for using them because it takes up precious regression charges.
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@sharpef3rn said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3623872#Comment_3623872
Trail of torment has a 60 second cooldown and thats after the undetectable stops. I dont think they will be affected by this since its 8x per gen
Surge is designed to happen rapidly with no cooldown. I've have this trigger 3 times in a matter of a minute before. Eruption takes TWO tokens up. There's also nowhere to hide uses. All sorts of reasons that charges will get eaten up fast. Every charged used up is one less charge you could use trail of torment. You can literally have a situation where you could never even use ToT on a generator.
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@sharpef3rn said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3623865#Comment_3623865
I am just gonna say if you get 4 eruptions on a single gen youre doing fine. You took 60% off the gen and got 4 downs. I dont think you missing the 5th eruption is gonna make a big deal... UNLESS youre just trying to hold a three gen sooo I am not sure how much thats gonna effect it.
Doing fine has nothing to do with the issue. This is having a chain reaction of several kinda of perks getting disabled. This is supposed to stop killers who camp 3 gens at the beginning. This is actually affecting everyone, even people not camping gens whatsoever.
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@Gabe_Soma said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3623872#Comment_3623872
In which universe do you kick the same generator 8 times to trigger Trail of Torment also considering the perk already has a 60s cooldown?
@UndeddJester said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3623872#Comment_3623872
Again I'm not convinced... Trail has a looooong cooldown, I typically find with Trail that even if survivors are Jonny on the Spot with removing my Trail, I still get what... maybe 6 uses most of the time?
Thats on any gen...
Also Trail is actually buffed, because it takes 5 seconds now to break Trail, rather than just tapping the gen.
You have to look at the big picture. If you erupt a generator 3 times in a match, then you could only use ToT on that generator 2 times. If that gen happened to also get hit by surge twice, sorry you're simply not allowed to use ToT on that gen, at all.
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@sharpef3rn said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3623845#Comment_3623845
Yes on eruption but IDK where you're getting trail being nerfed. Trail for the most part got a buff if the survivors need to be on it for 5 seconds to stop the regression. and if it just stops when the regression stops for the instant the survivors tap it even if they dont fully stop the regression it would be the same as it is now because its cooldown would make it really hard for a single gen to experience 8 events (given how difficult it is anyway). A perk that I do think gets slightly buffed by this is Surveillance because you can see a gen go white/yellow/white. meaning a survivor just stepped off it. I am more curious with if the perks will keep the regression happening if triggered even if they are maxed on regression events, and about the skill check thing.
Every time you kick a gen, you're using up 1 of the 8 charges. That means at most you can only ever get 8 ToT uses on a gen, and that count goes down every time the gen is hit by regression. Has surge hit that gen 5 times during the course of the match? You can only use ToT on that gen 3 times, now. Have you erupted that gen 3 times in the match? You can only use trail of torment twice now on the gen!
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@UndeddJester said:
I don't think so... 5% for the kick now instead of 2.5%, so just by kicking the gen you get more value...
You thus get more time to use Eruption, and get an additional 10% when it goes off. That's a 5% net gain over what you would have gotten kicking the gen again, and you didn't have to go back to it do it.
I mean whenever I've used Eruption, I can't remember a time I've kicked a gen more than maybe 3 times.
What about trail of torment users? They kick gens regularly to trigger its affect and can have zero reason to actually do it for regression
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Yup. On top of that, surge was nerfed awhile back because it was redesigned to trigger multiple times without cooldown. These tokens are going to end up getting eaten up fast before the halfway mark of a match. For every 2 surges on a generator, that's 1 less eruption you are allowed to use, too! At BEST you are now only allowed 4 eruptions per generator. Yet again, more and more regression nerfs. It even removes trail of torment in the match eventually! Killers do a lot of excessive kicking to trigger trail of torment. No more! Like using nowhere to hide? Don't you dare! You'll have less regression choices later.
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It will for sure remove trail of torment from being used which is an unnecessary nerf. Also, eruption actually takes up TWO charges to be used. Ridiculous how fast these charges will get eaten up, especially with rapid damage perks like surge which was NERFED to lower damage to compensate for being DESIGNED to be used multiple times.
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On the other hand, eruption just got nuked from orbit. No one will be wanting to use a low damage regression perk that takes up TWO of your 8 damage charges.
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I just find it hilarious that a strat when the killer has high stacks now will be for one survivor with plot twist to go with a buddy hidden somewhere and just spam plot twist over and over (the other survivor can recover them so plot twist doesn't actually fully get used) to eat up all of the killer's tokens.
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@Peanits said:
I just want to quickly chime in and mention that this mechanic does not kick in immediately. In order for a generator to be blocked, it would need to suffer from 8 separate regression events first. For context, this is well above the average number of times a given generator will be damaged in a given match.
The system will kick in eventually in those scenarios, but you will still have an opportunity to capitalize on their mistake beforehand and secure some hooks.
This isn't accurate, though. You're only allowing 4 uses of eruption per generator. Typical matches has way more cases of eruption triggering. It's even less eruption allowed if the killer also brings another gen damaging perk. This is significantly going to affect all kinds of killers. For example, if I down a survivor and surge hits a gen, and a survivor pops back on it, once I kick that generator to prime eruption, then once eruption triggers, I've already lost 3 of my 8 stacks for that generator. That could easily all happen within a 30 second time period. So in 30 seconds, I've already lost 3 stacks. If I go kick the gen to use eruption again, suddenly I've already lost 6 of my charges. That means every 2 times surge procs, I get one less eruption use for that generator. Surge was nerfed but was also changed to be able to apply multiple times in succession to take advantage of survivors out of position while injured. We are supposed to be using surge, a lower damage regression hit but multiple times. With this change, surge users will have their perks entirely disabled pretty darn quick.
As a reminder eruption REQUIRES a kick before it can be used, so every eruption use takes 2 charges up. That adds up fast in NORMAL gameplay! How in earth does this only affect killers who camp 3 gens at the beginning of the match? This affects every killer who uses a generator damage perk. Hell, it even hurts trail of torment users who usually can kick any generator to go undetectable. Even THAT perk will suddenly be disabled for the match eventually? This is silly.
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@Reinami said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/401975/exploding-gens-when-letting-go
I don't believe that failing a skill check makes the gen start regressing. It just gives a blanket 10% off the progress.
Correct. Missing a skill check doesn't cause regression to kick in.
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The 8 limit is way too restricting. That means killers can only use eruption 4 times per gen at best, and if they have any other gen damaging perks, that makes even less times eruption can be used.
Why make eruption cause 2 uses to be used up? In order for it to work it HAS to be kicked first, so every time eruption is used, it's two uses used up.
Killers now are also punished for kicking low damaged generators. Have pop? Can't dare kick gens any more unless the generator is at least 50% damaged, otherwise you use up your 8 charges for a measly 5% vs a higher percentage pop kick.
Why is it every damn patch makes killers have more and more things to balance and worry about all while having to abide by survivor laws? This is getting ridiculous. There a generator! Oh, I'm not allowed to damage that. If I do, then I can't use any of my more significant damage perks.
This ridiculous 8 limit needs to apply to kicks only. BHVR said this is supposed to only affect people who 3 gen at the beginning of the match. How does this remotely only affect those kinds of killers? This hurts E V E R Y K I L L E R who uses any kind of regression perk. Not to mention, survivors will no longer care about them 3 genning themselves since it does not target just killers who protect 3 gens from the match start as BHVR said it would.
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As a killer main, I often feel that swapping to survivor is more for the experience and less about points because I typically always simply get more bp as a killer. I suppose it makes sense considering you're 1 person vs 4 people so you SHOULD get more bp...but that doesn't change the fact that bp income as a survivor is a drag.
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Officially, a survivor escaping is a win for that survivor. There is no actual survivor "team". Personally, however, I feel that 3+ survivors getting out is a win for the "team". I feel that 2 survivors out is a tie with the killer, but BHVR doesn't agree with that assessment, so I can't ignore that. Regardless, that's still how I personally feel about it.
For killer, 3k+ is a win (letting people escape obviously doesn't count towards a loss to me).
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Simplest way to stop tunneling (outside of the EGC) is for the unhooked survivor to become shrouded (dissappear in smoke) for 10 seconds. During this time, the survivor makes no noise, shows no blood, loses clipping with all players, cannot interact with anything. This gives ample time to vacate the area. The killer would have absolutely no idea where the unhooked person went, and the survivor can't weaponize this status with bodyblocking.
If you have to have a lore reason for it, have the hook start to eminate a dark ring visible to the unhooked survivor that slowly grows. That's the entity upset that the survivor got free and is stepping in personally to grab them back. If the survivor gets hit by this growing darkness, then they get downed again. This, in turn, forces the survivor to vacate the area and away from the hook area and away from the killer.
The killer could still try to hunt down that player later in the match of course, but this at least stops tunneling straight off of the hook.
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@oreoslurpee said:
the anti tunnel system only brought in MORE tunneling, the anti-camp system brought in MORE camping, im worried that the 3 gen "solution" isn't gonna fix anything and only make things worse. i guess it depends on how the system would work out, but if basekit borrowed time is only bringing in more tunneling, then how do we know the 3 gen solution will ACTUALLY fix the 3 gen problem?
survivors shouldn't be punished into a position like that all because they literally did their objective, its stupid. i really hope the solution doesn't make M1 killers even worse
There is no anti-camp mechanic in the game at the moment.
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@Peanits said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3620917#Comment_3620917
This is just an objective answer to the original question. It has never been truly accepted by players. No matter how far back you go, as long as tunneling as a concept has existed, there have been people who were unhappy with it. There was never a time where it was unanimously liked and there's a long line of discussions documenting it.
This is not an opinion of myself or the team - in fact I do my best to avoid saying anything opinionated because frankly that's not why I'm here
(and the fewer people I can have at my throat the better). My role here is to take feedback, read discussions, and clarify where I can. You're right that people look to us as representatives, but I would hate to see us avoid any difficult topics because of it. I would much rather see the forums as a place where developers and players can discuss things openly.There is always a chance that someone will read something we say and interpret it to mean something different, but we can't let that keep us from talking to y'all. To be perfectly clear, we do not speak in riddles. There is no hidden message between the lines. When we acknowledge that something has always been contentious, that's all there is to the message. That does not say whether or not we like it, whether or not it's here to stay, or whether or not we agree with it - it's simply acknowledging that disagreements about it have always existed.
I think it's just a misunderstanding of the OP. When they ask was it more acceptable back then, they didn't mean if the community accepted it unanimously. They just meant did more people back then view it as part of normal play that didnt need changing vs now.
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@Hensen2100 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3620399#Comment_3620399
You could always just run monitor and abuse for a 16m terror radius killer?
Also people sleep on the cat carrier addon, and it gets ranked low on every addon tier list I have seen for whatever reason.
I usually run that and monitor and it does basically get you a pseudo stealth killer. Depending on the map it's actually incredibly useful to get burned by the turrets and I will find myself looking for them to get another stealth boost at times. Then usually emergency bolts and brutal strength so you are a beast in chase with the power or temporarily a stealth M1 killer who can still chase pretty well because of brutal.
Xeno is also one of the better trail of torment users, since he can kick a gen in the corner of the map then show up somewhere else entirely with the stealth a few seconds later.
There's plenty of options to play him heavily geared towards stealth but people need it to be a braindead button to hit like Chucky I guess
I absolutely love ToT on space kitty.
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@Peanits said:
Improving tutorials is something we're always interested in, and any suggestions you may have are more than welcome. You're right that it's not a small game anymore, there's a lot more to learn nowadays if you're just picking up the game. Though one thing we do need to be careful about is overwhelming someone who's playing for the first time. Everyone's got their limit, you can only soak up so much information at once before stuff starts going in one ear and out the other. We really try to focus on the fundamentals (what is your objective, what kind of things you can find around the map to help you, etc.) because they are guaranteed to come in handy no matter what your first match is.
When it comes to specific Killers, though, then things get a bit more complicated. There's 34 Killer so far, so if each one had even a 2 minute tutorial, you'd be sitting through a lot of guides before you can start playing. That's a lot to take in, and I'm not sure how many people would be willing to sit through all that. We do have loading screen tips that appear the first few times you play against any Killer. These briefly explain how the Killer's power works and what you should do or not do. I'm personally a big fan of these. They make sure whatever you need to know is fresh in your mind, and the fact that they appear while you're loading means you don't have to go out of your way to find them.
I would instead have individual killer videos as optional, but have a primary killer tutorial that applies to most killers. You could even outsource the individual killer videos out to community members if you wanted - I'm sure there are plenty of people willing to have a chance at being the official tutorial video for a particular killer.
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@BlackRabies said:
Never heard of DD. Do know the lore of FNAF though and it's a really good story. My vote would be FNAF.
I know a lot of people give fnaf hate thinking it's a kids game, but Springtrap is genuinely a horror villain. I don't think many of those people really even know who he is and what he looks like. The recent movie shows him before he actually died, but post death, the dude is just downright scary.
https://youtu.be/CPpECiWvSwQ?si=o4zKTdH3cWKGWL1C -
@indieeden7 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3612662#Comment_3612662
Boons could never have worked like hexes, the only similarity that they have is that they are tied to totems, in every other possible way, boons are significantly weaker than practically all hexes.
Consider8ng they can just be rebooned, I'd say it makes sense they are weaker. Hexes are gone permanently when destroyed unless ANOTHER perk on top of that is used, but then even after that they can be permanently gone.
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@I_CAME said:
because you'd have to ban half the playerbase to stop it.
more reastically, not allow it. As long as they design a mechanic around its use, it can't be actionable. If giving up on hook right off the bat was something to be punishable, they would simply make giving up on hook right off the bat not to be possible ie removing struggling entirely the first few minutes of the match.
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This was probably one of the funniest moments I came across.
https://youtu.be/goyhXKma2gw?si=dAdgd8ct4UzYWUf9 -
@xEa said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3619192#Comment_3619192
horror films. We are playing a video game mate. The typical expectation is to have fun in a video game, not one persone, but all of them. Most wont considere being the Lamp to the slaughter exactly a lot of fun.
But lets talk about horror films. A great example is Halloween 1978, one of the best Slasher movies of all time:
Victims:
- Judith Myers
- Mechanic
- Annie
- Bob
- Lynda
Survivors:
- Dr. Loomis
- Laurie
- Sheriff Bracket
- Nurse Chambers
- Lindsay Wallece
- Tommy Doyle
Do you see where this is going?
And we are playing video games based off of those horror films. Most of the horror film baddies do kill off their targets, but a very few amount against all odds claim victory over the killer. The same works with dbd. It's the uncommon situation but still very viable that targets actually live to see another day. That's the fun of playing survivor. We aren't playing counterstrike, we went up against Myers himself and actually survived against all odds. We survived Pyramid Head. Wouldn't be very interesting if it was just another call of duty match.
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@crogers271 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3619179#Comment_3619179
Back to draw, I already told you that with how dbd is, there is no draw situation. You ask me to define how a draw is in dbd, and I keep telling you there is no situation where draw would be called.No, I'm asking you to define a condition where someone neither won or lost.
You stress the individual survivor nature so let's throw everything else out but that. If each survivor is in a 1 on 1 vs the killer win or lose and the killer kills 2 and 2 escape, that's two wins and two losses.
That's a draw.
The devs have stated on numerous occasions its not a traditional 1 person vs 1 team of # which is where I think you're getting confused. BHVR treats DBD very differently than the usual asymmetrical games. In this one, every player is their own "team". As one the designers once said, it's every man for himself.This is where you keep changing your argument by popping back to the survivors.
If every survivor is there own "team" and the killer kills (wins) against two and losses (escapes) against two, that's a draw.
To win, you get a 3k+ or you escape. That's it.To win you need a 3k+. Fine.
To win you need to escape. Technically you need to escape to increase MMR, which is different than winning, but we'll go with it.
You then conclude that a 2k is a loss. That makes no sense. A 1k is a loss.
A draw between teams is those teams neither winning or losing which is literally not even possible in dbd.This is where you get pedantic. When we are defining the word draw in relation to winning and losing the general style of competition is symmetrical. The key to use of the word is neither won or lost, which is a draw. In a symmetrical competition the only way this can be achieved is via equal results. This however is an asymmetrical competition so there are varying ways to get there.
Again back to definitions, if you neither won or lost, how would you define it? I'd use the word draw.
The only thing close to a draw would be a draw between the killer and a survivor if they hatched, but that's if you don't count hatch as a true escape.Hatch escape is a null result if we're talking MMR which is related to a draw but its own kind of thing.
If you completely disregard what the designers say and make up your own rule that all the survivors are on the same team and win or lose together, then sure, your made up concept of how the game works could say 2k is a draw.You are over focusing on some dev statements and ignoring others. Part of the reason devs don't have a clear win condition is they want people to play however they want.
But let's throw all that out and just focus on mechanics. As killer you can have a match where your MMR neither increases or decreases. That's a draw.
In the end though, the designers say it's not that way, so until they decide to change the game over to a standard asymmetrical game of 2 teams, the reality is that this game essentially is a game of 5 teams...one player per team.You're making a big mistake here. Outside the change in 6.4 that makes team play more valuable, the survivors are not opponents. They do not have to view each other as allies, but they are not opponents. If I die I cannot gain MMR, if I escape I cannot lose MMR.
So you can view the survivors as four different teams from their perspective. But that is irrelevant to the killer's perspective. His MMR change is impacted by the overall performance against the four survivors.
The killer can have a result where he neither gains or loses MMR. That's a draw.
Why don't the devs just make it team vs team? Why encourage everyone man for himself? I'm thinking they know how unstoppable a team purely working together is with dbd (thats also why tournaments have rules where survivors are limited in what they can use to make it more fair), so they throw in different things to encourage some selfish plays.You're reading way too much into the idea of when devs have said survivors can be out for themselves. Devs are trying to recreate horror movies where the people who go on a selfish route usually, but not always, die because of it. They are emulating a theme.
Also, they've avoided creating clear win conditions because the game isn't designed with a traditional competitive condition in mind. You can argue that if the word draw doesn't apply to DbD, neither does win or loss. They very much want to appeal to groups of people who want different things from the game.
At this point, I'm not sure if youre just trolling. You keep asking me to define a DBD draw, and I keep telling you there is literally no situation in dbd where no one wins or loses...hence me saying there's literally no way to draw.
I keep going back to the survivor team as an example to show how flawed the idea is to consider them a single whole team. I'm talking about your point of view that the survivors win or lose together, so a 2k is a draw. It doesn't work.
if the killer gets a 2k, he didnt draw because who is he drawing against? A draw requires an opposing team to also draw with. There are 5 teams hes competing against. Who did he equally neither win or lose against? When I say survivor team, im saying based on your point of view, that they are a team and in turn in or lose together. Reality check - they dont. You say half their team wins and the other half loses. I'm saying that doesn't make sense. Teams win/draw/lose together. You're saying if half their team wins, then it's a draw with the killer. However, BHVR already stated that every survivor who escapes wins. You can't have both at the same time. You can't have winners on one team and no winners on the other and claim its a draw. With a draw, NO one wins or loses. Im just pointing out how flawed the concept is that survivors are a team and can draw but still have winners.
It's not 1 team vs another team. It's 1 team vs 4 teams. Should it be that way? I personally don't think so - I think the survivors should be considered a team and win or lose together, but BHVR disagrees. Regardless that I feel it should be 1 killer vs a survivor team, that's simply not how they designed it, so I can't just pretend that my preferred way is reality. The devs make the call on what the reality is. When all is said and done, drawing isn't possible with how BHVR sets it up.
Again, though, MMR adjustments are entirely separate discussion. MMR adjustments typically don't care about who wins or loses - they are merely designed to try to make future matches more balanced. For example, a chess rating of 1600 might not even lose ranking if he loses to a grandmaster, and a grandmaster might not even gain ranking if he wins vs a 1600. MMR in games don't simply take wins and losses as their rating system. That's why a 2k is considered mmr neutral. It wasn't enough to go up or down in MMR regardless of the killer not winning. Mostly a flawed MMR style, but that's what we have. Some people suggest it should be based off of hook states instead of kills.
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@mecca said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3618022#Comment_3618022
Why you think a killer should automatically have an advantage? Where is fairness, what to games actually being about skill? With an unbalanced game, losing or winning as survivor doesn't mean anything. And winning as killer seems unfair and undeserving.
I mean, that's the whole basis of all these horror films...survivors trying to win when the odds are not in their favor. Halloween would have never been a popular franchise if he was just some random dude with no power over the victims. Granted, Scream literally is a regular person, but that's just a fan favorite because of how silly it is.