RpTheHotrod
RpTheHotrod
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@Archol123 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3606811#Comment_3606811
So you are all just ignoring all the time you use on the decoy gen that gives the killer a longer game, therefore delaying it, therefore still being effective game delay.
You're ignoring that the gen has to be completed anyway. If you get it too 99%, that's not a delay, that's you finishing 99% of that objective which has to get done anyway. If PR hits, it's going to hit an objective. A decoy just means it doesn't hurt a difficult objective and instead an easy objective (one where the killer won't check often since it's so far out of the way).
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@Saiph said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3606748#Comment_3606748
Your number are accurate, they are just extremely misleading. Your math leads to 47% killer winrate because you count draws as 0 for killer, but 0.5 for survivors, so draws increase the survivor winrate, but not the killer winrate. Of course you are free to define a win as you want (and so am I). Regardless the underlying killrate is still 60% and what you're omitting to say is that even under your definition killers and survivors are still on a very uneven playing field.
I'm not defining a win, BHVR is. They said each individual survivor has their own win condition. They either escape, or they don't. There is no draw scenario. As for killer, BHVR has never declared a killers win condition, but the majority of the playerbsse agrees that 3+ kills is considered a killer win. 0-2 the killer did not win. Bear in mind, draws require both sides to neither win or lose, and that is impossible in a game where its 1 player vs 4 individuals with their own win condition. That means there is no such thing as a draw in dbd. However, for the purposes of MMR modifications in a match, BHVR DOES treat a 2k as MMR neutral, with 0-1 being negative and 3+ being positive.
And yes, as I already said, killers and survivors are at an uneven balance. Killers have a subpar kill rate by a few percent, and that's not even including extra kills from survivors giving up on first hook. The killers are balanced around them not winning the majority of their matches (getting 0-2k). If they balanced around 62.5%, then killers would roughly win half their matches (IF we were disregarding the fact on how common survivors just give up on first hook and inflating killer kill counts).
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@Archol123 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3606754#Comment_3606754
Dude you wasted 90 seconds on a random generator, just so deadlock only effects that one... How on earth is this not considered slowdown???
And on a side note... So the killers sees that the gen that gets deadlocked is always the same, you really think he is not going to notice and do something about this?
It's only a waste if you never bother finishing it. That 99% has to get done sooner or later. Using the decoy strat, you still have that 90% done plus deadlock/PR never touches any gens that matter. Also a killer can't pop a regressing gen, but let's say a survivor touched the gen to get it back to 99, if a killer pops it, then that's yet another priority gen that was protected from pop.
Even if you throw all of that out, that 99% repair would have to get done somewhere. Sure. If PR hits it, you would need to top it back off to recover that 25%, but if you didn't do a decoy gen, you would be doing that 25% somewhere else...one of the important gens.
No matter how you spin it, a decoy gen hard counters PR and Deadlock. As for pop, a killer would have been better off popping a priority gen than a generator that's extremely far away from the rest of the gens. It would actually hurt the killer to waste a pop on a decoy gen.
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@Sava18 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3599653#Comment_3599653
The overall kill rate was 53% in Prime DH/IW/CoH meta. The killer meta only favored mobility/high tier killers at the time with ruin/undying. The kill rate should have been lower, but on average survivors don't try as hard to win as killers do. Every time you queue up as survivor there is a solid chance someone is just following the killer around looking for chase, doing the rift or just doing whatever. I've gone against and played with swfs who's sole intention is to interact with the killer as much as possible before dying doing 2 gens in 8 min and I don't blame them, that's the most fun you can have on survivor, that's literally every survivor youtube video.
In league 53% win rate is broken, in dbd there are far too many factors that make these numbers lose their meaning. Also survivor takes longer to be good at and as a result bad players being paired up together is always killer sided.
Point is kill rates are very misleading due to the nature of the game and the playbase especially.
I'm not saying killer is weak by any means at the moment, the games only been in a better spot for killers once.
Fair statement. Some survivors give up on hook giving killers a higher kill rate than they would have, and other survivors as you mentioned just follow the killer around looking for silly chases or get obsessed with having to try to do flashlight saves instead of objectives. This essentially inflates kills meaning killers are actually weaker than they even appear on their kill rates since many of their kills are because of throwing survivors.
On the flipside, there are some killers who like to just farm meaning survivors get undeserved escapes inflating their numbers, as well. However, I feel farming killers are far more rarer then survivors who give up on first hook or throw matches for silly killer interactions.
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@Saiph said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3606113#Comment_3606113
This is quite honestly, and I'm sorry to say, a very dishonest attempt to manipulate math.
Yes, win rate is not exactly pick rate, depending on how you count draws, but in the context of a balance discussion the difference is just cosmetic and will disappear in the averages. In fact, in your very own example (half 2k, half 3k) killers only win 47.5% of the time, that's true. But survivors win literally 0% of the time. So now they go from 1.5x less chance of winning, to INFINTE less chance, so the game would appear to be even more killer-sided, not less.
The point remains, a survivor is on average 1.5x less likely to survive, than the killer is likely to kill them. I am baffled that you believe that even with a 60% killrate there is still a way to make it sound like killers and survivors have roughly the same odds. They do not. They are, by most game standards, on a very uneven footing.
You may need to recheck your math. Claiming survivors win 0% of the time is, well frankly I just assume you're trolling here.
As for my numbers, they are accurate. Bear in mind, a killer winning means 0-1 survivors won that match. A killer not winning means 2-4 survivors won that match. That means 47.5% of the time on average, 0-1 survivors are winning their match. The other 52.5% of the time, 2-4 survivors are winning their matches.
Bear in mind, the game is not 1 killer vs survivor team. It's 1 killer vs 4 individual survivors each with their own win condition per the devs statement. For example, a 2k means the killer did not win (they need 3 or more to win), and the survivors had 2 winners amongst them. Alternatively, if the killer wins with a 3k, that means 1 survivor won, as well. It's a weird way to balance the game, but that's just how they do it. I think it would make more sense for it to literally be team vs team. I suppose they don't want someone to feel it's pointless to escape if they already lost 2 survivors. That being said, all it matters to survivors is if they escaped or not regardless of other survivors escaping or getting sacrificed.
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@Archol123 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3606071#Comment_3606071
There is no way they will ever do that...
That's BHVR for ya - same team that thought MFT was an amazing idea to add, so amazing that they should ignore the mass negative feedback it got during the ptb.
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@Iron_Cutlass said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3606249#Comment_3606249
If they were Yellow, it would make them hard to see on Coldwind.
Instead I think it needs to be dynamic and change to directly contrast the environment/map.
Way too much effort for BHVR, lol. I doubt they would keep track of that for every single map that releases all for the sake of one killer.
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Despite the debate here, I'd like to at least say I'd prefer if solo queue players had a +50% bonus that stacks on top of anything else.
The result? 4 things.
1. Genuine solo queue players are at least compensated for their inherent t disadvantage.
2. Players who might typically SWF may more tempted to just play solo queue. This would reduce the amount of swfs that already inherently have an advantage over killers.
3. It wouldn't affect people who still prefer to swf regardless. It'll still play as normal for them with no changes.
While BHVR will never punish players for playing with their friends, we can at least add an incentive to have the amount of SWFing reduced without punishing ANYONE.
As for 4...it is a downside
4. There might be less killers available to play. I don't really have anyone to play with dbd, and solo is sucky, so killer works for me. However, I might be inclined to solo queue more if there was an incentive to do so.
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People will whine regardless. I literally had a hack squad furious that I was tunneling out their most problematic hacker. Having 15 seconds of background player speed following me from hook to hook sabotaging. Nope, you're getting tunneled right out of the match. On their stream they said I was such a weird guy that I was actually able to beat them. (Was using unusual tactics I deploy when vs cheaters)
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Fair. They need to change them to yellow. I'd say red, but then we'd have issues in the borgo.
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@Saiph said:
Killers have a 60% kill rate, survivors have 40% escape rate. That means, if you as an average person click the "Play as survivor" button, you are reducing your chances of winning by 1.5x.
That is not balanced.
I'm sure you'll find a lot of reasons to explain why that's fine or you don't mind it, but stop pretending it's "balanced". Balance means 50-50. 60-40 is actually very imbalanced because of the way how percentages work.
60% kill rate means the killer does not win the majority of their matches. Just making sure you aren't confusing 60% kill rate with a 60% win rate. If that doesn't make sense to you, a 50% kill rate means a 2k. A 75% kill rate is a 3k. If you split that in half then a 62.5% kill rate would put killers at winning half their matches on average. However, since it's balanced around 60%, it means killers on average are actually somewhat shy of winning half their matches meaning they only win around 47.5% of their matches. The 40% on the survivors side you have to keep in mind that it is at an individual level and in reality there are 4 times the amount of survivors, so 40% is somewhat of a misnomer. If each survivor has a 40% chance at escaping, that's a fairly good chance at at least two survivors escaping preventing the killer from getting a win (3k). You also have to consider that many killers are actually under even the lowballed 60%, so it's actually worst for them than it would appear.
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For m1 killers, the middle gen is difficult to defend since it takes so much time to get there, and by the time you do, the survivors have plenty of easy exits to be nowhere near by the time you get there. Since it's the middle of the map, losing that generator usually means losing the map since all of the other gens are so spread out from each other with the middle one missing. The ONLY saving grace the killer gets is if there is a 3 gen at the circus area. If not, it's game over for the killer the moment that middle gen upstairs us completed.
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Not gonna happen, but I'd love to see this anyway, lol.
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@caligraph said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3605953#Comment_3605953
Deadlock targets the highest progress generator. If a generator is on 99%, it will always hit that gen. Therefore gens being worked on actively dont get slowed down. Then after completing 4 other gens you can go back and finish the remaining 1% progress, bypassing deadlock entirely.
Exactly. Same concept for PR. Have them hit a gen you could not care less about getting damaged...the one that is safe to work on. It prevents PR and Deadlock from ever having an effect on generators that are priority and match defining ie one of the 3 gens in a 3 gen. This allows survivors to power through priority gens much more easily and quickly.
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@Archol123 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3606054#Comment_3606054
It is already completely obvious that this is how it is, but nobody wants to watch comp with all these busted things... Besides it already having a rather small audience...
This however does not solve any of the problems that revolve around different skill levels of players and how to properly solve them... Like how a killer like trapper can demolish weak players but struggles against better ones, how do you make him better against better players without making him even stronger against weaker ones?
It is not like people don't already know that, it is just that basically nobody knows how to solve this... the problem is that survivors probably only become the power role from a certain point of skill onwards, which barely anyone reaches soooooo...
I mean the most obvious and easy to do thing is remove busted addons and such but other than that...
I'd say you are spot on in that assessment. It would require reconsidering a lot on balance. The big problem is that the game is killer sided at low mmr, decently balanced at mid mmr, and survivor sided at high mmr.
I know no one would want to watch competitions, but that is the point. Sometimes you gotta put fire under the designers' to realize there's a problem. What's the solution? Well it would help if the designers would stop constantly making weaker killers weaker while leaving stronger killers untouched (ie MFT even being THOUGHT was remotely acceptable. It demolishes weak m1 killers and does nothing vs blight or nurse, for example).
Perhaps we should consider a survivor handicap at low mmr that gets removed once you reach mid mmr. This protects new players, but once you have experience under your belt, the training wheels go away. Could be faster gen repairs - I'm not certain. The point is, let's give newer survivor players a boost to make up for their lack of experience, and since they have some "get stomped" protection, we can start balancing the game somewhere between mid to high mmr. That way, at the highest levels, killers are actually viable and stand a chance as-is. Since low mmr survivors would get a boost, it would help them deal with weaker killers getting stronger.
Now that I think about it, that's EXACTLY what competitions do...at high level, they give killers a boost to make them playable (lots of survivor rules that hurt survivors). If we did the same for low mmr survivors, then that whole section is covered in balance. This would leave just mid to high balance. With weaker killer buffs and stronger killer nerfs, this would generally balance the game better where high competition would no longer need the "get stomped" protection. I mean, we'd start seeing more than just nurse and blight every match in competitions, too. That would make watching competitions a lot more interesting in itself.
TLDR; put a separate balancing factor for low mmr. Balance the rest of the game halfway between mid and high mmr. At extreme mmr, killers would at least be competitive even if they are underpowered a bit. With weaker killers being buffed, we'd see them more often even in competitions...and since lower mmr would get survivor buffs, they can still manage against the weaker killers that got buffed in the process.
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In general, it's the survivors fault. However, I'm not gonna lie; as a killer main, if I see the western town map has 2 gens in the field and 1 at gallows, I usually just eliminate 2 survivors then just let the last 2 go. At least I get something out of it, but otherwise it would be a non winnable game for survivors. If I'm feeling extra generous, I might just let them all win.
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@Archol123 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3606035#Comment_3606035
Didn't that part get removed soon before even going into the current version we have? They basically tried several things out with that weird screaming interaction and DMS and what not...
You are correct, as I recall using surveillance to "get back" the information as to what gen got hit by PR.
@Archol123 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3606028#Comment_3606028
I didn't ask for the explanation why, I asked for the source of "the rules are there"... That's not what you are stating however... When you say the rules state this and I ask where... Then I am obviously not asking for the explanation of why they are stating a specific thing but just the source of where in the ruleset it says that specific thing.
I mean the reason why they are aiming for 60% is that getting 1 k is rather easy and a 4k can often be snatched because of the hatch mechanic... Which is why overall you won't be aiming for 50%.
If you nerf Nurse or Blight tournaments would become really onesided when you allow everything... I don't think it would even be close.
And that's what I'm saying about tournaments...allow everything. Make it painfully apparent just how one sided this game is. Maybe we will finally start getting some real balance changes. If we allow everything (like how all public matches are) and admit that doing so would make the game extremely one sided...THAT IS A PROBLEM. The base game is extremely one sided. That should be addressed. Nurse and blight need to be dropped down a few notches, and the weaker killers need some love. Survivors are the true power role in this game right now.
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@Archol123 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3606020#Comment_3606020
A statement made without proof can be disregarded without proof, it is as easy as that... You are the one presenting something beneficial for your point, you need to display your evidence... I'm not putting work in to make your argumentative point working.
You would basically need to buff every killer to Blight/Nurse/Spirit/Chucky level of strenght... That would demolish the vast majority of players... I don't think that is a good idea for this game... Usually balance kind of tickles down through the ranks of players, but for this game it just does not work this way...
I told you the rules are there. If you want an explanation of why, look it up yourself, yeesh. If you asked me why killers don't simply block survivors into a corner for the entire match, and I say it's against the rules, I'm not going to put together an essay for you nor go looking up the rules about it. If you seriously want to know why, look it up yourself.
And no, they need to buff up weaker killers and nerf the stronger killers like nurse or blight. I mean heck, they balance the game around a 60% kill rate. That means on average killers aren't winning, lol. A 50% rate would be a 2k. A 75% rate would be a win with a 3k. It would require a 62.5% to generally have a 50% at a win as a killer, and a lot of killers are below even that 60% rate that's already 2.5% too low.
I say let competitions play with all content allowed. Then we'll see that at higher play, killer just isn't feasible. That's a problem we should not ignore.
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@Archol123 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3605979#Comment_3605979
I'm neither sarcastic nor new, but you still waste time on that generator that eats all the pain rez, so sure it would be more beneficial if it worked on a generator you want to protect for your 3 gen strat if you are aiming for that, but overall it still slows the game down. So I don't really see much of a counter there... The overall time the survivors take to finish all gens gets increased and it also occupies a survivor to tab it again, especially if the generator is somewhat further away this is still better than it just hitting nothing. It is not ideal, but it does its job.
I have never heard of such a rule, but sure if you show me where the rules for a dbd tournament state that then ok I guess.
Allowing everything would just make comp really boring... Give survivors 4 Syringes and the most busted perks and you will really struggle to find a killer being able to get anything done that game, especially if you also enable them to play on the most bs maps out there, they need restriction because the game is simply not balanced for that level of play and for some reason BHVR still wants the RNG to sometimes dominate over skill...
Regarding your competition rules, I'm not going to do your own research. I simply said I don't know why it's not allowed. Can only guess. Same reason I don't know why only one player can run deliverance.
Regarding your last paragraph, I entirely agree...and I think that SHOULD happen. Maybe we will start seeing some proper balance once BHVR and others realize just how broken the game is against killers. They see at the highest levels that killers staying strong, then we ended up getting perks added like MFT to the game for over half a year when BHVR doesn't realize killers are only stable because those competitions have survivors playing with one hand tied behind their back. I mean heck, they balance the game around a 60% kill rate. That means on average killers aren't winning, lol a 50% rate would be a 2k. A 75% rate would be a win with a 3k. It would require a 62.5% to generally have a 50% at a win as a killer, and a lot of killers are below even that 60% rate that's already 2.5% too low.
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@Archol123 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3605943#Comment_3605943
How does 99% a gen make this perk useless?? Survivors had to 99% that gen first, therefore spending like 90 seconds of time for, sure it does not really help you defend a 3 gen, however it still eats up a lot of time like that. Also you would need to spend time going back every time after pain rez hit to prevent it from regressing to 0 and pushing it up to 99% again so it can guarantee to eat the next pain rez again? That whole argument makes no sense....
Yeah sure you can get 0% regression out of it if you are either unlucky or don't use it strategically, and I don't necessarily think this is a bad thing, I think it is quite good if you need to think at least a little bit strategically and don't just basically kick every gen you see and what not, same with this perk.
If it does not work against good players, why do people in comp use it then? Make your point with different arguments if you want to undermine that statement, but I don't think that's easily doable...
Not sure if you're being sarcastic or not, but by some bizarre reason you aren't or perhaps you're new...
The generators further out, typically far separated from the others on most maps, are generally risk free generators. Killers won't really patrol them often. By 99ing that, all the priority gens towards the center or the 3 gen area are completely safe from PR. Your team doesn't care if a risk free guaranteed generator gets hit or not. You can easily and quickly repair it. In fact, competitive teams generally refrain from even working on them because you want that extremely far away generator from the rest to be one of the last 3 gens. You essentially want that gen to act as a magnet for PR.
As for competition teams, keep in mind competitions aren't a reflection of the actual game. There are a load of rules that allow or do not allow certain things, so they have to abide by a ruleset that the game as a whole does not actually respect (for example, only one person can run deliverance). There's a reason they don't allow decoy generators. I don't know the reason why, but I assume because it dismantles PR as even being a useful perk (one of the very few surviving regression perks left in the game), or maybe they declared leaving gens topped off but not finishing them is unfair towards the killer info to prevent 4 gens from being done at once (killer playing one way since he thinks hes winning just to find out it goes from multiple gens to 1 gen left in a moment). I don't make the competition rules, ask them, not me.
Personally, I think competitions should allow literally everything to give a more accurate representation to game balance. The last thing we need is for the devs to balance the game around competition rules when those rules don't apply in actual gameplay. If competition rules declare that even 2 deliverances is broken, maybe BHVR should start questioning why. The fact is, there are a load of rules survivors have to abide by in competitions to make killer even playable. Otherwise, there'd be no competition.
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They probably wanted to put the game more into skill and game sense instead of just having information handed to you for free. You have to determine what perks are in play instead of simply knowing.
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I run distortion on literally all of my builds. It's incredibly useful. Not only does it protect you, but it feeds you information on what the killer is running. One person alone with distortion can warn their swf that lethal pursuer is in play, for example. Out of all the countless hours I've played as survivor, I'd say maybe 1 out of 10 matches do I ever actually run out of tokens without even trying to restock them, and when I do, I just can stay in the TR to restock fast.
@Gabe_Soma said:
Distortion is an ALL-IN perk, similiar to Adrenaline.
You can either get full value of it if the killer is running aura reading perks, or get 0 value if they run 4 slowdown perks e.g.
You are acting as if everyone who uses it are rats and selfish, which has nothing to do with the perk. If someone want to be a rat, they would be regardless.
This is a classic overreacting rant situation.
It's a guaranteed value perk for free with 100% uptime in most cases. If the killer is running aura reading perks, you can provide information as to exactly what aura reading perks are running to your team (or just to you if solo queue, but face it, the game is designed around the expectation of swf). If the killer is NOT running aura reading perks, then that's still useful information to feed to your team. You'll know if BBQ is in play. You'll know at the beginning if it's safe to hop on a gen immediately or not vs lethal pursuer. You'll know if its safe to hide nearby a gen if it gets kicked. You'll know if the killer is reading your auras at loops when you vault. You'll know if it's safe to continuing to heal someone off to the side of the killer comes into the general area. All of those situations can literally prevent a down from happening which is HUGE. Otherwise, you'd have to learn the hard way for EACH aura reading method, and that hard way can end up costing you the match.
The perk may hide your aura as its primary purpose, but the information it provides is incredibly useful whether or not the killer is bringing auras reads. Both knowing what the killer is OR IS NOT running can prevent hooks from happening.
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@Archol123 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3605593#Comment_3605593
Pain Rez is probably (one of) the strongest killer perks in the game, it regresses 100% progress max. if you compare it to its first version with 15% each hook you will need 7 hooks to make somewhat even, with how scourges are spread this was already not a given and in addition the time to make it to scourge was often not worth it... So you could argue that the perk is somewhat stronger now compared to its first version. I don't think it needs to be buffed at all...
Any competent team can make PR useless. Just 99 a gen that's farthest away from the other gens. Killers typically avoid those very far away gens since up too much time to get there. That gen eats up all the PR tokens and protects the priority gens more centered in the map from it. Once all the tokens are eaten up, you just finish that gen.
On top of that, PR can literally do 0% per token. If the killer scourge hooks a survivor just after a gen is completed, there a pretty solid chance the next gen is below 25% meaning the value is reduced between 0-24% depending what the next gen is at. Due to this, the killer is actually discouraged from scourge hooking if a gen was completed recently...and if a scourge hook is the only nearby hook, then he has to risk permanently losing a token or slug the survivor and lose out on a hook state. That's right, this perk literally can discourage killers from hooking.
The perk as a whole is just bad unless survivors are oblivious to the killer using PR or otherwise don't know how to completely nullify its effectiveness. It's sort of like blood warden, simply wait until someone gets hooked before opening a gate or hopping into a locker before you go down so surge doesn't activate. It has a hard counter that's super easy to do as long as you don't have some solo queue player running straight to the gen finish it...but that's a survivor lack of experience issue, not a perk issue.
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There is literally no anti camping system in the game. Nothing TO update. Not to mention guarding hooks is literally one of the killer's objectives. Survivors have to decide when or if to do a save. Risk vs reward.
Maybe you're trying to talk about the anti facecamp system which is entirely a different topic. It works incredibly well. I have not seen a single face camper since it was introduced. It's mostly aimed at bubbas who would just sit at the hook.
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P100 ghostface using the old-school black outfit with the zombie mask to make his mask not be so overtly telling from a distance yet maintain a classic look. The mask essentially looks more worn and torn, a bit darker, but still maintaining the classic look (similar to Scream 6). I could go bush camo with the scarecrow mask for extremely good camo, but you can't beat the classic look.
For survivor, I run a blendette outfit, but for December, I'm running her Christmas outfit for fun!
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Bear in mind, a 3 man swf squad can be just as devastating, but the fact of the matter is, most SWFs are just friends playing with each other, not teams trying to be a competitive death squad.
SWFs certainly have the power to be completely unstoppable, but people that organized are few and far between.
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Counter-intuitive perk. Killers don't have time to lose chases, and it only really helps if you're not able to consistently hit people. Essentially, it's a perk that only helps when you're not getting hits in as a whole (if you're consistently hitting people, you're only getting one stack at best). It's a perk to help when you're losing. It's better to put on a perk to help prevent you from losing from the first place.
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You're asking to be immune to pickups the entire match. Just always run to a pallet and go down at one. This is a really bad idea.
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@Archol123 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3604552#Comment_3604552
The grass is literally setting the graphics on low...
Again, I'm talking about people who modify the game files to lower the setting further than what ingame options allow. This entire discussion is about using modifications to the game outside of what's possible ingame.
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Almost all of the perks in the game require no skill to use.
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@CorvusCorax86 said:
"..sit behind a rock for half the match."
Extremely rude categorisation of many players using this perk. I assume you lost a chase, got hooked, then your fellow survivor who was hiding escaped and a heated conversation ensued in endgame chat.
I'm fine with hiding and not learning the ropes of looping, thank you.
Distortion is an absolutely fine perk. The only time I lose all my tokens is when killers use more than one aura revealing perk. And I'm fine with that.
It's a fine perk, but the restocking speed should be slowed down. Unless the killer is running something with a constant onslaught of aura reading, I rarely dip below 2 tokens. They recharge so fast.
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@Archol123 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3603701#Comment_3603701
You are using settings that are in the game, I don't think that can ever be considered unsportsmanlike... No matter your reason for it.
We aren't talking about ingame settings. We are talking about external filters. If you're talking about the grass example, those are also not ingame as they involve editing .ini files.
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I have about 20 years of forum moderation experience under my belt. Trust me, you don't want to be on a forum that just removes negative feedback. The amount of times ive had to jump on fellow moderator's cases for that is kind of sad.
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@plattenpanzer said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3603699#Comment_3603699
If a survivor is trying to body block your chain you can basic attack the altruistic survivor and apply forced penance to them.
...and what does that have to do with forced hesitation, exactly? It only helps when you down someone.
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@CountDrunku said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3603852#Comment_3603852
Thanks for the info!
Still doesn't really bother me, to be honest lol. We got people running around in neon colors and costumes. Some maps, darkness doesn't even exist. If they want their games to look like crap, fine.
If the original poster doesn't want to play with PC, he should just turn off crossplay.
It's completely crazy trying to lockdown the output device. If you're playing the game, you don't even know if the Killer is using a filter.
Its just all dumb. I only commented because the original poster made... well, there's a lot in the OP lol.
Doesn't really bother me since it's not some hardcore competitive game. Just pointing out what they are trying to bring up. I think it's lame personally, but it's not really worth worrying about it. Devs won't do anything about it anyway, and I'm in it for the theme as opposed to sweating to win. That's why my ghostie wears the og black outfit instead of the super good bush camo with the scarecrow mask. Less effective? Sure...but ya can't beat the classic look!
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@Rudjohns said:
Just don't touch the gen that explode with Pain, for the most part
Nothing better than troll the killer by leaving the gen regressing
Seriously, there was a game once with the last gen at about 90% of progress and it exploded with Pain. I ran off but this solo queue teammate didn't realize the killer would definitely Pop the gen, they went to repair again. The killer came towards the gen and found the 3rd injured teammate. The killer downed them, picked them up, but dropped and kick the gen. Picked them up again, the other teammate touched the gen, the 3rd teammate died on hook and the killer went back to kick the gen again. 2 Pops in like 30 seconds. I don't need to say that gen regressed to almost nothing and we all died.
Just a tip, if the killer has Pain and Pop, just let the gen regress, unless they are very far away from the gen.
Yup, it's only a problem if survivors make poor decisions. Survivors just want to be able to hold m1 and w and have a care free coast through every match without the need to think. The amount of times I have to desperately emote to another survivor to NOT touch a particular gen is staggering. People just see a gen and flock to it like moth to a flame. :/ maybe there is a reason that everyone else hopped off that gen and left it at 99? Ever consider that, Kate?
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@CountDrunku said:
I am a new, console player to this community. And I have not been hurt by any "cheaters". I've been playing for a month, almost completed the Rift, and still earning plenty of blood points.
There's been some awesome, fun, bad, and angry matches. I lose, win, and have fun. Everything you stated has not been a problem for me. As a matter of fact, how do you even know if the games you've played have been plagued by your version of cheating?
And, if you do not want to play against PC, turn off crossplay.
You do not have a good idea. And, if you need to be told point by point why it isn't a great idea, then.... have fun being angry. No one is going takes seriously.
Welcome aboard! He is coming from the fact that filter use is a very popular thing in the community. He's just bringing up the topic of how common place it's becoming. Almost every streamer has their brightness up incredibly high where even pitch black shadows look clear as day. It does make their game look like total crap, however.
Just clarifying that it's not someone with a conspiracy theory - filter use is fairly common here.
Here is an example
You can essentially see anyone from any distance as long as they are in view, and you can make their clothes super bright vs whiting out everything else.
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@Archol123 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3603473#Comment_3603473
I would not even say it is unsportsmanlike because everyone can use it? I mean sure if you are a console player using old hardware you probably cannot, but potentially you can... That's good enough I guess. And let's be honest for a second being able to hide in plain side just because the game does not offer brightness or similar graphics option as base cannot be really considered part of the gameplay anyway... Stealth is fine and all if you are cleverly hiding behind cover, but it should not be like Garden of Joy mainbuilding for the first few months.
I'd say it is, just as much as people who lower their graphics to the lowest possible settings in shooters to remove all bushes and grass so they can spot people miles away when those people would otherwise be able to use grass as cover to approach more safely.
It really makes the game a lot more sucky when you are forced to make the game look like absolute garbage just to stay competitive.
You're essentially making their experience a lot more terrible by soft forcing them to downgrade their gaming experience to stay competitive for the sake of trying to get an unfair edge over the them...I'd say it's considered unsportsmanlike. You aren't just playing the game as intended, you're directly strongly encouraging them to have to do the same to keep the balance fair. That's affecting their gaming experience in the real world.
So there are two elements.
1. You're effectively setting the bar for people to be encouraged to lower their gaming experience to stay competitive.
2. You're taking away their strategy of utilizing the game world in a clever way. They go out of their way to duck into the shadows, but nope, you can see them without any issue while they CANNOT do the same to you. It's cheap; it's dirty. Literally an unfair advantage.
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I like the idea in theory, but wouldn't that just end up causing survivors to constantly go up against the flavor of the day map after map?
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@Archol123 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3603389#Comment_3603389
That entirely depends on what the devs say... If they explicitly allowed this type of hardware, aka whitlist it... Then it is completely fine to use and obviously not cheating... You do realise that this is the case with filters and crosshair right? You can call it unfair and what not all you want but 1. The devs explicitly allowed such things (so by definition it is not cheating) and 2. It is unreasonable to even think about banning base functions of gpus driver systems...
Not disagreeing. I'm just pointing out that they have a point it's unfair and such, but BHVR is going to say it's cool to use because they simply can't stop it from happening and have no way to even know who uses it. At the very least, it's unsportsmanlike, but since it's not detectable, BHVR has no choice but to okay it.
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@Coder said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3603403#Comment_3603403
So standing 10 mts from the hook, mainly if it's a nurse or blight, it's not considered camping? It's just "existing on the map"? Ok them.
It's proxy camping, but it's also a completely valid form of play per the devs and is expected behaviour from killers by the game design just as much as attacking people working on generators.
Now as for how effective proxy camping can be on certain killers....that's something that needs to be figured out at a per killer basis. For example, a Trapper proxy camping isn't nearly as strong as a nurse proxy camping, and if that nurse's capability is too strong, then you are welcome to make a feedback post about nurse. However, it is entirely unrelated to proxy camping as a whole which in itself is fine.
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Nurse, blight, and legion...in that order.
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From what they said, expect some wild changes to your matches for awhile until your mmr settles into its new home. Maybe you found your new home?
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@Coder said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3603396#Comment_3603396
That's ridiculous. He can just stand there and when a survivor comes close he'll just approach to the hook since a survivor being around the hook pauses the bar. So it nullifies everything you just said.
It's not supposed to work when survivors are nearby. It's just to stop cases where some soul is being ignored by their teammates while the killer just parks in their face. It's not supposed to replace the interaction of survivors vs killer in a rescue.
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@WashYourHands said:
deadlock
I do think deadlock basekit would be better overall for the game than corrupt intervention.
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@Coder said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3603391#Comment_3603391
Then what is that bar for?
Thats for anti face camping. That's solely to prevent the rare occurrences where a killer would just park himself in melee range of the hook. It was mostly a mechanic focused on stopping bubba one shot campers.
Protecting a hook in itself is literally one of the killer's objectives. The devs have stated this many times. That's also why survivors get bonus points for doing a safe unhook rescue. Even the score system keeps in mind a safe unhook vs an unsafe (guarded) unhook.
With anti face camp, it gives survivors a chance to get in without taking guaranteed damage before the unhook. Essentially allows for some wiggle room for rescues.
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There is literally no anti camping feature in the game. What are you going on about? Not to mention guarding a hook is literally one of the killer's objectives.
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@HugTechLover said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3600553#Comment_3600553
There is nothing dishonest or unfair about filters. I invested in a PC, the GPU has filter settings. You want filters? Get a pc.
I get that you're saying, but imagine a piece of hardware you can attach to your gpu allows you to make walls transparent. Hey, it's just hardware, if you want transparent walls, just buy the hardware. It doesn't change the fact that it is unfair and frankly put would be considered cheating. Just because something comes with your hardware doesn't mean it should be allowed. Loads of online games ban macro use, for example, despite being a part of just about every modern keyboard out there.
The problem here is that filters are undetectable, so BHVR can't really do anything about it. The darkness is part of the game, trying to duck into the shadows and avoiding sight. Filters absolutely do remove that gameplay element from the game.
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@ratcoffee said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3599704#Comment_3599704
I am certain that you genuinely believe your long-winded condescension makes you right, but I fail to see how your acknowledgement that a win-draw-loss system is the most intuitive way of understanding killer performance does anything other than reaffirm the original point of the stats I posted, red herrings about how you're totally a games industry insider aside.
Need I remind you that my entire argument has been that looking at 2k as a draw, more as a killer win and less as a killer loss (the criteria you seem to be saying you agree with) demonstrates that the current kill rate of 53% results in more killer wins than losses, and that MMR was only an aesthetic point in that argument? Surely you wouldn't have forgotten something you could so easily scroll up to remember
I'm not being condescending, I was just explaining how MMR systems work since youre unfamiliar with gaming. Only two people would ask what the gaming industry is, those not experienced with gaming or someone just trolling. I was giving you the benefit of the doubt.
I'm saying I don't agree with BHVR. We SHOULD have a draw system, but we don't. I'm just pointing out that people keep building certain viewpoints on the incorrect assumption that there are draws in the game in regards to win loss ratios. We don't. We should, but we don't because BHVR had decided to build the game around 5 player individual win conditions instead of a killer vs survivor team. I'm acknowledging their thinking on this isn't a good one, but im clearing up that despite that opinion, BHVR has set up the game where there are no actual draws. They can adjust MMR however they like, of course, since MMR adjustments are independent of wins/losses.
Look at it this way, a survivor wins by escaping the trial. The killer didn't kill them - they escaped to see another day. However, considering that escaping via a hatch is an undeserved/handed out by rng/whatever you want to call it win, BHVR realizes that it's probably bad to boost their mmr, so although the survivor escaped, for purposes of mmr, a hatch escape is considered MMR neutral (doesn't go up or down) despite the survivor successfully escaping the trial. It's a consolation/undeserved/handed out/rng or whatever you want to call it win...but a win nonetheless. Yet another example that MMR adjustments are not related to wins/losses. They are in fact independent of them as MMR adjustments only seeks to pit similarly skilled people against each other.
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@ratcoffee said:
I like how you say something to the effect of "Because some survivors MMR goes up and other survivors MMR goes down it can't be a draw, we need to consider how the MMR calculates the result" and then later say, effectively, "We cannot consider how the killer's result affects their MMR because nobody in the video game industry uses the MMR system that is being used by BHVR, a company within the game industry." Never mind how DBD uses the system you say nobody in the industry uses, neever mind how IDV, the closest viable competitor to DBD, very explicitly calls a 2-out a draw for both teams (thus proving you very explicitly wrong about your "in the industry" argument), those contradictions really put on full display the internal inconsistencies in the position you're trying to hold. At this point it's fairly clear you're just holding whatever position advocates increasing killer strength with no regard to what you said one paragraph ago, so I see no point continuing this conversation.
I think you completely misread my post. Try re-reading it. I'm saying BHVR is adopting the industry standard of MMR adjustments being entirely separated from a win/loss system. You just claimed I said the opposite which shows you didn't bother reading what I said, or you're having trouble understanding it. Let me know if I need to break it into simpler terms. What I DID say is I think BHVR needs to get away from the industry standard in this game because I feel it SHOULD be based on a team vs team win/loss condition (and then we could have a legitimate draw this way!). They should encourage the team to want to win together as opposed to the every man for himself how it is, now. Would csuse for less players to just abandon each other so they can get their own win. However, BHVR doesn't agree, so it is what it is.
Since you're new to gaming, I'll at least explain this. MMR systems typically are not supposed to care about wins or losses. MMR system's solely are designed to try to pit you against similarly skilled players. Wins give you rewards, points, etc. MMR cares about performance. That's why in the industry you have games where you can win but go down in mmr, or lose and go up in mmr. If someone is getting their butt kicked and the other team feels sorry for them and allows them to win, should the mmr system go up so that they get their butts get kicked even harder next match? Of course not. MMR are supposed to be graded on performance. BHVR tries to mimic this for killers based on just kills in the match, but it's certainly flawed. They do however have some semblance of grading the concept with pips. You can literally win but get 0 pips. There's an understanding that wins just give rewards and bp, but performance at some level is what matters. The whole point is that they have the game set up where every single player gets their own win or loss condition, but they have to make MMR adjustments which by design are NOT simply tied to a win or a loss...that's supposed to be measured by performance. BHVR just makes their adjustments for killers of negative neutral or positive based on the amount of kills. It's far from perfect, but even that doesn't have a direct connection to a win or a loss. There is no draws in dbd. They just treat 2 kills as neutral for the purposes of mmr which...again...does not connect to winning or losing. MMR system's are independent from that.
MMR adjustments are not a reward or punishment. They are to try to put evenly matched opponents against each other. That's all.