RpTheHotrod
RpTheHotrod
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@crogers271 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3619109#Comment_3619109
I'm going to hope you're being sarcastic when you say one side not winning and the other side getting a partial win is even remotely considered even/draw. If not, I'd suggest you looking up the definition of a draw.The key phrase there is partial win. You switch back and forth between considering the survivors a side and saying they are each on their own.
If you're using the stance that each survivor is on their own then a 3k is still partial win and a 1k is still a partial loss by your argument.
If you're using the argument that the survivors are "a side" then a draw is definitely possible.
You tease that considering definitions of a word in a topic about that word is silly, but if we sre going to discuss something, definitions are critical. We can't just make up words, lol.No one is making up words. You're imposing an absurdly strict interpretation.
I'm going to say this multiple times over this post: but if you have a better word for neither won nor lost, let's hear it. Because I run it through thesaurus and dictionaries and I keep seeing draw pop up.
You tease that considering definitions of a word in a topic about that word is silly, but if we sre going to discuss something, definitions are critical.Definitions are short general statements about how a word is used. There is no precise science behind what a word means, the definition is merely a simplified statement of general nature of word usage (which is why definitions change over time). Being most competitive situations are symmetrical the fact that the definition might include a word like team is not actually key to what the meaning of the word is.
That said I see nothing in the definition of draw that excludes it from this usage.
Drawing simply doesn't fit in this kind of asymmetrical game where there are no actual teams and instead (per the devs own statements) it is based on a 1 vs 4 individual players game with their own win/loss condition.Then provide a more accurate word to any of the above situations if draw doesn't fit.
If a killer gets two wins and two losses how do you define it?
If the killer neither won or lost how do you define it?
There is no survivors win or survivors lose statement.That's because, once again, this isn't designed as a team vs team game.The game allows people to play it under different conditions, independently or as a team (this isn't even getting into the idea that each person can view the end results independently).
But no matter how you view the survivors, it is the killer vs the survivors. The killer can get two and lose two. That's a draw. The survivor screen is irrelevant to the killer game, the killer screen never says win or loss in any type of result but that doesn't mean us using the words win or loss is somehow wrong.
If two sports teams played each other four times and the results were two wins and two losses we'd call the overall result a draw even though none of the games were individually a draw.
That being said, the devs a year or two ago did mention that they want survivors who get sacrificed but their teammates get away to get some sort of bonus or somethingThat's been in the game since 6.4 -
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3253337#Comment_3253337
Key portion:
Starting with 6.4.0, Survivors ratings will be based both on individual & team performance. Whether you gain or lose rating will still be determined by whether or not you escape, but how much your rating is adjusted will be affected by how many Survivors escape the trial.For each teammate that escapes:You gain more rating if you escape.You lose less rating if you die.For each teammate that dies:You gain less rating if you escape.You lose more rating if you die.
For example, if you die but every other Survivor escapes, your rating will hardly drop at all. In other words, keep your team alive for best results! With this change, we aim to put a bit more emphasis on teamplay without removing the lone wolf playstyle.Aye, that's what I was referring to. I couldn't remember if they actually implemented it or not. A solid good change.
Back to draw, I already told you that with how dbd is, there is no draw situation. You ask me to define how a draw is in dbd, and I keep telling you there is no situation where draw would be called. A killer needs 3 kills or more to win. That's his win condition. A survivor needs to personally escape that's their win condition. There is no situation where a killer has killed a survivor and that survivor escaped, or where a killer did not kill someone and that survivor did not escape. The devs have stated on numerous occasions its not a traditional 1 person vs 1 team of # which is where I think you're getting confused. BHVR treats DBD very differently than the usual asymmetrical games. In this one, every player is their own "team". As one the designers once said, it's every man for himself. To win, you get a 3k+ or you escape. That's it. A draw between teams is those teams neither winning or losing which is literally not even possible in dbd. The only thing close to a draw would be a draw between the killer and a survivor if they hatched, but that's if you don't count hatch as a true escape.
If you completely disregard what the designers say and make up your own rule that all the survivors are on the same team and win or lose together, then sure, your made up concept of how the game works could say 2k is a draw. You're welcome to imagine the game however you like. In the end though, the designers say it's not that way, so until they decide to change the game over to a standard asymmetrical game of 2 teams, the reality is that this game essentially is a game of 5 teams...one player per team. 4 of those teams are encouraged to work together against 1 team to increase their odds, but at the end of the day, it's every man for himself. The survivors do NOT currently win or lose together.
Why don't the devs just make it team vs team? Why encourage everyone man for himself? I'm thinking they know how unstoppable a team purely working together is with dbd (thats also why tournaments have rules where survivors are limited in what they can use to make it more fair), so they throw in different things to encourage some selfish plays. The devs say not every swf is a seal 6 squad. They focus on the chaos factor that on average, the survivors are not entirely playing together. They get their own challenges (and some of those challenges actually work against optimal play!), and you have situations where you're frustrated with that claudette cleansing totems instead of helping with your gen. You're going to have that survivor who leaves to get their own win and leave you to die on hook. I think the devs are banking on the individual survivors not necessarily going for pure teamwork and to do their own thing. They acknowledge organized swfs can be rough, but they balance around the chaos factor of each survivor doing their own thing at the end of the day. That's why they aren't nerfing optimized SWFs, they are balancing on the expectation that this game is a 1 vs 1-1-1-1.
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@RFSa09 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3619151#Comment_3619151
I believe this case would be similar to what we currently have (3 partially completed generators after hooking your first survivor), but I still think that developers should benefit more survivors by helping each other (that's also one of the reasons I don´t like the concept of the hatch)
The game designers did say that the game is designed around 1 killer vs 4 individual players each with their own win condition and specifically NOT a killer vs a survivor team. I think maybe because they know that a whole team of 4 working together always would be incredibly strong, so they add some elements of the game that tempts survivors to do their own thing. Sort of an every man for himself mentality but understanding that working together puts the odds more in your favor. It's like an element of chaos. The survivor challenges that discourages effective teamwork is an example.
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It's because generators would fly even faster than they already would. All 4 survivors could just chain generators together and finish within a few seconds. Everyone slaps on distortion, and you can have 3 gens done before the killer could even find anyone. With distortion, you can quite easily avoid killers. Granted, there's ultimate weapon, but that's inevitably getting nerfed at some point.
On top of that, if everyone got a bonus to speed when working on the same gen, it would discourage killers from ever chasing anyone. If they chase someone, that's 3 people hammering out a gen in seconds. That means every chase would result in a guaranteed loss of a gen. The game would essebtially turn into running back to a gen constantly to scare away survivors but never following up with any of them with a chase.
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@crogers271 I'm going to hope you're being sarcastic when you say one side not winning and the other side getting a partial win is even remotely considered even/draw. If not, I'd suggest you looking up the definition of a draw. You tease that considering definitions of a word in a topic about that word is silly, but if we sre going to discuss something, definitions are critical. We can't just make up words, lol. Otherwise I could just say when I say killer "wins", it means he gets 0 kills. Discussions fall apart if what we are talking about isn't defined. If we are talking about draws, then we need to be considering what draw actually means.
What you say about asymetric is true...and that's the point I've been hammering is. Drawing simply doesn't fit in this kind of asymmetrical game where there are no actual teams and instead (per the devs own statements) it is based on a 1 vs 4 individual players game with their own win/loss condition.
This is further reinforced in the post match screen. There is no survivors win or survivors lose statement. If 3 or 4 escape, it doesn't say survivors win. If 2 escape, does not say draw game. If 0 or 1 escape, it does not say survivors lose. It's either YOU escaped or YOU were sacrificed. It also lists each individual survivor and if they met their win condition or not. That's because, once again, this isn't designed as a team vs team game. The only thing the game cares about is each individual's personal win condition. Although MMR don't necessarily tie in historically with win conditions in gaming, even MMR in DBD only looks like each individual player. You alone can get sacrificed and the other 3 survivors all escape and you will go down in MMR. While the MMR statement is incredibly weak on my part since MMR, I am merely pointing out that everything in DBD is at an individual player basis.
Now, if you're saying that you say is how it SHOULD be, then I entirely agree with you. I think dbd SHOULD be a standard killer vs survivor asymmetrical game. The survivors would win and lose together. If a survivor ends up getting sacrificed but the other 3 escape, then the survivors would all win together...even the person sacrificed. I feel this would make more sense, AND it would actually allow draws where the killer only got 2 kills. I feel this is how people assume the game is or at least feels that's how it should be. HOWEVER, the designers disagree with that assessment and have clearly said that it is a 1 killer vs 4 individuals game. That's just the way it is. That being said, the devs a year or two ago did mention that they want survivors who get sacrificed but their teammates get away to get some sort of bonus or something, so perhaps the designers are considering moving away from the current system and moving to a two team system. We will just have to see. I think it would ouod be a good move, as it would promote survivors to work together more instead of an every man for himself mentality.
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@xEa said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3618808#Comment_3618808
Oh no, not this again😥
Its because we have a draw outcome. And a 0k is a relevant variable. So is a draw neither a win or a loss. There we go:
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/13YDOXFP0TH6/grafik.png
Myers is at roughly 60% killrate. This means, as we can see, the killer wins 51% and only looses 33% of the time. 0 kills is an outcome in DBD, and you have to put this into account. In fact, winrate with a 60% killer is compared to looserate actually even much higher then lossrate.
Another example:
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/1ZYZ30AM7UHU/grafik.png
60% killrate on plague translates into 54% winrate and only 34% lossrate. 0 kill is a loss, and 2k is a draw. You win significantly more games with her then you would loose.
No discussion needed, i only wanted to show some proof.
Not sure how many times someone has to point out that drawing is only a thing if both sides neither win or lose. Considering that each player gets their own win condition, drawing is not a thing in dbd. They do count a 2k as mmr neutral, however. As mentioned countless times before, mmr adjustments aren't the same as winning or losing. You can go down in mmr in games when winning, as can you go up in mmr even if you lose. BHVR also understands this, as the same concept can apply to pipping. You can get a 3k and still depip, for example.
I know that pesky definition of drawing requiring both sides to neither win or lose bugs you to all end, but that's literally what a draw is. A flat 62.5% kill rate means the killer on average wins half their matches, as that is 2.5 kills per match. That means one match would be under 3k (killer did not win), and the next would be a 3k (killer wins) as the .5 + .5 carries over when averaging matches for one extra kill. Anything below 62.5% would mean on average the killer is below a 50% win rate, and anything above 62.5% would mean on average the killer is above a 50% win rate. Even if you decides to throw the definition of a draw out the window, it's still the killer not winning, and if the killer got only 2 kills and would "draw" (keep in mind we are using your made up custom definition of a draw in this example), you still have that pesky fact that two of survivors (or half the survior team if you want to look at it that way) won. Not much of a draw if the killer entirely doesn't win and the survivor team half wins, now is it? Exactly. That's why there can't be a situation where neither team wins or loses. Every match, SOMEONE is winning. If someone is winning, then there isn't a draw situation.
The game devs stated themselves that this is a 1 player vs many individual players design. It's a 1 vs (1-1-1-1) design. Not a 1 v 4. Each survivor gets their own person win condition. That means winning or losing is very binary. You win, or you don't. You 3k+/escape, or you don't. The closest thing you could argue a draw would be is if a survivor finds hatch. Maybe you could argue the killer and that survivor had a draw. The killer didn't kill, and the survivor didn't "really" escape, but that's still arguable.
I do not see how the killer ENTIRELY not winning and half of the survivor players winning is considered a draw. Sounds entirely survivor favored, to me. Draws are supposed to be equally "no wins-no losses". In a 1 vs 1-1-1-1 of binary outcomes, draws simply don't work. As a finale reminder, this whole concept is unrelated to MMR adjustments as clarified earlier. BHVR can adjust MMR however they see fit. The purpose of MMR is to try to make the game more fair irregardless of win/loss conditions.
This is further reinforced in the post match screen. There is no survivors win or survivors lose statement. If 3 or 4 escape, it doesn't say survivors win. If 2 escape, does not say draw game. If 0 or 1 escape, it does not say survivors lose. It's either YOU escaped or YOU were sacrificed. It also lists each individual survivor and if they met their win condition or not. That's because, once again, this isn't designed as a team vs team game. The only thing the game cares about is each individual's personal win condition.
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I'd prefer CI just to be basekit. Survivors already got a good number of basekit goodies. XD
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I'd say how fast they return should slow or not gaining tokens while in chase. Distortion is in almost ALL of my survivor builds, and it's incredibly rare that I don't have at least one token available. Only times I don't is when a killer is doing some sort of massive aura read build with addons and such.
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@MikaelaWantsYourBoon said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3618396#Comment_3618396
Even weakest killers are above 50% , so i don't know. I am not saying weakest killers should not be buffed but most of killers are just doing fine. This game is not favoring survivors. Even most of SWF teams are very much defeatable.
A 50% kill rate would be pretty terrible. That would mean on average, killers aren't ever winning considering they need a 3K+ to win (75%+ in the match).
@HerInfernalMajesty said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3618018#Comment_3618018
That is where it currently is I believe, 40/60.
However this is a point of contention within the community. I agree with you, I believe it should be 40/60 as well.
Bear in mind 60% is a target kill rate. A 60% kill rate is roughly 2.2 kills per match on average. Considering killers need 3K+ to win, this means that over a period of time, killers with a 60% kill rate should win "roughly" have of their matches (slightly under 50%). 60% kill rate is often misunderstood as a 60% win rate. There's definitely a difference. A 75% kill rate in a match is a win, but we clearly don't want a 75% kill rate in general since that'd just be killers on average always winning. For a true 50% win rate for killers, the kill rate would need to be 62.5%. If we really want a 60% win rate, then the kill rate would probably need to be more like the upper 60's.
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@OwlWithMustache said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3618512#Comment_3618512
They are a troll and a baiter.
The reason is that its hard to implement and even harder to do well. I've played one of the few games that has native m&k support (Smite) and the input lag is unbearably bad, same in paladins. Sony and microsoft need to be interested in expanding support but they aren't since there really isnt enough of a reason too in their eyes.
Not trolling or baiting. You're literally reaffirming what I stated. Consoles simply aren't designed with keyboard and mouse in mind. It isn't properly supported. At best it's held together with spit and glue. I'm saying consoles need to start officially supporting it - put some real effort into making it actually viably as opposed to just some option half thrown together that barely functions in any viable form. Console controllers are just terrible. If you're buying a console, you're accepting that significant downside of poor controls for first person games. Many games don't support it because it is such a hassle to try to get it right because it natively doesn't get it right. Game devs aren't going to bend over backwards to fix console designers design flaws - they have enough on their plate.
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Consoles just have inferior controls by design (one of the reasons I don't play on them). There is a reason console shooters have built in aimbot.
Buying a console comes with dealing with its downsides. Consoles need to start officially supporting mouse and keyboard, imho. I feel the whole control expectation and just having built in aimbots is so antiquated of an idea. It sucks being a console gamer on first person games. Consoles needs to evolve.
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Even as a killer, I'm not really a fan of undeserved insta downs (not a fan of bubba, for example). Would be at least be nice if you could destroy a dull totem to figure out if a hex is in play. At least NOED has a counter since its nerf a while back.
That being said, if NOED goes, so should Adrenaline.
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@Rokku_Rorru said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3617280#Comment_3617280
There isn't enough time on the hook to allow for that most of the time.
Sounds like the killer managed to take advantage of the survivors team weakness of having someone in danger of going down near a hook. Well played by them. Injured survivors should be steering clear of someone on hook unless they absolutely know they can perform a trade. Then again, it could have been a surprise exposed play, but once again, well played.
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This is a survivor issue. Why are you pretending it's a killer issue?
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@Ayodam said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3616312#Comment_3616312
Xeno disables them in like 3 seconds. They’re definitely meant to take it out of power, not buy a survivor 3 seconds. Lol
You would be incorrect, here. It's a win win situation for the survivor. Either the killer continues chase and loses his power, or he stops to break the turret and buy the survivor a few seconds of distance gained (which is a big deal in chases).
@The_Daydreamer said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3616749#Comment_3616749
I kinda disagree here. Survivors are strongest at the early game since the killer has to apply pressure and mostly does it against one survivor meaning three can be freely on generators if played correctly. Xenomorph tho has a good early game since the tunnels help tremendously to find a survivor + you can most likely run in runner mode within said first chase without any problem. And runner mode is really strong.
So survivors setting up turrets (Being slowed and place it somewhere good) is basicaly making the early game weaker. And most turrets don't get Xeno out of its Runner Mode so it basically saves them 2 second meanwhile setting it up takes basically around 10 seconds. And pallets do nothing against xeno as soon he is close enough.
I wouldn't say turrets are useless but they are not strong from my experience.
They are incredibly useful. They completely bypass undetectable and tunnel stealth, and while it takes up time to set them up, it's seconds in CHASE that matter, so 10 seconds of set up is far less important than 3 seconds of free chase time. Chase time is what matters because that's where it counts. It could take 20 seconds to set up a turret. At the end of the day, getting value out of a chase is supreme.
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Bruh, April Fools is over 4 months away. That's literally the entire point of the Xeno - he is more dangerous at vaults and pallets at the cost of just about everything else he could have been given. He has map traversal, and he's dangerous at pallets\vaults...AND you have the ability to disable his power as a survivor. That's it. That's his entire kit. That's his entire point.
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@FilthyLegionRevival said:
What about giving it the blast mine treatment? Separate button for standing with the medkit in hand for the styptic so it could be used even when out of charges.
Its already incredibly strong. Doesn't need a buff, imho.
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@MrDardon said:
Surveillance. It's a tracking Perk with 0 counterplay.
It gives you really nice info, I combine it with Discordance so those 2 tell me how many Survivors are on a gen.
I loved surveillance pre PR nerf. Do PR and surge, and you got some very nice information. PR just isn't worth it, now, and it's hard to justify running surveillance on surge alone.
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I think a lot of it is that as solo queue, you tend to get matched up with people who are just obsessed with trying to do flashlight saves and otherwise just having their teammates go well out of their way to protect each other. That tends to leave you without much attention and actually doing the objective while the swf runs around acting all altruistic with each other getting all the attention. If you do end up getting hooked, they often only look out for each other.
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@I_Cant_Loop said:
Basekit corrupt would help a lot. Survivors have gotten a bunch of free basekit stuff recently to counter killer strategies that they don't like. Killers have gotten basically nothing in return and as was mentioned above Corrupt got nerfed when literally no one was asking for it. So now the only way for killers to apply any kind of pressure is to tunnel and survivors wonder why killers tunnel all the time. Slow the game down a bit and tunneling won't feel required to secure a kill.
I think I'd rather have basekit deadlock, but corrupt intervention would certainly help.
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@[Deleted User] said:
This is a matter of patients. Whoever is willing to wait the longest wins...also certain perks like no way out or wake up and certain killers like wraith or billy can shut these situations down. Either lose and go next or wait until the other player gives up.
Some survivors are definitely stubborn. I remember going afk (went to run to the restroom and grab some snacks) once there was one survivor left. I was just letting them get hatch. Game back a whole 10 minutes later and they were still at the exit gate trying to "wait me out" thinking I was camping the hatch. It's kind of silly.
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@adaw0ng said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3614652#Comment_3614652
And it can repeat itself in the future if they don't fix the problem at its source. Will make designing future killer powers (and perks) such a tedious and scary task since they could feel history could repeat itself. What they are going to implement is the best thing they could do, just give your feedback for tweaks and changes once it's out. We don't even know what it actually is going to be and people are already so catastrophic about it just like they were with the anti camping mechanic which turned out to be barely effective anyways.
I'm cautiously optimistic considering how decent the anti-facecamp ended up being in regards to not interrupting normal gameplay. However, one thing that does worry me is just how dependent many m1 killers are on being able to protect a 3 gen due to a lack of mobility to get around the map quicker. For example, if I'm playing Xeno, I don't feel like I need to try to protect a 3 gen - I can branch out since I can get around the map fine. However, on someone like Ghost Face or Myers, running off away from the 3 gen is practically a death sentence for your match. That being said, my biggest concern is that their 3 gen "solution" will make weak killers even weaker while not really affecting the stronger killers or killers with mobility - which is something BHVR has a terrible habit of doing (such as MFT).
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@adaw0ng said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3614353#Comment_3614353
I would love to see you breaking those 3 gens in some maps that spawn even closer that in that one famous video of the Skull Merchant holding the best team in the world for 50 minutes. I am so sure you would have done all gens in a timely manner since you seem to be that good (even in solo Q I would assume by how confident you are) and not recognise an issue with a lot of RNGs for gen spawns + how certain perks (current and future ones that would come) alongside killer powers (same. Current and future. And past in the case of old Skull Merchant). Some 3 gen spawns are as perturbing as some tiles/pallet spawns. If ones are looked into, it’s fair the others are too. Saying it’s on survivor’s fault to not be able to break a pre-set 3 gen without taking into account what RNG are we talking about is like blaming an m1 killer for not being able to get more than one kill on The Game map. So unserious and oblivious take.
So short sighted to not even think of how leaving the game as is in regards of 3gen’s situation limits the creativity for future perks and future killer powers, but whatever floats your boat!
I already said skull merchant was the exception. That's a specific killer issue.
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@CorvusCorax86 said:
It was nice that the team gathered there and you appreciated it and didn't punish 3 ppl.
If someone sabotages their team like that early, they all definitely get a pass from me. BP farming party. I'm not out to make for a miserable experience for anyone.
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@adaw0ng said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3614139#Comment_3614139
I am very glad this game is not in your hands.
I'm just saying, if the survivors 3 gunned themselves and can't break it, the match is over. Instead of a deadlock for an hour, the match should be forced to a close to everyone can move on to the next match. The survivors were unable to complete all the gens in a timely manner.
@adaw0ng said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3614230#Comment_3614230
The maps are already getting ready for that anti 3-gen mechanic to be implemented regardless of what it is and how it will work. Have you not seen 3 gens literally 10 steps away from each other in Garden of Joy now? ARP can literally spawn 5 gens in one side now. All reworked maps are (rightfully) being tweaked in size to make it easier for killers to find survivors, chase and so on. Now that the size of the maps is being reduced, gens are logically going to be closer to each other, so the 3 gen strat is insanely strong with little to no effort.
It's absolutely fair now that they will tweak how 3 gens will work from now on, especially to not repeat history with future killers that could cause the issues Knight and Skull Merchant caused even though they are no the only ones who excell at this strat, perks are the main problem over any killer power, but this will also make future perks more flexible in design since they won't make games literally impossible to progress. Hit and run and 3genning are playtyles that go hand by hand, and is too rewarding for how easy it is, now it's time to change to another meta with the anti 3-gen mechanic, future mangled and sloppy nerfs, STBFL nerfs and maps being adjusted to make them easier for killers to navigate on them. I thought the whole point of MFT being nerfed also is so killers would chase more now, well... Now it's time to train that!
Yes I have seen gens close to each other. That's why as a survivor, I always immediately run to the center area and begin focusing on those. I disregard edge gens every time. It's not that difficult to break a 3 gen early. The only killer I've ever had an issue with doing this strat against was original skull merchant. It's up to survivors to prevent endgame 3 gens. The killer can't chase everyone at once. Even if they camp it, the moment the killer chases someone off of a center gen, another survivor should be following up with repairs while the killer is chasing off the other.
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@Dream_Whisper said:
I would Rework them entirely and make them reject the Map you are going to in the rooster. If you hate the Game, just burn the Gideon offering; all the Survivors dislike leory or killer sided map, burn those Offerings.
Increase the odds to go there, instead of 100% for one side or one survivor for the whole team; is 100% giving themselves a advantage for their build.
Definitely should be changed to a map ban, and each side can ban. If survivors bring multiple ban offerings, the entity chooses one of them (to prevent survivors from getting 4 map bans vs the killer's 1).
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So if the survivors fail to do their objective, punish the killer and make it easier to do the objective for the survivors?
If the 3 gen lasts for an extended period of time, it should just consider that the survivors have lost and kick in an endgame collapse where they must finish the last gen before the timer ends.
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I see cheaters all the time. It's pretty ridiculous. They aren't all flying around, at least. Usually it's stuff like extra health states, extra hook states, slightly faster run speeds, etc...
I even had one where they wouldn't have the glow effect that makes them easier to see when you're stalking as the ghost face. That's an incredibly odd and situational cheat. I had it on video, and I ended up getting the "confirmation" that they took action against them, at least.
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Considering the game is supposed to be a casual game with your friends, I'd rather they just have some new player protection mmr-wise, but beyond that, eliminate mmr. Leave it up to the entity. Not every match needs to be sweat. Give some medium ones. Give some surprising challenging ones. Give some laid back ones. Let people just casually enjoy the game without having to worry about bringing meta builds every match just to stay afloat.
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@ratcoffee said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3612324#Comment_3612324
according to the wiki anything other than a survivor escape counts as a kill for MMR
Good to know! Thanks.
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It causes the killer to get jostled around more. When killers carry survivors and struggle, they kind of walk with a drunk effect. Great skill checks increase this effect. It doesn't not increase your wiggle progress.
If it's at 99%, then it wasn't at 100%, so you don't wiggle out.
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@baharuto48 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3612241#Comment_3612241
That's why killer players AFK on weekday mornings. I see them. And when the killer is AFK and all we do is run and do gens, I just let the timer run out and get sacrificed because I'm not messing with my stuff if the killer player is just going AFK to have easier matches later in the week so they can just destroy noobs. And I wish everybody that played against an AFK killer player would just stay in the match and get sacrificed so that killer player got a 4K and defeated the purpose of AFK to derank. But that is a different thread.
Hmm, I'm not sure if an entity kill counts as a kill for the killer for the purposes of MMR. Now I'm curious!
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Fairly black and white. The devs stated each survivor has their own win condition. That means if a survivor escapes, they got a personal win.
For killers, BHVR has not mentioned, but the community has widely accepted that 0-1k is a loss, 2k is a "draw" (though there is no draw since you cant draw vs 4 individual players with their own win condition, so this is essentially a loss), and 3k+ is a win.
Bear in mind, MMR adjustments don't necessarily reflect winning or losing. You can lose and still not go down in mmr, for example.
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Survivors are the power role these days. They get so many second chances and so much ability to extend chases - it's ridiculously easy against m1 killers. As long as you are half decent at looping, m1 killers don't stand a chance.
I mean, look at this. The match just began like 2 minutes ago. First hook and 4 gens are completed.
1600 hours of DBD experience, btw. It's so easy these days that I'm even running diversion as a joke perk.
https://youtu.be/rvA4deFYqJM?si=NkH2IhZFru3LAnza -
@GeneralV said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3609510#Comment_3609510
Sadly few people actually use the forums. Not the best reputation you know? I understand that they don't want to use the forum for something like that.
Well... the Forums are the official channel connecting us to the devs.
Feedback from here definitely should take priority over other lines of communication.
The problem is feedback is ignored here, as well. We had numerous people tell them that MFT was a problem during the PTB. All of it was disregarded and went live as is and then stayed a problem for half a year until they went, "Waaaait a minute....MFT is a problem...who knew!?!?" And fixed it.
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Protecting hooks is literally a killer objective. The feature isn't supposed to give you risk free saves. The devs literally have said countless times that proxy camping is an intended and expected tactic to be used by killers. Face camping was the problem, and that was addressed.
Now ranged killers are still a problem, but that's a ranged killer issue, not an anti face camping issue.
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@LordGlint said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3609706#Comment_3609706
Would be nice if the loading screen was like Warframe's where you can see everyone's loading progress.
Rap tap tap, mother space trucker.
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@LordGlint said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3609349#Comment_3609349
Could also mean your playing with different people who play on different hardware. No matter how fast YOUR stuff is, you aren't gonna start before the teammate playing on a Switch.
True, but I'm saying my personal loading bar loads in 5-10 seconds unless I move the focus to something else, then it takes up to 45 seconds. Bear in mind, that's my PERSONAL loading bar. Once it's full, you still have to wait for others to load, of course.
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I discovered an issue on pc for loading. If the map is loading and you focus out of the game (like checking on discord/youtube or something), the load times becomes a LOT longer. What usually takes 10 seconds I've seen take up to 45 seconds. Its possible that long map loading times might be caused by other players dropping focus from the game while they wait for it to load.
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@nora_the_explora said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3608421#Comment_3608421
Ah yes the old high mmr argument. Since mmr for survivors is based on escape , its pretty easy for survivors that don't know how to loop to get high mmr.First of all MMR dosn't work as it should be the majority of the time. Most swf squads are bad as solo q people aswell and if a killer keeps camping instead of learning how to chase they will never get better at it , so it might seems that survivors know how to loop when in reality they are just dropping pallets non stop. when i play survivor My killers have 2/3/4 k hours in game 80 percent of my matches and my teammates are absolute potatoes getting downed in not even 15 seconds, the 50 hours meg that somehow managed to get a medium high mmr by just crouching and opening the gates as soon as the gens are completed or the 100 hours dwight that just managed to go against a good killer just because MMR doesn't really work as intended. Somehow i see a lot of killers on this forum believing the all are top tier 1 percent mmr and actually beliving that the mmr system works perfectly. As i said, u can camp and tunnel as you like, u play as u like, but let's be real once in a while, tunneling and camping at 5 gens it' s not necessary most of the times, its just a guarantee win, it's an easy strategy and STREAMERS promote the playstyle making you think that's the only way u can win the game, that's why people do it, not because that's THE ONLY thing u can do.
I said we aren't discussing gameplay at a new player level in here. We are focusing on mid+.
I also personally never camp unless EGC, and I only tunnel if it's a toxic player needing a quick exit. You're projecting in an attempt to make an argument which is weakening the point you're attempting to make since no one takes a projector seriously.
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@Gastongard said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3604292#Comment_3604292
"territorial killer", you mean proxy camper. Is it that hard to go and play the game instead of being sitted next to a hooked person like an statue? Isnt that boring? Honest question. Please, I will wait for an honest answer.
Is castling in Chess boring? Moving your Monopoly piece around the board boring? May just as well ask these questions while you're on the topic of questioning if normal intended gameplay elements are boring. Protecting hooks are literally one of the killer's objectives. It's just the facecamping that started to become a problem.
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You'll need to contact BHVR support for this.
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@nora_the_explora said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3607355#Comment_3607355
What game have u been playing? This is simply wrong, most survivors don't know how to loop and perks like made for this and dh have already been nerfed, so no, survivors are not getting stronger at looping. If it takes you 90 seconds to catch a survivor (and on top of that u are letting suvivors spread on gens ) then you are probably doing something wrong at chasing and can't recognise when to leave a chase and go pressure gens. Also some maps have changed and are becoming smaller with a lot of unsafe pallets. We can argue about the gens speed, some matches they go very fast depending on surv builds rng and the map in general, but trust me at least 80 percent of people don't know how to loop even against m1 killers. And if u are talking about adrenaline as a second chance it's only active in end game so it does't really count in what you are saying cause all the gens have been done already. Killers just camp cause it's effective and theres a lot of streamers promoting this tactic at 5 gens, let's be real, I mean, u can camp how much u want but let's not find absurd excuses for it
None of us are talking about low mmr where survivors are new.
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@SirXenomorph said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3607793#Comment_3607793
Okay than I apologize for my words. It just sounded like you try to defend such playstyle because you play like that. So it is my fault that I get it wrong.
It still was an answer from me. It also is not kind of you to somehow make assumption of my attitude. I just answered too. I also see where you think I have an attitude, but if you say you do not do it that is all good. Why be upset? I just thought you defend it. But I was wrong. I admit that. I have to think that not all who defend it are like that.
Thank you to made me see my mistake here. There rest I said still is a decent argument which has nothing to do with you
This typically is how I handle killer. In regards to playing nice or not. You tell me.
https://youtu.be/aU9_G7vlDTA?si=uv2OCEElRPcE3QJA -
Hex perks are terrible - that's why no one uses them. It's entirely RNG. Most of the time they get cleansed within the first minute of the match. They just aren't worth it. You get very little reward for a lot of risk, then you're out a perk for the rest of the match. Just an awful design...of course no one is going to use them. They would be more viable if they would only appear visible occasionally like face the darkness (though that appears only when it's active).
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@SirXenomorph said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3607355#Comment_3607355
There is a reason why camping on a hooked lead to an update to prevent that. So if you say oh yea so we just camp in another way now, cause it is more effective means, you will give enough reason to the devs to maybe someday do much more updates to prevent killers from these kind of behaviour. So it is just downright a bad thing. And sure you can do it. Feel free too. But that show me, that you are just rely on that cause it is not possible for you to play without it.
I do know that killers which are good at loop breaking are in an advantage, but I also play killers which are not good at it and do manage to get it done without that. SO NO IT IS NOT EFFECTIVE. It is just an excuse you made. Sry to say that and sure you can have that opinion. That is what a free will give you. But I do not agree with your opinion on that, cause I have first hand prove that it is nowhere effective.
Cause think it just through yeah just imagine 3 Gens are already gone and you gonna sweat cause you did not get one sacrificed or even on the hook. So you decide to slug and camp or hook and camp a survivor. All the others see that you camp. And only the really altruistic survivors will come help. So effectively you as a camper change the playstyle of the survivors to just do not care about the one that is hooked, cause you camp there. Not yet but it will be like that if all of these camper killers do not stop that already. The survivors just decide to let him hang till they have done the other Gens. You are not effective you are the exact opposite. Cause all the time you waste for camping is a lost hunt a lost hit a lost survivor you might could get. And not only that the 2 Gens left would been rushed too. That is not effective in my eyes.
Did someone piss in your cheerios or something? Why the crusade on me? I don't tunnel people unless they are toxic, I never camp unless necessary in endgame collapse, and I'm the killer who almost always gives hatch, and if the survivors had an early dc, just let them have a heal party and escape. Grow up, dude. I was just answering the question as to why it's happening from killers as a whole. This topic had zero to do about me as a topic. Go take your attitude elsewhere.
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Survivors are getting more and more powerful in chases and looping along with multiple second chance perks. Many killers, especially m1 killers, are already weak at loops as it is. Doing chases usually ends up meaning losing 2 or 3 gens. Camping is starting to become the only real effective strategy.
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@lav3 said:
I've never seen single killer facecamping survivor after patch.
Neither have I. I'd say it was a resounding success of a feature.
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I personally love it when a killer uses it. I always run distortion, so once it triggers on me, they only know where I was in that moment in time. I just GTFO. Killer wastes so much time running to where I was looking everywhere. Lots of risk free gen time for the other survivors.
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@Archol123 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3606875#Comment_3606875
By what definition does the perk not get value then? It still delays the game? Not as effective, but it does, it let's the killer know about the decoy giving him the option to take care of, therefore prolonging the objective... Sure if you are trying to hold a 3 Gen the perk won't do much for you, but otherwise it gives you info about that 99 Gen perhaps being able to apply pop if it is not too far out of the way... But if you want to 3 Gen you are not running those perks anyway... You would run other perks if that is your goal from the start. So if you are not aiming for a 3 Gen you will get reduced value but still something... What I would have accepted as a counter for deadlock btw is just stacking on gens... Because then it just locks one random Gen and you can go for the next one, sure reduced efficiency potential to have all 3 survivors clumped up and what not but since in your scenario we have a coordinated team anyway I don't see much of an issue with leading the killer away and having a designated chaser and what not.
We can't really simplify it more than we already have. The value of deadlock/PR never affecting any gens that are risky to repair is huge.
If deadlock affects a gen no one is repairing, it literally has zero effect against the survivors.
If PR hits a generator, that damage dealt must be repaired on some gen somewhere. However, survivors have the power that it's forced onto a low to no risk generator so it's not remotely a problem.
Killer perks bring in risks to survivors. Using a decoy gen for those perks completely eliminates that risk turning the perks entirely moot.
The decoy gen would need to get repaired regardless to end the match, so spending time repairing it isn't any time loss - it's 100% time towards the objective.
Imagine playing killer on Ormand, and none of your perks ever affect the center gen in the ski resort. It keeps affecting a gen waaaaaaaaaaaay on the corner that if you ever head that direction, you're guaranteed to lose the center gen if not 2 gens in the process. You're getting your ass handed to you.
If you don't get this basic concept at this point, I don't think you ever will without just trying it yourself with an swf (I recommend swf to prevent a solo queue from ruining the plan).
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@Ayodam said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3606871#Comment_3606871
IIRC, at least one dev (Peanits?) stated the killer is essentially playing a (1v1v1v1) v 1. Each kill counts as a win for that individual game the killer is playing and a loss for that particular survivor.
If the killer got only 1 kill, he definitely didn't win, lol. He also goes down in MMR in the process...though MMR doesn't necessarily have any correlation to wins or losses. It would be a disaster on balance if the devs were actually declaring a single survivor kill is a win. He'd need a 12.5% kill rate to give the killer a 50% win rate. Pretty much every game would be a killer win with their expected 60% kill rate, and it would be terrible balancing around the expectation to kill 1 survivor only half the time. Consider now, every time you play killer, if 3 survivors kept escaping every match, if BHVR said "but you won!", you'd tell them to go kick rocks. Would be very unsatisfying to play killer this way, not to mention tunneling would be even more powerful if all they had to do was tunnel one person out at the beginning and they "win". There's a reason why pretty much everyone agrees that a 3k is a killer win. They get the majority of the survivors sacrificed. Competitions also don't consider a single kill a killer win. More than likely, the dev who said that was just trying to make someone feel better about someone going through a string of losses. Doing anything BUT tunneling someone out would be shooting yourself in the foot. Playing more "fair" and spreading hooks out more would simply encourage losing. BHVR has been trying to protect people from getting tunneled out with basekit borrowed time and off the record. Claiming that singling someone out and eliminating them to lock in a win for the match would be entirely counter-intuitive to their work to prevent tunneling.