Rickprado
Rickprado
About
- Username
- Rickprado
- Joined
- Visits
- 3,111
- Last Active
Comments
-
@MoZo said:
Happy because the devs replaced the S tier map offerings with a new S tier offering being the shroud of separation. Words cannot express how insane of an advantage this offering gives survivors AND its secret too.
Fortunately people are sleeping on this offering. Hope the devs rework the spawn offerings in a near future.
-
I am happy that as a killer i can't be sent with 100% chance to Eerye, RPD or Garden of Joy.
As survivor i'm also happy that i'm not going to Midwich against Nurse, Trapper, Skull Merchant and Hag because the killer burnt an offering.
Changing map offering were one of the healthiest updates this game ever had. Maybe the devs could change map offering into map ban offerings - you won't be going for that realm if you burn the offering - to give some better usage to map offerings.
Anyway, a BIG FAT W for the game the maps offerings change.
-
@oecrophy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/456128/lets-share-our-kill-rate-stats
for what do u need numbers?
We have a top tier Nurse main here :o
I've played so much the Knight in 2023 that he is my most played killer to this day.
And these two are my other mains:
-
These changes are probably coming to the game anytime soon. They just didn't want to implement it the way it is because numerical changes wouldn't be enough to fix it.
Also, i do believe that SoloQ needs more better matchmaking and info perks as basekit than an antislug and anti-tunnel system. You can still have a dogshit experience if your teammates are potatoes or you don't have any info on what your teammates are doing and the perks they have.
-
@Foggyguy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3996082#Comment_3996082
Good thing we currently have a mass surplus of killers and we can probably lose the toxic ones without any issue. Also… I don't see how lowering a killers mmr when they are playing a new killer is a bad thing but you do you.
Now you are just twisting my words to get yourself an argument LOL i've never said that playing a newer killer in a lower MMR is bad, its just that MMR doesn't exist at all.
Anyway, this discussion with you is pure waste of time. Lets see how things will play out after the PTB.
-
@Foggyguy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3996035#Comment_3996035
Um, hate to break it to you but the devs solved that issue like years ago. Each killer has their own MMR that's why you can't change killers in lobby. So if you are just starting a brand new killer you aren't going to be getting high MMR games you are getting low MMR. Not trying to be rude here but do you have anything left?
Not its not. Many people datamined MMR and its not simple as its looks. There is a common medium MMR for every killer and its scales a little bit up and down depending on your current. If a experienced killer starts to play with Kraasue at her release he probably will face experienced survivors because the medium MMR is above the soft cap.
Also, you are forgetting that the more imbalanced the queues are, the worse the matching MMR will be. If there is a ton of survivors and not enough killers (or vice versa) the game will expand your MMR to be matched with anyone available. The devs itself already state that when they were experimenting with MMR.
Seriously, defending the current MMR system is borderline madness.
Do you have anything else to say?
-
@Dokta_Carter said:
Was told I was tunneling, but according to the system I wasn't, according to my hooks I wasn't, so im just curious.
According to the player base, tunneling is going after the last hooked survivor with the intention of putting them back on the hook/removing them from the game no?
IIm Just so confused? Not angry or upset just... wha?
There is a lot on controversy around what is tunneling and what is not.
The most extreme form of tunneling is hard tunneling when a killer goes for person, and only one person, until they are out of the game.
There is "soft/tactical tunneling" that is when the killer goes between two and three survivors but tries to take someone out early as possible.
There is a video of Otzdarva discussing this issue:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yd2X-LwrwcU -
@MostBestPlayer said:
Try playing her in Gideon Meat Plant, you cant reliably search because your dog pointer fixes on floors sometimes. So when you want to search lower floor it searches upper.
And there were times where i just did a basic attack trying to make my dog search.
It is such a bad time playing her, i can't enjoy this killer. Jesus christ man.I love her but since the Walking Dead chapter she has been more buggy than ever. There is a very serious bug where she gets at 3.68m/s for a while (even while walking through the search path).
She needs some QoL and bug fixes asap.
-
@Foggyguy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3995976#Comment_3995976
Bringing up the fact survivors have to master counterplay to 40 killers and killer only has to be decent at one is not exactly the best counterargument you could come up with. In fact I think you just strengthened my argument. Do you have anything else?
As killer players wouldn't have to master the killers themselves in differents levels of skill, for EVERY KILLER he wants to play too LOL. Killer can be "easier" at very low MMR but when people get a grasp on the game mechanics and basic its completly the other way around: its much harder to keep pressure as killer than its as survivor.
I'm just making it clear that the killrates you've brought came more from lack of tutorials and will to learn counterplay against certain characters rather than due to a "killer powercreep" or "handholding".
-
@Foggyguy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3995851#Comment_3995851
So everything you've said is 100% wrong. We've seen for several years the devs buffing killers constantly to the point they outright state their goal is to handhold the killers into a 60% kill rate. Despite all the massive buffs killers have gotten we still constantly see tunneling and sweatlord killers. The games literally can't become more of a slog.
Killer """massive""" killrates come from bad MMR and lack of knowledge from survivors against certain killers. Or you would say that Sadako is stronger than Nurse and Blight? Vecna - before the buffs - was the strongest killer in the game?
Truste me, it will become more of a slog in the patch goes like this. A part of the playerbase - the most casual - will just quit playing killer with time; other will move to the strongest killers, many trying to just power through the penalties with Blight and Nurse or going with the most meta build the can go.
-
@Rivyn said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3995764#Comment_3995764
You aren't playing to win. And that's the difference here. If you are playing casual, then this change means little. If you're playing with a competitive mindset, then the killer player's checklist just became much longer.
You've Pointed out something important here: people want killers to play with a more casual mindset (just going for any chases and hooks instead of thinking more strategically) while survivors can play more competitive with the intention to escape, don't matter the cost.
With time, the effect might be the contrary this people expect: players will just give up on low tier killers and start going for S or A+ tiers trying their hardest to win. Matches will probably be a much greater slog than they are today.
-
@Scarlett1111 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3995819#Comment_3995819
If the game is arbitrarily ended for someone before even the halfway point it is an awful mechanic. Full stop. There is no "fun" there. Which by the way, is what matters in a game. Not competitive integrity, especially not in a damn party game. There is absolutely no skill is going back to unhook, waiting 10 seconds, and downing someone again and killing them at 4 gens to make the killers time easier in a 3v1. Nothing about that is skillful in the slightest.
Sorry, but it is not "arbitrarily ended". You need to down a survivor before you can hook him/her. To tunnel someone out you need to win at least one chase after every unhooking. Unless the killer is proxy camping you will have sometime to move to a stronger loop than where you were rescued and do something; and even in this scenarios there is things you can do if your teammates help you. And we are not even considering the existance of the anti-tunnel perks, which haven't received any nerfs in this patch.
Also, unless its a cracked player with a very strong killer, like Blight, Nurse, Ghoul, Dracula, etc. i don't mind being tunneled if my teammates are doing gens, since someone - most of the time the other 3 teammates - is bound to escape if the killer does this.
EDIT: fun is quite controversial in this game. There are people who have fun doing winstreak in a 4 man squads with everything they can get; some like to be a top tier Ghoul/Blight/Nurse slugging at 5 gens trying to win as fast as possible. Other like to run funny builds and get value from them; etc etc.
Also, this has not been a "party game" for a long time. People have optmizing their strategies and gameplay for a long time that the initial imersion of the game is far gone from the early days of DBD when it could be called a "party game".
-
@Scarlett1111 said:
They are good for the average killer. Because "average" killer isn't going to attempt to win every single game and get a 90% winrate. Don't understand why you might think that tunneling is even okay for the game when that is the kind of statistic it can put into rotation.
If we are talking about hard tunneling - hooking the same person until they are out of the game - not, i don't think its okay. But if we are talking about TRYING to get someone out of the game before all gen pops - because its the normal course of the game - i don't see any issue with this, even when it happens with me.
We as community really should discuss what we think is "tunneling" and what kind of "tunneling" is overall harmful to the game.
-
@Barbarossa2020 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3995445#Comment_3995445
it's also used heavily in comps, because they know how powerful a full team of pro survs can be.
Its funny how many on this forum says that "only bad killer players tunnel" when the most experienced players - comp and not comp - tunnel heavily when they want to tryhard. Knightlight would be a bad player just because he chooses to tunnel a survivor in the early game? LOL I've went against many respected killer players in my region and they don't mind taking someone out of the game if they can.
A good killer player knows that leaving every survivor alive makes the match much harder than they need to be. I am sure that one of the best and most important killer knowledge in this game is knowing when, how and who to focus
Anyway I'm playing the PTB and survivor is easier than ever. Lets see what the devs are going to do with this patch before the live release.
-
@vol4r said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3995500#Comment_3995500
You can turn it off in custom matches.
Killer won't feel miserable.
You can't turn it of normal matches. Casual killer will feel miserable against mediocre to good players.
Its not just "comp" people that are concerned about those changes. People with more hours or more experienced killers that go against coordinated survivors will struggle now that you are forced to artificially extend the match by alternating hooks before you can get a kill.
Really, what makes survivor miserable is the MMR and SoloQ issues, not "tunneling/slugging/camping". There will be still miserable matches because of how SoloQ works - like i myself experienced in this PTB where i went to struggle because people left me in the hook knowing that the killer would not come after me because it wasn't the 6th already.
This will only provide a buff to those who do not needed it or will mascarade more deeper issues this game has.
-
@cogsturning said:
I'd rather have a teammate who can do gens, unhook, heal, and take chase than a 25% bonus.
Me too. And how do we get that? Surviving against the killer by going to strong loops, making a smart usage of resources and having good teamwork.
-
@Aven_Fallen said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3994201#Comment_3994201
Is there any issue with winning a Game with "only" 1 or 2 Gens remaining? To me this sounds like a good game, but the way you describe it it sounds like it is a bad thing.
Its not about "winning" the game with only 1 or 2 gens remaining, but that a good part of the match itself can happen after someone dies with 1 or 2 gens, because sacrificing one survivor is still part of the gameplay. This 6 hooks punishment can affect normal gameplay rather than a "tunneling" scenario.
Having a big boost to the other side just because you did part of your objeticve doesn't seem fine to me.
-
@Aven_Fallen said:
Easy solution is to not tunnel. You even get a Bonus to Regression when kicking after hooking unique Survivors.
I don't know why people on this forum thinks that most of the matches people get sacrificed at 5/4 gens when its usually around the last 2 to 1 gen they go - unless they are really bad, its a S tier killer or the survivors are just trolling.
You do know that in harder matches they are disputed around the last 2 or even the last 1 gen, right? Even if you are the best comp Nurse with 30k hours in DBD you will still be prone to lose one or two gens on the first chase. Now if you kill someone with 5 hooks - you can do that reasonably without tunneling - you will have a much harder endgame. Or you just artificially let people live, so there still be 3 people on gens on the hardest time of the match.
Thank god its a PTB and people will this how this will be.
-
@THE_Crazy_Hyena said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3994036#Comment_3994036
Now when i play solo…. well, its MMR hell.
… people who just farm you in front of the killer and leave you to your own luckI wonder if the anti-tunnel got implemented because of situations like these, where the incentive lies in ignoring you (being the unhooked), and instead going for the "genuis" who unhooked you right in front of the killer's face.
I think part of the implementation goes to this. The problem will be that the "genius" will be rewarded even more now if the killer goes for you, since now the rescuer will have a bonus speed on gens or even perma anti-gen regression for the whole match. SoloQ will be hell even more since people will play worse now that you "cannot" be tunneled.
-
@cogsturning said:
If survivors is easy and killer is super-hard-impossible-nerfed-into-the-ground, tell me why I draw or win as killer with minimal effort (no regression perks in these matches btw) but die as survivor with all these supposed advantages PLUS the supposedly unstoppable SWF.
Sorry but this must be most on yourself. I play survivor with friends and when we are not up to trolling - like when i go with Chest builds, or my friends run tenacity to be a "super slug" build - we get 2 to 3 man in many of our the matches. We've made a couple of killers DCs sometime ago because we were popping 2 to 3 gens on the first chase. And some of my friends just refuse to run meta perks because they think it just kills the fun - what i disagree, but they are free to run whatever they want. See, we are a bunch of casuals and we don't feel oppressed by "bad tunneling and sluggers". We just play the game.
Now when i play solo…. well, its MMR hell. It can be anything: people trying to take hits right in front of a hook with 0% wiggle progress, some forcing DS against strong killers like Blight, Spirit or Kaneki; people hiding because of killer TR; people who just farm you in front of the killer and leave you to your own luck. Or the other way around, like some god tier randoms that hold the killer for 2 to 3 gens (even more if the killer commit to the fullest); organized bodyblocks and etc.
My point here is that survivor relies more on having 4 good and solid survivor players than anything else. If you get a single weak link it will be a hard match. Should the killer be punished for that? I don't think so. I really would like that they give more info tools for SoloQ than just force killers to play worse.
-
@Nazzzak said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3993713#Comment_3993713
"i believe will be a common experience being left into the ground for 90s while the randoms do gens"
I think once they realize leaving a person slugged for the equivalent of an entire gen is what keeps costing them the game, they'll stop doing it. There's nothing efficient about that lol
You are overestimating randoms. How many time you've got to the second stage because someone was doing any other things than rescuing? Or just got out of the hook in front of the killer? Or saw someone dropping a god pallet and going down 10s after?
-
Complete objectivity, especially when discussing experiences, is something quite problematic from a philosophical point of view. But i don't think this type of discussion fits this forums.
Anyway, i think the discussions that we are having in this forum is quite productive for the game. Even if nothing comes to live the devs can see what the many parts of the community thinks about all of this changes.
My only concern is that most of these changes - in my opinion - don't make the survivor gameplay experience better, in particular at SoloQ. It just push people to sweating: lower tier killers will be in the worse state than they ever been, specially when we consider that part of these basekit buffs can be used aggressively without too much consequences; medium SWF and experienced survivor players will have a very good advantage over the killer, now that they are forced to swap hooks between the whole survivors;
One thing that i also want to point it out is that these changes HEAVILY disincentivize survivors too cooperate: i believe will be a common experience being left into the ground for 90s while the randoms do gens, or the in worst case, totems and chest or even heal with self-care since now they will take for granted that sometime you will be able to pick up yourself; or just being farmed in front of the killer because they believe the killer won't go after you. These changes rewards playing badly, and that why it raises concerns from a great part of community.
-
I would like to see every form of regression buffed when you are spreding hooks. Kicking gens is kinda boring so i'm more used to play with Pain Ress and Jolt lately. I don't want to start kicking gens just to not waste a buff that compensates for a harsh nerf on a game style.
-
Lets see how things will play out after the PTB but i wish they buff regression as a whole when you are alternating hooks instead of only a gen kick buff.
-
@Destaice said:
The game is designed around and balanced around the fact that survivors cannot communicate with each other.
So I don't think it's fair to criticize survivors for losing when they cannot read minds.
Its not reading minds, its just basic game sense. Because if you know the best strategy in that situation, most of the times the best players will play around that.
It like "choosing" who will go for a unhook in SoloQ: its a common knowledge that the person with less hooks and working in the gen with the smaller amount of progress - or closer to the hook - should go to the save. If you are on death hook you should avoid being chase by the killer at all costs, so going for a save in that situation will have destroy the match for your teammates.
Coordination doesn't require comms, but get easier with more information available.
@UnicornMedal said:
It's a "cake and eat it" situation.
You can't have a spooky game of hide and go seek that's also a comp game of tag any more than you can have a game with fractured teamwork where you're all meant to be a solid unit. There are many ways to bridge that gap. Better matchmaking is a major one. Adding comms to the game is another that would have a big impact. But if those are off the table, you do have to ease up on Survivor or else that solo vs SWF gap only grows larger, despite the kill rates.
As i've said above, coordination doesn't require comms. If perk like Bond, Better Together and specially Kindred were basekit and any other changes that give info on what your teammates are doing SoloQ would be so much better since you would play properly on the information you have. Also, 4 solid SoloQ players are good enough to go against most of the killers in the game. Survivors should have better matchmaking and more info instead of these changes. But lets see how things will play out.
-
@stikyard said:
I am mostly a Survivor player, Solo.
I believe that the general mindset for Killer mains is 4K or bust. 2k and 3k is considered a loss. This never should have been the consistent obtainable goal as Killer with 2k and 3k being average or normal. 4k should have been rare and not easy to achieve but 4k-ing has been common. I would say well over half of my games end in 4k. Some of them aren't even close with 4 gens still in play. Killers adapted the slow-down and tunnel strategy because it worked and they got 4k's. Never mind it perpetuated all of the worst parts of the game, doing gens or the poor soul who is getting tunneled out first.
I believe the upcoming changes are somewhat needed as a casual solo player but I can understand how the balance could shift at high MMR with survivor squads. I'm just not sold that is a majority of play.
All that said, I can see that Killer mains will not take kindly to the changes and I highly doubt all the changes will make it to the actual game as originally posted. I would like to see it improve game health but only consistent 4k's will appease the die hard Killer. The mindset is 4k or bust. Anything less is unacceptable.
My play rates changes from time to time, but when i was playing recently - before the Walking Dead Chapter - i was playing like 40% on survivor and 60% killer. And i would say that i don't mind not getting a 4k; depending on the match, even a 2k or even a 1k was fine. The issue is how much effort and attention i need to put in a match to get a decent result.
There is a current mindset on our community, from killer to survivor players, that if the killer don't get a 4k its a loss. I've received trash talking even when i did 10 hooks and got 2 man out - TBF, these are the most common scenarios where i get trash talked.
My current issue with the future update - which will still go through PTB and other stuff, so we need to wait and see - is two things:
- Playing killer will get far more stressfull than it is today because you will need to go out of your way to spread hooks before taking people out of the match. Going for a hard tunnel is one of the worst decision in the game with the current survivor meta, with perks like Decisive Strike, Off the Record, Dead Hard, Made for This, Unbrekable, Babysitter, Shoulder the Burden turning this into an almost impossible task. But if you accidentally get into a situation where you could take someone out early without hard tunneling because THEY missplayed, you might take a very harsh punishment. So you will need to go out of your way to give this survivor a second chance while you try to down another people, making the game much harder for killers
- Survivors will have even less incentive to get better at macro strategies, focusing on their sole survival. If this patch go live, you will see how much people will just save you right in front of the killers, let you slugged for 90s - because you will get up anytime soon - and just do gens and go for exit gates. People who play bad will get higher on MMR not because they are getting better, but because they have basekit mechanics that do part of the job for them. Them they will start to face top tier Blight, Nurses and Billys, don't realize why their matches are going the way they are and still getting frustated. Trust me, i play a lot of SoloQ survivor and most of the time i see that my teammates don't know basic macroplay logic, like farming someone right of the hook when the killers is actively tunneling the person and not even trying to bodyblock or aggro the killer.
-
@crogers271 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/455012/dbd-is-a-one-vs-four-game
And sure there are a few killers who desperately need buffs or a rework.I think this is an important point.
Any large game change is going to affect killers differently and inevitably there will be some killers who will slight to moderate drops in their kill rates. Those should be addressed.
But people seem to be acting like C/D tier killers are going to have a 7% kill rate after the patch.
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3991551#Comment_3991551
The best survivors know how to counter tunneling and slugging properly without the need of these changes, just with teamplay.Great news then, killers are getting buffs when they are not tunneling.
Against good survivors you won't have time to spread hooks on the whole team, you will need to focus on 2 or 3 people to get a kill before the gens are done otherwise its a loss, most of the time.You don't have to spread hooks to the whole team. Even going to 2/3 on the hooks will give you a 3v1 and just one more hook for the 2v1 while the survivors just get a, almost certainly, a moderate gen boost.
Having the killer to play "badly" on purpose - now you NEED to spread hooks, otherwise you will lose - while survivors can play optimally will just move people to quit killer or play Nurse, Blight and Kaneki.Which is it for high MMR? Do survivors know how to deal with tunneling, or is tunneling the only way to win?
- Killer will just get the bare minimum while survivors get a lot. I wouldn't think this would be a buff, specially considering you will need to lose time kicking gens to get some value of the "buff" (lets see how this will be implemented).
- Yeah but if you kill someone with 6 hooks or least you will be punished. There will be plenty of scenarios where you could kill someone with 5 hooks without tunneling but you will need to avoid it depending on how strong the gen buff will be.
- Experienced survivors know how to play around tunneling, that's why they don't need these changes. Good survivors will know how to delay a death - or even prevent it. What doesn't mean the 4 will be forever in the match, considering the objective of the killer is to take people out of the match. I'm not advocating that hard tunneling is a good strategy - never said that, LOL -, but there will be a point in the match when people need to get out. Getting someone of the game before all gen ends is the natural course of the match. What is not natural is getting out of your way to spread hooks to avoid a penalty. If you get to the last gen with the 4 survivors alive most of the time you will lose.
-
Sorry but your argument that this game is 1v4 can be used exactly to criticize those changes: Slugging and Tunneling ( and camping) can be countered easily within the assymetrical nature of the game. The best survivors know how to counter tunneling and slugging properly without the need of these changes, just with teamplay. Although this will help survivor in the lowest of the MMR, against medium and experienced players match will become hell, specially now that playing aggressive will reward survivors even more.
On higher MMR/experience levels, survivors and killers need to play on a macro strategy - considering the whole match, not a single chase or a survivor alone - to win. If you see good survivors, even when they play solo, they always try to mind what other survivors are doing while they are being chase to plan ahead how the match needs to go. Against good survivors you won't have time to spread hooks on the whole team, you will need to focus on 2 or 3 people to get a kill before the gens are done otherwise its a loss, most of the time. Having the killer to play "badly" on purpose - now you NEED to spread hooks, otherwise you will lose - while survivors can play optimally will just move people to quit killer or play Nurse, Blight and Kaneki.
Being able to consistently force a 1v3 is inherently unbalanced and unhealthy for the game. If you aren't skilled at using your power or survivors are simply playing better, then you are supposed to lose.
Sorry, but this is not true. With the Exception of Nurse - and maybe even her - you cannot simply force a 1v3 situation, you need to WIN some chases to get to a 1v3 situation against survivors. If you got to a 1v3 situation probably a survivor lost a chase or played badly/risky, didn't have any anti-tunnel perks to get seconds chances or - the most probably - their teammates screwed rescue, healing or even getting the aggro of the killer.
Currently, i agree that survivor has a problem but this is mostly due to lack of information on SoloQ. If we could see the perks of our teammates and have some sort of basekit info (see the perk of other teammates, Kindred, etc) i think the survivor experience would be in the perfect spot.
TL;DR : These changes hurt the assymetrical nature of the game, turning the survivor experience closer to a battle royal (1v1 against the killers) than a teammate action horror experience.
-
@MDRSan said:
Killers: Matches go by too fast - why are the survivors rushing gens?
Also Killers: Why am I being punished for eliminating players from matches as quickly as humanly possible?! I want my win to happen fast!
Well, with 4 survivors alive for longer the matches will go even faster since more people on gens = sooner they are completed. Also, if no one is hooked or slugged means there is even more free time to do gens.
If its not a hard tunnel - focusing entirely in one person until he/she is out of the game - there should be no punishment for killers.
-
People will just enter in lockers before a hook, like they did before when 99% of the server used Barbecue and Chilli.
-
Well, there will be too much things to test.
But at first, i would like to say somethings:
- With the Sluggings changes, killers should have increased pickup speed and mov speed while carrying. Maybe Forever Entwined and Agitation partially basekit
- Unknown needs 1s less of cooldown on the UVX and 2 more seconds on the total duration of the weakened states. Its one of his biggest problems and what makes playing him stressfull. Unknown has less than a 3s window to injure a survivor with his UVX - considering you HAVE a chance to hit your target before he dispels the weakened. If you don't hit the UVX in this time, you need to restart it all over again, with the 7s cooldown becoming too punishing at this situation. I would suggest buffing UVX and, if Unknown turn out to be much stronger with these changes, nerf a little bit the Hallucinations and the teleport.
- There need to be some safeguard against possible abuse in the anti-tunnel system. There will be situations where you will kill a survivor fast not because you went actively for that survivor, but because the survivor it was doing gens/saving in your face or just lost the chase.
-
Hope never. Never ever.
They should just increased the odds of being sent to a new map.
-
@jesterkind said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3971205#Comment_3971205
I mean, who actually fits that definition?
Wraith, Clown, Doctor, Freddy, Dredge, and arguably Myers all do not fit this definition because while they rely on basic attacks to get hits, they do have chase powers to help them in chase, and they're all killers typically considered M1 killers in these conversations - at least, most of them are, I'm admittedly not sure how people typically classify Dredge.
It does cover Trapper at least, and I'd be reasonably confident saying it covers Sadako, but beyond that, it kinda shorts out. Hag could be thrown on the pile but that's only three killers, not nearly as many as people are usually implying.Working backwards from needing to define M1 killers in a way that highlights their weakness causes issues like this. It's just not actually all that helpful as a framing device.
Wraith, Sadako, Myers, Ghostface, Pig, Legion. These are for sure.
Plague without power and even Oni before his first hits are M1 too, although their kits compensate their lack of anti-loop in the start of the match.
Freddy/Clown/Doctor are quite complicated to say they are M1 in the same way the first ones since they have a consistent anti-loop power, even if not the strongest in the game.
When people want to address that "M1 killers struggles against x" its because the killers in the first group struggles against some situations that killers with anti-loop power struggles less, like bodyblocks, some structures or some perks and items.
-
@jesterkind said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3971059#Comment_3971059
I'm not new in the least, I just disagree with the commonly cited use of the term. I don't think it's helpful and I think we'd be on much firmer ground discussing the game if this term weren't used this way.
The fact of the matter is, people consistently use "M1 killer" as a stand-in for "weak killer", often either ignoring killers that are equally M1 focused but very good or citing killers that have a damaging M2 attack.
My point is this: If the term is going to be "M1 killer", it should be used to define something about the killer's power. If the meaning is going to be "weak killer", the term used should reflect that more accurately.Or, TL;DR, if what you mean is "weak killer" just say that. Why bother with the misleading term?
Well, then you are making a confusion. Most of the time when people say "M1 killer" they aren't meaning they are "all the weak killers", but rather they are killers who rely on basic attack to get hits without any chase power to help them. We could start saying "killers who rely on basic attack to get hits without any chase power to help them in chases" but i prefer saying M1 killers.
Again, saying Singularity, Pinhead or Spirit are M1 killers are kinda of a stretch because this term - M1 - usually refers to killers without anti-loop. If Wraith could hit survivors without uncloacking he wouldn't be an M1 killer, because his power would make him so fast that he wouldn't rely only on the 4.6m/s speed to get hits on most of the tiles.
Not all weak killers are M1 but all M1 are quite weak because of how their power works, fundamentally. Trickster is a M2, isn't strong and his problem doesn't come from being a M1 killer. Calling Trickster a M1 killer just because he is weak doesn't make sense as he has a power to get downs, even if not a strong one.
Fundamentally, "killers who rely on basic attack to get hits without any chase power to help them in chases" have a common core of issues, that why people call them M1.
-
@jesterkind said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3970971#Comment_3970971
I did address this at the end of the post. You're falling into recursive logic here - These killers are weak because they're M1 killers, and they're M1 killers because they're weak, and so on and so forth.
What you're describing is just a killer that is weak. Their powers are supposed to help them, but they struggle. They're designed to work such that their power makes getting M1s easier, but that doesn't always pan out. There's no reason to falsely invoke their power design by calling out "M1" when other killers who are M1 focused do just fine.
Genuinely, saying "these killers aren't M1 killers because their powers help them get hits" is something I just can't get behind. That should be what M1 killer means, if the definition is based on anything other than just how good the killer is. The split, if we're using the term "M1 killer", should be between killers whose damage comes from basic attacks and killers whose damage at least can come from something else.
If all you want to convey is killers who struggle to get hits at basic tiles… they're just weak. It's not because they damage with an M1, because other killers who also damage with an M1 don't struggle at these tiles.No, i'm not. They aren't weak because they are "M1 killers", they are weak because they lack anti-loop and need to play around the loops to get hit with basic attacks. That is what make them M1. And because they lack anti-loop, they struggle against experienced survivors and organized teams, specially without chase perks. Therefore, they are weak.
Sorry, but you are creating a discussion that never existed in the community as is quite clear who are M1 killers and who is not. I don't know if you are new to DBD or not but this title of "M1 Killers" come from a long time ago, where most of the roster were M1. I think that these kind of speech that "M1 killers aren't weak, look at Singularity or Spirit" doesn't help nothing in game balance or quality of life, since not having a power that deals damage is not enough to classify a killer as a M1 killer.
-
For the sake of this conversation, I define M1 killer as "A killer whose downs come exclusively from basic attacks, and whose power exists to make that easier". This also includes killers whose powers can injure but can't down, like Legion and Trapper.
When people say "M1 killers are weak" most of the time they are referring to killer that have no power to get downs quickly, like Wraith, Sadako, Ghostface, Trapper, Legion. Although some of these can use their powers to injure or try some tricks on chase, most of the time they rely on the 4.6m/s speed and basic attacks to down survivors. Pig Ambush is considered by many too counterable or weak to rely on, so she is considered a M1 killer too. Demogorgon is considered by most an M2 killer since his power have enough potential to end chases consistently.
Singularity, Pinhead, Houndmaster, Spirit ARE NOT considered M1 killers by most of the community because their powers DO HAVE some components that help them get downs, even if they injure with a basic attack. Lets take Houndmaster as example: she injures most of the time with basic attacks. But her power - the dog - can hold people enough time to get a hit. So, even if she relies on basic attacks she cannot be considered a M1 killer, as her power give enough potential to end chases quickly, deny looping, counter bodyblocks, etc. If she relied only on the 4.6m/s to hurt/down survivors, her gameplay and overall strength would be much different.
The problem with the real M1 killers is that against people who are good they have little to no chase power, making their chases longer.
Lets take the shack loop as example. Without Bamboozle, Wraith, Legion and Sadako will struggle a lot to get a down, sometimes even when the pallet is not there anymore. They need to rely more on mindgames and survivor mistakes to get downs than killers with chase powers like the Unknown, Huntress or even Vecna.
Dead Dawg Saloon is classic for this: M1 killers without Bamboozle should not commit chases at the main building or their risk lose their game without doing a single hook stage. I have seen many killers DC after committing to chases in the main build, unaware of how strong that build was against weaker killers.
Sorry but talking like Spirit and the Ghostface or Wraith are in the same situation is not fair. These M1 killers - the real ones - are in a very bad situation against experienced survivors, since they struggle to get downs. They might not change since the root of the problem is their power design, which is simple but weak. I hope at least BHVR make some perks to help them in chase and small changes to make them stronger and viable in harder matches.
-
@ThatRyanB said:
Thank you for all the responses in here, folks! There are some really good thoughts here that I can make sure are noted as feedback on our end.
Its really valuable for us when you devs tell us that you are reading feedback, specially in these kind of topics.
-
One i'm sure is the Unknown. With a little less cooldown (like 2 or 1,5s less), a little bit more of weakened duration and some very small nerfs on his teleport (to compensate his strength) he would be in the perfect spot. Direct hits with UVX should have some kind of reward, specially to discourage people to throw themselves at you. Addons could have a quick addon pass, although the only case i think that needs some attention is the Vanishing Box.
Another one which i'm not sure is the Knight. He needs more of his addons as basekit (BHVR is quite doing that, but its not enough) and some kind of chase buff whenever his guards are chasing someone, to encourage the Knight to go on chase while the guards are in the hunt. But i don't know if this would be enough to make him viable in higher MMR, as survs are getting better and better.
-
TBH, people have been quitting against any killer, like the Knight, Unknown, Houndmaster, etc. Really, if i get a down in the first 30 seconds of a match people just DC.
Its funny because since I've been facing people on winstreaks I'm getting less DC with Ghoul than with other weaker killers.
@topic They were disabled during the event. Many reports that the penalties were disabled. I don't know if they are back on but people have been quitting massively on my games.
-
@Mr_K said:
Good, let them DC. Then they cannot ruin other players matches for an increasingly amount of time.
Let them destroy other matches in other games but please don't remove DC penalty in DBD. Its almost becoming a PVE game with so many DCs.
-
TBH, i just feel that the pallet break powers are too strong, since the killer can "wi-fi" break the pallet and zone you while they are moving. If they ever recicle this for an event i hope the pallet break takes longer and that the survivor can still vault the pallet while its breaking.
The remote hook is strong but not overpowered, just absurdly time saving.
But as people have said, considering what we had in the Bloodmoon event - i've completed gens in 30s - , no problem this event being like this. When i get too stressed or bored from the event i just go to the normal queue since they are very fast anyway.
-
@MrSlatworks said:
The quick level feature they just added seems to be much more generous with event offerings, rather than manual leveling.
Sorry, doesn't seem corret. If you can get a cake with automatic selection you will get it with manual selection, as long as they are the same bloodweb. Or they are not?
-
@PetTheDoggo said:
If they don't, then this might give me a reason for another long break, because the moment I run out of cakes, I am not going to play until next anniversary.
This was the first anniversary i've been playing with a P100 and its miserable farm cakes. Almost 500k BP for a single Cake. Whats the point in all of this?
-
@ImWinston said:
- "Shroud of Separation" is bugged, it just doesn't work, it was reported in the "bug section"
Well, it still will be a issue when they fix it. I think we need to discuss the impact of these changes in the game, even if they are not working right now.
-
Although i understand how frustrating can it be to face someone using Windows of Opportunities since it raise the skill of the survivor by just using this perk, i think its one of the healthiest perk of the game and should not be nerfed.
WoO just exposes how bad some maps are. If someone can drop a pallet and run to another safe pallet, its more and issue of the map than an issue with Windows perk.
-
@MarbleThrone said:
It's not anti-camp. It's anti-facecamp. The feature is there to specifically combat this:
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/TI7YILU3DKCP/ipp1tnsght491.png
Not to eliminate (proxy) camping entirely.
No unironically i miss this, although i understand this was quite unhealthy for the game - and should not come back. It was funny being camped and nodded for no reason. I remember laughing a lot when i got hooked in basement and people fell for the trick of Insidious Bubba. Never seen a Bubba again after these changes.
@OP
As many have said, the system is Anti-Face Camp, made to prevent the killer standing right in front of the hook, to create a window to save. I think that if this system get any increases or changes it might start punishing killers that aren't camping at all. It just need to show the AFC bar to other survivors, because of SoloQ
Basekit Endurance should be changed so you have no collision with the killer while under its effect, so the killer can't bodyblock you to wait the Endurance and you can't bodyblock if the killer decide to go for another person.
AFK Crows was a good step, it just need some tuning. Yesterday a streamer had a 15minute match because survivors refused to do gens, get in chase or anything. They need to tune it to differ someone who is just rating to a survivor who is tactically stealthing.
Go Next NEED to be fixed ASAP. They need to fix the system so someone who is hard tunneled don't get a penalty but make it work so people can't just give up for any reason.
-
I beg you Devs to reconsider and rework the shroud offerings.
I feel that with time we will came back to the same fight of Map Offerings vs Sac Wards, now with Shroud of Separation vs Shroud of Vanishing
Aside from that, great patch!!
-
@ObsidianButterfly said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3933530#Comment_3933530
Bull. The only reason trap killers aren't viable is because every time they come close, people cry and scream about having to utilize more than a single brain cell until they are nerfed into oblivion.
Might as well just delete the entire roster and give Blight 4000 skins that turn him into the other killers at this point.
Unironically, that how i feel about the current design trend sometimes. If its not like Blight or Wesker a huge part of community dislike it. I hope stop for a bit with dash or projectile killers and focus more on killers ideas like The Knight or Twins (even though they are not the community favorites).
Probably the "perfect chapter" community will make will be a dash or a projectile killer with some random interaction to balance the 1v4 pressure the killer receives from surv - probably a Wesker/Blight + Pinhead thing.
-
@MaddieMage said:
So I’m ALL about the go next prevention. But restricting 4 percent changes to only being allowed with perks or luck offerings removes all those times when someone was able to 4 percent when the match was nearly lost and made it so the survivors were able to reset and stage a comeback. This is basically saying once you’re on hook you’re just there and until a teammate can get to you, IF they can, since slugging everyone out is the new meta.
Four man slugging is still a huge issue in this game so now when killers go for full slugs which tends to happen when there’s 1-2 gens left, the chance to 4 percent and make a comeback is gone unless we waste a perk slot.
I don’t mind using perk spots for certain kinds of gameplay but equipping a perk for the “chance” at a 4 percent and not a guaranteed 4 percent is a waste imo. So now everyone has to equip deliverance and hope that they’re not the first person hooked so they can get that save and get value from their perk?
Honestly this was my fear with go next prevention: That is was going to unfairly penalize genuine players just to punish the bad ones. And this does penalize genuine players and takes away their last ditch effort to get an escape and that happens quite a bit in my matches.
Also the mori update is going to penalize survivors who run unbreakable. If the killer can just simply hook and go right back for the instant mori, that takes away their chance for the survivor to use unbreakable/soul guard to pick themselves up while the person on hook is still struggling to buy them time. Whose idea was this? Lots of gamers are running anti slug builds lately to counter the slugging meta that the devs encouraged even more with the finisher mori, and now you guys are making it easier to cancel out any ability to counter a slug and try to make a comeback.
Sorry, but the 4% is a stupid idea from the start. It made sense when the game was more immersive but now its just a RNG chance to screw a match. Imagine a 4% chance of reducing a gen progress by 40% for every kick?
If you really want to jump out of the hook yourself, run Deliverance.
I hope they just chance the "luck offering parts" - maybe rework luck completly - since probably people on SoloQ will run luck offerings to kill themselves on hook if they feel like it.
-
I agree partially. But i do believe that having some extra info (see others perks, basekit kindred, extra info on other survivors when they are in chase or in a specific gen) would make SoloQ better without harming the game balance.