Rickprado
Rickprado
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@Colt45m said:
Watch they buff killers then they're like "fooled you we're going to tunnel, camp and slug anyways." No punishments are the only true ways to punish these busted mechanics. I don't trust them.
Seeing your post feels like someone saying there is a "DBD evil killer mains society" where wicked people join to show how evil they are. Chill dude LUL. People just want to have fun in a videogame.
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@Abbzy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4026239#Comment_4026239
Same for me I dont like tunneling but most times I go for it because I know if I dont do it on last gen left I will end up with one survivor hooked and other 3 will want to pull a save so they get 4 man out which will happen most of times if I dobt get that last hook as far as it could be from both gates or they screw up the save but what can most m1 killers do against 3 survivors going for save not much (this comes from my many hours of experience where I had many matches that I lost only because I didnt went for tunnel or slug when I could).
Unique hooks should have some effect that are worth it and not almost none as now in curent ptb.I had recently a game where i made 6 hook while the gens were up, 2 on each survivor. Then i went to chase the only person without hooks and the gens got finished. Then, the 3 came to save and the last one had Deliverance. Its was a 3 man out - i managed to down at least one of the rescuers. If had went for 6 hooks while the gens were up i probably would got a 3k to a 4k.
Unique hooks really should have some form of incentives otherwise spreading hooks will always feels like a waste of time.
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@dbd900bach said:
The last ptb changes for killer were scrapped because they allegedly held the killers hand too much, meaning it guided the flow the game much too heavily, implying a right way to play. The devs have always leaned heavily on player agency, or at least thats what they say.
I think one of the issues with this ptb and the last ptb is a lack of understanding towards why tunneling exist, and mistaking what they see as player agency which is actually player necessity. Tunneling feels necessary. Killers do not tunnel because they want to tunnel, they tunnel because they want to win. Survivors can be given all the protections in the world, and tunneling will still be one of the most optimal strategies because there isn't an alternative. Killers want an alternative. I don't want to tunnel and I'd like to think everyone else is tired of being pressured into feeling like they have to or they're throwing the game.
Bloodlust isn't even a good reward for the killers its meant to help. Ghostface is one of the weakest killers and he can't even benifit from bloodlust because he's better off going undetectable. I'd prefer the old rewards because it was at least a tangible benefit that was a step towards not needing to tunnel. The survivors can keep their protections to punish tunneling, but killers still need an alternative because killers are punished more for not tunneling than they are for tunneling.
Some people in this community are hard to get a grasp on this: most of the matches people don't tunnel because they CAN they tunnel because they NEED.
Hard tunneling and hard camping are the most effective way to make the game BORING. And aside from people doing winstreaks - which is less than 2% of our community - no one wants to do that. But spreading hooks don't generate enough pressure to stop the gens so killers are quite forced to push a 3v1 scenario as soon as possible. I personally spread a lot of hooks because i like chases but i would be lying if i say i don't lose matches because of this.
Killer should really have a better reward for multiple hooks or else people will regard to tunneling, in any forms its possible.
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Sorry, but this comparison of yours make no sense. No one is asking for a survivor to not heal or do gens. In reality, healing is a natural form of slowdown in this game. There are some complaints about healing speed but i personally complain how anti-healing perks are simply nerfed or forgotten, making anti-heal builds very niche or almost unviable.
"Similarly, if you don't like survivors resetting or otherwise healing up then instead of nerfing healing might I suggest we buff survivors so they have a reason not to heal. Make all actions sufficiently faster while wounded that it's worth an entire health state as basekit. Give them wounded haste. Maybe basekit Dead Hard. That sound fair?"
The equivalent of basekit Pop (or any gen regression) for survivor would be a 20% bonus in healing speed and exhaustion recovery after doing some totems and opening chests. You are doing side objectives for a reward. If you are not tunneling you are playing less optimally for a reward, so you need incentives. But do survivor really need that? I don't think that.
I personally don't think healing speeds are a problem, but gen speed perks and items are. See, the least skilled survivor can bring a gen build a do a gen 20 to 40s faster than a normal gen speed, with little to no counterplay from the killer part.
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@Metagamer said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4025470#Comment_4025470
Survivor comebacks are getting out of a wave of killer pressure where they are downing people very quickly, slugging very quickly and are on the path to winning very very suddenly. A comeback is just a matter of a SINGLE survivor having a chase over 1 minute in length. Yes that's it, a 1 minute chase and everyone should be up off the ground, unhooked, healed and on gens, which started to progress things at a steady pace again for survivor.
It is very difficult as killer to get a snowball rolling and pulling out of it isn't hard, you just have to have 1 person make a single good play or have UB, DS, etc etc.People tend to forget how commiting to a single chase can end the game for killer if things don't go as planned, no matter how early or how late it happens in the match. I've lost and won matches because DS + DH in a clutch moment.
"But its killer fault to commit to extended chases", right? And a killer comeback isn't made on a survivor mistake? If survivors play perfectly the killer stand no chance.
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I really believe that answering someone with the name "dbdiskillersided" won't take us far in this discussion, LOL
@ImperatorHaze said:
I’ve been playing a lot of The Unknown lately, and while I absolutely love his concept and design, his actual gameplay feels extremely underwhelming. He looks terrifying, sounds incredible, and has a unique theme — but his power mechanics make him one of the most inconsistent killers in the game right now.
Core Issues Holding Him Back
1. UVX Projectile Is Unreliable
This is easily the biggest complaint across the board. The projectile bounce hits everything — walls, tiny objects, even invisible map geometry. You can line up a perfect shot and still miss because it clips awkwardly or ricochets in unpredictable ways.
Needing two projectile hits to trigger a health state loss feels punishing when the power itself is already unreliable. Even with practice, UVX feels like you’re fighting the environment more than the survivors.
🔧 Fix idea: Make the projectile hitbox more consistent and reduce sensitivity to minor collisions.
2. Hallucinations Are Too Easy to Counter
Survivors can see Hallucination auras from a generous distance and dispel them almost instantly. This completely undermines The Unknown’s mobility and removes any strategic depth from his teleport mechanic.
Worse, survivors often follow you during chases and clear out Hallucinations as they go — erasing your traversal options and turning you into a basic M1 killer.
🔧 Fix idea: Reduce aura visibility range and increase dispel time or add a skill check.
3. Weakened Status Is Too Easy to Cleanse
The Weakened status should be a core threat in his kit, but it’s far too easy to remove. Survivors just need to look at The Unknown for a couple seconds — even mid-chase — and it’s gone.
It doesn’t create tension or force survivors to change behavior. It just disappears.
🔧 Fix idea: Increase duration or make cleansing riskier (e.g., require longer line-of-sight or proximity).
4. Poor Chase Potential
The Unknown’s kit feels disconnected. His throw is slow, Hallucinations are weak, and teleporting rarely feels rewarding. Compared to other ranged killers, his gameplay loop is sluggish and unrewarding. Downs only happen if survivors make mistakes — not because of pressure and rarely because of skillful play.
🔧 Fix idea: Improve cooldowns, animation flow, and responsiveness to make his chase smoother and more impactful.
Suggested Buffs / QoL Changes
- Improve UVX projectile hit detection and reduce bounce sensitivity.
- Decrease Hallucination aura visibility and increase dispel time.
- Strengthen or rework the Weakened status (longer duration, action penalties, or riskier cleanse).
- Shorten ability cooldowns and improve responsiveness.
The Unknown has one of the coolest designs in the game — but right now, he’s constantly fighting against his own mechanics. He doesn’t reward smart positioning or skillful play the way other killers do. A few targeted buffs and consistency fixes could make him viable without making him oppressive.
Let me know what you think. What changes would make The Unknown feel threatening again?
Well, i'm an Unknown main. Most of us who play him complain of rate the effort/reward ratios is completely against this killer since using your power more punishes you than helps you in some scenarios.
Yeah, UVX need some changes. I think what harms the most Unknown its his cooldown + weakened duration. If the cooldown was shorter and the weakened duration was longer Unknown would be in a much better spot.
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KILLER
Juggernaut (or any other name related to chases)
Basically a M1 class for Wraith, Trapper and Legion
+25% speed on Window Jump, 20% pallet break and 50% reduced pallet stun.
BONEMASTER
After the start of the trial, spawn 2 hexes on the map. While the at least one active hexes are active, gens not being worked on regress at 200% speed.
Two more hexes spawn when 4 gens are done.
One more spawn when 7 gens are done.
You can resurrect any cleansed totem for a 5% heal penalty for every totem ressurected. Survivors can see the aura of the totems in 8m after they've been active for 35s or more.
Whenever a hex totem is broken, you see the aura of every survivor in 24m of that totem.
If there is any normal Hex totem (not resurrected) active when all generators are completed, when a survivor touch the gates switch, the all switches block for 10s give, the killer a loud noise notification and all hexes are destroyed.
SURVIVOR
Hoarder
Spawn 2 extra chest for every hoarder in the match
See the aura of chests in 16m, Unlock chest 50% faster
Can rummage through chest for extra items
Items have one add-on of green rarity at max.
Witch Doctor
You cleanse totem 20% faster and see the aura of totems 8m from you
For every totem you break, gain a stack. For every stack, you cleanse totems 5% faster and see their aura 2m further.
Breaking totems grants you 5% repair speed and 20% heal speed and you recover from the dying state 30% faster for 75s seconds.
After breaking a totem, you can hide into a locker for 10s to heal a health state. This effects deactivates and only activates again when you break another totem.
After you break two totems or cleansed a single hex totem, see the aura of the killers for 15s.
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In a 1v1 scenario, yes, the Sprint Burst on demand is very strong. But if we consider the 2v8 scenario, Escapist is the worst class for survivor. I really would rather go against 4 Escapist than 4 Medics or 4 Scouts.
But yeah, depending on the killer you are playing it feels so bad to lose a down or a hit because of the Sprint Burst
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@Leon_van_Straken said:
Expierience on both sides with the end game chat.
You win as the killer and you get 2 outcomes:
- Slurs
- All leave instant after abbandon
You lose as Killer:
- Slurs
- GG ez Baby Killer
You win as Survivor:
- Slurs
- Instant abbandon because the Killer don´t want slurs
You lose as Survivor:
- just que up for the next game
- Write your slurs before the game is over and que up for the next game
Couldn't write a better synthesis of what postgame chat is 🤣
I really wonder why i left the chat open sometimes. There is almost nothing constructive about the system.
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@cogsturning said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4025449#Comment_4025449
First, you don't have to do much outplaying to land a hit. You could easily bloodlust your way to a single hit.
It's lazy because that one hit could potentially destroy a whole build. I'm guilty of this as a Lightborn user, but that only ruins one potential item/build (and I'd also be fine with that perk receiving an adjustment). If you had a survivor team who has two healing builds revolving around medkits, a gen build revolving around a toolbox, and a saving build revolving around a flashlight, you could derail the whole team's playstyles just from landing a total of four hits. Yet we have no survivor perk that reduces the usefulness of killer add-ons or perks because you hit them with a pallet once or something.
Old Franklin's didn't bother me much as survivor because I run BtL and could just refill mine and other players' items, but the change was the right one regardless of why it happened. The perk now needs to work with other perks to be useful. It can still be very powerful, you just have to be more committed to the bit.
I don't agree. Its primary effect only happens if you hit with a basic attack, which is most used attack of the weaker killers (with some exceptions like the Spirit). As someone said, if you are bloodlusting you are losing the chase and even if you do, sometimes you are forced to break the pallet or you will be there for eternity.
Also, if we are nerfing something because it can ruin a whole build, we should nerf many survivors perks and items, since they can counter completely some killers and perks. For example, if someone brings We Gonna Live forever against a Twins or an Oni they are going to counter the slug pressure these killers can make; Iron Will against Spirit and the Knight; Urban Evasion against Hag, and the list goes on.
Franklin's handicaped how powerfull items could be, specially Medkits and Flashlights. Current iteration of Franklin's have almost no use since its just a minimal annoyance for survivors. The item don't lose charges so you can comeback anytime to get it back, specially when the killer is not around. And camp an items doesn't seem the smartest choice for me.
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@Cvz said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4025160#Comment_4025160
You dont need to be that disrespectful. The only thing that I'm going to answer is that you dont even know the meaning of exploit
Since the 9.2.0 people on this forums have become so aggressive and disrespectful that i really makes me consider if its any worth to spend time here. I'm sorry you read that.
Anyway, i'm happy that many of us agree on killer incentives. I really like to commit to chases and spread hooks but this has become more and more hard as the time goes on. I have many "losses" with 8 or 9 hooks and 3 escapes because i'm going for chases instead of taking someone out of the game as early out of the game as possible.
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@Colt45m said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4025133#Comment_4025133
Thats like me saying if you can't stop gen rushing skill issue. No the counter to slugging, camping and tunneling is for BHVR to make a comm system for survivors and for survivors to do call outs. Not discord either and for everyone. Scrap all these updates and put that in and it will be prevented.
PARTIALLY, gen rush is a skill issue. If you can't get downs, you can't stop gens. As i've said, PARTIALLY. But if survivors bring toolboxes and gen perks you really can't keep up with the gen speeds. Which the only counter was… tunneling and slugging. LOL
Aside from a good Blight or a Nurse, most of the killers struggle to get a full slug by themselves. They can only slug a full team if the survivors missplay. Even with Comms you can get slugged if all survivors don't play well. As i will be adamant on this: Slugging, Tunneling and camping has already counterplay in the game but i requires proper skill and game knowledge that a large part of the player base doesn't have, specially on SoloQ. That's why these strat are so strong. You can see that when survivor are doing winstreak all of these strats backfire against the killer, not because they have comms only but because they know how to play around their strengths to punish the killer for doing that. -
@Colt45m said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4024908#Comment_4024908
So you're saying swf teams in high MMR are bad? Because slugging 4k them all the time. Try again.
If they can't comeback from a simple slug its a skill issue. There are many ways to counter slug: go to stronger loops, heal, spread on the map, force lockers. If we account perks, slugging is even weaker.
So yeah, partially skill issue.
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@Colt45m said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4024906#Comment_4024906
Are you kidding me? Just today I faced a person with the name getsluggedlol. Take a wild guess what happened…Do you even play the game? Sorry but BHVR should not reward killers and make things worse. Even if you guys got basekit pop, grim embrace and corrupt you'd tunnel camp and slug anyways AND the game would be worse because you'd have those perks basekit. No no punishing the behavior is the way to go. The first update that was scrapped was fine.
I do play the game as both sides and i don't suffer that much with slug because i have basic notions LOL Git gut. Just Kidding.
But for real, are you not reading any of the discussion in this forums? People saying why they tunnel? Did you ever play killer at higher than beginner MMR? Did you ever see how the killer meta is stale and not fun due to how fast gen goes if you don't get a snowball at the start?
Rewarding killers for spreading hooks is the best way to deincentivize tunnel. People don't tunnel because they are evil, they do because they want to win. If the game gives a chance to spread hooks and still have a chance at the game, most of the killer players will try that, because tunneling is unfun.
You really need to learn to play both sides and see the state of the game balance. Don't take your personal frustrations in the game discussion, please.
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@Colt45m said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4024597#Comment_4024597
They are exploits because there's no good counter to them. They can turn a survivor win into a 4k.
Only if the whole survivor team is bad, LOL
If you know any macroplay on surv all of these strats become risky for the killer, because they can lose gens or not garantee a single extra stage if these strats are applied wrong.
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@Colt45m said:
This update is supposed to be about reducing camping, tunneling and slugging. Why should killers be rewarded further when theyre probably going to still do it anyways? You think bigger rewards for unique hooks will stop them? No. As long as tunneling, slugging and camping are meta people will exploit it.
Because the best way to prevent tunneling, slugging and camping is to increase the rewards for unique hooks, not to punish these strategies. Believe or not, people don't tunnel, camp and slug because they want to spoil other peoples fun but because its the safest way to not have a miserable match as killer in some situations.
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Well, since the pallet update every low or average killer i go against quits or just kills one person in the endgame.
I believe we still will see the total domination of S tiers soon if the game stays the way it is.
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@crogers271 said:
we see every patch new perks to make healing even more fast than before?So new healing perks, by themselves, really don't change the balance that much. Because of how the healing math works running a bunch of them has declining returns and severely eats into what else the survivor can do. Conceptually whether there are four healing perks or twenty, it doesn't have too big of an impact on balance (kind of like exhaustion).
Now, can any of those individual perks be unbalanced? Sure, and some of the decisions BHVR has made on buffs/nerfs have surprised me, but quantity of perks is not a huge factor in that.
It would be true if they didn't stacked. You can stack Botany + Desperate measures and have a wooping 70% faster heal speed at all times; You can combine We'll make and Botany and have a 150% speed; Do no Harm and We'll Make it and heal someone under 8 seconds. I'm against this? No. It think we should incentivise builds that are not based on exhaustion and gen speeds. But i think killers should also have plenty of tools to hinder, reduce or even block healing at all. Its a much more fun way to slowdown the game than using gen slowdown perks.
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@supersonic853 said:
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/UPXOX9A4P8Z1/1000012480.gif
(Sorry couldnt miss this chance) but you are exactly right. They did nerf these things (like leverage recently for whatever reason) and proceed to omega buff a bunch of survivor healing perks. Like recently with them trying breakdown. For what reason? Not really sure. They said healing is one of the natural slowdown of the game and just proceed to make it light speed (literally wicked and resurgence on the ptb is instant lol)
I wouldn't mind having strong healing perks if anti-healing perks were stronger. But the issue is the ways killers have to prevent heals are less and less effective and survivor have stronger and faster heals every day.
Another issue is perks that aren't really related to healing but affect healing, like Franklin's Demise. It would be one of the best anti-healing perks because of how strong it was against medkits but the devs nerfed it for no reason. Also, the Vigil meta is killing the mangled and hemorrage effects, since they last 66% less time, making them effectively worthless.
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Well, there is some stuff to point it out:
- As you've noticed, the first chase is game defining: if it takes too long it might be too late for a killer to comeback; if its too short the killer might as well start a snowball that survivors will have a hard time undoing.
- Toolboxes are broken. A lobby with 4 bad survivor with good toolboxes is harder to win against 4 good survivors with some flashlights and medkits. I've been seen these more and more and i hope something will be done soon, since its neither fun for survivor and specially for killers since its just rush the game for free.
This game is balanced around people not being too optimal in their strats. Luckily, its just a small percentage of the playerbase is focused on this. Otherwise this game would be hell, LOL
I will leave the Hens video here on how fast you can end a match in a focused team.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fN_ZUUNTzic -
I completely agree with you. I would also suggest adding community created guides to these forums: one for every killer to discuss how to play with them and other how play against that same killer. For example, we would have a topic on how to play Vecna discussing how to use his powers effectively and another to discuss how to counter his power, at least the least common counters (crouch against skull, greed or pre-drop against mage hand, be aware of your position if he uses fly etc etc).
After some time, a condensed guide on how to play as and against that killer could be made by one of the forum members, voted and pinned, and then we would have a very good official source of information for newer players.
Also, guides for general survivor and killer gameplay, like how loops should be run, how to mindgame, how to coordinate with your teammates without communication, when to drop chase and who to chase, etc etc.
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@tes said:
Just fix the game. Technically. Before doing any balance changes… that’s the only I ask for
Fix client dependency
Fix servers
Fix matchmaking
Fix bugs in killers abilities
Fix rgn on maps
Adjust collision and hitboxes
The games gonna feel way better just fixing what we already have :c
To be honest, a patch just fixing these things would be awesome. But Bhvr been tying but they couldn't do that, or at least, not as much as the game needs.
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@Pulsar said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4023398#Comment_4023398
That's not really true.
Visual TR was QoL but was a balance change.
Visual TR was made to people with some hearing impairment to have a better grasp onto the killer position based on Terror Radious. Everyone uses because accessibility is good for everyone. Most of the playerbase could hear and react to killer's TR before this change, so it didn't changed balance.
Scratch marks changes isn't a balance change, since you already could track survivors with scratch marks. Now its just being changed to adjust setting and make it more comfortable for the eyes.
Quality of Life means the game is smoother, feels better without changing how hard it is to play. A balance change affects directly the difficult of the game. A balance change can bring quality of life but a Quality of life change shouldn't affect balance.
We need to stop calling balance changes QoL because it brings so much confusion and mislead the discussion.
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@Heliosse said:
I understand the frustration of losing a perk and i also know it's the wrong time to post this because everyone is on edge, it's new, it's bad, it's apocalypse time
But the new effect is not bad, it's very strong.
8m is 1 second of reaction time for a TR.
Furtive means you halve your TR after 5 obsession hook.
So you can have a Blight, running around with a 20m TR ... Which means you have like 2.5 seconds to react to his 9.2 m/s rush ... Without including human reaction time and the fact most people ignore the first layer ...
Pyramid Head, the killer known to be hyper dangerous up close, the killer known to be pre runned to hell, can walk around with a 16m TR ...
If they revert this perk, and im sure they will (sadly), i hope they bring back something like that in the future, because it is super interesting.
Otz sayed "It's like before so back to being bad" but he is wrong. Past Furtive was bad because it activated while in chase. The new effect is permanent.
You could argue 5 obsession hook is a lot and it is, it's like a "stealth devour hope" kind of deal. But it is by no means weak.
IMO, i prefer this new effect that sounds incredible over a perk that is usefull on rush killers or teleport killers because they can actually use the 18s to get somewhere. They need to bring back this effect sometime in the future, it's super interesting.
Currently, we only have Monitor to mess with the TR that way, it would be really cool to get this effect in the game somehow.
Best thing would be to had this as a new perk (either in a chapter or as a new basic) and keep Furtive so everyone is happy.
It would be a shame to get this cancelled and never brought back again.
TBH, it would be good only on high tier killers like Billy, Blight, Ghoul and Krasue. But again, these killer already have so much things going for them that i don't know if any of this is needed.
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@Blueberry said:
First the m1's lose Sloppy, then STBFL, then Monitor, now Furtive. Idk why we keep killing perks for m1 killers. We really just want everyone to stack 4 slow downs.
They won't stop until every single killer player is a Blight, Nurse or Spirit main.
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Poor bait
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@Pulsar said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4022924#Comment_4022924
Both.
Sometimes, friends make it harder 😂
Really 😂
I love my friends but i wish i could have some friendship with the god tier randoms of SoloQ. Some survivors run killer for so long. I admire that.
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@Pulsar said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4022889#Comment_4022889
We do know that DC's affect BHVR's stats. Any match with a DC is instantly discarded, which certainly drives down KR's. We don't know about Abandon, but it seems like it'd be pretty easy to say, "Hey, yeah, we don't use Abandon for our stats" or "Yeah, Abandon is counted as a Kill." They didn't though.
Killer, besides the asinine change to pallets recently (that didn't really fix deadzones) feels exceptionally easy. There's legitimately almost zero challenge left in the role, besides artificial difficulty like no perks or random perks, etc etc. On the rare occasion I did get a good match, it'd be one in like, forty.
On the Survivor side, it's ass. As for the popularity, it will drop off fast. We've had two popular Survivors back-to-back, that's boosting the player counts, plus Krasue being absurdly broken has brought a lot of Killers back around as well.
You mean SoloQ or considering with friends too? Because i play with friends and with exception when they are trolling there is not much difficulty. Now SoloQ can be quite hard, but for the wrong reasons: many survivors don't killers counters or they just play bad, for real.
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@crogers271 said:
I really wish we had never gotten 9.2 PTB to see some bolder ideas or waited so many months into the quality of life to kind of get the obvious thing.
As some others have mentioned, also worried about what we'll actually have at the end of the PTB.
Going through the ideas
Tunneling - its an improvement, the unhooked should have more advantages. How much of a difference will it it make? We'll see.
Slugging - whatever, its going to be inconsequential the vast majority of the time. I'm worried soloq survivors will actually buy into the 'just leave them on the ground, they'll get up', not realizing the impact of a survivor being out of the match for so long.
Camping - we'll need to see it in action. Could be an improvement, could be much worse.
About slugging: You can bet on this. Probably won't be as common as it would be with the 90s timer but there will be times where people will leave you on the ground while they commit to a gen, specially if they are far. It will be just like basekit BT: randoms won't improve their gameplay because now there is a new mechanic that do their job. I hope i am wrong.
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@tes said:
It’s just a straight buff to survivors and thats all. It’s not fixing actual issues, it’s just an appease to screwed data and attempting to find a balance between emotional sentiments of two sides. And thats why I don’t like any changes related to this theme. People can’t realise that devs will never do their dream of “anti tunnel” with severe punishments real, because they have to consider both sides and format of the game. Even if usually it just making it worse.
I also expect this changes heavily backfire. Welcome more braindead killers with simple mechanics and fast mobility. Cause if u are making game for casuals, u doing it for both sides.
As survivor I barely see Artist, Unknown, Billy, PHead, Oni. But let’s welcome Springtrap (preferably with blood favor and guitar to mindlessly patrol gens), Myers (obv why not, he is so ez now), Ghoul with their simple abilities. And simple mechanics on killers leading to even less resistance on starting level of casual players for survivors. If you don’t need to master killer a lot, you can easily stomp. Because such killers are extremely forgiving as much as new anti tunnel and anti camp changes. Game won’t stop be easy for casual killers and hard for casual survivors, as much as game won’t be less frustrated on advanced killers against advanced survivors who are about to be bored. I mean, if being more honest — I don’t remember when I’ve seen actually advanced Nurse or Blight. As much as survivors want to play ez as possible, as much killers do. They’ll cover it with “at least I do fair play”, but then you look at their actual play style and realise - they don’t need to do anything more because MMR is screwed in this game. They try to show you “hard match” and it’s some screenshot with Spirit and one member in team was a weak link anyway.
I don’t mind this changes go live tbh. I feel they need this medicine. But I don’t expect to see anything healthy for the game anymore. They continue to postpone to fix actual technical issues, and community seems fine with it looking how threads about tunneling get more attention than some technical issues.
Community provides clear hints of what devs should prioritise.
Completely agree with you. I would add more: the game have been pushing the killer role into sweating while adding mechanics - most of them, needed - that don't incentive survivors to improve. Overall this is making everyone experience worse, since it don't improve much for casual but its exploited by experienced players. for every mechanic they add without the incentive for casual players getting better, the game experience gets WORSE.
I'm currently playing a lot of SoloQ and all that you've said is perfectly true. Players really need some incentives to get better or else everyone experience will be dog poop. I've been losing so many winnable matches in SoloQ due to silly mistakes that it really dries my will to play the game if not with 3 other friends. People healing under a hook right in front a Springtrap's door; people who cleanse against plague just because they've touched something infected; people who don't know how to play against a stealth killer, doing gens in middle of nothing while they are injured, and griefing and trolling for no reason. For god, even with the 70s hook timer i've been frequently getting into struggle phase after the first hook.
Most of the time survivor in SoloQ just farm you in front of the killer without too much thinking, because you have basekit BT now and "its protected" It is what is happening in almost every match that i play Solo. Even after i've used my DS. Now imagine what is going to happen when if the killer can't "tunnel" one survivor: probably they will rely on this to be even more reckless to save, throwing in the killer's grip without too much thinking. I could spend days just talking on how many simple mistakes people make that really kill the joy in playing Solo.
If i was less experienced would think its killer fault for "not letting the survivors play" but i know from experience how hard its to capitalize on those situations when going against experienced survivors. Survivor should understand the assymetrical nature of this game and learn how to play around it, not against it.
TL;DR: the devs should focus on ways to incentivize casual players to learn the game and balance the game accordingly, than creating mechanics that do the hard job for them.
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Well, although i understand from where this thought comes from, to BHVR killers like Sadako and Legion are far more problematic than Blight and Nurse. And if BHVR had to balance accordingly to their data, we would probably see C tier killers being nerfed instead of the S tiers (with exception of the Ghoul, probably).
I really dislike the idea of some killers having a rougher map just because of how strong they are since not everyone quite agree on killer strength. I rather that those killer are balanced in a healthy way than just adding pallets to compensate their powers.
Also, we need to remind the game is quite buggy. Imagine playing Ghostface, loading in Wreckers Yard and the having 30+ pallets because the game thinks its a Blight game?
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@Batusalen said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4022477#Comment_4022477
As far as I know, and as you mentioned, what caused the long queue times wasn't the skill ceiling but the literal balance of the game, as the monster was at a total disadvantage, so people just stopped playing that role. That's what led to the game's death, not it being "too competitive".
Monster wasn't at complete disadvantage but it was too hard to get a grasp on it. No one wanted to play monster, and without any new players arriving, the game died.
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@squbax said:
If dbd has been alive for 9 yers it is not because of casuals, casuals come and go, they pmay for two weeks when a nee license chapter is released and then go back to other games. The people dbd thrives of are whales that buy every new skin and are playing this 4+ hours daily. Casuals will buy chapters regardless and that is a big influx of money, however a player that will spend on chapters+skins+the rift is much more valuable to keep than one who will just spend his money every 3 months.
Also, all other asymetrical games went with this approach, and while their issues were varied, bhvr as incompetent as they can be understood something that those other game stufios could not: a game evolves, you cannot keep it casual when all the content around it is optimizing builds, how to dominate as killer/survivor, tierlists, winstreaks, etc ... Bhvr have been very keen on not going full comp because that would kill the game, but they know one of the big reason it is still alive its because their playerbase takes the game more seriously that what they intended for, and they have adapted to it.
TCM, VHS and Last year as many issues as they had, were boring, because there was not a competitive mindset, you pmayed for a week and there was no skill to refine, it got boring fast, and if there was the devs neutered or changed it because the game had to keep being casual.
TBH, VHS had the highest skill ceilling i've seen in an assym game, ever (and i've played many of them). The issues with VHS were that it landed on the other end of the road: its was too much competitive, every match was far more stressfull than any DBD match, specially as monster. And this lead to an absurd imbalance of players, were Teens (survivor) queues reached 40 to 50+ min and almost no new players sticked to the game because they got stomped non-stop by veterans and had almost no real room to learn.
The Tragedy of VHS should really give a lesson to all other assym games.
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@Crowman said:
New players shouldn't expect to pick up the game and immediately be good at it either. It's a multiplayer pvp game. People really need to remember this.
Imagine investing 2000 hours in a game and being beaten by a 100 hours player?
People forget that a big chunk of this game money comes from people who plays it regularly and spent money on skins and newer characters.
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Well, i agree that Bhvr shouldn't balance the game around the top best players - which i mean, comp level - but i heavily disagree they should balance the game around the newer ones either. Balance should reward experienced players in mastery of the game with some resonable comeback chances for both sides.
Balancing around newer players means even more Killers like Ghoul or the live release of Krasue; it handicaps killer like Dredge or Sadako because they are "too strong" against newer players: also means survivor perks like MFT, the first Boon totems and the current Sprint + Vigil meta or busted stuff like Syringes and BNP.
Bhvr should really offer ways to newer players to improve with better tutorials, and a MUCH BETTER MATCHMAKING. Its absurd that a 100 hours player can be matched with a 9k hour killer or vice-versa (considering none of them are smurf accounts, of course).
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@Pulsar said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4022266#Comment_4022266
They nerfed the anti-tunnel changes so fast they never even got a full PTB.
It was a test, LOL. And good chunck of it will be TESTED on the next PTB, with almost no real incentives for killers.
They also didn't implemented Mori Finisher after the PTB; Trickster was heavily nerfed after the PTB in which he was tuned up to 4.6; Alien was nerfed within days after release, even if his counter was already in the game (the fire turrets).
Trying to force the "BHvr is completely killer biased" is quite a non sense.
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@Bustaroo said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4022190#Comment_4022190
Killer: "There's a new thing I don't like, fix it!"
BHVR: "Okay."
Yeah it only took them 6 years to change DH, 2 years to change CoH and 6 months to change MFT. Meanwhile a new killer releases and gets nerfed within a week.
Medkits were the strangest items in this game for years. Toolboxes still exist and Hyperfocus + Stake Out combo still exist and don't requires too much skill to get great value. Vigil counters every status condition in the game and renders some killers power's almost useless.
The survivor meta is far more diverse than killer meta, still locked into antigens.
I don't want survivor experience to be miserable as i play a lot of survivor too but its very annoying to read some many people diminishing the many pain points and issues in the current killer experience as if killer were in a fine situation.
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@Pulsar said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4022196#Comment_4022196
Fog Vials got dumpstered in a week.
Fog Vials were more annoying than strong - aside when used with the Iri Addon. It was one of the dumbest decisions dev made recently, and thats it. They changed Fog Vials faster than they changed pallets density, what is absurd.
Fog vials changes were uncommon, since usually it takes months or even years to change things.
Its not like they are nerfing survivor stuff asap. Its the contrary. Fog Vials were an exception.
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@AmpersandUnderscore said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4022149#Comment_4022149
I'm just going to point out briefly, because I think it's relevant, that the idea of this being a team game is a bit up for debate.
There's always been a big discussion around this game being 1v4 or 1v1v1v1v1. As far as "scoring" goes, there are blood point incentives for altruism.
But as far as MMR goes this is mostly individual Although if I'm not mistaken there is still a team component, so for example if I die and my 3 teammates escape I believe I do lose MMR, but far less than a 4k, and my teammates gain MMR, but less than if we had all 4 escaped.
And just as I have no say on anything the killer does, I also have no say in how my teammates play (even if I'm in a swf). And, to reinforce the point about team vs individual, the build left behind, sole survivor, clairvoyance, and low profile is considered a valid way to play the game.
One other brief point: there is a notable lack of subtlety and nuance in this community in general, but there's a massive difference between telling killers "you can't play this way", which is what I see many people claim, and "BHVR, the meta gameplay you've created is flawed and should be fixed" which is what I see most people actually saying.
People here seem to intentionally take it the first way, but I almost never see people say that. Mainly, people do not want things to change, which is understandable, and (some) people will try to spin it personally for various reasons.
Unfortunately, sometimes that spin also has a direct impact on game balance (the most recent examples being "haste changes" and "anti tunnel ptb" that were pulled almost completely).
Sorry, but the discussion if this game is a "1v4 or 1v1v1v1v1v1" was never a relevant one, at least as far i know. What is discussed is how much a more selfish playstile for survivors is valid in 1v4 game, which i personally think its very counterproductive, because it relies on your teammates playing altruistic while the selfish just play for themselves.
This game was always portrayed as "assymetrical horror", which means its 1 player versus 4 players. The game balance is around that, since you would need to have means to do many things by yourself if you shouldn't rely on other teammates, like unhooking or healing your own, or even picking yourself from the ground if left slugged.
Thus, although everyone is free to play way they want - they've bought the game - survivor was designed with coordination and teamplay as core mechanics - and thus, balanced this way. Otherwise leaving the trials would be impossible since killers are stronger - or should be - in 1v1 scenarios.
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@cogsturning said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4021896#Comment_4021896
I haven't been a member of another forum for awhile but I recall it being normal to not allow tons of posts about the same things. Like no punishment, they just got deleted or locked with a redirect to the other post. It shouldn't be permissible to try to hijack the narrative by spam posting about the same things over and over.
ThIs is done usually when only one person is spamming topics to call attention.
Now, there is a legit movement by players upset by how devs are handling the game and silencing them would be the worst thing in this moment.
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@PetTheDoggo said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4022126#Comment_4022126
If that's the issue in your opinion, then I can say same about squads escaping under 3 minutes. Also not much to there…
Also not like we have never seen high survivor escape streaks. At what number it becomes an issue for you? 100, 500, 1000?
Also, the highest survivor winstreak was done with a handicap: survivors could not repeat perks or use strong items like BNPs and syringes. Imagine if they brought all of the strongest a survivor have?
Looks like the hardest part of a survivor streak is more in adjusting time schedules than any other thing.
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@jesterkind said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4022048#Comment_4022048
We may simply have different definitions of pressure, so to clarify, I consider pressure to be how effectively the killer is exerting control of the pace of the game. Put more simply, pressure is best measured in how many survivors are being forced or encouraged not to work on generators.
The hook, itself, is pressure: one survivor cannot do generators because they're hooked. It also leads to more pressure from someone needing to come save, which means occupying a third in a chase is pretty hefty pressure.
This is also crucial to the macro play, that is the thing you're trying to keep on top of- who is doing generators, where they're doing them, and how much influence you're exerting to get them to stop, that's what the macro of this game is. There's a little bit of keeping track of deadzones and some power-specific stuff in there too, but that's the main thrust of it.
TL;DR for this section: Hooks grant pressure innately, you don't need to wait until after they're unhooked to get the pressure.Tunnelling (chasing someone immediately or shortly after they're unhooked) is circumventing this to try and get an individual in a bad situation while leaving the others to do as they please, which is generators. Most commonly this is just to get someone dead, because that's a winning position for killer, but even bouncing between two is still trying to cash in on easier chases from post-unhooked survivors in exchange for getting to a winning position quicker.
In short, it's trying to avoid managing the 1v4.I agree that killer pressure is hindering or completely stopping survivors from doing their objective → Doing gens and then opening the gates to escape.
Yeah, survivors are under pressure when one of them is hooked but this is something that will happen if go for every single survivor or swap between two or three of them. The thing is: as soon as someone is under risk of taken out of the match - or is taken out of the match for real - the game turns in favor of the killer because killer is stronger - not invencible - in the 1v3 scenario. If no one is under the threat of taken out, survivor can play very greedy
Just taking people out of gens is not enough to win a match, downs and hooks are. If just being present in the map were enough, killers like Sadako or Dredge would be in the top of every tierlist, since they can harass survivors easily, but they lack tools to down them.
As much as some people hate this, tunneling, camping and slugging are the basic tools that every killer have to stop survivors from doing gens. And a good part of killer experience is knowing who to chase and WHEN to chase them.
TL;DR : Managing hook IS the killer macro at is core, since playing optimally revolves around taking someone out of the game as early as possible. Which doesn't mean hard tunneling, since its one of the worst killers strategies.
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Another related thing the devs are not adressing is how hard tunneling usually backfires for the killer: going for only one person is the best way to get a 3 or even a 4 man out, since you need to power through basekit BT, perks, bodyblocks and things like these without affecting the team gen efficiency.
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That why i think we need to differentiate between hard and strategic tunnelling, hard and strategic slugging, hard and strategic camping - i know yoh asked about camping but i believe all of these need to be discussed.
HaHard tunneling = going out of their way to take one person of the game as soon as possible, going after one survivor only.
Strategic tunnelling is when you aim to take someone out of the game by trying to hook the same survivors without spreading the hooks too much, eventually killing someone before everyone has taken 2 hook stages.
BHvr definition of tunneling is very complicated, because you are not always going out of our way to take someone out of the since survivors heavily influence in this too.
Also there is a part of the community that doesn't understand macroplay and believe that if the killer kills someone early they just want to spoil everyone fun.
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@jesterkind said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4021881#Comment_4021881
Hooking multiple people multiple times before a death is the killer macro play, it's spreading your pressure across the whole team to slow down generator repair.
You don't have to two-hook everyone before the first death, obviously, but focusing down one player is explicitly trying to circumvent the macro play for killer.
I don't agree. If you spread your hooks too much you will lose all of your pressure.
Let me give you an example: if you hook 4 times, each time one different survivor, everyone will be on the first hook. This mean that they have at least one extra hook to play aggressively or even reckless without worrying too much. Even if you get someone out of position and they fall down, the survivor team can probably recover from that because they will still be in 4.
Now, if with 4 hooks you hooked 2 person twice, now you will have 2 people on death hook. This mean that probably won't go for risk saves, try to greed gens or do anything that exposes them too much. NOW YOU HAVE PRESSURE because survivors are under the threat of losing one member if the killer finds the wrong person in the wrong moment.
With all of this said, hard tunneling - focusing on one person only - can be the worst decision a killer can make: you will need to power through perks, basekit DS and you won't affect survivors gen efficiency since the most easy counter to tunneling is doing gens. I've never said you need to focus on one person but you need to know to not spread your hooks on everyone on the team.
Knowing how much you need to spread hooks is part of a killer learning on how to play optimally against strong teams.
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@Abbzy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4021971#Comment_4021971
Hard to explain form people that didnt played hard match where realy one m1 hit ot two or hatchets,uvx,nemesis whip can cost you a lot and drasticaly change the outcome of the whole match.
Yesterday I had match with mayers on larrys and team was good, they were nicely aware of my position so stalker mode wasnt that usefull as I expected but the match was just 2k and all because they managed to get one flashlight safe on girl that wasnt dead but if I hooked her pain res would kick in and my 18 seconds of time plus another chase while other survivor was dead on hook and i knew where she was would give me highly 3k, so even one sabbo or save, missing kilers power or m1 attack can change the outcome of the game but hard to explain this to fully dedicated survivor mains that didnt get into these situations.
Its like you got one kill and now they are near opened gate and all you have is one shot or dash that must hit or you wont get another kill thats how sometimes just one miss or dennyed hook stage can be so important in decinding the outcome of the match.
Yeah, i agree. Although survivor has its own challenges, playing killer has so many "make or break" moments that quite makes the killer experience fun and stressful at the same time.
Probably everyone who plays killer in high level can remember a match when a Dead Hard in the right time cost the whole game; or a sabo or a pallet stun. Killer is quite merciless against more experienced survivors and some can understand that.
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@coolgue1 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4021073#Comment_4021073
if that were true how come if a killer makes a mistake it legit a light slap on the wrist if killer misses am m1 they have like 0 cooldown
Killer loses distance and momentum if they miss a hit. Sometimes missing a hit can turn the tide of a match, specially if the survivor get to a stronger loop with the distance gained with the wiff.
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@Bustaroo said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4021691#Comment_4021691
What other strategies are there, genius ? Cause you´re not left with much when you "discourage" everything the killer has.
People on this forums want killer to brainless commit chases until the match is lost or they hooked everyone twice before they start killing.
Really, people tend to ignore macroplay and want to killers do it too.
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When I've heard about handholding I've thought they were talking about anti-tunnel systems and how they were overturned. It was surprising, hilarious and a disappointment that they were referring to killer unique hook bonuses.
Really, they've been implementing systems left and left to make more casual survivors catch up with the more experienced ones but the "hand holding" is whe killers request a bigger incentive to not tunnel.
Looks like the devs want really to have a spli in gameplay: survivor can play more casually and killers should play more sweat/aggressively.
It would be fun if it was not tragic.
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They've softed killswitched the Skull Merchant to do a rework and then they are just asking if numerical changes are enough. Really disappointing.