Reinami
Reinami
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- Reinami
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@Pulsar said:
Once again, hide Prestiges or people will keep dodging.
If they hide prestiges then there is literally no point to prestige. With the new profile changes they are doing what is next? Start hiding profile customizations because someone might have gotten one from being really good in chase? So we start hiding those too?
Beyond prestige 9 you as a player get nothing. So what is the point in earning prestige 100 if you can't show it off.
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@MikaelaWantsYourBoon said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3583957#Comment_3583957
If we are gonna remove all decent loops and make them mind-gameable all top tier killers will get good nerfs for make them balanced because even now, with these strong loops they are doing so fine.
And ofcourse, Bloodlust exists as well. If we are gonna make it whoever played better type loops, then this mechanic need to go as well. Survivor should not be punished when killer lost all mind-games and played poorly.
I mean, yeah. Why not do both? That would make the game more interesting and skillful for both sides.
Every pallet/structure should be mindgameable by every killer, and also deadzones and "wasted resources" should not be possible (perhaps pallets respawn?) you get my point.
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@UnusedAccount said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3584009#Comment_3584009
Is Hit-an-Run really a problematic play style now? I thought Survivors hating tunneling and not they don't want that anymore?
The sooner you realize that survivors hate it when killers do anything, and that no matter what you do they will be mad at you the better off you'll be.
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@AddanDeith said:
there are people who say windows of opportunity doesn't need a nerf and it's fine
but then say ultimate weapon needs a nerf because they can't play when something counters their aura reading
and there are people repeating that blindness is the most useless debuff in the game doing literally nothing
For context. I'm a killer main. Multiple things can be true at the same time.
1. Windows of Opportunity is not overpowered and should be left alone.
2. Ultimate weapon is not overpowered and lethal/bbq are far better tracking perks unlike UW which has a massive cool down of 1 minute between uses (30 second cool down timer doesn't tick down until after the duration is over)
3. Blindness as a status effect is useless in high level competitive play
4. Blindness is problematic because it significantly hurts solo queue players while not doing anything to SWF and should be reworked to a mechanic that can hurt them both as equally as possible.
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@ratcoffee said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3576054#Comment_3576054
The people arguing the changes make it stronger are killer-exclusive players who either:
1) are really bad at guaging survivor perk power level, or
2) want any remotely useful survivor perk nerfed; failing to realize that if survivor perks are universally useless killer must by necessity receive massive basekit nerfs to compensate
Its situationally stronger in the hands of skilled players and is hella good at anti-tunnel. For example, imagine a build like:
OTR + DS + MFT + DH.
You get hooked, you get OTR, killer tunnels you, you now have MFT. You run the killer around, get downed before DS runs out, get picked up, and DS the killer, this resets deep wound. You now run the killer, just before they hit you, you dead hard, get a speed boost, now you have MFT. Then run the killer and finally get downed. Basically, when used as anti-tunnel it can be very good.
Now, is this going to happen often? No, probably not. Does this mean overall its a better perk? No of course not, it is much more situational now, and probably requires it be paired with another endurance perk (probably dead hard in most cases). But in the situations where it does work now, it is stronger than before. But you'll get to use it less often, if that makes sense. So yes, the perk will be "nerfed" and weaker than before, but it has the potential to be stronger than before in some situations.
Is its usage going to down? Absolutely, most survivors favor perks that aren't situational and are "just there" this is why you see so many perks like Sprint burst, windows, kindred etc. because the perks just work without any real input from you making it easier. But this doesn't mean those perks are the best. Deliverance i'd argue is the best perk in the game when used with a team of survivors that can communicate and coordinate together.
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@DrDucky said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3573721#Comment_3573721
The devs gave you their answer, they do not want people who accidentally let go to be banned, there is no way you can tell for sure that they did or did not. It is unfeasible.
Everything i mentioned is exactly how one would make it feasible. So no, they did not give an answer.
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@Boons123 said:
Let's go back to 2016, where the game was at its beginning , when was the game was intended to be a game of hide and seek and not a competitive game focused on chasing
At that time the killer literally had no chance of winning the match
The survivors were invincible and the killer was the victim and hostage in the game
-At that time the maps were very large
-There were god pallets everywhere
-One structure contained two windows and two pallets
-Generators can be repaired in 65 seconds without using perk, item, or the help of another survivor
-The healing was only 12 seconds, not 16 seconds
-The survivors could quickly vault the windows from any angle, and the middle vault did not exist at that time
-The killer needed 2.5 seconds to vault a window and 3 seconds to break the pallets
-The survivor could stun the killer even if he was a little far away or behind a wall
-The killer can't kick the generators
-Survivors were able to repair the generator in one second using a "brand new part."
-Survivors were able to blind the killer in 0.1 seconds, there was an add-Ons that allows you to blind the killer faster
-Survivors were able to heal a dying survivor back to health in 0.1 seconds using just one add-on.
-There was no end game, they would open the gates and then bully the killer, and at that time you could repair all 7 generators even after opening the exit gates.
-The killer was not acquiring bloodlust effect
-Sprint Burst had a 20-second cooldown and could be used during a chase because the cooldown did not stop while running.
-There was a main building with 4 open windows on one wall
-Players could lower or raise the map lighting using offerings
There are many more
So be thankful that the killer now has a chance to catch the survivor at this time
I found this video of players who decided to play the game in its first version , They don't speak English, but that would explain how unplayable the game was
Go to minute 1.24 to skip the intro
Its a matter of skill. If i had all of my killer knowledge today back in 2016? I'd be number 1 easily because survivors generally didn't exploit that stuff to a big extent.
While the game has gotten more balanced since then, survivors have also gotten better, so they are still able to exploit things to their fullest potential more effectively than they were 7 years ago.
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@GroßusSchmiedus said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3575485#Comment_3575485
Exactly, i will camp and tunnel with it on the PTB to see how bad it is. If only PTB stood for public test build...
Seriously, can you start reading posts before you go out of your way to be condescending? It just makes you look stupid.
My point was, no need to complain about something you haven't even tested yet. Its rare for things to go on PTB and not get changed.
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@GroßusSchmiedus said:
No its correct, 6 blades to charge, less with add-ons, i believe it could turn really bad cause there won't be stopping him from tunneling since he will easily eat through any healthstates of anyone trying to stop him and keep up more easily with 115%. We will have to see.
I will definitely camp and tunnel a few games with the Waiting for you Watch and Fizz Spin Soda/Tequila Moonrock combination just to see how bad it is.
Its almost like PTB exists for a reason and to test these changes before they go live.
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@DBD78 said:
Since they said Twins would be reworked how many other killers have gotten changes and updates instead? I would guess that the low pick rate is the reason they keep stalling this?
Twins rework or Pyramid Head addon pass. What comes first? Take a guess and I update this thread when we have an answer.
Trickster is realistically just some numbers tweaks and addon changes
- going from 4.4 to 4.6
- Increasing knife throwing speed
- Removing recoil (set the recoil value to 0)
- main event duration
- main event knives required
All of these are just numbers tweaks that can be done in a few minutes realistically. The Addon changes are mostly also number changes, minus a few new/reworked addons.
Twins is likely going to be getting an entire rework like from old freddy to new freddy. There's basically like a few stages of reworks:
- Number tweaks (I.E., this or trapper or sadako)
- Medium rework (I.E. Doctor whose power mostly stayed the same, or hillbilly who just added the overheat mechanic)
- Complete rework (I.E. freddy whose power was completely changed)
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@CatnipLove said:
The default controls on console are hideous. On a gen, you are holding down circle, whilst pressing R1 for skill checks, whilst trying to look around with the right stick. How is that remotely optimal? Does the playtesting team consist of squid-human hybrids? How does anyone play like that? You'd need two thumbs on your right hand to utitlise that control scheme effectively.
This game didn't become playable for me till I had remapped almost every single button.
Must depend on console then? I have played the game on steam deck before which has the triggers mapping to most things, and steam deck controller is basically an xbox controller anyway.
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@pizzavessel15 said:
mft: the nerf is 100% deserved. imo it deserves to die. love what they are going to do to it
trickster: his recoil change and speed change are perfect. the blade change or the main event change is a bit too much tho
Its impossible to say what this will do to trickster without actually playing him. That is what PTBs are for and why everyone is flipping their ######### i dunno, they usually make changes on things from PTB to live anyway.
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@Aven_Fallen said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3575286#Comment_3575286
Man, you must be joking. The next Midchapter will only feature a Survivor. This is what I wrote. Dont twist what I write.
I will ignore you from now on.
Right, and then you continued that statement with "and killers will get some content as well" making an assumption that, when killer only chapters are released, only killers get changes, but when survivor only chapters are released both do, again implying some kind of imbalance of patches and changes there. Again pursuing this "us vs them" mentality.
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@zarr said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3575113#Comment_3575113
Quotation for the game being balanced around 40-second chases?
I really am not a fan of dumbing down the game that much. It ignores a world of gameplay. The game can end in an instant without even involving much actual chaseplay. There are countless matches every day where chases last more than 40 seconds, and killers still end up killing everyone. It is asinine to try and "balance killers for 40-second chases", let alone balance the game around that. Not that I actually think it is even possible to achieve that with any reliability, no two chases are ever the same, I didn't literally mean Trickster chases may now always last exactly 30s, my point was more so to say skill might play even less of a role than it doesn't already now, with Trickster chases.
What I was doing does not really constitute complaining. I was speaking to possibilities, stating concerns, and did point out myself that this will have to be seen in action. Trickster is already a killer not many people enjoy playing as or against, because the spamming hampers skill expression on both sides. But yes, there are also nerfs here, what with the increased amount of knives to lacerate and the lack of gradually increasing throw rate. Just how strong the new Main Event will be is also hard to gauge without seeing it in action. I just can't see it not be stronger than the current Main Event, which was rare to have an impact (which, granted, was an issue).
Dev said it once in a stream so i don't have a record of it, but it was stated at one point that is the goal which in theory means if every chase lasted 40 seconds on average, you would, on average, get a 2k, 2e. And if you do the math around the objectives and what each survivor is doing at any point in the game, 40 second chases checks out for a draw.
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@Aven_Fallen said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3575169#Comment_3575169
Buffing some of the really terrible Survivor-Perks would be a thing. And also content, because they might be worth using. And I think it would be fair in a Patch where Killers not only get a new character (including 3 Perks), but also receive Buffs for another Killer, have a better time on two Realms AND get a Nerf of a popular Survivor Perk.
But yeah, how can I even think that?
I guess I will come back to you in January when the new Survivor drops in the Midchapter and Killers will get some content as well.
And you just keep going. You are assuming that the next update will be "survivor sided" but "also killers will get things too" again stop with that mentality.
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@KolbyKolbyKolby said:
Personally, if I had the choice I'd buff No Mither so it had 100% noise reduction so that I wouldn't need to pair it with Iron Will every game.
What small buffs would y'all have like to received this chapter?
More us vs them mentality that leads to more toxicity.
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@Aven_Fallen said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3575146#Comment_3575146
Sorry that I would be happy to get some content. :)
You aren't talking about content, you are talking about buffs/nerfs.
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@Aven_Fallen said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3575127#Comment_3575127
Yeah, this echo chamber is big.
But there have not been any patches where only Survivors got something and Killers got nothing. Including Survivor-only DLCs.
you're still doing it. You can't agree and then immediately go back to the "but survivors got this and killers" JUST STOP. Its not productive.
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@Chocolate_Cosmos said:
Developers put out blog talking about future changes coming on test server next week, so we can test them. Everything and very likely something, will be subject to change.
Now imagine how many content creators, people on social media and here on forums start Trickters apocalypse, MFT dead etc when the PTB is a Week away from now to test. Trickster changes are huge and need to be tested yet everyone seems to allready have access to them and played like 10 games with him.
Can you all stop overreacting and wait for that PTB to show up and then you can seriously talk about this. I am tired, maybe I should take like 48h break after each blog post / major update from dbd media until you guys all chill out and it becomes old news.
This type of reaction is exactly why the devs don't tell us anything.
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@Aven_Fallen said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3575105#Comment_3575105
I mean, the "BHVR is survivor-sided"-Argument can be pretty dead after this Patch, which only features stuff for Killer. Not even asking for compensation or anything. Just content.
But I really would have liked to see something for Survivors in this Chapter. Because it is a Killer-only Chapter and there will not even be any content for Survivors (aside from maybe a new Map, but this is for both roles). And considering that there will be no Midchapter in December, Survivors will have to wait for new things until January, when the Midchapter drops with a new Survivor. (And I am pretty sure that this Midchapter does not only include things for Survivors)
Best Survivors can now hope for is a Bugfix that female Vaults are fixed, lol.
Stop with the us vs them mentality, its toxic, unproductive, and doesn't make the game better.
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@ratcoffee said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3575068#Comment_3575068
It's because BHVR are extremely survivor sided, that's why the devs gave survivors a nerf to one of the most used survivor perks and several of the most survivor sided maps without any compensation 😭
This isn't an us vs them mentality. We shouldn't "buff survivors" to compensate for them nerfing a map that is CLEARLY survivor sided. Stop thinking like this, its toxic, and isn't conducive to making the game actually better.
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@Aven_Fallen said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3575056#Comment_3575056
While this is true, they could have thrown Survivors a Bone in this Patch.
Survivors in this Patch only get Nerfs while Killers only get Buffs (including the Map Changes). AND this is a Killer-only Chapter, so there is not even anything new for Survivors in this Chapter.
I am the last person who would say that both sides should receive Buffs and Nerfs equally, but there is really nothing in this Patch for Survivors aside from Nerfs.
People said the same thing for killers for the last couple of patches. Stop thinking about this as an "us vs them" mentality
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@Nazzzak said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3575051#Comment_3575051
MFT has been out longer than UW. I have no doubt UW is steadily rising to top 3. My last 10 survivor games had UW. I think it's effects are fine but since BHVR are looking at making more activation requirements I'm sure it'll eventually require more than just opening a locker.
Despite the fact that i think UW is a terrible perk (yeah you heard me, terrible) that stands to reason that because of that MFT should be dealt with first right? It took them 6 months to do something about MFT and UW hasn't even been out for 3. So even if it was super OP like people claim, it's still in the same realm as MFT in terms of changes.
In regards to it being bad, Lethal pursuer is the best tracking perk in the game, and combined with BBQ or other aura reading is far far better than UW will ever be. UW already has a MASSIVE cooldown of 60 seconds. You use it, then it stays active for 30 seconds, getting you into a chase, but the 30 second cooldown doesn't start until after the first 30 seconds are up. Meaning you get 1 minute between uses. Whereas lethal gets you into the first chase within 10-15 seconds of the match starting, and BBQ gives you constant reading every time you hook someone, whereas UW requires you to go out of your way to find a locker, and then on top of that isn't guaranteed to be up after a hook, and on top of that screams are significantly worse than plain aura reading.
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@zarr said:
This kills MFT. You cannot control being put into Deep Wound, against most killers you basically never will. DH and OTR only activate after being unhooked, so at most two times per match, so even that leaves MFT way too situational to provide enough value to be worthwhile. Especially considering that the killer might well not chase you through OTR and that DH is far from guaranteed to work out. I'm glad MFT is being changed, but as has happened so often with perk adjustments, it is getting removed completely from the pool of popular perks, instead of adjusting it in a way where it will still be valuable enough to see common use. Reducing the speed boost to 2% and the Endurance duration to 5 seconds would have been one simple way to do that, I think.
I think with this Deep Wound change, MFT should grant a 5% Haste effect. That way it would turn into an actual deterrent to hit survivors right after they have been unhooked, and a tunnelling deterrent if OTR is in play.
Trickster may become even more obnoxiously oppressive in chase. At 4.6m/s, without any recoil and a faster base rate of throwing knives as well as much more consistently available, short bursts of Main Event, I think downing people in 30 seconds will be trivial for any decent player and barely scale with survivor skill. But this remains to be seen in action. As will the map changes. I'm glad some of the visual clutter is supposedly being addressed in Red Forest, and that Garden is finally being nerfed. I hope they won't overdo it however, the Coldwind reworks have left various of its maps/spawns in too rough a place I find. Even more so now that harvesters are in the most useless iteration they've ever been.
You realize the game is balanced around a full chase lasting around 40 seconds making the game a 2k/2e, right? So saying like: "he'll down people in 30 seconds!" is pretty much around where they want to be. Also, you can't complain about changes like this until we get a chance to test them.
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@Ginnypig said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3574920#Comment_3574920
i just dont get it. Its basicly another way to make money. You got skins, ranks, prestiges, charms like how much more do you need to show the world what kind of state your character is in? So pointless
Some people like that kind of thing, generally though i'm with you, i don't even buy skins or anything really, just characters and the rift (which i only ever bought the first rift)
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@Aven_Fallen said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3574892#Comment_3574892
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3574901#Comment_3574901
Sure, but you have to keep in mind that the Double-Nerf for Ruin was mainly so that it is completely removed from the Meta (yes, same happens with MfT) so that the Devs can pat their back and say that they changed the Meta (when in fact, the Meta did not really change, different Perks were used, but the nature of those Perks were the same).
And this was with the goal to change a Meta. So surely they wanted to destroy the Perk (Ruin).
Hence why the perk changes to "Shift the meta" aren't actually going to do anything because the fundamental game has remained the same. Without tons of gen defense, gens go too fast for any killer that isn't nurse to deal with, thus everyone just stacks the best 3-4 gen defense perks and calls it a day. Similarly, on the survivor side, the goal is to rush gens as fast as possible while maximizing the amount of time it takes the killer do things. Thus survivors will generally take 3-4 chase oriented perks or 3-4 perks that allow them to rush gens or a combination of both. Hoping that they can run a killer for the first chase while the other 3 survivors finish up 3 gens and thus the snowball one way or the other begins.
Both sides basically build around snowballing as hard as possible leading to the most matches being relatively boring. The only thing that is going to shake up the meta is to completely change the fundamental game such that these strategies are less effective or handled differently.
I.E. something like, perk classes, where instead of stack 4 gen slowdown perks, for example, you can only take 1. Then rebalance the game around the perks within these classes being relatively balanced with each other. So killers would have say:
- 1 Gen defense perk slot (I.E. corrupt/ruin/pop)
- 1 information perk slot (I.E. lethal/bbq/uw)
- 1 attack based perk slot (I.E. stbfl/coup)
- 1 status effect based perk slot (I.E. pwyf/sloppy)
The problem there is there are many perks that do multiple things so that would need to be changed. But in general this is the type of thing that would actually change the meta. Or maybe like an "uber" 5th perk slot and they make a set of new perks that fundamentally change the game significantly for both sides and each side can take one of these "uber" perks.
I don't actually know honestly, but the point is that in order to actually change the meta, fundamental changes need to happen rather than just individual perk changes.
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@AmpersandUnderscore said:
I give it roughly 3 days, tops, before the forums are back to 'nerf Sprint burst and lithe'.
Anyone who says that is wrong, because both of those perks are fine.
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@CrimsonVoid said:
Guess this is an indirect nerf to Legion kit. But its better for the game balance overall.
I mean, not really, legion already has to deal with MFT anyway.
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@LilyPad said:
Just made an account to come and say this. No thank you to 4% removal.
This sentiment always feels like it was made for the killer's benefit more than the survivor.
It's just like the DC bots which were pretty much only put in to allow the killer to get 4ks and achievements.
@Reinami your Dota 2 analogy doesn't hold up because in Dota 2 as well as other MOBA's you actively get punished for not playing the game correctly.
I've gotten plenty of people punished because they refused to listen to the team or fed hard or what have you.
A pos 5 Warlock taking their 1's creeps and stacking divine rapiers will get punished if reported. Yet the players who cleanse dull totems and hide all game for hatch are fine? This makes no sense.
For some reason DBD is the only game where both the players and the devs actively encourage bad and inefficient survivor gameplay to make up for poor balancing.
Idc what anyone says, totem builds, chest builds, locker builds are all trolling, in fact most off-meta perk loadouts and playstyles are actively throwing and need to be balanced. But that takes work BHVR isn't willing to put in at present because they and some members of the community are delusional.
Solo queue is so terrible because these builds and playstyles should be relegated to consenting SWF'S. If you are queueing solo it should be expected that all survivors and the killer play efficiently regardless of mmr bracket. It's not shocking there's a hookcide epidemic.
The Dwight, Meg, and Claudette who queue up for solo queue with the intent to win and work as a team absolutely do not deserve to be forced to stay in the match with the Jake running to every chest in the map with Appraisal before touching a single Gen or taking chase. Yet many people here including the devs would argue the opposite because it's "a party game." Nevermind the fact that things are constantly being watered down and nerfed for the sake of competitive balance. It is folly.
Until camping and proxy camping are dead, until basement gets fixed, until tunneling isn't mindlessly easy, and until survivors are actively encouraged to play as a team and people who never do gens or take aggro are punished, 4% and hookcides are a necessary evil.
If they are to be removed, at the bare minimum I expect BHVR to be more aggressive in clearly stating expectations for survivor players so we can address how many selfish players there are.
Someone can't get banned for "feeding" in DotA unless they do it intentionally and have a repeat pattern of doing it on purpose.
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@Dogma_loki said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3574345#Comment_3574345
Who are you to tell someone else that they shouldn't be playing the game due to a medical issue?
Check your entitlement and ego at the door.
Because if they have a medical condition such that the literally cannot play the game or they experience like a life threatening condition, they probably shouldn't be playing the video game. And, if its only because of that one specific killer, they should DC, take the penalty, and have a bot replace them, not ######### over their team.
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@Pulsar said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3574420#Comment_3574420
I am of the belief that part of the issue with burn-out is that DBD is very uniquely unfun.
In games like CoD, for example, you can get spawncamped. You still have agency, but it may not be pleasant. In DBD, there are certain things either side can do that remove pretty much all agency from you. This, first and foremost, feels absolutely awful to play against. If you start getting it multiple games in a row, you can easily see why it can be extremely frustrating.
Allowing people to DC, would in essence, make them feel like they have some sort of control.
I hate to link content creators into it, but I mostly agree with Scott's take on it.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1xUcEfHuk9I&ab_channel=ScottJund
I disagree with 90% of what scott says at any given moment and i disagreed with his take here.
In terms of that, you are talking about agency, and fundamentally that is the design of DBD. The entire game is designed around the idea that the goal of the killer effectively removes agency from a survivor. That is fundamentally how the game works. So if you don't like that, no amount of "quitting the game because you don't like it" is going to make the game fun for you.
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@Pulsar said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3574371#Comment_3574371
Less people will play the game, which is already, sort of, becoming a problem. The game is doing fine, but there's been little innovation in the last years and people are burnt out. You know what increases burn out? Banning people for 4%'ing or trying to force them to stay in a miserable game.
Can you imagine the damage that would do? "I got banned because I tried to unhook myself" "I got banned for using the wrong perk"
This game already has a reputation issue, that really wouldn't help things.
You're ignoring another aspect, people being burned out from teammates that do this. Or new players quitting because they get matches where this happens.
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@KolbyKolbyKolby said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3574369#Comment_3574369
This just shows that you're taking this way too seriously.
This is a video ganme for entertainment, this is not a contract, this is not a job. There is no "right" to leave matches. The factthat you're allowed to ######### on hook and there's no penalty to it is realistically the only answer to the question. It is permitted within game mechanics and the devs don't currently see a problem with it. Beyond that, any feelings o fill will you bear towards people who want to value their time by not participating in certain matches is your problem, not theirs.
Look at any other online game, they will have the same kind of punishments in place.
Also, that is the point of this thread, to say that this behavior is unacceptable and SHOULD be punished, or removed as a game mechanic. So unless you can actually articulate an argument that explains why it should stay when literally every other multiplayer online game ever has these types of things in place, saying "the game lets you" is part of this discussion, we are saying that it should not let you.
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@Rapteriurz said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3573792#Comment_3573792
Clearly you don't have any idea on how the game is mechanically done and you are spreading nonsence.
Overwatch, CoD, Battlefield, Battlefront and other games that have an ingame system that allows someone in queue to ENTER an active match and REPLACE a disconnected player any moment. That is why these games do NOT have issues in casual/normal gamemodes where someone can freely disconnect with no DC penalty (or the penalty exists but it's not noticeable).
Take any other online game where a team fights against team or other PvP gameplay examples. If you can NOT be replaced by an active actual real life player, this is where the whole banning process begins and EULA takes place.
Every online game will be competitive, because that's the nature of all ONLINE games. Doesn't matter if it's 1v1, 1v10, 5v100, the purpose of a match and main goal is to win by working together, if possible, and it depends on different gamemodes. Some games have competitive queues, some games have casual/fun/trolling gamemodes, custom servers.
Dead by Daylight does NOT have any ranked queues, the whole queueing process is within ONE queue that has both casual and competitive players in it. If you are talking about how the game is not competitive at all, why then having queue timers, hidden MMR, rewards for special ranks, rank resets (I know ranks mean nothing, but they were a thing before the introduction of MMR system). And, as I understand correctly, the game EULA has same rules of how the experience in matches should treated. So players in general should follow the End User Licence Agreement, Ban/Suspencion policy and other documents they agreed to follow upong entering the game their very first time and clicking onto "I agree" button.
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Life is a difficult thing. I get when someone dies once on purpose 5 seconds into the match after being hooked, but I've heard so many "awww, it's bubba, I'm gonna skip this match" or saw enough post match lobby messages where players, who self killed themselves or disconnected literally confirmed in a post match lobby that they've done that ON PURPOSE. That's like claiming that you've commited a crime in front of dozens of people outside of your house.
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Now, there are three examples of this self killing on hook:
1) real life issue happened, yeah, sure, no problem, we all can be in this situation but it doesn't mean your real life issues lead up to 1hour penalty. If your life is so inconsistant then simply don't go into online gaming until you fix your issues or be in a full party that agrees on playing with you on your terms
2) the player is a troll and simply wants to troll and ruin matches on purpose. Sure, but by early selfklling like that at 5 gens only because he/she doesn't like X,Y,Z killer/map/perk questions me about the player choice of playing this game and queueing into an actual match
3) the player really wanted to have 4% of an ingame mechanic to work or have special quests/perks to do so.
In example 1, it's hard to trace the real problem, but a temporary ban with warning like "sorry, you disconnect a lot, please rethink" can be a workaround. Noone is against real life issues, but if you are defending real life and you disconnect due to real life issues like a lot, why would you even go into an online game. Rare situations of real life issues? Sure, no problem. Constant issues? Please do not be here (in game) then and better fix your life.
In example 2, these players do it all the time, their overall stats are so bad, like leaving%, self killing themselves on hook%, how many seconds was the chase overall. Trolling on paper can be seen if you look deeply into someone's stats but we, as players, do not have such possibility.
I example 3, it can be seen like in very rare situations, it's not common, the player can be also new.
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Overall - all the situations can be reviewed by humans in every situation about this whole self killing on hook only if you spend enough time and resources into looking in every situation individually, but since there has been no real punishment for that here, and self killing while hiding behind "the luck" mechanic make the situation even worse where players abuse gameplay to avoid legal punishment. It can change only if developers themselves consider rethinking about this whole concept. Until then - we have to live with it.
The best part about these?
In example 1, if someone is having a real life issue they need to deal with, instead of killing themselves on the hook, which can take a few minutes, delaying them needing to do the real life thing, they should DC. Will they get a penalty? Yeah. But if they are dealing with a real life thing, its probably gonna take them more than a minute to go deal with, so they deal with that thing, come back, and the penalty is gone. If the penalty is so long that they come back and they are still penalized, then they have show a repeated pattern of either leaving games for illegitimate reasons, or that "real life" happens alot. Which, as you mention, if it is happening so much that you are having to quit multiple games a day, you probably need to get your priorities straight and stop playing online games.
Even League of legends points this out in leaver system:
You get an emergency call, your internet drops, your power cuts out… We understand that sometimes life happens and a leave is unavoidable, but the impact on your fellow players remains the same regardless of intention. That's why we start with a warning and gradually ascend through larger penalties. Yes, it's possible for the system to issue a penalty after leaving just a game or two, but it's also possible to re-enter the normal queue after waiting only a few minutes before five games. We believe this minor inconvenience to unintentional leavers is a fair price for discouraging would-be chronic quitters, and we hope you agree and understand.
If you're dropping out mid-game as a result of technical difficulties, try finding a solution on our tech troubleshooting page. If that still doesn't cut it, contact us directly with a ticket and we'll see what we can do to help.
Like, definitely, yeah, it happens, and that's why the penalty starts small. But if you show a REPEAT PATTERN of behavior then you get punished. Because at the end of the day, yes, it happens, but you are STILL screwing over your team.
For example 2. Well, we don't want those types of players in the game to begin with, so they get banned, and everyone's life gets better, win/win.
For example 3 such a system could easily check this by figuring out how new they are. DBD knows how many games you have played, or how many hours you have or what you have unlocked. Personally i think they should do away with the mechanic entirely, but if they are so keen on keeping it, its not that complicated to detect if the player did that, that they are new, and then give them a popup message explaining how what they did was not correct, and guide them to the tutorial to show them how to play the game.
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@KolbyKolbyKolby said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3573642#Comment_3573642
The difference is that if I have an issue with blinds or FOV as a killer I can run Lightborn or Shadowborn. Whether I should have to use aperk to avoid things that make me sick is a different issue is another discussion, but I am able to remedy this in some way. Hell when it comes to light sensitivity, you can choose to dodge lobbies with flashlights altogether at no cost or penalty.
As a survivor, if I get motion sickness from Clown gas, or feel ill from Plague vomit, or develop migraines from the Dredge darkness, I don't have any kind of perk I can run to avoid it. I have to suffer the ill effects from being in the match. The only option is to disconnect (penalized) or kill myself (no penalty). There's a distinct bias towards killers having ways to avoid this that survivors do not. Combine that with the fact that there's 4 players in a match that might have those valid reasons to leave compared to just one and you'll have higher count of it happening.
Short of letting players avoid specific killers or removing the DC penalty, the only solution left is killing yourself on hook.
Thats a BS answer and you know it, again looking at other games. Does someone playing as invoker in dota give you the right to just leave the game because you can't handle all the particle effects? If the game is giving someone such problems that is a fundamental problem with the game itself that:
A) the developers need to address
B) still does not give you the right to leave the game.
If you have a disability such that you can't play against those killers, then what you need to be doing is playing the killer role, where you can avoid those characters, or playing with friends in KYF and setting up games where people aren't allowed to play those killers. Or, simply not playing the game. None of this gives you the right to say "######### you" to your teammates and leave the game. And if it does, you need to toughen up and take the DC penalty, so that your teammates get a bot. Those killers mentioned are rare to see, and if you just DC when you see them and give your team a bot, then you'll rarely ever let your penalty get past the 5 minute mark.
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@Foempticol said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3574287#Comment_3574287
You can NOT force people to play LOL
You literally can, again this has been mentioned MULTIPLE times in this thread
- DotA
- League of Legends
- Counterstrike
- Rainbow Six
- Call of Duty
- Overwatch
- Valorant
All of these games will harshly punish you if you queue up for a game and:
- Quit before it is finished
- Harass your team
- Grief your team
- Intentionally give kills to the enemy team
- And otherwise not actually playing the game.
So for the millionth time, what makes DBD so special that you are allowed to ######### over your teammates because you don't like something? The only explanation anyone has given is "because asymmetrical" without actually explaining WHY asymmetrical games are so special that you still can say "######### you teammates i'm out" and just ragequit/suicide into the enemy. There is no logical explanation anyone can give other than "i should be allowed to be a selfish #########" for that type of behavior.
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@TragicSolitude said:
If I run the killer around for a good while and during that time none of my teammates even touch a gen (yeah, I watch the HUD), then I'm out. What's the point of being the only one participating in a team of four? Now, if the four of us are having fun ignoring gens and going for boldness and altruism together, that's fine, because it's a shared thing, but selfish survivors who let everyone else do the work or only play for hatch are not worth sticking around for. MMR needs to be a bit more intelligent and filter those hide-and-hide-some-more players out so they only get lobbies with each other.
Imagine you queued up in a game of DotA. The enemy team starts grouping up after 10 minutes and starts pushing towers as a team to start taking objectives. Your team completely ignores this and just keeps on farming. 10 more minutes go by, the same thing. You are trying to defend objectives, but your team won't, they keep ignoring it, you keep pleading with them to help. 10 more minutes go by, more of the same. 10 more minutes go by, you are now 40 minutes into the game, your team is ignoring all the objectives and just passively farming and avoiding the enemy while they push into your base. 10 more minutes pass, the enemy is finally in your base and your team is still ignoring them. 5 more minutes pass, and the game ends and you lose.
This kind of thing can happen in DotA as well, and again i mention, a game of DotA even in this scenario can often last for over an hour and yet you still have to stick it out, deal with the team that you were given, and attempt to overcome the enemy team. And, if you don't, if you rage at your team, cuss them out, yell at them, feed (suicide into the enemy team), or otherwise grief your teammates, you will get a harsh ban for doing so.
So again, what makes DBD so special that allows you to ######### over your team and ragequit just because something isn't going your way. Especially when, again, a game of DBD at most is lasting probably 10-15 minutes, and a game of DotA can last well over an hour. Are you saying that you can't deal with 10 minutes of having teammates who are not playing in your preferred way when people in other games have to deal with it for over an hour?
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@Grigerbest said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3574284#Comment_3574284
Have you ever seen people defending this type of behaviour in any other game?=)
No, which is what blows my mind so much.
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@Ayodam said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3574112#Comment_3574112
They could still be left with a 3v1. People could AFK, give themselves to the killer, or sabotage the game in other ways. You can’t force someone to play the game in a way you’d like—period.
Yeah, and you know whats common about those?
- AFKing forces a DC after some time, try it as a killer, just queue up as wraith and do nothing, eventually you'll get DCed if they don't finish the match fast enough. Thus the player gets the penalty for AFKing, and the team gets a bot, assuming the killer doesn't immediately kill the AFK player, which is pretty rare, most killers will ignore the AFK in my experience.
- Sabotaging the game in other ways? What other ways? You mean the ones that are by definition in the report section a bannable offense? You mean like, body blocking survivors? Griefing teammates? Working with the killer? Those are all very bannable offenses. So if someone does those, you report them, they get banned for it and punished. They learn they have to stick it out with the game.
People still have failed to explain to me why other games are able to do this just fine. Why can DotA force people to stay in the match? Can't they just give up? And give themselves to the enemy team? Can't they just grief their teammates? Well no, because all of these behaviors are also strictly and harshly punished as well. So again i ask, what makes DBD so special that you are allowed to ######### over your teammates?
And don't bring in the: "its asymmetrical" part, without succinctly explaining what makes a team based asymmetrical game so special that you are allow to ######### over your teammates just because its asymmetrical?
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@sizzlingmario4 said:
No and eventually they'll probably all be removed, they've already begun getting rid of them not just with BBQ and WGLF but also with Prove Thyself, Sadako's Videotape Copy addon (in which case it was replaced with a reduction to the TV cooldown), and the medkit addons that used to have them.
The only perks that still have BP bonuses are Beast of Prey, Distressing, Thrill of the Hunt, and No One Left Behind.
It's a good thing they're going away tbh, perks and addons should be good for their actual in-game effects, not inflated by a BP bonus and a BP bonus is also just a lazy way to make something more appealing.
Also the exception to this might stay being the "meme" addons that killers have. The ones that make their power worse in some way but give them a bonus BP amount. They like those not for the BP bonus but the fact that objectively the point is to make your match harder. Sort of like adding a "hard mode" as an optional thing if you want it.
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@Pulsar said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3573741#Comment_3573741
Not sure if you've noticed, but DBD isn't some hyper-competitive MOBA.
You just seem so....idk, maybe entitled? Like, you're reporting your teammates or opponents because they do stuff you don't like. You have no idea if they're going for a challenge, if they're physically handicapped or heck, maybe they're just bad. None of those things are bannable and I'm glad they aren't.
It'd be like me reporting my Survivor teammates for going for flashlight saves. It's not optimal and is wasting time, therefore it's throwing and they should be banned.
Your being disingenuous now. Nobody is saying people should be banned for doing "flashlight saves" because it isn't optimal, or that they should be banned for doing challenges.
There is no challenge in DBD that requires you to stand there and do nothing, let the killer hit you twice, down you, hook you, attempt to 4%, fail, and then let yourself die on hook.
And for the longevity of the game, this is important. You keep mentioning new players or "not good/bad" players. How do you think they feel when they sit in queue for a few minutes, get into a match ready to play and have a good time, and then their teammate just immediately hook suicides out of the match in the first 30 seconds? Do you think they are having fun? The 1 player, is ruining the game for the other 4.
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@Pulsar said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3573775#Comment_3573775
Asymm action-horror.
Comparable games currently on the market? TCM. DC penalty? None, you don't even lose XP. I can't, for the life of me, remember if F13 had penalties.
Overwatch, CoD, Battlefield's small modes, Battlefront II, etc etc are all examples of games without DC penalties for their casual queues and they certainly don't punish people for throwing because you can't prove it.
All of those games LITERALLY punish people for throwing all the time in ranked modes.
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@Pulsar said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3573719#Comment_3573719
You know what's crazy, there's not a single game called Dead By Daylight in that list.
Nor is there a single game that's asymm.
What makes an asymmetrical game so special that you are granted the privilege of crapping over your team because you don't like something?
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@Mandy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3573699#Comment_3573699
Can confirm here that this is not what the report form is referring to, hence it's saying that disconnects are not a reportable offence (although I do understand what you mean due to the way it's even on there).
Regardless, survivors dying on the hook is not a bannable offence nor a reportable one.
And you can't prove that someone died intentionally on the hook, that they missed skill checks on purpose or by accident - hardware failure etc. There's no intention of banning for this.
Can you at least understand the frustration?
Like, come on, you and i both know that 99.9% of the time, if someone sees a spirit or something, and then gets downed 10 seconds later, and then tries to 4% several times, fails, then dies 5 seconds later on the second stage before the match has really had a chance to "begin" that the person did it on purpose.
Yeah ok, so sometimes in exceedingly rare situations, that might not be the case and they are new and don't understand what is going on. But, if i see someone with 2k hours doing it? Do you really truly believe they didn't do it on purpose?
There's an MMR system in place too, can't you like, use MMR and past history to determine if it is happening? It isn't hard to see that the person might do it 2 games, then not do it a 3rd and 4th, then do it again a 5th. Like, in those types of things it is obvious the person is doing it on purpose.
And you still haven't answered the question, what is a survivor supposed to do when their teammate does that? It completely ruins the game for the other 3 people in the match. You do realize that right?
I'm not saying ban someone for doing it one time, i'm saying hold players to the same standard that any other multiplayer game does. If they show a repeated pattern of behavior of doing this over and over again, they should be punished for it in some way. If someone has a keyboard failure, they aren't going to immediately hop back into a game 5 seconds later, they are going to go deal with the hardware failure.
And even in the example of a new player, why not make them take the DC penalty, then have a popup that simply explains what happened and how what they did was wrong, and then guide them over to the tutorial to help them learn what went wrong.
I really think this entire problem would be solved, if you just made it so that way a "hook suicide" counts as a DC in regards to the queue penalty. You'd see this problem mostly go away. You simply make it count as a queue penalty, have a simple popup that explains what happened and why they are punished. Then you'd run into the people who would grief and troll instead, but THOSE ARE bannable offenses, so its much easier to see if someone say, intentionally body blocks someone, then it is if they just suck at hitting skill checks.
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@Pulsar said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3573710#Comment_3573710
I'd say punishing people for being bad is more ridiculous.
You can't force people to play. You can't force people to try. What's next? You want to ban people for doing Archives? Maybe you just want to ban all players who run No Mither?
The OP mentioned many games that do it perfectly fine.
- DotA
- LoL
- Counter Strike
- Rainbow Six
- The list goes on
All of these games have matches that can last up to an exceeding even an entire HOUR. And if you grief, suicide (feed), quit the game early etc. they will all PUNISH you for doing so with harsh punishments leading to several day ban, or even in some cases permanent bans for doing so repeatedly.
The thing that these games have in common, is that games can last a full HOUR. So, if i'm playing a match of DotA, and i don't like something, or a teammate, or a character i'm going against, or have on my team, or i didn't get the character i wanted or whatever. I have to stick it out for a full HOUR or i get punished.
The difference with DBD? A match lasts maybe 10-15 minutes tops.
So what you are saying is, DBD players are so special that for some reason, when they don't like something in the game, they can't stick it out for 10 minutes and deal with it and then move onto the next game, but the people who play DotA are somehow able to deal with the same kind of thing for over an hour without any issues?
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@Mandy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3573648#Comment_3573648
this is very true. I've accidentally missed a skill check on the 2nd phase purely due to drinking my coffee and completely forgetting about it :)
The other point to bring up here is, we treat these things as bannable offenses given that they are literally in the description of the report:
Keep in mind that i found these here, on the official DBD support page: https://support.deadbydaylight.com/hc/en-us/articles/4408586278676-How-to-report-a-player
Specifically this section here: What actions will result in a temporary ban: https://support.deadbydaylight.com/hc/en-us/articles/4408581146516-What-actions-will-result-in-a-temporary-ban-
- Insults, intimidation, hateful speech, repeated harassment
- Working with the opposite team to gain an advantage or grief teammates
- Targeting specific users repeatedly in order to ruin their game experience
- Holding the game hostage
- Advertising exploits
- Exploiting bugs, errors in design, or undocumented features to gain access to what otherwise would not be available or to obtain a competitive advantage
- Advertising exploits
- Lag switching
- Disconnects (leaving the match before killed or sacrificed) - DO NOT REPORT
- Botting
Now if we take out the ones unrelated to this such as cheating, or text-based harassment, or related to streamer type stuff, you have this:
- Working with the opposite team to gain an advantage or grief teammates
- Holding the game hostage
- Disconnects (leaving the match before killed or sacrificed) - DO NOT REPORT
I'd argue that intentionally hook suiciding yourself out of the game actually falls under working with the opposite team, and disconnecting (which is already punished)
The killer's objective is to sacrifice the survivors, so if a survivor intentionally gets themselves sacrificed can you explain how that is NOT working with the opposite team? And the point of the disconnect penalty is obviously to discourage people from disconnecting. So why do they have this way that allows them to get out of the game, and also avoid the punishment? It seems ridiculous to me.
The whole point of making working with the opposite team, and griefing teammate a reportable is because you are ruining the game for them. At least if you DC, you get a bot, and the player gets punished by being unable to queue right away, so you aren't left completely stranded. But hook suicides are doing just that, ruining the game for me.
The amount of times that i have played a game as a survivor, where a survivor goes down 10 seconds into the match (probably because they are standing still because they don't like the map/killer/perks/whatever), and then immediately hook suicides. What exactly am i as a survivor supposed to do there? The game is over at that point, there is no coming back from that unless the killer wants to show some mercy and let people escape. And even doing that just drags the match out when really you just want it to end so you can hopefully get into another one that is going to last.
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@Mandy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3573648#Comment_3573648
this is very true. I've accidentally missed a skill check on the 2nd phase purely due to drinking my coffee and completely forgetting about it :)
The difference is, even the system itself can tell the difference between a missed skill check and an ignored skill check. If i miss a skillcheck, i lose some of my timer, if i completely ignore it twice, i just instantly die regardless of the time left. So the system itself knows if you missed the skillcheck or intentionally did it or not.
Personally i think the 4% mechanic should go away entirely, and the struggle phase be reworked into something else because both lead to this problem.
Easier still though, why not just make so if you let yourself die on hook in an obvious intentional way, that you get the same penalty as if you DCed. This would make people stop doing it and screw over their teammates, because they still get the penalty, so if they want out they might as well just DC because they still get the penalty, and they get out sooner and then the team at least gets a bot to replace them.
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@D0NN1ED4RK0 said:
Are we ever gonna get a bonus bloodpoint award for using certain perks again or is it just fully a thing of the past now?
Unlikely that we will see more and they will likely continue to phase some out as time goes on. They removed them because they don't want people to take a perk just for the BP bonus, they want the perk to be good on its own.
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@caipt said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3572960#Comment_3572960
infinitely repeatable concepts are doomed to be infinitely repeated, thanks hollywood
They'd stop repeating it if people stopped watching them.
This is why i don't watch typical hollywood reboots or sequals from 10 years later. This is why i didn't watch the "new" matrix movie. It's why i didn't watch the new "ghostbusters" movies. Any of the million Halloween movies past like the first 1, maybe 2. etc.
At least when they do this with franchises like marvel they are attempting to continue a large story (even if it misses sometimes). Although honestly i fell off of all that after infinity war.
The only time this ever really failed me was blade runner. Blade runner is one of my favorite movies and i refused to watch 2049 for a long time. I didn't decide to watch it until a few months ago and i thought it was amazing.
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@supersonic853 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3572830#Comment_3572830
Its kinda sad because i feel kramer made the story so good. The directors think that to which is why they regretted killing him off so early and wanted to bring him back for X. Id love to see him in this game and have him talk to the survivors in like a narrator type thing. Just can't see him be a killer like the other options we have because of his "code".
Probably a better idea, is not making 10+ movies in a franchise that doesn't have that much story to tell. Saw isn't some epic story like LotR or Star Wars. It should have just stayed 3 movies.